ponies versus dragons

[ragazzo]

Hello Smogon!

I made this team, but I still feel there are some problems, so I turn too you, RTM'mers. Idea's, opinions and comments will be highly appreciated.

The team is built around subCM Keldeo, but without weather.

And here are the members:

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Secret Sword

SubCM Keldeo is a very dangerous pokémon. Its stabs are very decent and behind a substitute it can even battle some of its counters pretty well. Substitute also protects it from the status Keldeo hates. Calm mind gives it a nice power boost while also raising its special defence. I use Surf over Hydro Pump for more consistency, it only has one point (96) base power more on average, so consistency is prefered. Secret Sword let it get past special walls. SubCM Keldeo still needs a lot of support to function at its full potential. The rest of the team tries to give this support.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 236 SDef / 252 HP / 20 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Protect

Specially defensive Jirachi can take on many of the fast special threats such as Latios, Alakazam, Gengar, Jolteon, etc that threaten Keldeo. Body Slam has 60% chance to paralyse oponents and except for ghosts. It also paralyses ground types and pokémon with volt absorb. After the oponent is paralysed it can fling it to death with Iron Head. Wish heals itself and it teammates. Protect turns Wish into reliable recovery, is useful for scouting and can also be used to avoid a Disable from Gengar. 20 speed EV makes it outrun Mamoswine, Breloom and Magnezone.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 64 Atk / 244 Def / 200 HP
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Landorus-Therian is a great partner for Jirachi. They have great synergy as they complement each others weakesses very well. I use it as a pivot to swith into many strong physical attacks and ground or electric moves. It is especcially useful to switch into the many figthing types in OU. Because it is very bulky it can set up Stealth Rock many times. Earthquake is its main stab attack and Stone Edge gives it the coveradge it needs. U-turn is the last move to keep momentum if the oponent wants to switch. The main problem I have with Landorus-Therian is that it does not have a relaible form of recovery and can thus be worn down with repeated hits. Gliscor might be a good alternaive, but I'm afraid it will be spikes folder without Tuant or will be useless against flying types without Ice Fang.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Heatran makes a wonderful pokémon on an any team. It has good stats and a great typing. It can come in on many resisted attacks or a fire attack Jirachi draws in. It scare many opponents away and can then set up a substitute. Behind its substitute it can battle most of its counters. Fire Blast is its main stab attack. Earth Power gives it great coverage next to Fire Blast. Hidden Power Ice hits dragons and gliscor super effectively. These moves only miss out on Rotom-W. Heatran is an excellent check to most sun teams if it can set up its substitute and doesn't miss with Fire Blast, but rain makes it a lot less useful. Timid lets Heatran outspeed as many pokémon as possible such as adamant Mamoswine and standard Gliscor.

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch

Conkeldurr makes for a great pokémon on this team as it lures in a lot of the pokémon that trouble Keldeo. Conkeldurr isn't used a lot in the current metagame and Substitute + Focus Punch is has a high surpise factor. An Iron Fist and stab boosted Focus Punch coming from max attack 140 base power hurts everything very hard. Conkeldurr especially lures in Jellicent witch Keldeo can't even scratch and Thunderpunch 2HKOs every Jellicent. It also hurts other pokemon like Tentacruel very hard. Ice Punch gives Conkeldurr great coverage as it hits Gliscor very hard and always KOing Latios after stealth Rock. Ice Punch also hits Celebi who can trouble Keldeo very hard as Conkeldurr lures it in. Its main problem is getting it in. It has to take a hit before setting up its substitute so it loses hp fast. 252 EV in Special defence give Jellicent only 30% chance to break its substitute.

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
Latios is the revenge killer of the team. Draco Meteor is its main attack as it does major damage to everyting that does not resist it. Psychock is a more consistent secundary stab and let it kill Terakion in the sand and Keldeo even if it has Calm Mind boosts. Surf has great coverage alongside Draco Meteor and Thunderbolt is good for killing water types especcially Gyarados.

 

[swwaaggeerr]

I see u losing to a simple stall core as jellicent beats most of ur pokes. Sub punch is kinda outclased by drain punch sets as they survive longer.also u can't use a stab move unless ur behind a sub. I wud replace focus punch with drain punch and sub
Wit mach punch.

 

[Shurtugal]

Hello! Request accepted!

Okay I want to talk a bit about the team dynamic before I go into the rate. This team looks like it was supposed to be built around SubCM Keldeo, and yet you have little to nothing (I include Trick Latios) for Jellicent + Amo stall cores, and that right there sends red flags on my radar. A lot of things have substitute and it's a bit repetitive when each of these mons should have a role to fill and most of the time the subs are not helping you fill them at all. Sun teams in general with Venu are hard to beat especially Timid Venu.

Now, as for your weaknesses: Nothing is switching into CB Scizor or Mamoswine and Jellicent walls everything (granted, not Conk, but Jellicent is usually on a stall core with Hippo and Amo). Tyranitar + Scarf Keldeo is another core that plain kills this team. Sand stall has a field day and SubDisable Gengar is another threat you can't help but lose to as well.

Time to fix things.

1. I find SubTran a bit useless on this team when it can perform a better niche for you to utilize, like MagmaStorm Heatran. Heatran can trap things like Jellicent and proceed to Solar Beam them in the face while it also has the nice niche of trapping and eliminating Tyranitar (whom opposes Latios) and it can also fair well against sun teams in general. I'd switch your nature to Modest and use the standard move set of Magma Storm / Earth Power / Solar Beam / Sunny Day with your choice of Air Balloon or Chople Berry.

2. I would really switch Scarf Latios for LO Latias. The bulk is too important to lose out on against sun teams and walling Keldeo / Rotom-W / etc. is much more important than the speed tier Latios gives. Use the standard move set with 112 Hp / 144 SpA / 252 Spe

3. As for my final change, Conkeldurr slows down the team and Heatran is already beating or luring half of what he's beating so I'd replace him for Fight Gem / Focus Sash Breloom. Being able to set up and kill Jellicent is rather nice but also having the extra rain killer and priority is something that is equally important. It helps vs. Tyranitar + Scarf Keldeo while also helping out vs. Mamoswine.


4. This is for all my minor changes. Use Scald over Surf on Keldeo, Trick over Thunderbolt on Latios, and lastly consider dropping Protect for Stealth Rock on Jirachi so you could utilize Double Dance Landorus. The momentum he brings and the assistance and setting up on things like Terrakion and Jirachi is rather nice and it helps break stall teams further.



That is all from me! I hope I helped.

 

[ragazzo]

Thank you very much Shurtugal! And you too of course swaaggeerr!
I apreciate the time and effort a lot! I wil try your changes and think about the comments.