Project OU Underdog Project (Week 17: Mega Abomasnow)

[TrulyDevious]

CroCune/SubCM Cune. Without HP Fire, Steelix can scare off (or even KO, with a little mindplay and prediction) Mega Mane, which helps Cune. MegaLix mostly sees play on (semi-)stall and balance, but you can also tech it against the Zards and TFlame, depends on what you need. Even so, MAggron is a lot better; MLix's only niche is beating electrics more reliably.

 

[Martin]

Mega Steelix is a really cool mon both in terms of design and what it does. Take Mega Aggron, give it better special bulk, give it a Volt Switch immunity to wall the VoltTurn combo, give it STAB Earthquake to bring the pain and give it a situational-af ability and you have Mega Steelix

A set that a handful of people have experimented with is Curse. I've not used it so I can't conment, so I'm gonna tag -Magic- because IK he's used the set before and will be able to comment more thoroughly on it.

Anyway, I've never really thought of it as strictly outclassed per se, as it has a few cool things going for it that Aggron doesn't. If you are running it entirely defensively you are doing something wrong, as it is better to take a more offensive approach to take advantage of STAB EQ. I've used a set of SR+Heavy Slam+EQ+Stone Edge (the spread I used escapes me and i cba to dig through my 200-odd crappy teams looking for it) to good success. The extra special bulk helps a tonne by making it able to cockblock stuff like Raikou with the appropriate investment, making it a solid stop to VoltTurn when you consider that it also cockblocks stuff like Scizor.

 

[SketchUp]

Even if you use a more specially defensive spread, you should play Mega Steelix way more agressively than Mega Aggron. Mega Aggron has the luxury in that it can take almost every unboosted attack in the metagame, allowing it to just mindlessly spam Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave and Heavy Slam. For Mega Steelix it matters a lot more because it can't just take a supereffective attack, click Thunder Wave to cripple the opponent and switch out to a secondary check because it lacks Filter, it lacks Thunder Wave and it is more prone to Water-, Ice- and Grass-Type attacks. From my experience playing with both Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron, Mega Steelix requires more prediction but also has a bigger reward than Aggron, mainly to due Earthquake STAB.

Two of my favorite cores that show MLix > MAggron pretty well:

I like to use a bulky spread of 248 HP / 32+ Def / 228 SpD or a more offensive spread with 248 HP / 16+ Atk / 244 SpD on Mega Steelix. MLix has the obvious advantage over Mega Aggron here in providing an Electric immunity, but it can also put a lot more pressure on LO Starmie, Keldeo and Mega Sableye (especially with Adamant) because of STAB Earthquake. Pretty useful core if you pair it up with a Spikes setter because Mega Steelix sets up rocks and beat Lati's, while Jellicent spinblocks against Starmie and Scarf Excadrill.

A pretty obvious Mega Steelix core that shows the more offensive side of Mega Steelix. In my opinion Max HP / Max Attack is the best spread for Mega Steelix, even though on sand teams it faces really big competition from LO Excadrill. It has a much easier time against teams that rely on pokemon like SD Lando-T to check Excadrill. It also beats Bulky Mega Scizor with Fire Fang which is a really big thing for the usual sand builds. I like to pair it up with Tyranitar instead of Hippowdon because I think Hippowdon's support isn't really needed with an already bulky rocks setter, while Tyranitar's ability to lure in a ton of things with resist berries and special moves is a lot more useful.

 

[Martin]

Confirming Lix+Jelly is a good core. Its fun on balanced spikes teams due to Jelly being one of the few true spinblockers, and even without spikes it functions really well due to jelly covering Keldeo and Starmie for Lix. Make sure to bring a backup answer to Manectric 'cause it is able to dent this core pretty heavily.

 

[SketchUp]

Meloetta can not simply be compared to any other Psychic- or Normal-Type pokemon. It has a very unique typing, allowing it to check dangerous special attackers such as Alakazam, Gengar and Heatran. Its Psychic form is a good bulky Psychic-Type, but Meloetta can also turn into a dangerous physical attacker thanks to Relic Song. What set(s) should Meloetta run in OU? On what kind of teams does Meloetta fit best and what are the main advantages over other Psychic-Types? Discuss!

Next Week:

(XL)

 

[Tressed]

Meloetta in and of itself is an alright Pokemon, nothing particularly impressive. It's main niche is being able to check some specific special attackers like Mega Alakazam and Gengar while still maintaining an offensive presence. It has excellent special bulk but it's bland typing leaves it with very few resistances. Coupled with a total lack of recovery, Meloetta can't perform a full out defensive set and usually ends up taking an offensive route with Calm Mind. It has a very flavorful offensive movepool but typically sticks to its two excellent STABs, Hyper Voice and Psyshock, partnered with Focus Blast for a great neutral coverage. As an offensive Pokemon, however, Meloette suffers from its low Speed and physical defense, which leave it prone to being revenge killed and Pursuit trapped. That said, it's a very good check to specific threats and is worth consideration if you're particularly weak to certain stuff.

Ok this Pokemon looks amazing until you realize that it's attached to the mon above. Meloetta's Pirouette forme is pretty much everything you would want in a physical attacker, namely a speed tier that outruns most of the meta, enough coverage to hit what it wants, a solid attack stat boosted by Life Orb. The issue is that it's too slow, not in the speed tier sense but in the sense that it takes a turn to use Relic Song to change into this forme every time you switch in, which gives your opponent far too much time to react and makes actually accomplishing anything far too much of a hassle to justify using it. It's pretty much worse than Mega Lopunny in almost every aspect. Even though Meloetta can hold a Life Orb, which should push its damage output far past Lopunny's, Lopunny usually doesn't have to use an uninvested weak move before firing off its powerful attacks, which makes it more threatening for defensive cores in general. Meloetta-P can differentiate itself by going mixed, which allows it to lure in checks to either the pure special or pure physical set by switching forme and firing off Close Combats or Thunders, but this set is really gimmicky and isn't worth running on a serious team.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Posting from phone, so forgive formatting/brevity. I'll clean up once at a comp.

Meloetta @ Leftovers
- Rest
- Snore
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
252/252 HP/Def

The rarely used stall breaker meloetta has actually been very successful for me. It has surprising physical bulk thanks to decent HP stat and the flinch chance of snore + serene grace can really mess with anything slower. Pair this with specially defensive bulk up + rest scrafty and you will 6-0 stall every time.

Trick room LO with psyshock/FB/shadow ball is also very effective. It can be set up in front of gengar is very threatening to things it "out speeds"

I should say I believe all offensive sets except maybe AV (which isn't that good) to be totally outclassed by faster psychics like alakazam or the latis

 

[Reigako]

Meloetta @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe // 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe (176 in Speed allows to outspeed things up to Mild Kyu-B, and 216 up to Heracross before M-Evo)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Dazzling Gleam / U-turn / HP Fire (ty Starmei)
- U-turn / Trick

I think Specs Meloetta can have a niche in the OU metagame due to her good damage output and nearly unresisted coverage with Focus Blast and Dazzling Gleam.
She also have a great tool in Trick, which allows her to win most match-ups against Stall teams. U-turn is also pretty useful, allowing her team to gain momentum.
But as her main niche is her ability to check powerful special attackers such as Gengar or Kazam, i think her best set in OU would be the AV :

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe (96 in Speed allows to reach the 240 Speed benchmark, to deal with Adamant Bisharp and Breloom mostly)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk (Or 31 IVs if you still want some power in her U-turns and Knock Offs)
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- U-turn / Knock Off

Here's some calcs :

Hide

252 SpA Mega Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 90-106 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 6.9% chance to 4HKO (I guess we won't see Signal Beam again due to Hoopa-U suspect (and maybe ban), but it's the most powerful attack that kazam can throw to her)
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta in Sun: 150-177 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 87-105 (21.5 - 26%) -- 3% chance to 4HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 97-115 (24 - 28.5%) -- 97.6% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 206-246 (51.1 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Still a 2HKO, but it's from Specs Hoopa Oo)
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 117-138 (29 - 34.2%) -- 2.8% chance to 3HKO (She's 2HKOed by Secret Sword, but well)
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO (Also 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt but well)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 121-142 (30 - 35.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 247-292 (61.2 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (She can even take a hit at +6, but she takes around 90%)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 67-79 (16.6 - 19.6%) -- possible 6HKO

However, as she lacks recovery (if only she could have Regenerator :[), she will have a hard time dealing with hazard spamming teams (which are very common in the balanced playstyle for example), and most physical attackers (moreover if they carry Pursuit).

I guess it is also possible to use Colbur Berry in order to deal with Pursuit users such as Bisharp or Tyranitar. With Colbur Berry, Meloetta can take any hit from them and retaliate back, but here's a problem : it relies on Focus Blast hitting them (And we all know how Focus Blast is reliable), and even that can't OHKO Ttar 100% of the time when under sand (Or you have to use at least 240 SpA EVs, but...).

 

[nameless90]

I think that Meloetta has at least 2 viable sets in OU:
(1) AV set with 4 coverage moves;
(2) LO Sub + Calm Mind with 2 coverage moves (Psyshock and Focus Blast to hit both sides of the spectrum) to stallbreak.

The Scarf and the Specs set are viable thanks to Trick, but they lock Meloetta into a move coming from 90 base Spe.
P.S. It's strange that this singer doesn't have a page for OU in the dex.

I think that the Relic Song set is a good lure towards Pursuit user (click Relic Song on the incoming Pursuit user and scare it out with the Fighting STAB), albeit too much team specific. I also want to point out that most Psychic types weak to Pursuit have Focus Blast (unreliable but is still a threat) to discourage risky switch-ins.

Meloetta has an interesting typing considering that STAB Hyper Voice bypasses Substitutes for dealing neutral damage most of the time; luckily Ghosts are pretty uncommon in OU bar some notable exceptions such as Mega Sableye. The problem is that this singer is Knock Off weak with low defense at her disposal, so strong physical Knock Off/Pursuit users are a huge problem. 90 base Spe is not that great even with a Scarf.

 

[Starmei]

Melo is pretty cool tbh, adaptations of Reigako 's sets are pretty much what I've run when I used Meloetta (Colbur CM usually - Hyper Voice, CM, Psyshock, Focus) but Specs is cool too, on a Specs set i'd probably slash HP Fire in the last slot though, allows you to hit MScizor better & SpD Skarm/Ferro/a few other things more reliably than what Focus does. With the introduction of Hoopa-U I really haven't used Meloetta at all - While it does have some notable advantages over Hoopa like +10 speed, not 4x weak to u-turn, and some others I really don't find Meloetta to be great in comparison.

I actually posted on Meloetta in Albacore's old thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ct-week-17-gogoat.3532674/page-5#post-6270630 but that was quite some time ago

On the topic of Melo-P I agree with Tressed and I honestly find it a rather poor option most of the time.

Pretty short post because a lot has been covered already

 

[Martin]

Idk I've been messing around with meloetta-p recently and it is just disgusting how under-prepared a lot of teams are for it. Like, too many offensive teams rely on def Lando-T to act as their Lopunny switch-in (and by extension their melo-p and it just gets nuked by MixedMelo before it transforms (Psy-->Relic KOs after rocks with minimal investment), and it is just so versatile with what it can do with that fourth moveslot (literally any of KOff, U-turn, Quick Attack, Dazzling Gleam, Thunder/Thunderbolt, Ice Punch or Return can be used off of the top of my head) that a lot of its so-called stops just end up dropping to it or get screwed over by a momentum grab. Also it just breaks balance with its raw power

Ultimately, versatility is Meloetta's playground name. There is just so much that this thing can do well that it is completely insane. CM, Specs, Mixed, AV and Cleric are all very solid sets (And contrary to Reigako I really like Colbur on CM variants because 7/10 you'll hit it anyway). Definitely one of my favorite mons to experiment with.

 

[SketchUp]

Gourgeist's uncommon typing and good physical bulk make it a good check to pokemon such as Landorus-T, Keldeo, Mega Metagross and Terrakion. Furthermore, due to its decent movepool, Gourgeist can surprise many opponents not expecting moves such as Trick, Explosion and Fire Blast. What set(s) should Gourgeist-XL run in OU? What are good teammates for Gourgeist-XL and on what kind of teams does Gourgeist-XL work best? Discuss!

Next week:

 

[Ramses]

Gourgeist-XL is legit good tbh. There literally one set you can run to get the best bang for your buck when you use it

Gourgeist-XL @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Sneak / Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp

I honestly prefer Shadow Sneak since picking off weakened things like Latios thinking they're getting a free kill, but hahaha, sniped. It's a nice check to Mega Metagross, Keldeo to an extent, Lopunny, Loom, etc. I often pair this up with Heatran since they've got exceptional synergy since it checks Talon, Zard X, craps on Mega Sableye, good stuff. Pretty much the only reason to use it is because it can spinblock Excadrill, which nothing else in the tier can safely to switch-in. It checks Azumarill to an extent to since it can burn it ez pz. Explosion is pretty bad since it does hefty damage, but uninvested = limp noodle. Fire Blast I've used before since I got tired of Ferrothorn and it works nice if you've got a particular weakness to it. Mega Scizor too, but it gets screwed by Wisp.

Oh and Curse Mega Steelix kinda sucks. Bulky Offensive is the best imo.

 

[SketchUp]

On the defensive set I would always stick to Leech Seed + Synthesis + Will-O-Wisp to have the best possible matchup against physical attackers. I prefer to use Foul Play to take on Lum SD / DD users like Lando-T, Dragonite and Gyarados a lot better and it also is the strongest move against pokemon like Torn-T, Latios and SD Gliscor after a boost.
Gourgeist-Super is already a bit gimmicky so you might want to stick with the standard defensive set or maybe go for Trick Room but I've played with one set I came up with a few days ago (not sure if it already existed in a lower tier)

Gourgeist-Super @ Choice Band
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Sneak
- Rock Slide

The main reason to use this set is for the surprise factor. If your opponent finds out you're offensive, his counterplay against Gourgeist is a lot better and Gourgeist lost the biggest part behind its 'success' (surprise factor). Still, this set can cripple a lot of walls early in the game. Gourgeist lures in pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Clefable, Taunt Skarmory and Heatran, most of which become really useless after being tricked a choice item. Rock Slide lures in Flying- and Fire-Types that like to switch in against Gourgeist because of their supereffective STAB and a resistance to Gourgeist' Grass STAB. Between Trick and Rock Slide, there aren't many viable Fire- and Flying-Types that safely switch in against this set. Pair it up with something like Scizor or Volcarona and have fun after Heatran, Skarmory and Talonflame are gone.
Shadow Sneak is there for priority and although it is really weak against everything not weak to it, it still does its job at removing pokemon like Jirachi, Latios, and Alakazam. Seed Bomb is the strongest move for Gourgeist but because of bad coverage it is not really spammable unfortunately. It is a great way to weaken pokemon like Hoopa-Unbound and Mega Sableye, but other pokemon that aren't weak to it don't really care. The main issue with this set is that even with a Choice Band it still lacks power. Pokemon like Gliscor, Reuniclus, Breloom and Bisharp will always avoid the 2HKO from Gourgeist. An advantage however is that some of these switchins, like Breloom and Landorus-T, can't do much back to Gourgeist and will probably not switch in in the first place because of the possible defensive set.
My advice is to use this set early in the match to cripple annoying pokemon like Clefable or lure in pokemon like Talonflame. I have had a few matches where I could lure in both a defensive wall and a Fire/Flying-Type and if you succeed with that, Gourgeist did a great job. An example of this was crippling Clefable turn 1 with Trick and then weaken Kyurem-B with Rock Slide + Shadow Sneak (without Band it did a total of 55% (+10% LO recoil)) Making both Clefable as Kyurem-B pretty unreliable as Mega Manectric switchin (his ground type was Lando-T so Manectric swept in the end). Gourgeist is probably sacced in the first 10 turns more often than not but in many situations it does a pretty useful job in those first 10 turns. Don't be surprised if it fails a few times because this is just a gimmicky set for a gimmicky pokemon.

Edit:
So this set is pretty fun to use but I realised Trevenant can also run a similar set (not really a surprise I forgot Trevenant because why even consider it). It has a better ability, it hits a lot harder thanks to Wood Hammer and it has a much better matchup against Steel-Types thanks to Earthquake. I think if you want to use this set Band Trevenant is probably better how awful it sounds but you can still run this set because it doesn't die to +2 Lando-T / +2 Breloom / Mega Lopunny and you can lure in Flying-Types a lot better thanks to Rock Slide. Priority is also a nice tool Gourgeist has because of its low speed. You probably shouldn't use either of the two sets (Band Gour / Band Trev) but if you want to use some innovation in OU, both sets are definitely worth trying out.

 

[Pardus]

Gourgeist-Super @ Iron Ball
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Synthesis
- Skill Swap
- Trick
- Gyro Ball/Will o' Wisp/Toxic

Double Trick Gourgeist (name subject to change) has one role: crippling mons. Skill Swap can cripple many common switch ins, like Talonflame and Clefable, and Trick allows it to beat others, like Weavile, Tornadus-T, and, again, Talonflame, and cripple most sweepers. A good partner might be a sweeper Exacdrill with Moldbreaker+EQ to sweep teams. Gourgeist can remove their flying type with Trick, and even without packs at least some damage with Gyro Ball (although often Toxic or Will o' Wisp will be better, but then we're taint fodder). Continuing on the Excadrill idea, Gourgeist allows you to force a switch from Keldeo.

 

[bluegrass]

Gourgeist-Super @ Iron Ball
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Synthesis
- Skill Swap
- Trick
- Gyro Ball/Will o' Wisp/Toxic

Double Trick Gourgeist (name subject to change) has one role: crippling mons. Skill Swap can cripple many common switch ins, like Talonflame and Clefable, and Trick allows it to beat others, like Weavile, Tornadus-T, and, again, Talonflame, and cripple most sweepers. A good partner might be a sweeper Exacdrill with Moldbreaker+EQ to sweep teams. Gourgeist can remove their flying type with Trick, and even without packs at least some damage with Gyro Ball (although often Toxic or Will o' Wisp will be better, but then we're taint fodder). Continuing on the Excadrill idea, Gourgeist allows you to force a switch from Keldeo.

Does Skill Swap have any merit on Gourgeist? Never used him before in OU but your gonna get set up on by clef without toxic and talonflame still beats you, not to mention they can just switch out. I'd rather just run rock slide to catch Talon on the switch. The only things I can think of that it helps against are Mega Sableye (again needs Toxic) and Heatran, who you still lose to with this set.

 

[Martin]

Been using this on the ladder before the suspect and Wisp+Seeds allows this thing to cheese past so much I just love it. Cheesing with moves like Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, Wisp, Toxic, CM, Bulk Up, Sub and the like has definitely gotten better and is definitely a strategy I've been fond of recently. Wisp and seeds apply to Geist while the others do not, so I'll stick with them for now. The key thing that Geist has going for it is its high bulk and great typing. It can take an SE physical hit with relative ease if it needs to, which is more than a lot of things can boast, and it is the most reliable spinblocker to Excadrill due to its bulk+typing+wisp allowing it to block its spins, eat its EQs and stop SD from ruining your day before the cheesing begins. Too much stuff gets worn down insanely quickly while Gourgeist also heals a lot, making it hard to break through for most physical attackers.

 

[Pardus]

Does Skill Swap have any merit on Gourgeist? Never used him before in OU but your gonna get set up on by clef without toxic and talonflame still beats you, not to mention they can just switch out. I'd rather just run rock slide to catch Talon on the switch. The only things I can think of that it helps against are Mega Sableye (again needs Toxic) and Heatran, who you still lose to with this set.

You could run toxic, as mentioned in the set, but the main purpose is to cripple things, not beat them. For example, Talonflame is really only OU because of its ability. Remove that, and it loses so much power.

 

[Flares.]

Gourgeist @ Leftovers
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

Hello,I think this set works best for gourgeist this is because with this set your able to beat most mons such as Excadrill,latios,azumarill,landorus-therian,lopunny etc.This set allows Latios to not destroy gourgeist as it is low chance and could synthesis right after the draco meteor.Also it has the ability to live knock off from both azu and bisharp( I doubt anyone would stay in just to knock off and risk will-o but ok),then will-o-wisp right after,As well as it has the ability to live +2 from both excadrill and garchomp ( I doubt anyone would actually risk a will-o-wisp on both mons but ok)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-355560987 in the example shown here you could see gourgeist living a draco from latios.

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 268-316 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Gourgeist-Large: 308-363 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 183-216 (51.6 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery'

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 273-322 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 261-308 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 262-310 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[SketchUp]

Thanks to a high attack stat, high base power moves and a good ability in Moxie, Honchkrow is a terrifying wallbreaking on paper. With a 105 SpA stat, it can even run moves like Heat Wave and Icy Wind to beat checks such as Skarmory, Landorus-T and Tankchomp. However, because Honchkrow is pretty slow and has a very low defense stat, it is vulnerable to faster attackers, most of which will OHKO it. On top of that, Honchkrow is worn down pretty quickly due to recoil from Rocky Helmet, Life Orb and Brave Bird, as well as a Stealth Rock weakness. Does Honchkrow fulfill a niche in OU despite these weaknesses? If so, what set should you run on Honchkrow and on what teams does Honchkrow fit well? Discuss!

Next Week:

 

[Martin]

The biggest thing that Honchkrow has going for it is the ability to go mixed with a set of Sucker Punch+Brave Bird+Heat Wave/Icy Wind+Dark Pulse/Icy Wind/Pursuit, which makes it a really scary wallbreaker in general. The key thing holding it back is its low speed, but naughty Honchkrow's Sucker Punches hit just as hard as adamant Bisharp's so if a team has a hard time with Bisharp it has also has a pretty shitty matchup vs. this thing. Also the fact that it has an extra 1 base speed over Bisharp means that it can naturally creep stuff that creeps ada/jolly bisharp (depending on naive vs. naughty).

 

[TURBODERP]

I think running Icy Wind on Honchkrow has merit simply because the most common checks/counters to this thing are gonna be RH Garchomp and Lando-T. Icy Wind also helps since the Speed drop REALLY helps out Honchkrow.

 

[Flares.]

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Icy Wind/pursuit

Hello,this is my Honchkrow set this typical standard 252 attack 252 spd 4 spa.Sucker punch allows for priority which can help revenge kill pokemon.Brave bird is another thing simply for stab and hitting really hard.Superpower hits both tar,ferro,bisharp,excadrill all the other sh*t.Now as for icy wind it hits most ground types such as landorus-therian,garchomp etc.As for pursuit it's able to predict mons like starmie and latios who are scared of sucker punch to switch out.Shit on them with pursuit.

4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 260-307 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Icy Wind vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 250-296 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 221-263 (62.7 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 520-614 (129 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 377-447 (116.3 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 398-471 (133.1 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 187-221 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 165-196 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

 

[Martin]

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Icy Wind/pursuit

Hello,this is my Honchkrow set this typical standard 252 attack 252 spd 4 spa.Sucker punch allows for priority which can help revenge kill pokemon.Brave bird is another thing simply for stab and hitting really hard.Superpower hits both tar,ferro,bisharp,excadrill all the other sh*t.Now as for icy wind it hits most ground types such as landorus-therian,garchomp etc.As for pursuit it's able to predict mons like starmie and latios who are scared of sucker punch to switch out.Shit on them with pursuit.

0- SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 234-276 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Icy Wind vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 224-265 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 244-289 (69.3 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 567-671 (140.6 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 416-491 (128.3 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 437-515 (146.1 - 172.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 191-226 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 183-216 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just a note, but you've listed hasty in your set but then done all of your calcs for adamant.

 

[Flares.]

ah shit my bad