Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

GummyRowlets said:
What is OLT HYPE? (it's in the title of the forum)
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The Official Ladder Tournament, which is loved by many and an exciting time for OU players both as spectators and newcomers hoping to make a name for themselves, is set to begin next week. It's a fun chaotic tournament where players try to finish top 8 in the ladder by the deadline in order to qualify for the next stage of playoffs. We usually see a lot of new metagame development in unexpected ways, so that's why I say it's a fun time for all.

OLT Forum https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/official-ladder-tournament.465/
OLT Discussion Thread from 2023 https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-official-olt-x-discussion-thread.3725065/
 
TPP said:
In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams? I have no clue but move on from whatever the past few pages were and try and discuss this for now.
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I'm hoping Psychic Terrain makes a comeback. not expecting. Just hoping. I remember Vert had a really nice Psyspam win awhile back.

I'm also hoping for more Tera Blast innovation.

Magcargo said:
Hax spam teams + Misty Surge GWeezing counterpick will likely be on the rise on the upper end of ladder.

I'm expecting some niche mons to rise in usage like Sinestro, Fezandipti, etc. to help check some meta threats, though we'll see some easy counter tech for that like Psyshock Rai and Knock Off Ogerpon.

Hawlucha teams I think might seem some more usage since their wincon isn't too hard.

Anti-Zama tech will be spammed I think. Tera Ghost Tusk, Tera Ghost Gambit, Tera Ghost Kyurem, etc.

Speaking of Kyurem, we will likely start seeing some of the more MU fishy sets pop up. I think there will be some big Kyurem innovations here with stronger cores relying on it & players getting more greedy on what they run on it w/ adequate Tera & team support to compensate.
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This mention of Misty Surge Geezing and anti-Zama tech had me thinking of the Psychic Seed Zama I put on my Psyspam team. Zama was one of the few mons I tested that actually benefited from the special defense boost enough to justify it over Grassy Seed. But I feel like Zama could be even better on Misty Terrain with the status immunity.

peepeepoopoo722 said:
Been cooking today with restalk zama and the rest of the team nearly dedicated to riding of ghosts and to a lesser extent glowking. Tera dark knock off doexys. Tera fairy on hsam for dragapult. Flamethrower glowking.
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Tera Dark on D-Speed is one of the few things in this gen I can take credit for. It's a beast.
 
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I’ve been taking a bit of a break the last week due to IRL stuff (moving soon, work changed locations, and other personal things), but plan on ramping back up with OLT and am still following discussions of course.

If anyone has any concerns or questions, feel free to tag me or message me later this week and I will be more present.
 
I think that Rain is going to 100% pop off in this OLT. And that's another reason why stall is going to rise (I think that stall can adapt and do extremely well aganist Rain since it has historically done in the last 3 gens)
From what I've been testing this last couple of weeks, modern teams area reaaaally unprepared for stuff like this team by vkhss used in the WCoP (I've actually started to watch competitive games yeah).

Overqwill + Barraskewda + 1-2 Special Attackers seems like a really deadly combination, specially when accounting that unlike Barraskewda that has like water attacks and sometimes clicks Fighting move (mostly bluffs it) overqwill after an SD can trade a 2-1 or even 3-1 easily, sometimes the mons that stop the rain's momentum.
 
Achohermano said:
I think that Rain is going to 100% pop off in this OLT. And that's another reason why stall is going to rise (I think that stall can adapt and do extremely well aganist Rain since it has historically done in the last 3 gens)
From what I've been testing this last couple of weeks, modern teams area reaaaally unprepared for stuff like this team by vkhss used in the WCoP (I've actually started to watch competitive games yeah).

Overqwill + Barraskewda + 1-2 Special Attackers seems like a really deadly combination, specially when accounting that unlike Barraskewda that has like water attacks and sometimes clicks Fighting move (mostly bluffs it) overqwill after an SD can trade a 2-1 or even 3-1 easily, sometimes the mons that stop the rain's momentum.
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chat, what do we think of thundurus-t as anti-rain tech? sits on treads and prevents it from volt-switching, obviously bodies pelipper, tera fairy hardwalls bolt, and those three guys are the crux of every modern rain team. seems like it could potentially be good on rain teams also—flinging around perfectly-accurate thunders off of base 145 spa is probably useful against something
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
chat, what do we think of thundurus-t as anti-rain tech? sits on treads and prevents it from volt-switching, obviously bodies pelipper, tera fairy hardwalls bolt, and those three guys are the crux of every modern rain team. seems like it could potentially be good on rain teams also—flinging around perfectly-accurate thunders off of base 145 spa is probably useful against something
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My issue with the Bolt match-up is Thundurus basically needs Tera Blast to hurt it back, which takes a moveslot that's inconsistent unless he's your Tera Hog for anti-Rain match-up.

If it weren't for this thing and Wake, I'd wonder about the viability of Sunny Day as a tech for this, robbing Rain Sweepers of their Speed and Water Boost as the main thing Thundurus-T has to be wary of (weird thinking of a Rain answer that takes on everything except the actual Swimmers)
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
chat, what do we think of thundurus-t as anti-rain tech? sits on treads and prevents it from volt-switching, obviously bodies pelipper, tera fairy hardwalls bolt, and those three guys are the crux of every modern rain team. seems like it could potentially be good on rain teams also—flinging around perfectly-accurate thunders off of base 145 spa is probably useful against something
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Tera Thundurus actually doesn't stop Bolt on rain because it likes to slot Wball to take out grounds without the drawback of -2 SpA from clicking Draco. I also agree that having to slot Tera Blast to actually hit it is not ideal, especially since it invites Treads in freely anyway and you're dropping your EQ immunity (and Tera obviously).
 
CrispyFries said:
Tera Thundurus actually doesn't stop Bolt on rain because it likes to slot Wball to take out grounds without the drawback of -2 SpA from clicking Draco. I also agree that having to slot Tera Blast to actually hit it is not ideal, especially since it invites Treads in freely anyway and you're dropping your EQ immunity (and Tera obviously).
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It all fun and games when a Tera Ground Kommo-o shows up and ruins Thundurus-Therian straight up, with being Immune to Weather Ball and Focus Blast thanks to Bulletproof, if it runs Water type Tera Blast instead, it is able to OHKO Tera Ground Kommo-o. Grass Knot 2HKOes it instead, Tera Ground Kommo-o takes about 41.9 - 49.4% from Grass Knot at +1 SpD (Pressuming this is the Clangorous Soul set), Thundurus-Therian gets destroyed by a Tera Normal boosted Boomburst at +1 SpA
 
Hyper-Go-ons said:
It all fun and games when a Tera Ground Kommo-o shows up and ruins Thundurus-Therian straight up, with being Immune to Weather Ball and Focus Blast thanks to Bulletproof, if it runs Water type Tera Blast instead, it is able to OHKO Tera Ground Kommo-o. Grass Knot 2HKOes it instead, Tera Ground Kommo-o takes about 41.9 - 49.4% from Grass Knot at +1 SpD (Pressuming this is the Clangorous Soul set), Thundurus-Therian gets destroyed by a Tera Normal boosted Boomburst at +1 SpA
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Do you live in an alternate dimension where people use Kommo-o
 
Underrated Threats I Expect To See In OLT
:Kyurem: Specifically DD kyurem. DD special had a moment but physical has kind of taken a backseat. I predict more icicle spears will be coming our way.
:Sinistcha: OR :Iron Crown: Depending if kyurem gets a lot of usage we will probably see either A (no kyurem) or B (lots of Kyurem). To expand on this I think calm mind users are underrated right now as special bulk that also hits hard can be tough to take down
:Great Tusk: Bulk up tusk is a bit underrated right now and all it needs is an unexpected tera type. How about fairy?
 
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Hyper-Go-ons said:
It all fun and games when a Tera Ground Kommo-o shows up and ruins Thundurus-Therian straight up, with being Immune to Weather Ball and Focus Blast thanks to Bulletproof, if it runs Water type Tera Blast instead, it is able to OHKO Tera Ground Kommo-o. Grass Knot 2HKOes it instead, Tera Ground Kommo-o takes about 41.9 - 49.4% from Grass Knot at +1 SpD (Pressuming this is the Clangorous Soul set), Thundurus-Therian gets destroyed by a Tera Normal boosted Boomburst at +1 SpA
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Can you show me one game above 1200 in OU where Tera Ground Kommo-O encounters a Thundurus, let alone one with Tera Blast Water?

With all due respect — and I’m starting to doubt much is due, a lot of people play the tier regularly at progressing levels and offer real metagame insight. Your posts seem to be unrelated tidbits of tangential information that doesn’t involve the metagame whatsoever.
 
TPP said:
I'm busy but I'll try to make a post later today. I haven't read the previous pages but will catch up soon.

In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams? I have no clue but move on from whatever the past few pages were and try and discuss this for now.

Have a nice day
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The easiest prediction I can make is that the meta during OLT will be about countering the playstyle of hax. What is the hax playstyle you say? Using Pokemon with RNG odds to gain favor in a battle. Stuff like body proc abilities like static, or glare, and thunder wave will run rampant along with flinch spam such as dark pulse and Iron Head. How do I know this? Because me and several other ladder players are planning to spam hax teams at top ladder during OLT. A few have already seen some testing I've been doing and have already begun to complain and keep in mind im doing 5 games a day, just light testing. People will begin to use Garganacl, Ting-Lu, Misty surge gweezing, gholdengo, infiltrator Dragapult on every team because they need to manage tave darkrai, serperior, twave dragapult, moltres, etc.

But I and the other secret 9 won't go down without a fight, we'll continue to innovate hax with freeze spam (or serene freeze) most likely, or different ways like stun spore sinsitcha which threatens mons like Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu aka the usual anti hax mons. I am kinda wondering about air slash spam as well but that seems a bit more tricky to build. In the meantime, here's the hax team I brought to #2 2016 on the ladder as of recent. SPAM THIS TEAM PLEASE DURING OLT. https://pokepast.es/aba44de4efad14b3 feel free to change the Hatterene that slot is eh, or anything else if u want, the more variations the more we can trip up the OLT players.

I highly suggest high ladder players who use my #2 hax team to make their own variations to this team!!

Why are you haxing OLT?: Because I want people who'd usually make it in, not, and I want people who would have otherwise not make it in, make it in. I wanna see some different names in the playoffs, some different results in the cycle, and what better way than to make the game in nobody's hands : )

here are some funny screenshots ive gotten btw lol
hes so pissed bro.png

lol that ould be me.png

zama iron head flinch hax prevails yet again.png

<3 keep on haxing, I'll probably make a detailed long thread for hax and I'll be posting an updated hax box for the new meta sooon!!

btw to the OLT participants, the hax Groupchat of anon top ladder players, will be spamming 5 games+ at once in the final hours of OLT so I wouldn't count on only playing when we're not online... GOOD LUCK!

EDIT: btw ough xuxa is a shared alt, if u see a team thats not hax its not me playing on it lol
 
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Ehmcee said:
Do you live in an alternate dimension where people use Kommo-o
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Based on old posts like Tera Water Clodsire against Kilowattrel from Pre-DLC Meta, it's Russian Roulette whether these posts land on something relevant to the Meta, much less the topic at hand.

Shaymin Sky said:
The easiest prediction I can make is that the meta during OLT will be about countering the playstyle of hax. What is the hax playstyle you say? Using Pokemon with RNG odds to gain favor in a battle. Stuff like body proc abilities like static, or glare, and thunder wave will run rampant along with flinch spam such as dark pulse and Iron Head. How do I know this? Because me and several other ladder players are planning to spam hax teams at top ladder during OLT. A few have already seen some testing I've been doing and have already begun to complain and keep in mind im doing 5 games a day, just light testing. People will begin to use Garganacl, Ting-Lu, Misty surge gweezing, gholdengo, infiltrator Dragapult on every team because they need to manage tave darkrai, serperior, twave dragapult, moltres, etc.

But I and the other secret 9 won't go down without a fight, we'll continue to innovate hax with freeze spam (or serene freeze) most likely, or different ways like stun spore sinsitcha which threatens mons like Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu aka the usual anti hax mons. I am kinda wondering about air slash spam as well but that seems a bit more tricky to build. In the meantime, here's the hax team I brought to #2 2016 on the ladder as of recent. SPAM THIS TEAM PLEASE DURING OLT. https://pokepast.es/aba44de4efad14b3 feel free to change the Hatterene that slot is eh, or anything else if u want, the more variations the more we can trip up the OLT players.

I highly suggest high ladder players who use my #2 hax team to make their own variations to this team!!

Why are you haxing OLT?: Because I want people who'd usually make it in, not, and I want people who would have otherwise not make it in, make it in. I wanna see some different names in the playoffs, some different results in the cycle, and what better way than to make the game in nobody's hands : )

here are some funny screenshots ive gotten btw lol
View attachment 649240
View attachment 649241
View attachment 649243
<3 keep on haxing, I'll probably make a detailed long thread for hax and I'll be posting an updated hax box for the new meta sooon!!

btw to the OLT participants, the hax Groupchat of anon top ladder players, will be spamming 5 games+ at once in the final hours of OLT so I wouldn't count on only playing when we're not online... GOOD LUCK!

EDIT: btw ough xuxa is a shared alt, if u see a team thats not hax its not me playing on it lol
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Teams like this are why I can't completely write off people who argue "any RNG is uncompetitive," and why as much as I hate him I can't actually vote ban on Gholdengo.
 
Tio Chico said:
Pages and pages of nonsense wanting to unban things like Lugia and Palafin, but when someone talks about Shaymin-Sky they want to throw stones immediately. (Not that they are wrong, just incoherent.)
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Not that incoherent. While it's easy to lump all 3 as "unviable Ubers," the existence of Ubers UU allows us to finally have a good measuring point for *how* much of an unviable Uber something is. The same tier where the powerlevel is high enough for Lugia to be completely unviable had to ban Shaymin-Sky (it's Ubers UUBL, not Ubers by usage). Palafin is somewhere in between those two. But if "Unban Lugia" is 5/10 ridiculous take, then Shaymin-Sky is a 9/10 ridiculous take. It got banned from a tier that is bing chilling with a ton of box legends and Hans Niemann:chi-yu:
 
somebodyuknow2 said:
Not that incoherent. While it's easy to lump all 3 as "unviable Ubers," the existence of Ubers UU allows us to finally have a good measuring point for *how* much of an unviable Uber something is. The same tier where the powerlevel is high enough for Lugia to be completely unviable had to ban Shaymin-Sky (it's Ubers UUBL, not Ubers by usage). Palafin is somewhere in between those two. But if "Unban Lugia" is 5/10 ridiculous take, then Shaymin-Sky is a 9/10 ridiculous take. It got banned from a tier that is bing chilling with a ton of box legends and Hans Niemann:chi-yu:
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why is chi-yu hans niemann lol

Shaymin-Sky is probably my fav mon, but I don't want to see anyone ever using Shaymin-Sky please for the love of god
 
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