XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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The only reason I can see Ninjask still ranked is the Defog + Speed Boost Baton Passer combo but Combusken is still the better baton passer and there is way better hazards remover but the extra speed boost + defog and baton pass can work with pokemon like victini.

Tho im fine if ninjask dose get un ranked but just a little extra niche that ninjask has.
 
President Shinra said:
Hey Limitless, after tier shifts will everything be unbolded again like last time?
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Most likely.

Peef Rimgar said:
Can you give some sort of reasoning for Ninjask keeping it's ranking? Just saying "this is happening" isn't exactly constructive or helpful in any way.
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Honestly, if you can't figure it out then I'm not sure what you're doing posting in this thread. D rank is for shit Pokemon, and the fact that you don't think Ninjask can provide even the slightest niche is a bit absurd.
 
Ranking changes for C+ rank:
  • Ambipom to C- rank
  • Avalugg to C rank
  • Claydol to C- rank
  • Cryogonal to C- rank
  • Feraligatr staying in C+ rank
  • Ferroseed staying in C+ rank
  • Lickylicky to D rank
  • Lilligant to C- rank
  • Malamar to C rank
  • Meloetta staying in C+ rank
  • Steelix to D rank
  • Swellow to C- rank
  • Tyrantrum to C rank
  • Weezing to B- rank
The next rank up for discussion is C rank.
 
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Limitless said:
Honestly, if you can't figure it out then I'm not sure what you're doing posting in this thread. D rank is for shit Pokemon, and the fact that you don't think Ninjask can provide even the slightest niche is a bit absurd.
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A lot of inexperienced players don't know why many of the Pokemon in the ranking list are placed where they are. Also, even experienced players sometimes don't know what incredibly niche Pokemon such as Ninjask can do in the metagame.

After all, explaining in 1-2 lines why each change happens, especially changes that haven't been discussed at all in this thread, takes practically no time and makes the playerbase happy, so i don't see any downsides in doing it.
 
atomicllamas said:
I wasn't aware being totally outclassed by Combusken was a niche, my bad.
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That would assume Cumbusken is D rank. I said that there would be a time for adding Pokemon. Please read my posts before shit posting or else I will delete them. You don't even play UU.
 
Limitless said:
That would assume Cumbusken is D rank. I said that there would be a time for adding Pokemon. Please read my posts before shit posting or else I will delete them. You don't even play UU.
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I've played over 50 games of UU in the last two days, but even if I had never played a game of UU in my life it wouldn't change the fact that ninjask has no niche in UU. Instead of just placing Pokemon in a certain rank with no explanation and calling people "absurd" for disagreeing with you, you could take alexwolfs advice. I'm done "shit posting" now but in general this entire viability thread is way over inflated. Avulugg has the same rank in the PU viability rankings as it does here (loses to literally every S and A rank physical attacker on this list). Claydol is not viable in RU and I don't see why it would be here. The list goes on.

/end "shitpost"
 
atomicllamas said:
I've played over 50 games of UU in the last two days, but even if I had never played a game of UU in my life it wouldn't change the fact that ninjask has no niche in UU. Instead of just placing Pokemon in a certain rank with no explanation and calling people "absurd" for disagreeing with you, you could take alexwolfs advice. I'm done "shit posting" now but in general this entire viability thread is way over inflated. Avulugg has the same rank in the PU viability rankings as it does here (loses to literally every S and A rank physical attacker on this list). Claydol is not viable in RU and I don't see why it would be here. The list goes on.

/end "shitpost"
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And yet I've played over 2,000 UU games. I have seen Avulugg used quite effectively. You clearly have not. The list goes on.
 
atomicllamas said:
I've played over 50 games of UU in the last two days, but even if I had never played a game of UU in my life it wouldn't change the fact that ninjask has no niche in UU. Instead of just placing Pokemon in a certain rank with no explanation and calling people "absurd" for disagreeing with you, you could take alexwolfs advice. I'm done "shit posting" now but in general this entire viability thread is way over inflated. Avulugg has the same rank in the PU viability rankings as it does here (loses to literally every S and A rank physical attacker on this list). Claydol is not viable in RU and I don't see why it would be here. The list goes on.

/end "shitpost"
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Avalugg is a solid defensive pivot that can take on lots of physical moves. It can take things like Mega-dactyl's Stone Edge easily and still have over half its health.
 
Before the OU drops Barbaracle was pretty much identical to Cloyster in effectiveness tbh, both doing the same thing but being dealt with by slightly different mons, Cloyster being a little stronger but struggled to find set up opportunities compared to Barb. Now there's a common magic guard sash user in the form of Alakazam, Cloyster is pretty much just flat-out better. Should probably go in C-.

Offensive Whimsicott is quite anti-meta rn, outspeeding and OHKOing the likes of Infernape, Mienshao, M-Absol and Starmie, and can fit a clutch support option in its last slot like memento, tailwind or stunspore. It's actually kind of nice, and could rise to C+ or B- imo.
 
yes, it is a solid defensive pivot, and it only gets 3hko'd by megadactyl. but why, in gods name, would you designate a team slot to avalugg, when there are a handful of mons that do the job much better, and you know, aren't shit in nearly every other aspect? it pales in comparison to other stuff that can do this, such as swampert, mega aggron, forretress, alomomola (who are all a huge momentum suck to megadactyl in comparison to avalugg), and probably some other mons that i'm forgetting that can do the job better. sure, it's a spinner with godtier physical defense, but it has shit spdef, a weakness to sr, and the physical bulk, in some cases, doesnt even matter when you get destroyed by the two most common physical attackers (as well as attacking types i guess) in the tier, and lastly, it's pretty much entirely outclassed by forry, who is pretty much one of /the/ best utility mons in the tier. i literally cannot think as to why you would use avalugg over any of the mons i mentioned. there's also a shitload of stuff in the lower ranks that doesn't deserve to be where they are, but i'd probably just waste my time in doing so.

one last point; while most of llamas points are right, a mon can be more viable in one meta than it is in another; just look at granbull, who risedose in popularity due to the immense amount of mons it can counter in the tier, i.e. hera, mien, hydrei, mega absol, etc., while there are not as many mons that justify the need of granbull in lower tiers. (this obviously doesn't justify the placings of claydol, lilligant, and friends but you know what i mean)

hopefully we can stop there.
 
Skankovich said:
Offensive Whimsicott is quite anti-meta rn, outspeeding and OHKOing the likes of Infernape, Mienshao, M-Absol and Starmie, and can fit a clutch support option in its last slot like memento, tailwind or stunspore. It's actually kind of nice, and could rise to C+ or B- imo.
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It also counters Double dance Haxorus, which is a huge selling point for it.
 
Limitless said:
That would assume Cumbusken is D rank. I said that there would be a time for adding Pokemon. Please read my posts before shit posting or else I will delete them. You don't even play UU.
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You do realize you're basically giving the same ridiculous argument for Ninjask that people give for Florges and Donphan in OU, right? Being totally outclassed by something else within a tier does, in fact, make it bottom tier no matter what. At this moment your D-Rank is literally stuff someone might've swept you with once and you were like "oh yeah, thats a pokemon". (I'm not accusing you of making subjective decisions, I am aware how the initial tiering works)
 
while I certainly agree with the sentiment that combusken is more viable than ninjask, I really can't agree with the statement that ninjask has no niche in the metagame

if we're comparing combusken's sub sd protect pass set and ninjask's sub sd protect pass set, there are a couple of niches (again, not trying to claim better or worse here) that ninjask clearly has.

1. The biggest difference is the freeing up of an item slot. bulkypass combusken gets nice defense from eviolite - true! but it loses out on the ability to run something like Mental Herb or Leftovers, which makes it less reliable. It also can't run something like Liechi Berry to be able to pass multiple boosts with only one free turn.
2. Higher speed to begin with! After one protect, Ninjask literally outspeeds the entire metagame, which means it can more effectively lead and guarantee a pass.

i'm going to say this again just so you guys can't possibly miss it and misinterpret it.

ninjask is NOT better than combusken. neither ninjask nor combusken have a large niche in the metagame. however, ninjask is clearly distinct enough to be placed in D rank.
 
Kitten Milk said:
while I certainly agree with the sentiment that combusken is more viable than ninjask, I really can't agree with the statement that ninjask has no niche in the metagame

if we're comparing combusken's sub sd protect pass set and ninjask's sub sd protect pass set, there are a couple of niches (again, not trying to claim better or worse here) that ninjask clearly has.

1. The biggest difference is the freeing up of an item slot. bulkypass combusken gets nice defense from eviolite - true! but it loses out on the ability to run something like Mental Herb or Leftovers, which makes it less reliable. It also can't run something like Liechi Berry to be able to pass multiple boosts with only one free turn.
2. Higher speed to begin with! After one protect, Ninjask literally outspeeds the entire metagame, which means it can more effectively lead and guarantee a pass.

i'm going to say this again just so you guys can't possibly miss it and misinterpret it.

ninjask is NOT better than combusken. neither ninjask nor combusken have a large niche in the metagame. however, ninjask is clearly distinct enough to be placed in D rank.
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Bulk Up is a much better option that Combusken has anyways. I mean, let's look at the pros and cons for a moment:

Ninjask Pros vs. Combusken
  • Initial Speed (which is irrelevant via protect)
  • Item slot (I guess? I mean eviolite helps it do its job as well as it does)
Conbusken Pros vs. Ninjask
  • No SR Weakness, allowing it to switch in more than twice if rocks are up
  • Bulkier, allowing it to pass subs more efficiently
  • Better typing
  • Better passing option via bulk up
  • Can actually set up on certain threats (I stress this because Ninjask can't set up on any relevant mon but like specs Roserade or a banded EQ user, whereas Busken can set up on most grasses, Blissey, Absol [? idk haven't calced Play Rough], Houndoom, etc.)
  • Can carry offensive pressure in Flare Blitz
I mean, when it's basically entirely eclipsed by a mon that I can't see above C+/B-, I don't see it having a rank just because of a minor niche. If we do rank it, we're gonna have to rank complete shitmons like Torkoal because it has a slight niche in a fire type with rapid spin
 
Druddigon==> C- / D / Removed
Completely outclassed by haxorus offensively. Defensively, I guess it has a minuscule niche in being the only Dragon-type that has SR and RS is a cool ability that lets it check some physical attackers like victini, but honestly your better off using something like Rhyperior or swampert for this role. I just don't see this as something viable.

Clawitzer==> C- / D-Rank / Removed
Completely outclassed by most offensive water-types, especially Mega Blastoise. I guess it doesn't take up a Mega slot like Blastoise does, but I honestly would much rather use something like starmie if I wanted a powerful offensive Water-type that doesn't take up a mega slot.

Spiritomb==> C- / D-Rank / Removed
Completely outclassed by Sableye in a supportive role. I suppose it could run an offensive set to eliminate certain Psychic-types, but apart from alakazam, Spiritomb can't switch into most of the stuff that you want to trap with it (ie. Victini OHKOes it with CB V-create). Its also weak as shit.
 
Limitless said:
I'm quite amazed that Ninjask, in D rank, is getting more attention than anything in S to A- rank ever did.
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Do you really want randoms to come to this thread, see Ninjask, and think that it's worth using? Would you honestly not laugh at someone using it in UU? Just some stuff to consider. If you honestly want everything that even has a minuscule niche in the metagame ranked in this thread, there are plenty of Pokemon that aren't totally eclipsed by something else you can choose from. "It can run Mental Herb and Leftovers" is not a valid reason to use it over Combusken, and the fact that it outspeeds the entire meta after one boost matters a lot less when you consider that Combusken can actually take some hits while it's setting up.

People care a lot more about newer users getting incorrect information than they do whether Mew is better than Slowbro.
 
I guess we should deviate from the Ninjask and other mons discussion for now, and talk about C Rank.

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->C+ Has a sick 130 Speed, Volt Switch is nice, Volt Absorb is kinda cool too. One of the few mons that actually outspeeds Alakazam naturally. Makes a nice quick Volt Switch user, and hits decently hard with a Specs set. Of course it's easy to wall though and it's kind of inferior to Raikou, but it finds its perfect matches in C+ in the forms of Heliolisk and Magneton, so I don't see how Jolt is at least in the same rank as them.

621.png
->D Is this thing even worth using? We have a ton of Dragons, like Haxorus, Hydreigon, Goodra, Flygon, and to some extent Kingdra in this tier, and Drudd pales in comparison to them. It's slow in comparison and isn't as impressive offensively as Haxorus or Hydreigon. As a bulky Dragon, Goodra is much more useful thanks to its clutch abilities in Gooey and Sap Sipper (Rough Skin is cool but not enough to justify using Drudd). Let's not forget Kingdra and Flygon. I mean, I know Druddigon can be effective, but is there any merit to using it over other Dragons at all? It's also quite ugly.

655.png
->D/off the list Basically like Druddigon. It's not horrible but it's completely outclassed. Victini completely outclasses it, is far more versatile, and has U-turn and ridiculous STABs to make this fox pale in comparison. Chandelure also makes it look like a joke, as it has much more Special Attack and has Calm Mind too! There is no niche for this thing.

441.png
->C- It has Boomburst but it's still relatively mediocre. It's not fast enough to sweep and is very frail. It's much worse than Exploud, who is currently C+.

475.png
->C-/D Heracross is a lot better, as is Mienshao. There's also Lucario. It doesn't have much going for it and is pretty much outclassed.

I am running out of time but here are a few that stood out to me. The others I am either fine with keeping in C or I have no experience with.
 
i dont really feel like nomming shitmons but i wanna make a few noms today:

242.png
-A+; sure, it's pretty much the sole reason that a good majority of the special attackers in the tier are generally inferior, but as koko said, it pretty much forces you to use it on a generally inferior playstyle, and with the general popularity of hard-hitting physical attackers such as victini, mienshao, heracross, and lucario, im not sure that it's s rank material.

594.png
-A-; it's a really reliable wishpasser and is still good on balance / stall teams, but it's passive to the point where it has to rely on scald burns / toic to do any sort of damage, and with the resurgence of suicune, as well as roserade, shaymin, and hera (who fucks it over more than it ever did cune) being popular choices in the metagame which both fuck it over entirely, make it not a material.

385.png
-A or A+; in the past few weeks ive found jirachi to be a really good choice for offensive teams; aside from the fact that it can pretty much shit on an insanely large portion of the meta with subtoxic, it provides a useful dragon resist for offensive teams while being able to set up rocks reliably. it's also probably the most versatile mon in the tier, with access to healing wish, u-turn, moonblast on cm sets i think, pretty much anything. also, don't get me started on paraflinch :[

671.png
- A-; I know i probably said a few weeks ago that aroma was p much better than flogre, but after playing around with it it's still pretty good. basically, in the current meta it has a lot of notable advantages over aromatisse, such as countering the likes of blastoise. there's also the fact that it can switch into mega amph without taking 50% from volt switch. .-.

also drudd should really stay where it is at the least, rough skin + rocky helmet is pretty annoying considering the high amount of physical attackers in the tier, and it also has a surprisingly good movepool coupled with its good attack. that's all i really know about it but its not gutter trash like people believe it is.
 
>makes post with multiple acknowledgements that combusken is better than ninjask
>is responded to with a list of pros and cons showing that combusken is better than ninjask

...

and re: the one part of your post that wasn't about how combusken was better

Peef Rimgar said:
I mean, when it's basically entirely eclipsed by a mon that I can't see above C+/B-, I don't see it having a rank just because of a minor niche. If we do rank it, we're gonna have to rank complete shitmons like Torkoal because it has a slight niche in a fire type with rapid spin
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D Rank Description
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current UU metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble then they're worth the majority of the time.
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I really shouldn't even have to address the Torkoal thing, but eh. If someone makes a successful team in which Torkoal is used and provides a niche that is not adequately filled by any other Pokemon in the current viability ranking, it's very conceivable that we would rank it at D, providing they made a compelling argument. I don't think that you, or many of the other people posting about Ninjask / Combusken, have been that active in UU. The reason I mention this isn't to discredit you, but rather to point out that you may not have knowledge of successful teams that employed Ninjask. As someone who's played UU since the very beginning, I have run into and perhaps even had trouble with Ninjask in the higher sections of the ladder. It's by no means a "good" Poke, but that doesn't mean it can't ever be used effectively.

In order for something to be added to the list of viable mons, it needs to be demonstrated that it fulfills a role in a different manner - and fills it effectively - than a pokemon already on the list. Conversely, in order for something to be removed from the list of viable mons, it would need to be demonstrated that another Pokemon entirely outclasses it in every sense of the word - in other words, that there would be no logical reason to ever use the aforementioned Pokemon.

This is not the case with Ninjask. Is Combusken better 90% of the time? Yes. Does Combusken usually fill Ninjask's role better than it can? Yes.

However, Ninjask does have a small niche. Even if you want to trivialize it or say that it isn't good, the item slot and higher speed combined make Ninjask far more reliable (in the sense that it isn't shut down by anything faster than +1 55 base speed Combusken, and that it isn't shut down by taunt), and this is enough of a niche to put it at D rank, a rank whose description fits Ninjask to a T.

EDIT: Bouff, I doubt that any adjustments to the higher ranks will occur given that the drops will re-shift everything in a week or so anyway.
 
Kitten Milk said:
>makes post with multiple acknowledgements that combusken is better than ninjask
>is responded to with a list of pros and cons showing that combusken is better than ninjask

...

and re: the one part of your post that wasn't about how combusken was better



D Rank Description


I really shouldn't even have to address the Torkoal thing, but eh. If someone makes a successful team in which Torkoal is used and provides a niche that is not adequately filled by any other Pokemon in the current viability ranking, it's very conceivable that we would rank it at D, providing they made a compelling argument. I don't think that you, or many of the other people posting about Ninjask / Combusken, have been that active in UU. The reason I mention this isn't to discredit you, but rather to point out that you may not have knowledge of successful teams that employed Ninjask. As someone who's played UU since the very beginning, I have run into and perhaps even had trouble with Ninjask in the higher sections of the ladder. It's by no means a "good" Poke, but that doesn't mean it can't ever be used effectively.

In order for something to be added to the list of viable mons, it needs to be demonstrated that it fulfills a role in a different manner - and fills it effectively - than a pokemon already on the list. Conversely, in order for something to be removed from the list of viable mons, it would need to be demonstrated that another Pokemon entirely outclasses it in every sense of the word - in other words, that there would be no logical reason to ever use the aforementioned Pokemon.

This is not the case with Ninjask. Is Combusken better 90% of the time? Yes. Does Combusken usually fill Ninjask's role better than it can? Yes.

However, Ninjask does have a small niche. Even if you want to trivialize it or say that it isn't good, the item slot and higher speed combined make Ninjask far more reliable (in the sense that it isn't shut down by anything faster than +1 55 base speed Combusken, and that it isn't shut down by taunt), and this is enough of a niche to put it at D rank, a rank whose description fits Ninjask to a T.

EDIT: Bouff, I doubt that any adjustments to the higher ranks will occur given that the drops will re-shift everything in a week or so anyway.
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I'm not saying you didn't point that out, I'm just saying that when a pokemon is that eclipsed by a mon already considered mediocre (to a point where it wasn't even initially ranked) it shouldn't be ranked itself, even if it has a miniscule niche.

Also, just because I'm not neccisarily active in the subforum doesn't mean I'm not knowledgeable of the metagame. UU is probably one of my strongest standard tiers, as a matter of fact. I just can't be asked to post sometimes.

Look im gonna quit before i get infracted, you guys do you i guess

EDIT: Also if you guys ever rank torkoal i will straight up quit pokemon
 
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