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Other The Next Best Thing - ORAS OU Edition (Discussing Gardevoir sets) Check Post #920
- Thread starter firehusky
- Start date
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GnralLao's Regenerator Future Sight Reuniclus
Jaguar360's Bulky Pivot Reuniclus
Jaguar360's Bulky Pivot Reuniclus
OverlordDerp's Double Dance Reuniclus
Jaguar360's Bulky Pivot Reuniclus
Bulky Pivot
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
lol thanks :]
Be sure to congratulate jaguar360 for winning this round!
Our next test subject is...
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SubSD + Salac Berry
Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
I think SD Garchomp is underestimated. Its ability to break fat core without Unaware Clefable is nice. Because of the speed creep, Garchomp is rarely seen with SD and without Stealth Rock. Furthermore, with the recent rise of TankChomp, a lot of people doesn't expect SD Garchomp. This set solves these problems. Substitute shields it from statues, which is very cool. 12 HP means that Garchomp needs 3 Substitute to activate Salac Berry. Now, Garchomp can beat Scarf Lando in the switch, with this scenario :
Landorus-T switches and intimidate Chomp, Chomp use Sub.
Landorus-T uses Earthquake, breaking the Sub and Chomp is at +1
Landorus-T uses Earthquake, activating the Salac Berry, and Chomp is at +3
Chomp OHKO even with Dragon Claw.
Note : If the speed boost is not needed or your opponent have priority, don't use 3 times Substitute.
Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
I think SD Garchomp is underestimated. Its ability to break fat core without Unaware Clefable is nice. Because of the speed creep, Garchomp is rarely seen with SD and without Stealth Rock. Furthermore, with the recent rise of TankChomp, a lot of people doesn't expect SD Garchomp. This set solves these problems. Substitute shields it from statues, which is very cool. 12 HP means that Garchomp needs 3 Substitute to activate Salac Berry. Now, Garchomp can beat Scarf Lando in the switch, with this scenario :
Landorus-T switches and intimidate Chomp, Chomp use Sub.
Landorus-T uses Earthquake, breaking the Sub and Chomp is at +1
Landorus-T uses Earthquake, activating the Salac Berry, and Chomp is at +3
Chomp OHKO even with Dragon Claw.
Note : If the speed boost is not needed or your opponent have priority, don't use 3 times Substitute.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Got ninja'd by SubSalac which is obviously the best underrated set but whatever posting this cool set too
Resttalk Garchomp
Garchomp-Mega (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
80 Speed is for Adamant Bisharp and Breloom, but Jolly is way more common so just 4 speed EVs to outspeed Rotom-W / Lando-T is also an option to be considered.
Resttalk Garchomp is a very good defensive pivot and because of its nice speed tier as a defensive pokemon a nice sleep phazer. Mega Garchomps main use is to stop momentum from voltturn teams, being a knock off absorber and a sleep absorber. It's also a good counter to SD Bisharp and Banded Victini: some of the biggest threats to semi-stall teams. Similar to this, you can also use this set on regular Garchomp with the infamous Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet combination. It has worse bulk and it can't get Stealth Rocks up (which is a big con over regular tankchomp) but it is better at getting chip damage on stuff like Gyro Ball Ferrothorn and Mega Lopunny. Sleep Talk can also be replaced by a filler like rocks, toxic or fire blast, but the main niche of my mentioned set is Resttalk.
Resttalk Garchomp
Garchomp-Mega (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
80 Speed is for Adamant Bisharp and Breloom, but Jolly is way more common so just 4 speed EVs to outspeed Rotom-W / Lando-T is also an option to be considered.
Resttalk Garchomp is a very good defensive pivot and because of its nice speed tier as a defensive pokemon a nice sleep phazer. Mega Garchomps main use is to stop momentum from voltturn teams, being a knock off absorber and a sleep absorber. It's also a good counter to SD Bisharp and Banded Victini: some of the biggest threats to semi-stall teams. Similar to this, you can also use this set on regular Garchomp with the infamous Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet combination. It has worse bulk and it can't get Stealth Rocks up (which is a big con over regular tankchomp) but it is better at getting chip damage on stuff like Gyro Ball Ferrothorn and Mega Lopunny. Sleep Talk can also be replaced by a filler like rocks, toxic or fire blast, but the main niche of my mentioned set is Resttalk.
Dr Ciel
Banned deucer.
Garchomp @ Choice Band
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Choice Banded Garchomp is an absolute monster. Dragon + Ground is only resisted by Skarmory in OU. Being able to 2HKO even the sturdiest walls is a feat in itself. Outrage is insanely powerful when boosted by CB + STAB, while EQ + Stone Edge forms the infamous EdgeQuake combo. Here are the damage calculations to prove its power.
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 205-243 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 165-195 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 205-243 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 165-195 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Some days, I look at myself in the mirror and wonder if I'm honest-to-god clinically insane.
This is one of those days.
Offensive Stallbreaker Garchomp
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive / Jolly Nature
- Whirlpool
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Swords Dance
- Toxic
Turns out, when you scroll down to the very bottom of Garchomp's movepool in Showdown, you see a sight not meant for human eyes. This is similar to Magma Storm Heatran in that it traps a lot of switch-ins, but this set is more geared to dispatching offensive and balanced threats over defensive threats due to its lack of Taunt. Whirlpool traps a lot of things expecting to check Garchomp, like Steel-types, then allows you to either switch in with impunity, wipe them out, or set up in their faces. Toxic is meant to get some trickle damage on things that can't immediately force you out, like Hippowdon or defensive Lando-T.
Your third move is dependent on what you want to hit. Fire Blast 2HKOes Ferrothorn and M-Scizor, while Stone Edge lets you take care of Flying-types in general, namely Zapdos, Togekiss and SpDef Talonflame. Swords Dance is an interesting option to rack up 2HKOs on things that would otherwise wall you, like a 2HKO on Slowbro after SR. It's especially cool to set up on something like M-Scizor after trapping it with Whirlpool, since between Rough Skin and Whirlpool, there will be a lot of chip damage being dealt.
Rocky Helmet can be used, but this set appreciates the extra recovery against stall, especially if you decide to run a surprise Swords Dance. Similarly, Yache / Lum / Roseli Berry can be used with the EV spread of [252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe Impish] to bluff an offensive SD set, forcing in a defensive 'mon that certainly won't appreciate Whirlpool + Toxic out of nowhere. SD on a defensive set still allows you to at least 2HKO most defensive threats, such as max Def Slowbro after SR and M-Venusaur.
EDIT: Vinc608 , SubSalac is already in the Preliminary Pokedex subforum. Not sure if it's used rarely enough to merit mention here.
This is one of those days.
Offensive Stallbreaker Garchomp
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive / Jolly Nature
- Whirlpool
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Swords Dance
- Toxic
Turns out, when you scroll down to the very bottom of Garchomp's movepool in Showdown, you see a sight not meant for human eyes. This is similar to Magma Storm Heatran in that it traps a lot of switch-ins, but this set is more geared to dispatching offensive and balanced threats over defensive threats due to its lack of Taunt. Whirlpool traps a lot of things expecting to check Garchomp, like Steel-types, then allows you to either switch in with impunity, wipe them out, or set up in their faces. Toxic is meant to get some trickle damage on things that can't immediately force you out, like Hippowdon or defensive Lando-T.
Your third move is dependent on what you want to hit. Fire Blast 2HKOes Ferrothorn and M-Scizor, while Stone Edge lets you take care of Flying-types in general, namely Zapdos, Togekiss and SpDef Talonflame. Swords Dance is an interesting option to rack up 2HKOs on things that would otherwise wall you, like a 2HKO on Slowbro after SR. It's especially cool to set up on something like M-Scizor after trapping it with Whirlpool, since between Rough Skin and Whirlpool, there will be a lot of chip damage being dealt.
Rocky Helmet can be used, but this set appreciates the extra recovery against stall, especially if you decide to run a surprise Swords Dance. Similarly, Yache / Lum / Roseli Berry can be used with the EV spread of [252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe Impish] to bluff an offensive SD set, forcing in a defensive 'mon that certainly won't appreciate Whirlpool + Toxic out of nowhere. SD on a defensive set still allows you to at least 2HKO most defensive threats, such as max Def Slowbro after SR and M-Venusaur.
EDIT: Vinc608 , SubSalac is already in the Preliminary Pokedex subforum. Not sure if it's used rarely enough to merit mention here.
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Finding new sets for chompy is hard cuz there's already so many ;_;
All Out Attacker Garchomp
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Claw / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power [Ice]
All Out Attacker Garchomp focuses on utilizing its coverage to the fullest and attacking anything in its path. Earthquake is obviously the main move use since it's Garchomp's strongest move, but with the amount of Flying types and Levitate users in OU, Garchomp needs Stone Edge and the other coverage moves to mix things up. Fire Blast hits non-Heatran and Empoleon Steel types and most Grass types, though it can't quite break through Mega Venusaur or speically defensive Celebi. Stone Edge hits various Flying types in the tier, notably Zapdos, Talonflame and Thundurus and synergizes very well with Earthquake on the physical side. Dragon Claw is appreciated for its neutral coverage and ability to hit non-Mega Altaria Dragon types hardest. It is the best option against most Levitate Pokemon like Rotom-W and Latios. HP Ice is an option to lure Gliscor and Lando-T, but is not too useful beyond that since it's weak off of Garchomp's uninvested base 80 Special Attack.
Mega Garchomp can also use the set as a more physical version of his current mixed attacker set. MegaChomp benefits from greater bulk, greater power on the Special side, lack of Life Orb recoil and doesn't mind the speed drop too much. However, Life Orb Chomp hits harder with its physical moves, has Rough Skin to deter physical attacks and doesn't use the Mega slot.
All Out Attacker Garchomp
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Claw / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power [Ice]
All Out Attacker Garchomp focuses on utilizing its coverage to the fullest and attacking anything in its path. Earthquake is obviously the main move use since it's Garchomp's strongest move, but with the amount of Flying types and Levitate users in OU, Garchomp needs Stone Edge and the other coverage moves to mix things up. Fire Blast hits non-Heatran and Empoleon Steel types and most Grass types, though it can't quite break through Mega Venusaur or speically defensive Celebi. Stone Edge hits various Flying types in the tier, notably Zapdos, Talonflame and Thundurus and synergizes very well with Earthquake on the physical side. Dragon Claw is appreciated for its neutral coverage and ability to hit non-Mega Altaria Dragon types hardest. It is the best option against most Levitate Pokemon like Rotom-W and Latios. HP Ice is an option to lure Gliscor and Lando-T, but is not too useful beyond that since it's weak off of Garchomp's uninvested base 80 Special Attack.
Mega Garchomp can also use the set as a more physical version of his current mixed attacker set. MegaChomp benefits from greater bulk, greater power on the Special side, lack of Life Orb recoil and doesn't mind the speed drop too much. However, Life Orb Chomp hits harder with its physical moves, has Rough Skin to deter physical attacks and doesn't use the Mega slot.
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Could Mega Garchomp pull off something like this? The better mixed stats are the obvious benefit, and of the things you listed to break, Mega Garchomp doesn't lose any Speed wins he'd have otherwise (Zapdos outpaces Base 70's at best, and Talonflame/Thundurus were outspeeding regardless), bar Gliscor, who you noted was being lured regardless, and he already has max speed. The only notable thing I in particular I notice him losing the speed for are Kyurem-B and some odd Speed tiers like Hydreigon, neither of which like switching into him regardless (Kyu-B hates a move he's going to be carrying even with HP Ice, and I'm not sure how often either of the two run +Speed outside of Scarf).
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 201-237 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 212-251 (62.1 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 93-110 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 87-103 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Mega Garchomp Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 51-61 (14.9 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 48-57 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Bit of a power drop w/out the Life Orb on the Physical side, but about the same on the Special side without the recoil.
Seems like an option that might be worth considering.
He probably could. I was just worried about including it since it's already similar to his all-out attacker set, but that one has much more SpA investment, so it can be okay I guess. I'll slash Garchompite onto the set. Thanks.
Hmm, Chomp sure has a lot of analysis sets, but here's one I feel hasn't been fully explored yet
SD Natural Gift Garchomp
Garchomp @ Watmel Berry / Petaya Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Natural Gift
Watmel gives fire, Petaya gives poison btw
Some of Garchomps comon checks include Skarmory, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Whimiscott (not common but w/e), Chesnaught, Azumarill, Clefable and Defensive M-Altaria. By using Swords Dance alongside either Natural gift Fire or Poison, it can choose its checks and counters and becoms much harder for slower teams to deal with. The reason that fire natural gift has any use over Fire Blast is that it uses Garchomps much more appealing attacks stat, as well as being boosted by the swords dance boost.
Here are some calcs to show what it muscles past:
So as you can see, running natural gift is yet another way in which Garchomp can adapt to the metagame around it and muscle past its common checks, showing its true flexibility as a pokemon.
SD Natural Gift Garchomp
Garchomp @ Watmel Berry / Petaya Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Natural Gift
Watmel gives fire, Petaya gives poison btw
Some of Garchomps comon checks include Skarmory, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Whimiscott (not common but w/e), Chesnaught, Azumarill, Clefable and Defensive M-Altaria. By using Swords Dance alongside either Natural gift Fire or Poison, it can choose its checks and counters and becoms much harder for slower teams to deal with. The reason that fire natural gift has any use over Fire Blast is that it uses Garchomps much more appealing attacks stat, as well as being boosted by the swords dance boost.
Here are some calcs to show what it muscles past:
252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 262-310 (65.3 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Nat Gift Poison + EQ KO's Azumarill
+2 252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 324-382 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even Defensive M-Altaria is OHKO'd by +2 Poison Nat gift
252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Unaware Clef goes down to Nat gift + eq after just 15% prior damage, standard MG Clef is 2HKO'd by nat gift + eq 100% of the time.
+2 252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 272-322 (71.5 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Chesnaught goes down after just a bit of Prior damage
252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 352-416 (108.6 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whimiscott just straight up dies
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Nat Gift Poison + EQ KO's Azumarill
+2 252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 324-382 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even Defensive M-Altaria is OHKO'd by +2 Poison Nat gift
252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Unaware Clef goes down to Nat gift + eq after just 15% prior damage, standard MG Clef is 2HKO'd by nat gift + eq 100% of the time.
+2 252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 272-322 (71.5 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Chesnaught goes down after just a bit of Prior damage
252 Atk Petaya Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 352-416 (108.6 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whimiscott just straight up dies
252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 292-348 (82.9 - 98.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Ferro dies to Nat gift fire+ anything
+2 252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 248-292 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 326-384 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Physically Defensive Skarm dies to +2 nat gift + outrage, while SpD Skarm is OHKO'd at +2
252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 296-352 (86.2 - 102.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Bulky SD Mega Zor has a good chance of being OHKO'd after sr
Ferro dies to Nat gift fire+ anything
+2 252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 248-292 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 326-384 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Physically Defensive Skarm dies to +2 nat gift + outrage, while SpD Skarm is OHKO'd at +2
252 Atk Watmel Berry Garchomp Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 296-352 (86.2 - 102.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Bulky SD Mega Zor has a good chance of being OHKO'd after sr
So as you can see, running natural gift is yet another way in which Garchomp can adapt to the metagame around it and muscle past its common checks, showing its true flexibility as a pokemon.
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