Volt-Turn's still a thing, Right?

[JustLetMePlay]

Volt-Turn's still a thing, Right?

Introduction

With the advent of the Sixth Generation, came an influx of new Pokemon, new Abilities, new Moves and a plethora of new toys to play with. But seriously, screw that jazz. Living in the past is where it's at. I've made a team that shuns the sixth generation (alright, fine, except for ONE thing) because who the f*** wants to deal with change? A Volt-turn team at heart, if you're looking for a standard team that thrives on living on the edge, prediction and having next to no way to deal with some extremely common threats, look no further - I've got the team for you.

In-Depth

Who the fuck let me into OU?​

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Genesect @ Choice Scarf​

Ability: Download​

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd​

Naive Nature​

- Flamethrower​

- Thunderbolt​

- Ice Beam​

- U-turn​

​

Seriously, who was it? Genesect's back in OU and Volt-Turn's stronger than ever for it. This stupid bug is so easy to fit on a team that a monkey could do it. Which is convenient for me because I'm terrible at this game. This thing forces so many switches, checks so many threats and grabs so much momentum that it's actually ridiculous. As one half of the 'Turn' in my Volt-Turn core, Genesect is immensely useful for checking fast, non-priority, non-scarfing threats and U-turning out of unfavourable situations (read: Heatran) into a better match-up. It's always first mon displayed in my line up to fake the obvious lead against teams carrying Heatran. Hint: I don't have to lead with him

F*** you, Talonflame.​

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Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Intimidate​

EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spd​

Jolly Nature​

- Earthquake​

- Stealth Rock Knock Off​

- Stone Edge​

- U-turn​

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Standard Offensive Pivot Landorus-T forms the second half of the 'Turn' in Volt-Turn. In addition to this role, he functions as an offensive SR setter and is my first scarecrow for Talonflame (though he needs to be wary of the WoW variants which thankfully haven't seemed to have caught on just yet). Landy's role is clear, check and weaken physical attackers, maintain offensive momentum and get SR up when the opportunity arises. There's a lot of pressure on Lando-T to absorb powerful CCs and other fighting type attacks that the rest of my team does not take well so it's imperative that I play him with an iota of intelligence. After some debate and some extensive testing, I've come to the conclusion that Knock Off may be a better use of the SR moveslot. This puts large amounts of pressure on the opponents whenever Landorus-T forces a switch and punishes the common switch-ins such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Trevenant etc. heavily for their trouble.

Double F*** you, Talonflame.​

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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers​

Ability: Levitate​

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk​

Bold Nature​

IVs: 0 Atk​

- Pain Split​

- Hydro Pump​

- Volt Switch​

- Will-O-Wisp​

​

Rotom-W is on my volt-turn team, heck Rotom-W is on an OU team. What a fucking surprise. The obvious choice to providing Volt Switch to complete a Volt-turn core; Rotom-W is just so God damn good at the moment, it was impossible to make a team without him included. With such a physically oriented meta-game, being able to switch in and out with momentum on your side and spread burn is a blessing. I prefer Pain Split to the ChestoRest set because spending a turn to Rest absolutely kills your momentum and honestly, I don't see it providing all that much more longevity. Honestly, just don't get Toxic'd. Rotom-W also provides a much needed water resist and another reliable EQ switch-in.

Seriously, Talonflame. Go Away.​

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Heatran @ Leftovers​

Ability: Flash Fire​

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef​

Calm Nature​

IVs: 0 Atk​

- Lava Plume​

- Protect Stealth Rock​

- Roar​

- Toxic​

​

Heatran, Rotom-W and Lando-T form an unholy trio that sends Talonflame down into the fiery depths of hell where it belongs. In actuality, I don't even think Talonflame is that big of a threat, and it's actually just a coincidence that this team happens to be so anti-Galewings. SpDef Heatran has always has a soft spot in my heart and this generation is no different. While the metagame is skewed heavily towards powerful physical attackers, there are definitely noteable threats on the special side as well, and Heatran provides a solid defence against them. In fact, pretty much my only defence against them. Those common threats that I was talking about? Rotom-W is one of them, and I'm so desperate for a way to get rid of it, that I actually use Heatran as my anti-Rotom-W mon. BUT THAT'S CRAZY you may say, and you'd be right, but you'd also be surprised at how often it works out. With the given EV spread Protect and Lefties, Heatran is 3HKO'd by Hydro Pump at full health, and Rotom-W loves WoWing switch-ins on mons it forces out so a free switch-in and flash fire boost is quite on the table. Once in, tanking a hydro pump to get a toxic off sets a permanent timer on Rotom-W's life span at best, and guarantees a turn of momentum for me at the worst as they Rest to get rid of the status. Heatran also has the obvious role of walling opposing Genesect, taking status and not caring and phazing silly set-up mons. With Lando-T prefering to use his time Knocking off items, it falls to Heatran to set up SR, being a defensive pivot without U-turn or Volt-Switch, SR gives Heatran a valuable job to perform when it forces switches from the likes of Genesect. It will miss being able to scout Choice'd moves with Protect but that was a fairly niche use anyway.

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Why am I so unloved? :'(​

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Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers​

Ability: Teravolt​

EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd​

Lonely (:[) Nature​

- Fusion Bolt​

- Ice Beam​

- Dragon Claw​

- Substitute​

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Kyurem-B, the wallbreaker from hell. This thing is so damn good, I don't even. Finding a mon to set up on is so easy, with the likes of non-Gyro Ball Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and the Pink Blobs floating around and once Sub is up, something is going to die. Personally, I'm a fan of Leftovers over Life Orb because I don't run a Spinner or a Defogger (#yolo) and SR weakness + Substitute runs poor Kyu-B's health down extremely quickly without leftovers, let alone with Life Orb recoil. Kyu-B packs plenty of oomph without it anyway, it's actually a monster. Why is this thing not used more often again?

I WILL CUT YOU.​

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Aegislash @ Spooky Plate​

Ability: Stance Change​

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk​

Quiet Nature​

IVs: 30 Spd​

- King's Shield​

- Shadow Ball​

- Sacred Sword​

- Shadow Sneak​

​

TCR's suggestion of Mixed Aegislash as a Wall Breaker has prompted some thinking on my part. Initially suggested as a replacement for Heatran; however despite appearances on paper, Heatran has performed admirably in testing, being a surefire answer to Genesect and many other prominent threats in OU and has proven irreplaceable on this team. As such, unfortunately, I've decided that Kyurem-B's role as wallbreaker is to be usurped by the ol' shield 'n sword and boy has it proven to be an asset - luring in Rotom-W and Landorus-T and breaking them down beautifully. It also alleviates some of the issues this team has with Kangaskhan, being a reliable boost-stopping switch in that can threaten back with Sacred Sword. And finally, trading a SR weakness for a resistance is a welcome change in a lineup that doesn't carry RS or Defog.

CC CC CC CC CC.​

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Lucario @ Lucarionite​

Ability: Inner Focus​

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd​

Jolly Nature​

- Swords Dance​

- Bullet Punch​

- Close Combat​

- Ice Punch​

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Honestly speaking, Mega-Lucario is here so I don't auto-lose to Mega-Kangaskhan, because that thing is borked. Even then, I have to play a pretty scary game, finding a time to safely M-evolve so that Jolly Kanga doesn't just steamroll over me with +2 Earthquake or Return or forcing enough damage down its throat that Bullet punch will KO. Please run Adamant, guys, it makes my life so much easier. That said, M-Luc brings more to the table than just being a Kanga-check. Ice punch is by far the most effective coverage move on Lucario, in my experience, since Lando-Ts and Gliscors love coming in and sponging CCs. Usually, a well placed fist of ice into the gullet shuts them up pretty hard though. Since I don't really play Luc as a sweeper and instead use him quite conservatively, more often than not, he actually cleans up late game really well, even without a SD boost.

In Conclusion:

Honestly, in addition Mega-Kang and Rotom-W being problems as described above, this team also has issues with Azumarill (Rotom-W being my only solid line of defence and even then, does not take Play roughs on the switch well at all) and Conkeldurr (Guts variants carrying Ice punch are very difficult for me to deal with, and often require me to sac at least one mon), but despite these weaknesses (which are difficult, but definitely manageable with smart play and risk assessment), it's honestly been a very solid team in my experience. You might think lack of Hazard Removal would be an issue, but, honestly the team, with the exception of Kyurem-B and possibly Genesect, isn't all that Hazard weak. Sticky Web is occasionally a problem but it doesn't seem to be gaining any traction in popularity.

THE END​

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Oh, except the importable, fuck.​

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar
- Toxic

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Spd
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Here's some shameless bragging and a little bit of a showcase of how this team plays and what it can accomplish: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68029344

 

[tcr]

Hey man, this is a really good team! I ended up having to look at this my entire econ class (tho thats probably why it took so long to give a good rate). First off, i absolutely love this team, which is a huge paradigm shift from my attitudes 5th gen, when i absolutely hated voltturn. However, I love how you use pivoting to wear down walls, and end in a lucario sweep. However, as you stated azumarill really gives you issues, and i think a nice wallbreaker will help you out some as kyurem b struggles with the SR+Sub situation you mentioned. Heatran also seems to be deadweight almost, and seems to be a pivot against draco spamming, but it really loses your momentum outside of switching in off dragon type attacks. It really opens you up to azumarill offense and requires you to play predictiob games with landorus and staying in for the play rough.

As such, try running KS Mixed Aegislash as a buffer for azumarill. It helps open up things early game, and normally shafting KS on mixed aegislash is generally bad, i feel it fits your team by patching up a weakness to non EQ mega kang, as well as azumarill, and gives lucario time to switch in and mega and hopefully punch holes in the opposing team. Running mixed only makes Lucario's job easier, luring in stuff like physically bulky volcarona, rotom w(hates shadow ball), and skarmory. Fire typed attacks arent really that prevalent outside talonflame, and lucario outspeeds most variants anyway (64, 164 spe variants to be exact) and you have two nice counters in landorus and rotom-w, not to mention KS makes talonflame dookie. Having a ghost type pokemon also reeeally helps in shutting down opposing SD Mega Luke as nothing on your team wants to take a CC combined with rocks and a follow up move (lando gets worn down easily).

Next, having rocks up kinda fucks with your team, as kyurem cant switch in as well. I think running Roost and a bulkier spread gives you nice survivability. However you lose a coverage move, and quite honestly i think getting rid of Fusion Bolt is the most beneficial as ice beam and dragon claw let you lure in and ko things like rotom w, dragonite, landorus, and gives you two jice STABs. Fusion bolt last gen was really only used for bulky water smashing, but the only bulky water this generation is rotom-w, at least thats used enough to warrant the move, and its hit harder by dragon claw anyway, being able to sub up in its face is really nice as well. By going with a bulky SpD oriented spread you can outspeed and sub on rotom and mess with leads (as well as things like gourgeist). Between it, rotom, and lucario, you check it well enough to warrant the heatran change. Good luck with your team, at the least i hope i sparked some sort of idea!

set

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate/Leftovers
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Kings Shield
- Sacred Sword

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Hey man, this is a really good team! I ended up having to look at this my entire econ class (tho thats probably why it took so long to give a good rate). First off, i absolutely love this team, which is a huge paradigm shift from my attitudes 5th gen, when i absolutely hated voltturn. However, I love how you use pivoting to wear down walls, and end in a lucario sweep. However, as you stated azumarill really gives you issues, and i think a nice wallbreaker will help you out some as kyurem b struggles with the SR+Sub situation you mentioned. Heatran also seems to be deadweight almost, and seems to be a pivot against draco spamming, but it really loses your momentum outside of switching in off dragon type attacks. It really opens you up to azumarill offense and requires you to play predictiob games with landorus and staying in for the play rough.

As such, try running KS Mixed Aegislash as a buffer for azumarill. It helps open up things early game, and normally shafting KS on mixed aegislash is generally bad, i feel it fits your team by patching up a weakness to non EQ mega kang, as well as azumarill, and gives lucario time to switch in and mega and hopefully punch holes in the opposing team. Running mixed only makes Lucario's job easier, luring in stuff like physically bulky volcarona, rotom w(hates shadow ball), and skarmory. Fire typed attacks arent really that prevalent outside talonflame, and lucario outspeeds most variants anyway (64, 164 spe variants to be exact) and you have two nice counters in landorus and rotom-w, not to mention KS makes talonflame dookie. Having a ghost type pokemon also reeeally helps in shutting down opposing SD Mega Luke as nothing on your team wants to take a CC combined with rocks and a follow up move (lando gets worn down easily).

Next, having rocks up kinda fucks with your team, as kyurem cant switch in as well. I think running Roost and a bulkier spread gives you nice survivability. However you lose a coverage move, and quite honestly i think getting rid of Fusion Bolt is the most beneficial as ice beam and dragon claw let you lure in and ko things like rotom w, dragonite, landorus, and gives you two jice STABs. Fusion bolt last gen was really only used for bulky water smashing, but the only bulky water this generation is rotom-w, at least thats used enough to warrant the move, and its hit harder by dragon claw anyway, being able to sub up in its face is really nice as well. By going with a bulky SpD oriented spread you can outspeed and sub on rotom and mess with leads (as well as things like gourgeist). Between it, rotom, and lucario, you check it well enough to warrant the heatran change. Good luck with your team, at the least i hope i sparked some sort of idea!

set

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate/Leftovers
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 SpA
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Kings Shield
- Sacred Sword

Thanks for the rate, buddy! Hopefully I didn't distract you from your class too hard. As always, a very informative and well thought out rating, thank you very much for the consideration you took when reviewing my team. KS Mixed Aegislash is definitely an interesting thought that I will be giving serious consideration and a proper trial run, patching up my weakness to Play Rough using Wallbreakers and providing a PuP blocking switch in to Kang is definitely something I could do with. I am reluctant to let go of Heatran because despite what he looks like he brings on paper, he's contributed valuably to most matches I've been involved in. You are definitely correct in your analysis that he tends to sap all the momentum out as soon as he switches in however, so I'll definitely give dropping him a shot.

Thanks for the Roost suggestion as well, regarding my Kyu-B set. Definitely something I will try out, however, again Azumarill becomes a problem in the absence of Fusion Bolt as it can now come in with impunity on Kyurem B, regardless of whether a sub is up or not. I'll have to weigh up the benefits of increasing Kyu-B's longevity with having to settle for Ice/Dragon coverage.

Thanks, again. Glad you liked the team!

EDIT: And I might be missing something that should be immediately apparent, but what is the deal with the IV suggestion in your Aegislash set?

 

[tcr]

EDIT: And I might be missing something that should be immediately apparent, but what is the deal with the IV suggestion in your Aegislash set?

Oh my bad i thought i included that in the spoiler. It looks like i also messed up the nature, it should be a Quiet nature or a brave nature. Anyway, i run 30 spe ivs so i can underspeed opposing Aegislash, and hit them in blade forme, but thats just me.

 

[Shurtugal]

I'd say this team struggles with wallbreaking, like TCR pointed out with the KyuB with SR + Substitute issues and Heatran being overall deadweight. I like the idea of VoltTurn this metagame, it's a tactic that roots down into mid-BW1 and it's something I've come to respect, and showcasing Lucario is just the bread and butter for me. Kind of reminds me of Eternal's HO VoltTurn, only this is a tad bit more bulkier.

Anyway, I don't think Azumaril is too much of an issue since Rotom-W outspeeds it. However, if you feel like you're switching into Play Rough too much, I'd recommend trying out ChestoResto Rotom-W, which has much more reliable recovery than Pain Split offers and the longevity helps with Azumaril greatly over time.

I'm not sure how well KyuB works this metagame. The SR weakness seems a tad bit overwhelming, and it doesn't really have the oomph to "break" things without a LO either. I suggest replacing KyuB for M-Charizard-Y. Yes, it has a stronger SR weakness, but it does something that is really neat -- it wallbreaks much better than KyuB can (Scarf Gene beats Dragonite so I wouldn't worry about missing out on Ice Beam much) and it makes Heatran's role even more redundant. This is actually a good thing since it was already deadweight already, and this addition will make Heatran completely redundant, which means we can replace him. Anyway, Charizard completely murders Rotom-W and Azumaril while breaking down things like Skarmory and Landorus-T that are otherwise quite annoying for Lucario to deal with. (Also, this means that Zard and Lucario can BOTH utilize the VoltTurn support!)

Heatran can be replaced for something to remove Stealth Rock, like Defog Latias. Latias' Healing Wish and Defog are priceless since Zard-Y and Lucario really appreciate the late-game recovery as well as Healing Wish acting sort of like another U-turn or Volt-Switch in the way that it hands you the momentum right on a platter. Latias is bulky enough to make up for the loss of Heatran as well, and you have Genesect or Lucario to nab momentum on any of the (few) Dragon-types remaining that would punish you for lesser bulky steel-types. I suggest running Leftovers on Latias for maximum bulk.

Lastly, I'd make sure Landorus-T is outrunning at least 272 since Smeargle does hit that, and outpacing 279 at most since that is what Timid Heatran hits. (For less bulk, you can run maximum speed to speed tie Mega-Pinsir and beat Exca and Lucario, although I don't feel that is neccessary, but it is an option if you wish to to try it).

Good Luck!

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I'd say this team struggles with wallbreaking, like TCR pointed out with the KyuB with SR + Substitute issues and Heatran being overall deadweight. I like the idea of VoltTurn this metagame, it's a tactic that roots down into mid-BW1 and it's something I've come to respect, and showcasing Lucario is just the bread and butter for me. Kind of reminds me of Eternal's HO VoltTurn, only this is a tad bit more bulkier.

Anyway, I don't think Azumaril is too much of an issue since Rotom-W outspeeds it. However, if you feel like you're switching into Play Rough too much, I'd recommend trying out ChestoResto Rotom-W, which has much more reliable recovery than Pain Split offers and the longevity helps with Azumaril greatly over time.

I'm not sure how well KyuB works this metagame. The SR weakness seems a tad bit overwhelming, and it doesn't really have the oomph to "break" things without a LO either. I suggest replacing KyuB for M-Charizard-Y. Yes, it has a stronger SR weakness, but it does something that is really neat -- it wallbreaks much better than KyuB can (Scarf Gene beats Dragonite so I wouldn't worry about missing out on Ice Beam much) and it makes Heatran's role even more redundant. This is actually a good thing since it was already deadweight already, and this addition will make Heatran completely redundant, which means we can replace him. Anyway, Charizard completely murders Rotom-W and Azumaril while breaking down things like Skarmory and Landorus-T that are otherwise quite annoying for Lucario to deal with. (Also, this means that Zard and Lucario can BOTH utilize the VoltTurn support!)

Heatran can be replaced for something to remove Stealth Rock, like Defog Latias. Latias' Healing Wish and Defog are priceless since Zard-Y and Lucario really appreciate the late-game recovery as well as Healing Wish acting sort of like another U-turn or Volt-Switch in the way that it hands you the momentum right on a platter. Latias is bulky enough to make up for the loss of Heatran as well, and you have Genesect or Lucario to nab momentum on any of the (few) Dragon-types remaining that would punish you for lesser bulky steel-types. I suggest running Leftovers on Latias for maximum bulk.

Lastly, I'd make sure Landorus-T is outrunning at least 272 since Smeargle does hit that, and outpacing 279 at most since that is what Timid Heatran hits. (For less bulk, you can run maximum speed to speed tie Mega-Pinsir and beat Exca and Lucario, although I don't feel that is neccessary, but it is an option if you wish to to try it).

Good Luck!

Thanks very kindly for the rate, Shurtugal. First of all, as much as I dislike not having passive leftovers recovery, I will give ChestoRest Rotom-W a whirl and see how it pans out. Azumarill is fairly uncommon past 1850 on the ladder in my experience, thank God but when it's on the opponents team, it always puts a lot of pressure on the washing machine. KyuB is honestly fantastic, but I've actually taken TCR's recommendation of a Pivoting Aegislash, and rather than replacing Heatran (who honestly, isn't deadweight, I swear!), I've decided to scrap KyuremB for him as a wallbreaker and see how that all goes. So far, I've broken the 2100 mark (for what little that's worth) on an alt... I don't think I've even lost a game yet, so it's turned out pretty well thus far. This effectively makes my team even less weak to SR (trading a weakness for a resistance) and thus less reliant on a spinner/defogger, so I'll put Latias on the back burner for now. It is definitely an interesting suggestion though, so thanks for the food for thought.

With regards to Zard-Y... I'd love to, but Mega-Luc kind of ruins that idea due to stupid things like, rules.

Lastly, I'll definitely give shifting a little bit of bulk into speed for Lando-T a go. Smeargle's not exactly a huge threat but it's all the rage these days, so I'll make a few changes while the hype is still settling down and outspeeding Timid Heatran will definitely be a plus. Maximum speed is probably not going to happen though. I like my bulk too much.

As a side note: lack of taunt and perish song make intelligently played baton pass teams a nightmare to go up against, I've found, but thankfully, they're so rare that I don't even care.

EDIT: An example of Aegislash wallbreaking like a boss: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-67727956

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Quick bump, I'd love some more feedback, guys. Don't be shy. I don't bite unless I think you'll like it. <3

 

[sagethesausage]

I not a professional rater but I'm quite a decent player who peaked at Top 50 of the OU ladder with my op sandstorm team last gen. For now I'm too lazy to ladder until all the tiering is done.

Chesto Rest Rotom-wash is definitely better as it gives you a second life. If you really want to keep leftovers though, I suggest running Thunder Wave over Pain Split to cripple set-up mons who are immune to will-o-wisp like Volcarona OR hp ice to beat annoying gliscors or at least break their subs. Pain Split is seriously a shit move.


Next you can consider running e-speed on lucario to beat talonflame. But then bullet punch hits togekiss and gengar hard so both has its own merits. Maybe get rid of swords dance since there's not really much chance to use it in this offense-oriented metagame. You might want to consider running crunch to fight jellicent but then everyone seems to favor trevanent over jellicent these days so it might not be a problem after all.

Lastly you can consider running iron head over king's shield on aegislash since king's shield is way too predictable and gives your opponent a free turn to set-up. But then again steel is a terrible offensive type so its up to you.

Anyway, this a good Volt-turn team. But I'm pretty sure genesect will be sent back to ubers soon.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I not a professional rater but I'm quite a decent player who peaked at Top 50 of the OU ladder with my op sandstorm team last gen. For now I'm too lazy to ladder until all the tiering is done.

Chesto Rest Rotom-wash is definitely better as it gives you a second life. If you really want to keep leftovers though, I suggest running Thunder Wave over Pain Split to cripple set-up mons who are immune to will-o-wisp like Volcarona OR hp ice to beat annoying gliscors or at least break their subs. Pain Split is seriously a shit move.


Next you can consider running e-speed on lucario to beat talonflame. But then bullet punch hits togekiss and gengar hard so both has its own merits. Maybe get rid of swords dance since there's not really much chance to use it in this offense-oriented metagame. You might want to consider running crunch to fight jellicent but then everyone seems to favor trevanent over jellicent these days so it might not be a problem after all.

Lastly you can consider running iron head over king's shield on aegislash since king's shield is way too predictable and gives your opponent a free turn to set-up. But then again steel is a terrible offensive type so its up to you.

Anyway, this a good Volt-turn team. But I'm pretty sure genesect will be sent back to ubers soon.

Thanks very much for spending your first post on little ol' me. I'm giving Chesto-rest a go and I think it might just be a matter of preference and lack of familiarity with what hits I can afford to take and what I can't without the lefties recovery, but I'm always hankering for that passive HP regain. There are those rare instances where I wish I had a spore absorber to lead against silly smeargles that it's come in handy though. T-wave is something I'll try out over pain split soon, thanks for the suggestion. I'm not a fan of HP-ice on Rotom-W this gen, especially considering I'm not invested in SpA at all and there are better ways to handle Gliscor/the other quad-weaks.

I've actually deliberated the pros and cons of E-speed vs. Bullet Punch myself and I've come to the conclusion that Talonflame is way more than well handled by my team already and the ability to hit Togekiss and especially Clefable (quite popular at the moment) hard is more useful than a fourth Talonflame check. Gengar's a moot point because M-Luc outspeeds and can Ice punch for just as much damage anyway.

KS on Aegislash is mainly there to escape pursuit, ruin CB Azumarill/other CBers and in a pinch, force 50-50s. I'm not the type to mindless KS every time I'm out of Shield form, I pick my battles carefully. Iron Head doesn't really appeal to me because as you rightfully mentioned, it doesn't particularly add anything meaningful to Aegislash's repitoire which is self-sufficient as is.

Again, thanks very much for your rate and I'm glad you liked it! I'm sure Genesect will be suspected and banned soon, which is why I've decided to post this now, but it's not like the Sect isn't a replaceable member of the team, I'm sure there's a variation that works just fine without Genesect that I'll work on once (if? Nah, once) the ban happens.

 

[Pancham]

This team is actually already pretty great, in my opinion. The only thing I'd change are your current sets for Genesect and Rotom-w. Remove Pain Split on Rotom-w for Rest, and add the item of Chesto Berry. Chesto-Resto makes Rotom-w a much better physical wall, with more reliable recovery.

As for Genesect, I'd change to Physically-Based Scarf, as the most common thing you're going to be doing with genesect is U-turning; So, you'd want your U-turn to be as strong as possible.

Genesect set

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower / Thunderbolt / Extreme Speed

 

[sagethesausage]

I'm actually using a similar volt-turn team to yours with different team members but they perform the exact same role.

I use talonflame over genesect as my u-turner it forces switches even better than genesect (every team these days have a rotom-wash in it). Talonflame also cleans up late game really well.

I use Chansey over Heatran and Gliscor over Landorus-T as my special and physical walls. The chansey-gliscor wall core is impossible to take down without boosts or super effective moves. Chansey can even wish pass to gliscor so that he can wall physical attackers all over again.

Next I use sub roost mixed kyurem-b as my wallbreaker. And a rotom-wash as talonflame check.

For my sweeper/cleaner I use Mega-kanga instead of m-lucario because kanga is much bulkier and gets more opportunity to set-up power-up punch. M-lucario is too frail like a piece of paper imo. Bulky offense is the real deal this gen.

Using Heatran to counter rotom-w is a terrible idea imo because everyone else runs the chesto-rest set except for you. Maybe try blissey or chansey over heatran and see how it works out. If you are insistent on keeping heatran though, I suggest running will-o-wisp over protect to devastatingly cripple physical attackers switching in to use eq on you. You can also consider using air balloon over leftovers so that those dragons will have to hit you with a shitty dragon claw first before they can use eq or scare you out. While they hit you with dragon claw you can will-o-wisp them to render them useless for the rest of the match. Air balloon will also prevent eq users from scaring you out and forcing a switch, giving them one free turn to do whatever the hell they want. You can also consider running roar over protect instead to phase your opponents set-up pokemon hiding behind subs and spread toxic throughout their team.

Another thing is that I would use specially-oriented M-lucario instead because that usually catches ppl off-guard and nets a free ko as your opponent switch in their physical wall. As a plus it easily beats m-kanga with vacuum wave. Plus there's a no shortage of physical walls out there while the usual special walls like chansey, latias, jellicent, ferethorn, heatran and assault vest tyranitar are weak to aura sphere and dark pulse respectively. The damage output of aura sphere may seem inferior to close combat but trust me the surprise value wins games like magic.

Personally I would suggest you give mega-kanga a try. I shit you not its really op.

 

[sagethesausage]

Quick question: How do you deal with smeargle leads? No member on your team is immune to spore.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

This team is actually already pretty great, in my opinion. The only thing I'd change are your current sets for Genesect and Rotom-w. Remove Pain Split on Rotom-w for Rest, and add the item of Chesto Berry. Chesto-Resto makes Rotom-w a much better physical wall, with more reliable recovery.

As for Genesect, I'd change to Physically-Based Scarf, as the most common thing you're going to be doing with genesect is U-turning; So, you'd want your U-turn to be as strong as possible.

Genesect set

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower / Thunderbolt / Extreme Speed

Cheers, Adam. I'm glad you liked it! Physical Genesect hadn't crossed my mind, but there's definitely some logic in the suggestion so I'll put it on the list of things I'll check out. Jesus, there's a lot of love for ChestoRest Rotom-W around isn't there?

I'm actually using a similar volt-turn team to yours with different team members but they perform the exact same role.

I use talonflame over genesect as my u-turner it forces switches even better than genesect (every team these days have a rotom-wash in it). Talonflame also cleans up late game really well.

I use Chansey over Heatran and Gliscor over Landorus-T as my special and physical walls. The chansey-gliscor wall core is impossible to take down without boosts or super effective moves. Chansey can even wish pass to gliscor so that he can wall physical attackers all over again.

Next I use sub roost mixed kyurem-b as my wallbreaker. And a rotom-wash as talonflame check.

For my sweeper/cleaner I use Mega-kanga instead of m-lucario because kanga is much bulkier and gets more opportunity to set-up power-up punch. M-lucario is too frail like a piece of paper imo. Bulky offense is the real deal this gen.

Using Heatran to counter rotom-w is a terrible idea imo because everyone else runs the chesto-rest set except for you. Maybe try blissey or chansey over heatran and see how it works out. If you are insistent on keeping heatran though, I suggest running will-o-wisp over protect to devastatingly cripple physical attackers switching in to use eq on you. You can also consider using air balloon over leftovers so that those dragons will have to hit you with a shitty dragon claw first before they can use eq or scare you out. While they hit you with dragon claw you can will-o-wisp them to render them useless for the rest of the match. Air balloon will also prevent eq users from scaring you out and forcing a switch, giving them one free turn to do whatever the hell they want. You can also consider running roar over protect instead to phase your opponents set-up pokemon hiding behind subs and spread toxic throughout their team.

Another thing is that I would use specially-oriented M-lucario instead because that usually catches ppl off-guard and nets a free ko as your opponent switch in their physical wall. As a plus it easily beats m-kanga with vacuum wave. Plus there's a no shortage of physical walls out there while the usual special walls like chansey, latias, jellicent, ferethorn, heatran and assault vest tyranitar are weak to aura sphere and dark pulse respectively. The damage output of aura sphere may seem inferior to close combat but trust me the surprise value wins games like magic.

Personally I would suggest you give mega-kanga a try. I shit you not its really op.

Yep, it sounds like your team functions quite similarly to mine as well, trading what appears to be my stronger offensive pressure and lack of weakness to SR for better bulk and strong priority. I used Kyu-B at one point as well, and I loved it, but Aegislash definitely fits my team better. Yeah, I wasn't being entirely serious about using Heatran as a 'counter' to Rotom-W, it was more to illustrate that the match-up isn't particularly bad in Heatran's favour. Mainly, my team revolves around luring Rotom-W in and breaking it with powerful hits on switch, which seems to be quite effective thus far. I'm not a fan of air balloon on Heatran, it obviously has its merits, but personally, I'd rather be able to switch him in and out with more freedom and increase his lifespan. WoW on Heatran is again, something I've considered running over toxic, but Lava plume's 300% (approx) burn chance combined with the ability to properly cripple walls and Rotom-W also spreading burn lead me to using toxic instead. I also already run Roar. Perhaps you meant WoW/Toxic instead of Protect? Dual status is pretty interesting, though I'll definitely feel the loss of the ability to scout out Choice'd mons lock in moves.

I'm absolutely open to running special-Luc, I think it's excellent and plenty viable, but I appreciate the immediate power of Adaptability CC and would mourn the loss of high BP moves.

Obviously Mega-Kanga is amazing, I'd just rather not use a second mon that's obviously to be suspect tested in the future.

As for Smeargle leads, they're quite rare higher up so it's not a huge deal in practice, but using a Chesto-Rest Rotom-W set, I can eat a spore with Rotom-W, and Volt-switch out to... pretty much anyone else, most likely Lucario as its a perfect opportunity to safely Mega-Evolve. Rotom-W definitely doesn't like losing Chesto right off the bat, but preventing Sticky Web is a pretty big deal.

 

[Halcyon.]

Hey!

This team is actually pretty solid. I've been sitting here for a while trying to think of a good rate, but there aren't very many visible flaws in the team's structure so it's a bit hard. So really what I have is just a few suggestions which you can choose to take or not, it really depends on how you think the team is doing. I see this team having a bit of an issue with Water-type attacks. Rotom can take them, sure, but repeated Specs Hydro Pumps from Keldeo will wear it down very easily with the current spread. In fact, your team has a bit of a problem with opposing Rotom-W as well. Nothing but your own can switch in, and even that doesn't like taking Volt Switches.

To fix this, I would change Rotom-W to a specially defensive set. I do think the physical sets are better at the moment, but your team has Talonflame covered very well, so I don't think a physically defensive spread is necessary. It will help your team better handle powerufl water attackers such as Keldeo and Greninja, and give it a bit more insurance against opposing Rotom-W. But on it's own, I don't think that's enough. I also suggest using Knock Off on Landorus, and moving SR onto Heatran over Protect. Rotom-W is a common switch in to Landorus-T. If you can catch it with a Knock Off as it switches into you, it can greatly help with wearing it down, especially with your own Volt Turn shenanigans. Knock Off is just a great move in general for Landorus-T, as the defensive Pokemon that like to switch into it hate having their item removed.

I know this rate isn't particularly in depth, but that's honestly because I can't find too many issues with it as a whole. Anyway, good luck with the team!

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Hey!

This team is actually pretty solid. I've been sitting here for a while trying to think of a good rate, but there aren't very many visible flaws in the team's structure so it's a bit hard. So really what I have is just a few suggestions which you can choose to take or not, it really depends on how you think the team is doing. I see this team having a bit of an issue with Water-type attacks. Rotom can take them, sure, but repeated Specs Hydro Pumps from Keldeo will wear it down very easily with the current spread. In fact, your team has a bit of a problem with opposing Rotom-W as well. Nothing but your own can switch in, and even that doesn't like taking Volt Switches.

To fix this, I would change Rotom-W to a specially defensive set. I do think the physical sets are better at the moment, but your team has Talonflame covered very well, so I don't think a physically defensive spread is necessary. It will help your team better handle powerufl water attackers such as Keldeo and Greninja, and give it a bit more insurance against opposing Rotom-W. But on it's own, I don't think that's enough. I also suggest using Knock Off on Landorus, and moving SR onto Heatran over Protect. Rotom-W is a common switch in to Landorus-T. If you can catch it with a Knock Off as it switches into you, it can greatly help with wearing it down, especially with your own Volt Turn shenanigans. Knock Off is just a great move in general for Landorus-T, as the defensive Pokemon that like to switch into it hate having their item removed.

I know this rate isn't particularly in depth, but that's honestly because I can't find too many issues with it as a whole. Anyway, good luck with the team!

Thanks, Halcyon! Honestly speaking, hearing that the team seems solid enough to make it difficult to rate is a pretty decent ego boost, so thanks for that right off the bat.

Your suggestions are super neat. I've been toying with exactly your suggestion of moving SR to Heatran (though I was considering it over toxic, protect makes much more sense) and replacing SR on Lando-T with Knock Off for a good while myself and I've officially given it a go and am loving the results. This actually gives Heatran something solidly useful to do against those obvious Genesect leads other than toxicing incoming switches or burn fishing with lava plume. Protect was pretty much dead weight anyway most of the time, absolutely killing momentum and only useful for scouting choice'd move selections. Knocking off Lefties/Chesto berries/Sitrus Berries off incoming Rotom-Ws/Jellicents/Trevenants is fantastic as well.

You are 100% correct in your analysis that powerful Water type moves particularly from the likes of Keldeo give my team a lot of trouble, and Specially Defensive Rotom-W is definitely something I'll keep in mind. It'd leave my team even weaker to Azumarill though, so I'm probably going to need to see how the metagame settles and pick and choose my threat list carefully.

Thanks again for the rate!

While I'm here - currently Guts!Conkeldurr's carrying Ice punch, Knock off and Drain Punch (the standard Bulk up set) is still a huge problem. I lack safe switch-ins and don't really have a viable way of dealing with it. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[fish6067]

Firstly, I gave this team a go and it's very nice. You are probably better and more experienced than me so I'm not going to offer any suggestions, except regarding conkeldurr as I think I have some experience there.

As a user of that guts conkeldurr bulk up set, I must agree it is very good. From my experience using it, azumarill hard counters it, resisting all moves and proceeding to hit hard with play roughs. Another nice counter is tentacruel, which can also provide spinning support for your team. Either of these guys could be slotted in over rotom-w, but I'm not sure you want that. What I would recommend is something that was recommended above by a much more experienced user than myself; mega-charizard-y.

This thing hits like a truck. This is the damage calc for an air slash against conk:
252 SpA Charizard Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 408-480 (98.5 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (OHKO after rocks)

I know you already have a mega but you said in your OP that mega luke was really to counter Kanga, and with kanga due to depart from the meta in a matter of days probably, I think Charizard Y is worth a shot. In fact, I think shurtgal's suggestion of a defog latias is also a really good one. You could even add tentacruel as a spinner as well as charizard-y if you were really scared of conk.

That being said, that's a pretty extreme measure just to counter conkeldurr, so maybe it's not the best idea. Might be worth a try though. If you don't want to try that, I'd say just be VERY careful with will-o-wisp when your opponent has a conk, there is nothing that I love more than baiting a WoW from a rotom-w and switching in conkeldurr.

 

[Srn]

Hey, I got the request, so I'm gonna try and rate this team!

That being said, there's not much I can even do here, I'll be perfectly honest. This team is pretty solid. You have a classic volt-turn core to weaken the opposition so that you can clean up with lucario. Good idea that would probably be executed well.

However, I really don't see why heatran is even there. All it seems to do is kill your momentum and let opposing volt-turn steal the momentum from you, and I can tell, momentum is important for this team to function properly. I realize you've mentioned it's not dead-weight, but I think something can function much better in its place. And that is Celebi. Now before you go "omg so many weaknesses how could this thing ever work," it more or less takes on every role your heatran did. It's specially defensive, can set rocks, but it can pivot and heal up too, meaning you don't have to just kiss your momentum goodbye. This also patches up your weakness to rotom-w, conk, and azumarill a bit.

But this change leaves you much weaker to genesect. That's why you should put the 4 evs into special defense. This way, you can take a flamethrower on the switch in for less than half because he will always get the attack boost, shadow ball the switch in (or genesect) and maybe even net a ko w/shadow sneak. A pretty good answer to genesect in general imo, so I think you should be fine.

As for your landorus, I'd consider assault vest. It's a weird idea, but it will mitigate the loss of heatran a little bit and still give you defensive prowess. You will get worn down quicker, but lando-t is easy to wear down in general imo. Since celebi has rocks, you're still free to run knock-off. You can just keep the same ev spread for this guy.

For your aegislash, I'd honestly say King's shield-->iron head. Now hear me out first. King's shield, imo, doesn't do too much for you. Almost any time you're KS'ing you could probably just switch into one of your, what, 3 pivots? (lando-t, rotom-w, and celebi) Iron head grants you a much more solid option. Of course, I realize that this way, you'd be running 4 attacks, but that's how I like my aegislash. Aegislash is designed to be an offensive pivot, and KS is just giving a good opponent a chance to play around you and possibly lose even more momentum.

Now, since you have iron head on your aegislash, I think you can go bullet punch--> extremespeed. This change would also fix up your talonflame weakness I introduced with celebi, and since aegislash will be killing fairies, I think extremespeed would be a great idea. At the very least, you don't have to worry about mega-evolving if mega-kang is in the ko range. Again, same ev spread.

This team was pretty tough to rate, I'll tell you that. You've made quite an outstanding team, and hopefully I've made it a little better. Good luck!

Movesets

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 60 SDef / 252 HP / 196 Spd
Gentle Nature
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Stealth Rock

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Firstly, I gave this team a go and it's very nice. You are probably better and more experienced than me so I'm not going to offer any suggestions, except regarding conkeldurr as I think I have some experience there.

As a user of that guts conkeldurr bulk up set, I must agree it is very good. From my experience using it, azumarill hard counters it, resisting all moves and proceeding to hit hard with play roughs. Another nice counter is tentacruel, which can also provide spinning support for your team. Either of these guys could be slotted in over rotom-w, but I'm not sure you want that. What I would recommend is something that was recommended above by a much more experienced user than myself; mega-charizard-y.

This thing hits like a truck. This is the damage calc for an air slash against conk:
252 SpA Charizard Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 408-480 (98.5 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (OHKO after rocks)

I know you already have a mega but you said in your OP that mega luke was really to counter Kanga, and with kanga due to depart from the meta in a matter of days probably, I think Charizard Y is worth a shot. In fact, I think shurtgal's suggestion of a defog latias is also a really good one. You could even add tentacruel as a spinner as well as charizard-y if you were really scared of conk.

That being said, that's a pretty extreme measure just to counter conkeldurr, so maybe it's not the best idea. Might be worth a try though. If you don't want to try that, I'd say just be VERY careful with will-o-wisp when your opponent has a conk, there is nothing that I love more than baiting a WoW from a rotom-w and switching in conkeldurr.

I'm glad you liked the team! I don't know why you would think I'm better/more experienced, I suck at this game, but I'll take the compliment all the same. I'm unwilling to switch Rotom-W out for Azumarill/Tentacruel solely to counter Conkeldurr (as good as they are at the job), primarily because this is a Volt-Turn team and without Rotom-W, there is no 'Volt'. Mega-Charizard Y is definitely interesting, being resistant to Drain punch/Ice punch and being unable to have its item knocked off while being a very potent wall breaker and an answer to Rotom-W as well is pretty cool, but it basically mandates the use of a Defog/RS user and shifts the team dynamic considerably, I'll probably leave that suggestion to experiment with on a future team. Conk's definitely a terror to my team, but generally I've been able to deal with it by forcing 1 for 1 trade situations. Not ideal, but acceptable.

Thanks for the suggestions though!

Hey, I got the request, so I'm gonna try and rate this team!

That being said, there's not much I can even do here, I'll be perfectly honest. This team is pretty solid. You have a classic volt-turn core to weaken the opposition so that you can clean up with lucario. Good idea that would probably be executed well.

However, I really don't see why heatran is even there. All it seems to do is kill your momentum and let opposing volt-turn steal the momentum from you, and I can tell, momentum is important for this team to function properly. I realize you've mentioned it's not dead-weight, but I think something can function much better in its place. And that is Celebi. Now before you go "omg so many weaknesses how could this thing ever work," it more or less takes on every role your heatran did. It's specially defensive, can set rocks, but it can pivot and heal up too, meaning you don't have to just kiss your momentum goodbye. This also patches up your weakness to rotom-w, conk, and azumarill a bit.

But this change leaves you much weaker to genesect. That's why you should put the 4 evs into special defense. This way, you can take a flamethrower on the switch in for less than half because he will always get the attack boost, shadow ball the switch in (or genesect) and maybe even net a ko w/shadow sneak. A pretty good answer to genesect in general imo, so I think you should be fine.

As for your landorus, I'd consider assault vest. It's a weird idea, but it will mitigate the loss of heatran a little bit and still give you defensive prowess. You will get worn down quicker, but lando-t is easy to wear down in general imo. Since celebi has rocks, you're still free to run knock-off. You can just keep the same ev spread for this guy.

For your aegislash, I'd honestly say King's shield-->iron head. Now hear me out first. King's shield, imo, doesn't do too much for you. Almost any time you're KS'ing you could probably just switch into one of your, what, 3 pivots? (lando-t, rotom-w, and celebi) Iron head grants you a much more solid option. Of course, I realize that this way, you'd be running 4 attacks, but that's how I like my aegislash. Aegislash is designed to be an offensive pivot, and KS is just giving a good opponent a chance to play around you and possibly lose even more momentum.

Now, since you have iron head on your aegislash, I think you can go bullet punch--> extremespeed. This change would also fix up your talonflame weakness I introduced with celebi, and since aegislash will be killing fairies, I think extremespeed would be a great idea. At the very least, you don't have to worry about mega-evolving if mega-kang is in the ko range. Again, same ev spread.

This team was pretty tough to rate, I'll tell you that. You've made quite an outstanding team, and hopefully I've made it a little better. Good luck!

Movesets

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 60 SDef / 252 HP / 196 Spd
Gentle Nature
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Stealth Rock

Hey, thanks for the rate! I'm glad you think the team is so solid since I've put a lot of work into it. I'm honestly confused about how Heatran is copping so much... .... 'heat' (YEAAAAAHHH) from all you raters, its role seems obvious in my mind - A mindless Genesect switch in that also has the ability to matchup well against the likes of Talonflame (my safest switch in for Talonflame, in fact seeing as they're all starting to carry WoW nowadays), Zapdos, Clefable and other fairly uncommon but not unseen threats in the OU metagame. I mean sure, playing around Gensect without a Tran is possible, but the insurance of having something that will definitely be a safe switch in against the monster that is Genesect is definitely something I'm nervous about passing up. Celebi is cool though, I used Celebi extensively last gen and I've always been a fan. I'd honestly rather deal with being weak to Conkeldurr than being weak to Genesect though, to be honest.

What kind of hits will I be able to take with Assault Vest Lando-T? The only advantages I can think of off the top of my head would be a surer switch in on M-Lucario (being better able to handle special variants) and Aegislash (SB hurts like a bitch otherwise). I'll give it a whirl though, seems sensible enough with the SR re-adjustment that I've been running.

King's shield has a clearly defined purpose on Aegislash - renders me safe from pursuit-trapping and sucks all the momentum out of Genesect Switch-ins as well as scouting other Choice users. In these situations, switching out is a poor option for me. Rarely do I try to create 50-50 situations (you know, unless I've been playing terribly) since I believe that there's always a better alternative than a 50-50 if you're playing correctly. On the other hand, I can see little benefit in running Iron head when I'm using Aegislash as a Pivot since 99% of the time Shadow Ball is my go-to choice anyway. I'd also have to run Atk investment to make it worthwhile, and I tried Aegislash without bulk and did not like the results.

ES vs. Bullet punch is always something to consider on physical Lucario. Personally I actually think ES is probably a better choice if you're running Ice punch since Ice punch hits Togekiss just fine and ES allows you to beat Talonflame in certain situations, but for the purposes of my team, being able to deal with Clefable (who is surprisingly common and surprisingly annoying) is a coveted role.

Thanks very much for the rate. Always good to hear a fresh person's take!

 

[Alejandro36]

I am not very experienced so take that into account, but I also run Heatran and it never lets me down. That thing is pretty good, and I think is getting popular. Just so you know I have already people running HP ground on genesect just for Heatran (thankfully they are still not very popular). So Heatran is no longer quite the "mindless" switch in it was.

 

[Srn]

I am not very experienced so take that into account, but I also run Heatran and it never lets me down. That thing is pretty good, and I think is getting popular. Just so you know I have already people running HP ground on genesect just for Heatran (thankfully they are still not very popular). So Heatran is no longer quite the "mindless" switch in it was.

But why would you ever run heatran on a volt-turn team? It's an outstanding pokemon, but a total momentum killer. The key to volt-turn is momentum, and heatran is just giving it all away with his inability to pivot out and weakness to common fighting/ground coverage moves. Don't go heatran on volt-turn

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I am not very experienced so take that into account, but I also run Heatran and it never lets me down. That thing is pretty good, and I think is getting popular. Just so you know I have already people running HP ground on genesect just for Heatran (thankfully they are still not very popular). So Heatran is no longer quite the "mindless" switch in it was.

Thanks for the heads up, I've run into a couple myself, actually and it's pretty sad:

252 SpA Genesect Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 172-204 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I honestly don't think it'll catch on. The opportunity cost of having to run HP Ground is too steep for Genesect.

Srn9130 I'm well aware of how important momentum is, particularly on Volt-Turn teams, but honestly Volt-turn is a means to an end, chipping away damage and aiming to safely switch in my Wallbreakers. Against skilled players, it's just not feasible to maintain momentum indefinitely and I don't subscribe to the idea that the only mons you can have on a Volt-turn team are pivotmons, wallbreakers or cleaners. Heatran serves a different role, it has fantastic typing that allows it to status absorb and packs useful immunities, it checks, and outright walls many different dangerous threats that would otherwise give me a lot of trouble. In addition, it's difficult to switch into because it threatens burn or toxic, it phazes and it gives me an option to run Knock off on Lando-T because it can set up SR. Naturally I'd give my arm for it to learn Volt-switch as well (can you even imagine? My God.) but I honestly don't think Heatran is out of place on this team at all.

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Aight, there's not much I can say that hasn't already been covered somewhere above haha. I'm a little pressed for time atm so I'll think of more stuff later, but right now I'll just nitpick with the spreads:

If Conk is a problem, a Quiet nature and 14 Speed IVs allow Aeg to under-speed min-speed Conk to hit after Payback (0 Speed IVs let it under-speed Brave Conk, but then usually the player's gonna be running lower IVs as well).

Your Washtom spread is maximizing hazard damage atm, this spread allows it to maintain its bulk for a bit more attacking power as well:

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 60 SAtk / 200 Def / 248 HP
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 29 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Volt Switch

You're not 2HKOed by +2 Shadow Sneak by Aeg after SR, which is probably as bulky as you should go imo. The 29 speed IVs let you under-speed 30 IV'ed Washtom to gain switch advantage. You'll tie with min-speed base 85s, but what can Suicune do to you anyway?

Just another thing, your team would appreciate Spikes support as well due to the sheer number of switches Volt-Turn causes. Usually I'd recommend Froslass or something to that effect but Defog really screwed dedicated Spiker leads over :/ Since Mega Kang is gone, you could slot Forre over Luke, as the extra spikes damage punishing the opponent's switches would bridge the gap and make up for the lowered offensive power. Forretress also gets Volt Switch, which is a godsend on it, and lets you test out Char-Y at the same time. I know it's probably something you aren't gonna do, but it's worth a shot - it's just tough seeing all that extra potential for residuals 'cuz you've got a dope Volt-Turn core.

Yeah so this wasn't really a rate, when I have more time I'll think of some stuff (might overlap with things above, though). Nice team though man, VoltTurn's always cool :]