Seismitoad (dropped plz lock)

[DarkNostalgia]

is this toad black and blue or white and gold​

Overview
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• Good typing in Water / Ground means Seismitoad only has a weakness to the less common Grass-type
• Two great abilities in Water Absorb and Swift Swim enable it to be either defensive or offensive
• Access to Water Absorb as well as decent 105 / 75 / 75 bulk let's it check a plethora of Pokemon including non-Grass Knot Mega Metagross, Keldeo, Rotom-W and Mega Manectric
• Good utility options in Stealth Rock and Knock Off set it apart from other defensive Water / Ground-typed Pokemon such as Gastrodon and Quagsire
• Swift Swim makes Seismitoad a good sweeper under rain
• Crippling weakness to Grass-types such as Mega Sceptile, Serperior and Celebi
• Lack of reliable recovery unlike Quagsire and Gastrodon
• Below-average 95 / 85 base offenses
• Faces stiff competition from Quagsire, Gastrodon and other bulky Water-types

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Earthquake / Earth Power
move 4: Knock Off / Toxic
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
nature: Relaxed / Bold

Moves
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• Stealth Rock is a great utility move to punish and wear down switch-ins
• Scald has a 30% chance to burn which is great to cripple Water-, Grass- and Dragon-types switch-ins to Seismitoad
• Earthquake is Seismitoad's physical Ground STAB move and hits Pokemon such as Azumarill and Keldeo harder as well as 2HKOing Mega Charizard X which Seismitoad checks relatively well
• Earth Power could also be used but doesn't achieve any additional KOs that Earthquake misses out on; however a Bold Nature could be run to minimize confusion and Foul Play damage if Earth Power is used instead
• Knock Off provides great utility and cripples Pokemon such as Chansey, Ferrothorn and Rotom-W
• Toxic puts a timer on set-up sweepers such as Charizard X and Keldeo and also wears down bulky Water-, Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon switch-ins

Set Details
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• Maximum EV investment in HP and Defense allow for as much physical bulk as possible to take on offensive Pokemon such as non-Grass Knot Metagross, Dragon Dance Altaria and Charizard, Mega Lopunny and Keldeo
• Water Absorb is the chosen ability to provide a valuable immunity to Water-type moves
• Leftovers give Seismitoad some passive recovery and is important as Seismitoad does not have any form of recovery besides
• Alternatively, some HP or Defense could be moved to Special Defense to take special hits from the likes of Mega Gardevoir and Gengar better

Usage Tips
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• Set up rocks as soon as possible to punish switches, but only when in a safe position i.e forcing a switch
• Don't switch Seismitoad in repeatedly since it is worn down easily by attacks and hazards because of a lack of reliable recovery
• Utilise it's great bulk to check many threats both early- and mid-game
• Scald is the most spammable move as it cripples a wide array of foes
• Seismitoad can pivot into quite a few Choice-locked Pokemon such as Victini and Landorus-Therian and gain momentum from there

Team Options
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• Fire-types such as Volcarona, Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame are great partners since they appreciate Seismitoad's ability to set-up rocks for them score a few crucial KOs as well as being immune to Water-type attacks directed at them. In turn they can also eliminate Grass-types who give Seismitoad trouble
• VoltTurn users such as Rotom-W and Scizor also gain momentum and give Seismitoad chances to switch in easier. Scizor in particular is a great partner, wearing down Fairy-types that Seismitoad may struggle to deal with such as Mega Altaria and Clefable whilst providing U-turn support so that Seismitoad can safely switch in. Seismitoad in turn deals with Fire-types such as Talonflame that Scizor are demolished by

Rain Sweeper
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name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Sludge Wave / Knock Off
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Rash

Moves
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INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
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EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Other Options
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OTHER OPTIONS GOES HERE. STUFF LIKE ALTERNATE MOVES, ALTERNATE SETS, NICHE STUFF THAT DOESN'T GET A MAIN SET MENTION


Checks & Counters
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CHECKS & COUNTERS GO HERE
NOTE THAT THIS WILL BE MORE THREATLISTY SO MENTION POKEMON / OTHER EFFECTS ONE AT A TIME

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Ok so I kinda want input on the EVs of the first spread. I've been using max max on seismitoad, but I dunno if a spread of 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef is more efficient since it hits a leftovers number.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

That spread is actually inefficient precisely because you're trying to hit a Leftovers number. All that is doing is hurting your overall bulk with literally no benefit. If you want a little extra special bulk, you'd be better off moving a small amount of EVs to SpD from Def rather than from HP. For example, a spread of 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD is taking hits better on both sides. To demonstrate:

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 220-259 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Seismitoad: 226-266 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 267-315 (66.5 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Seismitoad: 273-322 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

All in all though, I'd just stick with max physical bulk unless you really need that extra little bit of special bulk for something in particular. 105 / 75 physical bulk is good but not amazing, and with no reliable recovery move, Seismitoad is going to want as much bulk as possible so that it can tank hits in the long run.

 

[J_Hatfield_007]

Ok so I kinda want input on the EVs of the first spread. I've been using max max on seismitoad, but I dunno if a spread of 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef is more efficient since it hits a leftovers number.

This sounds better imo. Of course, its whatever you want to put on it. Suggest having toxic over knock off on Stealth Rock Seismitoad. Also suggest Sludge Wave on Rain Sweeper, fairly powerful fairy check.
Hope you consider these, good luck!

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Put those in already lol, the lefties spread will have a small mention in EV details.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

In case I was unclear, I don't think the Leftovers number spread should be mentioned anywhere at all. Like I said, it's a completely inefficient EV spread that only hurts Seismitoad's overall bulk and offers no benefit because you're getting the exact same amount of Leftovers recovery with 200 HP as you are with 252 HP. There's a time and a place for EV tricks like Leftovers numbers, but this isn't it. You can, however, mention in Set Details that you can move some Def EVs to SpD to improve Seismitoad's special bulk at the cost of a little physical bulk. Not sure if there's one best EV spread for this, but even the arbitrary spread I mentioned in my last post is better than one aiming to hit a Leftovers number.

 

[pwnémon]

Hey i think you should mention protect in moves or even a slash. It helps patch up toads lack of recovery somewhat, helps against mega lopunny, scouts etc.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Protect is kinda meh, what would you replace on the defensive set? Kinda needs those four moves to function well. Would like QC opinion, but I won't be adding it yet until I get a green signal.

EDIT: Also Toxic+Protect stall Seismitoad is kinda gimmicky isn't it

 

[DracoNinja]

i think refresh deserves a mention on the first set or at least OO because it allows it to ward off burns from rotom-w and honestly this helps it in beating rotom-w in a long way, after all one of seismitoad's main uses is that it completely cockblocks rotom-w.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

OML thanks for reminding me, can't believe i forgot it cockblocks rotom >.< refresh sounds like a cool option, ill add in clerics in team options as well.

 

[Politoad]

i'm just wondering if the second's set is still worth it - the only niche is not taking up a mega slot + knock off. m-swamp has ice beam and all of these other moves and better spatk - I doubt if Seismitoad outspeeds anything relevant under rain which Megapert can't.

Are these niches good enough to use it?

edit; i know this is a wip but actually on the first set I'd slash Bold after relaxed seeing earthquake and knock off are both primary slashes and the secondary slashes (epower and toxic) aren't special so then you're better off w/ bold i think.

 

[firehusky]

Wait what?
Knock Off and Earthquake are both primary slashes and they're physical moves; Bold drops your attack stat and boosts your defense stat. Relaxed boosts defense and lowers speed, which seismitoad doesn't need. There's really no point in running Bold.

edit: And I still think the second set should be kept, it has a thunder wave immunity, doesn't take up a mega slot (in case on your rain team you're running heracross instead of mega swampert as your mega), and actually hits decently hard with rain boosted LO hydro pumps.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Yeah, I said if NOT running Earthquake run Bold. Knock Off is a utility move and not meant to deal damage, so a boost to that really isn't necessary. Also second set should be kept, and will be kept unless QC tells me otherwise.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Change the first sets name to Defensive, no need to have stealth rock in the name

 

[Politoad]

Wait what?
Knock Off and Earthquake are both primary slashes and they're physical moves; Bold drops your attack stat and boosts your defense stat. Relaxed boosts defense and lowers speed, which seismitoad doesn't need. There's really no point in running Bold.

edit: And I still think the second set should be kept, it has a thunder wave immunity, doesn't take up a mega slot (in case on your rain team you're running heracross instead of mega swampert as your mega), and actually hits decently hard with rain boosted LO hydro pumps.

What I meant is if Knock Off + Earthquake are primary slashes, than Relaxed is slashed first. However, since Earth Power and Toxic are both secondary slashes, I'd slash Bold because they're both slashed secondary and nor of them are physical

Swampert-Mega has a Twave immunity too.

Yeah, I said if NOT running Earthquake run Bold. Knock Off is a utility move and not meant to deal damage, so a boost to that really isn't necessary. Also second set should be kept, and will be kept unless QC tells me otherwise.

Ah, alright, thanks for clearing that up. Yeah it's all up to QC ofc, disregard me.