NOC Why is there a gun in my popcorn? GAME OVER SCUM WIN

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I agree with quite a few things stated by yeti but the "In all 3 circumstances their utility to town is low." justification for why dle/ag/josh should be shot rings an alarm to me
 

Wayan Vistar

formerly Flyhn
Okay, here we go. you wanted reads, you got reads.

Hitmonleet - Not really sure what to make of them honestly. I haven't played NOC with him before, but i feel he has a bit of a tunnel vision problem with how much focus is being put on FH Null

Thetwinmasters - Not posting as much as i'd expect from him, and what he is posting are mostly one-liners. Going off memory, this isn't how town!twin acts, though i may need to validate this better before hard scumreading him. Leaning Scum

Jalmont - Legit forgot he was playing in my last post. Jalmont is always the quiet type regardless of alignment, but he usually at least has a couple more helpful posts than i see from him currently. Slight scum lean

UncleSam - Supposedly busy, and i'm tempted to believe it, but his contributions have been.. well, angrier than typical US. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing really, but it just seems really weird. I'm watching closely, but for now Null. Damn Sam's ability to make me paranoid of my read on him every game

MoodyCloud - One of the idlers, not really doing too much of substance honestly. Leaning Scum

winter-delta - One content post. Sound familiar? Although i don't have past experience to back it up like i did with shubaka, i still feel this is scum rather than town Scum

Blazade - Seems to be contributing a little, but not as much as i'd expect from him. I want to see more from him, but he seems solid so far. Slight town lean

Asek - I'd say his contributions are coming from a genuine place. Call it gut if you will, he just.. feels townie to me, and is making decent enough points. Town

Fort Colorcastle - Scumread by quite a few people in this game, but honestly i don't see it. He's disappeared after Haruno got the gun though, so i'll wait. He's contributing something when he posts at least, and i like that. Leaning town

Josh - One of the most active posters so far. Activity in and of itself isn't inherently towny, but i don't really get scum-vibes from Josh. Leaning town

Haruno - Gun'd, literal confirmed town

DeathByWobbuffet - Another idler, although expected. The few contributions made look towny though. Slight town lean

Yeti - Acted rather weird early on tbh, but her frustration feels oddly genuine to me. Call me insane, but based solely on that i'm Leaning town

Flyhn - Why hello ^w^ fmpov confirmed town

Former Hope - Put them in the same boat i'd put leet tbh in the sense that idk how to read them. Being a bit less tunnel-vision-y, and has actually called leet out for the tunnel vision on him and haruno. For that alone i'd put them higher, Slight town lean

Aura Guardian - Good contributions so far, really looks like he's putting in the effort to find scum this game. Town

Da Letter El
- iDLE is a scumtell, pointed out numerous times by numerous people. Scum

Empoof - The other most active poster so far. Same boat as Josh for me, although i acknowledge Empoof has been one-lining more, but they seem to be coming from a genuine place. Leaning town


If i had gun, i'd probably shoot iDLE right about now

Will do isos if enough people want me to go more in depth about a given read, already planning to analyse winter's one post, but it didn't really scream town to me
 

Josh

=P
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
again, if possible please sort from towniest to scummiest. not as bad to read as fh's (he lazy formatted like I would when yours is all fancy shmancy). I'll reply shortly.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
So uh Haruno had nothing of note to go off of in terms of being proven town so that doesn't really change anything for me

shubaka isn't much better in terms of content that gives us anything useful (IMAGINE IF WE HAD FORCED HIM TO MAKE A READS POST)

shubaka17 said:
i wanna iso yeti bc of how much you're rubbing me the wrong way, but i cbq, so instead i'll just say yeti is rubbing me the wrong way and is giving some very weak speaks. the other weak speakers i kinda expect it from re: jalmont, moody,,, but not yeti?
also empoof is icky but not to the extent yeti is. haruno is playing a haruno game, and that's all the relevant info. texas should shoot haruno and then let haruno kill all the mafia, y/y
I don't really get why everyone's overreading this post tbh - I've seen a few 'lock town Yeti' etc. posts but this is the sort of passive push a mafia makes onto either a teammate or a villager they perceive as being likely to outargue / post them. I don't think it really means much either way wrt Yeti.

I find the FH/Yeti connection interesting however, I don't recall them ever going after each other or doing much wrt each other so that's something I'd like answers on Former Hope Yeti former hope just declared Yeti lock town what are your thoughts on this as for former hope doesn't it bother you to be drawing that inference based off of one mostly throwaway passive post from like fifteen pages ago?

DLE is iDLE which is really scummy. Da Letter El post something or I'll start assuming you're mafia

Josh connection to shubaka is interesting to say the least, I had a much lower appreciation for Joshs' play so far than most previously so obviously this one intrigues me. The passive buddying is something that I could definitely see a more active mafia doing for an idler teammate.

DeathbyWobbuffett is an idler in the same vein as shubaka and winter-delta isn't far behind. Both of you need to step up or as far as I'm concerned you should be thrown in the potential shot pool DeathByWobbuffet winter-delta

Jalmont also is acting really afk and I'll just say refer to my comment about DLE above

I like Flyhn a lot more now, I wanna see more from him because I think he is among the cleanest out there right now (I still think Empoof is in this category btw)
 
Yeti are you actually gonna post something of use or are you planning on continuing to send useless filler?

Also idk what all this is about DLE always being scum when they're lurking. I seem to recall that they idled all the way through this game, yet they ended up flipping town.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
empoof reads:

p4:
Yeti how's it feel to roll mafia in a game like this?
prob not rly a read just a reaction test
wow josh is scum too
two down

baseless
Moodycloud top town
after texas.

baseless
Opinions on Blazade going for a derp clear?
not rly a read but puts it out there blazade could be derptown
bffs with moody when he FoSes josh
baseless wrt josh being scum but reasonable to TR moody for the similarity
doesn't want haruno shot
idk if empoof doesnt think haruno is town at this point or he just agrees with me that shooting someone you feel is likely town is a suboptimal play, again, his posts are not elaborated enough

p5:
flyhn is town
baseless
towns:
Moody
Flyhn
hitmonleet
Uncle Sam...?

scum:
Josh
Yeti

baseless but mostly consistent with his p4 reads except the addition of hitmonleet and sam. what bothers about this reads list as i have said is that it includes absolutely no indication of why he reads people these ways or how strong the reads are which, if he's scum, lets him alter the intent of his posts/reads later on when it becomes necessary
Oh I want winter-delta to be town too but bleh
baseless and useless, unless u are ditto what u want in a noc is irrelevant
leet how am I not in your town circle
im not sure if this is empoof feeling like he should be townread for his previous posts (lol) or he should be in leet's town reads because empoof put leet in his which seems like just a play to get people on his side which screams mafia more than town

p6/7:
shhhh let him [josh] think he's wildly scumread for a bit longer please
this post makes me question the seriousness of empoof's prior scumread on josh as perhaps just a pressure play... which again means he can claim his reads were for any purpose or flop any which way of seriousness which i don't tend to like
I kind of thought that the people defending him would more likely be scum. Part of why I scum read josh.
alright so now empoof does seem to seriously scumread josh and provides a reason for it, that josh could be setting up a texas misfire onto haruno
So Empoof, enlighten me. which of these posts makes moody town?
the popcorn one
baseless
Air of not giving a hoot.
Soul read.
oh hey now we get a reason for it as flaky as it is. again i think soul reads are on par with astrology and crystal energy in terms of usefulness
Asek trying to pocket me on the yeti read is a good look :thumbsup:
im not sure how he feels about asek's alignment but he's at least cognizant of this

p8:
empoof claims if i am mafia he should be a lock town and that he thinks i am likely mafia but not a good shot yet
i find this kind of thing incredibly self-serving to be the one to point out your own quote lock townness unquote based on a read you made and did not provide any evidence for. "i am a lock town based on this situation i manufactured" yeah thats not how it works buddy. i definitely think empoof would be the kinda guy to try an unorthodox play like early bussing a good teammate especially if that ultimately goes nowhere BECAUSE he has given no reasons for anyone else to believe it. note that while i am not mafia i think empoof's defense he wouldn't be bussing me early as mafia doesn't hold water, but i havent played with him in a while i guess. my point here is i feel like empoof has created a situation wherein he can try and claim my alignment very strongly dictates his alignment, but i feel that is complete bogus to claim on d1 (especially i wonder the reverse, if i get shot and then have the gun what is he gonna say my being town makes him?? completely untouched point by empoof). just doesnt seem towny, town should never find anyone to be a lock town on d1 and always be open to reconsidering their reads or they will tunnel and lose.

p9:
empoof can get behind FoS ag and us
baseless on empoof's part, he quotes twin's reasoning for it but adds nothing of his own

p10+:
I think I'm cool with a Former Hope shot
baseless. why tho? looking at this fh hasn't appeared in any of empoof's previous posts. so what changed to give empoof a scumread on fh?
Asek and Uncle Sam never wolfbros
baseless. i mean most people can intuit why based on their argument but we still lack any insight of empoof's personally
I feel like twin is town.
I don't know how I feel about Fort, so he's probably scum.
All of these shots i'm okay with

again baseless for twin and why he's ok with the shots but he does explain not knowing how to feel about fort = scum
Former Hope is doing nothing and I consider them a ~decent player so if they're town they could make decent shots. He's been mentioned in a lot of people's lists
alright now we get a reason for the fh shot, but it doesn't even sound like empoof wants fh shot for a strong scumread, which you would NEVER KNOW from his post above
I think Yeti Uncle Sam DLE Josh Haruno are all bad first shots and are better shots the further we get into the game.theres not as much explanation here as there should be but its not like, a new take, and i agree with it barring dle who is idling and prob a good shot right about now.
Sam and Asek never shove on eachother or interact the way they did in the back and forth before my post as mafia partners. There's no reason for either of them to do so at that point in the game. They're both heavily discrediting each other.
I kind of just do one liners for the most part.
ayy explanation. again tho this feels like empoof setting up the case that his teammates would never fight each other on d1. so idk. i find one liners with no reasons to be extremely scummy so i guess that is the problem here as we can see.

im bored at this point so to sum up i find empoof's reads baseless for the most part and needlessly requiring prodding to get an explanation for them. they're bad because they're unsubstantiated so without knowing WHY he feels x is scummy and y is towny there is nothing of value there to agree with or disagree with. a shame because when he does elaborate it makes sense. just that he doesn't so often and posts hot takes meaninglessly for almost all of his posts strikes me as scummy. he only explains when someone directly asks him and to NOT provide a reason would be the scummiest course of action.

something i noticed when re-reading empoof posts was this winter-delta quote:
I don't think I can say anything about this that someone else hasn't already said, so yeah.
suuuuuuuuper scummy. this is like the most typical idling scum line ever, p sure hannahhh or w/e used it word for word in that one noc she subbed out of as idling scum. "i have nothing new to add and won't restate my feelings if someone else has said it so you KNOW what i am feeling, so i will just say this"
shoot dle + w-d as priority imo
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Yeti are you actually gonna post something of use or are you planning on continuing to send useless filler?

Also idk what all this is about DLE always being scum when they're lurking. I seem to recall that they idled all the way through this game, yet they ended up flipping town.
is this post serious

like you have 5 posts or less in this thread with nothing of value whatsoever

and you call out one of the best circus wallposters

lmaoooooooooooooooooo

those are some big balls to make such a direly inaccurate post. almost everyone in the game has less content and stated opinions than me yet you ignore the likes of twin, jalmont, dle, hmm who else, asek who got into a spat with sam early and hasn't done much since.

should DBW flip scum i think people who genuinely haven't posted anything of use IE DLE jalmont the prime offenders should be extremely high candidates as scumpartners. this feels like the most obvious redirect.

in the very same post he puts up a defense of dle idling; people who have played more games with dle know he does this as scum with a great deal of frequency more than as town.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I find the FH/Yeti connection interesting however, I don't recall them ever going after each other or doing much wrt each other so that's something I'd like answers on Former Hope Yeti former hope just declared Yeti lock town what are your thoughts on this as for former hope doesn't it bother you to be drawing that inference based off of one mostly throwaway passive post from like fifteen pages ago?
as i said i know fh posts but i never really remember what's in those posts. which makes me suspicious that he's trying to say stuff without SAYING stuff. i'll reread.

as stated before i think calling other people/yourself lock town based off something in the thread is a foolish endeavor for a villager to undertake and will lead to misreads. obviously i like, agree with him that i am town, but i guess i don't feel the shubaka post should be indicative enough for other people to call me a lock town. could easily be fh is mafia who decided to distance himself from mafia!baka's accusation onto me by taking the other angle, and try and gain my favor. could also be a villager who feels strongly about his read.

upon rereading i guess fh has a lot more stated opinions in his posts than i thought. however a LOT of his reads as seen in his reads post #513 are oriented/dictated around the shubaka flip and relations to shubaka. i guess at least he's using facts here but i think he may be weighing too heavily on shubaka... possibly because they were teammates and he's more drawn to that than any other reasons?

i dont disagree with some of his reads like forgetting twin and jalmont are in the game which is extremely unexpected for the former and more disappointing for the latter.

oh, I also just realized this game is 13:7 and not 17:3 which makes a ton more sense on people's actions.

he also has this quote which could easily be one of those cheeky teehee i don't know how many teammates i have mafia ploys. or herptown.

of note fh wants josh shot feeling he's a detriment to the town no matter what alliance he is; if fh is mafia i'd think josh is almost certainly town due to how strongly fh feels about me and flyhn being town due to shubaka interactions; i don't think he'd be setting up this kind of dichotomy for his own teammates, i think it'd just inform his attempts at looking village in his reads. IE he knows flyhn and i are not mafia, shubaka was, so his reads are colored by information like this.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
priority shots:

idling cucks:
dle - idling with intent to kill
winter-delta - low contributions + typical idlescum post
DBW - likely dle buddy, minimal contributions
moodycloud - is he subbed or.......

next wave of shots:

idling cucks:
twin - inexplicably silent when he's normally a lot more of a bully/presence
jalmont - definitely more active as a town player in my recent experience
^ both of the above are good candidates for DBW scumbuddies
fort colorcastle - this dude falls into the same boat as w-d/dbw/moody but i have slightly less of a campaign beyond idling and i think he has more posts than moodycloud? if he doesn't fulfill his above promise to do something after reading the thread he moves to priority

not bad shots:
former hope - i can definitely see a case for him being a shubaka scumbuddy attempting to pocket me/flyhn but i think there are better options before him
hitmonleet - i haven't seen anything that screams town from him
blazade - also a lot more quiet than i feel like he normally is when he's town and trying to hide under the guise of being scum with no established scum meta, again i think there are better options before him
asek - i feel like he hasnt been particularly helpful so far but i dont feel overly strongly here

these are the ppl i would focus on to grill/pressure/shoot should they fail to speak up.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I would look at people who avoided taking position on shubaka and did with other rng Texas targets more than I'd look for someone saying "don't shoot shubaka"

From my initial assumption being that scum wants the active players to get the gun as early as possible I'd recommend shooting among the idlers/less involved players first

In that regard shooting me is valid
so this is the only mc post from current back to p17

i dont disagree with his suggestion and i think it could be an interesting avenue to explore, to see who was overly defensive or suggestive of someone else texas considered.

the ppl who are like "shoot me thats fine" always get me side eying i feel strongly if you're town you don't really want to get another town killed just so you can be cleaned, it's just inefficient. he could also be looking to get ppl distracted from a teammate who is tied to shubaka IE fh.

if only the guy posted more
 

Asek

Banned deucer.
Haruno before i type anything r u shooting me or twin today?

because i have a hot take: if twin is mafia, sam is nearly lock town for me

if twin is town my thoughts on sam dont really change
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
o frk he had 1 on this page too wherein i think he misunderstands what i meant, their utility being low isn't a justification for shooting them it's a statement as a result of the above applicable points to each of the 3.

i remembered what other category i was gonna put under the second wave of shots besides idling cucks

suspicious narrative:
ag - takes "lean town" way too strongly and builds this weird campaign
dbw would appear here but he's already under priority

then josh i think is a pretty decent shot, just not great.

subpar shots at this time:
unclesam
empoof
flyhn
 
So uh.... thankfully Haruno has either been gone or realized that making his shot in 10 minutes doesn't help town at all.

ok so floaty thoughts before I do organized things:

We should follow the rules mkay.
People seem to think I was pro-haruno before he got the gun? imo it was like of "I think he's a competent player" and not "I think he's town." As I pointed out, he doesn't give a damn about d1 and his unreadability reflects that.
Has anyone been staying hardcore afk/nonexistent?
There seems to be some clear divisions setting themselves up.
If empoof is scum, then he straight-up deserves this win. He'd also be the greatest threat if he is, since damn he is such a big townread lol.

p18:
starts with twilight posting, then haruno gets towncleared + the gun and texas goes home

Flynn complaints that "the more people get shot, the more I have to analyze and also spend time on" and then goes like "keep going".
I kinda disagree with that, because just shots without talking between them doesn't help at all.

AG suggests shooting Yeti or Sam because they're likely to be of the same faction
I'd be down for a Sam shot (I think his reads have been iffy, even if the idea of posting reads lists is great), but I'd definitely let the cycle run a large portion regardless of his alignment, because that in-between discussion feels like it'd be juicy. I'm not yet sold on scum!Yeti.
btw is that how alignment!user works? idgi I'll just use english in the rest of this post

Empoof likes Flynn, then Leet josh and asek in his townblock.
Emproof talks like he's in a chatroom lol, but w.e about that I used to and/or still do the same

ok so I gotta go home, will do the rest of the pages + a readslist later
 
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