Stat Switch [Azumarill+Regice Banned]

[Snaquaza]

Suspect Alert

Azumarill is getting suspected. It's new 100 Attack combined with Huge Power is insane and with a band it can 2HKO even the bulkiest of resists. Stall has almost no way to play around it. With its 100 Speed it can even outspeed a lot of Pokemon and force them out, even against offensive teams. Speaking about offense, it has STAB Aqua Jet, which can pick off a lot of Offensive Pokemon and nothing on offense can switch in. This means that you can't preserve your Pokemon. Luckily, in Stat Switch, Azumarill is a lot less bulky as its HP got nerfed. This causes it to be KO'd fairly quickly, but most Azumarill's won't let you. Even it's typing can get handy as it has a lot of things it can check even with lowered bulk.

Whether you're pro-ban or against banning, please post in a civilized manner. Post no one-liners preferably and make sure to explain your vote with good arguments. Calcs are appreciated but no needed. Please state what Azumarill can and can't do and make an objective judgment. Discussing will last about a week. This period can change depending on how quickly people agree though.​

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

Suspect Alert

Azumarill is getting suspected. It's new 100 Attack combined with Huge Power is insane and with a band it can 2HKO even the bulkiest of resists. Stall has almost no way to play around it. With its 100 Speed it can even outspeed a lot of Pokemon and force them out, even against offensive teams. Speaking about offense, it has STAB Aqua Jet, which can pick off a lot of Offensive Pokemon and nothing on offense can switch in. This means that you can't preserve your Pokemon. Luckily, in Stat Switch, Azumarill is a lot less bulky as its HP got nerfed. This causes it to be KO'd fairly quickly, but most Azumarill's won't let you. Even it's typing can get handy as it has a lot of things it can check even with lowered bulk.

Whether you're pro-ban or against banning, please post in a civilized manner. Post no one-liners preferably and make sure to explain your vote with good arguments. Calcs are appreciated but no needed. Please state what Azumarill can and can't do and make an objective judgment. Discussing will last about a week. This period can change depending on how quickly people agree though.​

THANK YOU!!!!

Sorry about that, I just had to get it out. I mean, I am a staller. And there is literally no counters at all outside of Furfrou and Mega Venusaur. Furfrou depends on Wild Charge to knock out Pikablue, who 3HKOes it, while Wild Charge is a 2HKO. He can't really counter it, yet he is one of the closest. Mega Venusaur is the best. But, if it goes down, you are screwed against Azumarill. With Arena Trap/Shadow Tag still around, it can be done with minimal effort, just bait it in and trap it.

Here are some more calcs:

Azumarill damage calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 186-218 (44 - 51.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (ow)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 144-169 (64.2 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 642-759 (147.9 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 97-115 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are the closest things to "counters" Azumarill has. Only a few stay alive. This leaves only one option to stopping it: Revenge killing. While it is easy to revenge kill him, your opponent can easily switch out, rendering this idea is rendered useless. In my opinion, the only way to let it stay here is via unbanning things like Mega Gengar. This may be desperate, but this thing is stupidly overpowered. Even the bulkiest of ubers are paper napkins to Azumarill's sheer brute force.

Pretty much offense can eliminate Azumarill. The problem is that it already eliminates an entire team style from the metagame. In my opinion, if it takes any archetype's it should be banned right there and then. Even if it is offense it is eliminating, it is ban worthy. It needs limited support to do its job, and it does its job a bit too well. And even though it is a lot frailer, it sometimes seems like it is bulkier than it should be in standard play.

 

[FlameUser64]

THANK YOU!!!!

Sorry about that, I just had to get it out. I mean, I am a staller. And there is literally no counters at all outside of Furfrou and Mega Venusaur. Furfrou depends on Wild Charge to knock out Pikablue, who 3HKOes it, while Wild Charge is a 2HKO. He can't really counter it, yet he is one of the closest. Mega Venusaur is the best. But, if it goes down, you are screwed against Azumarill. With Arena Trap/Shadow Tag still around, it can be done with minimal effort, just bait it in and trap it.

Here are some more calcs:

Azumarill damage calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 186-218 (44 - 51.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (ow)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 144-169 (64.2 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 642-759 (147.9 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 97-115 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are the closest things to "counters" Azumarill has. Only a few stay alive. This leaves only one option to stopping it: Revenge killing. While it is easy to revenge kill him, your opponent can easily switch out, rendering this idea is rendered useless. In my opinion, the only way to let it stay here is via unbanning things like Mega Gengar. This may be desperate, but this thing is stupidly overpowered. Even the bulkiest of ubers are paper napkins to Azumarill's sheer brute force.

Pretty much offense can eliminate Azumarill. The problem is that it already eliminates an entire team style from the metagame. In my opinion, if it takes any archetype's it should be banned right there and then. Even if it is offense it is eliminating, it is ban worthy. It needs limited support to do its job, and it does its job a bit too well. And even though it is a lot frailer, it sometimes seems like it is bulkier than it should be in standard play.

Just want to point out that against Tentacruel, Knock Off does not 2HKO because its power drops after Tentacruel loses its Leftovers. Still cripples Tentacruel though.

Also, almost anything KOs Mega Charizard Y after Stealth Rock because it's quad-weak to it, so that honestly doesn't prove a lot realistically speaking. The fact that can potentially 2HKO regardless seems very relevant, however.

 

[Ghoul King]

Hey code people! If nobody has mentioned it to you, right now Stat Switch's code interacts incorrectly with Megas -it skips over the HP stat, yes, but it doesn't look at and use the next-lowest or next-highest stat to make its calculations. So Mega Houndoom is utter garbage right now, for instance, losing its 140 Special Attack and getting nothing in turn.

Re: Azumarill suspect

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Accelgor: 259-306 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Accelgor is a notable benchmark, at 145 Defense and 80 HP. I'm skipping calcing anything with less of both of those unless it's resistant to one or both of Azumarill's STABs, or outspeeds Azumarill while having notable defenses.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 146-172 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 95.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Shaymin Sky could wall its Waterfall pretty well, and might be unbanned since it won't be able to flinch-hax things anywhere near as reliably at 75 base Speed, but on the other hand...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 328-387 (81.1 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ow.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO

Hurrah a non-Uber wall!

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 345-406 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Awwww.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 144-169 (33 - 38.7%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

Oooh, very nice, and Prankster means Whimsicott's loss of Speed is only relevant to Aqua Jet.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 322-381 (73.8 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And it can take a Play Rough! Unfortunately that's too much damage for it to do anything like Worry Seed Azumarill to then survive another hit, and as far as I can tell (unable to dexsearch on Showdown due to its load problems right now) it doesn't learn Synthesis or any other heal-on-demand move. And of course Leech Seed is a lot less effective when Azumarill is down around a third its HP. (Yes I know its base HP is halved, it's complicated) On the other hand, while it's not reliable, it does get Sleep Powder, so it can potentially scare Azumarill into leaving. Or it could Paralyze it instead so other stuff can outspeed.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Starmie: 448-528 (103.2 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Oh man. That sucks. If you switch in on a Waterfall you can just Recover+Leftovers off the damage all day every day, but this is a clean OHKO.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 421-496 (97.9 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Blarghle. Stop that Azumarill!

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 331-390 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Ow.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 186-219 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO

Can switch in on Play Rough at least. With Black Sludge for sure.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 358-422 (84.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

OHMYGOD AZUMARILL I'M TRYING TO PREVENT THEM FROM BANNING YOU QUIT IT

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mismagius: 342-403 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>:(

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 185-218 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Yeah Tentacruel won't be 2HKOed by Knock Off and resists Azumarill's STABs, so that's something. Kinda. Also note that

0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 194-230 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

is not something Tentacruel wants to stay in on. Alas a 0 HP EVs Azumarill isn't OHKOed.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 394-464 (111.9 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

why you do this to me Ferrothorn. Why is Defense your highest statistic normal.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 382-451 (103.2 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dry Skin makes it immune to Water outright but. Uh. Welp. It's not even faster than Azumarill.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Vileplume: 165-195 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Unfortunately Vileplume's worst stat is Speed. Dangit. It actually walls Azumarill OK if you invest everything into HP and Defense, but its Special Attack ends up crap too. Eeeh.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victreebel: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Goldurnit Victreebell! And Knock Off removes so much of its health its a 2HKO. I mean, with maxed Defense EVs on top of everything Victreebell can take basically anything retaliate with

0 SpA Victreebel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 236-278 (97.9 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

so that's pretty nice.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 411-484 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

fffff. It also doesn't outspeed. It walls everything else pretty well though.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 169-199 (41.8 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ooooh. It walls Waterfall better than that and Knock Off better than that, too. Mega Venusaur: checks Azumarill.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 167-197 (50 - 58.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Qwilfish can take anything Azumarill throws at it, due to Intimidate. Meanwhile

0 SpA Qwilfish Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 224-266 (92.9 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

YEAH SCREW YOU AZUMARILL

I was gonna calc Ammongus until I saw it swaps HP for Speed. No. So instead...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 323-380 (86.8 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Stop crushing my dreams Empoleon! Keep in mind if it survives it outspeeds Azumarill for equal investment. But if you're a fast Physical sweeper Empoleon, it just OHKOs with Knock Off and 2HKOs with both Play Rough and Waterfall, so that's not a help.

So basically Mega Venusaur, Tentacruel and Qwilfish can all switch in on it and then drive it off. (Because they do abominable damage via Poison) Qwilfish and Tentacruel in particular both stand out to me for being able to set Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock in the process. Volcanion, once it's released, might be relevant too, but I can't pull numbers because I can't log into Showdown right now.

Not quite willing to say Azumarill shouldn't be banned, but I'd like to see some stall teams try running Mega Venusaur oand/or Qwilfish and see if they adequately check/counter Azumarill before we commit to that. I'd also appreciate suspecting some Ubers for the possibility of unbanning them, myself, 'cause some of them might help and be merely OU material in Stat Switch. (Like Shaymin-Sky, who becomes a modestly fast wall -with a double weakness to Ice)

EDIT: Special mention for Shedinja, who is immune to Azumarill's STABs.

 

[FlameUser64]

Azu vs. Volcanion (even if you can't /dt, you can still use the Teambuilder!):
Volcanion's stats in Damage Calculator and Teambuilder differ. Serebii agrees with the stats from the Teambuilder, so I'm using those. Sp. Atk swaps with Speed. Final spread: 80/110/120/70/90/130.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcanion: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%)

Aqua Jet and Waterfall of course do nothing due to Water Absorb.

Play Rough only manages this:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcanion: 127-150 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- 73.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Then Volcanion just Wisps it and that's that. Also, Volcanion outspeeds, so it can potentially fire off a Will-O-Wisp before Azumarill can do anything about it, especially with Water immunity preventing it from getting Aqua Jetted.

Shaymin-Sky and Genesect could be suspected for unbanning. Maybe a few of the deo formes as well (specifically Deoxys-Defense), but I'm less convinced of that. Aegislash is almost a guaranteed unban as well, I'd think.

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

The login server is under heavy load, please try logging in again later

DAMMIT Aqua, why do you claim that you are under "heavy load" when there are only 7 users online??????
I would go on, BUT I can't because of this. And after you do stop saying that, WHY do you have to claim that I have entered in the wrong password when I know my password is correct???? More importantly, why did you log me out without my consent?????????????

 

[Pikachuun]

The login server is under heavy load, please try logging in again later

DAMMIT Aqua, why do you claim that you are under "heavy load" when there are only 7 users online??????
I would go on, BUT I can't because of this.

This is the same thing that's going on with main. I think all of PS is effected tbh

 

[Throbulator36]

The login server is under heavy load, please try logging in again later

DAMMIT Aqua, why do you claim that you are under "heavy load" when there are only 7 users online??????
I would go on, BUT I can't because of this. And after you do stop saying that, WHY do you have to claim that I have entered in the wrong password when I know my password is correct???? More importantly, why did you log me out without my consent?????????????

I'm pretty sure the login server connects all the servers.

 

[Mr155551]

i tried to login on main and it's still not working so yes i think all servers are affected

 

[Snaquaza]

i tried to login on main and it's still not working so yes i think all servers are affected

Most servers can be joined right now, though you'll have a hard time logging in. You'll eventually log in if you spam getting your nick. Aqua is online atm and works, though as every name is de-reg'd, we've installed a lobby RO for th emoment as you don't need to be regged for that. So yes, you can join the server.

That said, lets stop talking about PS problems in this thread.

 

[Ghoul King]

Also to add to Azumarill: priority isn't even much of answer to it because it resists almost all priority moves, so even if you're faster or can take an Aqua Jet priority won't let you switch in and do real damage to Azumarill, even aside from how difficult it is to switch in and survive.

Notable examples include...

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 124-147 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

145 Attack (Mega Metagross' Defense is its highest stat, remember) STAB Tough Claws Bullet Punch is decent, but not great. Meanwhile, even with no item being removed this happens

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 374-440 (102.7 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

ow. Whyyy does Mega Metagross have to sacrifice Defense for Special Attack? Of course you could actually Iron Head for a clean OHKO, and in fact Metagross outspeeds Azumarill for equal investment both before and after Mega Evolution, but this basically just means Azumarill is forced to switch out on a revenge-switch from Metagross.

252+ Atk Hustle Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 164-193 (68 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Togekiss can push past an Aqua Jet and all for a 2HKO (Or if it's Banded itself, possibly a OHKO), but...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 373-439 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

So Togekiss can't switch in safely on a Banded Azumarill to try to scare it out. Which is too bad since it can actually Roost off damage.

I wanna calc Zygarde, but it trades Defense for Special Attack. Too depressing. Arcanine is of course vulnerable to Waterfall, Deoxys is banned and only Defense has any chance of dropping from Ubers and it's -uuuh...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 616-726 (117.5 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

yeah that's not gonna help.

Rayquaza is also unlikely to drop from Ubers and would be of little help

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 566-668 (136.7 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

because of that.

Lucario is actually kind of notable because

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 316-373 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

is usually not a KO, even Play Rough isn't automatically a KO, and with some investment (Lucario is actually pretty tough in this meta) they can both be pushed to a for-sure survival at which point you can

252+ Atk Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 103-122 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

do that, which is pretty nice and can be better. (Life Orb it for instance) I'm skipping calcs of Mega Lucario because in all honesty it's not a clear improvement over regular Lucario, dropping Defense, not raising Special Defense by that much, and being Special oriented to Lucario's Physical oriented, (Regular Lucario has slightly more Special Attack than Attack, while Mega Lucario flips that slight difference, resulting in a radical reversal in Stat Switch) none of which helps against Azumarill. But this is still not really a good way to deal with Azumarill -it's just a Pokemon Azumarill would be ill-advised to switch in on itself. (Because Lucario could wham it with Iron Head and finish it with Extreme Speed no matter what it does if it survives the Iron Head, which it always will if it hasn't been injured)

Skipping Arceus because it's solidly Ubers and staying there, skipping Dragonite because it drops to 80 Attack -actually...

It'll outspeed Azumarill (134 Speed!), so between Multiscale and resisting Aqua Jet, if it switches in successfully it can do this

252+ SpA Dragonite Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 216-256 (89.6 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Which is quite nice, and you can give it Life Orb/Choice Specs/Expert Belt/Zap Plate/whatever to push it over into OHKO territory. Unfortunately...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 418-493 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... Play Rough is only not a OHKO on Dragonite if it pushes its Physical bulk hard. So it's not actually safe for Dragonite to switch in, Multiscale or no. I suppose you could hold a Roseli Berry to reliably survive without major bulk investment, but that's a specialized check that only works once.

252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 115-136 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO

This is nice for Linoone, but Aqua Jet very nearly OHKOs it. No way is it switching in on Azumarill.

252+ Atk Life Orb Raikou Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 113-134 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Raikou doesn't hit that hard and

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 357-421 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

can't switch in safely, particularly since Azumarill will actually outspeed it, meaning it has to hang the threat of Extreme Speed over Azumarill or risk being annihilated without doing anything. Wonderful. I'm not even going to calc anything to do with Entei because it drops its HP and Attack and is vulnerable to Water moves, while Suicune is...

252+ Atk Suicune Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 106-125 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO

... not so hot, especially when you consider

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 227-267 (56.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

that Waterfall is a 2HKO. Knock Off has a chance of being a OHKO, and other than missing Play Rough is always a OHKO by quite the margin.

Raichu?

252+ Atk Life Orb Raichu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 117-138 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

No. And it's OHKOed by Waterfall and Play Rough.

252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 135-159 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's cool Pikachu, but

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Pikachu: 237-279 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

oi. (It's Defense maxed because Pikachu gets 90 HP in Stat Switch -Defense EVs go farther) Yes, Aqua Jet is nearly a OHKO. I don't even need to show you the numbers on everything else -it's all OHKOs.

Well, how about Ubers Genesect? It could get dropped to OU in this.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 152-179 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(+1 on the idea that Download gives you an Attack boost)

Well, that's neat.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 373-441 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And hey, it does survive Watefall!

So basically you could maybe string two of these guys together on a stubborn opponent refusing to switch out Azumarill and take it down that way by sacrificing a teammate. Hooray.

How about that Fake Out?

252+ Atk Hariyama Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 55-65 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 39.1% chance to 4HKO

Pretty good, and let's assume it's Guts with a Flame Orb so it can follow up with

252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 82-97 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Well that's pretty good!

Oh by the way Azumarill outspeeds and

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 271-319 (95.4 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

reduces Hariyama to a steaming crater before it does anything other than Fake Out 68.8% of the time.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 103-123 (42.7 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

Well, Persian is a way to scare out Azumarill. But it's still Persian, only now with 115 Defense instead of 115 Speed. It doesn't see much use as is.

Skipping the Hitmons because they all hugely raise their Special Attack at the cost of something useful (Attack, in Hitmonlee's case, hooray), how about Ludicolo?

252+ Atk Ludicolo Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 49-58 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

That's not great, but Ludicolo is doubly resistant to Waterfall and Aqua Jet, and is actually a little Physically oriented in this meta -and noticeably better, trading down 100 Special Defense to up its base 70 Attack, Defense, and Speed! Unfortunately, even if I generously assume Ludicolo has maxed HP EVs, this crops up

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 403-475 (110.7 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

to ruin this whole thing. You'll potentially speed-tie Azumarill (Or if it's running maxed-maxed Attack like in all of my calcs, you can be Speed-natured to reliably outspeed!), in which case you can do

252 Atk Ludicolo Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 264-312 (109.5 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this to Azumarill, skipping this whole Fake Out crap. So that's cool.

Delcatty gets STAB Fake Out but it trades away Speed and HP for Special Attack and Special Defense, so ignoring it, while, uh, Mega Sableye can, er

252+ Atk Sableye Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 44-52 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

do that so that's sort of neat, I guess, but the thing is, Sableye and especially Mega Sableye aren't that tough so you get...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 304-358 (104.4 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... this as your retaliation if you stay in. (How did you switch in anyway?)

I calced Purugly too, but it's ugly. Its Fake Out removes more than a quarter of Azumarill's health, but Aqua Jet is the only thing that isn't a OHKO in turn, and Purugly is just sacrificing Speed to get good Special Defense -which might make it a neat wall in the meta, but isn't helping against Azumarill. Liepard is, surprise, even worse off against Azumarill (Though better off as a Stat Switch Pokemon -it trades away Speed for Defense and Special Defense) and has a weaker Fake Out since no STAB, while Mienshao is sort of irrelevant by virtue of being a fast wall with crap Attack and OK Special Attack (Azumarill of course explodes it with Play Rough, but even with maxed HP investment Waterfall is still also a potential OHKO), while Meowstic is sort of interesting in Stat Switch (bad Speed, boosted Attack, still a Prankster) it's also easily slaughtered by Azumarill and has a weak Fake Out...

... interestingly enough, Blastoise will outspeed, but it can't take Play Rough without significant investment -saying that it's Mega Blastoise makes things a little easier (Mega Blastoise and Blastoise are both swapping out a Special stat for Speed, so they keep their solid defenses) but you're not swapping in Mega Blastoise unless it's already Mega Evolved. I'm not even going to calc its Fake Out, even considering that Mega Blastoise has worse Special Attack than Attack. (Among other points, Mega Launcher absolutely makes up for it anyway, so in effect Stat Switch Mega Blastoise has realistically traded away some raw firepower for Speed)

Dewgong is actually sort of good in this, but not good enough to switch into Azumarill, and certainly not with a Fake Out strong enough to do major damage. Mr. Mime... really shouldn't be using Fake Out, and even with trading Special Defense for HP it's still prone to being OHKOed by Azumarill... I already calced Raichu and Pikachu earlier, and neither of them did enough damage with Extreme Speed for Fake Out+Extreme Speed to be a clean kill and they can't switch in on it anyway.... Ambipom... actually, it's kind of cool.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 142-168 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bam!

But it can't switch in on Azumarill and it sacrificed Speed for Special Attack, so it's probably not going to be broadly viable in Stat Switch, hilariously powerful Fake Out or no.

I wanna calc Weavile, except it trades Speed for Special Attack, so the thought is depressing and the exercise futile. Even with Delibird sacrificing Speed to raise all of HP, Defense, and Special Defense, it's still a bad joke. Jynx is basically just bad -it trades Special Attack for Defense, which means it has some potential as a wall I guess but as an answer to Azumaril? Knock Off is a clean OHKO. Regular Medicham... is actually sort of cool, able to remove around 60-80% of Azumarill's health between a Fake Out and a Bullet Punch, and it will even survive an Aqua Jet so Azumarill basically has to either switch somewhere in there or resign itself to taking the damage and exploding you with Play Rough. Mega Medicham is just 10 points to Defense and Special Defense in Stat Switch -it's a Mega Evolution I'd skip. (Well, actually, it also gets 100 Special Attack, but that's difficult to argue for over 80 Pure Power Attack)

Spinda is still crap, skipping. Kecleon will actually outspeed, but nobody cares because it can't switch in and it only has 90 Attack. ("Only", he says) Infernape is interesting in Stat Switch (Dumps Speed for Defense and Special Defense), but nothing relevant to Azumarill-countering. Lopunny... is cool, but Mega Lopunny is all about the Special Attack and Lopunny's Attack isn't that great and even though it gts HP upped and Speed downed for Stat Switch it's still just kinda crappy, certainly not switching in on Azumarill.

... aaaand the remaining Fake Out Pokemon either kind of suck (Or at least suck at using Fake Out: Kangaskhan/Mega Kangaskhan) or are Mew, who can't switch in on Azumarill.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 418-492 (103.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Seriously, look at that.

tl;dr version: I'm leaning more heavily in the banhammer direction because Azumarill really is kind of stupid even if you're not stall.

 

[Mr155551]

i agree for an azu ban because if you see the calcs nothing takes a hit from him he's basically mega kang

 

[Throbulator36]

i agree for an azu ban because if you see the calcs nothing takes a hit from him he's basically mega kang

but better.

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

but better.

I have to disagree with this. Yes, Huge Power basically gives him more damage than the Choice Band-like boost that Parental Bond gives, but Parental Bond breaks through Sturdy AND Focus Sash, which is REALLY overpowered. Huge Power only gives one hit. Also if you disagree with this logic, here is something to catch your mind: ShadeFang. Yes, Mega Mom doesn't get that combo. But it is still something to think about. Not to mention that some people don't realize that it doesn't get either, which leads to Intimidation and overall making it easier to play mind games on your opponent. Can Huge Power do that? Not Really.

I am more concerned about the fact that PS is down. Why did that login server thing have to happen???

 

[Throbulator36]

I have to disagree with this. Yes, Huge Power basically gives him more damage than the Choice Band-like boost that Parental Bond gives, but Parental Bond breaks through Sturdy AND Focus Sash, which is REALLY overpowered. Huge Power only gives one hit. Also if you disagree with this logic, here is something to catch your mind: ShadeFang. Yes, Mega Mom doesn't get that combo. But it is still something to think about. Not to mention that some people don't realize that it doesn't get either, which leads to Intimidation and overall making it easier to play mind games on your opponent. Can Huge Power do that? Not Really.

I am more concerned about the fact that PS is down. Why did that login server thing have to happen???

I don't disagree with your logic but that still doesn't defeat the fact that you can still run a mega if you run azu. so azumarill is megakhan but better(typing) but better(damage) but better(megaslot) but better(better priority) but better(can still hold an item) but worse(sturdy/etc.)

also kanga does get seismic toss

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

I don't disagree with your logic but that still doesn't defeat the fact that you can still run a mega if you run azu. so azumarill is megakhan but better(typing) but better(damage) but better(megaslot) but better(better priority) but better(can still hold an item) but worse(sturdy/etc.)

also kanga does get seismic toss

I never said that Mega Mom doesn't have Seismic Toss. I was trying to refer to Night Shade, but, well, Seismic Toss is just as effective until you encounter a ghost type. This doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have Super Fang.

It does have better typing. It does have better priority. It can hold an item. It can be run without a mega stone, but honestly, there aren't many viable Mega Evolutions in Stat Switch. Maybe Mega Venusaur, but with less Defense it isn't as good, so that isn't that big of an advantage. It does have a bit more of a punch in its hits. I never tried to dispute that.

Another thing I never touched on was that Mega Mom, if ever unbanned for Stat Switch, might be a nice Pokemon, despite losing its massive Physical offense. It does gain a TON of special offense, and it has BoltBeam iirc, so that is an incredible amount of things it can stop.

 

[Ghoul King]

Re: bad Megas

Mega Absol? An odd tank with Magic Bounce. Actually not bad.

Mega Aerodactyl? Not exactly a lot of synergy between high Special Attack and Tough Claws, and it sacrifices Speed, but it's actually got a not-half-bad Special movepool -and everything is slow when compared against some of the Stat Switch nightmares.

Mega Aggron, fastest thing in the game.

Mega Banette, once the code is working properly, ends up very fast and with great Defense.

Mega Blaziken ends up with 160 Defense and Special Defense and a perfectly workable 130 Special Attack. No you won't be using Close Combat, but who cares?

Mega Gardevoir ends up fairly durable and can still do a passable Physical offense -including that Pixilate means it doesn't miss Play Rough.

Mega Garchomp ends up blazingly fast and 120 Special Attack is nothing to scoff at.

Mega Gyarados mostly misses Dragon Dance -otherwise it taps Gyrados' always-excellent Special movepool with a shrug.

yeah ok mega heracross is garbage

Mega Houndoom is really really good. (As soon as the code is fixed) 140 Attack, Defense, and Special Defense is very good -though obviously it's less good in the sun, since Solar Power is non-synergistic with its statline.

I've already covered how Mega Mewtwo X is a monster.

People seem rather fond of Mega Scizor, though I admit I don't entirely see the appeal -unpredictable Hidden Power abuse is the main nifty thing about it I can see...

Mega Tyranitar is lightning fast and Special Tyranitar is already a thing.

Mega Alakazam... Alakazam has a pretty good Physical movepool, actually. Mega Alakazam is more likely to be bad because it's already bad than because Stat Switch.

And skipping over most of the ORAS Megas straight to the point: Mega Diancie, Goddess of Stat Switch.

Yeah there's a number of Megas that aren't wonderful (Mega Medicham is probably not worth taking), but it's not a small list of viable ones. It's a weird list.

I was trying to refer to Night Shade, but, well, Seismic Toss is just as effective until you encounter a ghost type.

You do realize Night Shade is 100% useless against Normal types, right?

Re: Azumarill is Mega Kangaskhan but better

Mega Kangaskhan has a better intersection of wonderful things going on with it, but the main reason it has the potential to demolish everything is the intersection of Parental Bond and Power Up Punch. Azumarill meanwhile is out of the box monstrous, and can feel free to switch out on things.

It's also worth noting that before the Choice Band, Azumarill has more Attack in Stat Switch than Mega Kangaskhan effectively has in Standard.

100 Base+IVs+EVs+5x2 is more than 125 Base+IVs+EVs+5x1.5

The fact that Azumarill can additionally stack on useful items just makes it all the more powerful because it's flexible -it can be Banded, or it can unexpectedly outspeed via Scarf, or it can survive through a hit with Focus Sash, or run King's Rock for lolrandom flinches on its Aqua Jet, or if it thinks it can squeeze in a Belly Drum it can do that and just cleanly OHKO the entire world with Aqua Jet and only Sashes, Sturdy, Fake Out, or Extreme Speed can save you. (Well actually some Ubers can tank it -Palkia is 4HKOed by it with zero defensive investment- and Mega Venusaur and Tentacruel are only 2HKOed by Aqua Jet. But overall, as much as it might be a gamble, Belly Drum Aqua Jet can kill the world)

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

Re: bad Megas

Mega Absol? An odd tank with Magic Bounce. Actually not bad.

Mega Aerodactyl? Not exactly a lot of synergy between high Special Attack and Tough Claws, and it sacrifices Speed, but it's actually got a not-half-bad Special movepool -and everything is slow when compared against some of the Stat Switch nightmares.

Mega Aggron, fastest thing in the game.

Mega Banette, once the code is working properly, ends up very fast and with great Defense.

Mega Blaziken ends up with 160 Defense and Special Defense and a perfectly workable 130 Special Attack. No you won't be using Close Combat, but who cares?

Mega Gardevoir ends up fairly durable and can still do a passable Physical offense -including that Pixilate means it doesn't miss Play Rough.

Mega Garchomp ends up blazingly fast and 120 Special Attack is nothing to scoff at.

Mega Gyarados mostly misses Dragon Dance -otherwise it taps Gyrados' always-excellent Special movepool with a shrug.

yeah ok mega heracross is garbage

Mega Houndoom is really really good. (As soon as the code is fixed) 140 Attack, Defense, and Special Defense is very good -though obviously it's less good in the sun, since Solar Power is non-synergistic with its statline.

I've already covered how Mega Mewtwo X is a monster.

People seem rather fond of Mega Scizor, though I admit I don't entirely see the appeal -unpredictable Hidden Power abuse is the main nifty thing about it I can see...

Mega Tyranitar is lightning fast and Special Tyranitar is already a thing.

Mega Alakazam... Alakazam has a pretty good Physical movepool, actually. Mega Alakazam is more likely to be bad because it's already bad than because Stat Switch.

And skipping over most of the ORAS Megas straight to the point: Mega Diancie, Goddess of Stat Switch.

Yeah there's a number of Megas that aren't wonderful (Mega Medicham is probably not worth taking), but it's not a small list of viable ones. It's a weird list.



You do realize Night Shade is 100% useless against Normal types, right?

Re: Azumarill is Mega Kangaskhan but better

Mega Kangaskhan has a better intersection of wonderful things going on with it, but the main reason it has the potential to demolish everything is the intersection of Parental Bond and Power Up Punch. Azumarill meanwhile is out of the box monstrous, and can feel free to switch out on things.

It's also worth noting that before the Choice Band, Azumarill has more Attack in Stat Switch than Mega Kangaskhan effectively has in Standard.

100 Base+IVs+EVs+5x2 is more than 125 Base+IVs+EVs+5x1.5

The fact that Azumarill can additionally stack on useful items just makes it all the more powerful because it's flexible -it can be Banded, or it can unexpectedly outspeed via Scarf, or it can survive through a hit with Focus Sash, or run King's Rock for lolrandom flinches on its Aqua Jet, or if it thinks it can squeeze in a Belly Drum it can do that and just cleanly OHKO the entire world with Aqua Jet and only Sashes, Sturdy, Fake Out, or Extreme Speed can save you. (Well actually some Ubers can tank it -Palkia is 4HKOed by it with zero defensive investment- and Mega Venusaur and Tentacruel are only 2HKOed by Aqua Jet. But overall, as much as it might be a gamble, Belly Drum Aqua Jet can kill the world)

On the discussion of Megas being bad, it is more in the lines of forgetting one word and the entire statement is easy to misinterpret. I meant to say that there are not that many useful Megas. Honestly, unlike standard, it is quite possible to build a team without a mega evolution and never lose with it.

On the comment on Seismic Toss vs Night Shade, Super Fang hits normal types, and honestly, normal types aren't even that common. With Azumarill gone, they might be a bit more common, but Pikablue is still around, so.....Also since Super Fang can't hit Ghost Types it us good to have a fallback plan i.e. Night Shade. Without things like ghost/dark coverage you are sitting duck against ghost types with ShadeFang.

Yeah, Pikablue is better than Mega Mom, but I would like to mention that Kangaskhan can break subs AND Sturdy, which can be quite common just to stop Pikablue. Also iirc Special walls are fairly uncommon in a meta where physical attackers are king, so you might not ever see it dropping. If it did it would have some pretty stiff competition with Regirock on offense. On stall I think it might be used as a Charge Beam attacker IF it can learn it. But yeah Mega Mom is probably not going to be unbanned. It might not, but also I think it can have Vacuum Wave. Again, I am probably wrong, but iirc it can. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

[FlameUser64]

On the discussion of Megas being bad, it is more in the lines of forgetting one word and the entire statement is easy to misinterpret. I meant to say that there are not that many useful Megas. Honestly, unlike standard, it is quite possible to build a team without a mega evolution and never lose with it.

On the comment on Seismic Toss vs Night Shade, Super Fang hits normal types, and honestly, normal types aren't even that common. With Azumarill gone, they might be a bit more common, but Pikablue is still around, so.....Also since Super Fang can't hit Ghost Types it us good to have a fallback plan i.e. Night Shade. Without things like ghost/dark coverage you are sitting duck against ghost types with ShadeFang.

Yeah, Pikablue is better than Mega Mom, but I would like to mention that Kangaskhan can break subs AND Sturdy, which can be quite common just to stop Pikablue. Also iirc Special walls are fairly uncommon in a meta where physical attackers are king, so you might not ever see it dropping. If it did it would have some pretty stiff competition with Regirock on offense. On stall I think it might be used as a Charge Beam attacker IF it can learn it. But yeah Mega Mom is probably not going to be unbanned. It might not, but also I think it can have Vacuum Wave. Again, I am probably wrong, but iirc it can. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

No Vacuum Wave for Mega Kangaskhan, sorry. On the other hand, there's Trump Card. Might that be useful simply for being a STAB Special move that isn't Round or Uproar? Also no Charge Beam for Mega Kangaskhan either, unfortunately. Uproar does mean it breaks through a Baton Passed Sub to also break through Sturdy simultaneously, so there's that too.

Anyway, as the coding stands right now, Mega Kangaskhan should be completely terrible. Reason why:
Stat Switch Kangaskhan: 40/95/80/105/80/90
Stat Switch Mega Kangaskhan with the current coding problem: 40/40/100/60/100/100
Attack tries to switch with HP but it can't, so both end up 40.

Also, Re: Mega Gardevoir, Pixilate Return is not going to make up for 85 base Attack, especially since Gardevoir completely lacks a physical boosting move. Mega Gardevoir is unfortunately doomed to be inferior to non-Mega Gardevoir.

 

[Ghoul King]

Stat Switch Kangaskhan: 40/95/80/105/80/90

OK now I really wanna unban Mega Kangaskhan because I hadn't even noticed it has 40 base HP. That's much less threatening.

Also, Re: Mega Gardevoir, Pixilate Return is not going to make up for 85 base Attack, especially since Gardevoir completely lacks a physical boosting move. Mega Gardevoir is unfortunately doomed to be inferior to non-Mega Gardevoir.

85 isn't completely awful, and Return is effectively 132 BP after Pixilate so it's actually comparable/better than a lot of Pokemon using an Earthquake off of 100 Attack.

Yeah, Pikablue is better than Mega Mom, but I would like to mention that Kangaskhan can break subs AND Sturdy, which can be quite common just to stop Pikablue.

A big part of the problem with Azumarill is that it can't really be switched on, so Substitutes are irrelevant to the point. Sturdy and Focus Sash are basically it.

Also Marill is Pikablue, not Azumarill.

 

[FlameUser64]

OK now I really wanna unban Mega Kangaskhan because I hadn't even noticed it has 40 base HP. That's much less threatening.



85 isn't completely awful, and Return is effectively 132 BP after Pixilate so it's actually comparable/better than a lot of Pokemon using an Earthquake off of 100 Attack.

Pokémon using Earthquake off of base 100 Attack do so with Life Orbs or Choice Bands. Mega Gardevoir has access to neither due to having to hold a Mega Stone. Plus, that leaves her to mono-attack with Return and otherwise be used strictly as a utility mon, as Return is the only move that has any decent power off of 85 base Attack.

 

[Ghoul King]

85 Attack really isn't that bad, and Gardevoir still has utility moves like Wish (Which is a lot more useful with monstrous Defense and solid Special Defense than it is with crap Defense) and Will O Wisp (So Physical Attackers have to hit against 165 Defense while Burned), and it's not actually a given that everything using Earthquake is using a Life Orb or a Band -and even if it is, a lot of Earthquake users lack STAB, and Fairy is impossible to be immune to barring Wonder Guard vs tons of things being natively immune to Ground and stuff like Magnet Rise and Air Balloons existing. No Mega Gardevoir isn't going to output the kind of amazing offensive pressure it outputs in Standard, but it's got utility, and in fact it has a lot of support moves it normally doesn't use because its Defense is so bad and its HP is not much better.

Regular Gardevoir meanwhile has no Fairy STAB at all if you're looking at Physical, so its overall damage output is actually down in spite of having close to 50% more Attack than Mega Gardevoir.

And anyway Trace-abuse prior to Mega Evolution can give Mega Gardevoir some flexibility.

 

[FlameUser64]

85 Attack really isn't that bad, and Gardevoir still has utility moves like Wish (Which is a lot more useful with monstrous Defense and solid Special Defense than it is with crap Defense) and Will O Wisp (So Physical Attackers have to hit against 165 Defense while Burned), and it's not actually a given that everything using Earthquake is using a Life Orb or a Band -and even if it is, a lot of Earthquake users lack STAB, and Fairy is impossible to be immune to barring Wonder Guard vs tons of things being natively immune to Ground and stuff like Magnet Rise and Air Balloons existing. No Mega Gardevoir isn't going to output the kind of amazing offensive pressure it outputs in Standard, but it's got utility, and in fact it has a lot of support moves it normally doesn't use because its Defense is so bad and its HP is not much better.

Regular Gardevoir meanwhile has no Fairy STAB at all if you're looking at Physical, so its overall damage output is actually down in spite of having close to 50% more Attack than Mega Gardevoir.

And anyway Trace-abuse prior to Mega Evolution can give Mega Gardevoir some flexibility.

Non-Mega Gardevoir gets a bunch of nice coverage and can use a Choice Band or Life Orb. And she can abuse Trace too.

Mega Gardevoir has an advantage over Latias in lacking a weakness to Regice's STAB, and can in fact tank Ice Punches very nicely, but Regice still wins vs. a full physically-defensive Mega Gardevoir just by running Iron Head. In general, far as "physical attackers with utility moves" go, Latias is superior (and can pass bigger Wishes, too), but Mega Gardevoir might win if what you're really looking for is "utility mons with physical attacks". If only Gardevoir got Power-up Punch.

 

[Throbulator36]

A way to avoid the coding problem is to exempt HP fro swapping on both base forms and megas.

 

[Ghoul King]

That throws all kinds of things out of whack and would require a major overhaul of our ideas of what Stat Switch is like.

Also it makes Azumarill ultra-broken.

Stat Switch Speed tiers

I'm focusing on things that break 100, since the Mew-alikes are all unchanged and indeed a lot of Pokemon in the vicinity of 100 are still the same, and nobody cares about the million-and-one things in the bottom.

Shuckle, Mega Aggron, Mega Steelix: 230 Speed.

Regirock, Regice, Steelix,: 200 Speed.

Aggron, Mega Slowbro, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon: 180 Speed.

Mega Garchomp: 170 Speed.

Bastiodon: 168 Speed.

Mega Ampharos, Mega Banette: 165 Speed.

Mega Tyranitar: 164 Speed.

Snorlax, Mega Diancie: 160 Speed.

Ho-oh: 154 Speed.

Carbink, Diancie, Doublade, Probopass, Registeel, Dialga, Giratina-Altered, Giratina-Origin, Reshiram, Zekrom, Mega Swampert, Kyogre, Groudon: 150 Speed.

Cofagrigus, Mega Metagross, Mega Camerupt: 145 Speed.

Forretress, Lairon, Rhyperior, Wigglytuff, Conkeldurr, Darmanitan-Zen: 140 Speed.

Nosepass, Dusknoir, Metagross, Mega Blastoise: 135 Speed.

Tyranitar, Dragonite: 134 Speed.

Mega Abomasnow: 132 Speed.

Heatran, Sylveon, Golem, Machamp, Ursaring, Lapras, Magnezone: 130 Speed.

Mega Audino: 126 Speed.

Reuniclus, Dusion, Beeheeyem, Armaldo, Crustle, Mega Mawile (note that it holds onto its Attack!), Tangrowth, Exeggutor, Omastar, Articuno, Mega Sableye: 125 Speed.

Golurk, Pangoro: 124 Speed.

Dragalge, Aurorus, Emboar, Mega Venusaur: 123 Speed.

Super-size Gourgeist, Large-size Gourgeist, Chesnaught: 122 Speed.

Magcargo, Kecleon, Granbull, Druddigon, Donphan, Crawdaunt, Clawitzer, Wheezing, Luxray: 120 Speed.

Hippowdon: 118 Speed.

Bronzong: 116 Speed.

Eelektross, Sudowoodo, Ampharos, Cacturne: 115 Speed.

Gorebyss: 114 Speed.

Gastrodon, Empoleon: 111 Speed.

Slowbro, Slowking, Marowak, Vileplume, Lickilicky, Beartic, Bouffalant, Trevenant, Swampert, Walrein, Mega Altaria: 110 Speed.

Torterra: 109 Speed.

Spiritomb, Samurott: 108 Speed.

Cradily: 107 Speed.

Maractus: 106 Speed.

Sunflora, Wormadam (all three Forms), Camerupt, Gurdurr, Octillery, Muk, Huntail, Porygon2, Jellicent, Heatmor, Seismitoad, Blastoise, Feraligatr, Mesprit: 105 Speed.

Audino: 103 Speed.

Vespiquen: 102 Speed.

Aromatisse: 101 Speed.

Omanyte, Azumarill, Machoke, Carnivine, Piloswine, Ludicolo, Metang, Politoed, Venusaur, Meganium: 100 Speed.

Pokemon that retain their 100+ Speed in Stat Switch.

Deoxys Attack Forme, Mega Alakazam: 150 Speed.

Mega Beedrill: 145 Speed.

Mega Mewtwo Y: 140 Speed.

Mega Mewtwo X, Mewtwo, Mega Gengar: 130 Speed.

Darkrai: 125 Speed.

Mega Pidgeot: 121 Speed.

Arceus, Alakazam, Mega Salamence: 120 Speed.

Azelf, Mega Absol, Mega Houndoom, Mega Rayquaza: 115 Speed.

Mega Lucario: 112 Speed.

Thundurus-Incarnate, Tornadus-Incarnate: 111 Speed.

Archeops, Latios, Latias, Lugia, Espeon, Gengar, Mega Gallade: 110 Speed.

Durant: 109 Speed.

Keldeo, Terrakion, Virizion, Cobalion: 108 Speed.

Pyroar: 106 Speed.

Mienshao, Cryogonal, Zoroark, Mega Pinsir, Scyther, Kadabra, Mega Sharpedo: 105 Speed.

Delphox: 104 Speed.

Garchomp: 102 Speed.

Landorus-Incarnate, Thundurus-Therian: 101 Speed.

Volcarona, Victini, Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, Shaymin-Land, Regigigas, Palkia, Staraptor, Salamence, Slaking, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Blaziken, Entei, Miltank, Typhlosion, Zapdos, Mega Kangaskhan, Dodrio, Tentacruel, all variants on Charizard, Mega Glalie: 100 Speed.

---

Worth noting is that 100, 105, 110, and oddly enough, 125 are fairly crowded Speed tiers. Also worth noting is there isn't an actual Speed king in this meta -unless you take into account that Shuckle is the only Pokemon in its tier that isn't a Mega and therefore gets it on the first turn.

Also worth noting is that Porygon2 is actually faster than Porygon-Z in this meta -and in fact you're probably better off using Porygon2 in general, unless you think Adaptability is so good, because Eviolite Porygon2 laughs in the face of Porygon-Z having shifted its Special Attack to Defense because Porygon2 gives up no defenses (Its Special Attack is its highest stat just like Porygon-Z) while having identical Attack and only 10 less Special Attack, so unless you're valuing Adaptability heavily... just run Porygon2 with Physical attacks and skip Porygon-Z.