NOC Working Title Mafia (Game Thread) [Mafia Wins]

saberslasher11 said:
How

How Does it clear? I don't get how
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I have 0 reason to fakeclaim this early. Say someone counterclaimed. We lynch them. They flip town. I get lynched the next day. It's a very bad trade for mafia to fakeclaim and if im fake the real tracker essentially just trades himself with a mafia and considering backups exist that's a bad trade.
 
Lechen said:
why sr alice/dbd? Agree with most of the rest, would put saber around flandrs and pulsar around jalmont
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alice/redless ping me somewhat as a pair actually. #82 from redless does seem awkward in that nobody was really talking about a no vote & the fixation on the ww this early is awkward, but alice noting this and calling it out also reads as paired with redless here, not towny.

dbd is just a gut check read here.

and nah i gotta disagree on saber -- saber has already came in with probably the highest level thought in the game so far (until i arrived of course) with the des slip read. that shows me that he is actively reading and solving. I think that puts him at a level above flandrs who is essentially null at this stage.

on pulsar -- i'm really not sure on that but after scumming against as well as spectating pulsar and seeing how disorganized she is as town, i actually pretty strongly tl pulsar for coming out and rejecting your claim in a questionable af way. its on brand for her. if you were scum, on the other hand, im always yeeting you both for sure.
 
M2H said:
alice/redless ping me somewhat as a pair actually. #82 from redless does seem awkward in that nobody was really talking about a no vote & the fixation on the ww this early is awkward, but alice noting this and calling it out also reads as paired with redless here, not towny.

dbd is just a gut check read here.

and nah i gotta disagree on saber -- saber has already came in with probably the highest level thought in the game so far (until i arrived of course) with the des slip read. that shows me that he is actively reading and solving. I think that puts him at a level above flandrs who is essentially null at this stage.

on pulsar -- i'm really not sure on that but after scumming against as well as spectating pulsar and seeing how disorganized she is as town, i actually pretty strongly tl pulsar for coming out and rejecting your claim in a questionable af way. its on brand for her. if you were scum, on the other hand, im always yeeting you both for sure.
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I noticed the redless post as well being awkward but ic ur reasoning.

Our opinions differ on pulsar ig, but she doesn't read coached either

again i have 0 reason to fakeclaim but w/e
 
Lechen said:
I noticed the redless post as well being awkward but ic ur reasoning.

Our opinions differ on pulsar ig, but she doesn't read coached either

again i have 0 reason to fakeclaim but w/e
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this is why i have you and pulsar as town and am not trying to yeet you both !

but yes if somebody was going to fakeclaim here, it would probably be JK > tracker.
 
M2H said:
alice/redless ping me somewhat as a pair actually. #82 from redless does seem awkward in that nobody was really talking about a no vote & the fixation on the ww this early is awkward, but alice noting this and calling it out also reads as paired with redless here, not towny.
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If you agree with Alice why do you think her calling that out is scummy?
 
HydrogenHydreigon said:
If you agree with Alice why do you think her calling that out is scummy?
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I could very easily see all four of the people that Alice defended in p#154 being town (Lechen, HyHy, Des, and Genisu), but in the post I get the sense that Alice was trying to avoid signalling TMI. The Genisu read is authoritative and not hedgey, but the HyHy and Des defense do read like Alice was afraid of signalling TMI on them. This is interesting to me because Alice is expressing a lot of real confidence in each of those reads but the signaled confidence is graduated by how acceptable it would be to be confident on them: Lechen > Genisu > HyHy > Des

I explicitly disagree, on the other hand, with p#154 and think this is where maf!Alice could be supporting an incorrect view to sow some chaos.

Then seeing p#154 and how strongly I disagree with that read, it makes me question the Redless read more. If the way Alice is viewing the game leads her to see the game radically different on pulsar, why would that also have them see the game the same way on Redless while coming with a town perspective? That's immediately makes me suspicious of Alice, for the mix of statements that feel objectively true (the four defended players, redless scummy) and very likely false (pulsar scummy).

Let me know if that makes sense.
 
Regardless of truth we cannot vote a PR claim day 1 so the lechen discourse doesn't really matter until we've got a result to think about or a counterclaim or something

I have been schooled since my last noc on why you always vote day 1 so rest assured I am no longer on the no vote train. Though I think with this setup having very few roles idk if old me would've pushed that or not lol

I disagree with redless on the PR thing - the game isn't completely over if a PR dies, sure, but the mafia's big goal is going to be eliminate the two prs and each claim is potentially putting them 1/4 of the way there. In this setup town has very little protection/counterplay to kills so it's pretty risky to claim. Though I guess the one claim is ok since we do have jailkeeper but it basically creates a wifom situation and/or limits the jailkeeper's I potential to disrupt kills towards strategic threats vs prs
 
M2H said:
I could very easily see all four of the people that Alice defended in p#154 being town (Lechen, HyHy, Des, and Genisu), but in the post I get the sense that Alice was trying to avoid signalling TMI. The Genisu read is authoritative and not hedgey, but the HyHy and Des defense do read like Alice was afraid of signalling TMI on them. This is interesting to me because Alice is expressing a lot of real confidence in each of those reads but the signaled confidence is graduated by how acceptable it would be to be confident on them: Lechen > Genisu > HyHy > Des
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I just like to write the part I'm confident first honestly. People are pushing too much on des but I don't townread her. I'm null at this moment. It would be Lechen and Genisu Townread, HH Townlean and Des null.
M2H said:
I explicitly disagree, on the other hand, with p#154 and think this is where maf!Alice could be supporting an incorrect view to sow some chaos.

Then seeing p#154 and how strongly I disagree with that read, it makes me question the Redless read more. If the way Alice is viewing the game leads her to see the game radically different on pulsar, why would that also have them see the game the same way on Redless while coming with a town perspective? That's immediately makes me suspicious of Alice, for the mix of statements that feel objectively true (the four defended players, redless scummy) and very likely false (pulsar scummy).
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You mean 158 and 160?

I'm pretty sure you can disagree with someone on certain things but agree on others.
 
Alice Kazumi said:
I just like to write the part I'm confident first honestly. People are pushing too much on des but I don't townread her. I'm null at this moment. It would be Lechen and Genisu Townread, HH Townlean and Des null.


You mean 158 and 160?

I'm pretty sure you can disagree with someone on certain things but agree on others.
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Normally, a mind-meld is something you would give somebody town cred for, since it would be assumed that if two people express the same organic thought process, they would both be town. But in this case, I don't think we are actually approaching the game from a mindmeldy perspective. Ultimately you get a neutral for your town reads as that post is fairly mild, minus for the pulsar read, plus for the Redless read. But I could also very easily see you as paired with Redless.
 
joey said:
Regardless of truth we cannot vote a PR claim day 1 so the lechen discourse doesn't really matter until we've got a result to think about or a counterclaim or something
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Well I'd say he is >90% town so it would be crazy to vote him any time soon. :wo:

joey said:
I disagree with redless on the PR thing - the game isn't completely over if a PR dies, sure, but the mafia's big goal is going to be eliminate the two prs and each claim is potentially putting them 1/4 of the way there. In this setup town has very little protection/counterplay to kills so it's pretty risky to claim. Though I guess the one claim is ok since we do have jailkeeper but it basically creates a wifom situation and/or limits the jailkeeper's I potential to disrupt kills towards strategic threats vs prs
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Yeah I agree with this, the roles we have aren't even that strong honestly and we have backups.
 
M2H said:
Normally, a mind-meld is something you would give somebody town cred for, since it would be assumed that if two people express the same organic thought process, they would both be town. But in this case, I don't think we are actually approaching the game from a mindmeldy perspective. Ultimately you get a neutral for your town reads as that post is fairly mild, minus for the pulsar read, plus for the Redless read. But I could also very easily see you as paired with Redless.
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I could also see you paired with pulsar because you used the same strategy than me to defend her when I was scum in Tos in Lechen's pms so here we are :boi:

Last time I mind-meld with someone it was with tommy in jalmont and genisu game and we all know how that ended.
 
Alice Kazumi said:
I could also see you paired with pulsar because you used the same strategy than me to defend her when I was scum in Tos in Lechen's pms so here we are :boi:

Last time I mind-meld with someone it was with tommy in jalmont and genisu game and we all know how that ended.
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I'm gonna need you to explain this in other words O_O I cannot understand what you're saying at all
 
I think Alice’s reaction posts to M2H are not very good
186 is fine I guess, backtracking on the supposed confidence and trying to appear more hedgy is eh imo but it’s fine
189 is just rly weird?? It reads like trying to discredit M2h by any means necessary which I don’t like and just. Pulling whatever
 
HydrogenHydreigon said:
I think Alice’s reaction posts to M2H are not very good
186 is fine I guess, backtracking on the supposed confidence and trying to appear more hedgy is eh imo but it’s fine
189 is just rly weird?? It reads like trying to discredit M2h by any means necessary which I don’t like and just. Pulling whatever
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eh i feel like 186 is natural but 189 is a bit weird, no idea what it's trying to say and my good vibes on alice are dropping... putting her at around jalmont level probably
 
i see alice/des pair maybe, alice/redless also seems plausible. m2h/pulsar exists but ehhh

alice/m2h interaction reads T/S could be S/S but alice is a bit grasping at straws atm and i don't think M2H. def could be T/T though

atm i feel like a des flip gives us a lot of info, if she flips wolf then she dies and we kills wolf, if she flips mafia we can probably deduce the others via angleshooting based on tz cuz her actions were very uncoached. ofc if she flips town we lose a member of town but i feel like she is pretty scummy so i think this is a good vote

Vote des121
 
Hey, hello everyone. Yesterday, I didn't see that the game had started. I just roughly read everything.

I trust Lechen for now, just like everyone else.

I am in favor of a Day 1 lynch. In my first NOC, I thought it was best to abstain, and I thought I was right because we voted for an innocent. But the experienced players and the host themselves explained in the post-game that it's always better to vote for someone on Day 1.

Des, as far as I understand, is a bit new. I would say we should give her a chance to get past Day 1 at least.

Alice defending Des is not unusual, I don't know why Lechen is surprised. I don't think it's a case of pocketing, she just wants to give her a bit of a chance because she's new. It was the same in the previous mafia game.
 
ElectricityCat said:
Hey, hello everyone. Yesterday, I didn't see that the game had started. I just roughly read everything.

I trust Lechen for now, just like everyone else.

I am in favor of a Day 1 lynch. In my first NOC, I thought it was best to abstain, and I thought I was right because we voted for an innocent. But the experienced players and the host themselves explained in the post-game that it's always better to vote for someone on Day 1.

Des, as far as I understand, is a bit new. I would say we should give her a chance to get past Day 1 at least.

Alice defending Des is not unusual, I don't know why Lechen is surprised. I don't think it's a case of pocketing, she just wants to give her a bit of a chance because she's new. It was the same in the previous mafia game.
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This isn't exactly true. Alice isn't arguing that we should spare Des because they are new but rather because Alice thinks the "scum slip" is bullshit (which I agree with fwiw)
 
M2H said:
This isn't exactly true. Alice isn't arguing that we should spare Des because they are new but rather because Alice thinks the "scum slip" is bullshit (which I agree with fwiw)
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Well, that's the argument she used. but I think she defends her mainly because des is new. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the feeling I get.

I agree as well, it's a very bad reason to vote for Des, but at least it's cool to add a bit of spice to Day 1.
 
Alice Kazumi said:
I could also see you paired with pulsar because you used the same strategy than me to defend her when I was scum in Tos in Lechen's pms so here we are :boi:

Last time I mind-meld with someone it was with tommy in jalmont and genisu game and we all know how that ended.
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ElectricityCat I was talking abt this, her defense against m2h's accusations are kinda awkward but I could def be wrong

ElectricityCat said:
Well, that's the argument she used. but I think she defends her mainly because des is new. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the feeling I get.

I agree as well, it's a very bad reason to vote for Des, but at least it's cool to add a bit of spice to Day 1.
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I think the lynching des is the right play, her flipping would be extremely helpful in determining the alignments of several other players. I'm pretty new myself, and I really don't want to lynch her, but i feel like this is a good lynch target and not only for the scumslip saber pointed out
 
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