"Great power" Skymin's Seed Flare is as powerful on the special side as Zamazenta's Close Combat is on the physical side. Both have 120 in their respective offense, Skymin even has less speed than Zamazenta, nowhere near as bulky. Seed Flare also has a miss chance, CC does not.
I lied because turd refuses to see reason. Covert Cloak would not come back if Garg were "common" (tiered as OU btw) because we learned how to play against garg and how to abuse its passive presence with special attackers.
Subseed. Are you insane?
If Substitute + Leech Seed Skymin dominates the meta, I will give you my account password and you can use my account to post in this thread that you are the greatest man alive.
Notably: the only sap sipper that is remotely usable in OU is Hisuian-Goodra, who is extremely exploitable because of its passivity and weak damage or reliance on curse to do things. I guess you could do sap sipper trapper azumarill but like, why would you do that, that still probably doesn't beat skymin.
Which is a top mon that doesn't have a chance to flinch or drop your sp.defense by 2 stages. Plus, 127 speed is still blazing fast. Again, forcing an item onto a lot of mons is signs of something being broken. Garg was potentially broken and was realised to be much more managable with sub or, if you want to believe this, pushed it down in power from new additions. Plus, skymin can switch into tusk on both stabs so it can come in on one of the best mons in the tier.
I'm going to drop it because we're just going in circles here. Quick recap:
Again, I will stop talking about after this but,
Did Covert Cloak exist at the time of this vote? Or is Covert Cloak a new item that was added with gen 9?
We just went through a page and a half of me explaining to you that Garganacl inspired Covert Cloak on all defensive teams for a solid 4 months and did not get banned. There is precedent here. And the precedent is that inspiring people to use Covert Cloak does not make you banworthy.
sub seed air slash earth power hits everything in the meta for at minimum 6% (leech takes 12% lefties heals 6%). If literally everything runs covert cloak (which is fucking insane btw that's indicitive of a massive problem) that's 12% minimum on something with base 127 speed and a fantastic offensive typing with a decent defensive profile. Zamazenta has a pretty good offensive typing, is strong and fast, but notably, loses to scarfed special attackers, BE Special Attackers, and loses to most ghost types if they click CC while choiced. Also just gets FUCKED UP by burn. You are either the single best angler on this thread in which case you deserve a badge or you are so dumb it hurts. If you can't see that forcing everything that isn't scarf or BE to run covert cloak is a problem, then there's no saving you.
This isn't the own you think it is. Garganacl made defensive teams use Covert Cloak for 4 months because it was new and people didn't know how to deal with it yet. Notably, defensive teams, rare as they are, don't run covert cloak much anymore. I would argue that Garg WAS banworthy for for a bit in early SV! But it didn't get banned and then when hisuian forms started dropping it became entirely reasonable, even if salt cure is still one of the most obscene moves of all time.
And it was considered banworthy the time. You said it yourself that garg fell off due to power creep, which although I don't agree with the fact that it was due to power creep. So again, your only example was considered banworthy, what other mons that you need cloak for are OU legal? None, because garg has fallen off and skymin is powerful without rng, it's something on top that makes it broken.
no. you no longer get the privilege of "dropping it". you've already ignored multiple requests to drop the topic, including two by mods, and kept digging your heels in against the veritable mountain of evidence lobbied against your argument. i'm going to assume you're not a liar and you're against skymin being in the tier like you said you were, so you've been playing devil's advocate this whole time, which means you are in fact the one who cares more about arguing than making a point. you gave up your right to bow out gracefully about three pages ago, and you gave up your right to ever live this down when you quoted my post with the reasoning cut out and pretended i didn't provide any. apologies for sounding harsh but my tolerance for this kind of nonsense has long since run out
Imagine being a mon so uncompetitive that nobody wants it in the tier.
atp finch needs to start SV OU Metagame Discussion V5 because there's no salvaging this thread anymore.
or we could create a separate thread for the "ubers in ou" topic specifically, like the tera discussion thread. that way the ubers apologists don't feel like they're being silenced while the rest of us can ignore them
even at its peak cloak wasn’t nearly that common. You really should just stop at this point because it’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about.
As much as I dislike using choice scarf, I can't deny its the better pick for meow. It needs it to outspeed Darkrai, Deoxsys-S, Weavile and Boulder once booster is burnt, while also maintaining the speed advantage against other scarfers/booster mons/Ddanceers like Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, Some Cinderace and Iron moth variants, etc
i haven't run meowscarada yet because i've been using weavile for that role instead, but if i did, i'd probably go for band. sure, scarf lets it outspeed a lot of crucial things, but i just don't think its power without band is worth running it over those very same things. but overall i'd rather run weavile and not have to worry about using band or scarf, and just carry something else in the back for bulky waters and stuff
