ORAS Ubers Ubers Hyper Offense Team

DemonEyesJoker

DemonEyesJoker

Hi, I'm DemonEyesJoker, been on Smogon and Showdown for a while now. I made a Ubers team recently and would like some feedback on it. It's a semi-hyper offense team (semi because of Forretress).

Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Knock Off

My hazard setter and lead most of the time. Not much to say, as it dies most games and if it doesn't, I leave it as fodder for later, set up more Spikes or something. Against other leads, I usually go for Taunt to stop hazards or Knock Off if I know they're going to go for Magic Coat. This set does go down to Deoxys-A though, so I have been considering replacing something with Extreme Speed, possibly Spikes.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost

My Mega and a strong offensive presence on this team, Salamence. Frustration is for Imposter Dittos, Roost for some recovery, as well as reduce damage from Stone Edges or Rock Slides. Substitute allows me to get up some Dragon Dances. Salamence usually finds opportunities to set up on Ho-oh (if it is at -1, I can just hide behind a Substitute while it goes for Sacred Fire fishing for a burn), some variants of Groudon and other Salamences who have just come out for a revenge kill or something.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Primal Groudon to tear holes in the other team. Rock Polish brings Groudon's subpar speed up and the rest of the moves are pretty self explanitory. Rock Slide and Earthquake instead of Stone Edge and Precipice Blades because I've been pretty unlucky with the accuracy.:(

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder

My Primal Kyogre check and sole special attacker on this team. I'm considering replacing Hydro Pump with Surf (getting haxed to death recently). Fire Blast for Ferrothorn, Thunder for Kyogre/Primal Kyogre, the other two moves are STAB and boosted by Lustrous Orb, so they hit relatively hard. I choose this set over Choice Specs or Scarf due to things like Xerneas and Groudon being immune to Spacial Rend and Hydro Pump respectively. I find that most opponents don't expect Palkia being able to switch moves, so I manage to heavily damage the switch ins that it tends to attract.

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw

E-Killer Arceus, used to clean up teams or at least damage them significantly. I'm running enough speed to outrun max speed base 90s and tossed the rest into bulk to handle threats better. Swords Dance raises Attack sky high, Extreme Speed is godly on Arceus (heh, get it?), being a +2 priority STAB move, Earthquake for Primal Groudon and Shadow Claw for Ghost types.

Forretress @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

Forretress is my Xerneas and Ekiler Arceus answer, taking any one hit and phazing them out. While they get phazed out, I often set up Toxic Spikes to hopefully get something poisoned, putting a timer on them and hopefully preventing them from going for setup. Max Special Defense allows me to check Xerneas better (unless it's running HP Fire), as Forretress has high Defense anyway. Rapid Spin allows me to get rid of hazards, although I no longer have a guaranteed phaze anymore, as Sturdy is no longer up.

Threats to this team:

- Xerneas: Geomancer Xerneas can't be handled if it's the last Pokemon remaining or if Forretress no longer has Sturdy and Xerneas has HP Fire.
- Yveltal: The physically defensive variant defeats most of my team, especially with Foul Play. It weakens my team a lot due to most of them being physical.
- Arceus: Ekiller can set up Swords Dance and wreck my team. Salamence takes a lot of damage switching in, even with the Intimidate drop, Groudon is screwed by the Earthquake and Forretress, if Sturdy is gone, can potentially go down if the other player just decides to boost again on it.
- Darkrai: Dark Void is really annoying. Forretress is my usual answer to this thing and can usually phaze it, but the Dark Void breaks the Sturdy due to Bad Dreams, so Forretresss is weakened and can't do much.

Any feedback would be great, good or bad. :)
 
This team shows some promise, but it seems to me right now that you depend very heavily on Sturdy being intact on Forretress. This means a pretty mediocre match-up against HO, and the fact that you're using it for removing hazards doesn't help either.

Against more defensive teams, looks like Ho-Oh is very threatening to you, especially if you concede a Defog. Which is why Primal Groudon should run Stone Edge or Dragon Claw, because an unboosted Rock Slide cannot 2HKO Latias even after SR, whereas Stone Edge guarantees 2HKO after SR. Also, I think your EV spread can be optimized and should run Precipice Blades despite the lower accuracy. RP Groudon doesn't really need that much speed, you need only 56 to outspeed Scarf base 90s at +2. A 252+ Precipice Blades guarantees the OHKO on 4/0 Primal Kyogre after SR, whereas Earthquake can never OHKO.

Using PB over EQ takes away the need for a dedicated switch in to some degree, because I don't think Palkia is pulling enough weight on this team. It doesn't wall much else other than Kyogre, and it's another mon where Latias can potentially get a Defog, as Spacial Rend doesn't OHKO while Latias outspeeds you. Given a free switch in, Latias can Defog, tank a Spacial Rend and KO Palkia with a faster, harder hitting Draco Meteor. I think your team could benefit a lot from Darkrai. It stops opposing Defogger from Defogging and has great offensive pressure.

Finally Forretress. My main beef against it is that it's another thing where your opponent can Defog on. You're aiming your team to be a very offensive team, yet you're taking the defensive mindset against threats. Yes Ekiller can run through you, but you should be able to build your team to prevent it from setting up. Same goes with GeoXern. I feel something that can maintain offensive pressure on this spot is obviously your own GeoXern, which also provides a switch in to physically defensive Yveltal. Like even if your Xern and an Ekiller set up at the same time, he can't reliably OHKO you after SR even with Adamant Life Orb, while you OHKO even bulky Ekiller after SR with Moonblast.
 
Firebird Maniac said:
This team shows some promise, but it seems to me right now that you depend very heavily on Sturdy being intact on Forretress. This means a pretty mediocre match-up against HO, and the fact that you're using it for removing hazards doesn't help either.

Against more defensive teams, looks like Ho-Oh is very threatening to you, especially if you concede a Defog. Which is why Primal Groudon should run Stone Edge or Dragon Claw, because an unboosted Rock Slide cannot 2HKO Latias even after SR, whereas Stone Edge guarantees 2HKO after SR. Also, I think your EV spread can be optimized and should run Precipice Blades despite the lower accuracy. RP Groudon doesn't really need that much speed, you need only 56 to outspeed Scarf base 90s at +2. A 252+ Precipice Blades guarantees the OHKO on 4/0 Primal Kyogre after SR, whereas Earthquake can never OHKO.

Using PB over EQ takes away the need for a dedicated switch in to some degree, because I don't think Palkia is pulling enough weight on this team. It doesn't wall much else other than Kyogre, and it's another mon where Latias can potentially get a Defog, as Spacial Rend doesn't OHKO while Latias outspeeds you. Given a free switch in, Latias can Defog, tank a Spacial Rend and KO Palkia with a faster, harder hitting Draco Meteor. I think your team could benefit a lot from Darkrai. It stops opposing Defogger from Defogging and has great offensive pressure.

Finally Forretress. My main beef against it is that it's another thing where your opponent can Defog on. You're aiming your team to be a very offensive team, yet you're taking the defensive mindset against threats. Yes Ekiller can run through you, but you should be able to build your team to prevent it from setting up. Same goes with GeoXern. I feel something that can maintain offensive pressure on this spot is obviously your own GeoXern, which also provides a switch in to physically defensive Yveltal. Like even if your Xern and an Ekiller set up at the same time, he can't reliably OHKO you after SR even with Adamant Life Orb, while you OHKO even bulky Ekiller after SR with Moonblast.
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Thank you for the input, I'll change the team accordingly. I didn't really like Forretress either tbh, as it lost a lot of my momentum in every game where I had to use it. I'll probably just end up using your suggestion of Darkrai and GeoXern for the team. :)
 
Hey DemonEyesJoker,

This team is pretty interesting. It has four standard HO staples (being Deoxys-S, Ekiller Arceus, Salamence, and Groudon), but also happens to have two kind of random Pokemon here, which are a bit odd. Forretress kills your momentum, so I don't feel that this is optimal, and I also think that there are some sets that should be optimized. Palkia is workable I think, since it at least threatens Latias to limit defog, but I do think it can occasionally be setup fodder and can be defogged on by a fair amount of things, which can put you in a bad position.

Aromatherapy Xerneas, which can help with Darkrai a bit too, should be a solid replacement for Forretress, as the goal of HO should be to keep momentum. To beat opposing Xerneas, your game plan should be to get enough damage to revenge it with Arceus, and Ekiller is soft checked by Salamence and struggles to set up on much so Forretress really isn't too necessary, but is rather detrimental to the team currently. Since you have Palkia, I would rather try to not change it so that you don't have a bog-standard team. If you do keep it, Thunder Wave is necessary to not be setup bait, and it should replace Thunder, which hits fewer targets and even with a decent amount of HP investment, Kyogre will fall to two Spacial Rends with just a bit of prior damage (one round of SR+Spikes is enough). I also think a mixed RP Groudon would be pretty cool here, as it can lure some stuff that beats Salamence and Ekiller, which runs 96 Atk / 252 SpA / 160 Spe with a Mild Nature, running Rock Polish / Precipice Blades / Fire Blast / Dragon Pulse.

In regards to sets, Arceus should run a spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature, which outspeeds unevolved Gengar among other things. A very small nitpick is that you should move 4 HP EVs to SDef on Palkia, so you have an odd HP value and take a little bit less damage from hazards and such.

Good luck!
 
haxiom said:
Hey DemonEyesJoker,

This team is pretty interesting. It has four standard HO staples (being Deoxys-S, Ekiller Arceus, Salamence, and Groudon), but also happens to have two kind of random Pokemon here, which are a bit odd. Forretress kills your momentum, so I don't feel that this is optimal, and I also think that there are some sets that should be optimized. Palkia is workable I think, since it at least threatens Latias to limit defog, but I do think it can occasionally be setup fodder and can be defogged on by a fair amount of things, which can put you in a bad position.

Aromatherapy Xerneas, which can help with Darkrai a bit too, should be a solid replacement for Forretress, as the goal of HO should be to keep momentum. To beat opposing Xerneas, your game plan should be to get enough damage to revenge it with Arceus, and Ekiller is soft checked by Salamence and struggles to set up on much so Forretress really isn't too necessary, but is rather detrimental to the team currently. Since you have Palkia, I would rather try to not change it so that you don't have a bog-standard team. If you do keep it, Thunder Wave is necessary to not be setup bait, and it should replace Thunder, which hits fewer targets and even with a decent amount of HP investment, Kyogre will fall to two Spacial Rends with just a bit of prior damage (one round of SR+Spikes is enough). I also think a mixed RP Groudon would be pretty cool here, as it can lure some stuff that beats Salamence and Ekiller, which runs 96 Atk / 252 SpA / 160 Spe with a Mild Nature, running Rock Polish / Precipice Blades / Fire Blast / Dragon Pulse.

In regards to sets, Arceus should run a spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature, which outspeeds unevolved Gengar among other things. A very small nitpick is that you should move 4 HP EVs to SDef on Palkia, so you have an odd HP value and take a little bit less damage from hazards and such.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input haxiom, really like the idea of a mixed RP Groudon, definitely going to try that out. Aromatherapy Xerneas also sounds really good, with all the status running around. Would you suggest Geomancy/Moonblast/Focus Blast/Aromatherapy?
 
Hi DemonEyesJoker,

I agree with haxiom that it would be very easy to accidentally turn this into a generic-as-balls HO team (Deo-S, Mence, E-Killer, Pdon, GeoXern, Darkrai), but that would accomplish nothing so I'm going to try to work around the less-standard ideas you have in this team.

Forretress has its place on HO, but generally as a Custap Berry lead with Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Explosion. It can almost always get up one spike and one toxic spike, or one of the two + a spin or boom, which gives you the momentum to bring in a wallbreaker and dictate the pace of the game. Toxic spikes are especially good against mostly-grounded teams, since they force your opponent to Defog early on and generally play the way you want.

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Explosion

The SpA EVs are just because I wanted them to go somewhere, and you want as low defence as possible to get into Custap range as easily as possible.

Deoxys-S and Forry on the same team makes little sense, so my next suggestion is changing Deo-S to Sash Deoxys-Attack with rocks. This prevents set-up and Defog, and coming in for free after Forretress allows it to do heavy damage while also getting up rocks.

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- ExtremeSpeed
- Stealth Rock

Your Mence, Pdon, E-Killer HO combination is pretty sound (to be honest it's hard to go wrong with those three), but I agree with haxiom and Firebird Maniac that it does need some optimization. On HO you should generally go with the more powerful, less accurate move (Precipice Blades over EQ, Stone Edge over Rock Slide, Hydro Pump over Surf etc. etc.) because offensive momentum is so important to the overall philosophy of the team; yes you may lose a sweep unnecessarily every few games, but ideally there should always be another 'mon to revenge and continue the assault.

Rock Polish Pdon doesn't need that much speed - there are hardly any base 100 scarfers around - so 56 Spe is an option as Firebird said, or you could go with 88 Spe to reach 238 and outspeed scarf Rayquaza, who could otherwise KO with a random water move. Mixed is an interesting option here, especially since you're rather physical-heavy, but I think you definitely need a rock move as you are very weak to Ho-Oh if rocks are gone. I would be inclined be at the very least physically biased, with Blades, Stone Edge, and Fire Punch/Overheat or Dragon Claw/Dragon Pulse, depending on what you find to be most problematic.

If you want a more solid E-Killer check, a slightly bulkier Mence is an option. 200 HP and 132+ Atk lets you take a +3 Jolly LO Extremespeed and do 57.7 - 68.5% back with Frustration, putting E-Killer on a very tight timer with LO hits + hazards, and allowing it to be revenge-killed relatively easily. I also think that in general Refresh is superior to Substitute, as Klefki is omnipresent, and it doesn't use any of your HP.

Salamence (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Refresh
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

EDIT: I've been testing this team a fair amount, because the Forry - Deoxys-A dual lead is fun, and have decided that 36 HP/252+ Atk/220 Spe is a better spread on Mence.
Go with haxiom on the E-Killer set.

Finally, Palkia. I never say "Never use x" (unless it's Mega-Lati@s), but it really does struggle in this metagame with all the fairies and Pdons running around, and its past role of Kyogre check isn't even properly viable any more now that Kyogre can switch moves. Looking at your threatlist, there is one mon that near-counters Darkrai and Yveltal, soft checks E-Killer, and at least isn't complete bait against GeoXern. My suggestion is Sleep Talk Scarf Xerneas, which in addition to doing well against the above mons (only 6.3% chance for +2 Jolly LO E-Killer to KO from full; Moonblast does 55.8 - 65.8% to GeoXern before boosts; dark and dragon types just die) is also a nice counter-lead against the magic bouncers M-Diancie and M-Sableye which stop Forretress. This also patches up the massive M-Diancie + Ho-Oh weakness you have at the moment, which (although it's slightly less common now) still destroys unprepared teams.

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 76 Atk / 248 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Megahorn

I hope this helps, and good luck!

P.S. In case haxiom doesn't get back to you on the Aromatherapy Xern, then yes Geo/Aroma/Moonblast/Focus Blast. I use this set:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 184 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast

P.P.S. In future please include an importable. It makes rating much easier.
 
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