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The PU Viability Ranking Thread (Read post #112)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Dell, May 4, 2013.

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  1. Dell

    Dell Hi there!
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    Good day everyone, and welcome to the official PU Viability Ranking topic. Before I begin, I feel that it's best to explain who I am and the purpose behind this idea, since about half of you are probably wondering why an individual like myself who doesn't seem to have a whole lot of activity on PU threads is negotiating with you with an idea such as this. I'm mostly known for my posts on the NU sub-forums who also happens to analyze and discuss the competitive aspects of the PU metagame among the Pokemon that currently sit in the tier alongside various known users such as Keiran, WhiteDMist, FLCL, and Cherub Agent. For those who are unfamiliar as to where we discuss, it is mostly taken place in an official IRC chat link as #pu, so feel free to stop by and discuss whatever relates to the PU metagame and become involved with some of the well-known community here.

    The general idea of this topic are as follows towards that of the official tiers. Seeing as PU is a tier where many Pokemon are viable and various Pokemon have more or less useful niches than others, we feel that it would be ideal to formulate a process of determining the rankings of Pokemon in descending order of sequence based on their overall viability of the metagame among their specific niches. From there, our dark task will be to deliver our attempts of gauging the metagame data and ensure accurate ratings to the best of our ability towards every viable Pokemon in the PU tier. From here on, this is the source where many of the players that are interested into playing this tier are giving many opportunities to analyze the metagame and ultimately "have their questions" answered in regards to how you should be managing your teams and what to expect for the competitive scene of PU.

    On a side note, keep in mind that everything within their ranks are sorted into alphabetical order; a method in which its use is geared towards organizational purposes. This has no bearing as to what is better or worse if they happen to be listed into the same ranking.

    There will be a few additional methods in which how we will go by partaking this topic for various matters, as we feel that this would give players a better understand towards how things are adjusted here and how that impacts data arrangement. Here are a couple as follows:

    Write-ups: We will currently be working on an idea that involves write-ups of throughout descriptions based upon the Pokemon's overall viability in the metagame and how that justifies towards the ranks that they are currently placed in. Anyone will be allowed to contribute an explanation, and if it's deemed to be sufficient towards the readers that take the most charge of this thread (being myself and the PU viability ranking Senate), it will be included into the OP next to the Pokemon that you are making a write-up for. On a more simplistic note, we ask to provide very detailed and accurate contributions towards their number of viable niches in the metagame. Furthermore, as positions on rankings are always subject to change, try to avoid tier references.

    Untested-Rank: Seeing as this is a thread that exercises discussion about a tier that's largely crowded, we will be including this idea within the rankings. This doesn't necessarily apply to the skill level of Pokemon per say, as this is reserved for Pokemon that may have the potential to justify use of some teams, but haven't had sufficient testing nor discussion among the Senate team that helped organize the current placings to begin with.

    ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀​

    Viability Ranking Council
    For more controversial cases, the viability ranking council will vote on the Pokemon's placing on the ranking's list. This may occasionally occur when the majority has mixed opinions on where they stand towards a nominated Pokemon, for example. These members will also be eligible for proof-reading and providing critique to future/potential write-up analysis, utilizing their knowledge towards the best of their ability on said Pokemon to fix any specific errors and make sure that the write-up is at a cohesive state.

    Anyone can potentially obtain a spot into the council as long as they (and in this case, yourself) can prove to us that they can contribute a substantial amount of data and interest regarding the topic of PU. Good luck and keep it coming with your potential quality work and contribution, everyone.
    • Agent Dell
    • Arcticblast (Moderator)
    • CherubAgent
    • FLCL
    • WhiteDMist
    • Hot N Cold
    • JirachiCelebiMew

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    Tier Ranking List
    Without further ado, here is the initial tier list with the rough definitions of each tier featuring a sequence from ranks higher to lower.

    S-rank
    • [​IMG] Beheeyem
      Punchshroom (open)
      Meet one of the most terrifying threats in PU. At first glance, its only outstanding stat is a high base 125 Special Attack, but is coupled with average 75/75/95 defenses and low 40 Speed. Make no mistake, Beheeyem excels in threatening both offensive and defensive teams alike. It achieves this by using its ability, Analytic and decent movepool to its advantage. Against bulky opponents, Beheeyem relies on their general lack of power and retaliates with Analytic boosted attacks, powered up by either LO or Specs and can shatter most walls with Psychic, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Signal Beam, Hidden Power, or even Nasty Plot. Against offensive teams that pack the punch to threaten Beheeyem, the space alien instead takes advantage of their speed and frailty with Trick Room, demolishing them even without the aid of Analytic thanks to its natural power. When building your team, always keep this threat in mind.
    • [​IMG] Fraxure
      Leafshield (open)

      I introduce to you probably one of the most dangerous set-up sweepers in PU. Fraxure, though an NFE, is absolutely nothing to be taken lightly. With access to a monstrous base 117 Attack, Dragon-Type STAB, and a great boosting move in Dragon Dance, Fraxure is capable of leaving gaping holes in teams that lack a Steel-Type. Not even the iron behemoths are safe, as Fraxure packs Low Kick to pick off troublesome mons like Mawile and Lairon, both of which are cleanly OHKOd after a boost. Fraxure also has access to Taunt, allowing him to get free setup on hazard leads that can't do much in return. Truly, Fraxure is a fearsome beast in the PU tier, and, with the lack of viable Steel-Types, he can truly shine as an S-Rank threat.
    • [​IMG] Golduck
      WhiteDMist (open)
      Golduck is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the tier. It sets a standard for Speed in the tier, with its base 85 Spe being a key tier to outpace. Its Scarf set is an excellent revenge killer, especially for the many weather sweepers of the tier, due to its decent Special Attack and Cloud Nine ability. With a Scarf, Cloud Nine Golduck outspeeds every Chlorophyll and Swift Swim user in the tier, like Jumpluff, Mantine and Leafeon. It can run a potent Life Orb All-Out Attacking set, or a Calm Mind set meant to sweep late game. It is notable that even without a Scarf, it can outpace quite a large amount of weather sweeprs and hit them back hard with Ice Beam and Hidden Power Electric. It has Encore to disrupt your opponent's set up as well, providing plenty of time for your own set up. It functions extremely well in the Rain due to Swift Swim and its excellent coverage. While Simipour may seem to be better with higher SpA and Spe, it is not as effective against the weather teams that PU contains; nor can it boast the ability to blast holes teams with a single Rain Dance. Ironically, it is one of the few Water Pokemon that can function in the Sun as well, thanks to Cloud Nine negating the Sun's negative effects while it is in play. It can also take advantage of its usable bulk with a bulky Calm Mind set to power through teams while with multiple boosts. This means that Golduck is very easy to fit on most offensive teams, and even balanced and defensive teams can consider using it as a win condition. With its ability to perform is so many different roles successfully, as well as being a decent defense against weather teams, Golduck is without a doubt an S-Rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] Rotom-F
      Audiosurfer (open)
      Rotom-F is a deadly offensive Pokemon in the tier, and one that every team should be prepared for thanks to its combination of great stats and stellar coverage. It has multiple viable sets, all of which are great in their roles. When equipped with a Choice Scarf, it becomes one of the premier revenge killers in the tier with BoltBeam coverage to hit anything that will try and switch in hard, as well as getting Volt Switch to maintain offensive momentum and Trick to cripple defensive Pokemon. It also gets the jump on the important base 85 speed tier, meaning that it can easily dispatch key threats such as Choice Scarf Golduck. It can also use a SubSplit set to great effect to allow it to shield itself from damage and status to hit hard from behind a sub, with Pain Split allowing it to keep its HP high and muscle past things that could take its hits.

    A-rank
    • [​IMG] Arbok
      Punchshroom (open)
      Arbok is arguably the most dangerous Poison-type in PU. That may not sound like much due to Poison's terrible coverage, but Arbok makes up for this with amazing abilities and workable movepool. Arbok's signature trait is that it has Coil, which combos fantastically with its strongest move in Gunk Shot, which is a powerful move in its own right. By boosting its power and accuracy, Arbok can boast some surprising power, and can take a physical hit or two with its Defense boost. It also has great coverage in Earthquake, Aqua Tail and Seed Bomb to go alongside its STAB and has Sucker Punch for faster but frailer threats, who are especially vulnerable to +1 boosted priority. Arbok's abilities are also a massive boon in easing its setup: Intimidate cushions physical blows from the likes of Fraxure or Stoutland easier for Arbok as well as the team, whereas Shed Skin allows Arbok to shrug off status and attempt Rest as a form of recovery. Arbok is rather lackluster as an attacker before a Coil though, with its STAB being unreliable, but if Arbok does manage to get a turn to do so, you'd better hope your physical wall is in good shape or Arbok will prove too strong and/or bulky to stop.
    • [​IMG] Camerupt
      Cherub Agent (open)
      Camerupt is one of the premier Fire-types in PU. Thanks to its Fire/Ground typing it is neutral to Stealth Rock, and its immunity to Electric and neutrality to Ice make it a great check to Rotom-F. A specially defensive set is very common as it can avoid the 2HKO from Scarf Blizzard, and proceed to set up Stealth Rock. Lava Plume and Will-O-Wisp are excellent ways to patch up its physical defense when running a specially bulky set. Camerupt however also has an amazing offensive typing with excellent neutral coverage between its STAB moves that allows it to seriously hurt its opponents. A Choice Specs set deals crippling damage between Fire Blast and Earth Power, which can switch in and out with far greater ease than other Fire-types, while a Rock Polish set with Life Orb patches up its low Speed and allows Camerupt to sweep.
    • [​IMG] Combusken
      Audiosurfer (open)
      With its good Special Attack, great offensive coverage, and excellent ability, Combusken is one of the premier Special sweepers in the tier. While base 85 Special Attack isn't too high, it is easily remedied with a Life Orb in conjunction with Combusken's high powered STABs. Also, Combusken's poor base 55 Speed is also fixed thanks to its ability Speed Boost which grants it a +1 to its Speed at the end of every turn, transforming Combusken from slow to blazing fast in little time. In addition, not many things in the tier enjoy switching into one of its attacks, especially with hazards support. All of these combine to make Combusken a fearsome sweeper, since once it gets going it can be very difficult to stop. However, not everything is good for Combusken. Its STABs can be unreliable with accuracies of 85% and 70%. Also, Combusken is very frail, which makes it susceptible to priority moves that can circumvent its Speed boosts.
    • [​IMG] Duosion
      WhiteDMist (open)
      Duosion is a pretty versatile Pokemon in terms of what role it can play for a team. With its excellent physical bulk with Eviolite, it can act as a physical wall and pivot for the early stages of a battle. At the end, it can easily pull a surprise sweep with Calm Mind and its decent two move coverage with Psychic and Signal Beam. It can also catch many of the Dark types in the tier off guard with a Signal Beam on the switch, which can OHKO many of them with a round of Stealth Rock damage. One can also consider its Trick Room set, which combines bulk and power; this set has the ability to destroy fast teams easily, but lacks the sheer physical bulk of the standard Calm Mind set. Such a set actually takes advantage of Duosion's low Speed. The main thing that makes Duosion even more of a threat is Magic Guard. It cannot be worn down by hazards or status, which removes a big problem that plagues most other set up sweepers. The ability to go from defensive to offensive, and the ability to ignore one of the biggest threats to sweeping makes Duosion a major player in the PU tier.
    • [​IMG] Gabite
    • [​IMG] Gigalith
      sickweare (open)

      Gigalith has a lot going for it in the PU metagame. The first asset that makes it an important player is its access to Stealth Rock. This may not seem too amazing until you see that it has Sturdy which almost guarantees it will get Stealth Rock up. Sturdy also means it can run an effective Custap Berry set with Explosion, Earthquake, and Stone Edge/Rock Blast which come off its outstanding base 135 Attack stat. It can also go the bulky route with its good 85/130 physical defenses. It can utilize this bulk to run a Choice Band set as well, which makes Gigalith more versatile at the expense of a great Stealth Rock setter. Gigalith has some flaws though, as its speed is absolutely pitiful. Even with Autotomize at its disposal, a +2 Gigalith isn't outspeeding the whole tier, and you generally lose a valuable move slot to it. Gigalith also has below-average special bulk, meaning it will fold to super effective water and grass type attacks, as well as powerful special attackers such as Beheeyem. Despite its downfalls, Gigalith makes its niche as one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters in PU, and should be prepared for accordingly.
    • [​IMG] Graveler
      Audiosurfer (open)

      In PU, Graveler can fulfill the role of great offensive Stealth Rock user in the metagame. While it does face competition from things such as Rampardos, Relicanth, and Gigalith, it has qualities that help separate it from each of them. It is bulkier than Rampardos is, especially with an Eviolite equipped (it can even live through an opposing Rampardos's Superpower with max HP investment), which prevents it from being overshadowed by Rampardos's superior offensive stats. Also, Sturdy gives it a niche over Relicanth since it can guarantee that Stealth Rock is set up or live a hit and retaliate with an attack of its own. While Gigalith also has these qualities, Graveler's access to Sucker Punch and its Ground typing that allows it to switch in and stop Electric types like Rotom-F from wreaking havoc gives it a reason to be used over Gigalith. Overall, despite weaknesses to common types such as Water and Grass, Graveler is a great Pokemon in the tier and can perform well when used properly.
    • [​IMG] Huntail
      JirachiCelebiMew (open)

      While Huntail is outclassed by Gorebyss and Carracosta in NU, it doesn't face any competition as a Shell Smash sweeper in PU at all, at the exception of the pathetic Clamperl, who cannot live a hit and fails to outspeed much even at +2. Huntail is extremely powerful in PU, as it's one of the tier's best lategame sweeper. After one Shell Smash with a Naive Nature, it outspeeds +1 positive-natured base 85s, which gives it the jump over Golduck, even it's Scarf variant. The eel's favorite set is a mixed set with Ice Beam, as it allows it to beat some of it's counters such as Vileplume. Return + Waterfall gives Huntail near perfect coverage, as it is only resisted by the rare Frillish, but it can run Crunch to beat it. Huntail can even run a fully special set, as it is no longer outclassed by Gorebyss. What doesn't place Huntail in a higher rank is the presence of Rotom-F, as its Scarf set can outspeed it at +2 and proceeds to OHKO with Thunderbolt. This situation can be somewhat remidied by running Substitute over Ice Beam and Return over Crunch. All in all, Huntail is a fearsome sweeper, ready to take over the sea from the abyss.
    • [​IMG] Jumpluff
      Cherub Agent (open)
      It may not look it, but Jumpluff is one of the nastiest little sweepers that PU has to offer. Once you look past its obviously below average base Attack, you'll notice that Jumpluff is among the fastest Pokemon in the tier at 110 base Speed and has access to a colorful movepool including gems such as Sleep Powder and STAB Acrobatics. Thanks to its amazing Speed it can put practically any Pokemon that isn't carrying a Choice Scarf to sleep (preferably one that resists its STAB combination such as Klang), and then proceed to set up a Swords Dance. When backed up by a Flying Gem, Acrobatics reaches and amazing 165 BP on the first turn without counting STAB, and 110 BP after that. Seed Bomb is Jumpluff's secondary attacking move of choice to snipe down prevalent Water-types such as Golduck and Simipour. Jumpluff is also very good at setting up Sunny Day, thanks again to Sleep Powder and other cool support moves such as Encore.
    • [​IMG] Linoone
      WhiteDMist (open)
      Linoone is one of the most dangerous set-up sweepers in the tier. After a Belly Drum, very little can stop its sweep unless they are Steel-types. Even then they need to be at relatively high HP or they will still risk being 2HKOed. It isn't as difficult as it is in the higher tiers to set up a Belly Drum, since Linoone can actually afford to run some bulk and it only really needs some Dual Screen support. It is also able to run a nice Choice Band set to take advantage of having one of the strongest priority moves in the tier (and the most reliable one at that). Base 70 Attack holds it back from being a huge threat without a boost, but with that boost it can steamroll whole teams; let's not ignore the fact that Linoone can now use an Adamant nature without regrets.
    • [​IMG] Mantine
      Audiosurfer (open)
      Mantine has plenty of things going for it in the PU metagame. It can use an offensive Rain Dance set to great effect, using its Swift Swim boost to outspeed many other Pokemon in the tier under rain while getting a boost on one of its STABs. Thanks to its good typing, decent HP, and fantastic Special Defense, it can set up easier than other weather sweepers such as Swanna. It also has the option of using a Physically Defensive RestTalk set to beat things such as Throh and Klang and utilize its good Defensive typing. Although it might seem like there are few reasons not to use Mantine, there are flaws that hamper its usability. Mantine's Base 80 Special Attack is good, but not great, so it has trouble breaking through any Specially Defensive Pokemon that could try and switch in on it. Also, it faces competition as a Rain Dance Sweeper from Swanna, which has a higher Special Attack, and access to Hurricane. In addition, its weakness to Stealth Rock hampers its life expectancy, especially on Defensive sets where it will need to be able to tank hits repeatedly. Despite these flaws, Mantine is an excellent Pokemon in PU and is worth considering on any team.
    • [​IMG] Mr. Mime
      Punchshroom (open)
      Mr. Mime is one of the more, if not most interesting Psychic type in the tier. It has an absolutely massive movepool, much of which consists of glance-worthy gimmicks, which allows it to perform a variety of roles. It has a good Speed of 90 (fast enough to outrun Golduck and Rotom-Frost) and Special Attack of 100, as well as a high base 120 Special Defense stat that allows it to take weaker special attacks such as Scald or Giga Drain with ease, though poor 40 base HP and lack of reliable recovery means it can't wall them. It also has a good offensive movepool, but usually STAB paired with either Signal Beam or Focus Blast + Shadow Ball are fairly standard fare with other moves like Thunderbolt and Energy Ball as bonuses. Mr. Mime can run Choice items with Trick to disrupt walls, to revenge or cripple opponents. It possesses good boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to possibly sweep. Mr. Mime's most notable niche however, is being an excellent Baton Passer, with access to moves like Barrier/Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and Meditate to grant its teammates a boost. What makes Mr. Mime even more potent though is its access to Encore, Taunt and Soundproof, which are godsends to Baton Pass teams or "small-scale" Baton Pass alike, the former two granting free setup turns and the latter preventing phazing by Roar or Perish Song without lifting a finger. Filter or Technician can still be used for non-Baton Pass teams, but immunity to sound-based moves is more relevant than it lets on, given its weakness instead of immunity to Bug Buzz otherwise. Despite all these great traits that make it a good offensive sweeper or supporter, Mr. Mime is horrid at taking physical hits (and there are many), even with the aid of Barrier, so Mr. Mime still has to watch its step.
    • [​IMG] Rampardos
      JirachiCelebiMew (open)

      Rampardos has to live up to many huge expectations, as it beholds the highest Attack stat of all non-legendary Pokemon. While it is quite lackluster in NU, it's a whole different story in PU, as its extremely powerful attacks are very hard to wall. Due to the mediocrity of the majority of the spinners in the tier, many people use Mold Breaker Rampardos to break through the hazards users, as the skull-headed Pokemon makes a very favorable matchup against them with its coverage moves and STAB. Rampardos can run many sets, all of them having pros and cons. It can run a Choice Scarf set if your team needs a Scarfer, it can run an offensive set with Life Orb, set up Stealth Rock for your team or even attempt a sweep with Rock Polish. The downfall of this Pokemon is its frailty, as it cannot live many powerful hits. It also had a bad Speed, and cannot attempt a sweep without setting up, which is very hard due to its frailty. Nonetheless, Rampardos is a very powerful Pokemon and should be prepared for.
    • [​IMG] Rapidash
      WhiteDMist (open)
      Rapidash is one of the most fastest Pokemon in the tier with its excellent base 105 Speed. Very little in the tier can reliably take a Flare Blitz, especially when boosted by Life Orb or Choice Band. It works very well on Sun teams as a wallbreaker because very little can take 2 Sun boosted hits, accounting for the item as well. It also has Morning Sun to mitigate the massive recoil and Stealth Rock damage somewhat; it also let's you play mind games with annoying Sucker Punch users. It can also go with a mixed set, and even set up Sun. Such a set lets Rapidash blast through many of its normal checks and counters. It is pretty frail, but its Speed and power lets it keep the pressure on the opponent.
    • [​IMG] Simipour
    • [​IMG] Simisage
    • [​IMG] Stoutland
      Leafshield (open)

      Possibly the most versatile Normal-Type in PU, Stoutland works wonders as a bulky shuffler, T-Wave supporter, and tank. With good 85/90/90 defenses, a strong base 100 Attack, and a good base 80 Speed, Stoutland can fit a multitude of roles on a team. With access to great coverage moves in Wild Charge, Superpower, and Crunch,anything that switches in on the terrier risks the chance of getting hit pretty hard. Not only this, but Stoutland is the only Normal-Type in the tier with access to both Thunder Wave and Roar, giving it a niche as a shuffler and team supporter, pairing especially well with somewhat slow sweepers such as Whiscash and Fraxure, giving them ample time to set up. Most notably, however, is Stoutland's ability to run one of the most fearsome Choice Band sets in the tier, utilizing his amazing coverage, good speed, and decent bulk to dent unprepared teams. Overall, Stoutland is a threatening mon in PU with many roles, having a very solid niche as a bulky shuffler on more balanced teams, which are very common in PU.
    • [​IMG] Swanna
      JoshuaMunoz (open)

      Using Swanna is quite simple: spam her STAB moves, in the rain preferably, and watch her demolish teams that are unprepared from her unleashed fury. Her superb speed as well as near-perfect neutral coverage in only two STAB moves enables her to use the rest of the moves to support herself, and to an extent, her teammates as well. Rain Dance, Substitute, Roost, and Tailwind are really good options that should be considered on any Swanna set. Icy Wind, Endeavor, and Featherdance are usually inferior to the moves listed above, though they are still interesting options for Swanna to use.

      But Swanna, just like any other Pokemon in the tier where even NU doesn't want them, still has flaws that prevent her from wrecking every team she encounters. The prevalence of Choice Scarf Electric types and Chinchou in the tier limit her switch-in opportunities. Her defensive typing isn't great either, with Stealth Rock promptly getting rid off 25% of her health, though Roost mitigates it somewhat. Mantine and Golduck deserve a mention as they compete with her in terms of sweeping prowess and versatility, as well as having superior abilities in Swift Swim and Cloud Nine . Even with the flaws mentioned, Swanna is a top-tier threat and one that should be prepared for on any team.
    • [​IMG] Swoobat
      col49 (open)

      Despite its mediocre base stats (with the exception of Speed), Swoobat is one of the most threatening set-up sweepers in the PU metagame. Thanks to its Simple ability, Swoobat is capable of boosting its mediocre Special Attack stat to dangerous levels quickly, with all but Persian and Sneasel being out-sped and very likely KOed without the use of a Choice Scarf. The excellent STAB coverage that Swoobat gets makes it all the more deadly, as Steel-types are few and far between, allowing it to afford luxuries like Substitute to make it even more difficult to handle. However, Swoobat's laughable 67 / 55 / 55 defenses make it both difficult to set up and relatively easy to revenge-kill without dual screens support, and its lack of power without a boost is often its undoing. Constant offensive pressure alone can leave Swoobat with almost no chance to so much as lift a finger in a match. While Swoobat is somewhat harmless at first, players must be incredibly weary of giving it free turns, lest they incur its wrath.
    • [​IMG] Ursaring
      Leafshield (open)

      Having the most raw power of any Normal-Type in PU at 130, as well as access to two amazing abilities in Guts and Quick Feet, makes Ursaring one of the best status absorbers on offensive teams. Ursaring's super Attack stat and great coverage options are more than enough to leave a dent in the opposition with proper prediction. Along with STAB Facade (being inherently boosted to sky high levels along with his Attack and Speed with Gut or Quick Feet), Ursaring has access to high-powered coverage moves in Earthquake, Close Combat, Crunch, and Stone Edge, making for a terrifying sweeper. The bear also has access to two great boosting moves in Swords Dance and Bulk Up, allowing him to set up and break even the sturdiest of walls with a boosted Facade. The Bulk Up set gets a special mention, as it allows Ursaring to boost up and tank hits as it does so fit. This is best done with the ability Quick Feet, allowing to hit right off the bat and get the jump on walls. If your team is about pressuring the opponent, look no further than Ursaring as your Normal-Type of choice.
    • [​IMG] Vigoroth
      Leafshield (open)

      Not too many people expect the sloth to make an impression in battle, but Vigoroth can put in some serious work on balanced teams. Vigoroth is one of the most consistent, reliable Normal-Types in PU, with great bulk with Eviolite, good base 80 Attack, and an amazing base 90 Speed, allowing him to outspeed non-scarfed Golduck, an amazing trait in the meta. Vigoroth has an amazing movepool, with moves like Encore and Taunt, Knock Off, and offensive options ranging from Focus Punch to Earthquake, as well as an amazing set-up move in Bulk Up. This, coupled with his good bulk, speed and Attack, makes Vigoroth an amazing stallbreaker with a Bulk Up/Slack Off set with Taunt and Return, easily forcing switches and racking up hazard damage. On the downside, Vigoroth has pretty poor Special Defenses, making him easy to finish off, but he should seriously be considered for every team.
    • [​IMG] Vileplume
      Audiosurfer (open)

      Vileplume has many great things going for it in the metagame. Thanks to its good bulk and useful resistances to things such as Fighting, Electric, and Water attacks, it can serve as a useful pivot on offensive teams with its Life Orb Pivot set. It's no slouch offensively either thanks to its Base 100 Special Attack allowing it to dent things that might think they can safely switch in. It can also utilize a defensive set to great effect thanks to supporting moves such as Aromatherapy and Sleep Powder. While there are Pokemon with similar typing in the tier such as Victreebel, Vileplume's superior bulk and useful ability allow it to set itself apart from these options. Although Vileplume has a poor Speed stat and its movepool isn't very large, it can easily find success in the metagame and support the team when utilized to its strengths.
    • [​IMG] Zweilous
      Punchshroom (open)
      Being the pre-evolution of a pseudo-legendary, Zweilous already has high expectations set for it, and certainly holds it up by packing one of the strongest Outrages in the entire game by virtue of Hustle. When coupled with the vast lack of Steels in PU, this is extremely appealing, as Zweilous can bust through a lot of Pokemon in PU in just one or two hits. It has great coverage to boot, with Superpower synergizing greatly with both its STABs. Zweilous has a number of sets it can run: Choice Scarf to launch quick powerful Hustled attacks; Choice Band to utterly break virtually anything with the right move should they be unable to outspeed or KO it; and Eviolite to take advantage of its interesting typing that grants it 7 resistances. Zweilous, however, isn't unstoppable for a number of reasons. It cannot boost its Attack and especially Speed simultaneously, it has 4 fairly common weaknesses, and Hustle misses can be infuriatingly game-changing. However, keep in mind of Zweilous's looming presence, as most nothing wants to be on the receiving end of Zweilous's attacks.

    B-rank
    • [​IMG] Audino
      Hot N Cold (open)
      Audino without a doubt is one of the best walls on the PU tier, with a great bulk and paired with an insane ability: Regenerator; which makes it really hard to take down. Audino has equal defenses and can theoretically be a physical wall, but its typing lends itself to Special Walling because it cannot reliably handle the more prominent physical attackers of the tier (Fraxure, Arbok, Linoone, Ursaring, etc.) as well as it can against special attackers. It is also a momentum killer, but it is good at walling and passing Wishes and supporting with Heal Bell. A big problem for Audino, however, is that is a setup fodder for many Pokemon. Double Edge and Encore are decent options to prevent this. Finally, Audino lacks a good defensive typing, since make Audino is weak to Focus Blast which is common on special sweepers. All of these makes for Audino to become a solid B-rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] Basculin
    • [​IMG] Butterfree
    • [​IMG] Chinchou
      Audiosurfer (open)
      While it would seem like a Pokemon such as Chinchou has no reason to be used in the metagame, it retains a niche in being a strong answer to dangerous Fire, Water, and Electric types in the tier. A RestTalk set allows Chinchou to switch in and continuously wall Pokemon such as Golduck, Rotom-F and Simisear throughout the game without being worn down easily. Also, its great typing in conjunction with its useful abilities allow for it to be switched into these threats easily. Although it might seem as though Chinchou's got it all, RestTalk's unreliability paired with Chinchou's poor offensive stats allowing it to be set up on by a variety of threats hamper its usability. Despite these things, Chinchou is a solid performer that can help patch up holes on a team when played to its strengths.
    • [​IMG] Dodrio
      Punchshroom (open)
      Dodrio is a very simple pokemon: it hits hard, it hits fast, and hurts a lot of things with his STABs alone. His suicidal nature also allows him to utilize moves such as Flail and Endeavor to decent effect, or do the complete opposite with Roost to prolong his rampage or/and stick around to disrupt opponents with Taunt. Sadly, his STABs are pretty much all he's got going for him, so he becomes a complete liability in the face of Rock and Steel types. If you can look past that issue however, you'll have in your hands a powerful and efficient attacker.
    • [​IMG] Dragonair
    • [​IMG] Exploud
    • [​IMG] Fearow
      Punchshroom (open)
      Fearow has decent Attack and good Speed, which is good news for a sweeper. What sets him apart from the more powerful Dodrio is his ability to actually do something to his counters in Rock and Steel types. U-Turn is a good momentum preserver, whereas Drill Run can do some damage to the aforementioned Rocks and Steels, though it won't do too mch against bulkier pokemon of that type. That's where the good news end unfortunately, as Fearow's strongest Flying STAB in Drill Peck is nigh inferior to any Brave Bird in the tier (even Farfetch'd), and is otherwise outshone by Dodrio. Even then, Fearow is still fast and strong, and is a safer alternative to the 3-headed bird.
    • [​IMG] Flareon
    • [​IMG] Girafarig
    • [​IMG] Glaceon
    • [​IMG] Glalie
    • [​IMG] Golbat
    • [​IMG] Grumpig
    • [​IMG] Heatmor
    • [​IMG] Hypno
    • [​IMG] Kingler
    • [​IMG] Klang
      Audiosurfer (open)
      At first glance, Klang isn't a Pokemon that has much going for it, but underneath an unassuming exterior lies a fearsome sweeper. Thanks to the Defensive boosts from Eviolite and fantastic resistances and immunities from its Steel typing, Klang has no difficulty utilizing Shift Gear and Substitute to boost its stats and go for a sweep. Klang is capable of setting up on many threats such as Dodrio, Duosion and Vileplume with these traits, as well as acting as an offensive check to them and other threats thanks to its typing. Klang does have some crippling flaws that prevent it from performing as well as one might expect. Its movepool is barren, with Return and Wild Charge being the only coverage options on a sweeper set. Also, bulky Water and Fighting types such as Throh and Seadra have no problem walling Klang to hell and back. Another thing going against it is that its Attack stat isn't as impressive as other sweepers in the tier such as Ursaring or Fraxure, so it requires hazards support or multiple boosts to break through some of the bulkier Pokemon in the tier. These things might be important, but Klang is still not to be underestimated, and is a great Pokemon despite its flaws.
    • [​IMG] Lairon
    • [​IMG] Leafeon
      OneMightyparasect (open)
      Leafeon might just be one of the most interesting Pokemon around. With a great base 110 attack, good base 95 speed and a set-up move in the form of Swords Dance, it can act as a great physical attacker. Substitutes can absorb status efficiently if it doesn't run Heal Bell. Grass + Normal gives it very good neutral coverage, only missing out on a few Pokemon (Wormadam-T, Mawile, Drifblim, Shedinja, Klang, Bronzor, Lampent and Gastly). Alternatively, it can run Baton pass to pass its SD Boosts and/or Substitudes to it's allies, meaning that it can choose if wants to sweep itself, or support an ally. It also gets some useful utility options in Heal bell, Wish and Roar. This, along with its amazing base 130 defense and reliable recovery in Wish and/or Synthesis, gives it a useful niche as a defensive wall, with no unboosted physical attack in PU cleanly OHKOing it except for Rapidash's Flare Blitz. It can even act as a pretty good sun sweeper thanks to Chlorophyll. What places it in B-rank, however, is its atrocious base 65 HP and Special Defense stats, meaning that any neutral special attack will cripple it severely, or even OHKO it. It also faces a lot of competition from Vileplume, Tropius and Meganium as a defensive grass type, while simultaneously facing competition from Jumpluff as a offensive one. It also lacks Sleep Powder, which means that it will have a harder time setting up than, for instance, Jumpluff. All in all, Leafeon is still a big defensive and offensive threat that you shouldn't underestimate.
    • [​IMG] Luxray
    • [​IMG] Machoke
    • [​IMG] Maractus
    • [​IMG] Masquerain
    • [​IMG] Mawile
    • [​IMG] Meganium
    • [​IMG] Muk
    • [​IMG] Pelipper
      anty208 (open)
      Pelipper is quite a versatile pokemon in PU, as it can be used offensively or defensively. Firstly, it may seem that it is outclassed by Mantine and Swanna defensively and offensively respectively but it is not. It has quite a good defensive movepool including, Roost, Tailwind, Toxic, Knock Off and Stockpile all though some arent worth using most of which Mantine doesn't have. Pelipper also has a great defensive typing, only weak to Rock and Electric. It is great at setting up the rain as even without Damp Rock it gets passive recovery in its ability Rain Dish. It also can spam perfectly accurate Hurricanes and U-turn out into a sweeper. Offensively, a scarfed set could be used as it has similar special attack than Swanna and a more powerful STAB, in Hydro Pump. Overall Pelipper is quite a versatile pokemon who perform several roles effectively.
    • [​IMG] Raichu
    • [​IMG] Relicanth
    • [​IMG] Scraggy
      Cherub Agent (open)
      It may look like a joke, but once Scraggy gets going it can be extremely hard to stop. Thanks to its decent bulk when considering Eviolite, Scraggy can often set up a Dragon Dance with ease and then proceed to wreck the tier with its unresisted STAB combination. High Jump Kick is incredibly powerful and can destroy all of the S rank Pokemon after a Dragon Dance (and Scraggy then outspeeds them too) while Drain Punch can be used to heal off the damage Scraggy took while setting up or possible HJK recoil. Crunch is the perfect move for disposing of the Psychic- and Ghost-types which resist Scraggy's Fighting moves. Scraggy also has three amazing abilities in Shed Skin (which allows Scraggy to not be crippled by Poison or Burn), Moxie (which can start a snowball effect after a kill and make Scaraggy nigh impossible to wall) and Intimidate, which facilidates setup opportunities. It can also go a more defensive route with maximum Special Defense and HP, with Rest, Bulk Up, Drain Punch and Payback when using Shed Skin.
    • [​IMG] Seviper
    • [​IMG] Shelgon
      Audiosurfer (open)
      Shelgon's useful resistances and good bulk, especially when equipped with Eviolite, help it to retain a niche in the PU metagame. One set it can use is a RestTalk Dragon Dance set, where it uses RestTalk in conjunction with its great bulk to set up multiple Dragon Dances and attempt a sweep. It can also be used as a pivot earlier in the match thanks to its good stats and resists. Another route Shelgon can go is a purely defensive route, where Shelgon uses its resists and physical bulk to wall many of the physical attackers that are in the tier. Not everything is great for the dragon though. It faces competition from other Dragons such as Zweilous. Also, Steel types such as Klang have nothing to fear from Shelgon, as it can't leave a scratch on them. In addition, even with Eviolite Shelgon's Special Defense isn't too great, so it is prey for revenge killers like Golduck and Rotom-F. Shelgon is still a great choice to consider on teams despite this though.
    • [​IMG] Shiftry
    • [​IMG] Simisear
    • [​IMG] Sneasel
    • [​IMG] Throh
    • [​IMG] Tropius
    • [​IMG] Victreebel
    • [​IMG] Whiscash

    C-rank
    • [​IMG] Bellossom
    • [​IMG] Corsola
    • [​IMG] Frillish
    • [​IMG] Gastly
      Leafshield (open)

      Similar to his eldest brother in OU, Gastly is a fast, frail, and powerful threat in PU. Sitting at a good speed tier at 80, with an astounding base 100 Special Attack, as well as access to all the coverage he needs as well as support options like Hypnosis and Disable, Gastly is most likely the best SubDisabler in the tier. Utilizing his speed, which is enough to outspeed the likes of Fraxure, Gastly can come in on nearly any Choice-Locked attacker (sans Scarves), Sub up, and Disable, forcing a Struggle. This allows you to rinse and repeat, making for a very annoying sweep buster. While SubDisable is most likely Gastly's most effective set, other sets can be run, such as an anti-lead set utilizing a Life Orb of Focus Sash, a Scarf set, and SubHypnosis (which can be paired easily with Disable, allowing for more entry hazard abuse.). The major flaw in Gastly, however, is that he cannot take any attack that he's not immune to. Like, at all. 30/30/35 is pretty damn bad. Not only that, but Gastly is hit Super Effectively by Sucker Punch, PU's most common form of priority. Gastly also fails to outspeed major threats such as Golduck (the most common variant is Scarf, which Gastly can't outspeed even with his own Scarf.) and Mr. Mime, allowing them to swiftly take him out. All in all, Gastly's a solid Pokémon, but he needs some support to pull off what he needs to consistently.
    • [​IMG] Granbull
    • [​IMG] Kecleon
    • [​IMG] Illumise
    • [​IMG] Lampent
    • [​IMG] Leavanny
    • [​IMG] Magmar
    • [​IMG] Mightyena
    • [​IMG] Murkrow
    • [​IMG] Natu
    • [​IMG] Persian
    • [​IMG] Pidgeot
    • [​IMG] Pikachu
    • [​IMG] Pupitar
      JirachiCelebiMew (open)

      Pupitar, at first look, has mediocre stats, with only its subpar Attack standing out. If you like harder though, you will notice it gets some really neat stuff, like Shed Skin and even Dragon Dance. Ground + Rock gives it near perfect coverage, as he gets STAB on this EdgeQuake combination. Rest and Shed Skin allows Pupitar to heal itself and wake up at the end of the turn. While all this may make Pupitar seem like a B-ranked Pokémon, it's not. Tyranitar's pre-evo sadly has some annoying flaws. It's Rock / Ground typing is the biggest of those flaws, as it curses Pupitar with weaknesses to some of the most common types in PU such as Grass and Water. It also makes it extremely hard to find a spot for a Stealth Rocker on your team, as you're almost always stuck with a Steel-type if you don't want synergy problems. Even then, you're stuck with two Pokemon with Ground and Fighting weaknesses. All in all, Pupitar is a great lategame sweeper and is a great C-rank Pokemon.
    • [​IMG] Regigigas
    • [​IMG] Riolu
    • [​IMG] Seadra
    • [​IMG] Stunfisk
    • [​IMG] Tentacool
    • [​IMG] Togetic
    • [​IMG] Vanilluxe
    • [​IMG] Volbeat
    • [​IMG] Wailord
    • [​IMG] Whirlpede
    • [​IMG] Wormadam-Trash
      anty208 (open)
      Wormadam-Trash makes quite a good wall. It as one of the best defensive types in the game being only weak to one type; Fire, and having 9 resistances alongside a Poison immunity. It is often used as a Stealth Rock setter as it can easily get it up if the opponent lacks a Fire type move in which it can easily scout for using its ability, Anticipation. It is good at absorbing status as it is immune to Toxic and being paralysed strengthens her main attack. Wormadam-T is not perfect as it doesn't have reliable recovery and has low offensive stats. Protect is great for scouting and racking a bit more Toxic. It is Taunt bait as Gyro Ball isn't going to be doing much especially to slow Taunters like Mawile.

    D-rank
    • [​IMG] Banette
    • [​IMG] Bibarel
    • [​IMG] Carnivine
    • [​IMG] Magcargo
    • [​IMG] Noctowl
    • [​IMG] Octillery
    • [​IMG] Parasect
    • [​IMG] Phione
    • [​IMG] Shedinja
    • [​IMG] Shuckle
    • [​IMG] Spinda
      OneMightyparasect (open)
      Spinda has one niche in the PU metagame that allows it to not be completely useless, Contrary. While its stats are some of the worst, this ability allows it to basically gain a Bulk Up every time it uses its Dream World exclusive move, Superpower. Spinda unfortunately lacks the bulk to set up these boosts itself, meaning it has to relay on massive support from its teammates to even stand a chance. Trick Room can solve its speed issues, but unfortunately for Spinda, 60 base speed is not slow enough in PU.
      Alternatively, it can use Sucker Punch to hit faster opponents. Its movepool is also very extensive, with useful support moves such as Wish, Rapid Spin and Baton Pass. These three are sadly not compatible with Superpower. Still, it has plenty of offensive opinions, such as the elemental punches, Wild Charge, and even Zen Headbutt. They sadly serve no purpose, as all Spinda will be doing is spamming Superpower, hoping that its stats will turn into something somewhat decent.
    • [​IMG] Sudowoodo
    • [​IMG] Swalot
    • [​IMG] Unfezant
    • [​IMG] Vespiquen
    • [​IMG] Wigglytuff

    E-rank
    :pirate: Everything else.​

    Untested-Rank: Reserved for pokemon that may have niches, but requires more sufficient testing for a more accurate indication of where they should be placed. After you've tested them, post your experience about them so that we can determine a tier.

    • [​IMG] Anorith
    • [​IMG] Beartic
    • [​IMG] Bronzor
    • [​IMG] Dwebble
    • [​IMG] Gothorita
    • [​IMG] Kabuto
    • [​IMG] Marshtomp
    • [​IMG] Meditite
    • [​IMG] Omanyte
    • [​IMG] Pineco
    • [​IMG] Porygon
    • [​IMG] Prinplup
    • [​IMG] Sandshrew
    • [​IMG] Shelmet
    • [​IMG] Staryu
    • [​IMG] Trapinch
    • [​IMG] Wynaut
    • [​IMG] Yanma

    Rules:
    • Try to only suggest nominations for viable Pokemon only. There is no real reason to include the entire PU legality list when some things are simply too mediocre/incompetent to justify any use.
    • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated. This applies the same way for statements that doesn't back up any sufficient evidence.
    • Try to remain civilized with everyone at all costs. There is absolutely no reason to outright scold another user just because they happen to disagree with you.
    • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!" Also, just because you realistically think a Pokemon is better that doesn't always apply within the case of the actual metagame.
    • No talk about editing the official Smogon tier lists or any mentions of Pokemon possibly moving out from PU to NU.
    • Please do not make any Write-up critiques unless you're a PU Viability Ranking council member, regardless of how simple it may be for you to handle specific errors of that category.
    Merry posting.
  2. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    [​IMG] Dodrio:
    Punchshroom (open)
    Dodrio is a very simple pokemon: it hits hard, it hits fast, and hurts a lot of things with his STABs alone. His suicidal nature also allows him to utilize moves such as Flail and Endeavor to decent effect, or do the complete opposite with Roost to prolong his rampage or/and stick around to disrupt opponents with Taunt. Sadly, his STABs are pretty much all he's got going for him, so he becomes a complete liability in the face of Rock and Steel types. If you can look past that issue however, you'll have in your hands a powerful and efficient attacker.


    Can I try Fearow as well?

    [​IMG] Fearow:
    Punchshroom (open)
    Fearow has decent Attack and good Speed, which is good news for a sweeper. What sets him apart from the more powerful Dodrio is his ability to actually do something to his counters in Rock and Steel types. U-Turn is a good momentum preserver, whereas Drill Run can do some damage to the aforementioned Rocks and Steels, though it won't do too mch against bulkier pokemon of that type. That's where the good news end unfortunately, as Fearow's strongest Flying STAB in Drill Peck is nigh inferior to any Brave Bird in the tier (even Farfetch'd), and is otherwise outshone by Dodrio. Even then, Fearow is still fast and strong, and is a safer alternative to the 3-headed bird.
  3. Dell

    Dell Hi there!
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    Sorry, I forgot to include Dodrio into B-rank. You may if you'd like to, just make sure that whatever description you want for Dodrio is listed in Hide Boxes.
  4. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    Hey Agent Dell good execution and surprised you were able to come out with so much. Didn't know PU was developed enough to make these viability ranking threads. Anyway there is only one thing I want to add atm. There needs to be at least a slight inclusion of Frillish in this thread. It has Water Absorb which really helps against some rain teams, hard walls Combusken, even with Tauros gone, Frillish definitely maintains viability. Even though there is a lack of good spinners, it can also work as the spinblocker on stall teams as it deals with pretty much every attempt at spinning you see. Overall Frillish maintains viability and deserves either a C-Rank or a D-Rank. It offers a good typing and a water immunity which is very valuable in the meta.
  5. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    I believe Riolu deserves C-Rank. Pretty good 'mon once it starts Copycat + Roaring. It fails to do anything else effectively though and desperately requires hazard support to perform well.

    BTW, great thread Agent Dell! Hopefully this will keep on going even if PU may be removed on the ladder. (Where's the "Lol-Rank" though?)

    Small nitpick, the Kecleon in C-Rank has a Spoink's sprite.
  6. Dell

    Dell Hi there!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnus
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    "LOL-Rank" Was essentially replaced by E-Rank, as it was nothing but an exaggeration. We also wanted it to look as professionally formatted as possible.

    Thanks for letting me know the mistake. I'll fix it.


    Feel free to try out and discuss the 4 Pokemon that I just placed into Untested-Rank.
  7. Qwilphish

    Qwilphish spread the love
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    I would like to nominate Mightyena to C-Rank. It has a niche in PU by being one of the only moxie abusers in the tier. Unlike other Moxie abusers though, Mightyena has access to STAB priority in Sucker Punch allowing for it to pick off things faster than it. Even before boosting, Mightyena has a decent base 90 Attack it can use to dent frailer things.

    However, Mightyena's movepool is very shallow, only having access to the fangs, Crunch, Sucker Punch, and Return, meaning it is walled by many pokemon in the tier. Its speed leaves something to be desired being at a mediocre 70 base, below average for a sweeper in PU. Mightyena is also frail meaning it can be easily picked off by things either faster than it, are resistant to Dark, or have access to a faster priority.

    Mightyena has severe problems which cause for it to be a top tier threat. However, if you underestimate its capabilities, it can easily steamroll through entire teams after it gets its first boost.
  8. Icicle Fissh

    Icicle Fissh

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    I am going to vouch for Mightyena for B-rank. As Qwilphish highlighted, it is one of the only moxie abusers in the tier, and has access to STAB priority in Sucker Punch. I just don't think it gets enough credit for this. It is so easy to pick off a weakened poke and grab a sneaky Moxie boost. Once the Moxie chain has begun, Mightyena's only decent 90 Atk stat becomes scary. I used a LO set, Adamant, meaning Sucker Punch does huge amount of damage to anything that does not resist, and outside of sweeping with Moxie, it is incredibly useful priority for revenging some of the top threats in the tier like Golduck and Rotom-F, dealing 64.56 - 76.49% and 56.43 - 66.8% to offensive variants of them, respectively.

    However, its movepool is pretty barren, as Qwilphish mentioned, and it's stats leave something to be desired, but I just don't think these things releagate it to C-tier. It has hardly ever had to take a hit, if I don't outspeed, I Sucker Punch, unless it won't kill, so I switch. Obviously, I will not be able to switch all the time, even then, it can take a neutral hit from most of the PU mons and do heavy damage to everything that doesn not resist it's STAB or Return.

    Take a look at the B-rank description:

    Reserved for Pokemon who have solid niches in the PU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above them that affect how they function in the tier and how much more support would be required compared to higher-ranked Pokemon to push their use to success. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

    This B-tier description suits Mightyena so well, yes it does have flaws, but they are outshone by it's awesome sweeping capabilities. "But have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C rank often require significant support to be effective in PU. C rank Pokemon typically tends to face a lot of competition with the Pokemon that are ranked higher," does not really apply to Mightyena at all, it is most certainty effective, and it not outclassed by anything at all.
    I think B-rank is perfect for Mightyena.
  9. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    I second a nomination of Mightyena for C tier. While Moxie + Sucker Punch means that it can sweep late-game on a weakened team, it does have some notable flaws that aren't doing it any favors. For starters, without a boost it's not hitting very hard. For example, if we look at the calcs that Icicle Fissh provided you see that Mightyena cannot OHKO notable offensive threats before they can OHKO him in return and stop its sweep (even with Stealth Rock up).

    Another problem for Mightyena is that it can easily be taken on by many Rock types in the tier (gets 3-4HKOs on notable Rock types like Graveler or Relicanth while being 1-2HKOd in return). Also, it faces competition as an offensive Dark type from Sneasel and other Pokemon in the tier, further encroaching on its usefulness.
  10. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Why isn't sandshrew on the list? As one of the few viable rapid spinners in the tier, sandshrew has a major niche in the tier. Its ground typing is a blessing in the rock infested tier and it can do some damage to the rock types with EQ. I feel that its a C/B-rank pokemon.

    I'll explain more later since I don't have time right now.
  11. OneMightyparasect

    OneMightyparasect

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    (yay, First Post!)

    Throh, tentacool and Luxray also seem to be missing from the list.
  12. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Most of the NFEs were not placed in the rankings because we wanted discussion among PU players to rank them. Most NFEs are not actually viable, but there are still many that have niches that will fit right in. If you guys find one that you feel should be placed in a rank, then simply post and we will discuss it. Also:

    Like the other Viability Rankings, we should not use the definitions as an argument for whether a Pokemon deserves to be a certain rank or not. There are plenty of other arguments one can make to convince everyone, if everyone just looked deeper. Also, many of the Pokemon on the list currently are untested, and thus were simply placed in their rankings based on what we felt was right. If you have experience using them, you can easily argue for a rise or drop in ranking.

    Edit: How odd, Throh and Luxray should have been ranked. Tentacool was not discussed, since we were leaving NFEs open to discussion because it is hard to decide what NFEs are viable or not without playtesting every single one of them. You will still have to back everything up with information, but Tentacool should definitely get a ranking just on the basis that it is a usable Rapid Spinner.
  13. Anty

    Anty Kiss-My-Anthia
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    I am nominating unfezant for C-rank, or at least D-rank. it has one of the best support move pools in the game, it has wish, morning sun, taunt, toxic, feather dance, hypnosis, tailwind and even psych up. it also has a great base attack (105) even uninvested hits do a lot. The only bad thing is it is hard to run offensive due to lack of brave bird.

    I also think wormadam-t should be B-rank. it has one of the best defensive typings in the game and a great ability showing if the enemy has a fire attack. it also is my favourite toxic stall thanks to a lack of common weakness. It doesn't get reliable recovery but other wise it is a greg wall.

    Marshtomp is very good, i used him in early stages of BW2 before he had been discovered and i think he should defiantly be D-rank but even C-rank. I like using max attack max Hp with waterfall, Eq, superpower and ice punch. it is a creative move set but it can still tank hits with eviolite and hit super hard with great coverage.

    Also i'd like to nominate a not used pokemon for D-rank, bronzer. He has an amazing defensive typing and excellent bulk with eviolite allowing him to sponge up hits for days. It can also toxic stall but unfortunately not recover back damage.
  14. OneMightyparasect

    OneMightyparasect

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    Nominating Trapinch for C-Rank: I've used him on trick room teams and have found that he can work quite well as a revenge killer. His dependency on trick room to be able to revenge kill kinda limits his effectivness though
  15. Dell

    Dell Hi there!
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    Alrighty, time for another round of updates:


    Impressive start with the thread so far everyone! Keep it coming with discussion.
  16. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Just responding to a few of the nominations:

    While Wormadon-T's typing can be useful, its poor offenses mean that it is setup bait for many offensive Pokemon in the tier, which can be deadly against many of the offensive threats of the tier such as Golduck and Combusken. Despite that, its typing is still useful, so C Rank is fine for it.

    Unfezant's 105 Attack state is neutered by its lack of good Flying STAB, which means that it is outclassed by Dodrio and Fearow in offensive sets. Also, its support sets usually aren't able to accomplish everything they'd like, and are left vulnerable to something based on what you choose due to its 4MSS. Also, a weakness to Stealth Rock hinders the support it can give a team. However, it does have a few niches as a support mon such as a good speed and nice support options, so D tier is a pretty good place for it.

    Trapinch isn't a very good revenge killer due to its terrible speed as you noted as well as its poor defenses. Also, its typing leaves it open to many common types such as Water and Grass. It really is more of an E tier mon since it needs so much support to be effective (Trick Room or some other form of Speed control, entry hazards, etc.) and it doesn't even have the niche of beating any really important mons like it did in NU (being able to trap and KO Skuntank) so although Arena Trap might make it seem like it retains a niche, in reality it isn't very usable.
  17. OneMightyparasect

    OneMightyparasect

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    Wormadam-T: Mawile has alot of things over it (Better abilities,semi-reliable recovery, Baton pass, usable attack) and while it certently has its niches over it (being able to take special attacks better) I don't think it deserves more than a D-rank.
  18. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Mightyena

    On the subject of Mightyena, I've been using it extensively. Just a note, it has the most powerful priority in the tier. If it had Pursuit, we'd have our own Skuntank. It can deal massive damage to all of the attackers in S-Rank, and most setup sweepers aren't raising their defenses. If it has a Moxie boost, it OHKOs all of them with Sucker Punch. (Fraxure with the help of Stealth Rock.)

    I've gotten Mightyena a revenge kill early in a match and gotten six kills in a row against some teams. He has the bulk to take a random priority attack or two (Sneasel's Ice Shard, Basculin's Aqua Jet) and keep on rolling.

    Sneasel is completely different. Sneasel revenge kills something once, and then it runs away. Its only powerful Dark move is Pursuit. Otherwise, you're stuck with Faint Attack. It might have higher attack than Mightyena, but its movepool is utter garbage. Not only that, but Mightyena turns into a huge threat if you get an easy revenge kill. If we're letting Linoone be A-Rank for its unreliable-but-powerful strategy, we can let Mightyena be B-Rank for a somewhat more reliable but somewhat less powerful strategy.

    I'd agree here. Mightyena has its own niche; nothing else in the tier does what it does. He doesn't even need a whole lot of support, except perhaps something else that can absorb fast status moves. (Jumpluff's sleep powder, for example.)

    Mightyena for B-Rank.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And now for Throh. The standard Bulk Up set can work alright in the tier, but I've done some math that lets Throh be the ultimate counter to any physical attacker.

    [​IMG]

    Throh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
    -Bulk Up
    -Circle Throw
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk

    This guy is seriously bulky. Literally the only physical attackers that can 2HKO him are CB Rampardos, CB Fraxure, and Guts Ursaring. (And that one only after it's in long enough for the orb to activate.)

    Choice Scarf Rampardos can only 3HKO with Zen Headbutt, and Head Smash is a 4HKO. Fraxure's Outrage is a 3HKO. CB Kingler's Crabhammer is a 3HKO. If Throh uses Bulk Up when facing Gigalith, even an Earthquake->Explosion combo won't 2HKO.

    With one Bulk Up, literally no physical attacker can 2HKO him reliably. (Guts Ursaring comes very close with Facade.) Even better, Throh is no slouch offensively. He has base 100 attack, Guts to boost his attack while he sleeps, and Bulk Up to skyrocket that further. With the lack of very good ghosts in the tier, Throh's mono-attacking set does pretty well. The enemy has a hard time switching to a counter when whatever lands will eat a Circle Throw and be forced right back out.

    He has some problems against powerful special attackers like Swoobat and Beheeyem, but with some team support to remove such threats, Throh can practically guarantee a set-up sweep when the enemy's special attackers are worn down or dead.

    As in most tiers, a good portion of PU is physically-oriented. Throh can sweep that portion, wall that portion, and support any teammates that want that portion out of the picture.

    I support Throh for A-Rank.
  19. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    You do realize you left out physical Flying-types in Dodrio, Fearow and Jumpluff out of your equation, right?
  20. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
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    Mightyena does not have the most powerful priority in the tier, as Shiftry has Sucker Punch as well as a higher Attack stat. Speaking of Shiftry, it is another Dark type Pokemon that gives Mightyena competition for a slot, since while Mightyena can use Moxie to boost its Attack, Shiftry can simply use Swords Dance. Also, its Grass-type STAB and access to Nature Power let it beat the aforementioned Rock and Steel types that can take on Mightyena. Also, thanks to its higher Special Attack, it can potentially used a mixed set to get past its counters and remove them, an option not open to Mightyena. It also has a better Speed stat than Shiftry does, which helps it out more when sweeping, so while Sneasel might serve a different purpose than Mightyena, it still finds its niche encroached on by other Darks in the tier, which is why I maintain that it should be C tier.
  21. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Jumpluff can't 2HKO if Throh uses Bulk Up or Rest on the first turn, and its subs are broken if Throh is asleep. If Throh has any boosts at all, Jumpluff can't make subs and it can't 2HKO.

    Fearow can 2HKO, but not if Throh has any boosts at all.

    I'll grant you that CB Dodrio is a threat with Brave Bird, but will lose more than half of its health if it manages to OHKO Throh from full health. If Throh already had one boost when Dodrio comes in, though, it can be Circle Thrown right back out. It takes +2 defense for Throh to make Brave Bird a 3HKO, though.

    It's incredibly easy to get to +1 or +2 with the guy. If you predict the enemy's switching to a Throh counter, you can just throw it out again. Fearow and Dodrio can't survive that kind of punishment for long.

    EDIT: I'll also add that Throh can take a +6 Extremespeed from Linoone and throw it out, even unboosted.

    Aha! So it's not the most powerful, but it's a pretty close second. Swords Dance is nothing like Moxie. Swords Dance doesn't let you attack while you boost: it leaves Shiftry open to being KO'd before it can make use of its new power. With Mightyena, you can kill something before it kills you and still get a boost.

    Take a weakened Rotom-F, for an example foe. It's not uncommon: rocks are everywhere, and it switches in and out all the time with Volt Switch. Shiftry will die to Blizzard if it decides to use Swords Dance. If it uses Sucker Punch to get the KO, it does what Mightyena could have done, but without boosting. Mightyena can kill it while raising its attack. Raising its attack lets it deal more damage to the next target, which lets it raise its attack even more. Shiftry might pull off a sweep if it can get an easy SD boost, but Mightyena can snowball without having a free setup turn.
  22. saucemonkey1

    saucemonkey1

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    Throh is pretty damn good in PU. Its Defense is amazing, and its HP is pretty good too, and with a single Bulk Up it can take a hit from every single Physical Attacker and survive as long as it's at close to full health. I've been using it pretty extensively now, and even the weaker Special Attackers can't KO it at even half health. With just one boost under its belt it can pretty much just LOLthrow everything around, and with rocks it's a pretty good combination. Just keep Throh in mind when building a team, as you aren't going to want to be unprepared for when Throh makes his appearance and starts making you want to tear your hair out. I'd give it an S rank, honestly, but I know I haven't really given enough info right now to justify that so I'll just let you all know that I'll be back with a more in depth explanation as to why Throh is probably going to be the Sawk of PU. How fitting, right?
  23. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    I've been playing around with PU for a minute now and would like to nominate a mon really quick (I may edit my post later, but Chrome is being dumb on my iPad, so calcing and posting at the same time is problematic.)

    For starters, I decided to test one of my personal favorite Pokémon:

    [​IMG]
    Parasect

    I'm gonna be blunt here: Parasect is pretty unremarkable, even in PU. Looking at it, it seems to have quite a bit going for it: It x4 resists Earthquake, has access to Spore, and can switch in to the ever common Scarf Golduck if it decided to be real and fire off of a Hydro PimpPump, then proceed to set up some Leech Seeds and put something to sleep. Unfortunately, he dies pretty easily due to its poor speed, x4 weakness to Flying- (this is an issue with Choiced Fearow and Dodrio running around), x5 weakness to Fire- (aka Rapidash destroys it), and vulnerability to Stealth Rock. All in all, he's not all that great and needs quite a bit of team support to be effective.

    What is notable, however, is that he is one of the only (if not the only) Pokémon in the tier with access to Spore and Leech Seed, making him a very capable pseudo-shuffler on defensive teams. He also carries handy resistances to Electric-, Water-, and Ground-, all of which are types that stall and more bulky offensive teams much appreciate having covered. Access to Aromatherapy is also nice, allowing Parasect to act as a cleric. A decent Attack stat allows it to run Swords Dance if you feel ballsy, but it's really not good, as mons like Leafeon severely outclass it. He specifically makes a damn good counter to DD Whiscash, which is fairly notable in the meta as a setup sweeper, being immune and x4 resistant to its STABs and being able to severely dent it with a Seed Bomb or a Bullet Seed to break its Sub. All in all, I say Parasect is a C-Rank mon, capable of supporting his team with status (note, once per game, since it'll probably die) and annoying foes with Leech Seed, and being able to check a threatening mon in Whiscash, as well as mons like Marshtomp.
  24. Qwilphish

    Qwilphish spread the love
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    Im going to nominate Luxray for A Rank. I know some of you guys are going to call me crazy for this, however the versatility of Luxray's sets are what really make it an A-rank mon for me.

    It has two excellent abilities which allow for it to play in two completely different sets. With Intimidate it allows for it to be surprisingly bulk on both side of the spectrums if you run Sp. Def investment which allows for it to check many special attackers. With Guts, it can be a fearsome attacker with an already high attack and the fact that its STAB alone allows for it to check the many water and flying types in the tier.

    Its speed while good, is below average and will often have to take a hit when hitting things it wants to kill. Also, ground types are a reliable way to check it, however every pokemon has its counters so it isn't the biggest deal. But its surprisingly good coverage, and its ability to check many threats in the tier warrants its placement in A-rank.

    EDIT: @Parasect- D-Rank is where it is and that is where it should be, it's only niche is firing off spores which is terribly hard to do considering its multitude of weaknesses and overall frailmess. Mantine outclasses it on all of the defensive points that were made except for that it is more reliable and has a better defensive typing.
  25. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Throh will not be the Sawk of PU. Sawk is fast, frail, and hits hard from the get go. Throh is more like a fusion of Braviary and Alomomola, plus phazing and scaled down for PU. Throh is darn good in this meta, but he's not Sawk. (Though I guess both can break walls, just in different ways.)

    On the subject of Luxray, I'd agree with A-Rank. I've seen the Scarf, Band, and Guts sets all in equal measure, and they're all fantastic. Luxray's versatile enough to keep one guessing. Its low speed (or low hitting power with Scarf) can let it down at times, but it's at least as good as Rapidash.

    People are saying that Golduck's base 85 is the speed to build the meta around, but base 70 seems pretty pivotal. Luxray, Mantine, Mightyena, Butterfree, and Victreebel are all at that, and many other threats are nearby. Fraxure at 67, Glaceon at 65, et cetera. 85 is important, but I think that's the midline to see whether a Pokemon is 'fast' or 'slow' here. (Like 85 is/was in NU, or 108 is in OU.)
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