Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Halcyon.]

Mega Gyarados is such more than you're making it out to be. It technically has three types, with two varying combos, if that makes sense. You can stay Gyarados as long as you want, so you're Water / Flying until you decide to become a Dark-type, that sounds weird, doesn't it? Basically, Gyarados can come in on say Conkeldurr, and Conkeldurr can try and use Drain Punch expecting the Dark-type change, but you stay Flying, making it a free set up, then you can safely boost / attack until the Pokemon is gone. Finally, you can mega evolve and you've now got a huge threat. Unaware cannot possible beat it thanks to Mold Breaker, and honestly, it doesn't need Crunch. I certainly wouldn't give up that sexy combo of Waterfall / Ice Fang / Earthquake, not for Crunch at least. Priority move? Why the hell does it need one anyways? There are 32 Pokemon (Gyarados included) in A--, A-, A+-, and S-rank that lack priority of use, and see where they are? I hardly count Priority as an argument unless saying a Pokemon is weak to priority. Here's all the priority in A-S rank:
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 48-57 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 84-100 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-66 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 76-90 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 54.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 91-108 (27.4 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-66 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 75-89 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- 31% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 219-258 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 136-161 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 61-72 (18.3 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 33-40 (9.9 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO
Here's all that priority, and only one priority stands out: Talonflame, which has 0 business staying in on M-Gyara. I fail to see how Mega Gyarados is not S-Rank.

Pls explain to me why Azumarill is Aqua Jetting the Gyarados instead of just OHKOing with Play Rough and Scizor isn't going for Superpower. Gyarados isn't S rank because it has a tough time in the current meta with the rising popularity of Ferrothorn, the omnipresence of Azumarill and Keldeo, and even Sash Breloom is having an effect on it. Not to mention the fact that Gyarados is NEVER at full health when it sets up. It is a good offensive check to Keldeo and Lando when it hasn't MEvolved and usually takes damage from one of them during the course of a battle. Not to mention its weakness to SR. I mean, it's not that Gyarados isn't good, but it's nowhere near the best Mega, and I don't think it deserves a spot in S with the most meta-defining Pokemon in the game.

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

We all know that both Charizards are uncounterable before they mega evolve but what makes Zard Y A+ rank and what makes Zard X S rank is the price you pay for guessing wrong.

If you guess wrong with Charizard Y you will probably lose one pokemon.

If you guess wrong with Charizard X you have to worry about your whole team getting swept.

Losing a pokemon to Charizard Y always sucks but it isn't that hard to revenge kill or force out. The metagame has adapted so that most teams naturally have one or more Zard Y checks/counters. Common things like Garchomp, Lati@s, Terrakion, Dragonite, Scarf Excadrill/Landorus-T, Talonflame, Thundurus, Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Mega Pinsir if it's already mega evolved, can all come in on a healthy Charizard-Y after its killed something and threaten it with an OHKO or in Latias and Dragonite's case tank a hit and 2HKO. If we put prior damage/SR damage into the equation its list of checks gets bigger. Specs Keldeo only needs 12% prior damage to OHKO in the Sun with Hydro Pump, Bisharp only needs 25% to OHKO with Sucker Punch, Greninja can kill it with Ice Beam after SR damage, and so on.

Compare that to Charizard X, who, assuming that you guessed wrong and let it set up a DDance for free, the only counters that can come in safely on both Adamant and Jolly variants are Azumarill and physically defensive Hippowdon. Scarf Garchomp + Terrakion and Deo-S are the only checks guaranteed to outspeed at +1 but are fucked if it gets to +2. If you don't have any of those then your best bet is to spam priority moves/Prankster T-Wave at it or try to whittle it down with chip damage + Flare Blitz recoil. Zard X simply has way fewer checks and counters to deal with than Zard Y and the price the opponent pays for losing the Charizard guessing game is much more devastating with Zard X than it is with Zard Y.

I also don't agree that Zard Y screws with its counters easily. Sure, it can kill Chansey with Flare Blitz. But to do that it needs to dump a whopping 200 EVs in Attack just to get a guaranteed 2HKO on 0/252+ Chansey and loses more than 70% of its health in the process. CBB's Specially Defensive Dragonite can 2HKO Zard Y before it can do the same with Dragon Pulse. Goodra may be shitty but it's not scared of anything Charizard Y can throw at it. Specially defensive Talonflame and Mega Ampharos just do not give a fuck. Now compare that to Charizard X, whose main checks and counters (Azumarill, Hippowdon, Garchomp, Terrakion, Excadrill, Rhyperior, Quagsire, Landorus-T, Gyarados) are all fucked if it turns out to be the BulkyZard set and get crippled by Will-O-Wisp on the switch-in.

Aegislash is the most unpredictable, strategic, mind-game filled, and such and it's S rank. Why? Because if you play him perfectly, you can sweep a whole team 6-0. Even if you mess up a play, most of them, his Shield form can tank. That's the mistake in your statement about guessing wrong. And ALL pokemon have counters. Common or not. The very fact they need to revenge kill, you can use against them. They have to play safe so you can easily switch in your counter. And why are people still denying Charizard Y's S rank? Sometimes using a pokemon is better than analyzing. Use it and you will see it deserves S rank. And I think you mixed up the whole underlined guess wrong thing.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day :)

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

Mega Gyarados is such more than you're making it out to be. It technically has three types, with two varying combos, if that makes sense. You can stay Gyarados as long as you want, so you're Water / Flying until you decide to become a Dark-type, that sounds weird, doesn't it? Basically, Gyarados can come in on say Conkeldurr, and Conkeldurr can try and use Drain Punch expecting the Dark-type change, but you stay Flying, making it a free set up, then you can safely boost / attack until the Pokemon is gone. Finally, you can mega evolve and you've now got a huge threat. Unaware cannot possible beat it thanks to Mold Breaker, and honestly, it doesn't need Crunch. I certainly wouldn't give up that sexy combo of Waterfall / Ice Fang / Earthquake, not for Crunch at least. Priority move? Why the hell does it need one anyways? There are 32 Pokemon (Gyarados included) in A--, A-, A+-, and S-rank that lack priority of use, and see where they are? I hardly count Priority as an argument unless saying a Pokemon is weak to priority. Here's all the priority in A-S rank:
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 48-57 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 84-100 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-66 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 76-90 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 54.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 91-108 (27.4 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 55-66 (16.5 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 75-89 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- 31% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 219-258 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 136-161 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 61-72 (18.3 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 33-40 (9.9 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO
Here's all that priority, and only one priority stands out: Talonflame, which has 0 business staying in on M-Gyara. I fail to see how Mega Gyarados is not S-Rank.

Cuz Mega Charizard X. And it's changing formes actually make more predictable. I agree too but you know.

 

[Rosen]

Aegislash is the most unpredictable, strategic, mind-game filled, and such and it's S rank. Why? Because if you play him perfectly, you can sweep a whole team 6-0. Even if you mess up a play, most of them, his Shield form can tank. That's the mistake in your statement about guessing wrong. And ALL pokemon have counters. Common or not. The very fact they need to revenge kill, you can use against them. They have to play safe so you can easily switch in your counter. And why are people still denying Charizard Y's S rank? Sometimes using a pokemon is better than analyzing. Use it and you will see it deserves S rank. And I think you mixed up the whole underlined guess wrong thing.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day :)

You're clearly pretty new around here. Everyone around here has likely used Charizard Y, and fought it even more. Just saying "USE IT" is a pretty terrible argument against people that have used it, analyzed it, and fought against it time after time again.

 

[skies]

Pls explain to me why Azumarill is Aqua Jetting the Gyarados instead of just OHKOing with Play Rough and Scizor isn't going for Superpower. Gyarados isn't S rank because it has a tough time in the current meta with the rising popularity of Ferrothorn, the omnipresence of Azumarill and Keldeo, and even Sash Breloom is having an effect on it. Not to mention the fact that Gyarados is NEVER at full health when it sets up. It is a good offensive check to Keldeo and Lando when it hasn't MEvolved and usually takes damage from one of them during the course of a battle. Not to mention its weakness to SR. I mean, it's not that Gyarados isn't good, but it's nowhere near the best Mega, and I don't think it deserves a spot in S with the most meta-defining Pokemon in the game.

Nonononono, I'm not that stupid, I understand that, what I was pointing out is that priority is not a problem for Mega Gyarados, ignore those calcs. Earthquake OHKOes Keldeo at +1 after a round of Life Orb + SR, while Azumarill is in the same point but with a bit of prior damage. Here is what I think about why Mega Gyarados should be S-Rank: Bulk, DD, Mold Breaker, Vary type. It can clearly sweep significant portions of the metagame with little support. What support does Mega Gyarados need to be effective?

 

[blaargathon]

At first I was flamed at for saying this, and at the time I understood why. I made the claim that Chesnaught belonged in C Rank because its typing was god awful. People were keen on letting me know that I was wrong, and to be fair, I was a bit harsh. Chesnaught isn't nearly as bad as I once thought, but now after studying a bit more and using him in OU, I can safely say that I still don't agree with Chesnaught in B rank. So, I'm still probably going to get told off, but this time I've decided to explain myself more thoroughly.

The main argument used to defend him is the fact that he resists EdgeQuake, but this isn't a valid argument in my opinion, as both types are basically limited to physical attacks, which won't be used against Chesnaught unless the opponent is inexperienced or it hits him on the switch in. I know of another Pokemon that resists EdgeQuake, but because of its typing was limited to NU last gen: Torterra. Now in no way am I saying that Chesnaught is as bad is Torterra, far from it. But it's easy to see why I made the comparison.

It's obvious that the main thing that makes Chesnaught viable is his excellent hidden ability: Bulletproof (Funny how many 6th gen Pokes are only used for their HA). With Bulletproof, his excellent base defense stat of 122, and his signature move Spiky Shield all come together to give him a niche in OU. I have no complaints with these things but I don't think they make him quite as useful as his fans make him out to be. I still stand by my statement that Grass / Fighting sucks defensively. Ice, Fire, Flying, Fairy, are very common offensive moves, three of which are primarily special attacking types. Chesnaught cannot take special attacks well at all, and you could argue that he doesn't need to as he is a physical attacker, but just look at Ferrothorn and Skarmory (yes, I KNOW they are higher ranked I'm just explaining something). Both due to fantastic typing can sponge many special attacks well even with no investment. If that isn't a fair comparison, then how about Suicune? Suicune lacks reliable recovery, but gets access to Calm Mind, which boosts its uninvested Sp.Def stat to make him amazingly bulky, as well has giving him the ability to hit back very hard with Scald or Ice Beam. Chesnaught's base 100 Attack is nothing to laugh at, but it is almost never fully invested in due to the fact that he relies on his defensive bulk. Not only this, but he also has a very predictable set. The set I personally run is in my opinion, his best set: Leech Seed / Spiky Shield / Synthesis / Hammer Arm, and this is the set I almost always see. Alternatively, you could run Earthquake in place of Hammer Arm (you're either checked by Ghost or Flying, so pick your poison). You never see offensive sets for Chesnaught, and for good reason: they're very bad. Bulk Up can make Chesnaught's Attack very high, but it does nothing for his poor Special Defense, and Talonflame is still going to be a problem. Belly Drum is laughable on a Pokemon this slow. Plus, special attackers such as Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Greninja, Volcarona, Alakazam, Sylveon, Latios, and Thundurus are huge threats for the Spiny Armor Pokemon.

Disagree with me or not:

B ===> B- Rank.

(PS: This is my last discussion on the matter, as I already mentioned this before and I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way.)

 

[dice]

chesnaught main niche is its utility as a bisharp counter and a solid secondary aegislash check--it loses to subtoxic and flash cannon, so it needed to be paired with a spdef tran or something to fully check it. besides that, aegi is a very excellent check to excadrill, landorus-t, and mega tyranitar. ya chesnaught is zard-y / lati@s bait, but lati@s is worn down by leech seed, esp if they lack roost. even skarm cannot repeatedly switch in on aegi as if they roost when you hammer arm, that isn't fun. so ya chesnaught has a few niches ove ferrothorn for sure. i'd argue that sub, toxic, or spikes are better that synthesis on chesnaught because synthesis just isn't that great on a poke that can afford to run leech + protect and switches into tyranitar repeatedly..

i'd say it's still b rank but ya good post blaargathon

 

[Punchshroom]

chesnaught main niche is its utility as a bisharp counter and a solid secondary aegislash check--it loses to subtoxic and flash cannon, so it needed to be paired with a spdef tran or something to fully check it. besides that, aegi is a very excellent check to excadrill, landorus-t, and mega tyranitar. ya chesnaught is zard-y / lati@s bait, but lati@s is worn down by leech seed, esp if they lack roost. even skarm cannot repeatedly switch in on aegi as if they roost when you hammer arm, that isn't fun. so ya chesnaught has a few niches ove ferrothorn for sure. i'd argue that sub, toxic, or spikes are better that synthesis on chesnaught because synthesis just isn't that great on a poke that can afford to run leech + protect and switches into tyranitar repeatedly.

Not once, but twice you made this mistake, good job Dice.

Regardless, Chesnaught has very good typing and a useful ability, and it can set up Spikes on a huge variety of Pokemon. Excadrill will not be spinning on Chesnaught any time soon, and most Defog users will have trouble with Pokemon such as Bisharp, Thundurus, and Tyranitar, all of which have great synergy with Chesnaught (even though they all share one weakness with him). Chesnaught has pretty good survivability in general, and with Spikes, Leech Seed, and Spiky Shield, it can do a lot of passive damage to its opponent in the process. The weaknesses hold it back though, but it is still very B Rank worthy.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

The main argument used to defend him is the fact that he resists EdgeQuake, but this isn't a valid argument in my opinion, as both types are basically limited to physical attacks, which won't be used against Chesnaught unless the opponent is inexperienced or it hits him on the switch in.

The thing is, the pokemon Chesnaught is able to counter, e.g. many Aegislash sets, Mega and non-Mega TTar and Gyardos, Bisharp, some Garhcomp/DNite sets, and Excadrill, don't have the option to hit Chesnaught for anything but physical damage. Of course some exceptions exist, like Flash Cannon Aegislash and Fire Blast Chomp and TTar, but for the most part these pokemon, all A or S ranked, lose to Chesnaught, which is why it's a good tank; it beats top threats.

Now in no way am I saying that Chesnaught is as bad is Torterra, far from it. But it's easy to see why I made the comparison.

It really isn't. Torterra is garbage, Chesnaught is better because it's bulkier, Spiky Shield is a super trolly move, it resists Dark so it can take on Bisharp, it resists water so it can take on Mega Gyardos, has Bulletproof for miscellaneous immunities, and it doesn't get absolutely raped by Ice Fang/Punch. These are all things Torterra lacks which is why it's trash, whereas Chesnaught has a lot more going for it.

The set I personally run is in my opinion, his best set: Leech Seed / Spiky Shield / Synthesis / Hammer Arm, and this is the set I almost always see. Alternatively, you could run Earthquake in place of Hammer Arm (you're either checked by Ghost or Flying, so pick your poison).

Leech Seed+Spiky Shield racks up passive damage pretty fast, it doesn't need coverage: yeah you can't hit Aegislash, but unless it has Flash Cannon, HP Ice or Toxic it can't actually do anything to you, so it loses because of Leech Seed.

At any rate, any flaws Chesnaught has are what's keeping it out of higher rankings; I don't see a reason to drop it, B is pretty modest ranking and I think it properly conveys what it can perform and how well it does so.

 

[blaargathon]

Leech Seed + Spiky Shield isn't as powerful as you say. If anything, it's predictable and allows your opponent to switch into something that threatens Chesnaught out. Almost every time I use Leech Seed my opponent predicts the Spiky Shield and switches into something I cannot stay in with. I also stated exactly that Chesnaught wasn't as bad as Torterra ('far from it'), so going into detail wasn't necessary (I'm not the first person to "compare" the two). Neither was stating that his flaws are what keeps him out of higher ranks: This goes without saying to be honest.

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Leech Seed + Spiky Shield isn't as powerful as you say. If anything, it's predictable and allows your opponent to switch into something that threatens Chesnaught out. Almost every time I use Leech Seed my opponent predicts the Spiky Shield and switches into something I cannot stay in with. I also stated exactly that Chesnaught wasn't as bad as Torterra ('far from it'), so going into detail wasn't necessary (I'm not the first person to "compare" the two). Neither was stating that his flaws are what keeps him out of higher ranks: This goes without saying to be honest.

If your opponent keeps switching out after a leech seed either use seed again or predict what they're switching into and hammer it. That's not a flaw in Chesnaught it's a flaw in gameplay.

 

[Durant]

Will the OP be updated soon because there have been quite a few changes in the victory road forum.

 

[Poek]

Can someone tell me why Infernape is considered OU when there are BL's in higher ranks than him?

 

[Durant]

Can someone tell me why Infernape is considered OU when there are BL's in higher ranks than him?

Because usage does not mean how good they are. Infernape has enough usage to be OU while other pokemon like Raikou and Kabutops don't but they still are a higher rank here because they are better in what they do than Infernape.

 

[QuickBH]

Can someone tell me why Infernape is considered OU when there are BL's in higher ranks than him?

The reverse reason as to why Hippowdon is UU yet is ranked A, usage=/=effectiveness.

 

[Rechi]

The reverse reason as to why Hippowdon is UU yet is ranked A, usage=/=effectiveness.

Hippowdon's been OU ever since we switched to 1760 stats.

 

[QuickBH]

Hippowdon's been OU ever since we switched to 1760 stats.

He's still UU, but mb, yeah he's going to be OU by June when they edit the tiers.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

He's still UU, but mb, yeah he's going to be OU by June when they edit the tiers.

It seems your post jynxed him. He's back to UU.

 

[Gary]

Reminding alexwolf that he's behind on updating rankings.

Here's the newest update. It was a pretty big change so I just wanted to get it out there immediately so you guys know what's going on. Some of these changes are pretty controversial, so before you come to me and complain about these changes, make sure to READ why I put them where they're at. Also, I took many posts into consideration from here as well as the VR, so please don't act like VR is completely dictating these rankings. I read ALL the posts, so no one is left out.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

B ---------> Up to B+ Rank: It's amazing on stall, but outside of that it's complete garbage. Just because it has a solid niche on stall, doesn't mean it should go into a rank where Pokemon such as Mamoswine, Latias, and Mandibuzz aren't completely restricted to one kind of team. It's not going any higher.

Stays in A-: Chansey is practically the only reason stall is viable this generation, but again, much like Quagsire, it's very one dimensional and has very little use outside of the defensive playstyle. Look at Clefable for example, who is incredibly versatile and viable on balance, stall, and even bulky offense. I just can't really see how Chansey would fit into that rank as well as the others. Again, I didn't feel like there was solid enough arguments to bump it up.

I agree on Quag, but I disagree that Chansey can only be used on stall. I have seen many balanced teams above 1600 running her and doing well. She is still very used on balanced teams for being able to heal the attackers, remove burns and being an easy switch into many things that threaten balanced teams. She is not viable in Hyper Offense though, but again, HO is just one style.

 

[alexwolf]

Sorry guys, my PC broke last week, so i have some difficulties updating the thread, but i will try to get it done by the end of the week.

 

[Rosen]

I read through all the victory road updates, and I pretty much agree with every decision made in the tiering so far, and pretty much everything Gary2346 had to say this time around. ESPECIALLY with focusing our attention on the lower-than B- tiers remark. They're pretty wonky, and some are just plain rediculous. I think our attention should shift to cleaning up those for a while now.

My opinions on the matter:

Mega Ampharos - C+ => B or B- (long post explaining why a few pages back, but basically it's one of the few pokemon that can check both Zard Y and Talonflame as well as Rotom-W and Skarmory, has stupidly high special attack, great bulk and typing, and a superb movepool. His poor speed allows him to act as an incredible pivot switch, however, as a Pivot Switch he will get worn down fairly easily and needs Wish Support in this role, although he can easily patch up his poor speed with Agility if you choose to go offensive)

Crawdaunt - B- => B (access to Dragon Dance, most powerful Aqua Jet and Knock Off in the game thanks to massive attack + adaptability, however quite frail so I understand his being kept in B-, still a huge threat for unprepared teams)

Durant - C+ => B (one of the least used pokemon for some strange reason, after one turn of Hone Claws, Durant is one of the scariest sweepers to encounter unprepared thanks to Hustle and his stellar speed, outspeeding Keldeo and Terrakion, however stopped in his tracks by most Mold Breaker pokemon, Mega Gyarados must watch out for X-Scissor however)

Lucario - B => B- (while he has excellent mixed sweeping offensive stats AND he walls Bisharp, his speed without an agility boost is simply not enough to compensate for his frailty. Easily walled by common pokemon such as Skarmory, Quagsire, and Hippowdon. Access to Swords Dance and Extreme Speed is still fairly respectable)

That's about all I got for now.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

One point: why is Mega Alakazam on the same ranking as regular Alakazam (B-)? I think it's pretty clear for everyone that Alakazam outclasses its mega forme on pretty much everything. They should be separated. I think Alakazam is fine where it is, but Megazam should be kicked to C+, or even C.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I read through all the victory road updates, and I pretty much agree with every decision made in the tiering so far, and pretty much everything Gary2346 had to say this time around. ESPECIALLY with focusing our attention on the lower-than B- tiers remark. They're pretty wonky, and some are just plain rediculous. I think our attention should shift to cleaning up those for a while now.

My opinions on the matter:

Mega Ampharos - C+ => B or B- (long post explaining why a few pages back, but basically it's one of the few pokemon that can check both Zard Y and Talonflame as well as Rotom-W and Skarmory, has stupidly high special attack, great bulk and typing, and a superb movepool. His poor speed allows him to act as an incredible pivot switch, however, as a Pivot Switch he will get worn down fairly easily and needs Wish Support in this role, although he can easily patch up his poor speed with Agility if you choose to go offensive)

Crawdaunt - B- => B (access to Dragon Dance, most powerful Aqua Jet and Knock Off in the game thanks to massive attack + adaptability, however quite frail so I understand his being kept in B-, still a huge threat for unprepared teams)

Durant - C+ => B (one of the least used pokemon for some strange reason, after one turn of Hone Claws, Durant is one of the scariest sweepers to encounter unprepared thanks to Hustle and his stellar speed, outspeeding Keldeo and Terrakion, however stopped in his tracks by most Mold Breaker pokemon, Mega Gyarados must watch out for X-Scissor however)

Lucario - B => B- (while he has excellent mixed sweeping offensive stats AND he walls Bisharp, his speed without an agility boost is simply not enough to compensate for his frailty. Easily walled by common pokemon such as Skarmory, Quagsire, and Hippowdon. Access to Swords Dance and Extreme Speed is still fairly respectable)

That's about all I got for now.

iirc Durant was rejected for an analysis, and I don't get why you'd want to use Hone Claws Durant over SD Scizor.

 

[Rosen]

iirc Durant was rejected for an analysis, and I don't get why you'd want to use Hone Claws Durant over SD Scizor.

Durant's hella faster

Although I could understand wanting to keep it lower, it's a fairly high-risk pokemon to use (although also very high reward)