Your Starter Pokemon

[Pocket]

It's awesome to see the site updated with all the cool graphics, information, and articles! I've read Jumpman's Starter Pokemon (Advance) analysis and found some errors / issues. Starting from the top..

- I don't think Sceptile is a good lead when it is at a disadvantage to Ninjask, Salamence, Jolteon (T-Wave / HP Ice), and Aerodactyl. The only advantage it has are over Milotic and Swampert. Plus Endeavor + Petaya Sweep rarely works from the get go. I'd much rather save this thing for later and time its set up. It can also subseed, but this is also a strategy that works much better further into the game imo.

However, I should note that as far as Gengar and Starmie are concerned, the fact that they do have better things to do does factor into my assessment that they are not good starters, because if you are using them as starter Pokémon, then you are obviously not using them in the ways I feel they are most effective, regardless of the rest of your team.

You mean "Alakazam," not Gengar. The sentence is also too long and kind of loses its message because of its lengthiness.

Trickbanding is a pretty sweet idea, but as I said earlier, you may just meet a Snorlax if not put opposite that or a Metagross heads-up.

Confusing Phrase Bolded

Even in spite of MM likely striking the forthcoming Skarmory or bulky Water, Metagross makes a great starter with or without CB, one who cannot be OHKOed—or threatened, really—except by Dugtrio or [Fire-type] and if you think it's a good idea to start either then I guess you're reading the right article!

Good idea to start either with CBGross or non-CB Gross? Or a good idea to start out with Dugtrio / Fire-type, which means they're not reading the right article? You could write this sentence more simply and clearly.

Obvious Blissey/Snorlax bait but that's something you should actually be taking advantage of by now.

I think you're expecting too much from your readers. Maybe you could explain how they could take advantage of it. (IE It attracts Blissey / Snorlax that absorbs Ice's attacks without any trouble, but you can use this knowledge to bring in your powerful physical sweepers, such as Metagross, Heracross, and CBTar, when the opponent predictably switches into his / her Regice counters.

I see Venusaur not a worthy starter, with Gengar, Aerodactyl, Metagross, and Salamence having the upper edge. I see this guy's role more closer related to that of Blissey's; Venusaur should be saved for absorbing damages later. That way it could show its face more unexpectedly and fire a more successful Sleep Powder.

Suicune with Ice Beam is just as good a starter as Milotic or Swampert imo. Sure it lacks power, but it has better physical defense to guarantee a win against most physical starters.

Don't try to predict a Metagross or non-FB Snorlax lead, because in the long run, it's just not smart Pokémon, especially given how poorly Skarmory stacks up against many of the recommended leads. (Logic dictates that it would be even less smart to lead Magneton, of course, so I'm not even going to say any more about Maggy.)

The bolded phrase is not something that I hear commonly, and doesn't help with the sentence's clarity imo.

I also think Magneton deserves its own separate explanation, just like Dugtrio had one, and maybe mention its trapping ability rather than assuming the reader knows it.

You shouldn't assume that the reader know's Dugtrio's Arena Trap, and I think you should include a brief phrase / sentence of the trait's significance and why because of its trait, it shouldn't be an opener.

Tyranitar is a great opener for a TSS Team; the team is well-prepared for the sandstorm, and by opening with Ttar, it can get its upper edge by having the storm at the start of the game. Ttar is easy to bring into the battle, but it's a powerful pokemon even without the sandstorm, and Ttar switch-ins still expose the monster to damages.

Sorry for the nitpicking, and thanks for the time and effort in writing this article of fundamentals

 

[chaos]

Thanks for being the first post in Article Workshop! I'll tell Jumpman someone commented on his article ;)

 

[Jumpman16]

- I don't think Sceptile is a good lead when it is at a disadvantage to Ninjask, Salamence, Jolteon (T-Wave / HP Ice), and Aerodactyl. The only advantage it has are over Milotic and Swampert. Plus Endeavor + Petaya Sweep rarely works from the get go. I'd much rather save this thing for later and time its set up. It can also subseed, but this is also a strategy that works much better further into the game imo.

Ok. I'm going to need a lot more people to weigh in on individual poke issues, though, as I brought up in the thread last month, because it just isn't fair to take one person's yea or nay opinion on one poke. That's part of the reason I kept the thread open for so long.

And besides actual opinion, HP Ice Sceptile is straight from the RS analysis, featuring in four of the five sets. It directly wards off Salamence, as mentioned in the article. Sceptile is also at a clear advantage over a Slaking lead because of Sub. That's two more leads it has a distinct advantage against.

You mean "Alakazam," not Gengar. The sentence is also too long and kind of loses its message because of its lengthiness.

Ok, I'll change it to Alakazam and add a period.

Confusing Phrase Bolded

Good idea to start either with CBGross or non-CB Gross? Or a good idea to start out with Dugtrio / Fire-type, which means they're not reading the right article? You could write this sentence more simply and clearly.

I think replacing "start" with "lead with" would alleviate some confusion, but the only things I could be referring to when I say "either" are the two groups directly preceding it. To have been referring to Metagross would've made me guilty of having used a dangling modifier since Metagross is referred to at the beginning of a sentence.

And logically, if you do think it's a good idea to lead with Dugtrio or a Fire-Type, that means that you are reading the right article because I detail why it's not advised. That's all I meant...I know I wrote the sentence so it's not a different pair of eyes reading it but I honestly don't see why you were confused apart from the notion of a possible dangling modifier.

I think you're expecting too much from your readers. Maybe you could explain how they could take advantage of it. (IE It attracts Blissey / Snorlax that absorbs Ice's attacks without any trouble, but you can use this knowledge to bring in your powerful physical sweepers, such as Metagross, Heracross, and CBTar, when the opponent predictably switches into his / her Regice counters.

My mindset was to not directly advocate switching Regice out on Turn 1 because that somewhat contradicts its advocation as a lead, but a note about why it's still a good lead seems to be in order.

I see Venusaur not a worthy starter, with Gengar, Aerodactyl, Metagross, and Salamence having the upper edge. I see this guy's role more closer related to that of Blissey's; Venusaur should be saved for absorbing damages later. That way it could show its face more unexpectedly and fire a more successful Sleep Powder.

Suicune with Ice Beam is just as good a starter as Milotic or Swampert imo. Sure it lacks power, but it has better physical defense to guarantee a win against most physical starters.

As above, these are more committee decisions than individual ones, as I gave Smogon more than enough time to sound off on good/bad leads originally.

The bolded phrase is not something that I hear commonly, and doesn't help with the sentence's clarity imo.

To be honest with you, I flat out disagree. I'm not really concerned with how common the phrase is, as it's a direct adaptation as the very common "good baseball/basketball" and pretty much any sport you can think of. Regardless, with the context clues there's really no mistaking what I could possibly be saying, even if you're not familiar with the saying I'm adapting.

I also think Magneton deserves its own separate explanation, just like Dugtrio had one, and maybe mention its trapping ability rather than assuming the reader knows it.

You shouldn't assume that the reader know's Dugtrio's Arena Trap, and I think you should include a brief phrase / sentence of the trait's significance and why because of its trait, it shouldn't be an opener.

I think it's a good idea to mention the abilities parenthetically, but both theory and practice tell me why Magneton wasn't used much as a lead meaning it makes little sense to do it any justice. Theory dictates that its only clear advantage over the actual good leads is limited to one pokemon, Milotic, since Swampert started to run more SpD as Advance matured thanks to Boah, meaning that even if it DID have HP Grass it probably wouldn't OHKO. But practice is the trump card here, as my experiences showed that Magneton just wasn't a popular lead at all. Presumably, people would use it to try to catch lead Skarmory, but I've already stated why Skarmory's a bad lead so it literally goes without saying why Magneton isn't a good one.

Tyranitar is a great opener for a TSS Team; the team is well-prepared for the sandstorm, and by opening with Ttar, it can get its upper edge by having the storm at the start of the game. Ttar is easy to bring into the battle, but it's a powerful pokemon even without the sandstorm, and Ttar switch-ins still expose the monster to damages.

If one or two more people agree then I can add it, I think this makes three now (though I don't know what you mean with your last sentence).

Sorry for the nitpicking, and thanks for the time and effort in writing this article of fundamentals

Thanks for weighing in.

 

[Acredula]

I agree with the Ttar lead thing. It isn't fast, and there is no Choice Scarf in Adv, but it can take a lot of leads or simply switch out after Sandstorm gets running.