Swords Dance Kecleon
and
65 Def Clefairy
and
65 Def Clefairy
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Project ORAS NU Theorymons
- Thread starter Shadestep
- Start date
- Status
PrinceLucian
Banned deucer.
swords dance kecleon+ EQ klinklang
Sorry for being so late!
Ampharos wins the week with a close vote :)
1. Ampharos + Tail Glow (7 Votes)
2. Klinklang + Earthquake (6 Votes)
3. Clefairy + 65 Base Defense (5 Votes)
3. Kecleon + Swords Dance (5 Votes)
5. Kadabra + Focus Blast (1 Vote)
New slates hype!!
+ Gale Wings
+ Slack Off
+ Roost
+ Magic Bounce
+ Spore & Toxic Spikes
Discuss your thoughts on these changes, their potential impact on the metagame, cool sets you would run, how it would help the mons, what you would use with it, etc etc. get creative!
Discussion will last until Saturday.
Ampharos wins the week with a close vote :)
1. Ampharos + Tail Glow (7 Votes)
2. Klinklang + Earthquake (6 Votes)
3. Clefairy + 65 Base Defense (5 Votes)
3. Kecleon + Swords Dance (5 Votes)
5. Kadabra + Focus Blast (1 Vote)
New slates hype!!
Discuss your thoughts on these changes, their potential impact on the metagame, cool sets you would run, how it would help the mons, what you would use with it, etc etc. get creative!
Discussion will last until Saturday.
Gale Wings Articuno
Well...priority Hurricane is certainly a nice USP, although sadly it still hits when it feels like it outside rain. It gives Articuno a nice niche, although it still can't touch Steel types. I would've gone for Magic Guard personally, but that is still a good idea.
Slack Off Camerupt
Reliable recovery is always nice, but even with Solid Rock Camerupt still isn't that bulky. It's also quite slow, so it probably won't get the chance to use it that much. A nice upgrade, but nothing too ground breaking.
Roost Blaziken
It is a bird...but it's a flightless bird...that makes no sense! Anyway, like Camerupt it's certainly a nice option, but where would it fit it in? Between Protect, Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Hidden Power it just doesn't have the space. It could run a bulky set with Bulk Up, Flare Blitz, Brick Break and Roost I guess.
Magic Bounce Mismagius
Hmm...I'm not sold on this one personally. Magic Bounce doesn't help it beat any of its usual checks - Mega Audino still walls it to kingdom come, Skuntank can still Pursuit trap it even with a burn, and Pyroar can still switch in and wreck it with Fire Blast. TBH I think Levitate's still the better choice anyway. Someone suggested Technician for Mismagius a few pages back, and I think that would've been better - it gives it a slightly stronger STAB with a much better secondary effect in Ominous Wind, while also buffing its Hidden Power.
Spore + Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Now it's a budget Amoongus. Now that that's a bad thing - indeed, Amoongus has been a stall staple ever since it got Regenerator. Spore is a very good upgrade over Sleep Powder as it won't miss, and apart from Ferroseed (and I guess Cradily) no Grass types will want to take a Sludge Bomb. I'm not sure if it will have space to run Toxic Spikes, as it will be hard to fit in between Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Moonlight and Aromatherapy. Nonetheless, a nice upgrade.
Nomination:
Marowak with Sucker Punch. It could learn the move from breeding with Kangaskhan, and it would help remedy its low Speed. However, I don't believe that would make it broken, as it's still very slow and Sucker Punch can be played around.
Also: YAY MY NOMINATION WON!!!
Well...priority Hurricane is certainly a nice USP, although sadly it still hits when it feels like it outside rain. It gives Articuno a nice niche, although it still can't touch Steel types. I would've gone for Magic Guard personally, but that is still a good idea.
Slack Off Camerupt
Reliable recovery is always nice, but even with Solid Rock Camerupt still isn't that bulky. It's also quite slow, so it probably won't get the chance to use it that much. A nice upgrade, but nothing too ground breaking.
Roost Blaziken
It is a bird...but it's a flightless bird...that makes no sense! Anyway, like Camerupt it's certainly a nice option, but where would it fit it in? Between Protect, Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Hidden Power it just doesn't have the space. It could run a bulky set with Bulk Up, Flare Blitz, Brick Break and Roost I guess.
Magic Bounce Mismagius
Hmm...I'm not sold on this one personally. Magic Bounce doesn't help it beat any of its usual checks - Mega Audino still walls it to kingdom come, Skuntank can still Pursuit trap it even with a burn, and Pyroar can still switch in and wreck it with Fire Blast. TBH I think Levitate's still the better choice anyway. Someone suggested Technician for Mismagius a few pages back, and I think that would've been better - it gives it a slightly stronger STAB with a much better secondary effect in Ominous Wind, while also buffing its Hidden Power.
Spore + Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Now it's a budget Amoongus. Now that that's a bad thing - indeed, Amoongus has been a stall staple ever since it got Regenerator. Spore is a very good upgrade over Sleep Powder as it won't miss, and apart from Ferroseed (and I guess Cradily) no Grass types will want to take a Sludge Bomb. I'm not sure if it will have space to run Toxic Spikes, as it will be hard to fit in between Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Moonlight and Aromatherapy. Nonetheless, a nice upgrade.
Nomination:
Marowak with Sucker Punch. It could learn the move from breeding with Kangaskhan, and it would help remedy its low Speed. However, I don't believe that would make it broken, as it's still very slow and Sucker Punch can be played around.
Also: YAY MY NOMINATION WON!!!
Last edited:
I'm only going to post because Shadestep is offering a free like. (Pre-Warning i get really into these kinda threads so probs gonna be long)
Anyway, out of the five given only two personally stand out the most as a beneficial addition that being...
+ Gale Wings
For starters Articuno is already a fairly underused or undervalued pokemon in NU due to the competition given so the addition of Gale Wings allows it to immediately stand out against the likes of Jynx,Aurorus,Abomasnow ect and as everyone knows Gale Wings has been basically the only reason the Fletchling line has had so much success in competitive battling and the same can be said for Articuno with a priority on both its Roost and Hurricane.
The main reasoning i see this as such an amazing addition on Articuno is just due to the sheer amount of bulk this thing has (90/100/125) even if it means becoming mono-ice for a turn it still will live many hits even uninvested as well as hurt scarfers and quicker mons that rely on Articunos Flying-Type to hurt it siginificantly such as Rotom,Manectric ect. As for Hurricane this just turns Articuno into both a potential Wallbreaker and Revenge Killer due to the priority given and allows it to immediately threaten Scarfers,Speed set-up,slower priority and naturally faster pokemon with an incredibly strong stab move with the only downside being it can miss.
While all sounds near broken on paper Articuno still has a poor typing in the long run and can struggle against naturally bulky-pokemon that resist or are neutral to its stabs such as Regirock,MDino and AV Mag being a few examples (Obviously chip can eventually make them a lacking switch) the only disadvantage that is relevant is losing the Pressure ability which is what made Articuno such an effective mon in a lot of cases due to it stalling out a lot of low pp moves like Fire Blast,Hydro Pump
+ Slack Off
With a unique Ground/Fire typing Camerupt has always been a stand out pokemon that hasn't seen a lot of use and this is one of the main reasons as to why with a lack of reliable recovery, already with the addition of Slack Off Camerupt is able to stand out even further from its Rocker competition and would further its placement on the VR and in play.
What makes it's typing so unique for NU is the fact its able to take on the vast amount of Fire,Electric,Grass and Ice types available in the NU meta including threats such as Magmortar,Jynx,Rotom,Pyroar and more and while some rockers can handle some of them individually Camerupt is able to provide such nice role compression and beat them all at once as well as form many interesting balanced/defensive cores with pokemon such as Gastrodon, Archeops, Aggron ect.
Slack Off on its own would vastly increase Camerupts viability allowing it to stand alone against these threats with a SpD spread which would allow this role compression i have spoken so highly off, in terms of the sr competition camel faces (Rhydon,Steelix,Regirock ect) Camerupt is able to further its distance with Lava Plume making it rather difficult for anything to switch into it reliably without suffering from a burn.
Anyway, out of the five given only two personally stand out the most as a beneficial addition that being...
For starters Articuno is already a fairly underused or undervalued pokemon in NU due to the competition given so the addition of Gale Wings allows it to immediately stand out against the likes of Jynx,Aurorus,Abomasnow ect and as everyone knows Gale Wings has been basically the only reason the Fletchling line has had so much success in competitive battling and the same can be said for Articuno with a priority on both its Roost and Hurricane.
The main reasoning i see this as such an amazing addition on Articuno is just due to the sheer amount of bulk this thing has (90/100/125) even if it means becoming mono-ice for a turn it still will live many hits even uninvested as well as hurt scarfers and quicker mons that rely on Articunos Flying-Type to hurt it siginificantly such as Rotom,Manectric ect. As for Hurricane this just turns Articuno into both a potential Wallbreaker and Revenge Killer due to the priority given and allows it to immediately threaten Scarfers,Speed set-up,slower priority and naturally faster pokemon with an incredibly strong stab move with the only downside being it can miss.
While all sounds near broken on paper Articuno still has a poor typing in the long run and can struggle against naturally bulky-pokemon that resist or are neutral to its stabs such as Regirock,MDino and AV Mag being a few examples (Obviously chip can eventually make them a lacking switch) the only disadvantage that is relevant is losing the Pressure ability which is what made Articuno such an effective mon in a lot of cases due to it stalling out a lot of low pp moves like Fire Blast,Hydro Pump
Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Freeze-Dry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Freeze-Dry
With a unique Ground/Fire typing Camerupt has always been a stand out pokemon that hasn't seen a lot of use and this is one of the main reasons as to why with a lack of reliable recovery, already with the addition of Slack Off Camerupt is able to stand out even further from its Rocker competition and would further its placement on the VR and in play.
What makes it's typing so unique for NU is the fact its able to take on the vast amount of Fire,Electric,Grass and Ice types available in the NU meta including threats such as Magmortar,Jynx,Rotom,Pyroar and more and while some rockers can handle some of them individually Camerupt is able to provide such nice role compression and beat them all at once as well as form many interesting balanced/defensive cores with pokemon such as Gastrodon, Archeops, Aggron ect.
Slack Off on its own would vastly increase Camerupts viability allowing it to stand alone against these threats with a SpD spread which would allow this role compression i have spoken so highly off, in terms of the sr competition camel faces (Rhydon,Steelix,Regirock ect) Camerupt is able to further its distance with Lava Plume making it rather difficult for anything to switch into it reliably without suffering from a burn.
Camerupt @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
Gale Wings Articuno
Priority Hurricanes are cool (no pun intended), but Hurricane is prone to miss. Priority Roost, Defog, and Tailwind can be nice, however.
Slack Off Camerupt
I've literally never used Camerupt, so I can't say much about this. I assume that this+ Solid Rock makes it a much better wall.
Roost Combusken
EEEEK! COMBUSKEN!...
Excuse me. I don't think Roost helps too much as Combusken is pretty frail, even with an Eviolite, which diminishes its usefulness, Also, like ChrystalFalchion said, Combusken can't fit Roost into it's best moveset. Roost can heal Flare Blitz recoil, so that's a thing
Magic Bounce Mismagius
I love using offensive Magic Bounce users, and I would love to use this. This makes Mismagius a nice spinblocker, allowing it to Bounce hazards back and block the Rapid Spins of Pokémon trying to get rid of their mistakes. MG Mismagius can also now check Ferroseed, since all Ferroseed can do is Gyro Ball (or counter it if you run the rare Mystical Fire or Will-O-Wisp). Offensive Pokémon can still destroy Mismagius, however.
Spore/Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Spore is such a good move and Vileplume can really benefit from it, as now it has a surefire way to put something to sleep. Also, Grass-types fear Sludge Bomb, and Ferroseed gets 2HKOed by HP Fire, if you run it over Giga Drain or Moonlight. Toxic Spikes is decent, but there are quite a few Poison-types in NU and PU, and it would be hard to fit it in a set.
My nomination: Slack Off Furfrou
With Slack Off, Furfrou can be a much better wall, with it's amazing bulk thanks to Fur Coat.
Here's a sample set, which is a set I use on my Furfrou, but with Slack Off
Furfrou @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
Careful / Calm Nature
- Return / Snarl
- Slack Off
- Cotton Guard / Refresh
- Toxic
Priority Hurricanes are cool (no pun intended), but Hurricane is prone to miss. Priority Roost, Defog, and Tailwind can be nice, however.
Slack Off Camerupt
I've literally never used Camerupt, so I can't say much about this. I assume that this+ Solid Rock makes it a much better wall.
Roost Combusken
EEEEK! COMBUSKEN!...
Excuse me. I don't think Roost helps too much as Combusken is pretty frail, even with an Eviolite, which diminishes its usefulness, Also, like ChrystalFalchion said, Combusken can't fit Roost into it's best moveset. Roost can heal Flare Blitz recoil, so that's a thing
Magic Bounce Mismagius
I love using offensive Magic Bounce users, and I would love to use this. This makes Mismagius a nice spinblocker, allowing it to Bounce hazards back and block the Rapid Spins of Pokémon trying to get rid of their mistakes. MG Mismagius can also now check Ferroseed, since all Ferroseed can do is Gyro Ball (or counter it if you run the rare Mystical Fire or Will-O-Wisp). Offensive Pokémon can still destroy Mismagius, however.
Spore/Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Spore is such a good move and Vileplume can really benefit from it, as now it has a surefire way to put something to sleep. Also, Grass-types fear Sludge Bomb, and Ferroseed gets 2HKOed by HP Fire, if you run it over Giga Drain or Moonlight. Toxic Spikes is decent, but there are quite a few Poison-types in NU and PU, and it would be hard to fit it in a set.
My nomination: Slack Off Furfrou
With Slack Off, Furfrou can be a much better wall, with it's amazing bulk thanks to Fur Coat.
Here's a sample set, which is a set I use on my Furfrou, but with Slack Off
Furfrou @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
Careful / Calm Nature
- Return / Snarl
- Slack Off
- Cotton Guard / Refresh
- Toxic
If this thing got Gale Wings i would run this particular set and the damage-output is suprising:
Articuno @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Hurricane
- Freeze-Dry
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
This bulkier and stronger set can hit hard, here are some calcs:
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 138-164 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 138-164 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hidden Power Fighting vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 174-205 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hidden Power Fighting vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aurorus: 322-385 (82.9 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hidden Power Fighting vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aurorus: 322-385 (82.9 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Articuno Hidden Power Fighting vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 179-213 (50.8 - 60.5%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Based on these calcs you can see how hard this thing can hit. Stuff like Pyroar, who would normally outspeed it, will think twice before revengekilling it since Hurricane almost drops it.
This would end up in a rise to NU without a doubt and maybe something like A-
Basically a better Roselia. Not sure which move to leave out if you already want Moonlight, Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb.
The other ones aren't that exciting tbh. Camerupt gets nice recovery which is nice, Combusken + Roost = ChickenPass³.
Suggestions:
+ Hurricane
+ Megahorn
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Gale Wings Articuno
Spore + Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Spore + Toxic Spikes Vileplume
Agreed
Basically this.
PrinceLucian
Banned deucer.
Gale Wings Articuno
Toxic Spikes+Spore Vileplume
Toxic Spikes+Spore Vileplume
Articuno + Gale Wings and Vileplume + Toxic Spikes & Spore win!
New week, woohoo :)
+ Stealth Rock
+ Wish
+ Reckless
+ Fire Blast
Discuss your thoughts, potential sets, teammates, their effect on the metagame, other things you want to say, and most importantly more nominations!! :D
New week, woohoo :)
Discuss your thoughts, potential sets, teammates, their effect on the metagame, other things you want to say, and most importantly more nominations!! :D
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