Alright, first of all thanks for the quick response. Yeah, I never considered how valuable deoxys-s is to HO teams. My thought process was that sashed deoxys-a could run Taunt, SR, Psycho Boost, and Knock Off/E-Speed which would allow it to do damage as well as set up hazards. I also never considered sableye-m(I guess that's just my inexperience lol.) But yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from.
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ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)
- Thread starter Nayrz
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Alright, first of all thanks for the quick response. Yeah, I never considered how valuable deoxys-s is to HO teams. My thought process was that sashed deoxys-a could run Taunt, SR, Psycho Boost, and Knock Off/E-Speed which would allow it to do damage as well as set up hazards. I also never considered sableye-m(I guess that's just my inexperience lol.) But yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from.
since hoopa-u is now banned, nomming it for B-; it's has defined niches similar to other mons in B- such as Cloyster and mm2x. It breaks stall fairly well, although like many offensively-based mons it suffers from 4 mss. With its special bulk it can take hits from mm2y, and super effectively hits common mons on bulkier teams such as Lugia, and Gira-O. Mixed sets are especially dangerous, as mons that come in on special attacks may be vulnerable to physical hits the next turn. However Hoopa lacks the power to break past support arceus forms, and is worn down quickly by Toxic/SR; it's physical defensive is also made of paper
and yea prior to the ban I've tested hoopa out on ladder and in roomtours
and yea prior to the ban I've tested hoopa out on ladder and in roomtours
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palkia breaks stall 2 and it can be threatening offensively even with the hydro/spcaiel predicts but it also has a defensive niche unlike hoopa. Palkia is trash but its clearly better than hoopa so it should at least be in c- and probably d cause it sucks huge dix. idk wut the hell u on boi saying hoopa should be in b- rank... if had a defined niche like all b rank mons then it would have been put on the viability rankings a long time ago. Just cause its banned doesnt mean its all of a sudden viable in ubers.
I can see Hoopa-U in C at worst.
Only when Choiced(barring Scarf) in some way are its neutral attacks strong enough to 2HKO threats like Pdon by themselves. Being Choiced also means it's going to be way slower than most of the metagame.
I mean...I guess it could have a Trick Room niche? It's gimmicky to begin with, yet it does benefit Hoopa-U a lot...but certainly not to rise beyond C and it's subranks.
Only when Choiced(barring Scarf) in some way are its neutral attacks strong enough to 2HKO threats like Pdon by themselves. Being Choiced also means it's going to be way slower than most of the metagame.
I mean...I guess it could have a Trick Room niche? It's gimmicky to begin with, yet it does benefit Hoopa-U a lot...but certainly not to rise beyond C and it's subranks.
You know, we are actually allowed to rank Pokemon in OU and below if they are viable in this metagame, so the "now that it's banned from OU" point has nothing to do with Ubers viability itself. If Hoopa were truly B- level, it would have been ranked somewhere already. Yes, it has a positive match-up against stall teams, but so does Mega Lucario, which actually has some use vs other playstyles as well (see bullet punch vs. GeoXern, Close Combat wearing down Primal Groudon enough for a teammate to bust through it). Mega Lucario itself is only a B ranked Pokemon despite being a clearly superior option to Hoopa, so I adamantly refuse to support Hoopa for a position anywhere near that high.
I guess magsyy kind of ninja'd me here, but having used and faced Hoopa before, I cannot even articulate how much I dislike it. If you're bringing it to try to counterstyle alistair stall or something, you'd better guess right.
I guess magsyy kind of ninja'd me here, but having used and faced Hoopa before, I cannot even articulate how much I dislike it. If you're bringing it to try to counterstyle alistair stall or something, you'd better guess right.
Crap Speed, crap physical bulk, vulnerability to every strong physical attacker with neutral STAB ever, zero defensive synergy (wow, a Psychic immunity! I wonder what S rank Pokemon that gets free boosting opportunities against pretty much every team archetype offers me one of those?)... I just don't see how Hoopa can function in such a physically-oriented metagame where it has so many checks. Its sets all have massive shortfalls: Scarf Hoopa is much less offensively potent than Specs Hoopa, but Specs Hoopa is too slow... and so on and so forth. Not to mention how hugely prediction reliant it is, since Focus Blast and Psyshock both have common immunities and Dark Pulse is resisted by quite a few Pokemon.
magsyy's right. Just because Hoopa was banned from OU does not mean it is suddenly viable enough to shoot all the way up to B-. Its viability, or lack thereof, would have (and, in the case of its lack of viability, has been) recognised by this point. C- at best but I'm leaning towards D.
While I'm at it, I want to nominate Fairy Arceus to move up to somewhere around the bottom of B-. I'm fairly confident its current ranking is based on its Defog and Calm Mind sets, which are both crap. My nomination is based off its Stealth Rock set, which destroys both Magic Bouncers and beats common Defoggers such as both Latis and Giratina-Origin with Judgement.
magsyy's right. Just because Hoopa was banned from OU does not mean it is suddenly viable enough to shoot all the way up to B-. Its viability, or lack thereof, would have (and, in the case of its lack of viability, has been) recognised by this point. C- at best but I'm leaning towards D.
While I'm at it, I want to nominate Fairy Arceus to move up to somewhere around the bottom of B-. I'm fairly confident its current ranking is based on its Defog and Calm Mind sets, which are both crap. My nomination is based off its Stealth Rock set, which destroys both Magic Bouncers and beats common Defoggers such as both Latis and Giratina-Origin with Judgement.
For what it's worth, Hoopa-U is probably the best Mewtwo / Mega Mewtwo Y check in existence. Otherwise Darkrai and DarkCeus are just offensively superior overall.
I can't see Hoopa doing anything useful at all. As OU's analysis said, it loses to all faster mons, priority, mandibuzz/Yveltal, and practically anything on offensive teams. Even semi stall can wreck it and stall defeat it. At least Lucario has usable matchups elsewhere. The best set I see is scarf, if only due to the fact it out speeds and deals a bit of chip damage to relevant threats. D rank for me.
Don't see how a mon that is 2HKOed by Mewtwo, is slower than Mewtwo, lacks priority, and lacks reliable recovery can be considered the best Mewtwo check.
Theorymon, myself, and some other users tried to build with Hoopa-U in the few months after its release. Every build I tried to make with it ended up dropping it for some offensive Poke that actually had defensive synergy and could check things. We looked into a Life Orb all out attacker, NP + T Wave, Scarf, and TR. None of these gave the type of utility I wanted in an offensive mon and as a result I was discouraged pretty quickly. "Threatening stall" is not enough of a niche to make something viable as there are Pokemon that can do this in addition to doing A, B, C, D, and E. Until someone is able to prove that Hoopa-U can be justified in its slot on a solid team this thing shouldn't be ranked higher than C-.
Mandibuzz isn't relevant here?
The OP says mons that haven't been approved for an analysis (which Hoopa wasn't) are blacklisted from discussion so I assumed that was why it hadn't been ranked
After reading through these posts B- is overrating Hoopa a bit, around C would be fine imo
Mandibuzz was stated only due to Yveltal's typing matching it, showing it also threatens it significantly. Also, there's humour in "joke mons" checking something you nominated for B- rank.
Do we see no irony in Mr Unbound being so constrictive when team building?
Basically Hoopa wasn't ranked because it didn't have an analysis, because it got rejected for an analysis. However, because it was banned, there has to be an analysis for it because it is now Uber, so it has to be ranked now as well.Dominatio said:
Hoopa has very few redeemable qualities. We're basically talking about a Pokemon is decent at threatening stall and is actually terrible at everything else because it is too slow and physically frail to be effective (and Scarf is too weak). I can see very little reason to use Hoopa, since it almost entirely outclassed- it's not like there are no other Pokemon that can threaten stall.
Hoopa-U sucks lol. Zero defensive synergy outside of sometimes checking Mewtwo, poor Speed (base 80 in a metagame where 90 is the average even on walls blows), and poor bulk means it's not taking many, if any, hits. It certainly has the power and coverage to hurt things but that doesn't mean much when your Speed and bulk is so bad you won't get the chance to attack against any team against stall. There are plenty of things with a good matchup vs Stall in the metagame, no need to use Hoopa-U really. C- at best if only because it does completely wreck standard stall with a NP set which is a little something.
I would like to nominate LANDOGE (Landorus-T) for B+. Choice Scarf Landorus-T is a great pokemon in the current metagame for many reasons:
1) Intimidate is amazing and especially versus HO.
2) Its speed with Choice Scarf, offensive power, and movepool makes it very threatening for any offense.
3) Checks many threats (Primal Groudon and Arceus Normal for example) and revenge kills many others (Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Deo-A for example).
4) U-turn is a great move it learns, keeps momentum versus any playstyle and versus common special attackers including Mewtwo and Darkrai who have no other choice but switch out.
5) It can prevent Defog by using Explosion.
There are many other advantages it has, one can discover by using it. It belongs to B+ nothing less.
1) Intimidate is amazing and especially versus HO.
2) Its speed with Choice Scarf, offensive power, and movepool makes it very threatening for any offense.
3) Checks many threats (Primal Groudon and Arceus Normal for example) and revenge kills many others (Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Deo-A for example).
4) U-turn is a great move it learns, keeps momentum versus any playstyle and versus common special attackers including Mewtwo and Darkrai who have no other choice but switch out.
5) It can prevent Defog by using Explosion.
There are many other advantages it has, one can discover by using it. It belongs to B+ nothing less.
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Shouldn't hoopa-u be at least d now that it is ubers? I thought all ubers pokemon had to be ranked somewhere.
It will be ranked soon enough (d-c- in my opinion), we just haven't decided where it should be yet.
It hammers stall sure, but it needs to either do it better than gengar, or do something else like Bullet Punch Xerneas for over half in Lucario's case. Kyurem-B seems to do a better job than this thing and it isn't even ranked here.
I think that Hoopa-U could actually be worth something in the tier. It probably won't have the qualities to make it past B rank; however, I honestly think that there are no circumstances where Hoopa-U can be dismissed. Deoxys-Attack is seen as a threat because of its great speed and crazy high power offensively, even if it has worse defenses than shedinja (Literally. Shedinja has higher defensive stats than Deoxys-A. Of course it doesn't matter because of HP, but that's just my point of comparison). When I look at Hoopa-U's stats, I see a low speed, but as far as Uber's goes, speed isn't always the secret ingredient for something to work well. Geomancy Xerneas before a boost hits 245 speed usually. CM Primal-Ogre typically runs 84 or 88 speed investment (237 speed). Ho-Oh is quite often run with an Adamant nature, meaning that most of the time it will only reach 279 speed given its spread is in fact max speed. The banded set is the only one that can most practically run a Jolly nature, but I'm skeptical of how often that is used in practice. Support Primal-Don rarely has any speed investment. The other variants of Primal-Don don't typically run more than 56 speed investment. If Hoopa-U is to have any reasonable place in Ubers, it will have to run max speed with a speed nature. I disagree that we can use the, "Oh, it's frail," argument either. If that were the case, why are Deoxys-A, Mega-Gengar, Darkrai, Deoxys-S, Primal-Ogre, and such usable? Darkrai is somewhat frail by Uber's standards. Mega-Gengar has better bulk than it's non-mega form, but there's still a bit left to be desired. Primal-Ogre is great on the special side, but vulnerable on the physical side. Hoopa-U is frail on the physical side, yes. But I don't see any world where base 130 special defense can be considered frail. Hoopa-U will not cause Uber's to change significantly, but it will remain here. I absolutely do not advise underestimating it. Let me be very clear: Hoopa-U is scary. Let's look at some calcs shall we? (note: these calcs are quite extensive. No, seriously. These are EXTREMELY LONG calculations. I apologize for their length, I just honestly wanted to spark some ideas, argument, counter argument, and deeply analyze Hoopa-Unbound.)
Hoopa-U is capable of running choice band, life orb, choice specs, no item (magician), choice scarf (revenge killer), expert belt, plates, and even possibly an assault vest. Additionally, Hoopa-U does not always have to have maximum offensive investment and only needs to outspeed the neutral natured base 90 tier and or standard dragon dance salamence prior to mega evolution. This allows Hoopa-U to invest a little more into bulk, which turns out to have some benefits. Hoopa-U can use lure moves, such as sleep talk for Darkrai. Hoopa-U is extremely difficult to counter and has a way to do huge damage to anything in the metagame, especially with hazard support. It isn't just a mon that beats stall. Hoopa-U is very threatening for bulkier teams as well. Hoopa-U also can be ran on a trick room team as something I'd call a real monster. I know trick room is uncommon in Ubers, but that doesn't mean that a good trick room team can't exist. Hoopa-U is also one of the few pokemon in the tier with a STAB Knock Off, the others being Yveltal and Sableye-Mega. Hoopa-U is pretty versatile as well. I highly advise that we all take a moment to think out the practicality of Hoopa-U in the tier and not just underrate it. Do not underestimate the power of Hoopa-Unbound.
B- Rank or C+ Rank.
I dabbled around with the calc for a bit and came to the conclusion that Hoopa is indeed worthy of multiple sets. Additionally, there was very good evidence to show that Hoopa-U doesn't need to max out its offenses, especially non-scarf choice sets, as the damage between what I calced with and the maximum made very little practical difference offensively for Hoopa-U, meaning that it could invest just a little into its bulk. Let's start with Specs Hoopa-U:
Possible Moveset:
- Psychic/Psyshock/Hyperspace Hole
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot/Thunderbolt/Trick
Both STAB. Foul Play is usable as STAB but less useful than Dark Pulse. Focus Blast is great coverage and self explanatory. Hyperspace Hole is useful against mons that can create subs or use protect, such as Perish Trapper Gengar-Mega. When using Psychic, Thunderbolt is especially useful for hitting Ho-Oh and surprisingly packs just enough power to restrict the number of counters. Grass Knot generally packs a good 120 base power given the great mass throughout the tier. Primal-Ogre in particular is decimated by Grass Knot. Focus Blast and T-bolt are possible together if Primal-Ogre isn't a concern. Trick is meant to cripple something, though, in the Ubers tier, that's not as simple as it sounds. Several mons in the tier hold non-removable items, such as the Arceus forms, both Primals, and Megas. I'm just going to calc mainly for Psychic, Psyshock, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and Thunderbolt.
Timid Nature, 40 HP/4 Def/212 SpA/252 Spe.
Hoopa-U vs. E-Killer Arceus (most practical with Arceus acting as a check)
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 242-286 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 226-267 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 201-237 (52.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (psyshock does similar damage)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 200-236 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Dark Pulse and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 400-472 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 151-178 (39.5 - 46.5%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Can Arceus counter Hoopa-U? Not really. If E-killer takes rock damage and comes into any move other than T-bolt it gets 2HKOed if it cannot get the KO with E-speed. And it's nearly a 50/50 chance on the counter if Hoopa has taken rock damage in the scenario that LO Arceus switches into Thunderbolt. I also want to add that Arceus will take 10% damage from LO recoil, meaning that after rocks and being hit by a move from Hoopa-U on switch-in, it sits below 60% HP. Arceus can very well check Hoopa-U. But how well? If Arceus sets up an SD, the better play IF Hoopa-U is choiced into any move besides Focus Blast, then it will OHKO next turn and at best sit with below 50% HP. That's only if Hoopa-U is locked into T-bolt as well. Any other move would make Arceus sit at below 30% HP bar Focus Blast. Without hazard damage Arceus fares much better, but mostly against choice-locked T-bolt. Arceus can also go for glory and try to nab a KO if Hoopa has taken rock damage once. The only problem with this is the result of not getting the KO, which makes Arceus lose an extra 10% HP from LO next turn on top of the major damage that was already done by Hoopa (unless it misses Focus Blast). Conclusion: Arceus is able to check Hoopa-U, but runs the risk of exhausting a great amount of HP in the process. normal Arceus without LO have less of a chance to revenge kill Hoopa-U after rocks in comparison but may set up SD more reliably, though they will still have a sizable chunk of HP taken out as payment. There is some tension on both sides of this matchup. Hoopa-U will not reliably check or counter Arceus-Normal.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Groudon
- Support Primal Don:
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 271-319 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after Rocks)
Precipice Blades always OHKOs as long as it doesn't miss.
0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 148-175 (47.5 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 306-360 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock and Thunderbolt are the only two moves Primal-Don can switch into from Specs Hoopa-U. And Psyshock still does good damage considering Primal-Don's massive physical bulk.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage from Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Can Primal-Don counter Hoopa-U? No. The only two moves it can switch into are Psyshock and T-bolt. Most of the Uber tier tends to run physical bulk because of the many common physical threats, such as E-killer, Mega-Mence, Primal-Don, and Ho-Oh to name a few. So Psychic would also tend to be a preferable STAB choice imo. From my calcs, the only two things that legitimately take more damage from Psyshock than Psychic are Ho-Oh and Primal-Ogre. So really... Primal-Don cannot act as a counter to Hoopa-U with choice specs. Can Primal-Don check Hoopa-U? Only while Primal-Don is "healthy." Support P-Don commonly sets up rocks, meaning it will normally have taken some amount of damage early on. That doesn't mean it can't be saved for later in the slightest, but it can only do as much as its remaining HP will allow for. It might seem like Support P-Don can reliably check Hoopa-U, which is true to an extent, but in practicality, Support P-Don is incredibly valuable. So much so, that it usually is needed to check something or stop a sweeper later on in the battle. Take Xerneas for example. P-Don is one of the most common checks for Geomancy Xerneas. P-Don absolutely NEEDS to be healthy if it wants to seriously check a boosted Xerneas properly. If it has taken over 50% damage from checking Hoopa-U earlier, it probably won't be able to stop Xerneas.
- Rock Polish Primal-Don
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 184-217 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 230-271 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Physical STAB from Primal-Don will OHKO given it doesn't miss for whatever reason.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 259-306 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 231-273 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage to Hyperspace Hole, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 156-184 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Wait what? Calm down Hoopa...)
Can P-Don counter? Snowball's chance in hell, same reasons as the support variant. Can P-Don check? yes, but it probably does not want to. Hoopa-U outspeeds all adamant variants before the boost and the jolly variant just doesn't have enough power to always guarantee the winning results. Hoopa-U does so much damage to this variant while it boosts its speed that any priority move bar bullet punch can revenge kill. Also, without Fire Punch, this variant has a 15% chance to miss an OHKO with Precipice Blades. Earthquake isn't used on this set due to the lack of power compared to Precipice Blades. P-Don would be better off leaving Hoopa-U alone and checking something else that can't dent it so much.
- Mixed Rock Polish Primal-Don
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Hold the phone, what? Hoopa-U is "FRAIL," is it not? Yes Hoopa is PHYSICALLY frail. But good lord, it somehow manages to survive Mild Nature Max Special Attack Primal-Groudon's Fire Blast 1v1 with merely 40 HP investment. My apologies, but Hoopa-U is crossed the plane of power and into the plane of insanity. I didn't even believe this calc when I first saw it. I thought that pretty much everything that didn't resist this P-Don variant's Fire Blast basically got OHKOed by the move. What's more ridiculous is the fact that Hoopa actually has a small chance to survive Fire Blast even after rocks. Again, do not underestimate Hoopa-U.
Precipice Blades will OHKO as long as it doesn't miss. Dragon Pulse can do at most 34% to Hoopa.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 174-205 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The only time psyshock will 2HKO P-Don)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 256-303 (75 - 88.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Well, I think that by now, you might have a good sense of the results. This P-Don variant can only act as a check to Hoopa-U. If P-Don enters the battlefield prior to reversion, Hoopa-U cannot OHKO with Psychic because P-Don only takes 6% from rocks before reversion takes place. But what seriously catches my attention here is how much pressure Hoopa-U places on this P-Don variant. P-Don can in fact set up a rock polish, but will only assure an OHKO back by landing Precipice Blades. But once again, Hoopa outspeeds before the speed boost. And the Paradancing Variant has similar Calcs to the non-mixed Rock Polish Variant. All in all, Hoopa-U cannot ever act as a counter... But Hoopa-U applies intense pressure all P-Don sets if P-Don is sent in to check Hoopa. In fact, Hoopa-U with a choice specs is powerful enough to take out P-Don after just a little prior damage. I rarely see P-Don with a speed nature, let alone with enough investment to outdo max nature base 80 speed. The same can be said about Primal-Kyogre in that regard. They don't run the speed nature for two main reasons:
(A) they don't really need to because they aren't outspeeding anything relevant
(B) the base 90 speed tier in Ubers greatly enjoys being able to hit the opposition with as much power as they can muster while being able to maintain/increase overall bulk appropriately.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Kyogre
- CM + 3 Attacks
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 303-357 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Blizzard vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 135-159 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO (Same damage as Thunder)
Okay, Primal-Ogre looks like it can handle Hoopa right?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 312-368 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 175-207 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 156-184 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 256-303 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Once again, Hoopa-U is not easily countered. P-Ogre has trouble even with Dark Pulse on switch-in, being 2HKOed over 50% of the time after rocks. P-Ogre doesn't have as much trouble as P-Don at checking Hoopa-U; yet, P-Don shouldn't have to leave itself with a gaping hole in its health in the process. Hoopa-U actually checks P-Ogre pretty well, despite the monstrous 160 base SpD of P-Ogre. Hoopa-U with T-bolt or Grass Knot puts P-Ogre in the hospital. So this practically means that Hoopa-U can benefit a team by simply being a damn Hoopa-Unbound. For example, say that your opponent has P-Ogre and Geomancy Xerneas on their team while you have Hoopa-U and P-Don. Hoopa-U being able to check P-Ogre means that P-Don doesn't have to pick and choose between beating Xerneas or P-Ogre. P-Ogre is gifted with insane wallbreaking potential. It is fairly common to use P-Ogre as a way to force walls to pick and choose what they can check and counter, thus giving dangerous sweepers exponentially higher chances at successfully sweeping or cleaning later on. Now, that being said, there are other things that check P-Ogre, such as Banded Ho-Oh, Zekrom, and physical LO Rayquaza. But I want to reinforce the point of the argument Hoopa-U frees other checks from having to pick and choose what they can beat. Hoopa-U benefits them in the same way as P-Don in the example scenario above. They get to let Hoopa-U take out something they check so they don't have to choose between as many things they can beat, thus playing a stronger role defensively. (The best defense is a good offense)
- Defensive
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 237-280 (76.2 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Scald vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 172-204 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 87-103 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
No matter what this variant of P-Ogre runs, it will not be able to OHKO this Hoopa-U without prior damage. This variant does commonly run 2 attacks, I just wanted to show the difference between Kyogre's signature move and scald, which is huge. This one runs enough speed to match standard Ho-Oh variants. Hoopa-U still outspeeds. But how much does Hoopa-U do to this variant?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 312-368 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 175-207 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Primal Kyogre: 181-214 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 156-184 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 234-276 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-U beats this variant as a check, and acts as a pretty decent counter too, though I wouldn't use Hoopa-U as a counter since it acts much better as a check. This variant is also not very happy acting as a counter to Specs Hoopa-U either. It has better chances than P-Don does in general against Hoopa, but I still think that Hoopa does enough damage to free up a teammate's job for doing something else.
- Physical Attacker
252+ Atk Primal Kyogre Waterfall vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 360-424 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Primal Kyogre Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 200-236 (64.3 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 78-92 (25 - 29.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This one is a bit like the CM + 3 Attacks variant, just on the physical side and with t-wave over CM.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 310-366 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 232-274 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 154-183 (38.2 - 45.4%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 174-205 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 256-303 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So let's see about this variant, which usually tries to outslow Primal-Don to be used as an anti-lead if I'm not mistaken, meaning it can tend to run Brave nature and less than 31 speed IVs. Otherwise I think it's used as a lure. I haven't really used any variant of Kyogre other than the Scarfed one from before ORAS and the Primal CM + 3 Attacks one. Anyway, Hoopa-U does way too much damage with all of its moves besides Focus Blast and Dark Pulse to grant P-Ogre an easy way to counter. This variant can check Hoopa-U, but just like the other two calcs above, Hoopa-U just puts a huge dent into its health, freeing up the job of something else on a team.
Darkrai vs. Hoopa-U
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 140-165 (45 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 105-125 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
At +2, Darkrai does double the damage basically. And yes, Dark Void exists and will only miss 20% of the time. But Darkrai should be able to give Hoopa-U a challenge anyway.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (41% chance to 2HKO from full)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 171-202 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 192-227 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Focus Blast OHKOs as long as it doesn't miss. First, notice how dark pulse from Hoopa-U, a move Darkrai resists, guarantees a 2HKO after rocks and has 41% chance to do the same without rocks up. That's incredible power. Grass Knot and T-bolt also dish out enough damage to make Darkrai too weak to sweep. Here's the problem, Darkrai can come into a psychic STAB move from Hoopa. But how much of a risk does Darkrai take if it comes in on any other move is the real question. Clearly, Darkrai is much more happy acting as a check. Can Darkrai put Hoopa-U to sleep and setup a nasty plot? Yes, but with some amount of risk. If Hoopa wakes up while Darkrai hits NP, then Darkrai won't be in a good position to sweep, mainly due to LO recoil. I suppose the same can be said about anything Darkrai puts to sleep - it has to burn more than 2 turns of sleep for Darkrai to cleanly sweep. What about Hoopa acting as a check to Darkrai? Well... if Darkrai is at +2, then no. What is Darkrai's best move to use when checking Hoopa-U? Dark Void + Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse. Hitting anything else will merely let Hoopa-U deck Darkrai in the jaw. There's also the possibility of Darkrai missing the sleep and letting Hoopa-U bop it for good damage. Overall though, Hoopa-U loses to Darkrai checking it unless it opts to run sleep talk, which I think is possible, but only usable in this specific situation imo. So it's more gimmicky than not, that and Hoopa couldn't have a choice item because it can't check Darkrai too well at all.
Hoopa-U vs. Ho-Oh
- Tank
Any attack from standard Tank Ho-Oh will OHKO Hoopa-U from full, but Hoopa does get to move first because this variant does not run more speed than Hoopa-U.
Grass Knot heals Ho-Oh.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 175-207 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 156-184 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 234-276 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Focus Blast is a move?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 256-303 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Hoopa Unbound Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 180-213 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Hoopa can use Foul Play, but is better off using dark pulse imo).
Summary: Tank Ho-Oh cannot counter Hoopa with rocks up, and is going to take at least 50% without rocks up coming into anything besides grass knot and focus blast. Sacred Fire is the best move for Ho-Oh to use since the Recoil from Brave Bird could end Ho-Oh's time in battle depending on the scenario. Ho-Oh can really only act as a soft-check to Hoopa-U in addition to being a shaky counter. Ho-Oh is a fantastic pokemon in Ubers, but against Hoopa-U, it's pretty evident that Ho-Oh doesn't have the favorable matchup. Thankfully, being a soft-check is very beneficial, as it makes Ho-Oh's primary job extremely easy to accomplish. Unfortunately for Ho-Oh, Specs Hoopa-U checks it exceptionally well despite being a special attacker, which is downright amazing when you consider that none of Hoopa's moves are super effective apart from T-bolt. Ho-Oh is used fairly commonly in practice, which is good news for Hoopa-U.
- Choice Band
Ho-Oh OHKOs twice over with a choice band; however, Ho-Oh does not normally run more speed than 279 because seeing a max speed Jolly Nature Ho-Oh is uncommon. I've also never once seen Scarfed Ho-Oh. The only move that Ho-Oh has on this set that doesn't OHKO Hoopa is Earthquake, (83.2 - 98%) which has a 68.8% chance to OHKO after rocks to 40 HP/4 Def Hoopa-U. Let's see what Hoopa does though.
- - Standard Smogon CB Ho-Oh
The Calcs for this variant of Ho-Oh are the exact same as the calcs for the Tank Variant in terms of Ho-Oh taking damage. They run the exact same spread.
- - CB Ho-Oh Adamant max attack, max speed.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 270-318 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Other moves always OHKO Hoopa-U)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 180-213 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 160-190 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 240-284 (67.9 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Grass Knot and Focus Blast do negative damage to Ho-Oh.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 255-301 (72.2 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So... As long as Ho-Oh does not outspeed Hoopa, Ho-Oh is pretty much checked by it and Ho-Oh can only act as a soft-check. Only Jolly Nature Ho-Oh with enough investment to outspeed 284 will be able to kill Hoopa-U before Hoopa-U drops a bomb on Ho-Oh's back. Hoopa also acts as a revenge killer and check in the same circumstances that Ho-Oh doesn't outspeed. This is good news for Hoopa-U because Ho-Oh generally needs to run an Adamant Nature to assure that its moves are also kill switches to about half of the tier.
Latios vs. Hoopa-U
- Offensive Defog
252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 280-330 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 255-300 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Hidden Power Anything-Besides-Bug does less than 33% to Hoopa-U. I have no idea why HP Bug would be run on Latios, I'm just saying that HP Bug is the only thing from Latios that will 100% assure an OHKO on this Hoopa from full HP. Now let's see what Specs Hoopa-U can do.
- - For Modest Nature Latios or Max Speed Timid Latios
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 54-64 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock (Because we all care about that 5HKO)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 72-85 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (67.2% chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rock)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 81-96 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- 48.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (95.3 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- - For Non-Max-Speed Timid Latios (normally 176 or 180 Spe investment to outspeed base 100)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (44 - 51.8%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 81-96 (25.3 - 30%) -- 2.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (90 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (43.8% chance to OHKO from full)
Other moves don't do much damage.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (89.7 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
So... Here's what happens with this matchup. This Latios variant can check Hoopa, but it has to drop a draco. This variant can also be used as a soft-counter because it outspeeds and doesn't lose to any move after rocks bar STAB Dark Pulse. If this Latios lacks memento, Hoopa-U can revenge kill in the case that Latios dropped a draco. If Latios has used defog and Hoopa-U is able to properly come in as a check to Latios, then Draco Meteor is the only way Latios can win IF running a modest nature; yet, the chance that Draco Meteor from Modest Soul Dew Latios OHKOs Hoopa-U from full is an unfavorable 37.5%. If Latios used defog and is running a timid nature, then Hoopa-U checks it fairly well. Dark Pulse, even against Ho-Oh, was doing at least 37%. It's really tedious to switch into this Hoopa-U. As long as timid Latios lacks memento, Hoopa-U can either force it out, win the 1v1, or lose the 1v1 and leave a severely damaged Latios at -4 SpA from dropping two dracos; however, Hoopa-U can only check Latios after it has used its nuke or if Hoopa-U won't take hazard damage upon entry. Fortunately, Latios can simply use Memento in order to help its team and leave Hoopa-U crippled. All in all, this variant of Latios should tend to have an advantage against Hoopa-U, and even be able to act as a soft-counter to Hoopa-U.
- 4 Attacks
Latios can also use Grass Knot, Thunder, or HP Fire if it chooses. Grass Knot and Thunder both 2HKO this Hoopa-U from full if Latios is Modest while Thunder is a roll to 2HKO if Timid. Draco Meteor is the same as the Offensive Defog variant's.
Hoopa-U's calcs are the same for this Latios as the Offensive Defog variant.
So essentially, you have the same situations mentioned above for the Offensive Defog variant with the exception of Latios using memento. If Hoopa-U is going to check and will take hazard damage, then Hoopa loses to Draco from Modest Latios given Latios hasn't dropped its special attack with the nuke already. If Latios is Timid, Draco after rocks will OHKO 62.5% of the time. Otherwise Hoopa-U wins a majority of the time. If hazards aren't going to hurt Hoopa, then either natured Latios will be at a disadvantage or be left with -2 SpA. This variant is able to soft-counter Hoopa-U as well, which is good.
- Calm Mind
Same calcs as the two variants above both defensively and offensively. Can Latios check Hoopa-U and use a calm mind? Yes, so long as Hoopa-U isn't locked into a Dark STAB move.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 194-230 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah, you can't roost away that damage. Foul Play does over 50% to -Atk nature with 0 IVs as well. Psyshock is the same as above for the Offensive Defog Latios (4 HP / 0 Def Soul Dew Latios) which has 67.2% chance to 2HKO from full and guarantees a 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Well, it looks like this Latios can check Hoopa better, especially if Hoopa is locked out of a Dark STAB move. The best part is that CM Latios can sometimes use this Hoopa-U as fodder as long as Latios has roost in its moveset. Latios has proven itself as a soft-counter to this Specs Hoopa-U. Specs Hoopa-U loses checking efficiency against CM Latios with each Calm Mind boost; yet, Latios has to hit Hoopa-U with Draco Meteor and drop its SpA by 2 stages. In summation, Latios should tend to have an advantage against Specs Hoopa-U in most cases.
Hoopa-U vs. Rayquaza
Rayquaza, every variant, is able to outspeed Hoopa-U. Thus, Rayquaza is able to revenge kill and check Specs Hoopa-U quite easily. This Hoopa-U does have the fortunate positive of being so powerful that Rayquaza is only able to switch into Grass Knot without taking too much damage.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 128-151 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 64-75 (18.3 - 21.4%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock (... That is the strangest calc I've ever seen)
These are the only two moves that Rayquaza can switch into, and Focus Blast does enough so that another teammate can revenge kill more easily. With consideration to Stealth Rock and LO recoil, Rayquaza's life may have to be a little shorter than expected in that regard as well. Another noteworthy thing to mention is that Rayquaza can't just use E-speed to OHKO this Hoopa-U.
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 218-257 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 240-283 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 272-321 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (25% chance to OHKO from full, 75% when Adamant)
For non-banded variants, Rayquaza has to use V-Create or Dragon Ascent to assure an OHKO on this Hoopa-U, even after Stealth Rocks. That fact has some potential use, as Rayquaza may have to choose between hitting Hoopa or predicting a potential counter. For instance, rocks are up on both sides and Hoopa-U has just checked support Primal-Groudon and scored a KO with psychic. Now Mixed-Rayquaza comes into the fray to revenge kill. Suppose Hoopa-U has an unrevealed Arceus and Diancie-Mega as teammates. It looks like it could be a support form Arceus, which MixQuaza can deal with thanks to Draco + Dragon Ascent as long as the Arceus isn't speedy. If Rayquaza is running Earthquake, then it can catch Diancie on the switch but will lose to Hoopa-U or end up face to face with an Arceus if Ray overpredicts EQ. If Rayquaza uses Dragon Ascent, it will be able to kill Hoopa-U and probably be enough to beat the Arceus if it wants to switch in but will leave itself susceptible to Diancie switching into the move. If Rayquaza is running V-Create, then Diancie should be comfortable switching into any of its moves. Rayquaza can then choose to predict a switch to Diancie and double to a teammate that can check Diancie but runs the risk of Hoopa-U staying in. Of course the opponent won't know Ray's set nor is this type of situation going to occur frequently. But the fact that a Rayquaza with the option to change moves could fall into a situation like that is actually really interesting. This is not a "new" situation either, but Hoopa-U is another mon that can create this situation for Rayquaza. I'm not saying that this is something that bolsters Hoopa-U's viability nor decreases Rayquaza's viability. I'm saying that any pokemon with the ability to create these types of scenarios have a higher justification to be used on a team. And since this Hoopa-U forces non-CB Rayquaza to use Dragon Ascent or V-Create to get a KO, that leaves it with stat drops. That may be normal, but that just supports my argument that Hoopa-U can fit into the tier more than one might think.
Hoopa-U vs. Mewtwo
- LO Mewtwo
This matchup was actually a little surprising to me.
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 155-182 (49.8 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 142-168 (45.6 - 54%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 116-136 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Uhm... Yeah. Mewtwo has to land two of the 'Blast' moves to assure the 2HKO on Hoopa-U even after rocks. That's pretty impressive. Let's see how Hoopa fares on offense.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 144-170 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 128-151 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 127-150 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 192-227 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 214-252 (60.6 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 512-606 (145 - 171.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Calm down Hoopa, you don't need to be that mean)
When you factor in the LO recoil, Hoopa-U can effectively check Mewtwo despite being slow. I calced for electro ball, but it did less than Ice Beam. Hoopa-U is even tough enough to act as a soft-counter to LO Mewtwo. LO Mewtwo cannot counter Hoopa-U outside of Psyshock, Hyperspace Hole, and Focus Blast. I mention again that the LO recoil doesn't help Mewtwo here. I do understand that LO Mewtwo can run Calm Mind, but according to smogon, Mewtwo-Mega-Y is better suited to 3 attacks + taunt or calm mind.
- Mewtwo-Mega-Y
The "strongest" pokemon around currently, having an offensive base stat of 194. There is no equal raw power from any existing pokemon stat-wise at present. Yes, this variant of the special attacking set is able to set up Calm Mind on this Hoopa-U. It can soft-check choiced Hoopa-U locked into non-Dark STAB apart from Psyshock. Additionally, the only move that CM Mewtwo-Y commonly runs that can knock out this Hoopa-U is Focus Blast or Fire Blast... And if you're trying to OHKO after rocks... Well... Mewtwo-Y has to have 2 calm minds under its belt, which is not at all an easy accomplishment to do in Ubers.
+2 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 260-306 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Focus Blast OHKOs after Stealth Rock at +2, 90.9 - 107%)
+1 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 212-250 (68.1 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This Hoopa-U surprisingly can check Mewtwo-Y, even with a calm mind boost or two.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 156-184 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 270-318 (76.4 - 90%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And Mewtwo-Y can't set up on Hoopa-U to begin with unless it is clear what set Hoopa-U runs, and even then, it's a bad idea if Hoopa-U enters as a check.
- Mewtwo-Mega-X
This one has the best matchup against Hoopa-U, but prior to mega evolving may regret switching into Hoopa-U. Can the Mega-X form act as a counter? Absolutely not unless it's an emergency. Even coming into Focus Blast does at least 33% to the X form, which is enough damage to ease revenge killing for a teammate. Every other move on this Hoopa-U will 2HKO after rocks with T-Bolt doing at least 49.5% as the weakest move besides Focus Blast. Thankfully, Mewtwo-X OHKOs this Hoopa-U from full with Low Kick... No really, that's the only way for standard Mewtwo-X to OHKO Hoopa-U, even after rocks. If this is the Mewtwo-X that doesn't have 144 defense investment...
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 219-258 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only way another move can OHKO this Hoopa-U after rocks is if Mewtwo-X runs an adamant nature and even then it is a roll. This can prove beneficial in some circumstances, such as when Giratina-O is one of Hoopa-U's teammates, as it can force Mewtwo-X to make a decision between predicting a Low Kick counter or beating Hoopa-U with Low Kick.
Hoopa-U vs. Xerneas
This matchup seems a bit unfair; however, Xerneas is just that good. Regardless, there is a difference between unboosted Xerneas and Geomancy boosted Xerneas. Of course Xerneas wins with moonblast. But Geomancy Xerneas seldom runs more than 245 speed. Every other non-defensive set for Xerneas should outspeed this Hoopa-U. Xerneas can check Hoopa-U pretty well. Sadly, Xerneas is not a good counter for Specs Hoopa unless it's a set that runs more speed than 284. Dark Pulse and Focus Blast are doing similar damage to Xerneas. How much will Geomancy Xerneas take from that as a counter?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 119-141 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 64.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Over 54% since it takes damage upon entry and damage from Hoopa again as Hoopa does outspeed most Geomancy Xerneas. That leaves Xerneas too weak to sweep if it decided to use geomancy.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 179-211 (40.7 - 48%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 238-281 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Psyshock and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 268-316 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Uhm... ouch. Geomancy Xerneas doesn't really even appreciate checking Hoopa-U outside of Focus Blast and Dark Pulse. It just takes too much damage from anything else. In fact, unless it is clear what set Hoopa-U is running, Geomancy Xerneas is almost better off avoiding confrontation with Hoopa-U. It's the same with a Mega-Lucario, Geomancy Xerneas does not enter the battle while Lucario is presently out. What's even more bizarre is the fact that Defensive Xerneas and CM Xerneas actually have a chance NOT to OHKO this Hoopa-U with Moonblast even after rocks.
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 272-324 (87.4 - 104.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 272-324 (87.4 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Once again, Hoopa-U is powerful enough to make a setup sweeper refrain from trying to check it or set up on it. Hoopa-U just does so much damage that whatever was in front of it is easy pickings for an appropriate teammate. This is also just the calcs for Specs Hoopa-U, which doesn't seriously need max SpA investment to do its job as a fearsome wallbreaker. I'm done writing out the calcs for Specs Hoopa-U because I've been writing this whole post for over a day now and want to move onto one more Hoopa-U, then generally address other viable sets. If you want to do your own calcs, feel free. But with nearly everything in the tier, Specs Hoopa-U is doing some very noticeable damage and is not nearly as frail as it seems to be.
Possible Moveset:
- Psychic/Psyshock/Hyperspace Hole
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot/Thunderbolt/Trick
Both STAB. Foul Play is usable as STAB but less useful than Dark Pulse. Focus Blast is great coverage and self explanatory. Hyperspace Hole is useful against mons that can create subs or use protect, such as Perish Trapper Gengar-Mega. When using Psychic, Thunderbolt is especially useful for hitting Ho-Oh and surprisingly packs just enough power to restrict the number of counters. Grass Knot generally packs a good 120 base power given the great mass throughout the tier. Primal-Ogre in particular is decimated by Grass Knot. Focus Blast and T-bolt are possible together if Primal-Ogre isn't a concern. Trick is meant to cripple something, though, in the Ubers tier, that's not as simple as it sounds. Several mons in the tier hold non-removable items, such as the Arceus forms, both Primals, and Megas. I'm just going to calc mainly for Psychic, Psyshock, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and Thunderbolt.
Timid Nature, 40 HP/4 Def/212 SpA/252 Spe.
Hoopa-U vs. E-Killer Arceus (most practical with Arceus acting as a check)
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 242-286 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 226-267 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 201-237 (52.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (psyshock does similar damage)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 200-236 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Dark Pulse and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 400-472 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 151-178 (39.5 - 46.5%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Can Arceus counter Hoopa-U? Not really. If E-killer takes rock damage and comes into any move other than T-bolt it gets 2HKOed if it cannot get the KO with E-speed. And it's nearly a 50/50 chance on the counter if Hoopa has taken rock damage in the scenario that LO Arceus switches into Thunderbolt. I also want to add that Arceus will take 10% damage from LO recoil, meaning that after rocks and being hit by a move from Hoopa-U on switch-in, it sits below 60% HP. Arceus can very well check Hoopa-U. But how well? If Arceus sets up an SD, the better play IF Hoopa-U is choiced into any move besides Focus Blast, then it will OHKO next turn and at best sit with below 50% HP. That's only if Hoopa-U is locked into T-bolt as well. Any other move would make Arceus sit at below 30% HP bar Focus Blast. Without hazard damage Arceus fares much better, but mostly against choice-locked T-bolt. Arceus can also go for glory and try to nab a KO if Hoopa has taken rock damage once. The only problem with this is the result of not getting the KO, which makes Arceus lose an extra 10% HP from LO next turn on top of the major damage that was already done by Hoopa (unless it misses Focus Blast). Conclusion: Arceus is able to check Hoopa-U, but runs the risk of exhausting a great amount of HP in the process. normal Arceus without LO have less of a chance to revenge kill Hoopa-U after rocks in comparison but may set up SD more reliably, though they will still have a sizable chunk of HP taken out as payment. There is some tension on both sides of this matchup. Hoopa-U will not reliably check or counter Arceus-Normal.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Groudon
- Support Primal Don:
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 271-319 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after Rocks)
Precipice Blades always OHKOs as long as it doesn't miss.
0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 148-175 (47.5 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 306-360 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock and Thunderbolt are the only two moves Primal-Don can switch into from Specs Hoopa-U. And Psyshock still does good damage considering Primal-Don's massive physical bulk.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage from Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Can Primal-Don counter Hoopa-U? No. The only two moves it can switch into are Psyshock and T-bolt. Most of the Uber tier tends to run physical bulk because of the many common physical threats, such as E-killer, Mega-Mence, Primal-Don, and Ho-Oh to name a few. So Psychic would also tend to be a preferable STAB choice imo. From my calcs, the only two things that legitimately take more damage from Psyshock than Psychic are Ho-Oh and Primal-Ogre. So really... Primal-Don cannot act as a counter to Hoopa-U with choice specs. Can Primal-Don check Hoopa-U? Only while Primal-Don is "healthy." Support P-Don commonly sets up rocks, meaning it will normally have taken some amount of damage early on. That doesn't mean it can't be saved for later in the slightest, but it can only do as much as its remaining HP will allow for. It might seem like Support P-Don can reliably check Hoopa-U, which is true to an extent, but in practicality, Support P-Don is incredibly valuable. So much so, that it usually is needed to check something or stop a sweeper later on in the battle. Take Xerneas for example. P-Don is one of the most common checks for Geomancy Xerneas. P-Don absolutely NEEDS to be healthy if it wants to seriously check a boosted Xerneas properly. If it has taken over 50% damage from checking Hoopa-U earlier, it probably won't be able to stop Xerneas.
- Rock Polish Primal-Don
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 184-217 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 230-271 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Physical STAB from Primal-Don will OHKO given it doesn't miss for whatever reason.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 259-306 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 231-273 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage to Hyperspace Hole, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 156-184 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Wait what? Calm down Hoopa...)
Can P-Don counter? Snowball's chance in hell, same reasons as the support variant. Can P-Don check? yes, but it probably does not want to. Hoopa-U outspeeds all adamant variants before the boost and the jolly variant just doesn't have enough power to always guarantee the winning results. Hoopa-U does so much damage to this variant while it boosts its speed that any priority move bar bullet punch can revenge kill. Also, without Fire Punch, this variant has a 15% chance to miss an OHKO with Precipice Blades. Earthquake isn't used on this set due to the lack of power compared to Precipice Blades. P-Don would be better off leaving Hoopa-U alone and checking something else that can't dent it so much.
- Mixed Rock Polish Primal-Don
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Hold the phone, what? Hoopa-U is "FRAIL," is it not? Yes Hoopa is PHYSICALLY frail. But good lord, it somehow manages to survive Mild Nature Max Special Attack Primal-Groudon's Fire Blast 1v1 with merely 40 HP investment. My apologies, but Hoopa-U is crossed the plane of power and into the plane of insanity. I didn't even believe this calc when I first saw it. I thought that pretty much everything that didn't resist this P-Don variant's Fire Blast basically got OHKOed by the move. What's more ridiculous is the fact that Hoopa actually has a small chance to survive Fire Blast even after rocks. Again, do not underestimate Hoopa-U.
Precipice Blades will OHKO as long as it doesn't miss. Dragon Pulse can do at most 34% to Hoopa.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 174-205 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (The only time psyshock will 2HKO P-Don)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 256-303 (75 - 88.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Well, I think that by now, you might have a good sense of the results. This P-Don variant can only act as a check to Hoopa-U. If P-Don enters the battlefield prior to reversion, Hoopa-U cannot OHKO with Psychic because P-Don only takes 6% from rocks before reversion takes place. But what seriously catches my attention here is how much pressure Hoopa-U places on this P-Don variant. P-Don can in fact set up a rock polish, but will only assure an OHKO back by landing Precipice Blades. But once again, Hoopa outspeeds before the speed boost. And the Paradancing Variant has similar Calcs to the non-mixed Rock Polish Variant. All in all, Hoopa-U cannot ever act as a counter... But Hoopa-U applies intense pressure all P-Don sets if P-Don is sent in to check Hoopa. In fact, Hoopa-U with a choice specs is powerful enough to take out P-Don after just a little prior damage. I rarely see P-Don with a speed nature, let alone with enough investment to outdo max nature base 80 speed. The same can be said about Primal-Kyogre in that regard. They don't run the speed nature for two main reasons:
(A) they don't really need to because they aren't outspeeding anything relevant
(B) the base 90 speed tier in Ubers greatly enjoys being able to hit the opposition with as much power as they can muster while being able to maintain/increase overall bulk appropriately.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Kyogre
- CM + 3 Attacks
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 303-357 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Blizzard vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 135-159 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO (Same damage as Thunder)
Okay, Primal-Ogre looks like it can handle Hoopa right?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 312-368 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 175-207 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 156-184 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 256-303 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Once again, Hoopa-U is not easily countered. P-Ogre has trouble even with Dark Pulse on switch-in, being 2HKOed over 50% of the time after rocks. P-Ogre doesn't have as much trouble as P-Don at checking Hoopa-U; yet, P-Don shouldn't have to leave itself with a gaping hole in its health in the process. Hoopa-U actually checks P-Ogre pretty well, despite the monstrous 160 base SpD of P-Ogre. Hoopa-U with T-bolt or Grass Knot puts P-Ogre in the hospital. So this practically means that Hoopa-U can benefit a team by simply being a damn Hoopa-Unbound. For example, say that your opponent has P-Ogre and Geomancy Xerneas on their team while you have Hoopa-U and P-Don. Hoopa-U being able to check P-Ogre means that P-Don doesn't have to pick and choose between beating Xerneas or P-Ogre. P-Ogre is gifted with insane wallbreaking potential. It is fairly common to use P-Ogre as a way to force walls to pick and choose what they can check and counter, thus giving dangerous sweepers exponentially higher chances at successfully sweeping or cleaning later on. Now, that being said, there are other things that check P-Ogre, such as Banded Ho-Oh, Zekrom, and physical LO Rayquaza. But I want to reinforce the point of the argument Hoopa-U frees other checks from having to pick and choose what they can beat. Hoopa-U benefits them in the same way as P-Don in the example scenario above. They get to let Hoopa-U take out something they check so they don't have to choose between as many things they can beat, thus playing a stronger role defensively. (The best defense is a good offense)
- Defensive
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 237-280 (76.2 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Scald vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 172-204 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 87-103 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
No matter what this variant of P-Ogre runs, it will not be able to OHKO this Hoopa-U without prior damage. This variant does commonly run 2 attacks, I just wanted to show the difference between Kyogre's signature move and scald, which is huge. This one runs enough speed to match standard Ho-Oh variants. Hoopa-U still outspeeds. But how much does Hoopa-U do to this variant?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 312-368 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 175-207 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Primal Kyogre: 181-214 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 156-184 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole and Focus Blast)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 234-276 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-U beats this variant as a check, and acts as a pretty decent counter too, though I wouldn't use Hoopa-U as a counter since it acts much better as a check. This variant is also not very happy acting as a counter to Specs Hoopa-U either. It has better chances than P-Don does in general against Hoopa, but I still think that Hoopa does enough damage to free up a teammate's job for doing something else.
- Physical Attacker
252+ Atk Primal Kyogre Waterfall vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound in Heavy Rain: 360-424 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Primal Kyogre Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 200-236 (64.3 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 78-92 (25 - 29.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This one is a bit like the CM + 3 Attacks variant, just on the physical side and with t-wave over CM.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 310-366 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 232-274 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 154-183 (38.2 - 45.4%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 174-205 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 256-303 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So let's see about this variant, which usually tries to outslow Primal-Don to be used as an anti-lead if I'm not mistaken, meaning it can tend to run Brave nature and less than 31 speed IVs. Otherwise I think it's used as a lure. I haven't really used any variant of Kyogre other than the Scarfed one from before ORAS and the Primal CM + 3 Attacks one. Anyway, Hoopa-U does way too much damage with all of its moves besides Focus Blast and Dark Pulse to grant P-Ogre an easy way to counter. This variant can check Hoopa-U, but just like the other two calcs above, Hoopa-U just puts a huge dent into its health, freeing up the job of something else on a team.
Darkrai vs. Hoopa-U
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 140-165 (45 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 105-125 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
At +2, Darkrai does double the damage basically. And yes, Dark Void exists and will only miss 20% of the time. But Darkrai should be able to give Hoopa-U a challenge anyway.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (41% chance to 2HKO from full)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 171-202 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 192-227 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Focus Blast OHKOs as long as it doesn't miss. First, notice how dark pulse from Hoopa-U, a move Darkrai resists, guarantees a 2HKO after rocks and has 41% chance to do the same without rocks up. That's incredible power. Grass Knot and T-bolt also dish out enough damage to make Darkrai too weak to sweep. Here's the problem, Darkrai can come into a psychic STAB move from Hoopa. But how much of a risk does Darkrai take if it comes in on any other move is the real question. Clearly, Darkrai is much more happy acting as a check. Can Darkrai put Hoopa-U to sleep and setup a nasty plot? Yes, but with some amount of risk. If Hoopa wakes up while Darkrai hits NP, then Darkrai won't be in a good position to sweep, mainly due to LO recoil. I suppose the same can be said about anything Darkrai puts to sleep - it has to burn more than 2 turns of sleep for Darkrai to cleanly sweep. What about Hoopa acting as a check to Darkrai? Well... if Darkrai is at +2, then no. What is Darkrai's best move to use when checking Hoopa-U? Dark Void + Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse. Hitting anything else will merely let Hoopa-U deck Darkrai in the jaw. There's also the possibility of Darkrai missing the sleep and letting Hoopa-U bop it for good damage. Overall though, Hoopa-U loses to Darkrai checking it unless it opts to run sleep talk, which I think is possible, but only usable in this specific situation imo. So it's more gimmicky than not, that and Hoopa couldn't have a choice item because it can't check Darkrai too well at all.
Hoopa-U vs. Ho-Oh
- Tank
Any attack from standard Tank Ho-Oh will OHKO Hoopa-U from full, but Hoopa does get to move first because this variant does not run more speed than Hoopa-U.
Grass Knot heals Ho-Oh.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 175-207 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 156-184 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 234-276 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Focus Blast is a move?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 256-303 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Hoopa Unbound Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 180-213 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Hoopa can use Foul Play, but is better off using dark pulse imo).
Summary: Tank Ho-Oh cannot counter Hoopa with rocks up, and is going to take at least 50% without rocks up coming into anything besides grass knot and focus blast. Sacred Fire is the best move for Ho-Oh to use since the Recoil from Brave Bird could end Ho-Oh's time in battle depending on the scenario. Ho-Oh can really only act as a soft-check to Hoopa-U in addition to being a shaky counter. Ho-Oh is a fantastic pokemon in Ubers, but against Hoopa-U, it's pretty evident that Ho-Oh doesn't have the favorable matchup. Thankfully, being a soft-check is very beneficial, as it makes Ho-Oh's primary job extremely easy to accomplish. Unfortunately for Ho-Oh, Specs Hoopa-U checks it exceptionally well despite being a special attacker, which is downright amazing when you consider that none of Hoopa's moves are super effective apart from T-bolt. Ho-Oh is used fairly commonly in practice, which is good news for Hoopa-U.
- Choice Band
Ho-Oh OHKOs twice over with a choice band; however, Ho-Oh does not normally run more speed than 279 because seeing a max speed Jolly Nature Ho-Oh is uncommon. I've also never once seen Scarfed Ho-Oh. The only move that Ho-Oh has on this set that doesn't OHKO Hoopa is Earthquake, (83.2 - 98%) which has a 68.8% chance to OHKO after rocks to 40 HP/4 Def Hoopa-U. Let's see what Hoopa does though.
- - Standard Smogon CB Ho-Oh
The Calcs for this variant of Ho-Oh are the exact same as the calcs for the Tank Variant in terms of Ho-Oh taking damage. They run the exact same spread.
- - CB Ho-Oh Adamant max attack, max speed.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 270-318 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Other moves always OHKO Hoopa-U)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 180-213 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 160-190 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 240-284 (67.9 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Grass Knot and Focus Blast do negative damage to Ho-Oh.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 255-301 (72.2 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So... As long as Ho-Oh does not outspeed Hoopa, Ho-Oh is pretty much checked by it and Ho-Oh can only act as a soft-check. Only Jolly Nature Ho-Oh with enough investment to outspeed 284 will be able to kill Hoopa-U before Hoopa-U drops a bomb on Ho-Oh's back. Hoopa also acts as a revenge killer and check in the same circumstances that Ho-Oh doesn't outspeed. This is good news for Hoopa-U because Ho-Oh generally needs to run an Adamant Nature to assure that its moves are also kill switches to about half of the tier.
Latios vs. Hoopa-U
- Offensive Defog
252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 280-330 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 255-300 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Hidden Power Anything-Besides-Bug does less than 33% to Hoopa-U. I have no idea why HP Bug would be run on Latios, I'm just saying that HP Bug is the only thing from Latios that will 100% assure an OHKO on this Hoopa from full HP. Now let's see what Specs Hoopa-U can do.
- - For Modest Nature Latios or Max Speed Timid Latios
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 54-64 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock (Because we all care about that 5HKO)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 72-85 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (67.2% chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rock)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 81-96 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- 48.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (95.3 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- - For Non-Max-Speed Timid Latios (normally 176 or 180 Spe investment to outspeed base 100)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (44 - 51.8%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 81-96 (25.3 - 30%) -- 2.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (90 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (43.8% chance to OHKO from full)
Other moves don't do much damage.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 288-342 (89.7 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Latios: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
So... Here's what happens with this matchup. This Latios variant can check Hoopa, but it has to drop a draco. This variant can also be used as a soft-counter because it outspeeds and doesn't lose to any move after rocks bar STAB Dark Pulse. If this Latios lacks memento, Hoopa-U can revenge kill in the case that Latios dropped a draco. If Latios has used defog and Hoopa-U is able to properly come in as a check to Latios, then Draco Meteor is the only way Latios can win IF running a modest nature; yet, the chance that Draco Meteor from Modest Soul Dew Latios OHKOs Hoopa-U from full is an unfavorable 37.5%. If Latios used defog and is running a timid nature, then Hoopa-U checks it fairly well. Dark Pulse, even against Ho-Oh, was doing at least 37%. It's really tedious to switch into this Hoopa-U. As long as timid Latios lacks memento, Hoopa-U can either force it out, win the 1v1, or lose the 1v1 and leave a severely damaged Latios at -4 SpA from dropping two dracos; however, Hoopa-U can only check Latios after it has used its nuke or if Hoopa-U won't take hazard damage upon entry. Fortunately, Latios can simply use Memento in order to help its team and leave Hoopa-U crippled. All in all, this variant of Latios should tend to have an advantage against Hoopa-U, and even be able to act as a soft-counter to Hoopa-U.
- 4 Attacks
Latios can also use Grass Knot, Thunder, or HP Fire if it chooses. Grass Knot and Thunder both 2HKO this Hoopa-U from full if Latios is Modest while Thunder is a roll to 2HKO if Timid. Draco Meteor is the same as the Offensive Defog variant's.
Hoopa-U's calcs are the same for this Latios as the Offensive Defog variant.
So essentially, you have the same situations mentioned above for the Offensive Defog variant with the exception of Latios using memento. If Hoopa-U is going to check and will take hazard damage, then Hoopa loses to Draco from Modest Latios given Latios hasn't dropped its special attack with the nuke already. If Latios is Timid, Draco after rocks will OHKO 62.5% of the time. Otherwise Hoopa-U wins a majority of the time. If hazards aren't going to hurt Hoopa, then either natured Latios will be at a disadvantage or be left with -2 SpA. This variant is able to soft-counter Hoopa-U as well, which is good.
- Calm Mind
Same calcs as the two variants above both defensively and offensively. Can Latios check Hoopa-U and use a calm mind? Yes, so long as Hoopa-U isn't locked into a Dark STAB move.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 194-230 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah, you can't roost away that damage. Foul Play does over 50% to -Atk nature with 0 IVs as well. Psyshock is the same as above for the Offensive Defog Latios (4 HP / 0 Def Soul Dew Latios) which has 67.2% chance to 2HKO from full and guarantees a 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Well, it looks like this Latios can check Hoopa better, especially if Hoopa is locked out of a Dark STAB move. The best part is that CM Latios can sometimes use this Hoopa-U as fodder as long as Latios has roost in its moveset. Latios has proven itself as a soft-counter to this Specs Hoopa-U. Specs Hoopa-U loses checking efficiency against CM Latios with each Calm Mind boost; yet, Latios has to hit Hoopa-U with Draco Meteor and drop its SpA by 2 stages. In summation, Latios should tend to have an advantage against Specs Hoopa-U in most cases.
Hoopa-U vs. Rayquaza
Rayquaza, every variant, is able to outspeed Hoopa-U. Thus, Rayquaza is able to revenge kill and check Specs Hoopa-U quite easily. This Hoopa-U does have the fortunate positive of being so powerful that Rayquaza is only able to switch into Grass Knot without taking too much damage.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 128-151 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 64-75 (18.3 - 21.4%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock (... That is the strangest calc I've ever seen)
These are the only two moves that Rayquaza can switch into, and Focus Blast does enough so that another teammate can revenge kill more easily. With consideration to Stealth Rock and LO recoil, Rayquaza's life may have to be a little shorter than expected in that regard as well. Another noteworthy thing to mention is that Rayquaza can't just use E-speed to OHKO this Hoopa-U.
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 218-257 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 240-283 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 272-321 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (25% chance to OHKO from full, 75% when Adamant)
For non-banded variants, Rayquaza has to use V-Create or Dragon Ascent to assure an OHKO on this Hoopa-U, even after Stealth Rocks. That fact has some potential use, as Rayquaza may have to choose between hitting Hoopa or predicting a potential counter. For instance, rocks are up on both sides and Hoopa-U has just checked support Primal-Groudon and scored a KO with psychic. Now Mixed-Rayquaza comes into the fray to revenge kill. Suppose Hoopa-U has an unrevealed Arceus and Diancie-Mega as teammates. It looks like it could be a support form Arceus, which MixQuaza can deal with thanks to Draco + Dragon Ascent as long as the Arceus isn't speedy. If Rayquaza is running Earthquake, then it can catch Diancie on the switch but will lose to Hoopa-U or end up face to face with an Arceus if Ray overpredicts EQ. If Rayquaza uses Dragon Ascent, it will be able to kill Hoopa-U and probably be enough to beat the Arceus if it wants to switch in but will leave itself susceptible to Diancie switching into the move. If Rayquaza is running V-Create, then Diancie should be comfortable switching into any of its moves. Rayquaza can then choose to predict a switch to Diancie and double to a teammate that can check Diancie but runs the risk of Hoopa-U staying in. Of course the opponent won't know Ray's set nor is this type of situation going to occur frequently. But the fact that a Rayquaza with the option to change moves could fall into a situation like that is actually really interesting. This is not a "new" situation either, but Hoopa-U is another mon that can create this situation for Rayquaza. I'm not saying that this is something that bolsters Hoopa-U's viability nor decreases Rayquaza's viability. I'm saying that any pokemon with the ability to create these types of scenarios have a higher justification to be used on a team. And since this Hoopa-U forces non-CB Rayquaza to use Dragon Ascent or V-Create to get a KO, that leaves it with stat drops. That may be normal, but that just supports my argument that Hoopa-U can fit into the tier more than one might think.
Hoopa-U vs. Mewtwo
- LO Mewtwo
This matchup was actually a little surprising to me.
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 155-182 (49.8 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 142-168 (45.6 - 54%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 116-136 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Uhm... Yeah. Mewtwo has to land two of the 'Blast' moves to assure the 2HKO on Hoopa-U even after rocks. That's pretty impressive. Let's see how Hoopa fares on offense.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 144-170 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 128-151 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 127-150 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 192-227 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 214-252 (60.6 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 512-606 (145 - 171.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Calm down Hoopa, you don't need to be that mean)
When you factor in the LO recoil, Hoopa-U can effectively check Mewtwo despite being slow. I calced for electro ball, but it did less than Ice Beam. Hoopa-U is even tough enough to act as a soft-counter to LO Mewtwo. LO Mewtwo cannot counter Hoopa-U outside of Psyshock, Hyperspace Hole, and Focus Blast. I mention again that the LO recoil doesn't help Mewtwo here. I do understand that LO Mewtwo can run Calm Mind, but according to smogon, Mewtwo-Mega-Y is better suited to 3 attacks + taunt or calm mind.
- Mewtwo-Mega-Y
The "strongest" pokemon around currently, having an offensive base stat of 194. There is no equal raw power from any existing pokemon stat-wise at present. Yes, this variant of the special attacking set is able to set up Calm Mind on this Hoopa-U. It can soft-check choiced Hoopa-U locked into non-Dark STAB apart from Psyshock. Additionally, the only move that CM Mewtwo-Y commonly runs that can knock out this Hoopa-U is Focus Blast or Fire Blast... And if you're trying to OHKO after rocks... Well... Mewtwo-Y has to have 2 calm minds under its belt, which is not at all an easy accomplishment to do in Ubers.
+2 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 260-306 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Focus Blast OHKOs after Stealth Rock at +2, 90.9 - 107%)
+1 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 212-250 (68.1 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This Hoopa-U surprisingly can check Mewtwo-Y, even with a calm mind boost or two.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 156-184 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 270-318 (76.4 - 90%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And Mewtwo-Y can't set up on Hoopa-U to begin with unless it is clear what set Hoopa-U runs, and even then, it's a bad idea if Hoopa-U enters as a check.
- Mewtwo-Mega-X
This one has the best matchup against Hoopa-U, but prior to mega evolving may regret switching into Hoopa-U. Can the Mega-X form act as a counter? Absolutely not unless it's an emergency. Even coming into Focus Blast does at least 33% to the X form, which is enough damage to ease revenge killing for a teammate. Every other move on this Hoopa-U will 2HKO after rocks with T-Bolt doing at least 49.5% as the weakest move besides Focus Blast. Thankfully, Mewtwo-X OHKOs this Hoopa-U from full with Low Kick... No really, that's the only way for standard Mewtwo-X to OHKO Hoopa-U, even after rocks. If this is the Mewtwo-X that doesn't have 144 defense investment...
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 4 Def Hoopa Unbound: 219-258 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only way another move can OHKO this Hoopa-U after rocks is if Mewtwo-X runs an adamant nature and even then it is a roll. This can prove beneficial in some circumstances, such as when Giratina-O is one of Hoopa-U's teammates, as it can force Mewtwo-X to make a decision between predicting a Low Kick counter or beating Hoopa-U with Low Kick.
Hoopa-U vs. Xerneas
This matchup seems a bit unfair; however, Xerneas is just that good. Regardless, there is a difference between unboosted Xerneas and Geomancy boosted Xerneas. Of course Xerneas wins with moonblast. But Geomancy Xerneas seldom runs more than 245 speed. Every other non-defensive set for Xerneas should outspeed this Hoopa-U. Xerneas can check Hoopa-U pretty well. Sadly, Xerneas is not a good counter for Specs Hoopa unless it's a set that runs more speed than 284. Dark Pulse and Focus Blast are doing similar damage to Xerneas. How much will Geomancy Xerneas take from that as a counter?
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 119-141 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 64.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Over 54% since it takes damage upon entry and damage from Hoopa again as Hoopa does outspeed most Geomancy Xerneas. That leaves Xerneas too weak to sweep if it decided to use geomancy.
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 179-211 (40.7 - 48%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 238-281 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Psyshock and Hyperspace Hole)
212 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 268-316 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Uhm... ouch. Geomancy Xerneas doesn't really even appreciate checking Hoopa-U outside of Focus Blast and Dark Pulse. It just takes too much damage from anything else. In fact, unless it is clear what set Hoopa-U is running, Geomancy Xerneas is almost better off avoiding confrontation with Hoopa-U. It's the same with a Mega-Lucario, Geomancy Xerneas does not enter the battle while Lucario is presently out. What's even more bizarre is the fact that Defensive Xerneas and CM Xerneas actually have a chance NOT to OHKO this Hoopa-U with Moonblast even after rocks.
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 272-324 (87.4 - 104.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 272-324 (87.4 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Once again, Hoopa-U is powerful enough to make a setup sweeper refrain from trying to check it or set up on it. Hoopa-U just does so much damage that whatever was in front of it is easy pickings for an appropriate teammate. This is also just the calcs for Specs Hoopa-U, which doesn't seriously need max SpA investment to do its job as a fearsome wallbreaker. I'm done writing out the calcs for Specs Hoopa-U because I've been writing this whole post for over a day now and want to move onto one more Hoopa-U, then generally address other viable sets. If you want to do your own calcs, feel free. But with nearly everything in the tier, Specs Hoopa-U is doing some very noticeable damage and is not nearly as frail as it seems to be.
This Hoopa-U is a generic Life Orb set, but can also run a plate or an expert belt to bluff a choice set. Life Orb can also be ran with a variety of spreads. Hoopa-U has a pretty cool movepool and being able to change moves, unlike a choiced Hoopa-U, potentially makes it harder to switch into. This is even more noticeable for bulkier teams and more defensively oriented builds. I am just going to calc for a mixed set using one stat spread with a few viable moves among the various options Hoopa-U can choose from.
- Psychic/Psyshock/Hyperspace Hole/Zen Headbutt
- Hyperspace Fury/Knock Off/Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot/Ice Punch/Drain Punch/Grass Knot/Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt/Trick Room/Sleep Talk/Other 3rd moveslot coverage option
Hoopa-U as mentioned earlier can run several different spreads depending on preference and moveset. There is also an option for Hoopa-U to hit 280 or 281 speed solely to outspeed neutral natured base 90 speed mons or standard Mega-Mence prior to mega evolving, which allows Hoopa-U some bulk investment or slightly more offense. Psychic STAB is not 100% mandatory, but it is STAB and doesn't take anything away from Hoopa-U in particular. Dark STAB is mandatory and can be physical or special. Knock Off specifically is very interesting because it can remove items from some things and still hits fairly hard otherwise for Hoopa-U. Hyperspace would be used over Knock Off if you wanted to assure the most physical damage from STAB Dark coverage for Hoopa-U. Gunk Shot OHKOs Xerneas and is an overall powerful move with 120 base power and 30% chance to poison foes. Ice Punch can do a number to dragon types and covers Ground Arceus as well. Hidden Power Ice is also an option to hit bulky Mega-Mence harder than Ice Punch. Drain Punch is useful to recover just a little bit of HP and although lacking power for a move, provides useful super effective coverage; Arceus-Norm and Darkrai in particular. Grass Knot is a reliable base 120 power move that ultimately pulverizes Primal-Kyogre, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Rock, and Arceus-Ground. Focus Blast is a dangerously powerful special fighting type move that will hit much harder than drain punch but will not have perfect accuracy. Thunderbolt is primarily for Ho-Oh and Yveltal, but still provides good neutral damage to quite a bit of the common meta. Trick Room can be used for slower teams, and honestly having Hoopa-U in Ubers on a trick room team sounds terrifying. I'm not very sure that Hoopa-U can set up a trick room easily, but there are a few situations that it can, such as checking either Timid Latios or Latios/Latias after they've dropped a draco on something else or such as being put in front of a Blissey or a Lugia. Sleep Talk is actually not as invalid as one might think. Darkrai is able to effectively use Hoopa-U as setup fodder by putting it to sleep. Well, this can bypass that and act as a pretty cool lure for Darkrai, much like the banded Ho-Oh set if I am not mistaken. Hoopa-U is still capable of using other moves I think; yet, these are the most practical moves for Hoopa-U from a general standpoint.
I'm just going to calc for Psychic, Hyperspace Fury, Gunk Shot, Grass Knot, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Thunderbolt primarily, but I will try not to exclude the other possible moves from analysis.
Speed Nature, 32 HP / 160 Atk / 80 SpA / 236 Spe. I'll be using Naive nature to calc, but the nature honestly can change depending on the moveset.
32 HP is run to minimize LO recoil and the 16 EVs taken from SpA just allow Hoopa-U to hit 396 on both attacks while the 16 EVs from speed are optional to begin with as Hoopa-U really only needs to outspeed neutral natured base 90. If desired, Hoopa-U may have 240 Spe EVs by taking 4 EVs from either attack stat to allow Hoopa-U to reach 281 speed in order to outspeed standard dragon dance Salamence prior to mega evolution. 32 HP also lets Hoopa survive hits much better than without, such as E-killer's LO Extreme Speed, at least one of the STAB moves from Mega-Diancie depending on Hoopa's Nature, and common Support Arceus forms.
Hoopa-U vs. Xerneas
Life Orb Hoopa-U is quite obvious after Hoopa-U makes a move. Even knowing Hoopa-U has a life orb, finding a counter is not easy. I don't think it can be stated enough that Hoopa-U is a terrifying wallbreaker. Even when you know its set, there are limited counters for it. And Hoopa's job might not be to clean or sweep, but Hoopa-U's presence cannot under any circumstances be underestimated. Hoopa-U's insanely strong power is enough to break any wall and is capable of leaving the opposition in a weakened state that other teammates can very much use to their advantage. Lucario was used as a comparison. Sure it's BP does at least half to boosted standard Xerneas. But that doesn't always stop Xerneas. And nobody with their head on straight would allow their Xerneas to check Lucario. Hoopa-U doesn't take up a mega slot for one thing and is quite capable of keeping most Geomancy Xerneas away as long as it is presently out before Xerneas. Why? Well, most Geo Xerneas do not run more than 245 speed because they quite rightly enjoy making good use of the naturally high bulk and fatness. Xerneas can come out to check Hoopa-U, but unless it's running more speed than Hoopa-U, it will be left with a gigantic crater where it's HP once was if not outright OHKOing Xerneas with Gunk Shot. If Xerneas is left with the huge gap in it's HP, then it is much more easily picked off by priority users and eases the pressure on the role of checks to boosted Xerneas. Even in the scenario that Geo Xerneas is running more speed than Hoopa-U, setting up a geomancy could be unwise due to the threat of Gunk Shot and Psyshock/Zen Headbutt.
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 382-450 (87 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (18.8% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 191-226 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 216-255 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Regardless of hazards, this is some serious damage Xerneas will be taking. The less HP Xerneas has after it gets a geomancy off, the easier it is to wear down and or revenge kill with appropriate checks. And remember that with more speed comes less bulk, making Hoopa's job at preventing Xerneas from Geomancy-ing up far easier. non-defensive non-geomancy Xerneas win the 1v1 and check with ease, but I very rarely see anybody use Xerneas without Power Herb+Geomancy. Also, when Geomancy Xerneas does outspeed Hoopa-U and does the right thing by using Moonblast, it can be checked by something else much more easily because it will not have boosted yet. Essentially, Hoopa-U is going to have the role of trading things 1 for 1 with the true statement of Hoopa-U not having a counter. Hoopa's sheer strength allows it to make a teammate's job far easier to accomplish.
Hoopa-U vs. Darkrai
IMO, Darkrai is probably one of the best checks to Hoopa-U because it can put Hoopa to sleep and set up nasty plot with relative ease. Refer back to the choice specs calc tab to see the explanation. However, Hoopa-U isn't entirely useless against Darkrai if it opts to run sleep talk, which it can use as a Darkrai lure. Darkrai does not want to be hit by any of Hoopa-U's moves bar a psychic STAB.
(note: when running sleep talk as a lure, Hoopa-U should not also have psychic STAB.)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 255-302 (90.7 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (or Darkrai's LO recoil)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 204-240 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (same damage for any elemental Punch)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 155-182 (55.1 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 138-162 (49.1 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
These moves do quite the number on Darkrai. Still, Hoopa-U does need to run sleep talk if it wants to be able to beat Darkrai without luck by waking up the next turn after being put to sleep.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Groudon
- Support P-Don
As discussed in the Specs tab, all standard P-Don variants cannot risk switching into Hoopa-U. Hoopa-U does outspeed the common variants and even the faster ones which seldom run positive speed natures.
Even in the case that P-Don does act as a counter successfully (switching in on a physical hit or an electric coverage move), Hoopa-U has a way to seriously chomp away at its health.
0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 327-385 (105.8 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 306-361 (99 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 273-322 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 163-193 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 273-322 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 136-161 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for dark pulse, focus blast, and hyperspace hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It's pretty clear that Support P-Don doesn't at all enjoy countering Hoopa-U. Even coming into the right move will still allow mixed LO Hoopa-U to bop it on the head for good damage. P-Don is more valuable than that honestly.
- Rock Polish P-Don
Yes, P-Don can set up a rock polish, but if it does, then (non-Hasty) Hoopa-U leaves it weakened, also forcing P-Don to use Precipice Blades (or Fire Punch if P-Don runs it) to assure an OHKO after rocks.
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 232-273 (75 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 156-185 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (not Hoopa's best option due to defense drop)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 185-218 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to dark pulse, hyperspace hole, and focus blast)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 125-148 (34 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Zen Headbutt)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 208-246 (56.6 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-U is very strong and should not be underestimated. It can do this much damage to this variant, meaning Rock Polish P-Don isn't very happy to check LO Hoopa-U because Hoopa-U leaves it easier to revenge kill for a teammate with priority or enough bulk to take on P-Don as a check. (I'm not sure of what mon is capable of doing the latter though).
- Mixed Rock Polish P-Don
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 294-346 (95.1 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Precipice Blades OHKOs.
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 173-204 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 183-216 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to dark pulse, focus blast, and hyperspace hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 140-165 (41 - 48.3%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 207-243 (60.7 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Again, P-Don would rather check something else that is a little... less powerful than LO Hoopa-U because of the damage it can end up taking from Hoopa-U. I cannot stress the fact that Hoopa-U has the capability of breaking through any wall enough. I cannot stress enough the point that Hoopa-U will punish anything trying to use it as fodder bar Darkrai (unless Hoopa-U has sleep talk) to the point that an appropriate teammate will have a significantly greater chance of checking/revenge killing successfully. I cannot stress enough that even in Ubers, there is not really a true counter for Hoopa-U. This thing is incredibly dangerous.
- Paradance P-Don is similar to the other variants in terms of damage intake and output for Hoopa-U.
Salamence-Mega vs. Hoopa-U
- Standard Dragon Dance
If Mega-Mence decides to check Hoopa-U and has not mega evolved yet, the calc will show -1 for Hoopa-U's physical moves due to Intimidate, otherwise they will calc for Mence already in mega form.
Mence has to use STAB to OHKO Hoopa-U. Please remember that the LO Hoopa-U I am calculating with is running 236 Spe Timid, which speed ties with this standard Salamence variant prior to mega evolution. Also remember that you can take out 4 EVs from either attack stat and put that into speed to outspeed this standard variant (the difference in damage output by doing that is minimal, but does change the percentages slightly for a few certain things).
Mence has to use STAB to get the OHKO on Hoopa.
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 196-231 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 390-460 (126.2 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 125-148 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 255-302 (72.6 - 86%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 149-177 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 231-273 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Focus Blast)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 207-243 (58.9 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Hyperspace Hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 155-182 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I don't think this Mence can easily set up on LO Hoopa-U. In fact, just like every other sweeper that's been calculated with so far, setting up against Hoopa-U is risky and not getting the KO on Hoopa-U costs a great amount of HP, which gives Hoopa's teammates an easier time checking and revenge killing. And again, I just don't really see safe counters to Hoopa-U at all, especially before Hoopa-U has clearly had its set identified.
- Bulky Mence
0 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 298-352 (96.4 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Hoopa-U will also die from LO recoil in this case)
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 103-122 (26.2 - 31%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 122-146 (31 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Other physical damaging attacks do similar damage bar ice punch.
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 203-244 (51.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 231-273 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 207-243 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 307-364 (78.1 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 153-181 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mixed LO Hoopa-U does outspeed this variant prior to mega evolution with 236 Spe EVs. It is still dangerous for Bulky Mega Mence to try and setup on Hoopa-U because it will be left with very little HP even though it can recover. Strong priority users and already solid checks (Multiscale Lugia for example) are much more able to pick Mence off after having Hoopa-U put such a huge dent into its health. It's a tough pill to swallow, but Hoopa-U is not to be trifled with. It will break anything and everything that it can. Hoopa-U's very presence exudes offensive pressure.
This Hoopa-U variant can check the Lati Twins better than the Specs variant. This Hoopa-U demolishes a majority of special attackers in the metagame. LO Hoopa-U checks both standard Ho-Oh variants and outspeeds all Ho-Oh without a positive speed nature (while running more speed than Hoopa-U as well)
After just a little prior damage, Hoopa-U can act as a wonderful check to many common mons in the meta. (I'm seriously tired of all these calculations. I've been at it for about 24 hours total now)
The same conclusion reached nearly every single time:
1) Hoopa-U has no true counter until its set is clearly revealed, and even then is very difficult to find a good counter for
2) Hoopa-U does outspeed quite a few of the common bulkier parts of the meta and does outspeed neutral base 90 and can outspeed Bulky Mega-Mence and standard Dragon Dance Mega-Mence prior to mega evolution.
3) Hoopa-U is capable of breaking through any wall.
4) Hoopa-U does enough damage to anything using it as fodder that an appropriate teammate and or strong priority user will have a much easier job revenge killing and or checking.
5) Hoopa-U is quite able to challenge special attackers.
Honestly, Hoopa-Unbound is more than deserving of a place in Ubers. It may not be meta-defining, but it is absolutely not something that won't make a difference on teams. Hoopa's raw power is enough for it to make a difference on a team as a near impossible-to-counter wallbreaker.
- Psychic/Psyshock/Hyperspace Hole/Zen Headbutt
- Hyperspace Fury/Knock Off/Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot/Ice Punch/Drain Punch/Grass Knot/Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt/Trick Room/Sleep Talk/Other 3rd moveslot coverage option
Hoopa-U as mentioned earlier can run several different spreads depending on preference and moveset. There is also an option for Hoopa-U to hit 280 or 281 speed solely to outspeed neutral natured base 90 speed mons or standard Mega-Mence prior to mega evolving, which allows Hoopa-U some bulk investment or slightly more offense. Psychic STAB is not 100% mandatory, but it is STAB and doesn't take anything away from Hoopa-U in particular. Dark STAB is mandatory and can be physical or special. Knock Off specifically is very interesting because it can remove items from some things and still hits fairly hard otherwise for Hoopa-U. Hyperspace would be used over Knock Off if you wanted to assure the most physical damage from STAB Dark coverage for Hoopa-U. Gunk Shot OHKOs Xerneas and is an overall powerful move with 120 base power and 30% chance to poison foes. Ice Punch can do a number to dragon types and covers Ground Arceus as well. Hidden Power Ice is also an option to hit bulky Mega-Mence harder than Ice Punch. Drain Punch is useful to recover just a little bit of HP and although lacking power for a move, provides useful super effective coverage; Arceus-Norm and Darkrai in particular. Grass Knot is a reliable base 120 power move that ultimately pulverizes Primal-Kyogre, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Rock, and Arceus-Ground. Focus Blast is a dangerously powerful special fighting type move that will hit much harder than drain punch but will not have perfect accuracy. Thunderbolt is primarily for Ho-Oh and Yveltal, but still provides good neutral damage to quite a bit of the common meta. Trick Room can be used for slower teams, and honestly having Hoopa-U in Ubers on a trick room team sounds terrifying. I'm not very sure that Hoopa-U can set up a trick room easily, but there are a few situations that it can, such as checking either Timid Latios or Latios/Latias after they've dropped a draco on something else or such as being put in front of a Blissey or a Lugia. Sleep Talk is actually not as invalid as one might think. Darkrai is able to effectively use Hoopa-U as setup fodder by putting it to sleep. Well, this can bypass that and act as a pretty cool lure for Darkrai, much like the banded Ho-Oh set if I am not mistaken. Hoopa-U is still capable of using other moves I think; yet, these are the most practical moves for Hoopa-U from a general standpoint.
I'm just going to calc for Psychic, Hyperspace Fury, Gunk Shot, Grass Knot, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Thunderbolt primarily, but I will try not to exclude the other possible moves from analysis.
Speed Nature, 32 HP / 160 Atk / 80 SpA / 236 Spe. I'll be using Naive nature to calc, but the nature honestly can change depending on the moveset.
32 HP is run to minimize LO recoil and the 16 EVs taken from SpA just allow Hoopa-U to hit 396 on both attacks while the 16 EVs from speed are optional to begin with as Hoopa-U really only needs to outspeed neutral natured base 90. If desired, Hoopa-U may have 240 Spe EVs by taking 4 EVs from either attack stat to allow Hoopa-U to reach 281 speed in order to outspeed standard dragon dance Salamence prior to mega evolution. 32 HP also lets Hoopa survive hits much better than without, such as E-killer's LO Extreme Speed, at least one of the STAB moves from Mega-Diancie depending on Hoopa's Nature, and common Support Arceus forms.
Hoopa-U vs. Xerneas
Life Orb Hoopa-U is quite obvious after Hoopa-U makes a move. Even knowing Hoopa-U has a life orb, finding a counter is not easy. I don't think it can be stated enough that Hoopa-U is a terrifying wallbreaker. Even when you know its set, there are limited counters for it. And Hoopa's job might not be to clean or sweep, but Hoopa-U's presence cannot under any circumstances be underestimated. Hoopa-U's insanely strong power is enough to break any wall and is capable of leaving the opposition in a weakened state that other teammates can very much use to their advantage. Lucario was used as a comparison. Sure it's BP does at least half to boosted standard Xerneas. But that doesn't always stop Xerneas. And nobody with their head on straight would allow their Xerneas to check Lucario. Hoopa-U doesn't take up a mega slot for one thing and is quite capable of keeping most Geomancy Xerneas away as long as it is presently out before Xerneas. Why? Well, most Geo Xerneas do not run more than 245 speed because they quite rightly enjoy making good use of the naturally high bulk and fatness. Xerneas can come out to check Hoopa-U, but unless it's running more speed than Hoopa-U, it will be left with a gigantic crater where it's HP once was if not outright OHKOing Xerneas with Gunk Shot. If Xerneas is left with the huge gap in it's HP, then it is much more easily picked off by priority users and eases the pressure on the role of checks to boosted Xerneas. Even in the scenario that Geo Xerneas is running more speed than Hoopa-U, setting up a geomancy could be unwise due to the threat of Gunk Shot and Psyshock/Zen Headbutt.
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 382-450 (87 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (18.8% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 191-226 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 216-255 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Regardless of hazards, this is some serious damage Xerneas will be taking. The less HP Xerneas has after it gets a geomancy off, the easier it is to wear down and or revenge kill with appropriate checks. And remember that with more speed comes less bulk, making Hoopa's job at preventing Xerneas from Geomancy-ing up far easier. non-defensive non-geomancy Xerneas win the 1v1 and check with ease, but I very rarely see anybody use Xerneas without Power Herb+Geomancy. Also, when Geomancy Xerneas does outspeed Hoopa-U and does the right thing by using Moonblast, it can be checked by something else much more easily because it will not have boosted yet. Essentially, Hoopa-U is going to have the role of trading things 1 for 1 with the true statement of Hoopa-U not having a counter. Hoopa's sheer strength allows it to make a teammate's job far easier to accomplish.
Hoopa-U vs. Darkrai
IMO, Darkrai is probably one of the best checks to Hoopa-U because it can put Hoopa to sleep and set up nasty plot with relative ease. Refer back to the choice specs calc tab to see the explanation. However, Hoopa-U isn't entirely useless against Darkrai if it opts to run sleep talk, which it can use as a Darkrai lure. Darkrai does not want to be hit by any of Hoopa-U's moves bar a psychic STAB.
(note: when running sleep talk as a lure, Hoopa-U should not also have psychic STAB.)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 255-302 (90.7 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (or Darkrai's LO recoil)
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 204-240 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (same damage for any elemental Punch)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 155-182 (55.1 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 138-162 (49.1 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
These moves do quite the number on Darkrai. Still, Hoopa-U does need to run sleep talk if it wants to be able to beat Darkrai without luck by waking up the next turn after being put to sleep.
Hoopa-U vs. Primal-Groudon
- Support P-Don
As discussed in the Specs tab, all standard P-Don variants cannot risk switching into Hoopa-U. Hoopa-U does outspeed the common variants and even the faster ones which seldom run positive speed natures.
Even in the case that P-Don does act as a counter successfully (switching in on a physical hit or an electric coverage move), Hoopa-U has a way to seriously chomp away at its health.
0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 327-385 (105.8 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 306-361 (99 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 273-322 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 163-193 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 273-322 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 136-161 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage for dark pulse, focus blast, and hyperspace hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It's pretty clear that Support P-Don doesn't at all enjoy countering Hoopa-U. Even coming into the right move will still allow mixed LO Hoopa-U to bop it on the head for good damage. P-Don is more valuable than that honestly.
- Rock Polish P-Don
Yes, P-Don can set up a rock polish, but if it does, then (non-Hasty) Hoopa-U leaves it weakened, also forcing P-Don to use Precipice Blades (or Fire Punch if P-Don runs it) to assure an OHKO after rocks.
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 232-273 (75 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 156-185 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (not Hoopa's best option due to defense drop)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 185-218 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to dark pulse, hyperspace hole, and focus blast)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 125-148 (34 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Zen Headbutt)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 208-246 (56.6 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-U is very strong and should not be underestimated. It can do this much damage to this variant, meaning Rock Polish P-Don isn't very happy to check LO Hoopa-U because Hoopa-U leaves it easier to revenge kill for a teammate with priority or enough bulk to take on P-Don as a check. (I'm not sure of what mon is capable of doing the latter though).
- Mixed Rock Polish P-Don
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Hoopa Unbound in Harsh Sunshine: 294-346 (95.1 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Precipice Blades OHKOs.
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 173-204 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 183-216 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to dark pulse, focus blast, and hyperspace hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Primal Groudon: 140-165 (41 - 48.3%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 104 SpD Primal Groudon: 207-243 (60.7 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Again, P-Don would rather check something else that is a little... less powerful than LO Hoopa-U because of the damage it can end up taking from Hoopa-U. I cannot stress the fact that Hoopa-U has the capability of breaking through any wall enough. I cannot stress enough the point that Hoopa-U will punish anything trying to use it as fodder bar Darkrai (unless Hoopa-U has sleep talk) to the point that an appropriate teammate will have a significantly greater chance of checking/revenge killing successfully. I cannot stress enough that even in Ubers, there is not really a true counter for Hoopa-U. This thing is incredibly dangerous.
- Paradance P-Don is similar to the other variants in terms of damage intake and output for Hoopa-U.
Salamence-Mega vs. Hoopa-U
- Standard Dragon Dance
If Mega-Mence decides to check Hoopa-U and has not mega evolved yet, the calc will show -1 for Hoopa-U's physical moves due to Intimidate, otherwise they will calc for Mence already in mega form.
Mence has to use STAB to OHKO Hoopa-U. Please remember that the LO Hoopa-U I am calculating with is running 236 Spe Timid, which speed ties with this standard Salamence variant prior to mega evolution. Also remember that you can take out 4 EVs from either attack stat and put that into speed to outspeed this standard variant (the difference in damage output by doing that is minimal, but does change the percentages slightly for a few certain things).
Mence has to use STAB to get the OHKO on Hoopa.
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 196-231 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 390-460 (126.2 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 125-148 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 255-302 (72.6 - 86%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 149-177 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 231-273 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Focus Blast)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 207-243 (58.9 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (similar damage to Hyperspace Hole)
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 155-182 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I don't think this Mence can easily set up on LO Hoopa-U. In fact, just like every other sweeper that's been calculated with so far, setting up against Hoopa-U is risky and not getting the KO on Hoopa-U costs a great amount of HP, which gives Hoopa's teammates an easier time checking and revenge killing. And again, I just don't really see safe counters to Hoopa-U at all, especially before Hoopa-U has clearly had its set identified.
- Bulky Mence
0 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 298-352 (96.4 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Hoopa-U will also die from LO recoil in this case)
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 103-122 (26.2 - 31%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 122-146 (31 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Other physical damaging attacks do similar damage bar ice punch.
-1 160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 203-244 (51.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 231-273 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
80 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 207-243 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 307-364 (78.1 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Salamence: 153-181 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mixed LO Hoopa-U does outspeed this variant prior to mega evolution with 236 Spe EVs. It is still dangerous for Bulky Mega Mence to try and setup on Hoopa-U because it will be left with very little HP even though it can recover. Strong priority users and already solid checks (Multiscale Lugia for example) are much more able to pick Mence off after having Hoopa-U put such a huge dent into its health. It's a tough pill to swallow, but Hoopa-U is not to be trifled with. It will break anything and everything that it can. Hoopa-U's very presence exudes offensive pressure.
This Hoopa-U variant can check the Lati Twins better than the Specs variant. This Hoopa-U demolishes a majority of special attackers in the metagame. LO Hoopa-U checks both standard Ho-Oh variants and outspeeds all Ho-Oh without a positive speed nature (while running more speed than Hoopa-U as well)
After just a little prior damage, Hoopa-U can act as a wonderful check to many common mons in the meta. (I'm seriously tired of all these calculations. I've been at it for about 24 hours total now)
The same conclusion reached nearly every single time:
1) Hoopa-U has no true counter until its set is clearly revealed, and even then is very difficult to find a good counter for
2) Hoopa-U does outspeed quite a few of the common bulkier parts of the meta and does outspeed neutral base 90 and can outspeed Bulky Mega-Mence and standard Dragon Dance Mega-Mence prior to mega evolution.
3) Hoopa-U is capable of breaking through any wall.
4) Hoopa-U does enough damage to anything using it as fodder that an appropriate teammate and or strong priority user will have a much easier job revenge killing and or checking.
5) Hoopa-U is quite able to challenge special attackers.
Honestly, Hoopa-Unbound is more than deserving of a place in Ubers. It may not be meta-defining, but it is absolutely not something that won't make a difference on teams. Hoopa's raw power is enough for it to make a difference on a team as a near impossible-to-counter wallbreaker.
Hoopa-U is capable of running choice band, life orb, choice specs, no item (magician), choice scarf (revenge killer), expert belt, plates, and even possibly an assault vest. Additionally, Hoopa-U does not always have to have maximum offensive investment and only needs to outspeed the neutral natured base 90 tier and or standard dragon dance salamence prior to mega evolution. This allows Hoopa-U to invest a little more into bulk, which turns out to have some benefits. Hoopa-U can use lure moves, such as sleep talk for Darkrai. Hoopa-U is extremely difficult to counter and has a way to do huge damage to anything in the metagame, especially with hazard support. It isn't just a mon that beats stall. Hoopa-U is very threatening for bulkier teams as well. Hoopa-U also can be ran on a trick room team as something I'd call a real monster. I know trick room is uncommon in Ubers, but that doesn't mean that a good trick room team can't exist. Hoopa-U is also one of the few pokemon in the tier with a STAB Knock Off, the others being Yveltal and Sableye-Mega. Hoopa-U is pretty versatile as well. I highly advise that we all take a moment to think out the practicality of Hoopa-U in the tier and not just underrate it. Do not underestimate the power of Hoopa-Unbound.
B- Rank or C+ Rank.
i actually appreciate all the effort you put in your post but that theorymonning does not represent reality at all.
it was never considered too good vs offense and here in ubers that matchup got even worse. also, its not as good of an balance breaker as some people think it was.
it cant force out as much mons in ubers as it could in OU so the "come in and spam stab" mentality does not work.
role compression is important in oras ubers so why use hoopa-u, which pretty much adds no utility to your team other than some mediocre "wall breaking"? its not like we dont have good wall breakers already ._.
maybe a somewhat relevant replay or a good team with it can change my mind but right now im absolutely convinced it sucks.
Hoopa-U to D
edit:
because they actually have a purpose and qualities that sets them apart from other mons ..
this is a very bad comparison as deoxys-a mgar and darkrai have a good speed tier combined with good coverage, pogre isnt frail at all and deo-s is one of the best HO leads. im sorry if i sound angry but yeah, hoopa does nothing
it was never considered too good vs offense and here in ubers that matchup got even worse. also, its not as good of an balance breaker as some people think it was.
it cant force out as much mons in ubers as it could in OU so the "come in and spam stab" mentality does not work.
role compression is important in oras ubers so why use hoopa-u, which pretty much adds no utility to your team other than some mediocre "wall breaking"? its not like we dont have good wall breakers already ._.
maybe a somewhat relevant replay or a good team with it can change my mind but right now im absolutely convinced it sucks.
Hoopa-U to D
edit:
because they actually have a purpose and qualities that sets them apart from other mons ..
this is a very bad comparison as deoxys-a mgar and darkrai have a good speed tier combined with good coverage, pogre isnt frail at all and deo-s is one of the best HO leads. im sorry if i sound angry but yeah, hoopa does nothing
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Idk why someone would ever use this unless for some flashy rmt.
inb4AntacoolOrShrang
Anyways, Hoopa-U has compression issues, and has wallbreaking competition for other Psychich and Dark Types, like Mewtwo and Darkrai.
So, now that Volcanion's been released, does anyone have any thoughts on it?
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