The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen OU Metagame [VOTING OVER]

[Schpoonman]

Said while supporting a pokemon that was only relevant for a short period of time in BW2.

Voting for Ferrothorn

You misunderstand what I'm arguing. The entire time Genesect was legal in OU, the metagame revolved around him. 100% of the time he was in the metagame, despite his short-term stay. Terrakion was a threat in BW1 and then fell off the radar virtually entirely in BW2. He was still OU but his influence was gone. Even in BW1, he was merely a top threat, he didn't demand you carry Shed Shell Heatran or lose.

The way some people are talking we should apparently not consider any banned Pokemon at all because once they were banned their influence was obviously gone. That argument doesn't make any sense to me when we had Pokemon like Excadrill who redefined speed and power in a single Pokemon and Deoxys-S who pretty much single-handedly made Hyper Offense the best playstyle during his stint in OU, and even though these Pokemon are gone we still make comparisons to them to this day.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Once again Dragonite. You arent going anywhere without a solid plan for this thing. It defines the necessity of keeping sr on the opponent field. Scarf terrakion, scarf keldeo and scarf latios are often used because they revenge kill adamant dnite after two boosts. Many things run ice moves just to prevent it from setup. Its the only pokemon that can claim to get a free boost and will often get a second one. Dragonite defines this offensive metagame with its power.

 

[Spinda]

Terrakion is still the 4th most threatening poke in OU even in BW2 so I wouldn't say his influence is gone..
Honestly though, the duration that a pokemon was influential for should be heavily considered, even if it's because they got banned.. Genesect is #3 to me anyways ( despite voting ninetales, but it's because Ttar didn't make top 3 in my list ) because just how heavy his influence was.

Lol @ "Deoxys-S who pretty much single-handedly made Hyper Offense the best playstyle during his stint in OU." though.

 

[Sam]

What effect did Gengar have on the metagame?
Gengar had a bit of a strange effect on the metagame. To me, the only real defined role it has is a spin-blocker on offensive teams. There's so much more beyond it, though. Gengar was, quite frankly, a bitch to handle at most times. It made offense a bit more viable because it offered key immunities to 2 very popular types (and normal for rapid spin) while still being able to keep offensive momentum too. Gengar always had to be accounted for when making a team.

In what main roles was Gengar used?
I think it was in the viability ranking thread a while back where someone had described Gengar as an 'offensive disruptor', which I think is the perfect description. What I mean by that is, Gengar just really messes with teams. I don't know how else to describe it, and I know it isn't a very good description, but if you've played OU enough you know what I mean.

On top of that though, as I said in the first paragraph, Gengar is an excellent offensive spin blocker. One of my favorite sets to run on custap offense (which was also popular on DeoGar teams) is the focus sash destiny bond set. On most teams it is almost guaranteed a spin block, or at the very least multiple switches with a bunch of hazards up.

What caused it to have a significant impact?
For the most part, Gengar's typing is what allowed it to have the most success. It's not hard to see why that is the case. However, it's movepool can also be attributed for it's impact as well. Gengar behind a substitute is a terrible, terrible sight because of the capabilities it has. It could dish out two hits with perfect neutral coverage between Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, or screw over choice users and walls with Sub + Disable. Not to mention, again, the fact that it's the only viable offensive spin blocker in OU.

How do you deal with Gengar?
Dealing with Gengar itself is a bit tricky. Specially defensive Jirachi could usually deal with Gengar, though if Iron head was its only attacking move then SubDisable sets screwed it over. If Gengar lacks HP Fire, Scizor could play mind games of its own with Bullet Punch and Pursuit. With Gengar's frailty, most strong STAB attacks could take it out, so it's fairly prone to revenge killing if it isn't behind a substitute.

(NOTE: This is not me voting for Gengar for #3)

 

[Monte Cristo]

Ferrothorn has really been a big face for grass types defensive wise while venusaur offensive wise, overall gen 5 was basically ferrothorn's sandbox until keldeo came along, but I would say it's more useful than well, a top 3 titan, I would rather have something like garchomp, which made playing offense 10x easier, and playing against dragon spam so much easier, and overall just defined the OU sand post exca era until it got banned, then sand veil got banned and chomp was brought down it then defined what a truly SOLID pokemon is, we wouldn't have half of our meta knowledge without chomp, admit it, we all know how badass and awesome chomp was BW1 AND BW2, without it we'd still be using shit like haxorus, it truly fits in as a titan, but I think I'll vote for it to be #4

But #3 really has to go to the worst weather starter, but bringing the best damn weather out there, Ninetales, it made entire playstyles basically, and OU sun is basically a threat to any team when played properly, I've used sun throughout pretty much all of BW, and I've got to say, it's such a unprepared for and unappreciated threatening playstyle, from lando-t sun stall to sawsbuck sun offense, sun has been so damn defining of what a true threatening and GOOD playstyle throughout BW and BW2, admit it or not, sun teams takes thought, that's why you don't see them as often as keldeo rain teams or some dumbass thoughtless stuff, but they are, truly king. *on a note: if we are being serious, terrakion and genesect deserve honerable mentions, but not top 10, it wasn't really metagame defining and a titan as much as everybody makes it out to be, sure it broke 50% usage, but when it got the ban hammer everything got back to normal, if this wasn't true, latios and garchomp wouldn't be so high on the usage stats etc., liek the people previous to me said, it basically has the effect of taking kyogre and plopping it into OU, sure it might break 50 or 60% usage, but who gives a crap, it's going to get banned and have 0 after effect whatsover 2 weeks later*

Also, a little thing Lord of Bays , deo-S made an IMPACT into OU, genesect just made everything better for a month or two, he didn't overly define anything, he was just that one really good thing everybody used, he wasn't really broken in the handbook defenition, he was just too good to pass up, he didn't do his role too well, he just simply preformed it well on a variety of teams, unlike other pokemon like exca and deo-S, garchomp and BLAZIKEN who made 1 playstyle too hard to manage or did their job way too damn well, genesect didn't obliterate stall, heck, back in gene era, uturning would get your pokemon's ass killed by something obscure such as counter chansey, which btw wasn't because of gene, it was because of some old theorymon that made reality, it existed pre gene to handle uturns and superpowers and shit. while something like exca obliterated choice scarfes and did it's job as an SD sweeper, way too well.

 

[UltiMario]

This thread is giving Genesect more credit than it's worth.


As much as I hate to put 3 weather starters as the top 3 titans Ninetales really does deserve the spot. It finishes the trio for the Pokemon that have the most influence on the metagame. Sun forces teams to run the strangest checks and counters that other archetypes don't force. It allows stuff like Venusaur to run rampant and require very specific checks to beat, and other more obscure sweepers like Sawsbuck can still mow over teams if they don't have something to directly deal with it. Sun has allowed other threats like Dugtrio and Donphan to raise to OU over their utility to deal with issues that Sun has, and overall Ninetales has an impact on the metagame in a way that nearly equals and in some ways surpasses Politoed and Tyranitar. That's just not something anything else in OU's history can claim.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

You misunderstand what I'm arguing. The entire time Genesect was legal in OU, the metagame revolved around him. 100% of the time he was in the metagame, despite his short-term stay. Terrakion was a threat in BW1 and then fell off the radar virtually entirely in BW2. He was still OU but his influence was gone. Even in BW1, he was merely a top threat, he didn't demand you carry Shed Shell Heatran or lose.

The way some people are talking we should apparently not consider any banned Pokemon at all because once they were banned their influence was obviously gone. That argument doesn't make any sense to me when we had Pokemon like Excadrill who redefined speed and power in a single Pokemon and Deoxys-S who pretty much single-handedly made Hyper Offense the best playstyle during his stint in OU, and even though these Pokemon are gone we still make comparisons to them to this day.

I get it, Genesect WAS the metagame. For what was it, 4 months? I'm not saying at all that banned pokemon SHOULDN'T be included, I'm saying that they shouldn't be included when there are still more influential pokemon that aren't ranked yet like Ninetales or Ferrothorn that impacted the tier throughout the whole of the metagame. If this was a voting for early BW2 titans, Genesect would easily be #1, sure but it's about the whole generation. Genesect was the entire metagame for 5% of the time, and the other 95% of the time he was irrelevant.

 

[youngjake93]

Ferrothorn, read why Genesect is not so amazing and how Ferrothorn is a staple.

Ferrothorn is an obvious #2. Defensive mons have been edging closer to extinction and yet Ferrothorn stays right near or at the top of usage through ALL of gen 5. It is such a defining force that HP Grass, Ice and Electric of Gen 4 is mostly replaced by HP Fire to avoid being straight walled. Between Thunder Wave, Gyro Ball and Leech Seed Ferrothorn is unique from most walls in that it can screw over set up sweepers. Its typing, utility and bulk makes it a more common spike stacker than exceptional choices such as Skarmory and Forretress. Ferrothorn doesn't even have Taunt/Phazing or Rapid Spin and it is still more common. Speaking of Rapid Spin, its ability might seem worthless on sweepers, but Ferrothorn can manage to pseudo spinblock against things like Starmie and Donphan.

Now onto why Genesect, the popular choice, isn't quite #2. Genesect's biggest draw was how low the opportunity cost was to slap it on any team, not how meta defining or great it was. It only has one weakness and it can spam a powerful fast u-turn with a scarf. That's mostly what it did... U-Turn A LOT. Sure, some people used it for its RP sweeping potential, but the 50% usage stat is a gross misrepresentation. 80% of the time it was Scarf Genesect being used pretty poorly. You could bait it into being locked into resisted Ice Beam or stay in on a U-Turn and 2hko the switch in with a coverage move.

The only teams I found that were using Genesect very well were people who were to the point that they could use Rattata and make it through the ladder. So, although Genesect is very good and easy to fit on a team, I feel that even something such as Venusaur or Dragonite was a more consistent threat mainly just due to the learning curve difference.

Ferrothorn has usage, length at top spots, how good it is and consistency. Genesect just had how good it was and usage. I feel all four factors should play a part regardless of how extreme the usage was.

 

[dwarfstar]

Voting Ninetales. Pretty much everything that I was going to say has already been said.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Voting Ferrothorn.

 

[Stone RG]

I get it, Genesect WAS the metagame. For what was it, 4 months? I'm not saying at all that banned pokemon SHOULDN'T be included, I'm saying that they shouldn't be included when there are still more influential pokemon that aren't ranked yet like Ninetales or Ferrothorn that impacted the tier throughout the whole of the metagame. If this was a voting for early BW2 titans, Genesect would easily be #1, sure but it's about the whole generation. Genesect was the entire metagame for 5% of the time, and the other 95% of the time he was irrelevant.

This enraged me more than it shoudve.

Genesect redefined the word ''offense'' when it comes to the OU metagame. The entirety of walls that were viable prior to genesect's release became obsolete, bar for heatran, who, as i have said, was addapted to by a lot of playstyles, who used dugtrio or a variety of lues to get ird of it. Shed Shell Heatran, who we know is a horrible set given its lack of recovery bar for the unreliable resttalk. Genesect ruled the metagame with an iron fist even worse than politoed or tyranitar did at the time, but i guess both of them deserve the first spots because they released the power of terrifying sweepers such as SV chomp, Excadril or Rest Manaphy and Tornadus-T.

If you wanted to run a team in early BW2, you either ran genesect or you had to be prepared for 90% of the (good) ladder players to have an automatic win condition, stall was nigh unplayable. As for the comparison with ferro and ninetales; the former was laughed at by the offense and momentum genesect brought, i guess that isnt the main point but a poke whose use is in a very large way due to offense, which genesect enabled even more, isnt worth even the top 10 in my book; ninetales, yea its a more passable since its use isnt due to the popularity of other playstyles, but if there's something we have understood of this metagame is that sun needs a lot of support and thinking to play well, you cant just throw in the standard volt-turn combo like you can with sand (late BW) or throw in an equivalent to Tornadus-T with rain, there's a reason the playstyle created by ninetales is a less worrysome, due to the effort needed to run a decent team with it.

TL;DR: Ferro's use is to counter more ''titanic'' pokes; Ninetales needs more support than others to make its playstyle viable; Genesect is the face of offense in early BW2 and made stall almost unplayab;e.

 

[Monte Cristo]

This enraged me more than it shoudve.

Genesect redefined the word ''offense'' when it comes to the OU metagame. The entirety of walls that were viable prior to genesect's release became obsolete, bar for heatran, who, as i have said, was addapted to by a lot of playstyles, who used dugtrio or a variety of lues to get ird of it. Shed Shell Heatran, who we know is a horrible set given its lack of recovery bar for the unreliable resttalk. Genesect ruled the metagame with an iron fist even worse than politoed or tyranitar did at the time, but i guess both of them deserve the first spots because they released the power of terrifying sweepers such as SV chomp, Excadril or Rest Manaphy and Tornadus-T.

If you wanted to run a team in early BW2, you either ran genesect or you had to be prepared for 90% of the (good) ladder players to have an automatic win condition, stall was nigh unplayable. As for the comparison with ferro and ninetales; the former was laughed at by the offense and momentum genesect brought, i guess that isnt the main point but a poke whose use is in a very large way due to offense, which genesect enabled even more, isnt worth even the top 10 in my book; ninetales, yea its a more passable since its use isnt due to the popularity of other playstyles, but if there's something we have understood of this metagame is that sun needs a lot of support and thinking to play well, you cant just throw in the standard volt-turn combo like you can with sand (late BW) or throw in an equivalent to Tornadus-T with rain, there's a reason the playstyle created by ninetales is a less worrysome, due to the effort needed to run a decent team with it.

TL;DR: Ferro's use is to counter more ''titanic'' pokes; Ninetales needs more support than others to make its playstyle viable; Genesect is the face of offense in early BW2 and made stall almost unplayab;e.

Just want to point out that your exaggerating how good this thing really was, I played gene meta, wasn't nearly as bad as blaziken or exca meta, infact why the fuck is excadrill NOT #1? that shit was the most destructive thing in OU at that time, it literally forced people to run CB infernape mach punch + scarf deoS superpower + spikes in order to beat it, seriously, that thing is more deserving of #1 than anything else, OU was literally it's sandbox. back to gene, gene meta was more of eh I'll run gene or I won't and I get a free slot to get something else on my team for me, my teams were never threatened by it frankly, it was just fun to see people trying to LO tbolt my ninetales thinking it was offensive only for me to live and flamethrower death it. also, if your thinking inetales needs support, your doing it wrong, also stall was very playable, what kind of drug are you on? jkjk, seriously, gene did not stop stall, BW2 stopped stall, BW2 introduced so much shit like NP thundy-t and SD technician breloom that stall kind of just, well, died out and lost, gene was not even the reason why, hell fucking specs keldeo contributed more to the drop of stall.

Ninetales itself isn't the reason why we're nominating it, what's most important is the weather it brings, trying to say ninetales needs support is a 100% bullshit argument, you don't even need a spinner on sun, it's just something sun commonly uses because sun has so much free slots because of how versitile it overall can be.

 

[Stone RG]

Just want to point out that your exaggerating how good this thing really was, I played gene meta, wasn't nearly as bad as blaziken or exca meta, infact why the fuck is excadrill NOT #1? that shit was the most destructive thing in OU at that time, it literally forced people to run CB infernape mach punch + scarf deoS superpower + spikes in order to beat it, seriously, that thing is more deserving of #1 than anything else, OU was literally it's sandbox. back to gene, gene meta was more of eh I'll run gene or I won't and I get a free slot to get something else on my team for me, my teams were never threatened by it frankly, it was just fun to see people trying to LO tbolt my ninetales thinking it was offensive only for me to live and flamethrower death it. also, if your thinking inetales needs support, your doing it wrong, also stall was very playable, what kind of drug are you on? jkjk, seriously, gene did not stop stall, BW2 stopped stall, BW2 introduced so much shit like NP thundy-t and SD technician breloom that stall kind of just, well, died out and lost, gene was not even the reason why, hell fucking specs keldeo contributed more to the drop of stall.

Ninetales itself isn't the reason why we're nominating it, what's most important is the weather it brings, trying to say ninetales needs support is a 100% bullshit argument, you don't even need a spinner on sun, it's just something sun commonly uses because sun has so much free slots because of how versitile it overall can be.

Oh ik full well why ninetales is being nominated, the same reason poli was #1, the difference id that the impact caused by rain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. sun, in every aspect.

As for the genesect and excadrill analogy, that's a falacy: excadrill NEEDS sand in ou to be considered a threat to be prepared for like it was in mid BW, therefore its impact is directly proportional to that of the sand setters: tyranitar and hippowdon, if not, id have nominated crap like kingdra or tornadus-T a long time ago, who, while they were entirely dependant on rain being up, they were top tier threats, but kingdra is past the cutoff so whatevs on that.

Genesect fitted in anything, hell, even full/semi stall, which benefitted from its ability to provoke switches at every moment. It isnt like ''either i use it or i dont and ill get a free slot'', it was much more than that: genesect could be the glue or central part of a core for every team, better than most of other pokes at it.

Forgot to mention that, 5% doesnt matter, at all, its the actual impact it had on the metagame, which from now on ill call genesect's bitch for the lolz.

Note: this is not supposed to be an aggresive response, its supposed to argue why genesect isnt dependant on ANY team members and why the time of presence doesnt affect the impact itself by the corresponding poke.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Oh ik full well why ninetales is being nominated, the same reason poli was #1, the difference is that the impact caused by rain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. sun, in every aspect.

You cannot argue the best weather in OU is worse than the most used, quite frankly I find rain terrible, not in the sense that it's bad, but it takes 0 thought, and could lose to any good player who knows what he's doing (note: I know not all rain teams are mindless, but most of them are, gary and hay's RMT feast of the bullfrogs is an example of a half decently thought out rain team). But then again, you could argue that the impact is greater in this situation, not the viability, well at the same time, sun impated weatherless so much to the point where people are running 116 HP latias everywhere just to deal with sludge bomb venusaur, while latias is amazing alone, it definatly should not be using up that much HP investment unless it's trying to check something, which is venusaur. with rain the impact is much more subtle, people just happen to have those checks on their teams, they don't NEED to change their latias's HP investment or anything just to deal with rain like it sometimes does for sun, sun and rain's impact on the metagame itself are not equal, but lets be serious, the only thing rain changed was what weather people play more, it more of created it's own type of playstyle rather than force other playstyles to adapt

also, genesect really is being exaggerated, it's not nearly as good as people are painting it to be, it's just mindless momentum spam, for fucks sake uturn was more of a titan than genesect really was, come on, :sarcasm:lets nominate uturn gais:sarcasm:

 

[Stone RG]

You cannot argue the best weather in OU is worse than the most used, quite frankly I find rain terrible, not in the sense that it's bad, but it takes 0 thought, and could lose to any good player who knows what he's doing (note: I know not all rain teams are mindless, but most of them are, gary and hay's RMT feast of the bullfrogs is an example of a half decently thought out rain team). But then again, you could argue that the impact is greater in this situation, not the viability, well at the same time, sun impated weatherless so much to the point where people are running 116 HP latias everywhere just to deal with sludge bomb venusaur, while latias is amazing alone, it definatly should not be using up that much HP investment unless it's trying to check something, which is venusaur. with rain the impact is much more subtle, people just happen to have those checks on their teams, they don't NEED to change their latias's HP investment or anything just to deal with rain like it sometimes does for sun, sun and rain's impact on the metagame itself are not equal, but lets be serious, the only thing rain changed was what weather people play more, it more of created it's own type of playstyle rather than force other playstyles to adapt

also, genesect really is being exaggerated, it's not nearly as good as people are painting it to be, it's just mindless momentum spam, for fucks sake uturn was more of a titan than genesect really was, come on, :sarcasm:lets nominate uturn gais:sarcasm:

Hell man, ill nominate U-turn for suspect any day, its on par with rocks on useful moves imo. On the rain comment, yes, most rain teams are mindless and C/P of the same, but the point is just that: most are good that way, because the weather is so damn broken that way.

Saying Latias is forced 116 HP EVs to deal with sun better is, well, stretching the argument, a lot, but going that way, genesect forced half the meta to run from 8 to 56 SpD EVs just not to give him the SpA boost.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Eh, nominating Genesect.

I don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said. Genesect was the king of the OU metagame, and received over 50% usage during it's stint in the tier. It was extremely versatile and could fit into any team.

Sorry this isn't much, but there isn't anything else to say really.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Rain broke so many things and made so many things ou viable that you cant even compare it to sun. Tornadus-t would never be anywhere close to uber if it wasnt for permanent rain. Swift swimmers would never be complex banned. Manaphy would hardly be banned since it would have to deal with other weathers. Tentacruel, toxicroak, tornadus-i, feraligatr among others would never ever be considered viable in ou if it wasnt for rain. To this day many are in favor of suspecting drizzle due to how powerful it is. Hurricane, thunder and hydro pump spam along with rain dish and hydration shenanigans make it such a diverse and strong archetype that the entire metagame ended up being shaped by it. But with sun you have the same boring teams all the time since most of sun abusers are downright terrible and there is frankly little diversity. Fire types spamming stab moves or clorophyl users is pretty much all you got. Sun did had an impact but its nowhere near close to what rain did. That said i do not feel ninetales should be #3, nor anywhere even close to that.

 

[Schpoonman]

Think of it this way: Darmanitan and Victini, who hit harder than every OU Pokemon in neutral weather besides Kyurem-B, are UU. Because their STAB is halved in the rain.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Hell man, ill nominate U-turn for suspect any day, its on par with rocks on useful moves imo. On the rain comment, yes, most rain teams are mindless and C/P of the same, but the point is just that: most are good that way, because the weather is so damn broken that way.

Saying Latias is forced 116 HP EVs to deal with sun better is, well, stretching the argument, a lot, but going that way, genesect forced half the meta to run from 8 to 56 SpD EVs just not to give him the SpA boost.

Most pokemon who were scared of gene already ran 8 to whatever stat EVs to make their HP an odd number so they can switch into SR more times, gene jsut gave them a specific stat to put those EVs into, also I never said latias is FORCED to, I said most good latias players run it when using weatherless, because it's usually their best answer to sun, considering there aren't TOO much of these that you can simply slap onto weather less and call ti a day, LO latias really was forced to run 112+ HP EVs against sun when used in any weather though, not beating sun means you have to use up another slot to have a heatran on your team, which just wrecks your offensive synergy and defensive synergy sometimes.

ALSO @ "Rain broke so many things and made so many things ou viable that you cant even compare it to sun." from Smash, I already know most of you here have barely played OU sun, since well, most of you guys are people who mostly follow trends and standard things for the most part, and sun is hardly seen as either of them, so I'll forgive you guys on that assumption, but come on, sun is the best weather in OU, I know other people would definitely agree with this, so much threats packed into one, there's a reason why sun was banned before any other weather in every lower tier, but whatever. The main thing about sun is, there's so much cloro mons and fire mons that are all so diverse, and a lto of things can just fit into sun because of their utillity, making sun so damn versitile, while rain is usually forced to run toed/hydro spammer 1/hydro spammer 2/physical attacker filler/ thunder spammer/ filler because unless your using the vocal point of rain: which is the powerfull as hydro pumps combined with other 100% accuracy moves, then your often better off running weatherless so you can actually use other threats that don't do as well in rain but overall are amazing. Sun made so much lower tier pokemon viable it's not even funny, so saying rain made more stuff viable is BS, if it weren't for usage we wouldn't have it so that the thought of everybody on this damned website is "way too dependant on rain = awesome, way too dependant on sun= terrible should be NU" which btw, is such an idiotic way of thinkign that it makes me want to jump off a cliff, when did you hear about sawskbuck or venusaur or even victreebel sweeping your OU team without sun? never, where did you here about keldeo and starmie sweeping your OU team without rain? keldeo p. much everywhere, starmie here and there, etc. Sun is so damned good but underappreciated in this meta, come on guys, don't let usage brainwash you.

Also Lord of Bays don't be that one guy who uses usage for arguments *tiers are based on usage, not viability, get that through your head guys* (victini actually made the cutoff for OU a lot but it was never when it really mattered to getting into OU anyway so you might as well stop talking about that), victini and darmanitan are not even a quarter of the vocal point of sun, it's big moth and chloro sweepers, also, arcanine and co. have been really effective for me recently, but overall, sun is jsut effective, and usage reflects poorly, you wanna know why? because 88% of OU players want something that doesn't think thinking but will still let them win the majority of the time, that's why sun doesn't get as much praise as it should, because standard sun is overplayed and all of the good sun players have really quit OU or fleed to lower tiers because of the stupid ass not true "rain > sun" way of thinking, so all we really have is noobs trying to use outdated standard sun teams, and realizing that their not even using latias or any other utillity mon, come on guys, latias has to be one of the best pokes in sun, it offeres so much tillity for sun it's not even funny, I think latias itself does as much work as my sun sweepers which is a crazy though in itself.

tl;dr: sun is good, msot of you are just doing it wrong, also, usgae = dumb and we all know that, I'm pretty sure all of you agree that latias and thundy-t are not worse than donphan and jolteon, because if you're arguing usage, that's what your supporting

 

[ShootingStarmie]

tl;dr: sun is good, msot of you are just doing it wrong

While I didn't bother to read your argument (cause it's a tl;dr), I'm slightly annoyed at this last bit. I'm sorry but can you please hop off your high horse? You think you know how to use Sun yet no one else does? I kinda get this arrogant feeling from most of your posts, and you act like because you're slightly active in the OU forums that you know everything. Please just stop thinking you're better than everyone else.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I'm sorry but can you please hop off your high horse? You think you know how to use Sun yet no one else does? I kinda get this arrogant feeling from most of your posts, and you act like because you're slightly active in the OU forums that you know everything. Please just stop thinking you're better than everyone else.

I'm not, everybody is just saying sun has to run 1 specific skelleton, by most of you I'm saying most of you I replied to, most people who played sun in BW1 are better than me by a mile at using sun, for fucks sake, I even play sun wrong sometimes, people are just really having large amounts of misconception, saying volcarona or dugtrio is a requirement on a sun team with ninetales is about as stupid as saying dugtrio or keldeo is a requirement on rain, it's simply not true. way to jump to conclusions, I never mention that I know everything or anything similar to posts, I just like to "prey on the misconceptions" of people, seriously though, I don't think I'm better than everybody else, for fucks sake I barely play OU anymore aside from testing out a sun team or two for fun, also you auto jumped to "please stop thinking I'm better than everybody else" when you don't even know what 1 post of mine is saying, would you please just hop off your fucking assumptions and actually try to take in what I'm saying? whatever, not like I give a single crap about what kind of person someone I barely know is, I'd rather actually discuss something half worth my time such as, how will excadrill or garchomp fit into this list, gene is obviouslly going to win this one since you know, everybody and their grandmother is voting for it. still waiting to see how close it is between ferro,gene and tales when it comes down to the actual vote

 

[youngjake93]

I don't understand why everyone felt forced to run shed shell Heatran against Genesect? I never had a problem with Genesect... Literally every decent special wall beat the standard sets because it couldn't break through with special attacks and you could just use recovery on U Turns, then switch out.
I mean come on, I'm not even good at OU. I used things like Umbreon and Deo-D that trolled Scarf Genesect and Rock Polish Genesect was revengeable/you could pressure it to not set up.

Oh and I'm not trying to get in an argument over it.


Edit: I know what Shed Shell does.... I just don't understand how Genesect "basically forced you to run Shed Shell Heatran" when I was running shit like Umbreon walling it.

 

[Gary]

I don't understand why everyone felt forced to run shed shell Heatran against Genesect? I never had a problem with Genesect... Literally every decent special wall beat the standard sets because it couldn't break through with special attacks and you could just use recovery on U Turns, then switch out.
I mean come on, I'm not even good at OU. I used things like Umbreon and Deo-D that trolled Scarf Genesect and Rock Polish Genesect was revengeable/you could pressure it to not set up.

Oh and I'm not trying to get in an argument over it.

Shed Shell was used to prevent Heatran from being trapped by the lethal Genesect + Dugtrio combo where Genesect would U-turn predicting Heatran to switch in so it could trap it with Dugtrio. This was first seen on Lavos Spawn's Simulation of a Drought sun team that I despised so much, and it became a common sun core ever since. Genesect and sun teams greatly appreciate Heatran disposed of, and without Heatran, most teams were helpless against Genesect, Victini, and Venusaur. Shed Shell allowed Heatran to switch out on Dugtrio, regardless of Arena Trap, which was crucial in some situations.

 

[FluffyStantler]

I can't believe any of you are DOUBTING A POKEMON THAT BROKE 50% USAGE. That is more usage than kyogre than ubers! Genesect was such a centrelizing force in OU, it's hard to see how you guys can ignore it's humongous impact into OU, heck, reuniclus, something largely considered uber for the beginning of BW1 almost dropped to UU because of this thing, that should speak volumes of how much the meta was impacted by this, and reu still hasn't recovered it's place in usage to this day.

Also, are you guys seriously considering putting NINETALES on a top 10 titans list? Ninetales is pitiful, regardless of it bringing sun, it's basically dead weight, politoed is so freakin useful, it's great physical and special bulk allow it to stay around and scald things, which btw, did I mention scald is like the bet move in the game? Ttar is pretty self explanitory, it's an excellant pokemon already that somehow got one of the best abilities in the game, thanks game freak, for totally imbalancing the weather starters lol.

Tales bringing sun isn't even too relevant as, sun is terrible, why do you think ninetales usually earns top 20 in usage stats AT MOST? while toed has almost always been top 5, same with ttar, also chloro sweepers are very pitiful, so weak and frail af, the only good sun team this gen was lavos gene sun, which wasn't really a true sun team, showing how bad sun is, sun stall is so damn terrible, sun offense is just so bad and SR weak and just TERRIBLE, etc. Sun is just bad in OU, I feel ashamed that ninetales is even OU, come on guys, ninetales doesn't even deserve top 30 titans, let alone 10, stop putting it over the best pokemon to enter OU, genesect.

 

[Schpoonman]

Okay, calling Ninetales terrible despite it bringing sun is just wrong. Sun Offense is one of the more dangerous OU archetypes right now, even given its faults.