RBY 6.0

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Greetings Everyone:

image.png


This Metagame was approved by both The Immortal & Eevee General

I have to thank Deck Knight for the original idea. Based on The Smog concept I can see how the coding, the mechanics, and the pre-laid out tier system explanations make for an easy to implement OM for our community.

The article already spells out the tiers of Pokemon, the ultimate OU winners, and losers of this Metagame change, and only stops short of the update of Generation 6 (and soon to be Generation 7).
Adding moves like Infestation completely change the Metagame from the Gen 5 article as a whole, when factoring in the mechanics of such moves from Gen 1.

TAKE A LOOK HERE:

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue27/rby_moves

1) THE PREMISE:
Wouldn't it be great if Gen 1 had today's moves available back in the RBY days?

2) THE ANSWER:
In honor of the 20th Anniversary of the original RBY games, the original Generation 1 Pokemon gain the moves they naturally acquire from Gen 2-6, implemented at their original effect (based on their relation to the generation they were first created), power, type, and pp.

3). Rules and Clauses:

  1. Event moves are allowed, if they are event moves that are from generation 2 or later.
  2. The Pokémon must either learn the newer gen move in its level-up movepool, OR by Move Tutor teaching a Gen 2 or later move. This isn't one of those GSC Egg Tradebacks fantasy fests (I also don't want the RBY players to kill me...).
  3. No Gen I moves added to the Pokémon's movepool in later Gens will qualify. Essentially my assumption is that these new moves would be transplanted directly into the existing RBY movepool.
  4. Lovely Kiss is BANNED. In Pokemon Stadium, it causes fainting. Under the OHKO clause, Lovely Kiss is banned.
  5. No new gen Pokémon—as awesome as it is to envision newer gen Pokémon with moves, that would make it more like grafting RBY mechanics onto Gen 6 than putting new gen moves on older Pokémon.
  6. Move clones in later gens will revert back to their closest original gen counterpart (e.g. Outrage would be 90 BP to match its GSC counterpart [Petal Dance didn't get the BP upgrade until DP], Leaf Blade would be its original 70 BP, etc.)
  7. No Fairy, Dark or Steel damaging moves because they just can't translate back. Non-attacking moves would be considered Normal-type.
  8. Acrobatics and Shell Smash will not be considered due to Acrobatics requiring items to exist before its effect makes sense, and due to Shell Smash increasing Special Attack by 2 and decreasing Special Defense by 1; it will not be considered because its mechanics are simply too incompatible with RBY's Special stat.
  9. Circle Throw and Dragon Tail's switching effect doesn't work because Roar and Whirlwind don't work in RBY. Power Swap and Guard Swap would exchange Atk/Special and Def/Special boosts, respectively. In general, if the effect was in RBY, now moves with the same effect replicate that effect, even if that effect is utter failure.

4) METAGAME EXPECTATIONS:

Key Boosting Move Changes: Cosmic Power, Growth, Nasty Plot, now boost the equivalent of both the Special Attack and the Special Defense of the user, in additional to any other of the standard boosts.

Added Defense Tactics: Roost, Wish, Substitute, Taunt, Aromatherapy, Protect, Synthesis/Moonlight/Morning Sun make healing more viable.

More Viable Offensive Moves: Power Whip, Mega Horn/X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Close Combat, Return/Frusteration, Giga Drain, Scald, Freeze Dry, Brave Bird (Dodrio), Ice Shard, Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave, etc.

Moves that lose value: Dragon Tail/Circle Throw, Whirlwind/Roar, Trick/Switcharoo, etc.

OVERALL:

Key Strategies: Remember that Leech Seed + Toxic combo? (Double damage). How about Leech Seed + Toxic Spikes?!
Trick Room (Slowbro), Sunny Day for Growth/Solar Beam/Morning Sun, strategies, Rain Dance for Thunder, Hurricane, Water Attack move sets: (Rain Dance/Blizzard/Thunder/Surf Lapras).

Overall:
Psychic is no longer the default "best" type of the generation—although it is still very good and has powerful threats in it. More types of direct offense against it make it have to compete with other types for their useful resistances. Therefore, most balanced teams will likely default to a Fire/Water/Grass core, which I speculate would consist of Rapidash/Slowbro/Venusaur or Moltres/Blastoise/Vileplume for their ability to take most attacks, threaten most enemies, and either recover damage, disable foes, or build into the team strategy.

The sheer number of unique niche moves makes a hyper-offensive team quite possible by capitalizing on high offense and Speed with solid neutral attacks. An example of such a team might look something like Golem / Scyther / Machamp / Zapdos / Tauros / Victreebel, using Golem's Stealth Rock to ease KOs and the rest of the team's bulk, offense, coverage, and / or Speed to overwhelm the foe.

Stall would be more difficult, but possible with a team like Golem / Blastoise / Chansey / Vileplume / Zapdos / Cloyster, having access to all three hazards, Pokémon with instant recovery moves, Rapid Spin to get rid of other hazards, and Aromatherapy to heal paralysis or sleep that might stop bulkier members of the team from recovering—or even to heal Rest-incuded sleep.

5) FOUNDATION / TIERS:

This would be based off of the OU Metagame.

Where Ubers like Mewtwo, Mew, etc. would be banned, as well as a few Pokemon, whom benefitted by such a large amount that they now join the Ubers: Alakazam, Starmie; and Dragonite.

How, you might ask?
Starmie- Gains Cosmic Power, and based on Gen 1 mechanics, boosts both Special Defense, Special Attack in addition to Defense, allowing it to boost, recover, and have Bolt Beam coverage.

Dragonite- Gains Hurricane, Roost, Dragon Dance. Remember, the Special/Physical split didn't happen until Generation 4, so Gen 1 Hurricane hits off Dragonite's much higher Attack stat.

Alakazam- Gains Calm Mind, so you can opt for a Calm Mind, Recover, Psyshock/Psychic, and Thunderwave set. Remember only Psychic resists Psychic. Think Slowbro can just Amnesia stall you? How about Calm Mind on Alakazam to boost up alongside it?

After those quick bans take place, we would have a much more varied and diverse tier than was originally created in Gen 1, all without overloading the OU tier with too many Pokemon to keep up with.

So, what do you say to this 20th anniversary ode to Gen 1 Metagame?
 
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Has this been approved? I do hope so, it looks excellent.

Raichu is happy. Not perfectly, mind you, as it still has to deal with its sad 100 speed, but it now has an Amnesia clone in the form of Nasty Plot (probably), and it has a straight improvement over Thunder Wave in the form of Nuzzle, its signature move (since the Pikaclones are just watching in the audience).

Gengar still can't use its STABs.

Anyway, if you want this to be a true ode to Gen 1, kill Stealth Rocks and let the Ice-types roam free.

Oh, by the way, the starters get a huge buff in the form of having elemental Hyper Beam clones.
 
Yep Eevee General and The Immortal approved it.

Many ice types have strong special and the move Blizzard. They should be fine... :)
 
Let me get this straight because i'm confused: This is a game with gen 1 mons, mechanics, etc. but you get all the moves they could get in any generation alongside those moves' effects in the generation they were created? For example, 20 BP knock off, like in gen 3, on gen 1 mons that learn it?
 
Yes, except dark, steel and fairy moves that deal damage don't get translated back so we skip those. We still keep non-damaging dark; steel; or fairy moves like Taunt- the non-damaging moves become normal type moves.

A note: the move bite was normal in Gen. 1, then became dark in Gen. 2, so this is the only damaging move that was dark that is kept, as it reverts to the Gen. 1 Normal type.

Also, Raichu doesn't have nasty plot because Pichu learns it by level up not Pikachu. Pichu didn't exist in gen 1
 
OM! said:
Greetings Everyone:

View attachment 64258

This Metagame was approved by both The Immortal & Evee General

I have to thank Deck Knight for the original idea. Based on The Smog concept I can see how the coding, the mechanics, and the pre-laid out tier system explanations make for an easy to implement OM for our community.

The article already spells out the tiers of Pokemon, the ultimate OU winners, and losers of this Metagame change, and only stops short of the update of Generation 6 (and soon to be Generation 7).
Adding moves like Infestation completely change the Metagame from the Gen 5 article as a whole, when factoring in the mechanics of such moves from Gen 1.

TAKE A LOOK HERE:

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue27/rby_moves

1) THE PREMISE:
Wouldn't it be great if Gen 1 had today's moves available back in the RBY days?

2) THE ANSWER:
In honor of the 20th Anniversary of the original RBY games, the original Generation 1 Pokemon gain the moves they naturally acquire from Gen 2-6, implemented at their original effect (based on their relation to the generation they were first created), power, type, and pp.

3). Rules and Clauses:

  1. The Pokémon must learn the newer gen move in its level-up movepool in any gen to qualify. This isn't one of those GSC Egg Tradebacks fantasy fests (I also don't want the RBY players to kill me...).
  2. No Gen I moves added to the Pokémon's movepool in later Gens will qualify. Essentially my assumption is that these new moves would be transplanted directly into the existing RBY movepool.
  3. No new gen Pokémon—as awesome as it is to envision newer gen Pokémon with moves, that would make it more like grafting RBY mechanics onto Gen 6 than putting new gen moves on older Pokémon.
  4. Move clones in later gens will revert back to their closest original gen counterpart (e.g. Outrage would be 90 BP to match its GSC counterpart [Petal Dance didn't get the BP upgrade until DP], Leaf Blade would be its original 70 BP, etc.)
  5. No Fairy, Dark or Steel damaging moves because they just can't translate back. Non-attacking moves would be considered Normal-type.
  6. Acrobatics and Shell Smash will not be considered due to Acrobatics requiring items to exist before its effect makes sense, and due to Shell Smash increasing Special Attack by 2 and decreasing Special Defense by 1; it will not be considered because its mechanics are simply too incompatible with RBY's Special stat.
  7. Circle Throw and Dragon Tail's switching effect doesn't work because Roar and Whirlwind don't work in RBY. Power Swap and Guard Swap would exchange Atk/Special and Def/Special boosts, respectively. In general, if the effect was in RBY, now moves with the same effect replicate that effect, even if that effect is utter failure.

4) METAGAME EXPECTATIONS:

Key Boosting Move Changes: Cosmic Power, Growth, Nasty Plot, now boost the equivalent of both the Special Attack and the Special Defense of the user, in additional to any other of the standard boosts.

Added Defense Tactics: Roost, Wish, Substitute, Taunt, Aromatherapy, Protect, Synthesis/Moonlight/Morning Sun make healing more viable.

More Viable Offensive Moves: Power Whip, Mega Horn/X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Close Combat, Return/Frusteration, Giga Drain, Scald, Freeze Dry, Brave Bird (Dodrio), Ice Shard, Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave, etc.

Moves that lose value: Dragon Tail/Circle Throw, Whirlwind/Roar, Trick/Switcharoo, etc.

OVERALL:

Key Strategies: Remember that Leech Seed + Toxic combo? (Double damage). How about Leech Seed + Toxic Spikes?!
Trick Room (Slowbro), Sunny Day for Growth/Solar Beam/Morning Sun, strategies, Rain Dance for Thunder, Hurricane, Water Attack move sets: (Rain Dance/Blizzard/Thunder/Surf Lapras).

Overall:
Psychic is no longer the default "best" type of the generation—although it is still very good and has powerful threats in it. More types of direct offense against it make it have to compete with other types for their useful resistances. Therefore, most balanced teams will likely default to a Fire/Water/Grass core, which I speculate would consist of Rapidash/Slowbro/Venusaur or Moltres/Blastoise/Vileplume for their ability to take most attacks, threaten most enemies, and either recover damage, disable foes, or build into the team strategy.

The sheer number of unique niche moves makes a hyper-offensive team quite possible by capitalizing on high offense and Speed with solid neutral attacks. An example of such a team might look something like Golem / Scyther / Machamp / Zapdos / Tauros / Victreebel, using Golem's Stealth Rock to ease KOs and the rest of the team's bulk, offense, coverage, and / or Speed to overwhelm the foe.

Stall would be more difficult, but possible with a team like Golem / Blastoise / Chansey / Vileplume / Zapdos / Cloyster, having access to all three hazards, Pokémon with instant recovery moves, Rapid Spin to get rid of other hazards, and Aromatherapy to heal paralysis or sleep that might stop bulkier members of the team from recovering—or even to heal Rest-incuded sleep.

5) FOUNDATION / TIERS:

This would be based off of the OU Metagame.

Where Ubers like Mewtwo, Mew, etc. would be banned, as well as a few Pokemon, whom benefitted by such a large amount that they now join the Ubers: Alakazam, Starmie; and Dragonite.

How, you might ask?
Starmie- Gains Cosmic Power, and based on Gen 1 mechanics, boosts both Special Defense, Special Attack in addition to Defense, allowing it to boost, recover, and have Bolt Beam coverage.

Dragonite- Gains Hurricane, Roost, Dragon Dance. Remember, the Special/Physical split didn't happen until Generation 4, so Gen 1 Hurricane hits off Dragonite's much higher Attack stat.

Alakazam- Gains Calm Mind, Psycho Cut. Remember, in Generation 1, the faster you are; the higher chance to land a Critical Hit on your foe. With Psycho Cut's already increased chance of a Critical Hit, this is basically guaranteed, similar to Slash on Persian, except Alakazam has an actual powerful offense stat. Think Slowbro can just Amnesia stall you? How about Calm Mind on Alakazam to boost up alongside it?

After those quick bans take place, we would have a much more varied and diverse tier than was originally created in Gen 1, all without overloading the OU tier with too many Pokemon to keep up with.

So, what do you say to this 20th anniversary ode to Gen 1 Metagame?
Click to expand...
just a side note, but crits ignore boosting of any sort in gen 1. psychic is still better then psychocut nomatter how you put it when it comes to CM, ESPECIALLY due to the critical hits it causes. in fact, due to said mechanic, zam is technically a BAD user of CM due to this trait. since with twave being so nessisary, it makes CM almost redundant on the poor guy since twave practically guarentees zam crits.
Alakazam Psycho cut vs. Slowbro on a critical hit: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Alakazam Psycho cut vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+6 Alakazam Psychic vs. Chansey: 314-369 (44.6 - 52.4%) -- 20.2% chance to 2HKO

so yeah...zam has no reason to be banned. as calm mind is arguably a LOT worse then its current set. if anything, psyshock is its flagship, since it allows zam to hit special attackers on their much weaker defense stat-enless you are slowbro
 
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Lcass4919 said:
just a side note, but crits ignore boosting of any sort in gen 1. psychic is still better then psychocut nomatter how you put it when it comes to CM, ESPECIALLY due to the critical hits it causes. in fact, due to said mechanic, zam is technically a BAD user of CM due to this trait. since with twave being so nessisary, it makes CM almost redundant on the poor guy since twave practically guarentees zam crits.
Alakazam Psycho cut vs. Slowbro on a critical hit: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Alakazam Psycho cut vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+6 Alakazam Psychic vs. Chansey: 314-369 (44.6 - 52.4%) -- 20.2% chance to 2HKO

so yeah...zam has no reason to be banned. as calm mind is arguably a LOT worse then its current set. if anything, psyshock is its flagship, since it allows zam to hit special attackers on their much weaker defense stat-enless you are slowbro
Click to expand...
Good catch, I will edit that.
Also keep in mind these are just level up moves, as there was no breeding in generation 1, and no TMs from future generations because those TMs didn't exist in generation 1 (and have the same TM #).

I agree, I need someone to code this and put on a server.
 
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Thoughts on random moves I see:
Scald is a mixed bag. On one hand, the ability to thaw yourself is huge in Gen 1 because Ice moves are everywhere and getting frozen is not fun. On the other hand, the 30% burn chance sucks. Still, Starmie and Slowbro will probably run it, just so that they won't get frozen.

Stone Edge Holy shit, Aerodactyl has an actual STAB move now! This move is completely bonkers in gen 1. A 100 BP auto-crit with no immunities and only 2 resistances is just ridiculous.

Cross Chop is in a similar vein as Stone Edge. Sadly, Primeape is terrible.

Roost - Zapdos and Articuno absolutely LOVE this. Zapdos can come in on something like Alakazam or Exeggutor and heal off the damage it takes, while Articuno is just too bulky.

Tail Glow - Boy, can you imagine the chaos that would happen if any Gen 1 Pokemon actually got this?

Megahorn Pity no Bug types actually learn this. However, Rhydon becomes even better at scaring off Psychics and actually has something useful to run in its fourth moveslot.

Elemental Hyper Beams All of these have VERY limited distribution, which is a massive shame since all of its users are flawed in their own way. Venusaur has a nasty Psychic weakness but actually is decent otherwise, Blastoise lacks any glaring flaws but is outclassed by..... practically every other bulky water. Charizard suffers from Fire typing being terrible in gen 1.
Now at first glance, Rhydon seems to be completely ridiculous with Rock Wrecker, and it would be. Access to STAB on the most powerful move that isn't Explosion along with a sky-high base 130 Attack is absolutely busted. However, I checked, and Rhydon doesn't even get Rock Wrecker. I'm not sure whether this is a blessing in disguise or not, but you can already have fun with Stone Edge on Rhydon. Oh and nothing gets Roar of Time either.

Hurricane - Run for the hills, Dragonite is here to kill you all! Oh, and Articuno likes having a Flying STAB, even though it's somewhat redundant. I guess you can kill bulky Waters and Chansey?

More later.
 
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HeadsILoseTailsYouWin said:
Cross Chop is in a similar vein as Stone Edge. Sadly, Primeape is terrible.
Click to expand...
I mean, in standard RBY Primape sucks, but with it having a high crit rate move backed by 105 Atk and 95 Spe is going to make it an interesting choice to say the least. It needs to be careful of fat Psychics, as it really can't touch them, although if you wanna dent Slowbro you can always do this:

Primeape Thunder vs. Slowbro: 148-174 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Which has a decently high crit rate due to it's high speed (although it kinda sucks that Focus Energy doesn't work in RB, unless this is Stadium mechanics in which case cool; Focus Energy-->Thunder=Primeape Thunder vs. Slowbro on a critical hit: 285-336 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Or if you're not worried about Primeape then you can always do this:

Primeape Final Gambit vs. Slowbro: 333-333 (84.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Primeape Final Gambit vs. Exeggutor: 333-333 (84.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cross Chop-->Final Gambit and you've taken out an incredibly annoying 'mon, which is huge.
========================
OM! there is technically one thing you could do to implement the Dark-type into this, and this is to turn all Dark-type attacks into Normal-type attacks. The reason I say this is because Bite was originally a Normal-type attack in generation 1 and was changed to a Dark-type attack in gen 2 and was the only Dark-type attack that originates in generation 1, meaning that you can directly tie the Dark-type to the Normal-type. You can implement this or not--it's your meta, and I can understand why you might not want to do this (simplicity+potential subjectivity+doesn't explain the lack of Steel- and Fairy-)--but it occurred to me and has some interesting applications, namely giving Pokémon access to Pursuit to deal damage to things as they switch while also having wide distribution including three with STAB on it (Raticate, Fearow and, most notably, Dodrio) and Sucker Punch to give Raticate and lead Dugtrio powerful priority, so I thought I'd bring it up. Ofc if you do want to implement this but are refraining due to it being inconsistent with Steel and Fairy you could just turn later-gen types into Normal, which would be kinda interesting in the cases of moves such as Moonblast and Doom Desire, although ultimately due to the lower number of weird applications of these types' moves relative to Dark.

I might edit this post with other thoughts later if I have the time.
 
HeadsILoseTailsYouWin said:
Thoughts on random moves I see:
Scald is a mixed bag. On one hand, the ability to thaw yourself is huge in Gen 1 because Ice moves are everywhere and getting frozen is not fun. On the other hand, the 30% burn chance sucks. Still, Starmie and Slowbro will probably run it, just so that they won't get frozen.

Stone Edge Holy shit, Aerodactyl has an actual STAB move now! This move is completely bonkers in gen 1. A 100 BP auto-crit with no immunities and only 2 resistances is just ridiculous.

Cross Chop is in a similar vein as Stone Edge. Sadly, Primeape is terrible.

Roost - Zapdos and Articuno absolutely LOVE this. Zapdos can come in on something like Alakazam or Exeggutor and heal off the damage it takes, while Articuno is just too bulky.

Tail Glow - Boy, can you imagine the chaos that would happen if any Gen 1 Pokemon actually got this?

Megahorn Pity no Bug types actually learn this. However, Rhydon becomes even better at scaring off Psychics and actually has something useful to run in its fourth moveslot.

Elemental Hyper Beams All of these have VERY limited distribution, which is a massive shame since all of its users are flawed in their own way. Venusaur has a nasty Psychic weakness but actually is decent otherwise, Blastoise lacks any glaring flaws but is outclassed by..... practically every other bulky water. Charizard suffers from Fire typing being terrible in gen 1.
Now at first glance, Rhydon seems to be completely ridiculous with Rock Wrecker, and it would be. Access to STAB on the most powerful move that isn't Explosion along with a sky-high base 130 Attack is absolutely busted. However, I checked, and Rhydon doesn't even get Rock Wrecker. I'm not sure whether this is a blessing in disguise or not, but you can already have fun with Stone Edge on Rhydon. Oh and nothing gets Roar of Time either.

Hurricane - Run for the hills, Dragonite is here to kill you all! Oh, and Articuno likes having a Flying STAB, even though it's somewhat redundant. I guess you can kill bulky Waters and Chansey?

More later.
Click to expand...
slowbro doesnt get scald, and nothing gets the elemental hyper beams, since its level up moves only. i think the whole level up moves only thing really limits the "uniqueness" of this meta. and allthough i get why its done, i still feel like it would be better if it allowed all forms of moves, rather then JUST level up.
 
Lcass4919 said:
slowbro doesnt get scald, and nothing gets the elemental hyper beams, since its level up moves only. i think the whole level up moves only thing really limits the "uniqueness" of this meta. and allthough i get why its done, i still feel like it would be better if it allowed all forms of moves, rather then JUST level up.
Click to expand...
It's not just Slowbro, nothing gets Scald. Volcanion and Simipour/Panpour are the only pokemon that have ever gotten it as a level-up move. Aerodactyl doesn't get Stone Edge, either, and the only Rock move it gains in this meta is Ancient Power, which is pretty passable even with STAB. For that matter, a lot of moves mentioned in the original post have no legal users; Wish, Protect, Morning Sun, Return/Frustration, and Trick Room have never been on the level-up learnset of any Kanto pokemon. Others are extremely exclusive; Persian is the only Taunt user, Exeggutor and Hypno are the only Psyshock users (even 'Zam doesn't get it...), Ninetales has exclusive access to will-o-wisp, Sunny Day is Magmar and Moltres only, and Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb are surprisingly exclusive with the vast majority of poison-types getting them through TM only. It's really easy to overlook if you aren't carefully checking each move on your moveset on Bulbapedia.
 
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I agree, it is difficult to have someone code this without fact checking each Pokemon in gen 2-6.

One thing I can do while still being fair to gen 1 mechanics is include move tutors. This requires me to include Stadium mechanics, as the only move tutor in Generation 1 (any remakes still use later generation mechanics) is the final battle with a Game Pak allowing you to teach Pikachu Surf in the English version. I still allow it because it does require the game
Pak which means you have to attach Red / Blue / Yellow and send them into the console game. By this mechanic requirement I still feel it uses RBY and qualifies the entire generation 1 of move tutor implementation. I verified at Bulbapedia: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Move_Tutor#Stadium_.28English.29

If we don't include stadium then move tutors wouldn't be introduced until Pokemon Crystal Version.

This allows you to add moves through a method that surpasses the level up only limits.

So this means 2 things:
1. Pikachu can now learn Surf (which makes sense as there was even a Surfing Pikachu mini game in Pokemon Yellow), as it is a gen 1 move tutorable in generation 1, thus like Pikachu gaining level up move in generation 1 that is raised in generation 1, I will allow it.

2. Move Tutor moves from move tutors introduced in generation 2 or later, (just like level up moves introduced generation 2 or later), are included. So no moves tutor moves from Fire Red and Leaf Green because they are Gen 1 moves, the only exception are the Elemental Hyper Beams, which are allowed because they are the only move tutor moves in Fr/Lg not from gen 1.

Sorry, but we do not include move reminders since that didn't exist in generation 1, but in instances where the move reminder brings a move already available to be move tutored in a previous game, then the move tutor takes precedence as being in an earlier release supercedes it. For example, in Fire Red and Leaf Green, you can teach the Gen 1 starters the elemental Hyper Beams, but in Gen 4 Heart Gold/ Soul Silver games you have to use the move reminder. Because you could teach the move tutor in gen 3, which came before gen 4, I qualify the elemental hyper beams because they were tutorable before they were "reminderable".

TL/DR- move tutors are now implemented for Surf Pikachu, and any other move that is Gen 2 or later.
Stadium mechanics replace RBY ones, such as Focus Energy. Lovely Kiss is thus banned because it causes Fainting in generation 1 Stadium. Evidence: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lovely_Kiss_(move)#Learnseta

Lastly, I will also allow Pokemon that have Special moves that you can obtain in game without a cheating device or method, such as an in-game trade, an official Nintendo event, or an in-gameprize. Hence why Mew is allowed, because you can obtain it without a Game Shark/glitch if you went to ththe Nintendo New York event.

Keep in mind, as long as these special moves are obtainable in Generation 1, such as the example below:

For example, in Pokemon Stadium, if you obtain a Psyduck by registering all 151 Pokemon in the Hall of Fame, your Psyduck knows Amnesia, not normally obtainable on Psyduck or Golduck in generation 1. In generation 1, Amnesia boosts Special, which counts as both special attack and special defense.

Keep in mind, this makes it the only non-psychic type to have Amnesia, besides Snorlax, AKA the only non-psychic with the best boosting move.

Since you can legally get a Golduck (after evolving this Psyduck) with Amnesia, you can use an Amnesia Golduck in this Metagame. Source is Serebii:
http://www.serebii.net/stadium/prizes.shtml
 
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OM! said:
Sorry, but we do not include move reminders since that didn't exist in generation 1, but in instances where the move reminder brings a move already available to be move tutored in a previous game, then the move tutor takes precedence as being in an earlier release supercedes it. For example, in Fire Red and Leaf Green, you can teach the Gen 1 starters the elemental Hyper Beams, but in Gen 4 Heart Gold/ Soul Silver games you have to use the move reminder. Because you could teach the move tutor in gen 3, which came before gen 4, I qualify the elemental hyper beams because they were tutorable before they were "reminderable".
Click to expand...
Does this apply to TM's as well? A lot of pokemon get access to Stealth Rock as a tutor move, but it was first introduced as a TM move so if that takes precedence then they wouldn't get access to Stealth Rock.
 
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Yes, because move tutors teach moves Pokemon don't know by level up, like Pikachu learning Surf as a move tutor move in Stadium even though Surf was introduced as an HM move in RBY.

As long as a move is move tutorable or available through an event (aka qualifying as a method for learning a move that existed in generation 1), then that is permitted. Because breeding and move reminders came in a later gen, I cannot include those methods.

TMs & HMs from future generations introducing moves cannot be included. Think of it this way: TM 1-50 and HM 1-5 are region and generation specific. Even remakes factor in newer gen moves over the TMs.

However, if a Pokemon naturally learns a move by level up that happens to be a TM or HM, or learns a move by move tutor that happens to be a TM or HM then that is fair game. For example, Seaking/Goldeen learn Waterfall in generation 1 by level up before it even became an HM.

As long as a move tutor from generation 2 or later does not tutor a generation 1 move, even if that move is a TM, that is fine. It has to be a level up, event, prize, or move tutor move that is introduced after generation 1.

If the move is from generation 1, then it has to be tutorable or be available in generation 1 to that Pokemon, like Surf Pikachu being a move tutor move with a gen 1 move because the move tutor itself is gen 1

I will edit the op later, I am on my phone
 
Seems terrible due to the fact that even Slowbro takes only 80 BP from Electro Ball unless you boost your Speed or it's Paralyzed - Never mind the fact that Goldon still hard walls you unless you bring HP Water.
 
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