ORAS Ubers Untitled 2

[orch]

Hello people who read rmt subforum!

I'm orch and I'm posting my second installment of my rmt series. I think that no rmt is complete without a story, so here's my story.

When ORAS rolled around and changed everything about ubers. For a while, it looked like there was only two viable archetypes in oras ubers: ho and ho-oh balance. I was lost, I hated both archetypes so I endlessly tried random bullshit. Sometimes I struck gold, and to be honest, it was mostly pyrite anyways.

Eventually, I realized few things: Shadow Tag was still the best unbanned ability in the game and that Whimiscott was the most anti-metagame pokemon and nobody knew about it.

I experimented these tenants with various builds and it proved to be successful and fit my battling style well. I started to enjoyed oras ubers at this point lol.

Here's few words of caution. This team was made for myself and nobody else. So, some choices may seem unconventional and every single of these choices are intentional just for myself. Also, because of these choices, the skill floor required to use this team is rather high.
If you're just looking for a team to use in uber open and you've never played ubers before. Move along, you won't win with this team.

Despite of what I just said, I believe that there's no unwinnable match up for this team which is something that many oras ubers teams can't claim. It's just that the skill floor to use this team is high because it requires a good understanding of ubers meta itself.

Team:

​

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Encore​

This pokemon is so good in ORAS ubers. You get so many opportunity to freely come in and threaten with guaranteed 1 fainted pokemon if there's hazards up. Even in the worst case scenario (vs magic bounce), you can just use this as a fodder. It really doesn't matter. Every single other match up is winnable by outplaying with Whim. The fact that Whim singularly hard counters offense with threat of prankster encore is ridiculously strong. Additionally, Whim perform as pseudo spikes because you will be forced to switch a lot and lost health against it.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Toxic

Heatran is an interesting pokemon. I consider it as a temporary member of this team because it's only good right now. The fact that everyone are running mono geoxern gives Heatran a strong niche as a xern counter. It also is my team's Ho-Oh, latis, skymin, and ferrothorn check. Heatran is an unique pokemon and I think that Heatran is an underappreciated pokemon in this metagame. Addiotnally, Heatran sygnerizes with Groundceus, Latios, and Whim positively since these 3 pokemons check all PDon.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Precipice Blades

Obligatory pdon. It's the sweeper of this team. Not much to say here! Rock slide > Stone edge always.

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Psycho Shift
- Psyshock

It's a nuker. I needed a check for fire/grass Pdon. Psycho shifting unexpected para/burn is the best feeling ever. It also functions as crucial secondary pogre and mewtwo check. Just click Draco meteor to kill stuff and roost up if necessary. No brainer really.

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover

I have no idea how cm groundceus was overlooked so far. All you have to do is remove Ho-oh, Primal Kyogre, and Bronzong and you win. Yes, that's right, only 3 pokemon out of the whole metagame can beat this set. Heatran+Groundceus+Latios is nearly perfect defensive synergy and is the defensive backbone of this team. CM Groundceus is an excellent blend of offensive and defensive prowess that 6-0s many current ORAS uber teams by itself.

​

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Focus Blast
- Hex

Standard Hex Gengar that benefits from the burns from Heatran and psycho shifted status from Latios. It also benefits from the forced switches that Whim generates. I needed Ekiller+Toxic Spikes checks. Gengar is the best offensive and utility pokemon and it's silly to not take advantage of it. It's also very convenient to remove possible choices for your opponent to do and ensure exact steps that you want to happen by abusing Shadow Tag.

Replay:
Watch zf win in uber open with CM groundceus because his opponent failed to bring 1 of 3 counters lol.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-393543207

Sorry for the lack of replays, but I promise you that the team works. :)

Threat list:
Deoxys-A
The only "threat" that this team realistically faces. You have to outplay it by draining spa with heatran and threat with encored superpower or extremespeed with Whim and finish it off with Gengar.

Shout outs:
ZoroarkForever - You're cool and the only person to actually understand wtf goes in my head I think.
hyw - I enjoy our talks about life, ubers meta and whatever. My only wish is that you would broaden your play style but I don't blame you for sticking with HO.
Astounded - The only person who I definitely can't beat in ORAS ubers and I think that's the sign of impressive skill that you have. Keep it up mate.
Rest of ubers community - Most of you guys are cool, and you guys make playing ubers interesting and fun with your creativity. Don't be afraid to go out of the popular meta trends and find your own thing. It'll take time but I think it's worth it.

Importable:

Hide

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Encore

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Toxic

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Precipice Blades

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Psycho Shift
- Psyshock

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Focus Blast
- Hex

 

[zf]

Hey old friend, glad to see one of your more creative works making it into the public eye. Definitely one of the cooler ORAS teams I've had the pleasure of using :]

As far as changes go, I usually use Stun Spore > Taunt on Whim. It gives you another status spreader that synergizes with MGar and most importantly, a check to fast mons like MGar, Deo-A, runaway Xerns, etc. I also use 4 Atks Latios instead of the weird set you use. I find it much more helpful for wallbreaking against slower teams and Grass Knot is necessary to pick off SD Groundceus, a mon that's relatively threatening. Obviously I use Stone Edge on my PDons since I like the extra chip, but I don't think that's all too important in the grand scheme of things.

Peace :]

 

[Fireburn]

Ho-Oh is a huge problem for this team, which is a pretty fatal flaw if you're trying to show off Whims or CM Groundceus. A single Earthquake is all it takes to destroy your Rocker, and once Rocks are erased you have nothing that can stand up to it. It also doesn't help that it gets free switches on half the team (Ground Arceus, Whims, Gengar) and can afford to spam Brave Bird without much issue since Heatran is going to be tanking ~40% each time, so before long it will get beat down.

In general, I think Heatran is a liability and is the source of most of the team's issues. Your team is too dependent on Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Xerneas (let's be real for a sec, monoxern is only useful for counterteaming specific matchups and is not common enough to be worth using Heatran, and nothing else wants to tank Moonblasts), and/or Shaymin-S lacking the appropriate coverage move for Heatran since they will shred this team to pieces without him, yet these Pokemon all still have the coverage move commonly enough to where Heatran will often find itself dying prematurely, at which point you'll just get owned by a lot of stuff. Those aren't the only problems this team has (you have no checks to LO Yveltal, Mega Salamence doesn't need to DD when it can kill or maim everything just by throwing out attacks), but those are the obvious ones.

I'm also skeptical of the claim that Whimsicott single-handedly beats HO when your only true option for dealing with EKiller is hoping Gengar doesn't miss Focus Blast...

Anyway, I'm going to approach this rate with the idea that you want to keep Whimsicott. I don't think it's super great but you seem to adore this Pokemon so I'll try not to dropkick it.

1. Replace Heatran with Bronzong. Bronzong is better than Heatran against pretty much everything barring Ho-Oh, and it can still set up SR. Bronzong is also a better switch into Deoxys-A than Heatran (as in, can tank one Superpower and kill it).
2. Replace Arceus-Ground with Arceus-Rock. Arceus-Ground is unnecessary from a defensive standpoint when Bronzong, Latios, and Whimsicott can handle most kinds of PDon with good play, and Arceus-Rock fixes the Ho-Oh weakness while helping against other birds and retaining the ability to CM sweep. With max Speed and Will-O-Wisp, it can also serve as a backup plan (albeit unreliable) against EKiller if Gengar fails in the clutch (aka misses Focus Blast).
3. Use Hidden Power Fire instead of Psycho Shift on Latios. Psycho Shift is cool in theory, but your lack of hazard removal and Latios's ease of being Spiked on can quickly lead to you being overwhelmed by hazard pressure against more balanced/stally teams (especially ones with Magic Bounce to make Whims useless). HP Fire lets you kill bulky Steel Spikers faster, which is also nice synergy for Arceus-Rock. You can also use Defog for a more conservative approach, though you'll largely be forced to use Gengar to dispose of the fat Steel Spikers then.

Alternatively, if you want a niche Grass Pokemon that sucks a bit less, you can use Klefki over Heatran instead of Bronzong, use SR Groudon over your current set, and then ditch Whimsi for Chesnaught. I'm not actually sure if I would call Chesnaught viable, but it handles Groundceus/QuakeSlide PDon about as well while being better against Darkrai (Bulletproof blocks Sludge Bomb) and actually being able to check EKiller (high Defense and STAB Drain Punch) so tbh it's probably better. You'll have Arceus-Rock and Klefki to compensate for its main weakness (birds) so it might work if you're willing to try it.

Also don't lie to the people, CM Groundceus has more than 3 checks and you know it -.-

Good luck with the team.

 

[orch]

Hey old friend, glad to see one of your more creative works making it into the public eye. Definitely one of the cooler ORAS teams I've had the pleasure of using :]

As far as changes go, I usually use Stun Spore > Taunt on Whim. It gives you another status spreader that synergizes with MGar and most importantly, a check to fast mons like MGar, Deo-A, runaway Xerns, etc. I also use 4 Atks Latios instead of the weird set you use. I find it much more helpful for wallbreaking against slower teams and Grass Knot is necessary to pick off SD Groundceus, a mon that's relatively threatening. Obviously I use Stone Edge on my PDons since I like the extra chip, but I don't think that's all too important in the grand scheme of things.

Peace :]

Hello zf!

Stun Spore over Taunt is an interesting change! It could definitely work on this team. 4 atk Latios is definitely other viable option, however I disagree GK being necessary. Whimsicott is an excellent counter vs SD Groundceus by itself, so I feel like GK latios is unnecessary. I think that DM/psyshock/hp fire/memento might would be better set for this team to aid set up of DD pdon. Additionally, TTar is the other target that GK hits, however the Pursuit usage is declining and rest of team loves coming into Ttar. Memento is useful for these rare pursuit ttar and you can just transform that scenario into a set up opportunity for DD don.

Ho-Oh is a huge problem for this team, which is a pretty fatal flaw if you're trying to show off Whims or CM Groundceus. A single Earthquake is all it takes to destroy your Rocker, and once Rocks are erased you have nothing that can stand up to it. It also doesn't help that it gets free switches on half the team (Ground Arceus, Whims, Gengar) and can afford to spam Brave Bird without much issue since Heatran is going to be tanking ~40% each time, so before long it will get beat down.

In general, I think Heatran is a liability and is the source of most of the team's issues. Your team is too dependent on Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Xerneas (let's be real for a sec, monoxern is only useful for counterteaming specific matchups and is not common enough to be worth using Heatran, and nothing else wants to tank Moonblasts), and/or Shaymin-S lacking the appropriate coverage move for Heatran since they will shred this team to pieces without him, yet these Pokemon all still have the coverage move commonly enough to where Heatran will often find itself dying prematurely, at which point you'll just get owned by a lot of stuff. Those aren't the only problems this team has (you have no checks to LO Yveltal, Mega Salamence doesn't need to DD when it can kill or maim everything just by throwing out attacks), but those are the obvious ones.

I'm also skeptical of the claim that Whimsicott single-handedly beats HO when your only true option for dealing with EKiller is hoping Gengar doesn't miss Focus Blast...

Anyway, I'm going to approach this rate with the idea that you want to keep Whimsicott. I don't think it's super great but you seem to adore this Pokemon so I'll try not to dropkick it.

1. Replace Heatran with Bronzong. Bronzong is better than Heatran against pretty much everything barring Ho-Oh, and it can still set up SR. Bronzong is also a better switch into Deoxys-A than Heatran (as in, can tank one Superpower and kill it).
2. Replace Arceus-Ground with Arceus-Rock. Arceus-Ground is unnecessary from a defensive standpoint when Bronzong, Latios, and Whimsicott can handle most kinds of PDon with good play, and Arceus-Rock fixes the Ho-Oh weakness while helping against other birds and retaining the ability to CM sweep. With max Speed and Will-O-Wisp, it can also serve as a backup plan (albeit unreliable) against EKiller if Gengar fails in the clutch (aka misses Focus Blast).
3. Use Hidden Power Fire instead of Psycho Shift on Latios. Psycho Shift is cool in theory, but your lack of hazard removal and Latios's ease of being Spiked on can quickly lead to you being overwhelmed by hazard pressure against more balanced/stally teams (especially ones with Magic Bounce to make Whims useless). HP Fire lets you kill bulky Steel Spikers faster, which is also nice synergy for Arceus-Rock. You can also use Defog for a more conservative approach, though you'll largely be forced to use Gengar to dispose of the fat Steel Spikers then.

Alternatively, if you want a niche Grass Pokemon that sucks a bit less, you can use Klefki over Heatran instead of Bronzong, use SR Groudon over your current set, and then ditch Whimsi for Chesnaught. I'm not actually sure if I would call Chesnaught viable, but it handles Groundceus/QuakeSlide PDon about as well while being better against Darkrai (Bulletproof blocks Sludge Bomb) and actually being able to check EKiller (high Defense and STAB Drain Punch) so tbh it's probably better. You'll have Arceus-Rock and Klefki to compensate for its main weakness (birds) so it might work if you're willing to try it.

Also don't lie to the people, CM Groundceus has more than 3 checks and you know it -.-

Good luck with the team.

Hello Fireburn!

I appreciate your criticisms. I understand why you'd be skeptical of this team. I think it's where our philosophies differ on teambuilding. What I do is, I study what other people are using in tournament scene right now and develop teams to respond to these trends. I don't care about potential threats if they aren't going to be used. I recognize and accept that as soon as trends turn unfavorable, I won't be able to use this team anymore. In fact, since I posted this team, it's quite likely that I won't be able to win with this team in tours anymore. I'm at peace with that fact.

Like I wrote in the description for Heatran, it's only good because it reflects the meta trends right now. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the tournament scene but Geoxern with coverage are rarely used. You may be right that monoxern is only good for countering specific teams, however it doesn't change the fact that if you face a xern in tour. It's very likely to be that specific set.

It's true that Ho-Oh is a big threat, however the plan is to keep SR up and take trade if necessary to mitigate the threat. Additionally, EQ is usually only used on CB Ho-Oh which means you can freely go to Latios/Whim on predicted EQ. LO EQ is also switchable with Whim. If you mispredict, it means that you can go to Whim and immediately threaten with subseed loop. Skymin usage is at zero and Skymin with coverage means it's Gengar/Latios food anyways.

Whim prevents HO from setting up at all. Ekiller does not even close to beating whim since you can either: playyou can switch your Gengar in freely is a huge advantage for your match up vs HO. Pokemon isn't a 1v1 game, and Whim provides the undeniable support that prevents HO from being able to beat you.

Yveltal is CM Groundceus bait. If it has taunt, then you must accept trade whenever possible. It's true that it has excellent match up however it doesn't straight up sweep you. Realizing and playing with the fact is how you beat teams with Yveltal without any true Yveltal checks.

As for Mence, you're absolutely right. I've addressed it by bumping up Groundceus' speed by 1 so that it will always outspeed rather than tying the standard Mence and threaten it with Ice beam after switching into the attack.

Re thing about Latios, read what I wrote for zf.

I said counters for cm groundceus. Yes, there's are more checks however there isn't more than 3 counters for CM groundceus in metagame right now.

Despite of my defenses, I love your proposed team change. I believe that it'd be an interesting take on this team framework that I had not considered before. I feel like it's a different team, but it's a good and worthy team to try out with. Thanks for that! :)