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FakeSpeed that hits ghost, meaning Sableye is not a reliable answer to Belly Drum/Shell Smash sets. STAB High Jump Kick for Steel types that also has the benefit of hitting Skarm.
I've personally been using a revenge-killing set and haven't found it too broken, but I'm probably just running it wrong.
And High Jump Kick against Sableye and Skarmory, I will add.
Edit: chuun ninja af
With a little luck, Quagsire can beat it with one hand tied behind its back. This is truer for Belly Drum sets.
word suggested that Lovely Kiss + Set Up makes it too powerful. That depends on what's put to sleep, if at all it can put anything to sleep with that shaky accuracy.
I'm not against bans, but as I mentioned elsewhere, if you ban something soon, the meta will never adapt to it. It may seem like some of the new Megas are OP. I say let them sit for a while and people will come up with new ideas for checks and counter.
Say you are a beginner in BH. It only takes so many tries against a Sturdinja to say 'Fuck it' and run a Status/Trapping move on your sweeper. At one point, you were possibly convinced that Shedinja was unbeatable, but as the meta adapts, so do you.
Keep this in mind while posting your thoughts. Innovation is always welcome with open hands.
I think we should not get antsy and hyper quickban things, although i do see mega lop getting borked. The only way to beat it is predict, and while its predictability makes it not too hard to beat, thats just not a valid argument.
Lets not be haste, somebody may come running in with innovations that redefine the meta to where mega lop isnt broken. Lets at least make sure we are thorough and have good community support.
I think we should not get antsy and hyper quickban things, although i do see mega lop getting borked. The only way to beat it is predict, and while its predictability makes it not too hard to beat, thats just not a valid argument.
Lets not be haste, somebody may come running in with innovations that redefine the meta to where mega lop isnt broken. Lets at least make sure we are thorough and have good community support.
Ehh, I'm not a fan of keeping broken things in the meta if they're actually broken tbh; I would rather have all broken things banned instead of waiting for an innovation.
Anyways, this thing is insanely strong and I'm in favor a ban for it simply because it's nearly impossible to wall because of it's flawless coverage with just its STAB moves all-around. Also, I don't really like High Jump Kick; I prefer Drain Punch because that miss chance is so sad!
Also shoutout to w0rd for bringing up these three suspects!!
Lovely kiss has "shaky" accuracy? Not only is it only 5% less than dark void, but it's just as accurate as sleep powder, a move which helped make Gen V Venusaur so threatening. And if you get a 75% chance each game to set up a near unstoppable win condition, I'd say that's a roll in its user's favor.
Kangaskhan has one viable set. Stoutland has 1.5 (offensive spinner...). Both of these were very potent threats in XY due to scrappy belly drum with perfect neutral coverage. Not only does Lopunny have naturally higher attack, but it has neutral STAB coverage, letting it power through things like skarm after a boost. On top of this, it's the fastest espeeder in the tier, meaning the only thing guaranteed to land on it is a fake out (which diggs cannot kill with from 50%)
The fact that it isn't entirely 1-dimensional means that you can't guarantee what set it's running just at team preview. Much like Genesect where you were forced to play assuming that it was scarfed, Loppunny's opponent must play assuming BD. However it could also be running just a fast offensive mon/ revenge killing set which are also effective, but in different ways.
Not "quick banning" a pokemon that we know is broken and feel will remain broken after testing just to "give it a chance" is illogical and defies the entire point of a quick ban, which is to get said pokemon out of the tier quickly. Also, putting our decisions in the faith that some drastic change or innovation will be made is not sound nor intelligent.
Mega-Loppunny applies far too much offensive pressure and is too efficient at what it does to allow it to be healthy in the meta. It's long-term stay in the tier will turn matches into the elimination of opposing Ditto and Quagsire then a race to get a BD.
The council voted and the results came to 5 Ban / 2 DNB / 1 Abstain. The reason for this ban is because Mega Lopunny was just too insane for the metagame; nothing securely counters it bar Skarmory. Waiting for something to come around and check Lopunny was not healthy and so we decided that simply banning it would save us time and allow the metagame to run a lot more smoothly. Between Belly Drum and Shell Smash, Lopunny was just too difficult to stop and what pushed it over the edge is its Fighting typing and Scrappy; it's just way too much. Other council member please provide input as well!
Tagging The Immortal kindly to implement this please .
This will be the second of three Pokemon we're suspecting in rapid succession over the next week or so. ORAS has given STABmons a lot of powerful new megas and some have proven to be very centralizing and/or unstoppable with their combination of stats, abilities, high-powered attacks, and typing.
#2. Mega Metagross
- Tough Claws
80 / 145 / 150 / 105 / 110 / 110
If you are in favor of banning a suspect, please provide examples of why they are unhealthy for the metagame with replays, calcs, anecdotes explaining their over-centralization, lack of true checks/counters, etc.
If you are not in favor of a ban, please provide the examples of how they are reliably checked/countered by other Pokemon that can still function well in STABmons.
Metagross gains only Shift Gear and King's Shield as useful STAB from this meta (It already gets good Psychic and Steel STAB)(COULD BE MISSING SOMETHING PLS DONT KILL ME). So I'm assuming the set people assume to be broken and ban-worthy is Shift Gear
Glancing over the viability rankings the things that could check this at +1 Atk and +2 Speed is:
- T-Wave Thundy
- Opposing Metagross depending on movepools
- Scizor
- Skarm (Movepool dependent)
- Quagsire (If grass-knot less)
- Ferrothorn
stopped at B rank but yea. at first im skeptical about banning this but i'll get some games with it and see how it does
First of all, it is so heavy that Heavy Slam hits almost the entire meta for 120BP. With STAB and Tough Claws factored in, that's a 240BP move with no drawbacks (no recoil, no stat drops... nothing). To put things into perspective that is stronger than a STAB Boomburst (210BP), and a resisted Heavy Slam hits harder than most neutral coverage moves.
Secondly, Shift Gear. With base 110 speed, it needs just 1 Shift Gear to outspeed pretty much every thing - including scarfers. Even scarf Jolteon (lol) gets outsped, so revenge killing Mega Metagross is easier said than done. It also has very high defenses, meaning that even priority will struggle to take it down.
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With base 110 speed and 145 attack, you don't even need to Shift Gear against a lot of things.
"But you can just use Unaware..." - nope. It beats every Unaware pokemon easily. Even with an Adamant or Jolly Nature, Grass Knot is a clean OHKO on Quagsire
(0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 404-476 (102.5 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
and it's a very viable move on Shift Gear sets, considering how strong Heavy Slam is even on resists. I don't think it's necessary to calc how well Clefable handles Metagross...
There are very few checks/counters. You can basically pick and choose what "counters" you by what coverage move you decide to run. Jellicent and Rotom get smashed by Zen Headbutt. Slowbro and Quagsire get destroyed by Grass Knot. Ferrothorn and Skarmory don't appreciate a Hammer Arm.
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body (Magic Bounce)
EVs: 252 Atk or SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Timid Nature
- Play Rough / Moonblast
- Diamond Storm / Power Gem
- Moonlight
- Stealth Rock / Calm Mind / Filler
Okay, this is two sets in one post but they function nearly the same and the damage output is similar too, until you factor in Calm Mind for special sets.
Here's why I like Diancie: Like Metagross, its base forme resists negative stat modifications from Intimidate or Parting Shot, meaning you can keep it in regular Diancie forme if you anticipate a Lando-T switch-in, hit it with a physical move, and then mega evolve the next turn and hit it again without suffering -1. That's just one example.
It has nifty resistances that when coupled with Magic Bounce lets it check a lot of threats in STABmons. Diggersby for one can hit it with SE Earthquake since its own FakeSpeed is resisted, but Mega D outspeeds and can hit it first with Play Rough or Moonblast off base 160 Atk / SAtk, which can KO with prior damage and/or hazards. Mega Pidgeot (aka #TheVoice) can't put it to sleep with Sing and all its attacks are resisted. Mega Charizard-Y must opt for Solar Beam, but Diancie hits it with Diamond Storm / Power Gem first for the clean OHKO.
Other things it can beat include Tyranitar without Earthquake, though don't count on Moonlight for recovery; Terrakion, which it outspeeds; Sableye, which can only phaze with Parting Shot and is bound to slip up or just waste PP as you switch back in perpetually; Talonflame; most Kyurem without Earth Power; most versions of Lati@s; Darkrai; Thundurus, which doesn't have a SE hit and can't Prankster Taunt/Twave.
Unfortunately Steel-types are common and scare the crystals right off Diancie. Remove them first. Its defenses also drop when it mega evolves so it can't always tank hits as well as it would like. It can't boost its Attack outside of Sharpen, though it can boost its Defense thanks to Diamond Storm and lower the opponent's Attack thanks to Play Rough, so it has a little disruptive flavor built in. And lastly, it really lacks in coverage and Chansey will come in and ruin your fun if you're not running Substitute. Luckily she can't Whirlwind you out thanks to Magic Bounce.
Anyway, try Diancie out! She may face heavy competition from other megas, but Magic Bounce and her unique typing is still a good sell.
I've found Protect to be very useful on Mega-Diancie, because it can be difficult to find an opportunity to mega evolve without it. Against offense, pretty much everything outspeeds you (and can get a heavy hit on you) on the turn you mega evolve.
Obviously you have to be wary of potentially giving your opponent a free turn, but the utility of being able to mega evolve against and then outspeed stuff (that could otherwise OHKO you) like Charizard-Y, Landorus, and Keldeo can be a lifesaver.
Diancie-M's best bet is a mixed set of Play Rough / Moomblast (Light of Ruin, when it's legal) / Moonlight / Protect or Stealth Rock. Remove Steel Types from the equation and you're threatening the opponent's entire team with humongous Base Attacks. Plus Magic Bounce makes sure you're safe from passive damage moves.
Magzezone would obviously be a great team mate, being x1/4 resistant to Steel and immune to Poison, not to mention trapping Steel types. In turn, Stealth Rock would help Magnezone. Doom Desire + King's Shield spam + VSwitching momentum to Diancie-M would do wonders as well.
Our next suspect test it complete, with a vote of 5 Ban / 2 DNB / 1 Abstain. The reason for the banning of this item is that Mega Metagross was insanely difficult to wall and was virtually impossible to stop. Thanks to solid all-around bulk, high Speed, Shift Gear, and a powerful Heavy Slam (boosted by Tough Claws, might I add), Mega Metagross was too much. Most of the council agreed it was broken, word and DinaIsha being particularly strong supporters; PM them if you're still unsure why this ban took place! I'd love if some other council members could provide summaries as to why they voted no as well, pinging Scarfnaut. Personally, I voted abstain as I was unsure whether it was broken or not and no argument convinced me to either side; though, it was pretty much unanimous among the council it would be banned.
Pinging The Immortal to please implement this ban whenever possible .
This will be the third of three Pokemon we're suspecting in rapid succession over the next week or so. ORAS has given STABmons a lot of powerful new megas and some have proven to be very centralizing and/or unstoppable with their combination of stats, abilities, high-powered attacks, and typing.
#3. Mega Slowbro
- Shell Armor
95 / 75 / 180 / 130 / 80 / 30
If you are in favor of banning a suspect, please provide examples of why they are unhealthy for the metagame with replays, calcs, anecdotes explaining their over-centralization, lack of true checks/counters, etc.
If you are not in favor of a ban, please provide the examples of how they are reliably checked/countered by other Pokemon that can still function well in STABmons.
Please don't ban. Mega Slowbro is healthy, (not to mention the pair up with chan) and only has 2 amazing stats, one of which is only 10 more than its crossover to KyuB. Besides, he's awesome.
This will be the third of three Pokemon we're suspecting in rapid succession over the next week or so. ORAS has given STABmons a lot of powerful new megas and some have proven to be very centralizing and/or unstoppable with their combination of stats, abilities, high-powered attacks, and typing.
#3. Mega Slowbro
- Shell Armor
95 / 75 / 180 / 130 / 80 / 30
If you are in favor of banning a suspect, please provide examples of why they are unhealthy for the metagame with replays, calcs, anecdotes explaining their over-centralization, lack of true checks/counters, etc.
If you are not in favor of a ban, please provide the examples of how they are reliably checked/countered by other Pokemon that can still function well in STABmons.
Thank fucking christ. Welcome to the most downright destructive defensive mon stabmons has ever seen (no exaggeration). Mega Slowbro is all kinds of broken, its unreal physical bulk making it nearly impossible to break when coupled with a half decent team.
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-283 (61.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
stab super effective life orb boosted base 130 power attack...can't come close to an ohko. Slowbro-M has the ability to KO a lot of these mons as well, due to its base 130 special attack stat and access to several good moves such as scald and psystrike.
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 321-380 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
...........you see how ridiculous this is. This plus chansey beats so many teams without mixed lures such as thundy. Did I mention that slowbro can easily beat almost all keldeo variants not named specs water spout at max hp (which does 60%) without sdef investment (full HP ofc).
With any half decent teambuilder, they can make an almost unbeatable stall team due to this mons incredible ability to wall almost the entire tier. Lets go through the mons on the viability rankings, shall we:
Diggersby - Walled
Heatran - Beaten
Landorus-T - Beaten
Sableye - Meh...it wins but comes out burned (most of the time) Thundurus-I - Loses to it, but a nice little thundy counter and that is fixed.
Azumarill - Walled Char-Y - Although it beats it, the oppurtunity cost of zard Y makes me wonder why i can even consider it a viable check in the first place (oh and its NOT switching in). Landorus-I - Viable check, notice that it also cannot switch in.
Scizor - Only banded vairants who are stupid enough to lock themselves into megahorn. So shaky i don't even consider it.
Skarmory - I mean...unless you consider whirlwind beating it...
Talonflame - Walled, BD can't set up
Tyranitar - Usually walled, unless the slowbro user is bad at predicting sucker punches (since it can just stall it out of PP otherwise)
Aegislash - most sets aren't running shadow ball, and those sets aren't that good in stabmons, so tbh i don't think we can call this a check/counter
Aerodactyl - 252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Charizard-X - Needs to get off a shitton of boosts, so not happening.
Kangaskhan - Walled
Kyu-B - Walled
Meloetta - don't switch in, and its not even all that good anymore on anything but its tank set which loses.
Stoutland - walled
Togekiss - If you get off a geo, but thats hardly grounds to call it a check/counter.
You can see the amount of mons this wall. Even though with chansey and a few specific mons to beat other threats (mixed thundy, etc.) this thing is nearly unbreakable, this alone doesn't make it broken. What makes it broken is the fact that it walls more than half of the tier and is VERSATILE.
Nobody talks about the tank set that hits like a freaking truck while shrugging off tons of hits.
Nobody talks about the Heart Swap sets that can actually be really good at stopping setup sweepers.
Nobody talks about the calm mind sets that have tons of mixed bulk.
Nobody talks about the toxic lures that cripple so many checks and counters.
Nobody talks about that stupid ass water spout set that actually beats so much shit since slowbro makes everything switch
These are all sets that are completely different. Switch in your thundy to a tank set? get hit with predicted ice beam. Try to set up with meloetta or something? Get heart swapped. It doesn't matter. Slowbro is downright DESTRUCTIVE in this meta, and is extremely limiting for teambuilding. I hope the stall circlejerk doesn't prevent people from realizing how broken this mon is. It is a catch all for 3/4 of the tier and ALL of their sets, and with decent team support, can literally beat EVERYTHING.
Please don't ban. Mega Slowbro is healthy, (not to mention the pair up with chan) and only has 2 amazing stats, one of which is only 10 more than its crossover to KyuB. Besides, he's awesome.
Thank fucking christ. Welcome to the most downright destructive defensive mon stabmons has ever seen (no exaggeration). Mega Slowbro is all kinds of broken, its unreal physical bulk making it nearly impossible to break when coupled with a half decent team.
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-283 (61.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
stab super effective life orb boosted base 130 power attack...can't come close to an ohko. Slowbro-M has the ability to KO a lot of these mons as well, due to its base 130 special attack stat and access to several good moves such as scald and psystrike.
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 321-380 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
...........you see how ridiculous this is. This plus chansey beats so many teams without mixed lures such as thundy. Did I mention that slowbro can easily beat almost all keldeo variants not named specs water spout at max hp (which does 60%) without sdef investment (full HP ofc).
With any half decent teambuilder, they can make an almost unbeatable stall team due to this mons incredible ability to wall almost the entire tier. Lets go through the mons on the viability rankings, shall we:
Diggersby - Walled
Heatran - Beaten
Landorus-T - Beaten
Sableye - Meh...it wins but comes out burned (most of the time) Thundurus-I - Loses to it, but a nice little thundy counter and that is fixed.
Azumarill - Walled Char-Y - Although it beats it, the oppurtunity cost of zard Y makes me wonder why i can even consider it a viable check in the first place (oh and its NOT switching in). Landorus-I - Viable check, notice that it also cannot switch in.
Scizor - Only banded vairants who are stupid enough to lock themselves into megahorn. So shaky i don't even consider it.
Skarmory - I mean...unless you consider whirlwind beating it...
Talonflame - Walled, BD can't set up
Tyranitar - Usually walled, unless the slowbro user is bad at predicting sucker punches (since it can just stall it out of PP otherwise)
Aegislash - most sets aren't running shadow ball, and those sets aren't that good in stabmons, so tbh i don't think we can call this a check/counter
Aerodactyl - 252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Charizard-X - Needs to get off a shitton of boosts, so not happening.
Kangaskhan - Walled
Kyu-B - Walled
Meloetta - don't switch in, and its not even all that good anymore on anything but its tank set which loses.
Stoutland - walled
Togekiss - If you get off a geo, but thats hardly grounds to call it a check/counter.
You can see the amount of mons this wall. Even though with chansey and a few specific mons to beat other threats (mixed thundy, etc.) this thing is nearly unbreakable, this alone doesn't make it broken. What makes it broken is the fact that it walls more than half of the tier and is VERSATILE.
Nobody talks about the tank set that hits like a freaking truck while shrugging off tons of hits.
Nobody talks about the Heart Swap sets that can actually be really good at stopping setup sweepers.
Nobody talks about the calm mind sets that have tons of mixed bulk.
Nobody talks about the toxic lures that cripple so many checks and counters.
Nobody talks about that stupid ass water spout set that actually beats so much shit since slowbro makes everything switch
These are all sets that are completely different. Switch in your thundy to a tank set? get hit with predicted ice beam. Try to set up with meloetta or something? Get heart swapped. It doesn't matter. Slowbro is downright DESTRUCTIVE in this meta, and is extremely limiting for teambuilding. I hope the stall circlejerk doesn't prevent people from realizing how broken this mon is. It is a catch all for 3/4 of the tier and ALL of their sets, and with decent team support, can literally beat EVERYTHING.
I agree that it was kinda biased, but Mega Slowbro still hates toxic, and that can be used alongside a predict to nab a Chansey KO. Afterward, toxic will destroy that Slowbro while you switch into your preferred wall (slowking anyone?)
Thank fucking christ. Welcome to the most downright destructive defensive mon stabmons has ever seen (no exaggeration). Mega Slowbro is all kinds of broken, its unreal physical bulk making it nearly impossible to break when coupled with a half decent team.
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-283 (61.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
stab super effective life orb boosted base 130 power attack...can't come close to an ohko. Slowbro-M has the ability to KO a lot of these mons as well, due to its base 130 special attack stat and access to several good moves such as scald and psystrike.
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 321-380 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
...........you see how ridiculous this is. This plus chansey beats so many teams without mixed lures such as thundy. Did I mention that slowbro can easily beat almost all keldeo variants not named specs water spout at max hp (which does 60%) without sdef investment (full HP ofc).
With any half decent teambuilder, they can make an almost unbeatable stall team due to this mons incredible ability to wall almost the entire tier. Lets go through the mons on the viability rankings, shall we:
Diggersby - Walled
Heatran - Beaten
Landorus-T - Beaten
Sableye - Meh...it wins but comes out burned (most of the time) Thundurus-I - Loses to it, but a nice little thundy counter and that is fixed.
Azumarill - Walled Char-Y - Although it beats it, the oppurtunity cost of zard Y makes me wonder why i can even consider it a viable check in the first place (oh and its NOT switching in). Landorus-I - Viable check, notice that it also cannot switch in.
Scizor - Only banded vairants who are stupid enough to lock themselves into megahorn. So shaky i don't even consider it.
Skarmory - I mean...unless you consider whirlwind beating it...
Talonflame - Walled, BD can't set up
Tyranitar - Usually walled, unless the slowbro user is bad at predicting sucker punches (since it can just stall it out of PP otherwise)
Aegislash - most sets aren't running shadow ball, and those sets aren't that good in stabmons, so tbh i don't think we can call this a check/counter
Aerodactyl - 252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Charizard-X - Needs to get off a shitton of boosts, so not happening.
Kangaskhan - Walled
Kyu-B - Walled
Meloetta - don't switch in, and its not even all that good anymore on anything but its tank set which loses.
Stoutland - walled
Togekiss - If you get off a geo, but thats hardly grounds to call it a check/counter.
You can see the amount of mons this wall. Even though with chansey and a few specific mons to beat other threats (mixed thundy, etc.) this thing is nearly unbreakable, this alone doesn't make it broken. What makes it broken is the fact that it walls more than half of the tier and is VERSATILE.
Nobody talks about the tank set that hits like a freaking truck while shrugging off tons of hits.
Nobody talks about the Heart Swap sets that can actually be really good at stopping setup sweepers.
Nobody talks about the calm mind sets that have tons of mixed bulk.
Nobody talks about the toxic lures that cripple so many checks and counters.
Nobody talks about that stupid ass water spout set that actually beats so much shit since slowbro makes everything switch
These are all sets that are completely different. Switch in your thundy to a tank set? get hit with predicted ice beam. Try to set up with meloetta or something? Get heart swapped. It doesn't matter. Slowbro is downright DESTRUCTIVE in this meta, and is extremely limiting for teambuilding. I hope the stall circlejerk doesn't prevent people from realizing how broken this mon is. It is a catch all for 3/4 of the tier and ALL of their sets, and with decent team support, can literally beat EVERYTHING.
Calc me a +2 Digger's Precipice Blades against MegaBro, please. Plus, I love how you treat Sableye as if it's niche. If you haven't noticed, it's pretty much ~75% of the meta's stall support.
And please don't say 'x Mon can help y Mon. Hence y is broken'. If y Mon needs help, then it probably isn't as good as you think.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge (same BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 308-364 (78.1 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 270-318 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (in case of SD I guess)
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 404-476 (129.9 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Slowbro Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diggersby: 368-434 (118.3 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Steam Eruption)
Diggersby doesn't get countered 100% of the time I guess but more often than not its going to lose.
atm I don't have any defined opinion on M-Slowbro.
.
- Shell Armor
