OU Theorymon (Check Post #173)

[Isa Simple]

Approved by The Immortal

Thanks FookMi?
​

Welcome to OU Theorymon! If you're not aware of this project, allow me to briefly recap what it is about. The OU Theorymon Project was created to examine the effects of one buff (an added move, changed ability, or type change. [In special cases we also allow 2 buffs]) to any Pokemon below a B- ranking in the OU metagame.

ADDED POKEMON

Archive

+ Vital Spirit

+ Normal/Ghost typing

+ Poison/Steel typing

+ Magic Guard

(Mega Abomasnow) + Technician

+ Sand Stream

+ Prankster

(Mega Absol) + Dark/Fairy typing and Parting Shot

+ Protean

+ Defiant

+ Multiscale

+ Lightning Rod

+ Volt Switch

(Mega Steelix) + Arena Trap

(Mega Audino) + Simple

+ Wish

+ Sucker Punch

+ Electric/Steel typing and Flash Cannon replaces Air Slash

+ Roost

+ Focus Blast

+ Fur Coat

(Mega Aggron) + Steel/Dragon typing

+ Belly Drum

+ Water Absorb

+ Recover

+ Thousand Arrows

+ Extreme Speed

+ Sand Rush

(Mega Beedrill) + Bug/Ground typing

+ Gale Wings

+ Sheer Force

+ Fairy/Ground Typing

+ Trace

+ Poison Heal

+ Dragon Dance

+ Dragon/Ghost typing and Analytic

+ Drought

+ Ghost/Fighting Typing and Drain Punch

+ Poison/Dark Typing and Regenerator

+ Desolate Land

+ Dark / Fighting-typing and Vacuum Wave

+ Spikes

+ Magnet Pull

+ Seed Flare

+ Thick Fat

+ Rattled and Moonblast

+ Iron Barbs and Recover

CLAUSES & BANLISTS

• Standard OU clauses and ban lists apply

If you wish to participate in the growth of this project. Please do so in the Project Thread.

Note: The original thread is for coming up with new Theorymons. This thread is for discussing the current Theorymon metagame.

• Please don't post submissions for the project here. If you have any questions, please PM any or all of the council members: Recreant(Leader), Valmanway, GnralLao, Patolegend! and Tressed .
• I am not a council member. If you are PMing me make sure it is specific to this thread rather than the Project. i.e. don't send me suggestions for new theorymons and such.

• THIS IS PLAYABLE AS CHALLENGE FORMAT ON POKEMON SHOWDOWN. If you want to play OU Theorymon, you have to click on a user's name and challenge them to a battle. You can select the meta from there.

Discussion:

Pretty much anything related to the meta that isn't against any standard Smogon rules, and isn't ideas for new theorymons is valuable discussion.
Feel free to talk about new cores, the theorymon's influences on the meta, sets, which pokemon become more/less viable as a result of an added theorymon. Post replays of your experiences. And all that other wahoo.

Also feel free to discuss what kind of impact the pokemon of the current slates in the Project will have on this meta.
Current Slate:

+ Volt Switch and Regenerator (Credit to Cobalion. )

+ Unaware and Recover

+ Prankster (Credit to Akumeoy )

+ Water / Fairy-typing and Moonblast (Credit to Tressed )


Looking forward to the participation!

Thanks all,

Isa Simple :D

I'm going to try put together some resources to jazz up that 2nd post, and help people who want to play this meta on PS.

 

[Isa Simple]

OU Theorymon Viability Rankings (Currently being revamped)
Theorymons in Bold

Viability Rankings

(In alphabetical order)
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that hold a very high amount of viability. Their positive traits strongly outweigh their negative traits.

S Rank

Altaria (Mega)

Charizard (Mega-X)

Clefable
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that hold a high amount of viability. Their positive traits greatly outweigh their negative traits.

A+ Rank

Azumarill

Diancie (Mega)

Entei

Excadrill

Garchomp

Gengar

Gliscor

Gyarados (Mega)

Heatran

Hoopa Unbound

Keldeo

Kyurem

Landorus-T

Lopunny (Mega)

Latios

Manaphy

Sableye (Mega)

Scizor (Mega)

Talonflame

Thundurus

Tornadus-T

A Rank

Alakazam (Mega)

Charizard (Mega-Y)

Ferrothorn

Gardevoir (Mega)

Hippowdon

Latias

Latias (Mega)

Manectric (Mega)

Metagross (Mega)

Rotom-W

Slowbro

Starmie

Steelix (Mega)

Tyranitar

Venusaur (Mega)

Weavile

A- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Alakazam

Bisharp

Braviary

Gastrodon

Celebi

Gyarados

Jirachi

Klefki

Mew

Pidgeot (Mega)

Pinsir (Mega)

Politoed

Serperior

Slowbro (Mega)

Torterra

Volcarona

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that hold a moderately high amount of viability. Their positive traits are generally on par with their negative traits.

B+ Rank

Aggron (Mega)

Archeops

Beedrill (Mega)

Breloom

Cobalion

Camerupt (Mega)

Diggersby

Dragalge

Dragonite

Empoleon

Froslass

Gallade (Mega)

Garchomp (Mega)

Goodra

Heracross (Mega)

Kabutops

Kingdra

Krookodile

Kyurem-B

Latios (Mega)

Magnezone

Mamoswine

Medicham (Mega)

Moltres

Reuniclus

Sceptile (Mega)

Scolipede

Slowking

Suicune

Swampert (Mega)

Terrakion

Togekiss

Victini

Virizion

Zoroark

B Rank

Azelf

Bronzong

Chansey

Crawdaunt

Donphan

Feraligatr

Hawlucha

Hydreigon

Quagsire

Skarmory

Swanna

Omastar

Rotom-F

Scizor

Sharpedo (Mega)

Tyranitar (Mega)

Venusaur

Zapdos

B- Rank

Absol (Mega)

Ampharos (Mega)

Amoonguss

Banette (Mega)

Chesnaught

Conkeldurr

Cradily

Hoopa

Infernape

Lucario

Mandibuzz

Pangoro

Porygon-Z

Raikou

Rhyperior

Sylveon
Tangrowth
Toxicroak

Tyrantrum

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that hold a moderately low amount of viability. Their positive traits are slightly hindered by their negative traits.

C+ Rank

Alomomola

Audino (Mega)

Blastoise (Mega)

Cacturne

Cresselia

Granbull

Heracross

Jolteon

Mantine

Magneton

Muk

Sandslash

Seismitoad

Staraptor

Thundurus-T

Victreebel

Weezing

C Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)

Blissey

Cofagrigus

Dugtrio

Forretress

Gogoat

Gourgeist-XL

Porygon2

Shuckle

Whimsicott

C- Rank

Espeon

Floatzel

Milotic

Noivern

Roserade

Rotom-H

Smeargle

Zygarde

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that hold a low amount of viability. Their positive traits are normally hindered by their negative traits.

Chandelure

Cloyster

Emboar

Flygon

Haxorus

Honchkrow

Jellicent

Gorebyss

Meloetta

Metagross

Mienshao

Nidoking

Nidoqueen

Sableye

Salamence

Shaymin

Pending initial viability rankings placement:

Houndoom (Mega)

Tentacruel

 

[Sun King]

Something that really takes a hit in this metagame is Skarmory. With SR to break Sturdy, Skarmory is COMPLETE switch in bait for Entei. Entei can very easily sweep teams if it gets the Defiant boost, so Skarmory is forced to either switch out, or run Whirlwind. Once Entei is in, it can threaten the entire metagame with one of its ungodly powerful Sacred Fires.

In my experience, Entei has really been one of the scariest threats because of the amount of pressure it puts on your team coupled with the difficulty of switching into it. One of my favorite answers is Rocky Helmet Garchomp because it kills Entei without really doing much,but even Chomp hates Sacred Fire burns. As such, I've run Rest on my Garchomp to alleviate the residual damage from Burns and keep it capable of stopping Entei at any given moment in the game.

 

[Isa Simple]

Yeah I must say, during the theorymon tour Entei was certainly one of the biggest threats, and Skarmory definitely takes a hit from its presence.
Extreme Speed and Sacred Fire are just so incredibly spammable, and with a Defiant boost behind it there is very little that can stand up to Entei.
One thing which I believe may have had its viability hit is Bisharp, as it has great competition as a Defiant user now.
In the tour I don't think there was a single Bisharp, yet spikes stack + Entei was absolutely everywhere. Now this could just have been hype in using the buffed pokemon, but idk.
We also have E-Speed Braviary now who is another great Defiant user. I wouldn't be surprised if Bisharp finds itself far lower on the viability rankings due to this incredible competition.
Though Bisharp's typing does give it a good match up vs the Latis, the most common defoggers in standard (Magic Guard Moltres is another epic offensive or defensive defogger that may give the Latis some competition).

What do you guys think? Is Bisharp less viable in this meta as it potentially loses its niche of being the best Defiant abuser? And how does Moltres compare to the Latis as a defogger?

 

[Sun King]

I definitely think that Moltres could be one of the premier Defoggers, but it can't beat Entei due to that Stone Edge coverage. I think that Bisharp has some significant competition thanks to the new additions. It's hard to beat such reliable priority in Extremespeed, especially when one of its competitors has STAB on that.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Heyo, I just played a couple of matches vs. Isa Simple on PS, and I don't think the latest group has been implemented--Sand Rush Cacturne and Thousand Arrows Sandslash were illegal. Tagging The Immortal so he can implement this please and thanks :D

 

[The Immortal]

Heyo, I just played a couple of matches vs. Isa Simple on PS, and I don't think the latest group has been implemented--Sand Rush Cacturne and Thousand Arrows Sandslash were illegal. Tagging The Immortal so he can implement this please and thanks :D

It was but the server was not updated. It's live now!

 

[EV]

Sigh

+ Gale Wings

+ Sheer Force

The Immortal

 

[Isa Simple]

Sorry about missing the update, time zones messed up and the results rolled in at 3AM.

In other news, Viability Rankings are now up!

Not much other than initial placements of buffed pokemon, but a few moves were made as follows;

changes and explanations

Bisharp down to A-:
Gets very powerful competition as a Defiant abuser from Entei and Braviary, both of which have far more reliable priority. Moltres is now one of the better Defoggers and Bisharp looses to Moltres every time. Also matches up poorly vs Sand with all the fast Ground types, and Sand balance/offense is extremely strong in this meta.


Skarmory down to B:
As a Defogger, it is largely threatened by the new Defiant users, particularly Entei, which it is complete fodder for. Also as a spiker it gains great competition from Frostlass on offense, and Forretress to an extent on other teams.


Rhyperior up to B-:
One of the most reliable counters to Entei, beating it even at +2. Also acts as a rocks setters that destroys Moltres and beats Braviary.


Gliscor up to A+:
Reliably 1v1s new threats such as Entei, Mega Beedrill, Bronzong, Weezing, Reuniclus, Mega Ampharos, Sandslash, and Forretress. As well as potential other theorymons and doing everything it already did in standard OU just as well.



Mega Sableye up to S ???:
Mega Sableye has always been great in OU and gains a lot of perks in this meta. With multiple new Spikes, Defog and Defiant users, Sableye’s ability to deny hazards is more valuable than ever. Also there are a lot of new theorymons that can be used alongside Mega Sableye and greatly threaten the fairy types that give it grief. Such as Weezing, Moltres, Entei, Empoleon, Mega Steelix, Rotom-F, Mega Aggron, and Bronzong. Mega Steelix in particular can trap the fairies. Also you remember Bisharp + Mega Sableye Hazard Stacking Balance? Well yeah, Entei + Mega Sableye Hazard Stacking Balance.


Flygon Unranked to D:
Has a valuable niche of being able to Defog without fear of Entei, and can even be invested specifically to Defog in Entei’s face and still win.


Mega Metagross down to A:
The metagame brims with various checks to it as well as Dark types that are fast and or carry Sucker Punch. Additionally its checks are widespread and can fit on most teams along with that Fairy types have dropped down in usage with all the checks that have arisen.


Mega Garchomp up to B+:
Between Sand Stream Cradily, Thousand Arrows Sandslash, and Sand Rush Cacturne, with Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Excadrill still being extremely strong and having great synergy with each other, Mega Garchomp easily gets the support it needs to be a crazy wall breaker. It also matches up nicely against Entei.

Note that the viability rankings aren't 100% up to date with the standard VR so I'll work on getting that up to speed.
Also massive thanks to FookMi? for helping put these together.

Where do you all believe Swanna + Gale Wings and Kyurem + Sheer Force should be placed?

 

[vyomov]

Sheer Force should easily push Kyurem to A+ at the minimum, since Kyurem now decimates almost anything in the tier and can attack from both sides of the spectrum; whether its drawbacks in terms of speed and typing pull it away from S remain to be seen, but SF Kyurem is definitely around the same level as Keldeo and Manaphy

 

[Isa Simple]

Sheer Force should easily push Kyurem to A+ at the minimum, since Kyurem now decimates almost anything in the tier and can attack from both sides of the spectrum; whether its drawbacks in terms of speed and typing pull it away from S remain to be seen, but SF Kyurem is definitely around the same level as Keldeo and Manaphy

Would it be fair to say then that Kyurem-B would take a hit in viability due to the dominance of regular Kyurem outclassing it?
Kyurem-B has higher Atk, Fusion Bolt, and Terravolt, but how relevant will this keep it in comparison to its buffed counterpart?

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Btw, you can hit almost as hard as Kyurem White if you don't mind misses.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 156-185 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 173-204 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

But really. Kyurem Black is just outclassed for sure. I mean, this is a Sheer Force poke that has higher Attack and Special Attack than Landorus I. Yeah, it's slower, but considering it's bulky (unlike Landorus) and has better variations of moves than Landorus, A+ is suitable, if not S.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I'm going to nominate Swanna for B+ Rank
Rain as a playstyle seems to pivot around Politoed. Politoed gets a rank, then the rest of the main rain sweepers usually follow in at a Sub rank below. Swanna is going to be a very beneficial member of Rain teams, able to easily dispatch Grass-types that can hinder Swift Swimmers, as well as some other troublesome Pokemon

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Fish for that confusion o3o Decent damage, especially as Ferro has no reliable recovery.

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 1036-1224 (272.6 - 322.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Did I even need to calc this lol

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 446-528 (138 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo can give Kabutops some trouble, and HP Grass variants can even live an EQ and kill Mega Swampert.

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
2HKOed

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 350-414 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Guaranteed after Rocks

Swanna has other good sets too (including defensive support and physical) although I think its main niche will be demolishing Grass-types on Rain teams, and generally spamming 100% accurate priority Hurricane's and spreading confusion. I think B+ would be a good rank for Swanna to start out in.

 

[Sun King]

I'm going to nominate Swanna for B+ Rank
Rain as a playstyle seems to pivot around Politoed. Politoed gets a rank, then the rest of the main rain sweepers usually follow in at a Sub rank below. Swanna is going to be a very beneficial member of Rain teams, able to easily dispatch Grass-types that can hinder Swift Swimmers, as well as some other troublesome Pokemon

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Fish for that confusion o3o Decent damage, especially as Ferro has no reliable recovery.

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 1036-1224 (272.6 - 322.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Did I even need to calc this lol

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 446-528 (138 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo can give Kabutops some trouble, and HP Grass variants can even live an EQ and kill Mega Swampert.

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
2HKOed

252 SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 350-414 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Guaranteed after Rocks

Swanna has other good sets too (including defensive support and physical) although I think its main niche will be demolishing Grass-types on Rain teams, and generally spamming 100% accurate priority Hurricane's and spreading confusion. I think B+ would be a good rank for Swanna to start out in.

I think it will be good, but I think B+ is too high--considering it needs rain to function at it's absolute best. I'd say B or B- to start, and we can go up from there.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I think it will be good, but I think B+ is too high--considering it needs rain to function at it's absolute best. I'd say B or B- to start, and we can go up from there.

Well, it doesn't need Rain to function, unlike Swift Swimmers. Swanna still has a 110 BP STAB priority move it can use outside of Rain (albeit with only 70% accuracy, but it can still outspeed stuff, unlike the majority of SS users outside of Rain). This also isn't taking into account that it could be the support or physical sets as well--you don't know what it is running until it has attacked you. That said, I could also see B Rank working for it right now, until we test it a bit more.

 

[Isa Simple]

I personally think that anything bellow B+ would be underselling Swanna.
There has been a lot of talk about rain, which is necessary to let Swanna reach its max potential, but Swanna is far from restricted to Rain. The Specs set with rain support is probably its best set, but lets not forget about all the other perks Swanna has.

Firstly there is the forever fantasised Priority Defog.
With priority Defog, and priority Brave Bird stronger than Talonflame's, Swanna would be a fantastic offensive Defogger.

Gonna quote DarkNostalgia on his mixed set, which looks very effective.

Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 104 Atk / 204 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam / Defog

Cool mixed revenge killer set I came up with. Has dual STABs, Scald for burn shenanigans, Brave Bird to get past specially bulky stuff like Tornadus-T, Hurricane as a spammable main STAB for the likes of Mega Charizard X, Ice Beam for Dragon-types. Defog is an option to provide priority support if Ice Beam coverage isn't needed.

The EV spread seems complicated, but what 104 Attack EVs do is guaranteeing an OHKO on Hasty Life Orb Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock damage with Brave Bird. 200 Speed with a beneficial nature means Swanna outspeeds Jolly max Speed Landorus-T, but it can be toned down for if Landorus-T isn't a necessary benchmark. Other benchmarks for a neutral nature include 212 Speed for beneficial natured Dragonite, Mega Altaria, Gardevoir, Togekiss, and Mamoswine, 196 Speed for Jolly Diggersby, and 188 Speed for Timid Heatran. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack to buff of Scald, Hurricane, and Ice Beam.

Cool partners include stuff that can take on the likes of Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, which wall Swanna. Examples include Serperior and Latios especially when carrying Hidden Power Fire, Toxic Heatran, and Breloom.

The Defensive set may also prove to be decent in practice, even if it seems gimmicky. I don't wanna make this post a wall of quotes but GnralLao made a post on it on page 114 (#2830). I highly doubt it would be as strong or viable as its offensive set, but it may be viable enough to contribute to its overall ranking.
I mean just look at the discussion, there are plenty of reasons to use Swanna outside of rain. AM made a core almost solely off of Swanna's utility in access to priority Tail Wind and Feather Dance.
There's even the Sash Endeavour anti lead set!

Lets jump back to Rain for a minute:
Swanna vs Kingdra
I honestly don't see much between these two.
They both have great Specs wall breaker sets, and mixed rain sweeper sets.
Each have great dual STABs that are each resisted by only 7 pokemon (Shedinja is immune to Kingdra's STAB, +1 Swanna).
Kingdra has better bulk and power (and speed in Rain), but Swanna has Priority > Speed and Flying > Dragon coverage. Also Swanna is infinitely better than Kingdra outside of Rain. There are only 9 pokemon in OU that can take 2 hits from either of Swanna's STAB moves in Rain, only 2 of which are S to A-, and 4 of which lack recovery.

Solely for its role as a rain sweeper, I would be tempted to rank Swanna the same as Kingdra. But I think that when you combine Swanna's rain set with all of its other sets, it easily cements that spot, and should probably go even higher.

EDIT: Also I'm putting Sheer Force Kyurem at A+ for now, and will test whether it is S worthy. Gonna allow for more discussion on Swanna's initial placement.

 

[Sun King]

I would not sell Swanna so highly yet. Yes--it's good. No--it's not Talonflame. Swanna is still held back by a lack of reliable Water STAB. I think it really makes more sense to be conservative in any initial ranking. I haven't seen a single game/replay with Swanna, so why are we pushing for it to be A ranked? Let's let it develop a bit and see. B sounds like a very appropriate initial ranking.

 

[Isa Simple]

Added Swanna to B for now.

Also while I'm here, I played a couple good Theorymon games with my friend, both of which ended up quite close.
The 2nd was a custom game because the server hadn't updated Swanna and Kyurem yet, but the only thing effected was Mega Audino, which wouldn't have made a difference anyway.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/outheorymon-244074287
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-248312969 - Weavile Semi Stall O_O
Weavile is such a massive threat!

EDIT: How far are we thinking of dropping Kyurem-B?

 

[Blumenwitz]

Yes--it's good. No--it's not Talonflame. Swanna is still held back by a lack of reliable Water STAB.

Scald? Surf?

 

[Isa Simple]

Scald? Surf?

I assume he was meant to be referring specifically to the physical sets, in which case the best option is Dive.

 

[Blumenwitz]

I assume he was meant to be referring specifically to the physical sets, in which case the best option is Dive.

Oh, okay.

 

[GlassVeins]

Y'know, I think that multiscale milotic could go up a little, because of his great ability to absorb hits like nothing and recover them off. As a matter of fact, with his standard UU defensive spread, he can't be OHKO'd by ANYTHING in OU. as a matter of fact, the only things that can OHKO him in Ubers are zekrom and specs kyu-w! I know that he's kinda passive, but I still think that he's probably one of the best walls in existence.
Arceus-Electric (Uber Calm Mind) Judgment38.9 - 45.8%guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shaymin-S (Uber SubSeed)Seed Flare38.9 - 45.8%guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

also:

Mega Sableye up to S ???:
Mega Steelix in particular can trap the fairies. .

that would be great if you could have more than one mega on your team!

 

[Akumeoy]

Y'know, I think that multiscale milotic could go up a little, because of his great ability to absorb hits like nothing and recover them off. As a matter of fact, with his standard UU defensive spread, he can't be OHKO'd by ANYTHING in OU. as a matter of fact, the only things that can OHKO him in Ubers are zekrom and specs kyu-w! I know that he's kinda passive, but I still think that he's probably one of the best walls in existence.
Arceus-Electric (Uber Calm Mind) Judgment38.9 - 45.8%guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shaymin-S (Uber SubSeed)Seed Flare38.9 - 45.8%guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These calcs are premised on an intact Multiscale. Hazards aside, Milotic probably doesn't reliably wall things, seeing as how it has to restore its Multiscale often enough that it generates free switches to something that disrupts it. Milotic will inevitably find itself in situations where something is inclined to 2HKO it because its Multiscale is broken. Not that this makes Multiscale not a great ability, but it means that Milotic requires nontrivial team support to function any better than it does in standard. It absorbs hits, yeah, but I suspect that a lot of teams can work around it. Maybe a Sub+Recover+Scald+Dragon Tail set could alleviate the issue of generating free turns for the opponent. Any replays?

 

[Isa Simple]

I have one replay of Milotic from when I used it in the tour, but it only absorbed a couple hits before getting double critted a KOed lol.
But I've found that the problem with Milotic is that it pretty much needs Multiscale to be in tact in order to sponge hits efficiently. Meaning literally all you can do is spam Recover, because as soon as Multiscale is broken and you start taking decent physical hits, its very hard to get Multiscale back up as there are a lot of pokemon that will do at least 45% to you. If you Scald a physical attacker you practically need it to burn, as other wise it will just keep pressuring you to a point where it is nearly impossible to get Multiscale back in tact.

Take this example:
You switch in vs something like Mega Charizard X, it uses Dragon Claw.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Milotic: 80-94 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
You tank it like a beast cause you have Multiscale.
Next turn you try Toxic or pretty much anything but Recover. Charizard Dragon Claws again.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 160-189 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You are now in range to be out sped and KOed, solely because you were careless with Multiscale.

So basically you NEED Multiscale in tact, as without it in tact you are just ordinary Milotic, which is unranked for a reason.
The result is, you either come in exceedingly rarely only on threats that normal Milotic checks, or you become one of the most passive pokemon in the world and do nothing but use Recover. Just waiting to be critted.

That said though its not all sour. I've been playing a lot of games with my mate and we've been trying to test all the theorymons, Milotic is in fact a fantastic Toxic Staller. With some solid speed investment, you can afford to Toxic something while MS is in tact, then out speed to get it straight back up with Recover, spam Recover to become unbreakable, and they die to Toxic. This is even better with Toxic Spikes or Toxic support from your team mates. Toxic everything that can be and remove Steel and Poison types, then just switch in Milotic and press Recover until everything is dead. Not the most reliable play style, but effective when done right and in a good match up. Also you'll probably feel like a massive tool doing it.

 

[Salemance]

Hey so anyone up for a match? Since its pretty much challenge only, thought I should ask here for one if thats good.