Which Uber should be the next OU

[haterguy]

After reading that Ho-Oh thread.. i got to thinking, which uber is going to be in OU after all this platinum changes?

 

[Bogmire]

I know this topic will get locked but whatever.

Deoxys-D. I'll try to make this explanation as short as possible.

50/160/160 defenses aren't as good as they may seem. They put Deoxys-D only 1 defense tier above 100/100/100 pokemon like Celebi and Jirachi. Deoxys-D's stat distribution is quite possibly the worst out of all the base 600s. +1 defense and spD tier in exchange for lower speed, and much lower attacking stats.

Its not much better than Cresselia who's hardly OU, with the only thing it having that Cress doesn't is 5 more base speed and stealth rock/spikes. Cress also gets levitate to absorb Mamoswine's CB earthquake's with (who Deoxys-D is 2HKOed by), and lastly Cresselia is 2 whole defense tiers and 3 whole special defense tiers above Deoxys-D thanks to 70 more base HP.

I'll never understand how Deoxys-D got into ubers in the first place. It should at least be tested for OU.

This really doesn't have to do with Platinum changes either. I never thought Deoxys-D could break OU in DP either.

 

[Sunday]

We already have this discussion decided in policy review, feel free to check there for our future plans.

 

[Bourbon]

Sooo, is this being locked...?


If not, here I go. The main reason Deoxys-D isn't going to be OU is because of two things: Recover and Taunt. With respectably high speed, it can outrun most pokemon that might have a chance at crippling it. It has a huge supportive movepool, and with Pressure and Recover, it can easily stall you out of PP.

I mean, Cressilia is easily crippled by Toxic or Sandstorm if it runs Moonlight, and if it doesn't it has to resort to Rest and Sleep Talk, which isn't that good of a form of recovery. If Cressilia had Taunt and Recover it would be SOOOOO much better.

EDIT: oh wow, Calm Mind Deoxys-D. And it has boltbeam, and those amazing defenses too... hmmm

 

[Kira]

Deoxys-D has something over Cresselia. Recover is far superior to moonlight. Meanwhile with Cosmic Power, Recover, Recycle, Filler he can make a nearly unbreakable stall as long as you give him some entry hazard support. Recycle can work with Lum Berry to prevent status from ruining him (if it works that way).

Of course this is theorymon, something which I can't say I am good at. Though that set I listed seems like it would make a very nice stall Pokemon. Factor in Pressure and he really will get on your nerves. Of course, with only one attacking move he may be set-up bait. Though maybe late game he would do better.

 

[Bogmire]

Sooo, is this being locked...?


If not, here I go. The main reason Deoxys-D isn't going to be OU is because of two things: Recover and Taunt. With respectably high speed, it can outrun most pokemon that might have a chance at crippling it. It has a huge supportive movepool, and with Pressure and Recover, it can easily stall you out of PP.

I mean, Cressilia is easily crippled by Toxic or Sandstorm if it runs Moonlight, and if it doesn't it has to resort to Rest and Sleep Talk, which isn't that good of a form of recovery. If Cressilia had Taunt and Recover it would be SOOOOO much better.

EDIT: oh wow, Calm Mind Deoxys-D. And it has boltbeam, and those amazing defenses too... hmmm

I supposed taunt is really good, I'm not sure if its enough to make it uber though. 90 speed still isn't that fast. Its not like you'll be running timid with 252 speed EVs all the time.

even if cress had recover I doubt it'd be uber.

cresselia also has calm mind and boltbeam (charge beam's effect sort of makes up for the lack of tbolt) Those amazing base 160 defenses of Deoxys' are backed by a horrible 50 base hp, putting it 2 defense tiers and 3 special defense tiers below Cresselia. they're not lugia or giratina level thats for sure.

you can't run CM+taunt at the same time (unless you want to be stuck with one attacking move or no recovery), so depending on the set it'll have plenty of counters.

 

[Matthew]

Manaphy I'd think

 

[Darkmalice]

Deoxys-D is an insane spiker, easily the best. Pros compared to other walls:

• It has Recover, something Cresselia lacks, making it a brilliant survivor.
• It has Pressure, making it a great staller.
• It does not have a Magnet Pull weakness and Dugtrio doesn't do enough damage to pose a threat. Due to its natural bulk, it can take Pursuits decently when it doesn't swap out (though Scizor, Tar and Weavile have threatening attacks when it stays in).
• Unlike Skarmory and Forry, the two most common OU spikers, it is an excellent wall both physically and specially. (And spinningis very hard due to the popularity of Gengar and Rotom (and Dusknoir)).
• Generally better offensive than Skarm, Cresselia and others in most situations (that is, bearing super effective hits or Gyro Ball against fast pokemon) due to Seimsic Toss/Night Shade.
• Makes a good defensive Calm Minder.
• Can set up both screens but with greater durability than Deoxys-s and Bronzong.
• It can use Agility to abuse Taunt, Calm Mind and other moves, enabling it to outspeed Deoxys-s and Timid Scarf Azelf, and everything else used in all the metagames.
• Not many weaknesses (3) (though few resistances and weaknesses are rather common).
• Great move pool.

Its introduction into OU will lead to a mass spikes and stall dominated metagame. Personally, I don't think any of the ubers should be let into OU. We can test Chomp again due to Plat changes, but he'll still remain Uber till the next generation, when I'm hoping better physical ice moves will send him back to OU. Manaphy will create far too many rain teams, and Lati@s' Draco Meteor is much more fearsome than Salamance's, backed up by better typing and movepool.

 

[Kira]

darknessmalice: Lati@s was tested in a tourney and was found to be counterable. In fact most of the Lati counters are already viable OU Pokemon. Blissey, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross to name a few.

It is viable as an OU Pokemon.

Oh and can someone clarify whether or not Soul Dew was allowed in that tournament?

 

[Bogmire]

Deoxys-D is an insane spiker, easily the best. Pros compared to other walls:

• It has Recover, something Cresselia lacks, making it a brilliant survivor.

A lot of pokemon have recover. Having recover doesn't make something uber.

• It has Pressure, making it a great staller.

With what moveset?

• It does not have a Magnet Pull weakness and Dugtrio doesn't do enough damage to pose a threat. Due to its natural bulk, it can take Pursuits decently when it doesn't swap out (though Scizor, Tar and Weavile have threatening attacks when it stays in).

What else commonly uses pursuit besides those 3? You're fucked if any of them show their faces.
​

• Unlike Skarmory and Forry, the two most common OU spikers, it is an excellent wall both physically and specially. (And spinningis very hard due to the popularity of Gengar and Rotom (and Dusknoir)).

most spikers today are suicide leads, and they're generally more effective than Deoxys-D since they're basically guaranteed to get rocks down, and are offensively threatening unlike Deoxys-D.
​

• Generally better offensive than Skarm, Cresselia and others in most situations (that is, bearing super effective hits or Gyro Ball against fast pokemon) due to Seimsic Toss/Night Shade.

Why anyone would use Seismic Toss/Night Shade on Deoxys-D is beyond me, when there are much better options than it.

• Makes a good defensive Calm Minder.

So do Suicune, Celebi, Jirachi, and Cresselia

• Can set up both screens but with greater durability than Deoxys-s and Bronzong.

Since Deoxys-D is much slower it may not even be able to get them down if it gets taunted or battered by supereffective moves. Deoxys-S doesn't have to worry about getting taunted or any of that since its faster then damn near everything.
​

• It can use Agility to abuse Taunt, Calm Mind and other moves, enabling it to outspeed Deoxys-s and Timid Scarf Azelf, and everything else used in all the metagames.

If you're planning on using all 3 of those moves on the same set then you'll only have 1 attacking move and no recovery.

• Not many weaknesses (3) (though few resistances and weaknesses are rather common).
• Great move pool.

Its introduction into OU will lead to a mass spikes and stall dominated metagame. Personally, I don't think any of the ubers should be let into OU. We can test Chomp again due to Plat changes, but he'll still remain Uber till the next generation, when I'm hoping better physical ice moves will send him back to OU. Manaphy will create far too many rain teams, and Lati@s' Draco Meteor is much more fearsome than Salamance's, backed up by better typing and movepool.

The metagame already is dominated by stealth rock/spikes with all the suicide leads running amuck. People will still choose suicide leads>deoxys-d because of the speed and better offensive threat. Personally I think Deoxys-S is a better spiker because of the speed. Yes Deoxys-D is still a good spiker, but does that make it uber?. And so what if the metagame becomes more stallish? Why is that a bad thing?

 

[gengod]

darknessmalice: Lati@s was tested in a tourney and was found to be counterable. In fact most of the Lati counters are already viable OU Pokemon. Blissey, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross to name a few.

It is viable as an OU Pokemon.

Oh and can someone clarify whether or not Soul Dew was allowed in that tournament?

Lati@s were used in two tournies thus far and Soul Dew was banned in both tournies.

As far as which Uber should be the next OU...

We already have this discussion decided in policy review, feel free to check there for our future plans.