Thundurus

Taken over from Leremyju

[OVERVIEW]

Thundurus is one of the biggest threats in the VGC metagame, mainly because of its incredible Prankster Thunder Wave. It is also backed up by a very good Speed tier and high Special Attack, which gives it the freedom to invest more in bulk. Thundurus is very easy to fit into teams and does not require much team support to function properly. Another great thing about Thundurus is that it is a great check to Mega Salamence, one of the best Mega Evolutions in the metagame; Thundurus resists its Flying-type STAB moves and can hit it hard back with Hidden Power Ice, which OHKOes or 2HKOes depending on the Thundurus set. 79 / 70 / 80 bulk isn't very good, though, so unless Thundurus has significant bulk investment, it won't survive too many hits. Thundurus also has a big issue with being weak to Ice and Rock, which are common attacking types in VGC.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Taunt / Swagger
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 36 SpA / 68 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mega Salamence. Thunder Wave provides speed control and also a chance of rendering an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Taunt allows Thundurus to shut down support Pokemon such as Amoonguss and Trick Room and Tailwind users such as Cresselia and Zapdos, respectively. Swagger provides the possibility of letting the foe waste a turn and deal a lot of damage to themselves. It is most commonly used against special attackers, as physical attackers will have a scary boost when they have snapped out of confusion. Swagger is not as common as Taunt, as Thundurus ends up relying completely on luck.

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry provides one-time instant recovery, which is useful to improve Thundurus's longevity. Leftovers gives Thundurus small amounts of recovery over the whole battle, but it's not as good as Sitrus Berry because Thundurus won't be on the field for too long. 252 HP EVs maximize Thundurus's overall bulk. 120 Defense EVs is the cutoff point where investing more to take less damage from Landorus-T's and Terrakion's Rock Slide requires a reasonably large number of EVs. 68 EVs in Special Defense let Thundurus survive positive-natured Life Orb Hydreigon's Draco Meteor. 28 Speed EVs let Thundurus outrun base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Breloom with a positive Speed nature. The remaining EVs are placed into Special Attack so Thundurus can maintain as high of a damage output as possible.

Usage Tips
========

Using support Thundurus mainly involves spreading Thunder Wave. It is very useful for slowing down Pokemon that rely on their great Speed, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Gengar. Thundurus's teammate can then outspeed those threats the following turn. For example, a teammate that is usually threatened by Mega Kangaskhan can outspeed it if Mega Kangaskhan has been paralyzed, and Thundurus and its teammate can then knock out Mega Kangaskhan the following turn before it gets to do anything. Thundurus's other great asset is its priority Taunt, leaving foes with no chance of landing a status attack. However, people often see an obvious Taunt play on Pokemon such as Amoonguss and will play accordingly by either going for damaging moves or switching Pokemon. Don't let Thundurus take too much damage, especially from Rock Slide, which hits Thundurus for super effective damage and is one of the most common moves in VGC. Try to switch to a teammate that has a better matchup against the Rock Slide user or just knock it out before it deals too much damage.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are nice teammates for Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Because Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. Physical attackers make for good teammates, not fearing Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave because of Thundurus's Prankster Taunt. Fake Out users such as Mega Kangaskhan and Scrafty are helpful for Thundurus, letting it use Thunder Wave and Taunt more freely. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed stat of 100 or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support that Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon but beat them if they outrun them. If Thundurus runs Swagger, a physical attacker holding a Lum Berry can become really threatening if Swagger lets it get an Attack boost.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic / Grass Knot
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mega Salamence. Thunder Wave provides speed control and also a chance of rendering an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Psychic provides coverage against Poison-types such as Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur and Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Grass Knot hits Ground-types, namely Swampert, Gastrodon, and Rhyperior. Protect lets Thundurus avoid unnecessary hits and double targeting, which is useful because it's very frail.

Set Details
========

Life Orb maximizes Thundurus's damage output, as you want it to dish out as much damage as possible with this set, and the recoil doesn't matter because Thundurus won't survive many hits anyways. A Timid nature and maximum Speed investment let Thundurus outspeed the crowded base 110 Speed tier. Full investment in Special Attack lets Thundurus hit as hard as possible, notably allowing it to always OHKO non-bulky variants of Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp with Hidden Power Ice.

Usage Tips
========

When this Thundurus set enters the field, you have two options as to how you want to play it. The first option is to go for what you would expect from Thundurus, which would in most cases be Thunder Wave. Your opponent will then assume that you are running a support Thundurus; the fact that Thundurus won't take Life Orb recoil from using Thunder Wave also contributes to the bluff. The longer you hide that Thundurus is an offensive variant, the more your opponent will incorrectly assume that their Pokemon will survive a Thunderbolt. The second option is to attack immediately; just go for dealing damage, as this Thundurus hits anything hard with either Thunderbolt or a coverage move. There are almost no players who will manage to look at your team and predict that you are running an offensive Thundurus, so you will definitely catch your opponent off-guard. Grass Knot and Psychic are very team-specific, so don't slap Grass Knot on Thundurus if your team already has a Grass-type. Those two moves are also almost never expected by anyone, so you don't really need to worry about your opponent switching out of an incoming Psychic if you haven't revealed it yet, as they won't see it coming.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are teammates for with Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Given that Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed stat of 100 or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon but beat them if they outrun them. Mega Blaziken is a very good partner for Thundurus too, as they beat many of each other's checks. Blaziken beats Rock- and Ice-types, and Thundurus beats Water- and Flying-types.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Focus Blast and Superpower are possible choices on Thundurus, as they offer a way to more easily beat Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Heatran. If you want Dark-type coverage, Dark Pulse and Knock Off are viable. Knock Off is also good for its utility. Sky Drop is one of the rare Flying-type STAB moves Thundurus gets and is also solid for giving Thundurus's teammates a favorable 1v1 matchup. For supportive Thundurus, Rocky Helmet can be good for punishing physical attackers, especially if they use Fake Out. Nasty Plot is an unexpected move, but it can make Thundurus the biggest threat on the field, so your opponent will likely shift their focus to taking it out quickly. Substitute can be combined with Nasty Plot, as it gives Thundurus the freedom to use Nasty Plot without fearing taking too much damage. Thundurus is an unexpected Rain Dance setter; if you combine it with a Pokemon that can work well outside of rain as well, such as Swampert, your opponent will probably not see it coming. Thunder pairs well with Rain Dance, as Thunder never misses under rain. Rest combined with Chesto Berry gives Thundurus instant recovery to full health and removes status, and the strategy can sometimes work out quite well. Foul Play is a niche option that lets Thundurus punish physical attackers such as Metagross, especially if they have set up.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Type Advantage**: As Thundurus does not have amazing bulk, it gets hit very hard by super effective moves. Moves such as Ice Beam and Rock Slide are particularly good for beating Thundurus.

**Defensive Type Advantage**: Electric-types resist Thunderbolt and don't care about Thunder Wave. Rotom-H is a particularly good Thundurus answer, as it also resists Hidden Power Ice.

**Terrakion**: Terrakion checks Thundurus nicely, as it has STAB Rock Slide to hit it with and often carries Lum Berry to ignore Thunder Wave. It can even run Taunt or Quick Guard, which helps shut down Thundurus's status moves.

**Stopping Its Status Moves**: Preventing Thundurus from using status attacks is key to beating supportive Thundurus. Foes can do this by using Taunt or Quick Guard. Lightningrod stops it from using Thunder Wave, which is what Thundurus will most often be using.

**Excadrill**: Excadrill is immune to Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave and is hit neutrally by Hidden Power Ice. It can then proceed to hit Thundurus back hard with Rock Slide.


  • Prankster is a great ability
  • Very easy to fit on teams
  • Good Speed and Special Attack allow it to invest in bulk
  • Access to priority speed control with Thunder Wave
  • Good check to Mega Salamence
  • Not that good bulk
  • Weak to Rock and Ice, both are things that most teams have nowadays
[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Taunt / Swagger
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 36 SpA / 68 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Thunderbolt is basic STAB to hit hard
  • Hidden Power Ice to hit Landorus-T, Garchomp and Mega Salamence for super effective damage
  • Thunder Wave for speed control, shutting down Pokemon that are based on being fast
  • Taunt to stop all sorts of support things, like speed control and status
  • Swagger is mainly for special attackers, making them possibly do a lot of damage to themselves. Not that good because you rely on luck
Set Details
========

  • Sitrus Berry is good for instant recovery
  • Leftovers is an option for a small amount of recovery for a long time
  • 252 HP to maximize bulk
  • 120 Defense to get quite a lot of physical bulk. This defense investment is the cut off point where you will need to invest way more to take Rock Slide from Terrakion and Landorus-T better
  • 68 Speical Defense allows you to survive Life Orb Draco Meteor from Hydreigon
  • 28 Speed lets you outspeed positive Speed natured base 70 Pokemon like Breloom
  • Dump the rest into Special Attack to maintain a solid damage output
Usage Tips
========

  • Spam Thunder Wave, especially on fast Pokemon
  • Taunt things that can set up speed control or spread status. However, play your Taunts carefully as many people will predict an obvious Taunt and play accordingly
  • Avoid taking too many Rock Slide's, as most Rock Slide users can 2HKO Thundurus with it
Team Options
========

  • A Wide Guard user like Aegislash or Swamper is appreciated, as Wide Guard can block an incoming Rock Slide
  • Steel-types make great partners with Thundurus, as they resist its two weaknesses, Ice and Rock
  • Physical attackers work well together with it, as they don't have to worry as much about Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave because of Prankster Taunt
  • Fake Out users like Kangaskhan and Scrafty work well, as they can help Thundurus get of a free Thunder Wave or Taunt
  • Landorus-T pairs very well with Thundurus. It allows Landorus-T to freely go for Earthquake, and Thundurus helps take down bulky Water-types with Ice Beam, which is a huge threat to Landorus-T
  • Anything that has a speed tier of 100 and below that appreciates speed control is good with Thundurus, as Thunder Wave lets them go before threats on the opposing side
  • Physical attackers holding Lum Berry work very well together with a Thundurus with Swagger, as they gain a free +2 if they get Swagger'd
[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic / Grass Knot
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Thunderbolt is for STAB and to hit really hard
  • Hidden Power Ice is to hit Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mega Salamence
  • Thunder Wave is for speed control, and shutting down Pokemon that rely on high Speed
  • Psychic gives you coverage for Poison- and Fighting-types
  • Grass Knot gives you coverage against Ground-types, mostly Pokemon that are Water- and Ground-types like Swampert
  • Protect is to avoid taking unneccesary hits and double targeting, as this set is very fraille
Set Details
========

  • Life Orb for maximum damage output
  • 252 SpA to maximize damage output. With this much Special Attack you can OHKO Landorus-T, Garhcomp, and Mega Salamence with Hidden Power Ice
  • 252 Speed and a Timid nature allows Thundurus to break the base 110 speed tier
Usage Tips
========

  • Play aggresively and catch your opponent off guard, as they will be playing according to what they think is a basic support variant
  • You can also spam Thunder Wave turn one, as it will be then even more likely your opponent thinks you are supportive and they won't see the Life Orb recoil that comes if you attack
  • Psychic and Grass Knot are quite team specific, and will surprise many
Team Options
========

  • Steel-types make great partners with Thundurus, as they resist its two weaknesses, Ice and Rock
  • A Wide Guard user like Aegislash or Swamper is appreciated, as Wide Guard can block an incoming Rock Slide
  • Landorus-T pairs very well with Thundurus. It allows Landorus-T to freely go for Earthquake, and Thundurus helps take down bulky Water-types with Ice Beam, which is a huge threat to Landorus-T
  • Anything that has a speed tier of 100 and below that appreciates speed control is good with Thundurus, as Thunder Wave lets them go before threats on the opposing side
  • Mega Blaziken is a good partner for offensive Thundurus, as they beat many of each others weaknesses
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • Focus Blast or Superpower are possible moves, as they give you a way to most of the time OHKO Tyranitar, and also to beat Bisharp and Hydreigon and Kangaskhan
  • Knock Off and Dark Pulse are possible to get Dark-type coverage. Knock Off is also nice for knocking off important items, while Dark Pulse only provides you with coverage for Ghost- and Psychic-types
  • Sky Drop is another thing that can be good on Thundurus, as it is almost the only way to get Flying-STAB, and can give you a favorable matchup 1v1
  • For supportive Thundurus, Rocky Helmet can work as it punishes physical attackers, especially if they Fake Out you
  • Substitute and Nasty Plot can work well together as a Thundurus on +2 is a very big threat that will most likely get a KO or two
  • Rain Dance is good as Thundurus has Prankster, giving it the ability to always get up rain. If you pair it up with a Pokemon that also can be used outside of rain teams like Swampert, and the surprise element can quickly give you a win. Thunder also pairs really well with Rain Dance, as it gets 100 accuracy
  • Chesto Berry and Rest is an option for instant recovery to maximum HP, and getting rid of status
  • Nasty Plot is potentially good on Thundurus, as it provides a huge offensive pressure at +2
  • Foul Play can at times be useful against Metagross and physical attackers that set up
Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive type advantage**: Dealing with super effective hits is not something Thundurus wants to do, as it does not have the best of bulk, specially the offensive set. Almost all teams carry an Ice-type move to deal with Landorus-T and Salamence, and Rock Slide is very common too. An offensive type advantage against Thundurus is something nearly all teams have from before
**Defensive type advantage**: Resisting Thundurus's attacks is really helpful for beating it. Electric-types are good as they resist Thunderbolt and don't care about Thunder Wave. Rotom-H is very good as it also resists HP Ice.
**Terrakion**: Terrakion checks Thundurus nicely, as it has STAB Rock Slide to hit it with, and often carries Lum Berry to ignore Thunder Wave. It can even have Taunt or Quick Guard, which helps shut down supportive variants of Thundurus
**Stopping its status attacks**: Hindering Thundurus from using status attacks is key to beating supportive Thundurus. You can do it by using Taunt, or using Quick Guard. Lightningrod stops it from using Thunder Wave, which is what you mostly will see coming from Thundurus in terms of status attacks
**Excadrill**: Excadrill is immune to Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave, and resists Hidden Power Ice. It can then hit it hard back with Rock Slide
 
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I would mention Excadrill somewhere at Checks and Counters. It is immune to Twave and Tbolt, doesnt rly care about swagger (50/50, but if it snaps out of confusion...and lives...), doesnt really care about HP Ice neither (neutral HP ice is weak even from offensive thundurus), and can hit back hard with Rock Slide. Also, perhaps it would be good to mention Thunder alongside with Rain Dance, as full accuracy Thunder is pretty scary with its power and para chance.
 
in team options, mention landog heavily. EQ and added bulk is what makes double genie so powerful. mention anything that likes speed control like 100 base speed mons and below (kang/sylveon/heatran). mention lum berry users as good partners to pair with swagger, mainly terrakion and other kinds of physical lum users.

remove taunt from checks and counters or lump it in with something else. add lightningrod, preferably with quick guard because it stops thund from spreading paralysis. when mentioning rock slide, mention stone edge as well because often stone edge can OHKO it much more easily if it hits.

i'd like to see nasty plot and foul play mentioned in OO. foul play is mostly just a neat tech against m-metagross and boosted kangs and conceivably can combo with swagger, but now we're getting silly.

after these changes, QC 1/2
 
I would add ChestoRest to OO. It's useful on the bulky set if Sitrus is elsewhere on the team, it also give Thundurus a stronger late game. However you will be realistically losing Taunt.
 
Mega Blaziken makes a great partner for offensive Thundurus-I. They form a very hard hitting mixed + fast core and threaten a lot of the stuff that the other one doesn't want to face.
Thundurus handles Pokémon like Talonflame, Charizard-Y, Suicune, Gyarados, Politoed, Azumarill, etc. pretty well, while Mega Blaziken threatens Terrakion, Amoonguss, Heatran, Hydreigon, Bisharp, Mawile, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, ...

This core is pretty frail, but it easily decimates unprepared teams. I think you should mention it under "Team Options".

PS: Regular Blaziken has the item clause problem, because both, it and Thundurus, want the Life Orb.
 
I'm a little uncomfortable with the EV spread on the first sec. Usually with analyses, the EV spread is goal oriented for the most part with one last "dump the rest in this stat" at the end. The goal orientation is to justify how the investment. For example, the only justification is for 116 Def here is a pretty vague one that it gives him quite a lot of bulk. Why 116 exactly? Why not 108 or 124 instead?

Messing around with that EV spread a little in the Damage Calc, it looks like 116 Def is the cut off point where investing more in defense to live Terrakion and Landorus-T's Rock Slide 2HKO more frequently requires much higher opportunity cost. I'd prefer if we used that as justification for the EV spread unless you have some other justification for it I'm not aware of.

That said the EVs in the first set doesn't account for the 30 in defense from Hidden Power Ice so it'll need to be something like 252 HP / 120 Def / 36 SpAtk / 68 SpD / 28 Spe instead (there'll be an extra EV left unused here thanks to HP Ice).

Other than that, this looks solid. QC 2/2
 
Implemented the change and justification for the Defense EVs. When I wrote the skeleton I was kind of on the fence on whether I should implement the spread with HP Ice IVs taken into account, since not everyone have a Thundurus with perfect HP Ice IVs. It si also possible to have an HP Ice spread with even Speed (although most people would toss it when SR'ing), but if you mean this is the correct way to do it, I won't deny that. I took the spread from Chenkovsky's post in the thread for the old, not-completed, analysis. Other than what you said, it does guarantee that you survive Landorus-T's Stone Edge, but that is so uncommon I chose not to mention it.

Edit: Added Mega Blaziken to team options for offensive Thundurus after a suggestion from Nelson Tangela
 
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This is finally written and ready for GP. Sorry for taking so long, end of the school year gave me less time than usual this past week.
 

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lemme know if you have any questions :]
[OVERVIEW]

Thundurus is one of the biggest threats in the VGC metagame, mainly because of its incredible Prankster Thunder Wave. It is also backed up by a very good Speed tier and high Special Attack, and these stats being so good which lets it invest more in bulk. Thundurus is very easy to fit into teams, (remove comma) and does not require much team support to function properly. Another great thing about Thundurus is that it is a great check to Mega Salamence, one of the best Mega Evolutions in the metagame, by resisiting its Flying-type STAB, and hitting; Thundurus resists its Flying-type STAB moves and can hit it hard back with Hidden Power Ice, which OHKOes or 2HKOes depending on the Thundurus set. Bulk stats of 79 / 70 / 80 bulk isn't very good, though, so unless Thundurus has significant bulk investment it don't give it that much bulk though, so although you are investing in bulk Thundurus won't survive too many hits. Thundurus also has a big issue with being weak to Ice and Rock, common attacking types that most in VGC teams have an attack with.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Taunt / Swagger
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 36 SpA / 68 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt provides Thundurus with Flying-type STAB, and is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, (comma) and Mega Salamence, (remove comma) and won't be used for much else. Thunder Wave provides speed control, (remove comma) and also a chance of rendering leaving a turn useless for an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Taunt allows you to shut down supportive Pokemon such as Amoonguss, (remove comma) and also Trick Room and Tailwind users such as Cresselia and Zapdos. Swagger provides the possibility of letting the foe waste a turn and dealing a lot of damage to themselves. It is most commonly used on special attackers, as physical attackers will have a scary boost when they have snapped out of confusion. Swagger is not as common as Taunt, mainly because you end up relying completely on luck.

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry gives you some provides one-time instant recovery, which is useful to improve Thundurus's longevity. Leftovers gives you Thundurus small amounts of recovery over the whole battle a long time, but is not considered to be as good since because Thundurus won't be on the field for too long. 252 HP EVs maximize overall bulk. 120 Defense EVs is the cutoff point where investing more to take less damage from Landorus-T's and Terrakion's Rock Slide requires a reasonably large amount number of EVs. 68 EVs in Special Defense lets you Thundurus survive positive-natured Life Orb Hydreigon's Draco Meteor from postitive Special Attack natured Hydreigon. 28 Speed EVs lets Thundurus outrun base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Breloom with a positive Speed nature. The rest is dumped in Special Attack so Thundurus can maintain an as high a damage output as possible.

Usage Tips
========

Using supportive Thundurus is mainly about spreading Thunder Wave. It is very useful for slowing down Pokemon that rely on their great Speed, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Gengar. Thundurus's teammate can then outspeed those threats the following turn, which is useful as that teammate could have a problem with say Mega Kangaskhan outspeeding it. For example, a teammate that is usually threatened by Mega Kangaskhan can outspeed it if it has been paralyzed, and Thundurus and its teammate can then knock out Mega Kangaskhan the following turn before it gets to do anything. The other aspect of supportive Thundurus that is great, is Taunting Pokemon with Thundurus's other great asset is its priority Taunt, leaving them foes with no chance of landing a status attack. However, people often see an obvious Taunt play on Pokemon such as Amoonguss, (remove comma) and will then play accordingly, (remove comma) by either going for damaging moves or switching out the Pokemon. When playing with Thundurus, you will always try and not Don't let Thundurus take too much damage, especially from Rock Slide, since it which hits Thundurus for super effective damage and is one of the most common moves in VGC, and hits THundurus for super effective damage. Try to switch out to something a teammate that has a better matchup against the Rock Slide user, (remove comma) or just knock it out before it deals too much damage.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are nice together with Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Since Because Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. Physical attackers make for good teammates, not fearing Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave because of Thundurus's Prankster Taunt. Fake Out users such as Mega Kangaskhan and Scrafty are helpful for Thundurus, letting it use Thunder Wave or and Taunt more freely. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed of 100 and or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon, (remove comma) but beat them if they outrun them. If Thundurus runs running Swagger, a physical attacker holding a Lum Berry can become really threatening if Swagger lets it get an Attack boost and it avoids confusion with Lum Berry. (intuitive enough imo)

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic / Grass Knot
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt provides Thundurus with Flying-type STAB, and is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, (comma) and Mega Salamence, (remove comma) and won't be used for much else. Thunder Wave provides speed control, (remove comma) and also a chance of rendering leaving a turn useless for an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Psychic provides coverage against Poison-types such as Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur, (remove comma) and Fighting-types like such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Grass Knot is not useful for that much, but it hits Ground-types, namely Swampert, Gastrodon, and Rhyperior. Protect lets Thundurus avoid unnecessary hits and double targeting, which is useful because as this set is very frail.

Set Details
========

Life Orb maximizes Thundurus's damage output, as you want to dish out as much damage as possible with this set, and the recoil doesn't matter since you because Thundurus won't live survive many hits anyways. A Timid nature and maximum Speed investment let lets Thundurus outspeed the great (if you mean like...big...say "crowded") base 110 Speed tier. Full investment in Special Attack lets Thundurus is to let it hit as hard as possible, and allows notably allowing it to always OHKO non-bulky variants of Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp with Hidden Power Ice. (optional)

Usage Tips
========

When this offensive Thundurus set enters the field, you have two options as to how you want to play it. The first option is to go for what you would expect from a Thundurus, which would in most cases be Thunder Wave. Your opponent will then think it's safe to assume that you are running a supportive Thundurus, this also gets helped by; (comma) the fact that there won't come any Thundurus won't take Life Orb recoil from using Thunder Wave also contributes to the bluff. (or something idk...) The longer you hide that Thundurus is an you are offensive variant, the more your opponent will incorrectly assume that their Pokemon will live survive something like a Thunderbolt, since you survive it from a supportive Thundurus. (explained well enough already I think) The second option is to attack right off the bat. Not hide anything,; (semicolon) just go for dealing damage, (comma) as this Thundurus hits anything hard with either Thunderbolt or some other a coverage move. There are almost no players whom who will manage to look at your team and predict that you are running an offensive Thundurus, so you will most definetly catch your opponent off-guard. Grass Knot and Psychic are very team-specific, so don't slap Grass Knot on Thundurus if your team already has a Grass-type. Those two moves are also almost never expected by anyone, so you don't really need to worry about that your opponent will switching out of an incoming according to a Psychic if you haven't revealed it yet, because they won't see it coming.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are nice together with Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Since Because (or "given that" or something) Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed of 100 and or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon, (remove comma) but beat them if they outrun them. Mega Blaziken is a very good partner too for Thundurus too, as they beat many of each other's checks. Blaziken beats Rock- and Ice-types, and Thundurus beats Water- and Flying-types.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Focus Blast or and Superpower are possible choices on Thundurus, as they bring offer a way to more easily beat Pokemon like such as Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Heatran. If you want Dark-type coverage, Dark Pulse or and Knock Off are viable. Knock Off is also good for its utility in addition. Sky Drop is one of the rare Flying-type STAB moves Thundurus gets, (remove comma) and is also solid for giving you Thundurus a favorable one-on-one matchup. For supportive Thundurus, (comma) Rocky Helmet can be good for punishing physical attackers, especially if they use Fake Out. Nasty Plot is an unexpected move, but it can make Thundurus the biggest threat on the field. Substitute can be combined with Nasty Plot, as it gives you Thundurus freedom to use Nasty Plot without fearing taknig taking too much damage. Thundurus is an unexpected Rain Dance setter; is a surprising way to get up rain. If if you combine it with a Pokemon that can work well outside of rain as well, (comma) such as Swampert, your opponent will probably not see it coming. Thunder pairs well with Rain Dance, as Thunder never misses under rain. Rest combined with Chesto Berry gives Thundurus instant recovery to full health, (remove comma) and removes status, and the strategy can sometimes work out quite well. Foul Play is a kind of niche option that lets you Thundurus punish physical attackers such as Metagross, and especially if they have set up.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Type Advantage**: As Thundurus does not have amazing bulk, it gets hit very hard by super effective hits. Moves such as Ice Beam and Rock Slide are particaulary particularly good for beating Thundurus.

**Defensive Type Advantage**: Resisting Thundurus's attacks is really helpful for beating it. (kinda self-explanatory imo) Electric-types are good as they resist Thunderbolt and don't care about Thunder Wave. Rotom-H is particularly good, (comma) as it also resists Hidden Power Ice.

**Terrakion**: Terrakion checks Thundurus nicely, as it has STAB Rock Slide to hit it with, (remove comma) and often carries Lum Berry to ignore Thunder Wave. It can even have run Taunt or Quick Guard, which helps shut down supportive variants of Thundurus.

**Stopping Its Status Attacks**: Hindering Preventing Thundurus from using status attacks is key to beating supportive Thundurus. You can do it this by using Taunt, (remove comma) or using Quick Guard. Lightningrod stops it from using Thunder Wave, which is what you mostly will see coming from Thundurus in terms of status attacks.

**Excadrill**: Excadrill is immune to Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave, (remove comma) and resists Hidden Power Ice. (Ground / Steel is neutral to Hidden Power Ice though, yeah? change to "and is hit neutrally by Hidden Power Ice"?) It can then proceed to hit it Thundurus back hard back with Rock Slide.
 
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Thanks for checking. I am honestly courious about how I managed to claim that Thunderbolt is Flying-type STAB. Also changed a bit about Skydrop, adding that it gives Thundurus's teammate a favorable matchup down on the ground. I will also try to avoid writing you and write the Pokemons name instead. You learn new things every day :)
 

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[OVERVIEW]

Thundurus is one of the biggest threats in the VGC metagame, mainly because of its incredible Prankster Thunder Wave. It is also backed up by a very good Speed tier and high Special Attack, which lets it gives it the freedom to (subjective change) invest more in bulk. Thundurus is very easy to fit into teams and does not require much team support to function properly. Another great thing about Thundurus is that it is a great check to Mega Salamence, one of the best Mega Evolutions in the metagame; Thundurus resists its Flying-type STAB moves and can hit it hard back with Hidden Power Ice, which OHKOes or 2HKOes depending on the Thundurus set. 79 / 70 / 80 bulk isn't very good, though, so unless Thundurus has significant bulk investment, (AC) it won't survive too many hits. Thundurus also has a big issue with being weak to Ice and Rock, which are common attacking types in VGC.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Taunt / Swagger
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 36 SpA / 68 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mega Salamence and won't be used for much else (don't undersell it). Thunder Wave provides speed control and also a chance of rendering an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Taunt allows you Thundurus to shut down supportive Pokemon such as Amoonguss and Trick Room and Tailwind users such as Cresselia and Zapdos, respectively. Swagger provides the possibility of letting the foe waste a turn and deal a lot of damage to themselves. It is most commonly used on against special attackers, as physical attackers will have a scary boost when they have snapped out of confusion. Swagger is not as common as Taunt, mainly because you end as Thundurus ends up relying completely on luck.

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry provides one-time instant recovery, which is useful to improve Thundurus's longevity. Leftovers gives Thundurus small amounts of recovery over the whole battle, (AC) but is not considered to be it's not as good as Sitrus Berry because Thundurus won't be on the field for too long. 252 HP EVs maximize Thundurus's overall bulk. 120 Defense EVs is the cutoff point where investing more to take less damage from Landorus-T's and Terrakion's Rock Slide requires a reasonably large number of EVs. 68 EVs in Special Defense lets Thundurus survive positive-natured Life Orb Hydreigon's Draco Meteor. 28 Speed EVs let Thundurus outrun base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Breloom with a positive Speed nature. The rest is dumped remaining EVs are placed into Special Attack so Thundurus can maintain as high of a damage output as possible.

Usage Tips
========

Using supportive Thundurus is mainly about involves spreading Thunder Wave. It is very useful for slowing down Pokemon that rely on their great Speed, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Gengar. Thundurus's teammate can then outspeed those threats the following turn. For example, a teammate that is usually threatened by Mega Kangaskhan can outspeed it if it Mega Kangaskhan (for clarification) has been paralyzed, and Thundurus and its teammate can then knock out Mega Kangaskhan the following turn before it gets to do anything. Thundurus's other great asset is its priority Taunt, leaving foes with no chance of landing a status attack. However, people often see an obvious Taunt play on Pokemon such as Amoonguss and will play accordingly by either going for damaging moves or switching out the Pokemon. Don't let Thundurus take too much damage, especially from Rock Slide, which hits Thundurus for super effective damage and is one of the most common moves in VGC. Try to switch out to a teammate that has a better matchup against the Rock Slide user or just knock it out before it deals too much damage.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are nice together with teammates for (subjective change) Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Because Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. Physical attackers make for good teammates, not fearing Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave because of Thundurus's Prankster Taunt. Fake Out users such as Mega Kangaskhan and Scrafty are helpful for Thundurus, letting it use Thunder Wave and Taunt more freely. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed stat of 100 or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support that Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon but beat them if they outrun them. If Thundurus runs Swagger, a physical attacker holding a Lum Berry can become really threatening if Swagger lets it get an Attack boost.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic / Grass Knot
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunderbolt is particularly helpful to hit bulky Water-types such as Suicune and Milotic. Hidden Power Ice deals 4x super effective damage to Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mega Salamence and won't be used for much else. Thunder Wave provides speed control and also a chance of rendering an opposing Pokemon useless for a turn. Psychic provides coverage against Poison-types such as Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur and Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Grass Knot is not useful for that much, but it (if the move is slashed, don't undersell it too much) hits Ground-types, namely Swampert, Gastrodon, and Rhyperior. Protect lets Thundurus avoid unnecessary hits and double targeting, which is useful because this set is it's very frail.

Set Details
========

Life Orb maximizes Thundurus's damage output, as you want it to dish out as much damage as possible with this set, and the recoil doesn't matter because Thundurus won't survive many hits anyways. A Timid nature and maximum Speed investment let Thundurus outspeed the crowded base 110 Speed tier. Full investment in Special Attack lets Thundurus hit as hard as possible, notably allowing it to always OHKO non-bulky variants of Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp with Hidden Power Ice.

Usage Tips
========

When this offensive Thundurus set enters the field, you have two options as to how you want to play it. The first option is to go for what you would expect from a Thundurus, which would in most cases be Thunder Wave. Your opponent will then think it's safe to assume that you are running a supportive Thundurus; the fact that Thundurus won't take Life Orb recoil from using Thunder Wave also contributes to the bluff. The longer you hide that Thundurus is an offensive variant, the more your opponent will incorrectly assume that their Pokemon will survive something like a Thunderbolt. The second option is to attack right off the bat immediately; just go for dealing damage, as this Thundurus hits anything hard with either Thunderbolt or a coverage move. There are almost no players who will manage to look at your team and predict that you are running an offensive Thundurus, so you will most definetly definitely catch your opponent off-guard. Grass Knot and Psychic are very team-specific, so don't slap Grass Knot on Thundurus if your team already has a Grass-type. Those two moves are also almost never expected by anyone, so you don't really need to worry about your opponent switching out of an incoming Psychic if you haven't revealed it yet, because as they won't see it coming.

Team Options
========

Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Swampert are together with teammates for (subjective change) with Thundurus, as they block Rock Slide. Given that Thundurus is weak to Ice- and Rock-type attacks, bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile make for good partners. One Pokemon that is particularly good paired up with Thundurus is Landorus-T. Landorus-T can go for Earthquake without worrying about its partner, and Thundurus helps by knocking out bulky Water-types with Thunderbolt. Pokemon that have a base Speed stat of 100 or below appreciate the Thunder Wave support Thundurus brings, as they can often be threatened by faster Pokemon but beat them if they outrun them. Mega Blaziken is a very good partner for Thundurus too, as they beat many of each other's checks. Blaziken beats Rock- and Ice-types, and Thundurus beats Water- and Flying-types.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Focus Blast and Superpower are possible choices on Thundurus, as they offer a way to more easily beat Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Heatran. If you want Dark-type coverage, Dark Pulse and Knock Off are viable. Knock Off is also good for its utility. Sky Drop is one of the rare Flying-type STAB moves Thundurus gets and is also solid for giving Thundurus's teammates a favorable one-on-one 1v1 matchup. For supportive Thundurus, (don't cross-reference) Rocky Helmet can be good for punishing physical attackers, especially if they use Fake Out. Nasty Plot is an unexpected move, but it can make Thundurus the biggest threat on the field, so your opponent will likely shift their focus to taking it out quickly. Substitute can be combined with Nasty Plot, as it gives Thundurus the freedom to use Nasty Plot without fearing taking too much damage. Thundurus is an unexpected Rain Dance setter; if you combine it with a Pokemon that can work well outside of rain as well, such as Swampert, your opponent will probably not see it coming. Thunder pairs well with Rain Dance, as Thunder never misses under rain. Rest combined with Chesto Berry gives Thundurus instant recovery to full health and removes status, and the strategy can sometimes work out quite well. Foul Play is a kind of niche option that lets Thundurus punish physical attackers such as Metagross, especially if they have set up.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Type Advantage**: As Thundurus does not have amazing bulk, it gets hit very hard by super effective hits moves. Moves such as Ice Beam and Rock Slide are particularly good for beating Thundurus.

**Defensive Type Advantage**: Electric-types resist Thunderbolt and don't care about Thunder Wave. Rotom-H is a particularly good Thundurus answer, as it also resists Hidden Power Ice.

**Terrakion**: Terrakion checks Thundurus nicely, as it has STAB Rock Slide to hit it with and often carries Lum Berry to ignore Thunder Wave. It can even run Taunt or Quick Guard, which helps shut down supportive variants of Thundurus's status moves.

**Stopping Its Status Attacks Moves**: Preventing Thundurus from using status attacks is key to beating supportive Thundurus. You Foes can do this by using Taunt or Quick Guard. Lightningrod stops it from using Thunder Wave, which is what you mostly will see coming from Thundurus in terms of status attacks (I don't like this wording; try "Thundurus will most often be using").

**Excadrill**: Excadrill is immune to Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave and is hit neutrally by Hidden Power Ice. It can then proceed to hit Thundurus back hard with Rock Slide.

GP 2/2
 
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P Squared

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For supportive Thundurus, (don't cross-reference) Rocky Helmet can be good for punishing physical attackers, especially if they use Fake Out.
the way I see it, cross-set referencing is more about like... saying "the EVs are the same as on the physically defensive set" or "see the first set's team options", aka unjustly assuming that the reader has read the other sets and in general just being lazy (like, why not just paste the stuff...). And the order could get changed or the set could get removed and usually people CMSing won't think to search for "first set"/"second set" when editing things. So that kind of referencing isn't good (as you know). But for something like this, it's just saying that there exists a support Thundurus set, which is pretty reasonable, and it's in Other Options, so it's not really "cross-set". Like, of course in Checks and Counters you'd have to distinguish between Thundurus's sets; that's not cross-referencing. Also I feel like taking this out would make people think that all Thundurus variants can use Rocky Helmet well, which might or might not be true.
tl;dr i feel like this doesn't fall under cross-set referencing and shouldn't be removed, but idk
 

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