Other Prototype PU Team, would like some feedback on what to improve.

[quicklite]

To anyone reading this - The team below is out-dated. After hearing feedback, there are some changes I'm planning to make to it, notably of which is giving the tentacool knock off and scald instead of mirror coat and haze, replacing slaking with tauros, and replacing either floatzel or carracosta (not sure which, feedback on this would be appreciated) with roselia. Still, feedback on the team or these changes is accepted and appreciated.

Alright, so this is a new team idea I've been screwing around with. It's been doing so-so so far, but I enjoy using it, so I'm posting it here to see what could replace what, per se.

I'll put the team below, with an explanation for the purpose of each mon. First time doing one of these, so I apologize in advance for any mistakes (or varying generation sprites :P)


So let's start with my lead, then.

Not Rotom-Heat (Rotom-Frost) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick

This guy is my lead, and my main pivot. It has enough speed to outspeed the majority of the tier, bar the actual fast sweepers of course. This thing is used mostly as a powerful pivot; specs volt switch from this guy leaves a dent in just about anything, having the potential to outright kill the frailer mons of the tier. Since a majority of the strategy of this team is to switch in suitable sweepers or one of my two walls for suitable occasions, having something that can do serious damage on the switch is vital. Blizzard is the only ice move this mon gets (for some reason), but nonetheless is good at eliminating ground types that may screw with this mon's strategy. Not to be relied on, though; after all, it has the same accuracy as a focus miss. Those are the only two particularly important moves on the set, so I picked thunderbolt for extra damage and trick for fucking over walls as an afterthought.

Totally a Pokemon (Nosepass) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

This is my physical wall, boasting around 430 defense before Eviolite is factored in, meaning that it isn't really 2HKOed by anything that isn't either boosted or hitting super effectively. Volt Switch is the key to this mon. Although Volt Switch itself doesn't do much, Nosepass's laughable speed combined with a -speed nature means that it basically always uses this last, allowing safe switches to a suitable sweeper. Pain Split is also nice; Nosepass has crappy health, so gets a lot of use out of this move. Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave were more afterthoughts in case Nosepass happens to have more time on its nub-hands.

Hentacruel (Tentacool) @ Eviolite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Mirror Coat
- Toxic Spikes

My special wall. All of its other stats are shit, sure, but 100 base sp. def + eviolite is nothing to laugh at. Since hazards are problematic in a team where switching is common, this is my simple solution to said problem. Rapid Spin needs no explanation; haze stops mons from setting up on this guy, whereas Toxic Spikes discourages other mons from staying in, and may force a switch to a hazard-remover/poison type. Mirror Coat is simply a troll-ish way at getting back at special mons that simply try to whittle tenta down. Yes, it has no recovery, but isn't supposed to survive the match anyway, tbh.


And now for my three sweepers, starting with the weirdest.


Lazy Bastard (Slaking) @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Night Slash
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

A slaking? To be honest, I'm not sure of this mon myself, but it has still helped me out on numerous occasions (though I'd be all ears to a replacement mon). Slaking outspeeds a sizeable portion of the metagame with a Jolly Nature, and after being banded not much can take a hit from it. The obvious issue is Truant, but due to the nature of the team, it gets lots of chances to switch in, and has good switches out. As for moves, return is STAB, Night Slash for ghosts, EQ for rock/steel, sucker punch for priority (in case I fuck up with a setup sweeper or something)


Harbringer (Carracosta) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge

This guy's gotta be one of my favorite end-game cleaners, and is the win-condition of this team. The idea behind this is that Carracosta is the perfect trap. Send it in (don't switch it in) on something that you know can super effectively hit the mon. When it inevitably does, you use shell smash, surviving with sturdy (which ofc only works if you can rid yourself of hazards, so tentacool >_>). The combination of shell smash and WP triples its attack and doubles its speed, making it the mother of all end-game cleaners, only really stopped by fake out users or the rare faster priority user (basically only sneasel), but acts as a win-condition when such mons are taken care of. Waterfall and Stone Edge hits the entire metagame, OHKOing pretty much all of it, and aqua jet is for priority on the rare faster mon.

Cleaner (Floatzel) @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Switcheroo
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Punch

This guy is simply a no-holds-barred end-game cleaner. It can outspeed the entire metagame with a speed on par with sneasel's, can deal some substantial damage with a band, and can ignore will-o-wisp with the help of water veil. Waterfall, Crunch, and Ice Punch pretty much hit the entire metagame, and Switcheroo is good as a last ditch effort to screw over a wall. However, this mon feels a bit half-baked, and I'd be open to switching this guy for another fast end-game sweeper.

Main problems with this team is the obvious lack of special attack, aside from my specced Rotom-F. Although there aren't that many really beefy physical walls in PU, there still are a few (such as Tangela, Avalugg, and to some degree Nosepass), and this team still is open to being screwed over by a few well-placed burns or paralyzings.

So, what do you guys think? Currently, I feel like I should switch out either the Floatzel or the Slaking, but for what? Is there anything about this team that just doesn't fit, or would work better?

 

[KnightK]

To be honest this team looks just...bad. Many of the movesets are poor. There is very little covering of the different weaknesses of the pokemon. 4/6 pokemon are weak to fighting with only 1 resist, 3/6 pokemon are weak to ground moves including both your physical and special wall, and you have 3/6 pokemon with an electric weakness without any ground immunity meaning any team with a volt switcher such as your own Rotom-F will destroy this team.

If you are dead set on using this team though and really wish to improve it I will give you some advice. Since you already suggested removing Floatzel and Slaking I would replace Floatzel with Vileplume immediately. Vileplume actually fits on this team incredibly well. It helps cover your fighting and electric weakness and gives you the extra special attacker you were needing. Also looking at your pokemon icon I think Hypno would fit well in the slaking slot. Helps alleviate your fighting weakness and could serve as a wish passer which is especially useful for tentacool as it lacks recovery.

Replace tentacool's mirror coat with scald as soon as possible. Even with haze every pokemon ideally should have at least one reliable attack move. And the burns besides being obviously useful can help you set up shell smashes on a crippled pokemon.

 

[Lord Alphose]

Hi, and welcome to Smogon. Sorta. A couple months. Welcome anyways...

I do quite like this team. A couple of LC mons seriously pulling their weight. That's some quality crap. Also, I like Carracosta's set. It's super gimmicky, but it does a surprisingly good job. It's a really fun team to play with.

I did, however, make some changes to this team as I played with it on the ladder, and I suggest you try these changes out myself. First off, I really didn't like Slaking. And, like you said, it really is interchangeable. The change I suggest making is Slaking ---> Tauros. Tauros functions similarly, with a completely offensive set, just like Slaking. However, its ability doesn't make me want to punch myself in the face. Here's the set I ran on it:

Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Climb
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt

You can name it whatever you want, lol. Sheer Force benefits Rock Climb, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt, plus Rock Climb gets STAB. I suggest using that to break through most walls so that Floatzel can come in nicely and clean up, like it does.

Also, you're terribly Electric-type weak. You lack any switch-in to any special Electric-type attack, even one without much power. As such, I suggest a Ground-type to pull some weight on you team. And, despite Carracosta being fun, it doesn't do what it should reliably enough, especially once any legitimate player figures out what's going on. I suggest replacing Carracosta ---> Torterra. A Ground-type terror and fun to play with. It also shouldn't be hard to play with its weaknesses, as Ice-types are easily covered by Nosepass and Tentacool. Here's the set I used:

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

It should cover your Electric-type weakness with its typing and help with you Fighting-type weakness with that insane physical bulk. You could potentially run Stealth Rock on it, but Nosepass does a solid job of doing that anyways.

I also changed a couple of moves and items on some of the Pokemon. First, I found that Tentacool came in really nicely on a lot of Pokemon, but once it was in, it was an absolute deadweight. Because of that I made two changes to its moveset: Haze ---> Scald and Mirror Coar ---> Knock Off. Knock Off is great for Tentacool, as it helps Tauros and Floatzel clean up later. Pokemon are much easier to take out if they have no items lol. Scald can be used to hopefully burn physical Pokemon that try to come in and take advantage of Tentacool's meager Defense. I faced a similar problem with Nosepass. So, I changed Pain Split ---> Power Gem. That's actually the standard set. This way, you get some STAB attack.

These are they changes that worked out best for me. I hope you try them and they work for you. Have fun :)

~~LA

@ guy above me above me, Vileplume isn't PU. Sorry bout that.

 

[quicklite]

To be honest this team looks just...bad. Many of the movesets are poor. There is very little covering of the different weaknesses of the pokemon. 4/6 pokemon are weak to fighting with only 1 resist, 3/6 pokemon are weak to ground moves including both your physical and special wall, and you have 3/6 pokemon with an electric weakness without any ground immunity meaning any team with a volt switcher such as your own Rotom-F will destroy this team.

If you are dead set on using this team though and really wish to improve it I will give you some advice. Since you already suggested removing Floatzel and Slaking I would replace Floatzel with Vileplume immediately. Vileplume actually fits on this team incredibly well. It helps cover your fighting and electric weakness and gives you the extra special attacker you were needing. Also looking at your pokemon icon I think Hypno would fit well in the slaking slot. Helps alleviate your fighting weakness and could serve as a wish passer which is especially useful for tentacool as it lacks recovery.

Replace tentacool's mirror coat with scald as soon as possible. Even with haze every pokemon ideally should have at least one reliable attack move. And the burns besides being obviously useful can help you set up shell smashes on a crippled pokemon.

To be honest...this is unsurprising. I technically have another PU team, and this one was mostly me fucking around. I knew all the obvious weaknesses and stuff, and wanted to see if I could actually improve it in some way, being very new to the pu metagame and not knowing what works.

Anyhow, I had no idea Vileplume made it to PU, so thanks for pointing that out to me. What EVs would you recommend running on that, for that matter? And how exactly does Vileplume work as an offensive mon? I've only ever really seen it as a wall.

It has been pointed out that Vileplume actually isn't PU. Ah well.

As for Hypno, I'm still unsure. Using a hypno wouldn't leave me with very many options to actually do damage to the enemy team, unless I've got the complete wrong idea re Vileplume. I mean, if fighting is my problem, I could always try to cover the weakness with a bug mon, maybe a U-turn user...are there any in this tier?

 

[quicklite]

Hi, and welcome to Smogon. Sorta. A couple months. Welcome anyways...

I do quite like this team. A couple of LC mons seriously pulling their weight. That's some quality crap. Also, I like Carracosta's set. It's super gimmicky, but it does a surprisingly good job. It's a really fun team to play with.

I did, however, make some changes to this team as I played with it on the ladder, and I suggest you try these changes out myself. First off, I really didn't like Slaking. And, like you said, it really is interchangeable. The change I suggest making is Slaking ---> Tauros. Tauros functions similarly, with a completely offensive set, just like Slaking. However, its ability doesn't make me want to punch myself in the face. Here's the set I ran on it:

Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Climb
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt

You can name it whatever you want, lol. Sheer Force benefits Rock Climb, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt, plus Rock Climb gets STAB. I suggest using that to break through most walls so that Floatzel can come in nicely and clean up, like it does.

Also, you're terribly Electric-type weak. You lack any switch-in to any special Electric-type attack, even one without much power. As such, I suggest a Ground-type to pull some weight on you team. And, despite Carracosta being fun, it doesn't do what it should reliably enough, especially once any legitimate player figures out what's going on. I suggest replacing Carracosta ---> Torterra. A Ground-type terror and fun to play with. It also shouldn't be hard to play with its weaknesses, as Ice-types are easily covered by Nosepass and Tentacool. Here's the set I used:

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis

It should cover your Electric-type weakness with its typing and help with you Fighting-type weakness with that insane physical bulk. You could potentially run Stealth Rock on it, but Nosepass does a solid job of doing that anyways.

I also changed a couple of moves and items on some of the Pokemon. First, I found that Tentacool came in really nicely on a lot of Pokemon, but once it was in, it was an absolute deadweight. Because of that I made two changes to its moveset: Haze ---> Scald and Mirror Coar ---> Knock Off. Knock Off is great for Tentacool, as it helps Tauros and Floatzel clean up later. Pokemon are much easier to take out if they have no items lol. Scald can be used to hopefully burn physical Pokemon that try to come in and take advantage of Tentacool's meager Defense. I faced a similar problem with Nosepass. So, I changed Pain Split ---> Power Gem. That's actually the standard set. This way, you get some STAB attack.

These are they changes that worked out best for me. I hope you try them and they work for you. Have fun :)

~~LA

@ guy above me above me, Vileplume isn't PU. Sorry bout that.

Thanks for the feedback, man!I've definitely seen a lot of Tauros usage, and now that you mention it, the guy would fit rather nicely into this team. As for the Torterra, that's actually a really nice idea. And I do have a painful surplus of water types. But then the question is, which mon do you think works better as an end-game sweeper, Floatzel or Carracosta? Although you're right about Carracosta being extremely gimmicky, I'm still unsure about Floatzel's ability to do enough damage to properly clean. What was your experience with those two?

And about that Tentacool. My main concern with the thing is that its sp. def is the only stat that isn't laughable, so giving it attacking moves seemed like a waste of time. Can it actually damage stuff with those two moves? Though I'll admit, I should probably test that, so I'll do the changes to tenta and nosepass.

Thanks for the welcome, by the way. Although it ain't 100% true (been playing for a while, got to 1500 on NU once. New the forums and PU tho! ^^), I still really appreciate the friendly gesture, especially when still learning how to be competitive in...well, every other tier :P

However, it's getting rather late for where I'm at, so I'll make the changes to the main post tomorrow.

 

[KnightK]

To be honest...this is unsurprising. I technically have another PU team, and this one was mostly me fucking around. I knew all the obvious weaknesses and stuff, and wanted to see if I could actually improve it in some way, being very new to the pu metagame and not knowing what works.

Anyhow, I had no idea Vileplume made it to PU, so thanks for pointing that out to me. What EVs would you recommend running on that, for that matter? And how exactly does Vileplume work as an offensive mon? I've only ever really seen it as a wall.

As for Hypno, I'm still unsure. Using a hypno wouldn't leave me with very many options to actually do damage to the enemy team, unless I've got the complete wrong idea re Vileplume. I mean, if fighting is my problem, I could always try to cover the weakness with a bug mon, maybe a U-turn user...are there any in this tier?

Sorry if I came off a little strong I do think this team has potential just with some significant edits. I really do think Vileplume is a must for this team what type of vileplume you want to have it up to you. The physically defensive Vileplume with black sludge is a monster but you could definitely run it more offensively. Now that I think about it some more I wouldn't run Hypno actually...between Nosepass, Tentacool, and Hypno you would have too little offensive prowess. Definitely go with what the other guy above me said and run Tauros it performs a similar role to Slaking without Truant and is generally more consistent in kos.

 

[quicklite]

Sorry if I came off a little strong I do think this team has potential just with some significant edits. I really do think Vileplume is a must for this team what type of vileplume you want to have it up to you. The physically defensive Vileplume with black sludge is a monster but you could definitely run it more offensively. Now that I think about it some more I wouldn't run Hypno actually...between Nosepass, Tentacool, and Hypno you would have too little offensive prowess. Definitely go with what the other guy above me said and run Tauros it performs a similar role to Slaking without Truant and is generally more consistent in kos.

Huh, thanks for the tip! I'll try to keep that in mind. Though Vileplume is actually NU...would you know any suitable substitute for that mon?

 

[KnightK]

Huh, thanks for the tip! I'll try to keep that in mind. Though Vileplume is actually NU...would you know any suitable substitute for that mon?

oops the PU viability thread i am looking at for reference is outdated...sorry. I'd probably run eviolite roselia instead it performs a similar role. Or if you wanted a more offensive grass/poison type victreebel is an option.

 

[WhiteDMist]

If you use Tauros, try using Fire Blast over Rock Slide and a Naive nature over Jolly. Being able to hit physically defensive Tangela and sting Avalugg (and Gourgeist-XL) seems far more useful than smacking Pelipper and Togetic (most Flying-types are hit more than hard enough with Rock Climb). You can use Torterra/Roselia over Floatzel if you want, play around with both slots and see what works best for your playstyle.

Keep in mind that your team doesn't particularly like dealing with Throh and Poliwrath (their defensive sets can simply wall Carracosta and Circle Throw pointlessly activates Weakness Policy unfortunately; offensive Throh can just tank a hit and hit your whole team hard, while SubPunch Poliwrath abuses Nosepass and Tentacool to set up). I suggest Pelipper over Tentacool to handle them both, along with checking threats such as Scyther and Sneasel. Since your team does retain a bit of a nasty Grass-type weakness if you use Torterra, using a set of Defog, Roost, Scald, Air Slash might be optimal with a Bold nature and 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe. You can replace Air Slash with U-turn or Toxic is you are using Roselia. Most importantly, it is much more reliable at clearing away hazards than Tentacool, which is crucial if you want to keep Carracosta on your team.

Your team is pretty slow, so it might be more prudent to make Rotom-F a Choice Scarf variant.

 

[quicklite]

If you use Tauros, try using Fire Blast over Rock Slide and a Naive nature over Jolly. Being able to hit physically defensive Tangela and sting Avalugg (and Gourgeist-XL) seems far more useful than smacking Pelipper and Togetic (most Flying-types are hit more than hard enough with Rock Climb). You can use Torterra/Roselia over Floatzel if you want, play around with both slots and see what works best for your playstyle.

Keep in mind that your team doesn't particularly like dealing with Throh and Poliwrath (their defensive sets can simply wall Carracosta and Circle Throw pointlessly activates Weakness Policy unfortunately; offensive Throh can just tank a hit and hit your whole team hard, while SubPunch Poliwrath abuses Nosepass and Tentacool to set up). I suggest Pelipper over Tentacool to handle them both, along with checking threats such as Scyther and Sneasel. Since your team does retain a bit of a nasty Grass-type weakness if you use Torterra, using a set of Defog, Roost, Scald, Air Slash might be optimal with a Bold nature and 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe. You can replace Air Slash with U-turn or Toxic is you are using Roselia. Most importantly, it is much more reliable at clearing away hazards than Tentacool, which is crucial if you want to keep Carracosta on your team.

Your team is pretty slow, so it might be more prudent to make Rotom-F a Choice Scarf variant.

Huh. You make a good point, though my one concern here is that I'd really like some sort of special bulk, and Pelipper does physical. Would Togetic work as a suitable replacement for Pelipper?

It would mean I'd have to ditch stealth rock, but I never really liked rocks anyway >_>

 

[WhiteDMist]

Well, I thought you wanted to consider Roselia?