Zygarde [QC 2/3]; Writing

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Celticpride

Celticpride

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[OVERVIEW]
  • Ground / Dragon is a strong STAB combo
  • Advantage over Garchomp is access to Dragon Dance and priority
  • Only has Outrage for Dragon STAB, making it more susceptible to revenge killing and Fairies
  • Decent speed tier for a DDer
  • Access to Extremespeed is another reason to use it
  • Has great natural bulk
  • 4x Ice weakness hurts, and Ice coverage in the form of HP Ice and Ice Punch is common due to the ubiquity of Landorus-T and Garchomp
[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Extremespeed
move 4: Outrage / Stone Edge
item: Lum Berry / Life Orb
ability: Aura Break
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Dragon Dance allows it to boost its speed and attack
  • Earthquake has good neutral coverage and offers solid damage
  • Extremespeed can pick off weakened targets
  • Outrage provides complimentary STAB coverage
  • Stone Edge hits Flying types and Levitating Pokemon that are immune to Earthquake, without locking into Outrage
Set Details
========
  • Max attack allows it to hit as hard as possible
  • Max speed allows it to outspeed as much as possible
  • Adamant offers extra punch, Jolly outspeeds some threats at the cost of power
  • Specifically, Jolly lets Zygarde outspeed Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl; it also lets Zygarde outspeed targets Jolly Pinsir, Jolly Heracross, and +Spe Kyurem-B before a Dragon Dance
  • Lum Berry can avoid status, especially Scald burns, when setting up
  • Life Orb offers extra power, but makes it harder to take advantage of Zygardes bulk due to life orb recoil
  • Yache Berry can help with set up against Ice Shard users such as Weavile, and allows it to take some other non-STAB Ice attacks, such as a Hidden power Ice from Mega Manectric
Usage Tips
========
  • Wants to wear down its own counters early game
  • Set up DD and sweep later game, after other threats have applied pressure
  • While Outrage provides strong complimentary coverage, the locking effect can be very unhelpful especially in early game stages
  • Unboosted Extremespeed can pick off some weakened targets as needed
  • Zygarde should be saved for late game situations if you intend to sweep with it, as it needs to be as close to full HP as possible to abuse its bulk
Team Options
========
  • Teammates that can lure and damage Lando-T are a plus
  • Bulky attackers can help, due to how easily Zygarde can stack weaknesses, especially an Ice weakness
  • Hazard stacking offenses benefit Zygarde
  • A strong breaker that can beat stall as well as force out fat Grounds could be helpful, Keldeo and Manaphy are examples of teammates in this vain
  • Keldeo is particular can threaten most Steels that wall Zygarde, as well as check most Ice types
  • Mega Diancie can beat Togekiss, who walls Zygarde lacking Stone Edge
  • Mega Alakazam shares many similar checks to Zygarde, and can Taunt / Encore those checks, can also use HP Ice to help walbreak
  • Mega Medicham can wallbreak against fatter teams, and has Bullet Punch to beat Mega Diancie, Thunder Punch Mega Medicham is especially good
  • Grass Knot Mega Metagross can help breaking fatter teams, as can Latios
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Coil is another boosting set, consisting of Dragon Tail / Earthquake / Coil / Sub, although it is not as good as DD due to limits on speed in the more offensive meta. Takes a slower route to setting up
  • Coverage options such as Iron Tail and Superpower are possible, although they can have trouble fitting in Zygarde's moveset
  • lare can be used to cripple checks
Checks and Counters
===================

**Skarmory**: Zygarde can't really touch Skarmory at all regardless of coverage

**Ground-types**: Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp can all present issues for a Zygarde sweep

**Grass Types**: Physically defensive Grass types, such as Tangrowth and Amoongus, can eat a +1 Outrage and retaliate with status, STAB moves, or HP Ice

**Water-types**: Similar to Ground types, various bulky Waters can prevent a Zygarde sweep given that they switch in on the DD

**Unaware**: Quagsire and Clefable both don't care about DD, and can take unboosted attacks. Quag is 2HKOed by Outrage, but that also requires locking yourself into Outrage

**Choice Scarf users**: Specifically those that outspeed +1 Jolly and resist Extremespeed. Not many of those but some lesser used sets like Scarf Terrakion can check in this manner.

**Ice-types**: If they can't be KOed by ESpeed, faster Ice types as well as Ice Shard users can revenge or switch in on the DD and outspeed it
 
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Honestly, Keldeo is a pretty shotty mon at pressuring stall, since stall usually runs consistent ways of handling Keldeo. You would be better off mentioning mons like Hoopa-U, Magma Storm Heatran, or other more consistent stallbreakers if you really want to mention them. Hoopa-U does pressure Slowbro and wear down Ground-types, and Heatran pressures Ferrothorn and can lure Slowbro with a Power Herb-boosted Solarbeam as well.

Not that Keldeo is a bad teammate for Zygarde, it pressure grounds and Ferrothorn and can fish for a Scald burn on Slowbro, as well as being able to put pressure on Weavile. It is just not a very good stallbreaker, since stall has little difficulty preparing for it.
 
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Overview

Mention that its Dragon STAB is relegated to Outrage only, which means it's a more susceptible to revenge killing by fairies / steels than some other DDers

Add a bit about its great bulk

Guess I would venture more on the side of "OK speed tier" since you speed tie Kyu-B which is sorta relevant since it blows you back

Dragon Dance

Moves
Simplify Extremespeed to just picking off weakened mons in general. It can be to pick things off before a DD too so yeah doesn't have to be scarfers

Set Details
Details of what you outspeed with Jolly vs Adamant, like not outspeeding Mega Aero / Zam & Scarf Jolly Exca at +1 with Adamant. Losing out on Hera/Pinsir pre-evo, prior to a DD as well as 8 Spe SpD Talon being able to burn you before you attack outside of ESpeed, and naturally losing to any Kyu-B that runs +Spe

I would also personally put Life Orb slashed before Lum Berry and just keep Yache in set details. The power you get to boost your attacks is sometimes more important than the ability to tank hits:

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 130-154 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 169-200 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That said you can make it the slash after Lum if you feel strongly about it, but I think Yache is the more niche option here.

Usage Tips
Save Zygarde for late game if you intend to sweep since it wants to take advantage of its bulk by being at full HP

Team Options
Yeah Magnezone is good so you can remove the probably

Mega Diancie threatens Togekiss, and Dragons that outspeed Zygarde like Latios, while being able to lure Steel-types with HP Fire if you opt to go in that direction

Mega Alakazam is a nice wallbreaker that can Taunt similar checks in Skarmory and threaten a ton of other offensive stuff that can check Zygarde. Many people rely on Ferrothorn as a secondary Zam check, which means it can also weaken it for Zygarde sometimes. For both Zam & Diancie, Zygarde helps because unlike Dragonite it can beat Clefable

Keldeo threatens most Steel-type walls to Zygarde and checks the majority of Ice-types in the tier pretty well

Mega Medicham provides wallbreaking power to weaken things for Zygarde and tends to lure in stuff like Lando-T and Garchomp. Bullet Punch helps with weakness to Diancie

Other Options
A little more detail on the Coil set

Considering Yache Berry is mentioned in the main set I don't think it needs to be here.

Checks and Counters

Bulky Grass-types. Primarily physically defensive Tangrowth and Amoonguss since they can take a +1 Outrage and retaliate with status moves (if you're LO) and sometimes carry HP Ice.

Ice Shard users. Realistically ESpeed can pick them off if weakened but a Weavile or Mamoswine near full HP is not going to be taken out by +1 ESpeed, and Ice Shard will do a ton

QC 1/3
 
bludz said:
Overview

Mention that its Dragon STAB is relegated to Outrage only, which means it's a more susceptible to revenge killing by fairies / steels than some other DDers

Add a bit about its great bulk

Guess I would venture more on the side of "OK speed tier" since you speed tie Kyu-B which is sorta relevant since it blows you back

Dragon Dance

Moves
Simplify Extremespeed to just picking off weakened mons in general. It can be to pick things off before a DD too so yeah doesn't have to be scarfers

Set Details
Details of what you outspeed with Jolly vs Adamant, like not outspeeding Mega Aero / Zam & Scarf Jolly Exca at +1 with Adamant. Losing out on Hera/Pinsir pre-evo, prior to a DD as well as 8 Spe SpD Talon being able to burn you before you attack outside of ESpeed, and naturally losing to any Kyu-B that runs +Spe

I would also personally put Life Orb slashed before Lum Berry and just keep Yache in set details. The power you get to boost your attacks is sometimes more important than the ability to tank hits:

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 130-154 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 169-200 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That said you can make it the slash after Lum if you feel strongly about it, but I think Yache is the more niche option here.

Usage Tips
Save Zygarde for late game if you intend to sweep since it wants to take advantage of its bulk by being at full HP

Team Options
Yeah Magnezone is good so you can remove the probably

Mega Diancie threatens Togekiss, and Dragons that outspeed Zygarde like Latios, while being able to lure Steel-types with HP Fire if you opt to go in that direction

Mega Alakazam is a nice wallbreaker that can Taunt similar checks in Skarmory and threaten a ton of other offensive stuff that can check Zygarde. Many people rely on Ferrothorn as a secondary Zam check, which means it can also weaken it for Zygarde sometimes. For both Zam & Diancie, Zygarde helps because unlike Dragonite it can beat Clefable

Keldeo threatens most Steel-type walls to Zygarde and checks the majority of Ice-types in the tier pretty well

Mega Medicham provides wallbreaking power to weaken things for Zygarde and tends to lure in stuff like Lando-T and Garchomp. Bullet Punch helps with weakness to Diancie

Other Options
A little more detail on the Coil set

Considering Yache Berry is mentioned in the main set I don't think it needs to be here.

Checks and Counters

Bulky Grass-types. Primarily physically defensive Tangrowth and Amoonguss since they can take a +1 Outrage and retaliate with status moves (if you're LO) and sometimes carry HP Ice.

Ice Shard users. Realistically ESpeed can pick them off if weakened but a Weavile or Mamoswine near full HP is not going to be taken out by +1 ESpeed, and Ice Shard will do a ton

QC 1/3
Click to expand...
Did this
 
not qc, but having used this thing a lot, i would like to expand (not too much because if i did you'd be like screw this non-qc guy i ain't adding all of that):

overview
- looks good, but i would definitely have extremespeed mentioned because that is one of the few reasons it is used in the first place

dragon dance
- 8hp gives you the recoil number so 8hp / 248 atk / 252 spe is the most efficient spread, but idk we are supposed to get that complicated with analyses anyways

moves
- everything is good, except i would like to see crunch mentioned in moves. most of the 'mons that resist earthquake right now in ou, are already hit by outrage / stone edge, but the former locks you in, and the latter can miss. crunch ignores both, but has the added benefit of koing the latis reliably, while also hitting celebi, gengar,... i personally find this move best with a lum berry because shit like tflame can still burn you, but it still can be a game changer. a small mention imo because outrage and stone edge still have more use, but crunch has nice use

set details
- was going to say everything bludz said, but you have it all down

usage tips
- looks good as well

team options
- i disagree with the statement you made with how you can't use it with garchomp and landorus-t. it may stack an ice weakness, but zygarde isn't really meant for bulky offense, but a "bulky hyper offense" with good synergetic pokemon like keldeo, latios, metagross,...with landorus-t and garchomp to pivot into. it has extremespeed to use, so offensive hazard stack is really cute. the only case i would make that is if you have a mega venusaur on your team, which is probably the only time i'm using zygarde on a bulky offense. overall, i'd replace it with that you'll want good bulky attackers because of how it commonly stack weaknesses versus i'm not allowed to use garchomp and landorus-t because i have this tapeworm !
- thunderpunch medicham in particular
- gk metagross
- hp ice (mega) alakazam in particular
- tbolt / hp fire latios

other options
- mention how coil can completely dismantle balance (w/ hazards) to a point where it can be cleaned by shit like m-lop and specs keldeo for example. if you have rocks and layer of spikes for example, zygarde won't have too much trouble setting up sub with its natural bulk and can just phaze the shit while boosting paving a way for a cleaner if not winning all by itself.
- band is ass lol
- superpower
- iron tail
- glare

c&c
- nice

just some things i would like to see added :]
 
yeah go ahead and implement what vertex said

wouldn't it just be better to specify ice types instead of just ice shard? im i don't like putting specific moves in c&c unless it's one of the mons biggest issues (ie chansey + taunt). i wouldn't say ice type revenge killing is exactly limited to just ice shard anyway so something to consider changing.

2/3
 
imo sub coil is worth a set. you honestly just need sr and you can wreck havoc on some squads. lati/exca who could remove your hazards are ohkod by your stabs so you're kinda free to cause a ruckus. additionally, unlike dd, subcoil has the added bulk to more effectively take on zard-y. as it is, zyg's main defensive niche is being a soft zard-y check (which you should probably mention in the analysis). coil more freely abuses this while dd just gives it a set up opportunity. on stall, stuff like quagsire can't even break the sub. at +1, defensive landorus-t also fails to break it with just one boost. its bulk is actually pretty legit. ferrothorn also can't break at +1.. skarmory is outphazed. etc etc. it's how i would run zygarde if i were going to, anyway.
 
dice said:
imo sub coil is worth a set. you honestly just need sr and you can wreck havoc on some squads. lati/exca who could remove your hazards are ohkod by your stabs so you're kinda free to cause a ruckus. additionally, unlike dd, subcoil has the added bulk to more effectively take on zard-y. as it is, zyg's main defensive niche is being a soft zard-y check (which you should probably mention in the analysis). coil more freely abuses this while dd just gives it a set up opportunity. on stall, stuff like quagsire can't even break the sub. at +1, defensive landorus-t also fails to break it with just one boost. its bulk is actually pretty legit. ferrothorn also can't break at +1.. skarmory is outphazed. etc etc. it's how i would run zygarde if i were going to, anyway.
Click to expand...
Agreed, it can seriously tear apart defensive teams. Its subs are not broken by Seismic Toss, they're not broken by Foul Play from the likes of Mega Sableye, and they're not broken by weak Scalds. So essentially everything on stall and a lot of things on bulky offense are complete setup fodder.
 
Zygarde's Sub Coil set should actually be a set rather than a mention. The ability to set up on defensive mons and helping to prevent stall is something that should be looked at carefully.

Not to many Pokemon can pull a Sub Coil set, but thanks to Zygarde's typing and bulk, it pulls it off nicely. :]
 
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