Other Metagames Analysis Discussion

There is a Small Changes thread, but the purpose of this thread is for discussion about sets after they've been uploaded. Feel free to talk about if you'd like a set on-site, but be sure you have evidence.

Nobody should post in this thread as we don't have anything uploaded, it's for use at a later date.
 
Not sure, I think both versions of shift gear are better than band right now, just because of the prevalence of Lando-t and other checks, and setup set's ability to muscle through resists
 
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Hi, so I think the deoxys-speed aaa analysis definitely needs to be changed, specifically the offensive set. I don't like download at all, Sheer Force is so much better than Download. SF Deoxys-s is an insanely good cleaner due to it's sanic speed and very high damage output. Now you're thinking that SF Deo-s isn't able to break Chansey, right? Well that is most certainly not true, as Deoxys-Speed can afford to run Nasty Plot to tear up offensive and defensive teams alike, at any point in the game. People might thing that I'm overhyping this thing, but it is an incredible pokemon that has won me an absurd amount of games.

Here's the set btw:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (I'll find a better spread)
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

I would be willing to write the analysis, and I think I'm allowed to right now since megagar is in gp?
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 247-291 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 161-190 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 73-86 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 100-118 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Braviary: 338-400 (99.1 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 253-300 (68.1 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 247-291 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, now that I think about it, modest is probably the better nature by far. This is an amazing set that definitely deserves an analysis.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Hi, so I think the deoxys-speed aaa analysis definitely needs to be changed, specifically the offensive set. I don't like download at all, Sheer Force is so much better than Download. SF Deoxys-s is an insanely good cleaner due to it's sanic speed and very high damage output. Now you're thinking that SF Deo-s isn't able to break Chansey, right? Well that is most certainly not true, as Deoxys-Speed can afford to run Nasty Plot to tear up offensive and defensive teams alike, at any point in the game. People might thing that I'm overhyping this thing, but it is an incredible pokemon that has won me an absurd amount of games.

Here's the set btw:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (I'll find a better spread)
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

I would be willing to write the analysis, and I think I'm allowed to right now since megagar is in gp?
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 247-291 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 161-190 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 73-86 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 100-118 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Braviary: 338-400 (99.1 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 253-300 (68.1 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 247-291 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, now that I think about it, modest is probably the better nature by far. This is an amazing set that definitely deserves an analysis.
Kl4ng Adrian Marin aesf TheCommadore
 
The Download set is mostly its best offensive set for its ability to tear most teams apart thanks to its powerful mixed coverage and should stay as the main offensive set in my opinion, though I wouldn't really be opposed to a Sheer Force Deo-S analysis since it's got a solid niche as a very fast set-up sweeper despite its weakness to prio.

While I'm posting here I definitely think that Mega Rayquaza should get a Choice Specs Aerilate set in Balanced Hackmons, as its raw power allows it to dismantle almost any defensive core better than almost any other Pokemon can. If not its own set, it should at least get a very strong OO mention as at the moment Choice Specs isn't even mentioned there despite it turning Rayquaza into what is arguably the metagame's best wallbreaker.
 
The Download set is mostly its best offensive set for its ability to tear most teams apart thanks to its powerful mixed coverage and should stay as the main offensive set in my opinion, though I wouldn't really be opposed to a Sheer Force Deo-S analysis since it's got a solid niche as a very fast set-up sweeper despite its weakness to prio.

While I'm posting here I definitely think that Mega Rayquaza should get a Choice Specs Aerilate set in Balanced Hackmons, as its raw power allows it to dismantle almost any defensive core better than almost any other Pokemon can. If not its own set, it should at least get a very strong OO mention as at the moment Choice Specs isn't even mentioned there despite it turning Rayquaza into what is arguably the metagame's best wallbreaker.
I believe that the BH QC will probably give the same reply as for scarf aerilate; something along the lines of that it isn't common enough to merit its own set, but may deserve a mention in the Other Options.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
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http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/doublade/almost_any_ability/

I feel a mention should be given to Bulletproof, whether its on the main set (it could easily fit there as simply another ability) or as an OO mention. It allows Doublade to basically get an immunity to Ghost-type moves as the only really common one, Shadow Ball, is blocked by it. This allows it to counter most Gengar and Hoopa for stall, two threatening Pokemon. It's an outstanding user as both of the listed 'mons have moves to get past other Pokemon with Bulletproof, most notably Sludge Wave for Gengar. Additionally, it can immediately remove Hoopa from the matchup, and do heavy damage to Gengar, as it gets Pursuit to trap them.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/doublade/almost_any_ability/

I feel a mention should be given to Bulletproof, whether its on the main set (it could easily fit there as simply another ability) or as an OO mention. It allows Doublade to basically get an immunity to Ghost-type moves as the only really common one, Shadow Ball, is blocked by it. This allows it to counter most Gengar and Hoopa for stall, two threatening Pokemon. It's an outstanding user as both of the listed 'mons have moves to get past other Pokemon with Bulletproof, most notably Sludge Wave for Gengar. Additionally, it can immediately remove Hoopa from the matchup, and do heavy damage to Gengar, as it gets Pursuit to trap them.
Added this to OO. Since no other abilities got large mentions, I just added it to the part where it seemed just. If AAA QC wants to put it on the set / have a larger mention (Kl4ng) they can feel free to say so.
 
The Download set is mostly its best offensive set for its ability to tear most teams apart thanks to its powerful mixed coverage and should stay as the main offensive set in my opinion, though I wouldn't really be opposed to a Sheer Force Deo-S analysis since it's got a solid niche as a very fast set-up sweeper despite its weakness to prio.

While I'm posting here I definitely think that Mega Rayquaza should get a Choice Specs Aerilate set in Balanced Hackmons, as its raw power allows it to dismantle almost any defensive core better than almost any other Pokemon can. If not its own set, it should at least get a very strong OO mention as at the moment Choice Specs isn't even mentioned there despite it turning Rayquaza into what is arguably the metagame's best wallbreaker.
Up to E4 Flint Uselesscrab Piccolo Daimao.
 
Kl4ng is right, it definitely deserves at least some kind of mention. I'm leaning toward the "strong OO" choice for now because while Specs sets obliterate a lot of stall teams, they can be mostly useless against offense thanks to Mega Rayquaza's fairly low speed tier.

edit: then again, I haven't personally used Specs before, so anyone can feel free to contradict me.
 
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Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Some comments on Mega Mewtwo X's analysis:

Lum Berry should definitely be added onto OO; it blocks Spore, which is nice, and also heals off Burns and Paralysis from bulky walls that try to cripple you (Giratina, Registeel, No Guards)

I dont like V-Create on the set. Precipice Blades deals a lot of damage to most of the relevant Pokemon that V-Create hits; LO 252 Precipice Blades already OHKOs 252/252+ Registeel, and there are no other common Steel-types that invest more in physical bulk (besides Mega Aggron but they dont usually run anything that can hurt you significantly) V-Create also takes priority's spot, and I think priority is a heck of a lot more useful. Sucker Punch checks MMY, Ghosts, and Latios easily, while Extreme Speed checks -ates. Draco is questionable as well in my opinion, but at least it checks Giratina, Latios, and RayMega.

Also this is a smaller change but moves should be listed in order of useability, with utility moves at the end, so the set should look like:

Move 1: Bolt Strike / Fusion Bolt
Move 2: Precipice Blades / Thousand Arrows
Move 3: Sucker Punch / Extreme Speed / Draco Meteor
Move 4: King's Shield

Bolt Strike puts out insane, reliable power, and should be used as a general attacking move as few common Pokemon in the meta resist it. PBlades is next because, aside from the Steel-types it hits, Bolt Strike often deals enough damage (252 non-LO OHKOs Mega Diancie and Mega Gengar) Situational coverage moves comes next, with Sucker Punch first because it checks a lot more relevant Pokemon than Extreme Speed (which is not always a necessity because King's Shield lets you shrug off an ESpeed.) Finally, KS, the staple.
 
Some comments on Mega Mewtwo X's analysis:

Lum Berry should definitely be added onto OO; it blocks Spore, which is nice, and also heals off Burns and Paralysis from bulky walls that try to cripple you (Giratina, Registeel, No Guards)
I'll abstain from answering this because I'm not really sure about it but don't have a good counterargument

I dont like V-Create on the set. Precipice Blades deals a lot of damage to most of the relevant Pokemon that V-Create hits; LO 252 Precipice Blades already OHKOs 252/252+ Registeel, and there are no other common Steel-types that invest more in physical bulk (besides Mega Aggron but they dont usually run anything that can hurt you significantly) V-Create also takes priority's spot, and I think priority is a heck of a lot more useful. Sucker Punch checks MMY, Ghosts, and Latios easily, while Extreme Speed checks -ates. Draco is questionable as well in my opinion, but at least it checks Giratina, Latios, and RayMega.
V-C is one of Protean MMX's best moves. It's not just for SE coverage (that is useful but it's not the primary goal). Protean V-Create kills tons of things that don't resist it, which can't be said about Precipice. There's a huge difference in base power. For instance,
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mega Audino: 376-445 (91.9 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mega Audino: 253-298 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 480-565 (108.3 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 320-378 (72.2 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Also, with V-C, there is no predicting involved, but with Precipice, your opponent might switch into a Flying pokemon, which is bad.

Yes, priority such as Sucker Punch (not as much ESpeed, more on this in a bit) is useful, but Protean MMX really likes its wallbreaking abilities that V-C gives it. Also, Precipice does not allow MMX to hit Flying types. It should not be removed from the analysis. As for Draco, it's incredibly useful against Fur Coat Gira, one of Protean MMX's primary switchins.
As for ESpeed checking -ates, that's what King's Shield is for. After KS, none of the ate users can do significant amounts of damage because MMX is now steel type (and depending on what move they used first turn, they might be -2 atk). ESpeed's primary purpose is for revenging setup sweepers, not beating -ates. The moves on this set are perfectly fine and have been proven to be viable.


Also this is a smaller change but moves should be listed in order of useability, with utility moves at the end, so the set should look like:
No objection here, except keep the old moves obviously.

Move 1: Bolt Strike / Fusion Bolt
Move 2: Precipice Blades / Thousand Arrows
Move 3: V-Create / Sucker Punch / Extreme Speed / Draco Meteor
Move 4: King's Shield

Bolt Strike puts out insane, reliable power, and should be used as a general attacking move as few common Pokemon in the meta resist it. Giratina is a very important resist. Also, Bolt Strike's accuracy leaves a lot to be desired for a general attacking move. PBlades is next because, aside from the Steel-types it hits, Bolt Strike often deals enough damage (252 non-LO OHKOs Mega Diancie and Mega Gengar) Situational coverage moves comes next, with Sucker Punch first because it checks a lot more relevant Pokemon than Extreme Speed (which is not always a necessity because King's Shield lets you shrug off an ESpeed.) Finally, KS, the staple. I basically responded to this above.
Bolded my responses
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Bolded my responses
But your calculations are all +Atk, which isn't listed as a suggestion on the analysis:

"Not only does Protean render an Attack-boosting nature unnecessary, but the occasional Mega Rayquaza, Mega Diancie, and Mega Gengar running Speed-boosting natures can severely put a dent in Mega Mewtwo X without it."

... Which is a very fair point. (By the way, I'm making an SCMS edit to remove Mega Diancie's mention there, because 130 Spe 252 is still faster than 110 Spe 252+, and to fix that line in general because it's so grammatically incorrect) So, assuming you follow the analysis, the calcs become:

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 437-515 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mega Audino: 343-406 (83.8 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Still not bad, but you've lost the OHKO on MAudino, and no Arceus is staying in to confront MMX without KS.



Also, my argument is that Bolt Strike is sufficient as a go-to attack, while Precipice is enough for Steels. Flyers that switch into Precipice will be hit harder by Bolt Strike anyway (especially Mega Ray, which VCreate doesnt KO). Bolt Strike is also continuously spammable, allowing MMX to clean up very easily; sure, it might not have the initial power of V-Create, but you can use it continuously, and with King's Shield and Sucker Punch, the small difference in power isn't all that noticeable anyway. And again, if you use V-Create, you lose the ability to use said Sucker Punch, which is incredibly useful for revenging the most common non-ate special Attackers you'll face (MMY, Gengar, Latios, the trifecta)
 
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But your calculations are all +Atk, which isn't listed as a suggestion on the analysis:

"Not only does Protean render an Attack-boosting nature unnecessary, but the occasional Mega Rayquaza, Mega Diancie, and Mega Gengar running Speed-boosting natures can severely put a dent in Mega Mewtwo X without it."

... Which is a very fair point. (By the way, I'm making an SCMS edit to remove Mega Diancie's mention there, because 130 Spe 252 is still faster than 110 Spe 252+, and to fix that line in general because it's so grammatically incorrect) So, assuming you follow the analysis, the calcs become:

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 437-515 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mega Audino: 343-406 (83.8 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Still not bad, but you've lost the OHKO on MAudino, and no Arceus is staying in to confront MMX without KS.



Also, my argument is that Bolt Strike is sufficient as a go-to attack, while Precipice is enough for Steels. Flyers that switch into Precipice will be hit harder by Bolt Strike anyway (especially Mega Ray, which VCreate doesnt KO). Bolt Strike is also continuously spammable, allowing MMX to clean up very easily; sure, it might not have the initial power of V-Create, but you can use it continuously, and with King's Shield and Sucker Punch, the small difference in power isn't all that noticeable anyway. And again, if you use V-Create, you lose the ability to use said Sucker Punch, which is incredibly useful for revenging the most common non-ate special Attackers you'll face (MMY, Gengar, Latios, the trifecta)
Oh right, forgot that the analysis was +Spe. Anyways, if Audino is specially defensive or rocks are set up, or Arceus has a weird spread, it can still OHKO. Anyways, my main point is that it does more to neutral things that otherwise would be very good against it. Also, Protean MMX doesn't always do all its damage in one go, it switches out a lot, especially the V-Create set, which is why it's ok for V-C to lower stats so much. I still say not to remove V-Create because it's one of its best moves.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Mega Diancie analysis for BH still mentions Primal Groudon as a counter. That should be removed
Not necessarily. Groudon @ Red Orb is still legal and viable, and it still resists Fairy. That section needs to be tweaked to make sure it's known that PDon is a check, and if given a free switch (or if it switches in on Fake Out and Diancie doesn't have Ground coverage) then PDon can defeat Diancie. It shouldn't be removed entirely though imo
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Not necessarily. Groudon @ Red Orb is still legal and viable, and it still resists Fairy. That section needs to be tweaked to make sure it's known that PDon is a check, and if given a free switch (or if it switches in on Fake Out and Diancie doesn't have Ground coverage) then PDon can defeat Diancie. It shouldn't be removed entirely though imo
Yeah if you remove it in favor of a more accurate explanation, that's ok. But as of right now it's telling people that PDon cant check Mega Diancie without a Choice Scarf, a combination that's no longer legal, so that part should be removed.

It's true that PDon may barely scrape by as a check to MDiancie, but if we want to mention Fire-types, there are some other options that are far more reliable. For instance, Ho-Oh counters pretty much all variants of Mega Diancie (except those punks that run DStorm.), isn't weak to Ground coverage, and has a substantially higher SpDef stat to help it actually avoid being 2HKOd by Boomburst (like PDon is.) It can shut Diancie down with a Sacred Fire burn or put it to sleep or something, and then heal back up easily.

If we do keep PDon, there should be some changes to make the description more accurate. Most important thing is that it only works if you switch in against Fake Out / Extreme Speed, as both Boomburst and Precipice Blades cleanly 2HKO. You don't even have to mention avoiding Ground-type coverage because Boomburst actually hits harder than Precipice Blades, and will cleanly 2HKO even 252 HP variants regardless. Also, PDon begins to fail at its job after switching in like once, because it cant tank 2 ESpeeds and a Boomburst. (But hey, Ho-Oh can!)


I think the most optimal solution is combining them together in a tag called "Bulky Fire-types", naming Ho-Oh and PDon as the best checks.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Someone should write up a Ho-oh paragraph if that's the case and I'll replace Groundon's with it.
 
Took down the Scizor analysis for STABmons. Outdated, couldn't be changed via small changes. Revamp necessary.
 
Why is mixed desolate land victini not in the analysis when it's arguably the best set?

One of lax's biggest perks is that it can switch on and beat unaware suicune, the set posted in the analysis doesn't allow that, and there's barely a mention of this set. Instead the one posted is completely countered by unaware suicune, unaware cress and effectively checked by ph cune. I really don't understand the thought process behind that.

40% chance to 2hko chansey is pretty great so I don't know why you wouldn't add adaptability to skymin's analisys.
HP fire deals with Spd skarmory or Mega scizor better than any other move so I don't know why you wouldn't add them but add hp ice?...

Are we allowed to post in sets that are being worked on because I have a bunch to say about hoopaU.
 
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Why is mixed desolate land victini not in the analysis when it's arguably the best set?

One of lax's biggest perks is that it can switch on and beat unaware suicune, the set posted in the analysis doesn't allow that, and there's barely a mention of this set. Instead the one posted is completely countered by unaware suicune, unaware cress and effectively checked by ph cune. I really don't understand the thought process behind that.

40% chance to 2hko chansey is pretty great so I don't know why you wouldn't add adaptability to skymin's analisys.
HP fire deals with Spd skarmory or Mega scizor better than any other move so I don't know why you wouldn't add them but add hp ice?...

Are we allowed to post in sets that are being worked on because I have a bunch to say about hoopaU.
Lcass4919 Adrian Marin Kl4ng -Grim
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Why is mixed desolate land victini not in the analysis when it's arguably the best set?

One of lax's biggest perks is that it can switch on and beat unaware suicune, the set posted in the analysis doesn't allow that, and there's barely a mention of this set. Instead the one posted is completely countered by unaware suicune, unaware cress and effectively checked by ph cune. I really don't understand the thought process behind that.

40% chance to 2hko chansey is pretty great so I don't know why you wouldn't add adaptability to skymin's analisys.
HP fire deals with Spd skarmory or Mega scizor better than any other move so I don't know why you wouldn't add them but add hp ice?...

Are we allowed to post in sets that are being worked on because I have a bunch to say about hoopaU.
because physical tini simply does everything mixed wants to do and more. what does mixed tini get that physical just doesnt do better? it KO's everything it needs too, still struggles with the same checks and counters, and above that, forces itself to run a life orb, which puts it on a timer a fire type with a SR AND spikes weakness REALLY wants to avoid, especially when its #1 counter,FF ferrothorn has access to both. think about it, mixed tini gives it access to glaciate, blue flare, solar beam and thunderbolt, NONE of these moves stops ANY of its counters from switching in, other then FF doublade if it runs max spc attack, which still checks it. theres a reason mixtini isnt a OU set, and its the same reason here.

PH snorlax much prefers the bulk its spread gives, over its ability to defeat cune. however, i do beleive it deserves a mention(i wasnt around for this QC)

Skymin allthough adapt lets it 2hko chansey, it severely compromises its general "oomph" where "ok it 2hkos chansey...what about the rest of the meta?" adapt just gives it so many counters...FF ferrothorn, goodra, levitate heatran, tinted lens and sheer force at least lets you tackle on ALL of these threats, the reason tinted is the top set, was because i feel like skymins dual stabs are HORRIBLE, and its coverage is lacking. sheer force gives you strong coverage at the cost of seed flares effects, and serene grace lets you hax through everything. adaptability, allthough typically an amazing option on anything with tinted, just isnt good on a pokemon who severely suffers from "terrible stab coverage" and "limited coverage for aaa standards" chansey is literally the only thing adapt breaks through...which forces it to become countered by like, 6 new things.

hidden power fire hits nothing RELEVANT in the current meta. spc def skarm, and mega scizor are both incredibly rare, and defensive skarm is also rare in itself, and mega zor checks skymin pretty easily anyways, and often runs flash fire regularly, and will try to keep flash fire up to set up a swords dance and sweep. its so situational, i personally dont think its worth it. hp ice lets it beat dragonite on the switchin iirc a very common counter to shaymin that can revenge kill. most spc def skarm are also flash fire, which is another reason i personally didnt consider adding it.

idk, maybe one of the others can awnser it better,
 

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