ORAS OU Using Lucario in OU!(Have I lost my mind?)

[StarBomber109]

Lucario is one of my favorite mons, and for the past few days I have been thinking really hard about how best to use him in OU. I know currently he's UU but he still has some key advantages that make me want to use him. The set I settled on was the SD set. Contained within is my teambuilding process, and unfortunately, the wall I've hit. I lose about as many games as I win with this team, I think some of it might be down to my own misplays but I think there also might be some flaws in my thought process. So please, rate the team. And where did I go wrong? The feedback has been awesome, I've been making small edits to the thread, the team building process has a bit more now. The team has changed so much since I first posted the thread I need to update it. I have had a lot more success on ladder with this team though I am still learning 6th gen.

team building process

I began with lucario, I settled on the SD set since it has immense offensive presence and puts pressure on my opponent's team.
From here, I decided on the moves, Extreemespeed, Ice Punch, Close Combat. I felt like Extreemespeed would be needed since Lucario is not the fastest pokemon (he's fast, but not that fast). The priority came in handy so many times. The Close Combat is the reason that this set was even considered. Granted anyone who has CC is powerful, but Lucario has some advantages in his resists and the moves he is immune to. Most importantly, he is immune to poison, so he can take advantage of a fairy type team mate. While he's also immune to toxic, which many defensive walls run. Lucario has the power after a SD to obliterate many defensive walls in the metagame. Ice Punch I felt would be needed for the omnipresent genie and for Latias.

It became very clear, that Gengar would be a huge pain for this set to get past, especially since Steel lost it's ghost type resist. E-speed means also that Lucario has no way of hitting Gengar before it makes it's attack, so I chose a special defensive Tyranitar (with an assault vest) as a team-mate to check Gengar. This Tyranitar set has proven particularly effective in testing.

I already mentioned having a fairy type team-mate was important for this set, so I decided to use Sylveon, though at first, I was unsure what set to use on it. I settled on the specs set after a while, but originally, I was unsure about this spot, I tested a lot of things (including Dusknoir, of all pokemon) Sylveon is proving his worth, but the Specs set requires a lot of prediction.

With Tyranitar invested in special bulk, and Sylveon having the DEF stat of a paper bag, I needed a physically defensive Rotom-W to act as a pivot, and to help check Lando.

This slot was one I struggled with a lot. Lucario's chosen moves (and notable lack of steal-type attack) made my team Clefable weak, while I also needed a pokemon to setup rocks. I felt like Ferrothorn would be the best bet, and I tried to work out what kind of attack he would need in order to do enough damage to fairy types with his Gyro Ball. I also realized that Slowbro was a big problem for the team so he carries dual stab and SR.

Lastly, I needed a mega, and I felt like I needed a Ghost Type. I also wanted something that was more of a tank on the physical side. At first I felt like Sableye was a natural choice, but I did doubt myself a lot on what moves he should run. Currently, I want him to be something he's not I think, a stallbreaker set.

And then I decided to nickname everyone after an Element.

Posting this thread gave me a lot of help, and the team improved though my battling style was a little bit off for it for a while.

After a bunch of testing, I switched Ferrothorn out for Ballontran at the suggestion of D-Raven and I messed around with the Sableye set.

With Sparkl3y's suggested Sableye set the pokemon was putting in work. I realized the team was now more about Sableye and less about Lucario. I also realized that heatran wasn't quite giving my team what it needed, I decided to test out gliscor and it's working out rather well. Currently its a weird baton pass set, which seems to be working out alright. This 'forced' me to remove BP from Sylveon, so I tacked on HP fire to destroy steel types.

Iron (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch/Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance

The man, the legend, Lucario. Lucario serves as my offensive powerhouse. He exists to break holes in my opponents defensive cores and smash heads open with Close Combat. The primary reason I felt like this could work is people are still using Chancey and Ferrothorn. Lucario loves these slow defensive pokemon as they lack the hitting power to truly take him out before he destroys them. Kibblekat told me to swap to an Adamant nature as you nab key KOs that you miss with Jolly (and there isn't really anything I outspeed anyways other than Altaria, and maybe Jolly Bisharp but who uses that??). Close Combat is the point of the set, Extreme speed gives me some priority meaning that he can knock out a weakened opponent before it can revenge him. Ice Punch was chosen to fully obliterate dragons, and to give me something to hit Lando with. It can also nail Gliscors who lack EQ (I've seen it, alternatively it can nail them on the switch if they are trying to predict a close-combat). It also deals significant damage to Venusaur-Mega. At first I swapped over to Iron Tail on a whim, to test it out, I found that it did pretty much whatever Ice Punch did but it Made him a much bigger threat to Sylveon and Clefable. This is important because those two pokemon can setup for free on Mega Sableye. With this set, Lucario is kinda serving to help open the door for M-Sableye to start setting up. Iron Tail also 1shots Diancie.​

Silicon (Tyranitar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Dragon Tail

This set began as a silly idea while I was playing XY. "Hey, if I put AV on Tyranitar he basicaly gets double Spdef because of sand!" Thus, AV Tyranitar was born. AV does mean that he can't really do much support for the team, but he still hits really hard. Stone Edge is his primary STAB move that I find myself going to a lot (and I kick myself every time it misses). Crunch is a reliable way to remove a Latios from the game. With this much special defense, even a Draco Meteor will harmlessly bounce off of Tyranitar. Earthquake gives additional coverage for things like Heatran which would wall this set otherwise. Dragon Tail is kinda the odd move out. It does work with AV, and it helps me counter setup pokemon who want to come in and gather up calm minds ('cept clefable, who happens to be immune to dragon :/ ) I have noticed that when I use this set, as soon as Dragon Tail is revealed, people start switching fairies into him on the predicted dragon type move, but the first time they see it it usually catches people off guard. Tyranitar has this way of forcing people to switch out, and Dragon Tail can take advantage of that. Changed Dragon Tail over to Pursuit, at the suggestion of DarkNostalgia and others. Pursuit does the same thing that Dragon Tail did only it actually kills Gengar, rather than bopping what they sent in. However the strangest thing about this set, is I added it to counter Gengar, who typically carry focus blast. A bit concerned, I ran a calculation.​

Hide

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 232 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 184-220 (46.1 - 55.1%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO
(184, 188, 188, 192, 192, 196, 200, 200, 204, 204, 208, 208, 212, 212, 216, 220)

After I saw that, I wasn't so worried. I can live 1 hit, and that is assuming he hits me! Crunch on the other hand is a 1shot, no matter what set the gengar runs, even if I had 0 attack EVs.

Hydrogen (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 40 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt/Pain Split

Rotom-W is my main defensive wall and serves as a check to Lando-T. Volt-Switch helps me build momentum and allows a safer switch for some of my more frail team-mates. Will-o-Wisp racks up passive damage and is a big threat for people switching around, especially if they want to switch in a dragon dance sweeper like Dragonite or Altaria. Hydro Pump is required for Rotom-Wash but it also is a big threat to Lando-T, and usually forces it to U-Turn or get obliterated (unless I miss). Hydro Pump can also deal heavy damage to pokemon that don't resist water. I went with Thunderbolt as a more spamable stab attack and as a way to deal more damage to bulky water type pokemon who resist Hydro Pump and can take a volt-switch with ease (such as Slowbro) Pain split was chosen as a method of recovery but it also allows this pokemon to deal damage to Chancey, which otherwise it can't do anything against. Pain Split allows it to exploit special walls and get all it's health back.​

old Ferrothorn set

Silver (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

I struggled a lot with these next two pokemon, and I have finally got a set here that I at least feel can do the job I asked it to do. I wanted a way to check Clefable. The given EVs allow me to 2HKO defensive Clefables after SR and Leftovers. Everything else went into bulk. Power Whip I felt was needed for Mega-Slowbro who could setup on this pokemon otherwise. Leech Seed is my only method of recovery. I stuck the helmet on there to punish the U-Turn spam you tend to see these days. Stealth Rocks are very important for my team, and Ferrothorn has plenty of chance to set them up due to his seeming invincibility.​

Platinum (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Taunt
- Baton Pass/Knock Off/U-Turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake​

Where to begin with this set. At first it might look strange, but it's your standard SR Gliscor at least in terms of HP and Speed, however, I wanted to use a variant with Baton Pass. Originally there was a heatran in this slot, but I found myself heavily invested in special attackers doing that, and I thus lost to teams with a strong special wall if Lucario got taken out early. This set also serves as a tank for hits that might go into Lucario and Tyranitar, he covers the team really well. Currently I am using SD Baton Pass because I love the idea that he can start the setup, and then when the opponent switches in what they think is a counter I can BP to either Lucario or Tyranitar, both of whom greatly appreciate a swords-dance. (Alternatively I could play a bit more "standard" and run Knock Off and Taunt, Knock off gives me something to hit floating opponents with as currently this set can't do anything about a balloon.) As always, this is the space on my team devoted to rocks, and this guy has proven a little better at it than balloon-tran. EQ is chosen as the primary attack as it is his most powerful move. Max attack was invested so that I can 2HKO common walls after 1 Swords Dance, and even without the boost, noone expects Adamant, the extra damage comes in handy for the rest of the team. Also somewhat considering Rock Polish over SD to help out against HO teams.​

Carbon (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 64 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Taunt
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

TYVM for this set Sparkl3y! I donno what I would have done without it. First of all, CM Sableye is a natural pair with SD Lucario, and for reasons Kibblekat suggested I have decided to go with Shadow Ball (it also hits Gardevoir harder than dark pulse, and this team is kinda weak to Gardevoir.) Shadow Ball and Dark pulse have nearly identical super effective coverage but the big advantage to Shadow Ball is the Spdef drop chance, giving me a chance to win CM wars (and I have fought so many CM wars with this set and things like Cresselia/Slowbro). Recover means that he stays healthy and it can also be used if he hasn't mega evolved to heal off some prior damage. WoW is actually essential for winning CM wars as well, as the passive damage can really rack up and you only have so many recovers. Calm mind gives you that bost and after a few calm minds there are very few things that can take a Sableye out of the game, but this set has to Mega Evolve safely. Sometimes I lead with it but it's very risky as many times I need it as my win condition.​

Argon (Sylveon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Baton Pass/Hidden Power Fire

This set, is quite strange, I won't lie I have had more doubts about this set than any other on the team. However, even with my doubts, it does put in work. Before I started using it I wasn't convinced, but after seeing Argon obliterate pokemon in 1 hit from a neutral Hyper Voice, I was sold. Hypervoice is a very strong attack, and being a sound move, it goes around subs! This fact alone makes this pokemon wonderful against sweepers who rely on hiding behind a sub, thinking they can tank hits with it. Shadow Ball hammers Skarmory and other physically defensive steels really hard, it also hammers Metagross. Psyshock is there to deal with opposing Sylveon, and most of the things that would do super-effective damage to Sylveon, its also handy for Venusaur. Baton Pass is there so it can build momentum or if I think my opponent is about to make a switch. It also forms a janky pass-turn core with Rotom. I switched over to HP Fire since due to the Gliscor set I was forced to because of BP clause. I didn't really miss it as I appreciate the power to 1shot ferrothorn over the janky prediction nature of BP on this set.​

And there we go, that's the team. This is my first RMT on the form and I'm making it because I need help. I wanted to try using Lucario on the ladder but my team still has glaring weaknesses I didn't think about. Despite the amount of time I spent trying to counter every threat there are still threats out there that annihilate my team.
Threatlist!
Talonflame is a somewhat large issue, but only if Rotom and Tyranitar are taken out. Keeping rocks up are important against Smogonbird as always. Lando, captain of the millenium falcon is also a big problem. I'm speaking of incarnate form specifically as HIS focus blast CAN 2OHKO Tyranitar reliably even through the sandstorm, and he deals way too much damage to Sableye with his earth power for that to be a good counter. The T form is somewhat of an issue if Rotom is gone, but it depends on what set it is. A scarf set can't hurt Gliscor, but a fully defensive set means that I'm relying on predicting it with a Hydro-Pump or stone-edge in order to take it out. As mentioned Clefable is also a massive problem, though in this regard I'm particularly afraid of the unaware variants. Magic Guard is irritating, but assuming I can get my Swords Dance off Espeed should still 2HKO. (Iron Tail is an option I keep turning over though since it does OHKO after a swords dance, Unaware is an issue but Irontail still 2HKOs it, and if they have no Calm Minds they can't do enough damage to Lucario before it destroys them.) Another big problem is Sylveon since Hyper Voice is strong and threatens so much of my team, that it's often left to do as it pleases weather its wish-protect or Calm-Mind. On that note Mega-Gardevoir can also be a big issue since I have no real counter to it and to beat it Tyranitar will have to be full health. Also Sableye and Gengar are still massive problems to the team as Lucario cannot eat a shadow-ball and Sableye typically carries Will-o-Wisp (which has priority under prankster) If Tyranitar is gone and Sylveon weak then either of them can destroy my whole team. Another big problem is Excadrill since he's faster than Lucario anyways and Mold Breaker variants are quite dangerous. As expected M-Lopunny is the perfect counter to M-Sableye, but all hope is not lost, Sylveon just needs to be at full HP to avoid getting knocked out by a Return. A SD e-speed is enough to knock it out, but otherwise it is very dangerous to the team, Rotom gets 2HKO'd by return and it has an annoying habit of dodging my Hydropump.

IMPORTABLE latest (and most likely final) itteration

Iron (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance

Silicon (Tyranitar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Pursuit

Hydrogen (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

Platinum (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Carbon (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

Argon (Sylveon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]

 

[D-Raven]

Well since you have some problem with clefable talonflame and sylveon i would recommend using tauntran instead of ferrothorn, another useful fix without changing your team base is using scarfgardevoir instead of sylveon as it can act as a revengekiller aand even check mega sableye (it get 2hko by moonblast even at +2)
while having trace gives you an incredibile amount of switch in. i would also recommend using pursuit on ttar to ensure the kill on gengar or even the latwins. I'm sorry but i can't post the sets i'm talking about because I'm currently on mobile; hope I've helped.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Hi there, nice team, man! (EDIT: Ah, Raven, you beat me to it :) Pursuit is mandatory on T-tar, replace Dragon Tail)
Some EVs just need to be cleaned up, I think -
Lucario can run an Adamant Nature, since Dragonite and Altaria don't run max speed + jolly/timid. The only Pokemon you tie with is Jolly Mamoswine, so this can be considered I guess. Also, you could consider a steel move such as Iron Tail, since Clefable is a problem to your team.

(Ferrothorn is not a counter. +1 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 68 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 244-288 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (You can't win 1v1, and some Clefables run 0 speed so Gyro Ball won't do as much.)

Tyranitar's set is quite good, I'll edit when I have more time to do calcs.

I see that you are running 40 speed on Rotom. The standard is 44 speed, which lets you outspeed max speed Jolly BD azumarill, which lets you wisp it or volt switch out before it Play Roughs you. Also, you might consider running Rest or Pain Split over Thunderbolt, since your team doesn't really have reliable recovery and Rotom gets worn down easily due to it's low HP.

I don't really see what Sableye is doing for your team, as your team is pretty offensive and not really stall-ish, and has problems with Clefable and Mega Gardevoir, as you said, so I would suggest Gengar over Sableye. Your team does pretty well against Talonflame, since you have Tyranitar and Rotom, and Gengar manages to check Clef and Gardevoir pretty well. This also solves your Mega Slowbro issue.

The usual set for Ferrothorn is 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef. A specially defensive set works, so run Sassy. If you would like, you could try out Thunder Wave over Gyro Ball (If so, run Careful Nature), which allows you to nail Charizard and Talonflame on the switch.

At the moment, your team is pretty slow, so I would suggest a Scarf Togekiss, because flinches are awesome which allows you to revenge kill stuff whilst still retaining the ability to beat Mega Sableye as well as rely on flinches to stop potential threats to your team.

So the sets:

Sets

Iron (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP (Makes Life Orb do less)
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance

Hydrogen (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry (If using Rest)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt/Rest/Pain Split

Silver (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet/Shed Shell
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP, 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Aura Sphere

I'll post more when I can test your team out! Hope I helped and good luck laddering!

 

[D-Raven]

Maybe scarfkiss isn't a wise choice, he doesn't have a spinner or a defogger so with sr on it can switch in just 4 times that's pretty awful

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Hm... I guess Scarf Garde might work for your team, since your other teammates don't need spin/defog support too much.

 

[Kibblecat]

Hey - I tend to lurk a lot but haven't posted much in the years I've been playing pokemon, but as an old lag from Gen4 I couldn't resist on a Lucario team :D

Just a couple things to sure up what you've already got there -

Tyranitar

Assault Vest T-Tar is a great check to Gengar as you say but Tyranitarite provides a number of other benefits, even with the same EV spread that you're running (I'll get to Sableye below). Even at max SpA investment Timid Gengar still can't get near a 1HKO against Mega Tar in Sand, although it does take slightly more than against Assault Vest. Stone edge in return still 1HKOs even in the absence of Crunch (see set below, he runs out of move slots)

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 232 HP / 252 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 248-292 (62.1 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 274-324 (104.9 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Running Tyranitarite allows you to use Dragon Dance instead of one of your coverage options, therefore adding a further win condition to teams which check Lucario (as much as I love him, it's undeniable hes' fallen from his OU glory this gen for reasons and you of course should be expecting teams to deal with Luc easily unless you play conservatively). He still checks Gengar and most other threats just as well (be wary of Keldeo even in Sand; can't switch in on Scald for that burn chance and STAB Secret Sword speaks for itself) but does so with a higher base Atk, Def and Spe and the chance at a free boost on targets he can force out at the cost of a little special bulk - which as shown above doesn't stop you from checking your primary concern anyway. The better Def gives a better check to Bisharp too, although he doesn't give you too many problems unless you let him set up.

Leaves you with this:

Tyranitar@Tyranitarite
Adamant w/ Sand Stream
232 HP / 24 Atk / 252 SpD
Dragon Dance / Stone Edge / Ice Punch / Earthquake

I'll leave you to play around with EVs based on the improved Atk and SpD stat that Mega-Tar gets, should you choose to take up the mega suggestion, as I'm presuming they're tailored around some specific 1/2HKOs. Ice Punch hits more of Tar's common checks than Crunch does while still including Latias, but be wary that you'll need that +1 from Dragon Dance to hit it as the Mega set usually just runs plain Atk and Spe investment. This will still check what you want it to while gaining the benefits of Tyranitarite and capitalising on not being locked into attacking moves any more. The only lost utility is Dragon Tail, which you're not gaining an awful lot from anyway as you're not relying too hard on entry hazards and anything

Sableye
Running Tyranitarite does of course leave your Sableye without his mega slot but based on your team building you seem to have anchored him in there to fit a sub-optimal role so I'm going to throw out a lot more ideas just to help you think through your options here. Arguably the Mega CM set makes a good stall breaker without needing taunt (in a Reuniclus/Clefable-esque 'I'll out-boost your stall' kinda way), or you can stall break with normal Sableye who cashes in on having Prankster Taunt - he just has to be careful with switching in on status or Leech Seed. To remedy this you can go one of a few ways:

- Improve the stall breaking capability, keep the ghost type, but lose some defensive presence and anti-lead capabilities
- Keep the anti-lead and stall breaking capabilities while losing out on some defensive presence and a ghost type
- Switch him entirely for a more offensive Ghost-type(/not Ghost type) stall breaker
- Pull in an even harder to break wall who can't be stalled out, but doesn't strictly 'stall break'

So for the first of the 'few ways', you can keep Sableye as a non-mega and allow him to stall break which works a little better than the mega set because of Prankster, but is unfortunately pretty easy to break through due to his lacklustre stat line. This isn't necessarily a large issue as you're running a bulky Tar, fairly bulky Sylveon, and a Ferrothorn (the former two of which can force many targets out thus pulling you into a free turn, albeit prediction dependant with Sylveon). Alternatively, Jellicent, who loses out on Prankster and gains common weaknesses, but takes neutral and resisted hits much better while being very well grouped up with Ferrothorn (and Tar who nicely covers the resistances that Ferro lost in XY which previously made Ferro/Jelli a godly defensive pairing). She also provides a better switch in to Scald than Rotom, who when not carrying Pain Split really hates the burn chance, and gives you double switch bait to pull in Tar and to a lesser extent Luc granting them set up opportunities:

Jellicent@Leftovers
Bold w/ Water Absorb
252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Scald / Will-o-Wisp or Toxic / Recover / Taunt

Second of the 'few ways' which involves sacking the Ghost type - granted its a big sacrifice but you already cover Ghost's resistances/immunities well across the rest of the team. However you can pull up better stall breakers this way. Good examples are standard Stallbreaker Mew and Taunt/Bulk Up SpD Talonflame. Mew fits well as his weaknesses are covered and supported elsewhere in the same way that Jelly's are, and Mew can also provide Defog support while keeping your access to Knock Off. Talonflame's weaknesses are also covered nicely by the rest of your team and he provides an alternative EQ immunity and alternative priority for revenge killing, as well as a surefire way of beating Mega Venusaur that doesn't rely on prediction with Sylveon's Psyshock - Talon's perhaps not the same fit as other defensive stall breakers but as devils' advocate I wanted to say that it's an option. Finally here there's Espeon - Sub-CM with Magic Bounce provides anti-lead and fights stall to the extent that it deters set-up, although you'll be stall breaking by out boosting rather than taunting. From here you can go offensive, or baton-pass (which provides potential strong plays with Sylveon where even resistant targets will take a chunk from buffed specs Hyper Voices, which is even more threatening behind a sub), or both should you choose only one of Sub/CM. I won't paste the sets here as Stallbreaker Mew, Bulk Up Talonflame and Offensive Baton Pass/Sub CM Espeon are all pretty standard and found on the Smogon Strategy Dex.

Third of the 'few ways' involves running Gengar yourself who breaks stall with Sub-Disable and/or Perish Song, forcing switches. Again, almost standard and you've thought through preparing for Gengar here so you know what he can do and how he does it, so I won't paste a set in. An alternative at cracking open stall cores is Specs Gothitelle who, even if she only gets one kill, can break open a hole for Luc or Tar, although she's not really the most beneficial option here due to you already including Specs Sylveon, so I wouldn't consider her too seriously.

Fourthly of the 'few ways' - an even harder wall. Naturally, Chansey comes to mind here as while the Pink-Blob doesn't strictly 'stall break,' she isn't handled well by many stall cores (not being bothered by status) and by forcing the opponent to pull physical offence out to break through her you've pseudo-stall-broken which can give you switching opportunities to bring your own checks around. Her fighting weakness is covered in Sylveon and to an extent Rotom-W and she handles status better than nearly all of the previous options, but she's total taunt bait, which is why I left her til last as she's the biggest departure from the previous three options and the role that you already had there.

Small things

Lucario - Justified over Inner Focus because it's just plain better. Inner Focus prevents flinch hax of which there's really nothing that threatens Lucario with it as even if they're already set up they'll just 1HKO you anyway. Protects you from Fake Out, that's it, which isn't enough of a reason to turn down the occasional free Attack boost when switching in on certain things. To the same tune, Adamant > Jolly because he doesn't outspeed anything in particular with Jolly and the power drop is noticeable at his mediocre unboosted 110 Atk, especially without STAB on ES. All of that's to the tune of the Strategy Dex, only basic research, so feel free to present some calcs to justify the power drops, but to use your examples - whether unboosted Altaria or Dnite 1HKO you or not you don't want to take the first EQ from either of them to set up and and you can't 1HKO Dnite without set up, regardless.

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 218-257 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 53-62 (16.4 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO

In short, Jolly doesn't make him an answer to Dragonite unless you've broken Multiscale or your opponent tries to set up on your ice punch, and even then he'll outspeed after one boost and you can't finish with unboosted ESpeed. If he doesn't set up, he still 1HKOs with Earthquake. You can 1HKO Altaria when Jolly, but as the only other significantly threatening base 80, losing your ability to break a lot of other threats isn't worth it just to outspeed her when unboosted she isn't a huge threat to your team.
Rotom-W - I touched on it earlier Pain Split or Chesto-Rest is more useful here than Thunderbolt as it stops Rotom from being out stalled and Thunderbolt doesn't gain you any 2HKOs against viable/common opponents, especially as you're uninvested. If you really want spammable electric coverage then run a trickscarf/specs set, but that's not really ideal here and drastically changes Rotom's role to one that doesn't achieve what you want.

Sylveon - I can see your reasoning for using Baton Pass but you might be better off surprising switch-ins with coverage as on a balanced team it doesn't strictly gain you as much momentum as you'd like to think. I've not tested that so if you're using Baton Pass and loving it then feel free to keep it as this is a very subjective and play style based suggestion, but HP Fire or Ground (as per the standard set, again - standard for a reason) will take apart Scizor/Ferro or Heatran respectively. When it comes to choice-locked attackers, I understand its a common misconception to always prioritise getting the kill then being forced out yourself over passing into something not choice locked who can capitalise on forcing out the relevant threat (which is the justification for, say, getting a heatran switch in and BPing away to Tar instead of HP-Grounding it yourself) but as you don't have Fire coverage for opposing Ferro elsewhere and as such are reliant on boosted CC on Luc which has all number of drawbacks to relying on, I think HP Fire might serve you well here.

This was quite well thought out as I love the idea of a Lucario team and so wanted to give it it's due! You've covered your bases very well from what I can see but you might do well to post a threat list up based on your testing experience with the team in case I missed anything :)

 

[Pent]

Hey man! Nice team, and I actually really enjoy Lucario's use in OU.
Onto the rate!

First of all, I would make Lucario's ability Steadfast. Since Mega Lopunny is hopping around, and other Pokemon with Fake Out, this let's you get a nice and easy Speed Boost to kill them with a Close Combat. I would also run Bullet Punch > Extreme Speed, this let's you take advantage of a Steel Stab, and let's you take care of Fairies a lot easier than with Extreme Speed.

You say that Talonflame is an issue to your team, but honestly, it walls it rather well. You have Stealth Rock and Rotom Wash, which both help a lot against Talonflame.

You're not running the correct EV Spread on Rotom-Wash to outspeed Azumarill. Run 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe with a Bold nature to guarantee an out speeding burn on Azumarill and a quick Volt Switch outta there.

I usually like to run 3 Special Attackers, and 3 Physical Attackers, and you have a wall for each. So... I would change Mega Sableye to this set.

Sableye

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster --> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Atk
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse

Hope it helps.

 

[Kibblecat]

Hey man! Nice team, and I actually really enjoy Lucario's use in OU.
Onto the rate!

First of all, I would make Lucario's ability Steadfast. Since Mega Lopunny is hopping around, and other Pokemon with Fake Out, this let's you get a nice and easy Speed Boost to kill them with a Close Combat. I would also run Bullet Punch > Extreme Speed, this let's you take advantage of a Steel Stab, and let's you take care of Fairies a lot easier than with Extreme Speed.

You say that Talonflame is an issue to your team, but honestly, it walls it rather well. You have Stealth Rock and Rotom Wash, which both help a lot against Talonflame.

You're not running the correct EV Spread on Rotom-Wash to outspeed Azumarill. Run 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe with a Bold nature to guarantee an out speeding burn on Azumarill and a quick Volt Switch outta there.

I usually like to run 3 Special Attackers, and 3 Physical Attackers, and you have a wall for each. So... I would change Mega Sableye to this set.

Sableye

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster --> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Atk
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse

Hope it helps.

Steadfast is very situational even against Fake Out - if you switch in on it you don't actually flinch so you don't get the speed boost, and there's really no need for Lopunny to use Fake Out on you if you're already in as it outspeeds and 1HKOs with HJK anyway. Even if Luc's already got an SD and can threaten with an ES before Lop can HJK, bopping Luc with a resisted FO isn't worth Lop staying in for unless he 100% knows Luc's *not* running steadfast. Of course this is where play-reading comes into it as the Lop player could use the Fake Out to bluff staying in, then hop out to a Ghost type on the CC/ES. Other FO users (of which the only shakily relevant ones are Infernape, Mega Medicham and Ambipom - Mew and Sableye rarely have the moveslot to give or the need to run Fake Out) either need to switch out before using FO for the same reasons or, in the case of Medicham, aren't threatened by unboosted Luc.

Bullet Punch is definitely a sub-par option over ES there too; neutral non-STAB ES still hits harder than neutral BP, and the only fairies of note that Luc doesn't outspeed are Altaria and Gardevoir; the former is hit hard on the switch by Ice Punch and the latter is 1HKO'd by +2 ES and so can't switch in anyway:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 303-357 (109.3 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

To that end, without a boost Luc has no business staying in on either as Gardevoir 1HKOs with Focus Blast (non mega) or Hyper Voice (mega) and Altaria does the same with EQ. To the same end, if Luc really needs a secondary STAB then Iron Tail is actually the better option although naturally that can't take over ES's slot. The final fairy that might concern Luc is Azumarill using Aqua Jet, who is also hit harder by ES as the Bullet Punch weakness is neutralised by it's water typing.

EDIT: Other fairies I forgot - Togekiss is also hit harder by Ice Punch than Bullet Punch and won't outspeed even adamant Luc without running either timid or a scarf - neither of which are as common as calm/modest sets which require 252 Spe investment to tie with Adamant Luc. Scarf required to outspeed Jolly Luc.
Specs Sylveon with 244 HP / 0 Def is 2HKO'd by unboosted Bullet Punch but 1HKOs in return with Hyper Voice and so can't stay in. Defensive variants can 2HKO Luc but in are only 3HKO'd by unboosted Bullet Punch. In short she can't switch in but forces Luc out unless she lets him get a free boost by a bad play, so again isn't worth using Bullet Punch for, especially not when Iron Tail will guaranteed 1HKO unboosted against both variants of Sylveon.

 

[StarBomber109]

Thanks for the replies guys, currently I have actually swapped over to Iron Tail over Ice Punch for the reasons mentioned, though I did that before I saw any of the replies, I just seemed to arrive at the conclusion myself :P. I did consider BP but isn't Extreeme-speed actually a stronger attack against neutral targets? Thanks for the math btw Kibblekat. I'll swap to Adamant.

@Sparkl3y : I actually did consider running calm mind, thanks for that. I'll give that set a try, it's probably a more natural fit for this team, and for that pokemon.

I donno about justified, there aren't a whole lot of attacks I really want to switch him into (though it does make Bisharp really scared of him.) I have never been a big fan of steadfast either way, as I said, I don't really want to switch this pokemon into strong attacks, even if he resists them I need Lucario to be as healthy as possible. Maybe however, I'm playing my lucario too conservatively. I barely switch it in, when I do its usually to try and nab a free swords dance.

Pursuit over dragon tail, I'll try that as well. Someone suggested tauntran. I did consider heatran, I'll give that a try, the issue is Heatran is weak to ground while Ferrothorn was at least neutral to it.

At this rate I'm going to run out of Elements for nicknames lol.

As to the Scarfdevoir idea, I'm not opposed to it, but I feel like there are better scarf users out there for this team. Scarf Latios may even be able to do the hazzard removal for me, and serves as a far stronger revenger.

 

[4daptability]

Hi.

Despite Lucario being one of my favorite mons, I don't think that it's quite viable in ORAS, especially due to the increased amount of Pokemon that resist ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch such as M-Metagross, Excadrill in Sand, or completely wall Lucario in general, like M-Sableye or M-Slowbro. In my opinion, Lucario's main niche in ORAS is probably a Nasty Plot lure set with Flash Cannon, ideally used on teams that need bulkier Pokemon such as M-Venusaur and Clefable removed (MegaManLand teams come to my mind) that need a check to Bisharp (with Vacuum Wave).

If you insist on utilizing Swords Dance Lucario, my recommendation would be to pair it with the likes of Grass Knot M-Metagross and carry Ice Punch to aid in breaking down Landorus-T for a Metagross sweep. For this team in particular, I would recommend changing Tyranitar's set from Assault Vest to Choice Scarf, as though it allows Tyranitar to trap Gengar and Lati twins, should it be pivoted into a Shadow Ball/Psyshock, respectively. Swords Dance Lucario also appreciates entry hazard support to ensure certain 2HKOs and OHKOs at +2.

 

[Sablenite]

Standard Mega Sableye for sure, you may want to replace Lucario's Ice Punch with Bullet Punch. Don't use Scarf Latios or you will increase your Fairy Weakness.

 

[Kibblecat]

Thanks for the replies guys, currently I have actually swapped over to Iron Tail over Ice Punch for the reasons mentioned, though I did that before I saw any of the replies, I just seemed to arrive at the conclusion myself :P. I did consider BP but isn't Extreeme-speed actually a stronger attack against neutral targets? Thanks for the math btw Kibblekat. I'll swap to Adamant.

@Sparkl3y : I actually did consider running calm mind, thanks for that. I'll give that set a try, it's probably a more natural fit for this team, and for that pokemon.

I donno about justified, there aren't a whole lot of attacks I really want to switch him into (though it does make Bisharp really scared of him.) I have never been a big fan of steadfast either way, as I said, I don't really want to switch this pokemon into strong attacks, even if he resists them I need Lucario to be as healthy as possible. Maybe however, I'm playing my lucario too conservatively. I barely switch it in, when I do its usually to try and nab a free swords dance.

Pursuit over dragon tail, I'll try that as well. Someone suggested tauntran. I did consider heatran, I'll give that a try, the issue is Heatran is weak to ground while Ferrothorn was at least neutral to it.

At this rate I'm going to run out of Elements for nicknames lol.

As to the Scarfdevoir idea, I'm not opposed to it, but I feel like there are better scarf users out there for this team. Scarf Latios may even be able to do the hazzard removal for me, and serves as a far stronger revenger.

I don't know that I strictly suggested Iron Tail over Ice Punch, as Ice Punch hits more of the threats that would otherwise wall Lucario, but then most of them will outspeed anyway (Chomp, Latios/@s, Scarf'd Lando-T, Lando-I, Thundu-I, etc.) so it's mostly only for hitting things on the switch. Iron Tail at least hits many of the slower fairies (namely Sylveon who you otherwise have trouble breaking through unboosted without losing a chunk of Luc in the process, Clefable, and non-scarf'd non-timid Gardevoir before she mega evolves), which also opens you up to using a more standard Ferrothorn who will take hits better than the well-tailored one you've got now - which is actually quite a good plan as Clefable often carries Flamethrower. Either could work well, try them both out. Each will run you into some good situations and some problems. Shame about that miss chance on Iron Tail.

Justified isn't an excuse to force him into dark type attacks, resisted/weak/not, it's just plainly a more applicable ability than Steadfast or Inner Focus. Even if Inner Focus prevents a Fake Out flinch, as outlined above any FO user who bothers FO'ing you has made a misplay or at worst wasted several seconds of their life and a FO PP, since in all situations it doesn't change whether the FO user will win or lose 1v1 with Luc. The only situation where they benefit from bopping you with a Fake Out is if Luc's already well dented(/worn down from Life Orb) and it will kill Luc outright. Other flinch users of any kind (Gyara/Azumarill/insert Waterfall user here, Paraflinch Kiss/Jirachi, anything wielding Dark Pulse) will either win without needing a flinch hax OR will lose regardless of getting one. In short, I can't envisage any situation at all (bar one very exact one below) where preventing a flinch will make a difference, making Inner Focus an almost wasted ability - regardless of how aggressively you try to use Justified. Similar problem with Steadfast - he already skips out on Jolly because he outspeeds everything he needs to with Adamant, and so the occasional (hax'd/otherwise) speed bonus isn't going to win him any games even despite +1 Spe opening a few more doors than the bonus from Jolly (thus why he doesn't really ever need to run Agility sets either). So, in short - I'm not saying you should use Justified in order to switch him in on every dark type attack. Luc's way too frail for that and he's already getting worn down by LO, rocks/spikes and occasional rough skin/iron barbs/rocky helmet. I'm saying you should use Justified because it's the least wasted of all of those abilities and there are way more situations where it will make a difference. There'll be lots of times where it can in fact save you whole turns where taking a +1 is enough to become the win condition while taking a turn to SD could lose enough momentum to force you back out.

(That one situation where Inner Focus might matter: Luc and Lop/other non-bulky FO user either are both leads or switch in together. FO user makes the misplay of using FO instead of just 1HKOing/switching, Inner Focus prevents flinch and Luc gets SD up. Luc now threatens 1HKO with ESpeed or relevant coverage (if Luc outspeeds).)

Just to reiterate (and I'm glad you seem to agree thus far anyway) purely since it's been mentioned again by someone else - Bullet Punch on Luc is not beneficial.

 

[StarBomber109]

Hi.

Despite Lucario being one of my favorite mons, I don't think that it's quite viable in ORAS, especially due to the increased amount of Pokemon that resist ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch such as M-Metagross, Excadrill in Sand, or completely wall Lucario in general, like M-Sableye or M-Slowbro. In my opinion, Lucario's main niche in ORAS is probably a Nasty Plot lure set with Flash Cannon, ideally used on teams that need bulkier Pokemon such as M-Venusaur and Clefable removed (MegaManLand teams come to my mind) that need a check to Bisharp (with Vacuum Wave).

If you insist on utilizing Swords Dance Lucario, my recommendation would be to pair it with the likes of Grass Knot M-Metagross and carry Ice Punch to aid in breaking down Landorus-T for a Metagross sweep. For this team in particular, I would recommend changing Tyranitar's set from Assault Vest to Choice Scarf, as though it allows Tyranitar to trap Gengar and Lati twins, should it be pivoted into a Shadow Ball/Psyshock, respectively. Swords Dance Lucario also appreciates entry hazard support to ensure certain 2HKOs and OHKOs at +2.

Dude I have always wanted to use NP Lucario, I messed around with that idea a LOT when BW came out. The biggest issue with the set is that it lacks the strong priority move. Your only priority move on that set is Vacwave, and if you run that you leave yourself open to many threats that you are unable to KO using it, and you also miss out on KOs that the SD set can score which the NP set can't, because close combat hits much harder than aura-sphere. Also back then, Jellicent and Tentacruel walled the NP set completely, and its the same story now.

I also wanted to reply and say that I've been using the 'standard' mega sableye and its been doing WORK, that pokemon is so strong, as long as I can mega-evolve safely he can win the game by himself. The Calm Mind set is definitely the way to go. Thanks again!

@Kibblekat that was the primary reason I swapped to Iron Tail when I did, I wanted to test it out to see if it worked better. The miss chance is kinda a pain but so far it's been working fine. I found in a lot of my games testing this out that Mega-Sableye ends up being my win condition, and Iron tail has become important to check things like Sylveon that are big threats to Mega-Sableye.

When I come up with a team that can get over 1400 I'll make some edits to the OP, thanks for all the help so far guys. Edit: With the way I tend to use my Lucario now I almost wonder if Choice Band is the way to go (and if that then the only reason I'm using him over Terrakion becomes e-speed, I'll stick with SD a bit longer but I might give CB a test or two.)

 

[4daptability]

Dude I have always wanted to use NP Lucario, I messed around with that idea a LOT when BW came out. The biggest issue with the set is that it lacks the strong priority move. Your only priority move on that set is Vacwave, and if you run that you leave yourself open to many threats that you are unable to KO using it, and you also miss out on KOs that the SD set can score which the NP set can't, because close combat hits much harder than aura-sphere. Also back then, Jellicent and Tentacruel walled the NP set completely, and its the same story now.

I also wanted to reply and say that I've been using the 'standard' mega sableye and its been doing WORK, that pokemon is so strong, as long as I can mega-evolve safely he can win the game by himself. The Calm Mind set is definitely the way to go. Thanks again!

@Kibblekat that was the primary reason I swapped to Iron Tail when I did, I wanted to test it out to see if it worked better. The miss chance is kinda a pain but so far it's been working fine. I found in a lot of my games testing this out that Mega-Sableye ends up being my win condition, and Iron tail has become important to check things like Sylveon that are big threats to Mega-Sableye.

When I come up with a team that can get over 1400 I'll make some edits to the OP, thanks for all the help so far guys. Edit: With the way I tend to use my Lucario now I almost wonder if Choice Band is the way to go (and if that then the only reason I'm using him over Terrakion becomes e-speed, I'll stick with SD a bit longer but I might give CB a test or two.)

The point NP on Lucario isn't to sweep unprepared teams late game, but rather support the M-Manectric + Landorus-T core by OHKOing problematic Pokemon such as M-Venusaur and Clefable at +2 that otherwise threaten the two. Vacuum Wave would be specifically used for the likes of Bisharp, which flourishes from double Intimidate. Given the power creep of the newer ORAS Megas I feel that this is the only set Lucario can run without truly being completely outclassed by the likes of Bisharp, who boasts of a much STAB priority attack. In general, +2 ExtremeSpeed sounds great on paper, but considering the fact that it will never break through M-Slowbro or M-Sableye, or even OHKO M-Gallade at full HP makes me question why I would use Swords Dance Lucario over any other priority sweeper in this current metagame, given the great amount of support it requires to be successful.

By no means am I trying to convince you that NP Lucario is a better fit for your specific build, but that realistically speaking Lucario is much better used as breaker to support other dominant threats regardless of its set.

 

[StarBomber109]

The point NP on Lucario isn't to sweep unprepared teams late game, but rather support the M-Manectric + Landorus-T core by OHKOing problematic Pokemon such as M-Venusaur and Clefable at +2 that otherwise threaten the two. Vacuum Wave would be specifically used for the likes of Bisharp, which flourishes from double Intimidate. Given the power creep of the newer ORAS Megas I feel that this is the only set Lucario can run without truly being completely outclassed by the likes of Bisharp, who boasts of a much STAB priority attack. In general, +2 ExtremeSpeed sounds great on paper, but considering the fact that it will never break through M-Slowbro or M-Sableye, or even OHKO M-Gallade at full HP makes me question why I would use Swords Dance Lucario over any other priority sweeper in this current metagame, given the great amount of support it requires to be successful.

By no means am I trying to convince you that NP Lucario is a better fit for your specific build, but that realistically speaking Lucario is much better used as breaker to support other dominant threats regardless of its set.

Right I get that, and that would probably end up being a whole different team, but that's a team built around a different set of pokemon that uses lucario to get rid of a threat. I wanted to build a team around lucario to eliminate his counters so he could punish opponents. I didn't really have a 'core' in mind when I started this teambuilding. I only had in mind that Lucario would be on it, I feel like the core has kinda turned into Lucario and Mega Sableye, even though they accomplish similar roles they do it in different ways. Though I do have a small question about the Mega-Sableye set that Sparkl3y posted earlier in the thread, why does it only have 1 attacking move? I understand what Will-o-Wisp is for, its to take advantage of that prankster while you have it to mess with your opponents, but couldn't you run Shadow Ball and have better coverage? Or is their coverage about the same?

Edit: I wonder how this process would go in Ubers with Lucarionite....hmmm.

 

[Sablenite]

Shadow Ball has advantages, like being able to hit Gardavoir harder, but Normal (Chansey) is completely immune and can PP stall.

 

[Kibblecat]

Right I get that, and that would probably end up being a whole different team, but that's a team built around a different set of pokemon that uses lucario to get rid of a threat. I wanted to build a team around lucario to eliminate his counters so he could punish opponents. I didn't really have a 'core' in mind when I started this teambuilding. I only had in mind that Lucario would be on it, I feel like the core has kinda turned into Lucario and Mega Sableye, even though they accomplish similar roles they do it in different ways. Though I do have a small question about the Mega-Sableye set that Sparkl3y posted earlier in the thread, why does it only have 1 attacking move? I understand what Will-o-Wisp is for, its to take advantage of that prankster while you have it to mess with your opponents, but couldn't you run Shadow Ball and have better coverage? Or is their coverage about the same?

Edit: I wonder how this process would go in Ubers with Lucarionite....hmmm.

Only the one attacking move is really all it needs to become a win condition. Dropping WoW actually loses you versatility (one wants to use the word 'coverage' if not for it's usual meaning) as it stops Sableye from checking a lot of physical threats and almost entirely prevents you from deterring many of his common switch-ins. The choice between Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse just affects what threats you need to remove before Sableye can set up to finish. Chansey is reliably dealt with by Luc and as the rest of your team could be threatened by a few fairy types (namely Azumarill who can almost freely spam Play Rough against your switch ins and reserve Superpower for Ferrothorn, although granted you at least check her in a few ways), plus the fact that you've got decent dark STAB already on Tar, I think you'd actually gain most here from using Shadow Ball as Luc already threatens the normal types thus setting up your secondary win condition.

Back onto Luc

To maintain as much of a degree of neutrality here as possible, I think the point Victini is making isn't that you need to change your Lucario's win condition (thus altering the team entirely). The point is more than Lucario (SD/NP/Not) isn't going to be a very successful win condition, but also that you're more than capable of altering Luc's aims in the team without altering the team heavily at all. I'm only saying this because while you seem to be aiming at setting up a Lucario sweep with Mega Sableye and Tyranitar, you're much more likely to set up a Mega Sableye sweep with Lucario and Tyranitar. It's not a flaw with the build of your team, but more of a better way to think about playing with it.
For further clarification, consider how win conditions work. You have two clear win conditions on the team (SD Luc and CM Sableye), and any others will depend on you coming up against an opponent who is seriously underprepared for either of your two other offensive threats (AV Tar and to a lesser extent Specs Sylv). So next, consider which is going to be your win condition more often and what needs removing to set that up. There's no hard facts to prove this other than the fruits of playing with the team a lot, but I still don't think anyone's arguing here: you will get many more opportunities to set up with and win with Mega Sableye than you will with SD Luc. It doesn't take two glances at usage stats or viability rankings (heck, even tiering - sure he'll do a job here but Luc is UU by usage for a reason) to predict that.Next point on Luc - is Nasty Plot conceivably capable of being a win condition, and can it support your other win condition? Well, it can find opportunities to set up and can clean up teams with its checks and counters removed, so yes, in the simplest terms of it being a set up sweeper. Although Luc and, in particular, this set have difficulties in today's OU, we can forget the whole viability issue for now and focus on the simple concept of how we win games - by identifying a primary win condition and using the rest of our team to remove it's checks/counters and give it opportunity to set up.

So now you need to consider the pros and cons of NP vs SD. Since we've already established that you will find many more chances to set up and finish teams with Mega Sableye (no arguments on that point, it's a fact in OU. If Luc could rival that it would get the same usage as Sableye, to drastically oversimplify the reasons why pokemon get usage, but well.. it's UU. Do the math) you need to consider Sableye your primary win condition and Luc your secondary one regardless of who you built the team around. What this means is you need to decide which Lucario set will support Mega Sableye the best, not the other way around.

Is SD the better set in this situation? Probably, as it can break Chansey and all fairies bar Klefki more effectively, while still threatening Lopunny with +2 ES, who're the most significant checks to a Mega-Sableye sweep. However, to point out your gripe with NP being walled by Jelly and Tenta (neither of which are anywhere near common anymore - heck, Jelly's RU and Tenta's UU) - neither of them can touch Mega Sableye as his ability repels status while he gets free set up, Recovers off residuals from Scald burns, and beats them with STAB Shadow Balls which Jelly is weak to and Tenta can't recover from therefore them walling Luc isn't a concern to you because they're not what he needs to remove. Along the same lines, NP Luc gets both Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball, and Aura Sphere isn't actually needed as Vacuum Wave is there for Mega Lop, and you already check Tyranitar, nicely with the rest of your team (while anything else that walls NP Luc isn't a concern for Sableye).
TL;DR - you don't need to change the Lucario set, but don't over invest yourself into winning games with Lucario when Sableye will more often be your win condition and Luc the one removing his checks/counters especially as across his STABs and ES Luc removes Shadow Ball Sableye's checks almost perfectly. You'll just get yourself into bad plays for the sake of your Lucario ego. Lucario and Sableye support each other really well (and you've complemented them nicely with Sylveon and Tyranitar) but part of the learning curve here will be accepting that Lucario isn't going to be your most reliable win condition. There'll definitely be games where he is the win condition, but there'll be more games where Mega Sableye is the win condition.

Basically, if you pick how you run your Lucario for the right reasons you'll start to make better plays with it in games and you won't be so quick to write off the NP set as I think it does have some pros over the SD set here (even though I'd keep the SD set too, personally).

 

[StarBomber109]

Thanks to everyone who posted in the thread, I've made a bunch of changes to the OP. Again I can't thank you guys enough for all your input, the team is starting to come together. I shifted away from using ferrothorn and started testing out Gliscor. The set is all kinds of crazy but I'll probably shift it back to standard before long (or I'll change to Rock Polish, not sure.)