Snover (QC 3/3)

Status
Not open for further replies.
sparktrain

sparktrain

is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
snover.gif

Overview
########

+ 100% accurate Blizzard
+ Switches into common Water-types with ease and threatens with Giga Drain
+ Ultimate anti-weather mon, since it ruins Sandstorm abusers, Chlorophyll sweepers, and Swift Swimmers alike
- Weather isn’t really that common
- Hurt by Blizzard’s power nerf; Scarf Blizzard isn't overwhelmingly powerful and it needs a lot of support before it can sweep
- The prevalence of Fletchling means Snover has a hard time being picked over Amaura


Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Ice Shard
move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Snow Warning
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 104 Atk / 184 SpA / 200 Spe
nature: Naive

Moves
========
  • Blizzard is a staple on an auto-hail inducer
  • Giga Drain hits those obvious Water-type switch-ins, healing Snover in the process.
  • Ice Shard may seem a bit strange on a Choice Scarf set, but it provides Snover with a method of defeating opposing priority users that have been weakened, specifically Fletchling.
  • The last slot provides coverage against common switch-ins to Blizzard. Hidden Power Fire will hit opposing Steel-types, particularly Ferroseed. It is also the most effective choice for dealing with opposing Snover.
  • Hidden Power Rock will hit opposing Fire-types on the switch such as Larvesta and Vulpix.
  • Hidden Power Ground hits Magnemite the hardest. It also hits a mix of Fire/Steel-types super-effectively, such as Ponyta, Vulpix, and Honedge, but it misses the super-effective coverage on Ferroseed, Bronzor, and Larvesta.

Set Details
========
  • Maximum Speed investment with a boosting nature gives Snover 14 speed, allowing it to hit 21 with Choice Scarf, the magic number for outspeeding the unboosted metagame.
  • Special Attack is then maxed to make Snover’s attacks hit as hard as possible
  • The rest goes into HP to give Snover a little bulk

Usage Tips
========
  • Choice Scarf Snover is best used late-game when it can safely spam Blizzard. A prediction gone wrong early-mid game can mean the end for Snover.
  • If you bring Snover in on something weak to Ice, like Archen, while they have an Ice-resistant pokemon still in the ranks, this is where the prediction comes in. Use Giga Drain/Hidden Power whatever to punish the switch-in.

Team Options
========
  • Since it is weak to Stealth Rock, Snover appreciates the help of a spinner/defogger. Fortunately, many spinners and defoggers pair well with Snover.
  • Drilbur can easily take on the Fire and Steel-Types that trouble Snover, including Levitators such as Bronzor if it has Mold Breaker.
  • Vullaby can Defog hazards away and remove Eviolites with Knock Off, softening up the opposition for Snover.
  • Staryu can take on the Fire-types that give Snover trouble.

Eviolite
########
name: Eviolite
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Ice Shard
move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Snow Warning
item: Eviolite
evs: 36 HP / 104 Atk / 40 Def / 184 SpA / 120 SpD
nature: Quiet

Moves
========
  • Blizzard, use it
  • Giga Drain is the best option for secondary STAB, as it keeps Snover healthy throughout the match.
  • Ice Shard is is a useful move, picking off opposing mons that are faster than Snover and have been significantly weakened. Keep in mind that Eviolite Snover can't take on Fletchling with Ice Shard since Snover is slower.
  • The Hidden Power of choice goes in the last slot. This choice depends on Snover's team mates and what types of pokemon are the biggest problem for your team.

Set Details
========
  • The investment in bulk gives Snover even numbers in its defenses, taking the best advantage of Eviolite.
  • Snover also needs investment in both of its attacking stats, so EVs are placed in both attacking stats, with SpA being maxed.
  • Since Snover needs both attacking stats and both defensive stats, a Speed lowering nature is used.
  • The EV spread allows for any of the Hidden Powers listed to be used without trouble.

Usage Tips
========
  • Bulky Snover makes use of its typing to repeatedly switch into Water, Electric, and Ground types and heal up with Giga Drain. This makes it an especially good switch in for Chinchou, since Chinchou rarely carries Hidden Power Fire.
  • This Snover variant can also bluff being choice-locked, since many people expect Snover to be a scarf-variant. For example, you can surprise Water-types with Giga Drain if they think you're locked into Blizzard.

Team Options
========
  • Spinner/Defogger, such as Drilbur, Vullaby, Staryu, etc...
  • Archen is a good Defog user to pair with Snover since the two have excellent defensive synergy. Archen can take on pokemon such as Fletchling and Houndour for Snover, while Snover easily handles Archen's Water and Electric-type weakness, allowing it to easily switch in on Chinchou.
  • Opposing Fighting-types are a pain for Snover. Fletchling and Doduo make good offensive team mates, since they threaten Fighting-types with their powerful Flying-type moves.

Other Options
########
  • Energy Ball is a more powerful option that can be used over Giga Drain, although Energy Ball doesn't get any notable KOs that Giga Drain doesn't.
  • Leech Seed is an option on the Eviolite set, although it's usually better to use Giga Drain. Don't use Synthesis, as it only restores 25% HP in Hail.
  • Hidden Power Fighting is an option if you're trying to lure Pawniard, but it doesn't OHKO.
  • Shadow Ball is an option to 2HKO Honedge, but its usefulness ends there since other Ghosts (barring the rare Litwick) are hit harder by Blizzard.
  • Water Pulse can be used in place of Hidden Power to hit Fire types, but it's inferior to Hidden Power Rock because it misses the OHKO on Larvesta and it misses the 2HKO on Vulpix.

Checks & Counters
########
  • **Fire-types**: As long as they don't come in on a Hidden Power Rock, Ponyta, Houndour, Larvesta, and so on can switch into Snover without a problem and take advantage of its nasty 4x weakness to Fire. Larvesta in particular can capitalize on the forced switch by using U-turn.
  • **Vulpix**: Vulpix not only poses a large threat to Snover, but it removes the hail as well with Drought.
  • **Steel-types**: Steel-types such as Magnemite and Pawniard can switch in on Snover's STAB moves and immediately threaten it with their Steel-type attacks.
  • **Bulky Fighting-types**: Bulky Fighting-types such as Mienfoo and Timburr can tank a Blizzard, and then KO with Fighting STAB. Timburr in particular can revenge Scarf Snover quite easily with Mach Punch, which does around 80% to Scarf Snover.
  • **Tentacool**: Tentacool resists Blizzard, and if Snover uses Giga Drain, Tentacool’s Liquid Ooze will hurt Snover in the process. Threatens with Sludge Bomb.
  • **Fletchling**: Fletchling easily revenge kills Snover with priority Acrobatics. The only thing it has to fear is Ice Shard from Choice Scarf Snover.
 
Last edited:
I'm a bit stuck on the last two moveslots. The first two are obviously Blizzard and Giga Drain (maybe Energy Ball). Considering they're the only moves Snover uses in 9 out of 10 battles, it's a bit hard to test moves in the last two slots. Here are the moves I'm considering:
  • Hidden Power Fire - hits Steel-types
  • Hidden Power Rock - hits Fire-types
  • Water Pulse - hits Fire-types, but misses 2HKO on Vulpix. It misses the OHKO on Larvesta, but it still 2HKOs, which is fine because HP Rock/Water Pulse are meant to be used on the switch. The main draw is the ability to run it alongside another Hidden Power.
  • Hidden Power Ground - a middle-ground, hits Vulpix, Ponyta, Honedge, Magnemite, but is worse vs. Ferro, Larvesta, Bronzor
  • Ice Shard - The only option here that isn't prediction-based, and it actually allows Snover to beat Fletchling w/ some prior damage.
  • Hidden Power Fighting - cuz Pawn I guess
Right now, I'm thinking either HP Fire and Water Pulse together for perfect coverage vs. switch-ins, or Ice Shard + HP Rock to hit Fire-types and Fletchling. Any thoughts?
 
Last edited:
HP Rock + Ice Shard have been the best combo I've experimented with, in which case the EV Spread should be 100 Att/ 180 SpAtt/ 200 Spe with Naive Nature, to take priority better.
 
Shaymin :D said:
HP Rock + Ice Shard have been the best combo I've experimented with, in which case the EV Spread should be 100 Att/ 180 SpAtt/ 200 Spe with Naive Nature, to take priority better.
Click to expand...
That's the exact spread/moves I've been running on my team, and I can attest to Ice Shard's usefulness.
 
This is a must include: Hidden Power Fire needs to be in the Choice Scarf set. Not /just/ for steel types, but for Pawniard and Ferroseed and even fellow Snovers specifically. 4x damage speaks for itself. Therefore it shouldn't be slashed with Ice Shard if there's a different Hidden Power slashed with a seperate move.
It should be:

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Water Pulse / Ice Shard
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Rock
ability: Snow Warning
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 116 HP / 184 SpA / 200 Spe
nature: Timid / Naive

It would then be worth noting that unless Snover has a guaranteed KO on a fire type, it should not be kept in under any circumstances and your team options should reflect this. This calc proves the almost uselessness of water pulse:
184 SpA Snover Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after hail damage.
0.4% chance to 2HKO is pitiful.

So yeah, amend this please, the rest of the team is usually there to help Snover with fire types.
 
Orphic said:
This is a must include: Hidden Power Fire needs to be in the Choice Scarf set. Not /just/ for steel types, but for Pawniard and Ferroseed and even fellow Snovers specifically. 4x damage speaks for itself. Therefore it shouldn't be slashed with Ice Shard if there's a different Hidden Power slashed with a seperate move.
It should be:

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Water Pulse / Ice Shard
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Rock
ability: Snow Warning
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 116 HP / 184 SpA / 200 Spe
nature: Timid / Naive

It would then be worth noting that unless Snover has a guaranteed KO on a fire type, it should not be kept in under any circumstances and your team options should reflect this. This calc proves the almost uselessness of water pulse:
184 SpA Snover Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after hail damage.
0.4% chance to 2HKO is pitiful.

So yeah, amend this please, the rest of the team is usually there to help Snover with fire types.
Click to expand...

Good points. The main thing I want to avoid is people running both Water Pulse and HP Rock, because they have the same targets (Fire-type switch-ins), but slashing Hidden Powers in two separate slots is definitely confusing. And although Water Pulse is incredibly niche, so are the other Hidden Powers, since they are incredibly prediction based and only 60 BP. Hidden Power Fire is really only useful for hitting Ferroseed and other Snover, that's about it, because
184 SpA Snover Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
0.4% chance to 2HKO is pitiful, plus it will Sucker Punch. Doesn't 2HKO Bronzor either.

On a separate note, HP Fighting won't OHKO Pawn after hail damage, so it's not that great either. It's basically a tossup between HP Fire/Rock/Ground, Water Pulse, and Ice Shard, all of which will pretty much see no use in most battles anyway. I've kinda taken a liking to Ice Shard as of late because it can beat Fletchling with some prior damage. Whether or not it deserves its own moveslot is up for debate, but it requires an EV spread change as Shaymin :D noted if this is the case. Ice Shard+HP Fire provides the utilities of priority and hitting steel-types, while HP Fire+Water Pulse provides coverage against all possible switch-ins. So, I guess it's up in the air, but I'm gonna put Ice Shard in the third slot (alongside 104 Atk / 184 SpA / 200 Spe) with HP Fire/Rock and Water Pulse slashed in the last slot for now.
 
ice shard slot 3, then the last slot should be hp fighting/fire/rock/ground.

rock hits fires and especially larvesta hard
fire hits steels, particuarly ferro
fight hits steels, particularly pawniard, the most common one
ground hits both fires and steels, missed out on larv and ferro though, hits magnemite hardest.
all have advantages

also, an eviolite set should be added
 
I would remove the part from the intro about the weather limit being a hinderance, since hail stall or any stall for that matter isn't really a thing in lc, Snover isn't affected much anyway. Since his primary use is usually a late game sweep, revenge kill or scaring something out with its choice scarf, the hail turn limit doesn't hurt much, Snover just comes in again and resets it.
For team options, be more specific, for example your own vulpix or growlithe to take fire blast and energy ball from Vulpix.
Then, if you feel it's ready for QC checks, you should move it into QC.
 
Slight nitpick but this happened to me:
Use the correct formatting for your Checks & Counters section:
**Fairy types**: Spritzee and Snubbull are both immune to Axew's stab and are bulky enough to receive little damage from coverage moves unboosted. Snubbull especially because of intimidate.
Name the threat and give examples like i've done here, its the easiest way.
 
I really don't like slashing all 4 Hidden Powers in there, but after thinking about it, they all have their merits. However, I do believe that HP Fight should be removed from the slashing but still mentioned, simply because it does the "least" to help Snover's coverage. The only thing it hits harder than HP Fire or Ground is Pawniard, and even then it doesn't even OHKO it. I understand that Pawniard is pretty important, but considering that its still only one Pokemon, and the fact that there are plenty of great Fighting-types to use, I don't think HP Fight is worth the slot. If the other QC members agree, I propose having the slashing read HP Fire/HP Rock/HP Ground with a mention of HP Fighting if you really hate Pawniard.

Other than that, I like this.

QC 1/3
 
Thanks Hawkstar. I agree that HP Fight is probably the least useful out of the Hidden Powers, since it really only hits one target (Pawniard), and doesn't even OHKO. The other three Hidden Powers have the potential to hit a few different targets. Personally, I think the order should be HP Rock / HP Fire / HP Ground, since Fire-types like Vulpix and Ponyta get much more usage than Ferroseed, Bronzor, and Snover, but QC can decide that. I'll put it as Fire/Rock/Ground for now.

Ready for second check.
 
  • Remove the mention of Murkrow from Team Options.
  • Archen should be added to Team Options as an answer to a few of things that give Snover a lot of problems, including Fletchling and Houndour. It is additionally useful for hazard control to help keep Snover alive throughout the match. Snover makes a unique wall to Archen's Water weakness, being a Grass-type that isn't weak to Ice and can wall Chinchou rather comfortably since HP Fire is a rare move for it to carry in the current metagame.
  • Checks & Counters should include Pawniard, Magnemite, Trubbish, and Fighting-types in general. Snover can actually put the hurt on many of these Pokemon as they switch in, providing it has the right Hidden Power and with some careful prediction, but it can only run one Hidden Power on a set; knowing what you can and cannot threaten on the switch is important. Fletchling, Mienfoo, Magnemite, and Larvesta should get special mentions here for being able to capitalize on momentum with U-turn/Volt Switch as Snover is forced to either switch out or be knocked out.

QC 2/3
 
Thanks Bri for the additions, can't believe I missed that Murkrow mention lol. Anyway, I edited in your stuff.

ALSO, after some thought, I changed the Hidden Power order to Rock, Ground, Fire, simply because Bronzor/Snover aren't relevant targets this gen. Ferro is the only thing you're actually hitting tbh. HP Rock will nail the much more common Ponyta/Houndour/Larvesta on the switch, while HP Ground hits Pony/Doge/Magnemite/Honedge. So anyway that's why I switched it around. If anyone disagrees lemme know.

Ready for third check.
 
'If using Ice Shard, move the HP investment into Attack and switch the nature to Naive.' ice shard has its own slash

you talk about scarf in the eviolite usage tips: change this lol. talk about being a good switch in to water-types, as wel as being a good lure since people expect it to be choice locked. it can bluff a scarf well.

mention other fighters in counters alongside foo, and just give steel-types their own section tbh

3/3
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top