Veni, Vidi, Vici (OU Gen4)

[george182]

Veni, Vidi, Vici
I came, I saw, I conquered​

Item: Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid

• Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam
• Thunderbolt
• Rapid Spin

I chose Starmie because its a really powerful threat to the metagame. Starmie can rip offensive teams apart with it's great STAB and awesome coverage. While defensive teams have their entry hazards constantly under threat, which is amplified by Starmie's ability to annihilate spin blockers with it's powerful Hydro Pump. Starmie takes the lead position due to it's awesome lead match-up and it's ability to prevent stealth rocks from staying up. Starmie also pairs up surprisingly well with Gyarados, Starmie lures out Grass, Electric and Water types, and is capable of tearing these pokemon apart on the switch in. Using both Gyarados and Starmie allows me to use Starmie more aggressively as I still have Gyarados to switch into the same type of attacks. It also allows me to keep Gyarados hidden longer than usual as I can bring Starmie out early game. Obviously, Starmie's main selling point is its ability to easily remove stealth rocks due to it's huge threat to Rotom forms. This is really helpful for an offensive team, especially when using Gyarados.

Item: Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
Nature: Adamant

• Spore
• Substitute
• Seed Bomb
• Focus Punch

Brelloom is such a great pokemon just abusing any opportunity to set up and then causing a tonne of damage. I chose a bulky spread so I can set up on Scarf Flygons, it also allows me to use an adamant nature so I can 3hko defensive Rotom and 2hko offensive Rotom with seed bomb. Brelloom has great synergy with Gyarados, abusing the watertypes that wall Gyra and luring in pokemon like the Rotom forms weakening them enough so Gyarados can sweep.

Item: Pasho Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 180 SAtk / 80 Spd
Nature: Mild

• Fire Blast
• Earth Power
• Stealth Rock
• Explosion

Heatran is the best Stealth Rock user in the game due its great bulk, typing and offensive threat. I'm using Pasho berry Heatran for many reasons, primarily as a back up check to offensive Suicune, but it also helps against Starmie and Gyarados. I'm using a bulky spread to help out against sub roost zapdos, who is a just a pain. Explosion is here to help Starmie and Jolteon sweep through Blissey/Snorlax based teams. Heatran has good synergy with Gyarados, luring out water types early game and then exploding to take them out, or allowing Brelloom to switch in and get set up. For the evs I maxed out HP, then took 4 evs away so that stealth rocks do 1 less percent damage, I have 210 speed out-speeding most walls such as Gyarados, Heatran, Rotom, Skarmory, Suicune, Cresselia etc. and then the rest goes into special attack with a mild nature so Heatran hits like a truck. Mild nature powers up explosion and Heatran rarely takes physical attacks.

Item: Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP / 156 Atk / 196 Spd
Nature: Adamant

• Dragon Dance
• Taunt
• Waterfall
• Stone Edge

I chose Gyarados because its really easy to set Gyarados up to sweep because Gyarados has great bulk, intimidate and he walls loads of common pokemon. Gyarados threatens both offensive and defensive teams with his huge attack and bulk, good type coverage and access to taunt. The ev's allow me to take an offensive Suicunes HP electric even after Stealth rocks (64.9% - 76.8%). The speed ev's give me 247 speed which allows me to out speed all Scarf Flygon after two dragon dances. 156 attack and an adamant nature provides a respectable amount of fire power allowing Gyrados to tank it's way through teams. I chose Stone edge over bounce because bounce is easily exploited and Stone edge nails Dragonite. Gyarados works really well with this team and is especially effective if I can remove my opponents stealth rocks.

Item: Macho Brace
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Nature: Brave

• Gyro Ball
• Earthquake
• Trick Room
• Explosion

Bronzong comes in to solve my Dragonite, Tyranitar and Metagross trouble, while making a potent sweeper against offensive teams. Many offensive teams have nothing to stop Bronzong tanking through their speedy teams. Against defencive teams Bronzong can just constantly threaten the explosion, luring out Rotom everytime allowing it to be weakened for a Gyarados sweep. Bronzong can actually 2hko offensive Rotom. Macho Brace boosts the power of Gyro ball by a tone, allowing Bronzong to 2hko/Ohko pokemon it normally couldn't.

Item: Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid

• Thunderbolt
• Shadowball
• Hidden Power [Ice]
• Charge Beam

Jolteon is great offensive pokemon, thunderbolt is a really good stab move to have as very few pokemon resist it. Charge beam is a nifty move for finishing off pokemon, and potentially leading to a Jolteon sweep late game. Jolteon pairs up nicely with Gyarados as Jolteon gains HP from random electric moves aimed at Gyra. Jolteon helps out defensively against Rotom forms, Zapdos, water types etc. Jolteon also makes a good revenge killer checking Gyarados and Dragonite.

 

[AB2]

Hello george182! This seems like a good team, although you seem to be running an inefficient EV spread or two that could be tweaked to help the overall performance of this team. It also seems that Jolly Agiligross is going to give you immense trouble as after an agility, which is easily obtained on Jirachi, nothing on your team can outrun it. Breloom is the closest pokemon to a check to be honest that just isn't cutting it, especially if you have slept something earlier in the match. Also, Jirachi's EV spread seems to be inefficient. The amount of speed invested does not really tie or outrun anything or importance besides being able to speed tie with Sub Calm Mind Jirachi, which is very uncommon anyways. Although you can tie with Zapdos and Gliscor, both of those 'mons don't have the ability to harm you to the extent that you should be worrying about them anyways. If you would like a faster Jirachi spread I would use 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 Spe which allows you to outrun Jolly Swords Dance Lucario and Timid Calm Mind Suicune. Since you don't want your Jirachi to lose to Calm Mind Suicune, this is the best spread to use so that you won't be investing in any more speed than you need to. A pokemon that would work particularly well on this team would be Defensive Zapdos over Gyarados. With Zapdos you still get to keep a good core with Breloom and you can also have an extra Lucario check it and Jirachi as well. You have stall covered very effectively with the combination of Starmie | Breloom | Calm Mind Jirachi anyways, so Zapdos can work effectively over Gyarados as it will help you check Jolly Agility Metagross which can be a huge threat to this team.

Defensive Zapdos

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold 248 HP | 228 Def | 32 Spe Pressure
Thunderbolt | Roost | Hidden Power [Ice] | Heat Wave

Other than that, this team seems solid. Good Luck.

 

[Smith]

Solid crew george! I'm glad somebody else has the common sense to run max speed Wish Cm Jirachi. Anyways, this team is actually pretty solid but, of course, being dependent upon a fwg core has its problems against shrewder players. I'd say the biggest threat would be Dragon Dancers- Flygon, of course, stops most of them on the revenge, but you can't rely on him in all instances. DD Extremespeed Dragonite, for example, is incredibly difficult to deal with. The other major threat would be Shuca Berry + Ice Punch Tyranitar- laugh if you must, but I happen to know several good players that will use it (one such player 6-0d me with it in the lead position). Flygon obviousy cannot stop it, and neither can breloom. Kingdra is also worrying- RD sets can pretty much sweep you cold.

As such, I think a good fix might be a bulkier spread on Gyarados- specifically, RestTalk. This makes stopping the above threats much easier, and gives you phazer to deal with their setups. It also gives Starmie even more flexibility so as to when you want to play it without having to worry about countering threats. You lose a taunter but I don't think thats highly necessary- Skarmory and the like are well handled by the time. If you want to keep some offensive momentum but still maintain the bulk, you could also consider the mono-attacking set to keep as a late-game sweeper or stall breaker (in a last man position, stall teams have absolutely no way of stopping it save Rotom, who is more likely than not out of the picture thanks to the efforts of your Starmie).

I might also fix up Heatran's set a bit- Will-o-wisp, in my opinion, is best used as an emergency stop to the likes of DD Dragonite or Tyranitar (which again, are very problematic for this team); but I think this would work better if he had a Shuca Berry. Without it, he'll die to an EQ before he can do anything. It would also help in keeping Shaymin at bay. I just don't think Leftovers are necessary, as Jirachi actually does a good job against many troubling special attackers. You might also change Protect, because it no longer earns the Leftovers recovery you wanted to us it for before; probably Earth Power or Hidden Power (Electric) for coverage.

That's actually all I have, solid team. I hope this helps!

EDIT: Oh and dump Jirachi's extra point into spdef- that way Download Porygonz gets an attack boost instead of a special attack boost!

 

[george182]

Thanks for the reply AB2, I use max speed on Jirachi to outrun Gliscor, as Gliscor has base 95 speed, so it maxes out at 317. I then maxed out Jirachi's speed to tie with Shaymin, Zapdos and other Jirachi because the 40 ev's wouldn't do much anywhere else. Agility metagross with thunderpunch will pretty much always sweep me, but I'm not keen on the suggestion of Zapdos. I would loose my strongest Heatran check (Starmie/Flygon are frail) and the whole team is set up to support a Gyarados sweep, so removing Gyra would probably make it weaker.

Thanks for the reply Smith, you always post good rates. I don't have that much trouble with oposing Dragonite as my Gyarados will prevent them from sweeping. Gyra's intimidate can make it easier for my other team members to take a hit. Gyarados also forces Dragonite to Outrage, as a max attack, life orb, adamant dragon claw only does 62.7% - 74.1%. A Dragonite locked into Outrage can be Revenge Killed by either Flygon, Heatran or Jirachi. I don't want to use a restalk Gyra as it will make the team more passive, and this team is more about constantly putting pressure on the opponent. I also loose Gyra great ability to sweep offensive teams, and taunt Gyra is also more useful against Stall, he does more damage to Rotoms and can set up without relying on being the last poke. I really like the suggestion of shuca berry on Heatran, it gives me a last resort against Tyranitar and Metagross and Shucatran is generally quite useful. I would also take your suggestion of removing protect as without leftovers it becomes somewhat useless, but I will need to do some testing to find a replacement.

 

[bubbly]

Hey george, you asked for a rate so I figured I'd try and post something before I go to bed :)

This is a really solid team and its difficult to see too many problems with it. Smith mentioned ShucaTar and Kingdra (btw I would follow his suggestion of Shuca + WoW on Heatran), which are definitely threats, but in addition your team could struggle with SD Lucario and LO Starmie in particular.

Starmie's a pretty obvious threat; it one and 2HKO's everything on your team, and you basically will only beat it by winning the speed tie with your own Starmie, or if the opponent lets it get U-turned by Flygon.
Lucario doesn't look like it should be a threat, what with Gyarados and the fast Jirachi, but Lucario can simply set up another SD on Gyarados and it doesn't take that much from Jirachi's Psychic.

Specially defensive Heatran and CM Jirachi have a lot of redundant defensive coverage, since they're both typically used to check Grass and Electric types and to take Dragon attacks. In this case I think you could definitely replace one of them. Heatran's your Stealth Rock user as well as being your only real way of threatening a lot of Steel types and obviously fits into that nice FWG synergy, so I'd suggest keeping it in the team, but using a SubRoost Zapdos in place of your CM Jirachi.

Now, obviously Zapdos helps out against Metagross, Starmie and Lucario, and some other minor threats like Gyarados. It also gets great offensive synergy with Breloom and Heatran. However, without Zapdos you actually have an issue with opposing FWG cores. Your Starmie is the only pokemon on your team which can really threaten these cores and as your lead I assume it often doesn't last long into the match. Zapdos lets you wear down FWG pretty reliably and none of the checks to it which are springing up are problems for your team to deal with.

Hope this helps out. Congrats on making a nice team :)

 

[Eggbert]

Nice team, but as said you basically give any team with an agiligross an easy win. Dragonite is actually pretty threatening as your steel types can't directly threaten it. CM Rachi isn't really effective in this current metagame; Heatran, who is on like 35+% of the teams walls it and forces Gyara to take SR and such for free, is a solid counter. Common Scarf Flygon, Metagross, and DDtar easily stop it as well.

A quick fix to this would be to try running Offensive TRzong over Jirachi. It might sound like a weird poke to use, but it is really effective right now. It walls metagross incredibly well, it can lure in and 2HKO Rotom (who can't OHKO back even with overheat) with resisted Gyro Ball and explode on bulky waters that think they can wall it. It stops Kingdra, TTar, Jirachi, and Flygon as well. I used it similarly to lure in waters for a nite sweep and it works really well. Here's the set:

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Brave, 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 6 SpD (0 spe IV)
-Trick Room
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Explosion

 

[george182]

I tested out the changes suggested.

I tried out Sub roost Zapdos, using Mach punch on Brelloom to help against Tyranitar. However I realized how dependent I was on Jirachi for checking Lucario, Gengar and Suicune and with stealth rocks in play, Zapdos could not do the same.

I really liked the option of Bronzong over Jirachi, helping me out against Metagross, Tyranitar and Dragonite. I had to change Brelloom to a Shaymin though, otherwise water types and Lucario would crush me. After testing this team seemed less effective offensively, but much more solid defensively. I have updated the team with these changes to see what people think.

 

[BKC]

Cool team but Breloom looks really problematic. It comes in on Flygon's EQ and 2HKOs everything on your team at minimum (bar Gyara but he's walled). I think you should try a CM Celebi over Shaymin due to its similar typing and ability to set up in Loom's face.

the set is

Celebi @ Leftovers | Timid | EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Calm Mind | Recover | Energy Ball | Earth Power

The speed EVs outrun max speed Suicune so you can beat it in a CM war.

That's all I got for you. Cool team and good luck!

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I really like this team, but I see a tiny problem right off the bat. Your scarfer, flygon, is actually very slow in relation to everything else. Faster scarfers like infernape and starmie (lol never used but effective), anything with boltbeam+stab coverage is gonna be rollin on the hurt. My best suggestion would be to fit either a vaporeon or suicune on-bulky waters in general can shrug off most stab attacks and won't take too much from a close combat or thunderbolt, depending on how much you put in to the defenses.

Also, the bronzong: nothing on your team is designed to be slow, so why trick room? if you're only using trick room on bronzong, why explosion-that gets you out of the way fast for other slow pokes. I would suggest removing either trick room or explosion and replace it with hidden power ice to combat the dragons. also, take off macho brace and add leftovers, as gyro ball almost always gets max power, even without macho brace.

 

[IARETEHNOOB]

This is a great team! My only question is how do you deal with fighting types? I'm not sure what I'd change on the team to deal with them without messing up what you already have.

 

[bubbly]

I suggested Zapdos earlier to partially help out vs Fighting types :) But Bronzong is definitely a solid choice. However I've got to agree with BKC's suggestion of a bulky CM Celebi now. I prefer running my Celebi with enough speed to outrun Adamant Lucario, which is a -massive- threat (it can simply set up another SD on Gyarados and take out another two or three pokemon before LO gets it).

Anyway, I really like how this team is developing so congrats on a nice job :)

 

[george182]

Anyway, I really like how this team is developing so congrats on a nice job :)

Bump, Changed Shaymin to a Specs Rotom-W

Thanks bubbly, I posted the team to make progress.

I really liked the idea of Zapdos, but if I was unable to remove stealth rocks, having both Gyarados and Zapdos often caused me to loose. So after testing I have decided to use Rotom-W, helping out against Brelloom, Stall, Sub roost Zapdos, Agility Metagross, Lucario etc. But I don't really like this team at the moment :S

 

[Fayne]

Your team is incredibly Breloom weak. Every time Flygon doesn't use U-Turn or Outrage, that's one guaranteed kill for Breloom. If Breloom comes in on Bronzong as it sets up Trick Room, the incoming explosion is really obvious and this can be foiled with a simple double-switch out into a Steel/Rotom-A. Outside of that, Bronzong cannot touch it. The same can be said for Gyarados; Breloom beats it one versus one no matter what you do. If you taunt, that's a free seed bomb for your hard work and if you don't you'll risk a Spore. Breloom outspeeds Sp.Defensive Heatran and has enough bulk to survive a T-bolt/Hydro Pump from Specs Rotom-W with enough health for spore + substitute in a last ditch effort. In short, Breloom sets up against five members on your team and you lose a member each time it switches in (plus one member will be consistently asleep). I think that is enough reason to warrant Breloom as a legitimate threat.

For afforementioned reasons, I second BKC's suggestion of replacing Celebi over Rotom-W, who has now replaced Shaymin. As bubbly suggested, you might want to consider running extra speed EVs to outspeed Lucario to obtain a more reliable secondary check in Celebi. Specs Rotom-W isn't really doing anything for this team (how does it help out against subroost zapdos?), while Celebi covers all of what Rotom-W can cover (Lucario, Suicune, Gyarados etc.) your team appreciates the much required unambiguous answer to Breloom.

 

[george182]

Bump!

I have been putting a lot of thought into the team and I have decided to reduce my Brelloom weakness by removing Flygon. Bronzong is a solid check to most speedy threats and the rest of team is also covered against them. I now have 0 choiced pokemon :D

 

[Chris Pepps]

Solid team with no obvious problems. I would definately listen to BKC and use Celebi because Celebi is THE breloom Counter. You could also do with another pokemonwith a resistance to fighting type moves and Celebi is useful for this also. Some of your EV spreads look a littel odd This could be deliberate but if it is not I advise you look at the smogon strategydex to find out what EV spreads are commonly used on your pokemon.

 

[zapdos=god]

I dont know what in the world a trick room bronzong is doing on your team with pokemon like Jolteon and DD Gyarados. Instead I would recommend a dual screen Bronzong which I find really helps your team.
The Set is:
Bronzong @ Light Clay
Relaxed
252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
Moveset:
~ Reflect
~ Light Screen
~ Gyro Ball / Earthquake
~ Explosion

I feel this really helps your team sweep such as your DD Dragonite and your Spore puncher Breloom

 

[Bowl Cut]

Despite the changes you've made to this team, Breloom still remains a massive threat. It sets up versus Bronzong not under Trick Room and Gyarados, who will not like the risk of a hard-hitting Seed Bomb when you Taunt to prevent Spore. I think that Celebi would work well in your own Breloom's place due to its ability to counter opposing Breloom perfectly - with a Calm Mind set, you can retain the offensive momentum this team relies on. Try the one BKC suggested as it fits the bill perfectly:

Celebi @ Leftovers | Timid | EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Calm Mind | Recover | Energy Ball | Earth Power

One other thing I'd like you to try is HP Electric over Earth Power on Heatran. Without a Shuca Berry, Earth Power becomes near useless - HP Electric, on the other hand, will let you get rid of Starmie and Gyarados without resorting to Explosion. Overall, nice team, good luck.