Overshadowed: Dragonite Discussion

[ADH]

Last Draggy discussion was in early February and wasn't well laid out.

Dragonite (Dragon / Flying)
Base Stats: 91 HP / 134 Atk / 95 Def / 100 SAtk / 100 SDef / 80 Spd
Ability: Inner Focus (Prevents flinching)

Since Salamence and Dragonite are pretty much competing for the DD dragon or special dragon position I'll bold those things that Dragonite has over Salamence. Italics will be what Dragonite has over the physical Garchomp.

Notable Physical Movepool
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dive
Outrage
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
Aqua Tail
Waterfall
Focus Punch
Brick Beak
Aerial Ace
Stone Edge
Rock Slide
Earthquake

Notable Special Movepool
Dragon Pulse
Meteoric Swarm
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Flamethrower
Fire Blast
Focus Bomb
Surf

Notable Support Moves
Thunder Wave
Dragon Dance
Feather Rest
Substitute
Light Screen
Haze
Heal Bell (XD)

When looking at Dragonite's movepool in that way you can see that there's plenty of things that Draggy can do that Salamence and Garchomp can't. There's one major reason, though, that Garchomp and Salamence are usually preferred over Dragonite: their base stat allocations. Dragonite has a measly 80 speed as compared to Salamence's 100 and Garchomp's 102. Its SAtk is 100 compared to Salamence's 110. Despite this, Dragonite's vastly superior movepool makes it a good choice over Salamence and Garchomp IMO if your team needs a varied sweeper.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 200 HP / 104 Def / 148 SAtk / 56 SDef
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse
-Focus Bomb
-Feather Rest

Hits everything in the game not named Shedinja for at least neutral damage. Thunderbolt will usually OHKO Jumpman's bulky Gyarados, but Phuquoph's has a better chance of surviving thanks to those special defense EVs. Ice Fang from Gyarados is always a 2HKO against Dragonite before +2 DD, meaning Draggy can't switch into it but can threaten Gyarados should it get in. Ice Beam is better than Dragon Pulse at taking on any dragon not named Kingdra, but Dragon Pulse deals more damage to other opponents. Focus Bomb hits TTar hard and does reasonable damage to Blissey (should it hit).

Dragonite @ Choice Glasses
Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk) or Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Dragon Pulse / Meteoric Swarm
-Focus Bomb

Salamence is probably better at this, but it's worth mentioning because Draggy has boltbeam.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake

DD Outrage kills a LOT of stuff. Fire Blast is for Skarmory and Bronzong, Earthquake is for Metagross / Jirachi / etc.

 

[Jumpman16]

Since (and probably including) RBY Dragonite hasn't really had all that much going for it compared to its peers, but it is really, really going to be hard for me not to love this thing, especially ingame since it gets Dragon Dance naturally now (where Salamence does not). Even though its peers all still generally outperform him, it gains a lot in DP with Feather Rest, Focus Bomb, and Outrage becoming physical. I'd probably stick to the DDer, though, cause not being able to reach 299 speed even when Timid really hurts the other versions.

PS:

Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's once-Dragon Danced Ice Fang on a 373HP/252Def (near-max/40%) Dragonite: 96-113%

That's pretty much a OHKO everytime, and, of course, my Gyarados only has 16 Attack EVs, so I don't know where you went wrong in your calculations. (also at full HP you'll only OHKO it with TB 48% of the time but now i am just nitpicking lol)

 

[ADH]

Since (and probably including) RBY Dragonite hasn't really had all that much going for it compared to its peers, but it is really, really going to be hard for me not to love this thing, especially ingame since it gets Dragon Dance naturally now (where Salamence does not). Even though its peers all still generally outperform him, it gains a lot in DP with Feather Rest, Focus Bomb, and Outrage becoming physical. I'd probably stick to the DDer, though, cause not being able to reach 299 speed even when Timid really hurts the other versions.

PS:

Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's once-Dragon Danced Ice Fang on a 373HP/252Def (near-max/40%) Dragonite: 96-113%

That's pretty much a OHKO everytime, and, of course, my Gyarados only has 16 Attack EVs, so I don't know where you went wrong in your calculations. (also at full HP you'll only OHKO it with TB 48% of the time but now i am just nitpicking lol)

I was speaking of prior to Gyarados DDing like I usually mean, but that's probably rather foolish of myself for sticking to that silly notion that Gyarados won't DD when it comes out ever. DD Gyarados gives Dragonite lots of trouble, but seriously there are few things that DD Gyarados DOESN'T give any trouble to, the main ones I can think of being Lapras (without Stone Edge), Swampert, and Bronzong (although Bronzong can't do anything back).

 

[Misty]

DD/Outrage is definitely a potent way to get a late-game sweep, and it's unique to Dragonite (not counting Rayquaza).

Otherwise I don't see a whole lot worth mentioning... the mixed sweeper does good against Blissey, but pretty much does dick-all to Cresselia.

 

[octazookas]

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 64 Atk / 136 Spd / 204 SAtk
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteoric Swarm/Dragon Claw

is what I use most.
I made the evs to 2hko all bulky waters save pert, who won't like that meteoric swarm.
fp ohkos bliss and shit.
ice beam for dragons or gabby who starts thinking he can come in on thunderbolts.
but the hp and speed evs are fucked up, I just gave it ~240 to beat stuff that aims from 220-236ish.

also nicked d4agonjte on sppf since i'm the only one who uses it there =/

 

[Jibaku]

DD/Outrage needs more Life Orb IMO

First set needs Focus Punch if you don't want Blissey switching into you

 

[IcyShock]

Don't forget that Earthquqke is also in Dragonite's phys. movepool.

 

[hollabackitsobi]

I like Dragonite@AG Meteoric Swarm/Focus Punch/Thunderbolt/Fire Blast.
It does massive damage to pretty much everything, if you can get it in twice and hit something that would be good. I wish it wasn't so slow.

 

[the Lexx]

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 64 Atk / 136 Spd / 204 SAtk
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteoric Swarm/Dragon Claw

is what I use most.
I made the evs to 2hko all bulky waters save pert, who won't like that meteoric swarm.
fp ohkos bliss and shit.
ice beam for dragons or gabby who starts thinking he can come in on thunderbolts.
but the hp and speed evs are fucked up, I just gave it ~240 to beat stuff that aims from 220-236ish.

also nicked d4agonjte on sppf since i'm the only one who uses it there =/

I was thinking of a similar set:

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 36 Atk / 252 Spd / 220 SAtk
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Focus Punch
- Meteoric Swarm
- Thunderbolt

252 Speed to at least tie most Heracross. Fire Blast is over Ice Beam to prevent you from being walled by Forretress, etc. I'm starting to like Dragonite more and more every time I see it, it doesn't get walled by *physical wall*/Blissey.
Life Orb'd Meteoric Swarm does heavy damage to... pretty much everything.

 

[e4protector]

Dragonite is a Pokemon that was meant to be set up IMO. This screams for something like EspyJump/CeleJump.

In Advance I used just that, with the following set (modified, physical/special problems)
Dragonite @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SAtk/32 HP/224 Spd
Nature: Modest (SAtk+/Atk-)
- Agility
- Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

CM up with EspyJump or CeleJump and BP off. Agility because EspyJump/CeleJump counters are not Dragonite counters (generally) and sweep.

 

[Surgo]

CM up with EspyJump or CeleJump and BP off. Agility because EspyJump/CeleJump counters are not Dragonite counters (generally) and sweep.

Any. Special. Sweeper.

 

[Phuquoph]

Plus, you'll have problems passing to Dragonite if Metagross or Weavile shows up against Celebi or Espeon.

 

[e4protector]

If I remember correctly, Pursuit isn't affected by BP and Celebi/Espeon outspeed Gross. Weavile might be a problem though.

 

[cookie]

If you're going for the special set you're going to use @AG/Meteoric Swarm/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Focus Punch, because Life Orb won't deal enough damage. This is sort of outdone by Salamence, which is faster and can use Dugtrio to take care of Blissey (sort of).

Dragon Dance+Outrage is fucking evil late-game: get everything faster than Dragonite after 1 DD paralysed/dead, weaken/kill Steel types and go to town. Nothing else will get in your way.