OU Tornadus


Overview
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Tornadus's niche rests in its powerful ability Prankster, which grants priority to all of its non-attacking moves. This, combined with its high Special Attack and Speed, as well as access to a powerful STAB Hurricane, makes it an ideal supporter for rain teams. While it can set up a Prankster Rain Dance to help the rest of the team, it is also a threatening and powerful Pokemon in rain. However, this is where Tornadus's good points end. Mediocre defensive typing and bulk make it difficult to both set up rain and take more than one or two hits. It also faces great competition from its Therian forme, which is faster and has Regenerator, also a great ability. Tornadus is less threatening without permanent rain, but underestimating it would be a mistake, as it can be a powerful member of rain teams.

Prankster
########
name: Prankster
move 1: Rain Dance / Tailwind
move 2: Hurricane
move 3: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 4: Knock Off / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid

Moves
========

Rain Dance makes Tornadus an auxiliary weather inducer for rain teams, an important role with the lack of permanent rain. Alternatively, Tailwind can be used to double the Speed of your entire team, as your team may already have enough rain support but may need Speed in a sitch. Hurricane is Tornadus's main offensive move, with great power and neutral coverage. Superpower gets good coverage with Hurricane and has 100% accuracy, but Focus Blast is a stronger option that provides the same coverage. The former notably hits Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey harder, while the latter is better against Ferrothorn and doesn't have any notable setbacks aside from inaccuracy. Knock Off hits Aegislash, Latias, and Latios harder than any other move on this set, while Prankster Taunt is a great disrupting move, especially against opposing oriented opponents and Baton Pass teams. U-turn can also be used to possibly get a rain sweeper in for free, if you want to preserve Tornadus for later.

Set Details
========

Special Attack and Speed are maximized so that Tornadus hits as hard as possible while taking advantage of its great Speed tier that puts it ahead of Pokemon like Latios. Life Orb is the best item because five turns of rain is usually enough and Tornadus appreciates the wallbreaking power, but Damp Rock can be used to maximize rain turns if you desire. The Prankster ability almost guarantees setting up Rain Dance. If going mixed, a Naive nature is better so that Tornadus can take physical Bug- and Fighting-type moves better, but Timid should be used if you opt for Focus Blast and Taunt.

Usage Tips
========

Tornadus should come in mid-game after the first time your rain runs out. It should not be your first rain setter, as this squanders its offensive capabilities. After setting up Rain Dance, it's probably best for it to just spam Hurricane or the appropriate coverage move until it's KOed, which should be soon, to let another rain sweeper in for free. However, if you see the opportunity to switch in another Pokemon for free, then you can save Tornadus and get off another guaranteed Rain Dance later. If using Tailwind instead, then Tornadus can provide support at any stage of the game, but it can be difficult to take advantage of.

Team Options
========

Deoxys-S's Damp Rock set makes a great rain lead to set the pressure. Politoed is also basically mandatory for rain teams, thanks to setting up rain just by switching in. After that, rain abusers should be added. Electric-types such as Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Raikou, and Mega Manectric are good Pokemon that take advantage of Thunder's 100% accuracy in rain. Swift Swimmers are also a crucial part of rain teams. Kabutops and Kingdra are both good choices, while Ludicolo, Omastar, and Seismitoad are more unconventional choices that can still be effective.

Other Options
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Tornadus doesn't have many other usable options in OU. Grass Knot provides super effective coverage against opposing Rock-, Ground-, and Water-types, but Hippowdon is really the only notable target hit harder. Heat Wave can be used as a fairly powerful and accurate attack against (Mega) Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, but is weakened in rain. A physical Defiant set with no item and Acrobatics can work as an all-out attacker and Defog abuser, but it is too weak without an item, and is rather reliant on boosts and several rather lacking physical attacks. Finally, Tornadus can run a purely offensive set with multiple coverage moves and without the pretense of running rain support, though it is averagely effective.

Checks & Counters
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**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Thundurus and Rotom-W can easily survive Tornadus's attacks and hit it with a STAB Thunderbolt or Volt Switch.

**Weather Inducers**: Weather inducers not only hinders the spammability of Hurricane, but can also delay other rain-reliant sweepers of which Tornadus may be paired. Mega Charizard Y's sunlight reduces Hurricane's accuracy to 50% and can take Tornadus out with ease. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can also change the weather, while outspeeding and KOing. Hippowdon, especially mixed defensive variants, can take some attacks rather well and recover the damage off with Slack Off, although it has a chance of being 2HKOed by Life Orb Hurricane.

**Bulky Pokemon That Resist Flying**: Specially Defensive Skarmory can avoid a 2HKO from any attack that Tornadus will carry. Aegislash also takes even Knock Off fairly well and can protect itself against that with King's Shield.

**Faster Attackers**: Not much can outrun Tornadus, but if something does, you can bet it has a chance of beating the former due to its average bulk. Greninja, Raikou, Alakazam, and Deoxys-S all naturally outspeed and can KO with Ice- and Electric-type attacks. Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Landorus-T, Excadrill, and Kyurem-B can also surprise and OHKO. Finally, while they aren't too common, Swift Swimmers such as Kingdra and Kabutops can take advantage of the rain Tornadus is reliant on and proceed to do huge damage to it as well as its team.
 
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horyzhnz

[10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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Wouldn't ferrothorn make a good teammate? It handles most of its checks and appreciates the fire nerf in rain.
 
I think Tailwind should get a larger mention and at least slashed with Rain Dance. As far as team support goes, Tailwind is more useful in the sense that, unlike Rain Dance, it is not specific to rain teams. I feel that Tornadus is going to want to use its turns on the field to spam Hurricane rather than set up rain itself. In gen 5, Tornadus was deadly for its ability to abuse rain with Hurricane and then get off a priority Tailwind before it went down to allow something like CB Kyu-B to smash things. The priority-filled metagame makes Tailwind slightly less useful, but I believe that it is a better option that Rain Dance. Of course, in this context Politoed becomes a mandatory partner, and Life Orb/Sharp Beak should be used.
 
Well, in gen 5 rain was permanent, so that changed how you could play about it significantly. Now, you need auxiliary rain setters, and Tornadus is one of the best with Prankster. And Tornadus-T usually outclasses it in straight offensive sets because of greater Speed and Regenerator.
 
Auxiliary rain setters are useful, but still not entirely necessary. Prankster Tailwind on the other hand, is very useful for when rain isn't needed, and supports just about any offensive team. Rain Dance is very good, but I feel that Tailwind merits a slash with it.
 
A general offensive support Tornadus isn't a bad set, but I don't think it's effective enough in the current meta to be worth a set outside of OO. If other people disagree, I'll add one, but I think Tornadus's main niche is on rain and everything else is just OO.
 
You might want to add a pure physical set with defiant. I know prankster is usually superior, but defiant can really catch people off-guard. If you manage to predict right and switch into defog you have pretty good chance to sweep the opponent's team, especially considering Tornadus' great speed tier and reliable 110 bp stab.
 
That sounds like a reasonably effective set. I'll have to test it, but I think it could work. It'd probably look like this.

Physical
########
name: Physical
move 1:Acrobatics
move 2:Knock Off
move 3:Superpower
move 4:U-turn
ability:Defiant
evs:252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature:Jolly

You kind of need a reliably powerful Acrobatics, so no item would be best, since there's no way to ensure any other item sets off.
 
I got around to testing that set, and it's disappointing. The lack of item means that you don't hit as hard as you want, and there's no good reason to run it over Thundurus, Bisharp, or even Milotic, because they all hit harder with Life Orb. I'll just put it in OO.
 
I find that Mixed Tornadus is much more effective in terms of actual usage on the ladder. This particular set, granted it was Therian, gave me trouble:

Mixed
#######
Name: Mixed
Move 1: Heat Wave
Move 2: Hurricane
Move 3: Knock Off
Move 4: Superpower
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP

If Life Orb, put the 4 EVs in Defense over HP. Lefties works well.
 
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TheManlyLadybug

Banned deucer.
Superpower fucks up pink blobs
I'm not so sure about that:

4 Atk Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 260-306 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Say Chansey switches into Stealth Rock and a layers of Spikes, and Superpower does maximum damage. Then:

-1 4 Atk Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 172-204 (24.4 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO

So say that the second Superpower does maximum damage too(near impossible but whatever). 43.4% + 25% is 68.4%, so Chansey is at 31.6% health before taking the second Superpower, which does the maximum damage of 28.9%, leaving Chansey with 2.7%. Chansey then uses Wish and/or Softboiled(if it uses Wish, this is assuming you Protect the next turn). Chansey is now at 52.7%, your Tornadus is at -2 Attack, and Chansey can easily stall you out, and proceed to 3HKO with Seismic Toss or Toxic the incoming switch-in.
Well that takes care of Chansey. Let's look at Blissey:

4 Atk Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 354-418 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hey not bad actually. Say it does max damage, Stealth Rock is up, and Blissey has Leftovers (obviously). That leaves Blissey with 35.25% left. Blissey Protects to get some Leftovers recovery, leaving it with 41.5%. Then:

-1 4 Atk Tornadus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 238-280 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- 12.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Say the second Superpower does max damage. That leaves Blissey with 2.3% left. Blissey then uses Wish. At the end of the turn it gets Lefties recovery, upping its health to 8.55%. Blissey uses Protect again to ensure Wish recovery. It gets the Wish and the Lefties recovery, giving it 64.8% health. Like with Chansey, Blissey is at over half health, your Tornadus is at -2 Attack, and Blissey can 3HKO with Seismic Toss or Toxic the incoming switch-in.

So yeah, Superpower doesn't really "fuck up" the pink blobs at all. Reword this or elaborate more on why to use Superpower over Focus Blast in the third slot. Some Pokémon that are hit harder by Superpower include Heatran, Snorlax, specially defensive Porygon2, and Tyranitar.

Actually, looking though the OU tier list, it seems like more Pokemon would be hit harder by Focus Blast than by Superpower, especially in the physically defensive metagame. Examples of this are Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Mega Aggron, Krookodile, Kabutops, Rhyperior, and Cloyster. This is not even factoring in Special Attack vs. Attack. 349 vs. 267 is a pretty big difference, I'd say. I would appreciate other's input on this, but I personally think Focus Blast should get the first slash in the third slot. If not, elaborate more on what makes Superpower a superior option to Focus Blast(besides the nickname Focus Miss).
 
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So yeah, Superpower doesn't really "fuck up" the pink blobs at all. Reword this or elaborate more on why to use Superpower over Focus Blast in the third slot. Some Pokémon that are hit harder by Superpower include Heatran, Snorlax, specially defensive Porygon2, and Tyranitar.
In combination with Knock Off/Taunt it does, and Blissey doesn't normally run 252 HP afaik.

Actually, looking though the OU tier list, it seems like more Pokemon would be hit harder by Focus Blast than by Superpower, especially in the physically defensive metagame. Examples of this are Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Mega Aggron, Krookodile, Kabutops, Rhyperior, and Cloyster. This is not even factoring in Special Attack vs. Attack. 349 vs. 267 is a pretty big difference, I'd say. I would appreciate other's input on this, but I personally think Focus Blast should get the first slash in the third slot. If not, elaborate more on what makes Superpower a superior option to Focus Blast(besides the nickname Focus Miss).
Against most of them Heatwave would probably be the better move due to superior Accuracy anyway, I'd also say hittinh Heatran and Tyranitar harder is more important than hitting obscure stuff like Krookodile, Kabutops, Rhyperior and Cloyster.
 

TheManlyLadybug

Banned deucer.
In combination with Knock Off/Taunt it does, and Blissey doesn't normally run 252 HP afaik.



Against most of them Heatwave would probably be the better move due to superior Accuracy anyway, I'd also say hittinh Heatran and Tyranitar harder is more important than hitting obscure stuff like Krookodile, Kabutops, Rhyperior and Cloyster.
SLAPS SELF IN THE FACE.

I completely forgot about Taunt and Knock Off. Ok Superpower should definitely get the first slash. If it didn't carry those moves, one could debate that Focus Blast is better depending on the team though. Thank you for correcting my idiotic and mindless post.
 
Tornadus is also often used as a suicide lead if your team opts for it over Deoxys-S (You can also run both with Tornadus coming in mid-game). In this case, it's not necessary to finish off Chansey/Blissey completely. It's enough to chunk them to the point where you bring in something like Kabutops after Tornadus dies, they're forced out, and later they're weakened enough that they can't switch into Thundurus or Kingdra or something.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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So personally I think Tailwind deserves a moveset of its own. Priority Tailwind is great for hyper offensive teams and even some of the more balanced teams can take advantage of the doubled Speed. You can copy the first set and replace Rain Dance with Tailwind. Also, slash Air Slash with the Tailwind set.

Thoughts?
 

CrashinBoomBang

außerirdisch, anunnaki
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After thinking about this and discussing it briefly on IRC, I'm against a dedicated Tailwind set.

First of all, Tailwind's duration of only 4 turns means that, unless you die (and thus lose the chance to set up another Tailwind later in the game), you will have to switch a sweeper into whatever is currently out and only have 2 turns of using it left. That sounds like a pretty big waste of a Pokemon to me, especially when Aegislash is undeniably one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame and can easily leech away at your turns with King's Shield anyway. Furthermore, Rain Dance does way more to Tornadus by increasing its accuracy for Hurricane; when using Tailwind you're stuck with either a very weak to very unreliable move. All these factors contribute to Tailwind being way less useful in practice than in theory.

However, I am fine with slashing Tailwind on the first set after Taunt and Knock Off or simply putting it into the description. Since not all of your Pokemon are going to be Swift Swimmers, having the option to give doubled speed to a different Pokemon for a few turns without necessarily basing your whole team around it is pretty nice. A dedicated Tailwind set can be mentioned in Other Options too, but I don't like having it on the main analysis because it's just so unreliable.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Swagger needs to be cut out of OO cause banned lol.

More importantly, I dont feel like Life Orb should e the primary slash on the set, there are going to be a number of situations where you set up Rain Dance and live for a turn or two. Sure you can pop off some powerful Hurricanes but if youre not supporting your team is it worth it at all? I mean its like using a turn to use sharpen or something, its not a large power increase for the free turn you got and little team support you give. Damp Rock has a legit niche of giving prankster 8 turns, but just 5 turns is not enough to support anything but maybe a turn or two of rain after the fact.
 
I guess the main thing is that without life orb your coverage moves are rather weak, probably weak enough to not be viable outside of Focus Blast, you still have Prankster Taunt though so wall breaking is still an option and you're more of a supportive Mon anyway with damp rock+rain dance.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
If youre going to use Life ORb Torn-T is really just better thanks to regenerator, the 5 turns of rain you get is simply not enough to masqeurade is a support poke
 
Yeah, seconding removal of Life Orb. The point of the set is to provide rain support, there's no point giving up Damp Rock when it's basically mandatory. I mean, you most definitely aren't a sweeper or a wallbreaker, you provide support, and as such, your item choice should reflect what your role is.
 
I originally had Damp Rock as the primary item but I changed it because I felt like it was too weak and it functioned primarily as an offensive Pokemon. I'm fine with changing it back if you think Damp Rock is too important.
 

Jukain

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Damp Rock is by no means too important. Tornadus hugely benefits from the LO-boosted power of its Hurricanes, which are stronger than those of Tornadus-T. 5 turns is not a lot, but it can be enough when you need it in a pinch. Damp Rock simply compromises too much power IMO.
 

Alter

lab report ᐛ
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I agree with leaving Damp Rock as a secondary slash. If you really want, put it into set details, but it's pretty useful for extending the rain to Swift Swim teammates.

Checks and Counters
- Make sure to change the checks and counters section to the latest format and you're good to go.
- I don't think Magic Coat Deoxys-S wants a standalone mention in this section.
- Maybe add Goodra instead as it can tank Hurricanes with a lot of ease and KO it.


QC APPROVED 1/4
 

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