OU Pelipper

[antemortem]

[OVERVIEW]

• Drizzle is a huge boon to the potential of rain teams.
• Pelipper has tons of utility in the form of U-turn, Defog, Knock Off, and Toxic.
  
• It has huge defensive bulk.
• Its dismal Speed is great for getting in rain sweepers safely with a slow U-turn.
• It has decent Special Attack but a very shallow coverage movepool.

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Hurricane / Defog
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Roost
item: Damp Rock / Leftovers
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Scald is used for STAB rain-boosted coverage and token burns.
• Rain-conferred perfect-accuracy Hurricane is useful STAB coverage against Grass-types (think Mega Venusaur or Tapu Bulu). Defog provides practical entry hazard removal if a team lacks it otherwise. Knock Off can be run in this slot for spamming item removal.
  
• Pelipper's slow U-turn brings in an awaiting rain sweeper.
• Roost is instrumental in keeping rain active when most opportune.

Set Details
========

• The EVs give Pelipper a high chance of surviving a Wood Hammer from 252 Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu with one round of Stealth Rock damage.
• 200 Def / 60 SpD EVs ensure that Life Orb Pheromosa never 2HKOes Pelipper with Ice Beam.

Usage Tips
========

• Pelipper will want to U-turn out to rain sweepers or VoltTurn core members.
• Scald is a safe option in almost any situation, even against resisted targets for the potential burn.
• Defog should be used on non-hyper offense teams needing entry hazard support to ensure longevity of constant switches (very important for VoltTurn builds); even balance builds will appreciate not having to wallow through a layer of Stealth Rock + Toxapex's Toxic Spikes, for example.
• Roost should be used liberally when Pelipper takes chip damage or tanks a physical hit to ensure that it is able to come back in to set rain later in the game.

Team Options
========

• Swift Swim rain sweepers such as Kingdra, Kabutops, and Ludicolo take advantage of Drizzle.
• Electric-types such as Tapu Koko, Rotom-W, Magnezone, and Thundurus-T provide excellent defensive synergy with Pelipper, helping to complete VoltTurn cores.
• Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Scizor benefit from rain lessening the power of Fire-type moves so they can help deal with Electric-types that carry Fire-type coverage moves.
• Alolan Marowak has Lightning Rod-conferred synergy and helps deal with Ferrothorn and Alolan Ninetales when rain is replaced by hail.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Pelipper benefits little from any other coverage moves, but Ice Beam is available.
• Hydro Pump is a more powerful STAB Water-type move without the potential burns.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Tapu Koko, Thundurus-T, Magnezone, and Rotom-W are unfettered by Pelipper's coverage options.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Scald and Hurricane only deal negligible damage to the likes of Clefable, Ferrothorn, Chansey, Suicune, Alomomola, and Toxapex, and most of them can retaliate by healing off burns, setting up, or using Toxic.

**Special Attackers**: Since Pelipper is ridiculously slow, most strong special attackers such as Tapu Lele, Latios, Landorus running Sludge Wave, and Greninja can put a considerable dent in Pelipper despite its considerable HP.

**Mega Charizard Y**: Mega Charizard Y is able to change the weather upon Mega Evolving, weaken Pelipper's Scald under sun, and threaten to OHKO defensive variants with an unresisted Solar Beam.

**Alolan Ninetales**: Alolan Ninetales takes negligible damage from all of Pelipper's attacks and can OHKO it with Freeze-Dry; it also can trump Pelipper's rain-setting ability with Snow Warning.

**Stealth Rock**: Pelipper's health can be supplemented by Roost, but it won't want to waste turns trying to heal when it narrowly avoids 2HKOs from stronger physical attackers like Tapu Bulu.

 

[Rakan]

Might wanna mention Alolan Ninetales as a decent check as it eliminates rain with Snow Warning and takes little damage from Pelipper's coverage moves and can OHKO with Freeze-Dry, and even proceed to set up with Aurora Veil on the switch out.

 

[dk]

I'd personally write out the set like this:

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Hurricane / Defog / Knock Off
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Roost
item: Damp Rock
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

Scald is mandatory, U-turn is what makes this so much better than Toed, and Roost is extremely key in keeping your weather setter alive. If running dual Swift Swimmers, Kingdra and Kabutops are your best bet, and Kabutops can potentially run Rapid Spin. I'd also mention a SpDef spread somewhere to deal with Zard-Y, which annoys the hell out of rain teams.

 

[Afti]

Nitpick and quite possibly a dumb question, but: why -Attack instead of -Speed? If a large part of Pelipper's utility is in its slow U-turn... is there anything it actually wants to outrun? -Speed (and a 0 Speed IV for good measure) doesn't actually outslow anything particularly important off the top of my head, (you always U-turn after CB Scizor, which is neat I guess even if CB Scizor has seen better days) but it seems like it'd be useful in edge cases regardless and I don't think Pelipper actually has anything it wants to move ahead of with its speed tier?

And a little more chip damage from U-turn and Knock Off doesn't seem bad, either? It's a very marginal distinction, but off the top of my head I can't think of any utility Pelipper loses by running -Spe.

Feel free to disregard that in the (not unlikely) event that I missed something important, of course.

 

[p2]

ferro as a counter sounds zzz since peli just defogs its hazards after burning with scald

i would change toxa to specially defensive mons and include things like chansey clefable alomomola suicune which all take 0 and either setup on peli or toxic it

1/3

 

[blank]

• i don't think it's worth mentioning alolan marowak because pelipper's main thing is rain, and marowak's fb gets weakened in the rain among other things. there are other electric answers: ferrothorn under rain takes very little from tapu koko HP fire, for example, and nobody is really running thundurus, meaning you don't need to worry about that (focus blast).
• you should absolutely change the set layout to be like what daddy's kisses's said above. scald, u-turn, and roost are pretty much absolutely necessary; u-turn gives pelipper a major edge over politoed as a bulky pivot (slow turn out), and roost gives it longevity that poli can't compete with. scald is obligatory stab + burns. defog, hurricane, toxic, and knock off are all great moves for the final slot like you mentioned, of course; it really just depends on what the pelipper user needs on their team. you can probably just do "hurricane / defog" and mention knock and toxic in the set description, but i'll let 3rd QC decide what's most optimal for that.
• i agree with p2 on changing toxapex and ferrothorn to a general special defensive mons section. you probably shouldn't mention ferro down there for the reasons he said, but either way i think it's pretty minor.
• we get it u goofball you love ludicolo; mention kingdra first and ludicolo second and stop being such a special snowflake. i'm not sure how viable ludicolo is, but it's too early to know if there's harm in mentioning it. i'd also mention kabutops here; not sure about omaoma though.
• the team options section could probably be broken up into "electrics" and "steels" instead of voltturners and mag being listed separately. you could put koko, thundurus-t, magnezone, and rotom-w i guess in the electrics section, and you could put mega scizor and ferrothorn in the steels section. mention how those electrics can help peli with volt switch in their section, and mention how scizor can help it with u-turn (briefly) in that section. also mention how steels take less from fire under rain and how ferro helps with beating electrics because of it.

good job 2/3

 

[Lemonade]

Alolan Marowak is still pretty cool imo. Limited rain turns + 4x weak targets + Thick Club means Flare Blitz is hitting hard enough (16+ FB does 90%+ to Ferro and M-Scizor variants in rain). Yes birdo walls both and whittles them down with burn, but Ferro is still annoying while burned and probably forcing the switch is useful. Also Fire / Ghost wrecks Ninetales's Ice / Fairy.

 

[Revelation]

Nitpick and quite possibly a dumb question, but: why -Attack instead of -Speed? If a large part of Pelipper's utility is in its slow U-turn... is there anything it actually wants to outrun? -Speed (and a 0 Speed IV for good measure) doesn't actually outslow anything particularly important off the top of my head, (you always U-turn after CB Scizor, which is neat I guess even if CB Scizor has seen better days) but it seems like it'd be useful in edge cases regardless and I don't think Pelipper actually has anything it wants to move ahead of with its speed tier?

And a little more chip damage from U-turn and Knock Off doesn't seem bad, either? It's a very marginal distinction, but off the top of my head I can't think of any utility Pelipper loses by running -Spe.

Feel free to disregard that in the (not unlikely) event that I missed something important, of course.

The slowest weather setter's ability activates last as well so reducing speed might benefit weather wars if it can get slower than Tyranitar or Hippowdon

 

[BobSol]

you should add zard-y as a check as it changes the weather after mega evolving

 

[NVT_Sart]

I just checked the Speed tiers quick.

Relaxed/Sassy nature + 9 Spe IVs makes you 1 point slower than Hippowdon, and a HELL lot slower than TTar, both Ninetales formes and Char-Y, so this could/should definitely be added to the spread and set details.

The only problem you might get with this is if Hippowdons start negatively speed creeping you too (should weather wars become a thing), or if Hail teams start using Abomasnow over Ninetales, but at least the latter is VERY unlikely.

 

[Martin]

I'd rather be able to scald defensive Tar variants before they click Stone Edge personally. If your opponent keeps hippo in on you even under sand they're completely nuts, meaning that you can just grab momentum as they switch out anyway, and given that this only really has utility on lead matchups and double-downs it feels super duper pointless trying to lower your speed to get weather up before them when the only notable setters you're faster than (exc. Zard Y as that just MEs and overwrites the rain anyway) are vulnerable to Scald, while Pelipper is still plenty slow enough to make reducing IVs a very subjective thing a-la 30 IV Rotom-W. If anything I'd mention some positive benchmarks in set details to outpace defensive 'mons who don't appreciate Scald (e.g. 84 to scald uninvested Mega Scizor before it can use U-turn)

 

[Lemonade]

I just checked the Speed tiers quick.

Relaxed/Sassy nature + 9 Spe IVs makes you 1 point slower than Hippowdon, and a HELL lot slower than TTar, both Ninetales formes and Char-Y, so this could/should definitely be added to the spread and set details.

The only problem you might get with this is if Hippowdons start negatively speed creeping you too (should weather wars become a thing), or if Hail teams start using Abomasnow over Ninetales, but at least the latter is VERY unlikely.

hmm I think this is similar to positive speed creeping though. Assuming weather wars are important enough, you could just advise Hippowdon to run 30 Speed IVs, and it would go back and forth until Hippowdon wins the slow war. These kinds of spreads are what you should do secretly depending on if you want to be slower or not.

 

[NVT_Sart]

hmm I think this is similar to positive speed creeping though. Assuming weather wars are important enough, you could just advise Hippowdon to run 30 Speed IVs, and it would go back and forth until Hippowdon wins the slow war. These kinds of spreads are what you should do secretly depending on if you want to be slower or not.

Yeah, fair point tbh

 

[antemortem]

Alright, thanks everyone. I added in everything I thought was necessary + the QC checks.

Ready for 3/3.

 

[Hootie]

I'd include the spdef spread instead since being able to check Pheromosa is just crucial with it in the tier. Avoiding the 2HKO from Tapu Bulu's Horn Leech is moot when it has Wood Hammer anyways. Move the Knock Off mention that's listed in Set Details to Moves instead. Add in situations when it's best to Roost in usage tips.

Looks good, 3/3

 

[antemortem]

Done, moved to GP!

 

[P Squared]

even though they're skeletons, the bullets still need to be complete sentences (this was the policy for the XY previews)
GP 1/1

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

• Drizzle is a huge boon to the potential of rain teams.
• Pelipper has tons of utility in the form of U-turn, Defog, Knock Off, and Toxic.
  
• It has huge defensive bulk.
• Its dismal Speed is great for great slow U-Turning for getting in rain sweepers safely with a slow U-turn.
• It has decent Special Attack, (RC) but a very shallow coverage movepool.

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Hurricane / Defog
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Roost
item: Damp Rock / Leftovers
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 52 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Scald is used for STAB rain-boosted coverage and token burns.
• Rain-conferred perfect-accuracy Hurricane is useful STAB Grass-type coverage against Grass-types (think Mega Venusaur / or Tapu Bulu). Defog is provides practical entry hazard removal if a team lacks it otherwise. Knock Off can be run in this slot for spamming item removal.
  
• U-turn confers (kind of a weird word choice here...? idk) a slow switch to an awaiting rain sweeper.
• Roost is instrumental in keeping rain active when most opportune.

Set Details
========

• The EVs ensure that you Pelipper can survive a Wood Hammer from 252 Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu with one round of Stealth Rock damage.
• You can run 200 Def / 60 SpD EVs to ensure that Life Orb Pheromosa never 2HKOes Pelipper with Ice Beam.

Usage Tips
========

• Pelipper will want to slow U-turn out to rain sweepers or VoltTurn core members.
• Scald is a safe option in almost any situation, even against resisted targets for the potential burn.
• Defog should be used on non-hyper offense teams needing entry hazard support to ensure longevity of constant switches (very important for VoltTurn builds); even balance builds will appreciate not having to wallow through a layer of Stealth Rock + Toxapex's Toxic Spikes, for example.
• Roost should be used liberally when Pelipper takes chip damage or tanks a physical hit to ensure that it is able to come back in to set rain later in the game.

Team Options
========

• Swift Swim rain sweepers such as Kingdra, Kabutops, and Ludicolo take advantage of Drizzle.
• Electric-types such as Tapu Koko, Rotom-Wash, Magnezone, and Thundurus-Therian provide excellent defensive synergy with Pelipper, helping to complete VoltTurn cores.
• Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Scizor benefit from rain lessening the power of Fire-type moves so they can help deal with Electric-types that carry Fire-type coverage moves.
• Alolan Marowak has Lightning Rod-conferred synergy and helps deal with Ferrothorn and Alolan Ninetales when rain is replaced by hail.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Pelipper benefits little from any other coverage moves, but Ice Beam is available.
• Hydro Pump is a more powerful STAB Water-type move without the potential burns.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Tapu Koko, Thundurus-Therian, Magnezone, and Rotom-Wash are unfettered by Pelipper's coverage options.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Scald and Hurricane only deal negligible damage to the likes of Clefable, Ferrothorn, Chansey, Suicune, Alomomola, and Toxapex, and most of them can retaliate by healing off burns, setting up, or using Toxic.

**Special Attackers**: Since Pelipper is ridiculously slow, most strong special attackers such as Tapu Lele, Latios, Landorus-I running Sludge Wave, and Greninja, etc. can put a considerable dent in Pelipper despite its considerable HP.

**Mega Charizard Y**: Mega Charizard Y is able to change the weather upon Mega Evolving, weaken Pelipper's Scald under sun, and threaten to OHKO defensive variants with an unresisted Solar Beam.

**Alolan Ninetales**: Alolan Ninetales takes negligible damage from all of Pelipper's attacks and can OHKO it with Freeze-Dry; it also can trump Pelipper's rain-setting ability with Snow Warning.

**Stealth Rock**: Pelipper's health can be supplemented by Roost, but it won't want to waste turns trying to heal when it narrowly avoids 2HKOs from stronger physical attackers on the stronger end of the physical spectrum like Tapu Bulu.

 

[rau]

quick note, but there are 4 EVs left to work with which I'm assuming go to special defense (200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD)

 

[antemortem]

Alright, this is done.

 

[NVT_Sart]

antemortem since you switched the EVs on the main set, you forgot to edit the part about EV options. You talk about a 200 Def/60 SpD set, but that still assumed you ran max HP EVs, something you changed to 200 by now

Edit: Another thing, which might be nitpicking... but the EV spread doesn't really ENSURE it survives LO Wood Hammer after Rocks. There's still a 18,8% chance to OHKO, so maybe change the wording there to something like "gives it a high chance of...":

252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 203-239 (65.2 - 76.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Hootie]

uploaded