Metagame Pokemoves!

:sv/raging bolt:
Raging Bolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 64 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderclap
- Latios
- Thunderbolt

Raging Bolt now gets Draco Meteor with no drawbacks plus an immunity to Spikes and Ground-type attacks with Latios. Tera Poison blocks Toxic and allows Raging Bolt to setup on Great Tusk and Gliscor forever. This set looks terrifying to me.
 
Can the council ban Damp Rock and Heat Rock? The lack of priority being buffed by Pokemoves means that there is little counterplay to weather teams by other offensive playstyles. Barraskewda can use no drawback Wave Crashes, Basculegion-F can use 145 BP Shadow Balls, Leafeon can use 130 BP non-recoil Flare Blitzes, Scovillain can use no drawback Overheats, etc.

Barraskewda can also use Bruxish and become absolutely unstoppable.
 
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I think a good starting point for tiering is to get rid of some of the high BP moves, starting with stuff that goes over 120 BP, it would be a big number of restrictions so better have it sorted before the ladder looks like a mistake, then depending on how things go may slowly experiment with allowing stronger moves for the weakest types if they don't also pass a great ability, but 120 should be a fine start to give an identity to the tier and may just focus in the abusers from there.
This is going to be an offensive format like how Linked was, and that's fine, some HO tools will most likely need to be banned down the line, but I believe this can be an interesting offensive meta. This is the meta where everyone get to use a made up dynamax move, that's interesting and different from what other formats offer at the least.
 
KaenSoul said:
I think a good starting point for tiering is to get rid of some of the high BP moves, starting with stuff that goes over 120 BP, it would be a big number of restrictions so better have it sorted before the ladder looks like a mistake, then depending on how things go may slowly experiment with allowing stronger moves for the weakest types if they don't also pass a great ability, but 120 should be a fine start to give an identity to the tier and may just focus in the abusers from there.
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Won't this lose uniqueness in the base power values between different types? Dark, Fire, Water, Ground, Rock, Fairy, Fighting, Grass, Electric, Normal, Steel, Ice, Ghost, Dragon, and Flying all get physical moves between 115-120 BP (15/18 types), and Water, Grass, Dragon, Dark, Electric, Steel, Fire, Bug, Fighting, Ghost, Fire, Psychic, Fairy, Poison all get special moves between 110-120 BP (14/18 types).
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Won't this lose uniqueness in the base power values between different types? Dark, Fire, Water, Ground, Rock, Fairy, Fighting, Grass, Electric, Normal, Steel, Ice, Ghost, Dragon, and Flying all get physical moves between 115-120 BP (15/18 types), and Water, Grass, Dragon, Dark, Electric, Steel, Fire, Bug, Fighting, Ghost, Fire, Psychic, Fairy, Poison all get special moves between 110-120 BP (14/18 types).
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Eh, it doesnt need to be exactly 120, stuff at around 121-125 shouldnt make much of a difference, but anything higher than that will just cause balancing problems and require more actual bans rather than restrictions. Eventually it should become easier to tier individually the moves and pokemon, but while keeping things offensive is fine, first we need to find a powerlevel that feels acceptable to play with.
 
KaenSoul said:
Eh, it doesnt need to be exactly 120, stuff at around 121-125 shouldnt make much of a difference, but anything higher than that will just cause balancing problems and require more actual bans rather than restrictions. Eventually it should become easier to tier individually the moves and pokemon, but while keeping things offensive is fine, first we need to find a powerlevel that feels acceptable to play with.
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Alright, but if this change is implemented, the council should please not restrict Bug or Normal.

you shall not take away my Ambipom Slaking nor my Yanmega Vikavolt
 
Clas said:
Cool format with potential room for really unique exploration, but a major suggestion that should overall improve the OM while it's in the theory stage: Abilities should be kept after switching, akin to Shared Power, AAA etc. With how the current format works, HO is the one that benefits most without leaving any room for any balanced or bulky playstyles. Not just this, but you're currently more suggested to use high BP moves rather than play into abilities, which this change would do while still enabling high BP Pokemoves like Chandelure, Hoopa, and Haxorus.
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I'll give my personal opinion on this change: I do not support keeping abilities after switching. If you keep your abilities after switching, this meta starts smelling a lot like PokeAAA (Pokebilities + AAA) or Multibility with a time delay on each mon.
 
KaenSoul said:
I think a good starting point for tiering is to get rid of some of the high BP moves, starting with stuff that goes over 120 BP
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Agreed that high BP moves are just going to be silly, but maybe a formula to bring higher moves in line would work better - either a flat subtraction or something similar to the one scaled uses, so that the absolute strongest move available (Hoopa) comes down from 150 to 125 or 120. I know this is kind of "complex" but it should bring the power level of the format down a bit while maintaining identity by keeping stronger moves comparitavrly stronger to the rest of the cast.
 
Can Darkrai use Pokémon Darkrai?
- If you can, what happens if Ogerpon pokemove into Oger-H(-Tera)?
What happens if you got duplicate ability (Will it activate again like Intimidate)
Can you pokemove a mega mon?
 
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drampa's grandpa said:
Whats gonna be uncompetitive:

:ss/magnezone::ss/golem-alola:
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Reveal clause means that you will know when the pokemon switches in that it has a magnet pull ability, so this isn't as immediately broken. Being able to remove a key steel type in your opponent is nothing to scoff at however and should be kept an eye on - it isnt obviously broken id argue so shouldn't be banned now but watchlisted
 
Some sets I think are cool.

:SV/Dragonite: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- flamigo :flamigo:
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
A nice 115 base flying STAB that also gives scrappy for Espeed

:SV/Cinderace: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- landorustherian :landorus_therian:
- Court Change
- U-turn
cinderace/meows def have a lot of potential here, libero lets them get stab on any pokemove

:SV/Hatterene: (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- enamorus :enamorus:
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire
- Trick Room
With how offensive the meta is going to be, having a 1 slot TR like this could be a good anti offense measure
 
BoingK said:
:xy/zapdos-galar: @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Bulk Up
- Grafaiai (Poison, Physical, Base 95, Unburden)
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BTW pretty sure this wouldnt work on a gterrain because unburden doubles speed on held item loss, when you use the Pokemove, the item has already been lost.
 
Thinking about

:SV/Forretress: leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Ceruledge :ceruledge:
- Flamigo :flamigo:
- Body Press

:SV/Crawdaunt: black glasses
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Avalugg- Hisui :avalugg_hisui:
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation

Would love the test these out under trick room. I'm looking at using the mechanic for this om in a defensive way hence the Forretress set and possibly a mon like Gyarados.
 
finding tons and tons of monstrous HO ideas, meta seems very unbalanced
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glastrier
- no other move matters lul

145 BP Phys Ice move that gives Moxie is good enough on its' own, but putting that on Weavile is... ew gross

Rillaboom @ Booster Energy
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Leaves
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

130 BP grass move that boosts attack after use, allowing even stronger 130 BP grass moves or Gglide or even just strong Knocks/Low Kicks.

also, special attackers are strong too

Greninja @ Booster Energy
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Walking Wake
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

A pokemon that gets a massive speed boost, and a massive stats boost thanks to battle bond!

throw a move like Glastrier (145 BP Ice Phys adds moxie), Kingambit (135 BP Dark Phys, adds Supreme Overlord), Porygon-Z (135 BP normal Special, adds Adaptability), Yanmega (116 BP bug special, tinted lens), etc, all kinda break when you change typing to that mon. A cinderace spamming Glastrier, or a Greninja spamming Porygon-Z, or a Meowscarada spamming 120 BP Lycanroc-Dusk all seem like HO is gonna break the game.

Lack of Defensive Answers

this meta has huge offensive powerhouses and far far too many to ban. I have a fear that any playstyle that doesn't revolve around HO or setup and sweep (sometimes in one button like aformentioned weavile set) will not be viable.
 
I'm not sure how viable they will be, but :rhyperior: :cryogonal: :ogerpon-wellspring: have an interesting niche as pokemoves: they each grant you immunity to a type while hitting STAB users of that type supereffectively.
 
Iron Boulder
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
- Mighty Cleave
- Sacred Sword
- Gallade
- Whatever you want
Btw:
Pokemove Latios Archaludon?
Idk what pokemove should Terapagos use
Not sure about Landorus, it might rather not use pokemove
Idk about Bloodmoon and Bax
 
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I guess I need to make something clear after so many suggestions here, as the format just got approved there should be no reason to change anything from the premise unless there is some kind of coding issues preventing something from working the desire way.
If after getting a ladder it underperforms or has some other serious problem we could try to find ways to fix whatever problem it may have, but at the time there is no need to be thinking on ways to change how power is calculated or how added abilities should work.
For now, just have fun theorymoning how the format may play and cool sets you could use.
 
are pokemoves contact? sound? sharp? etc.

things like tough claws, soundproof, bulletproof, etc may be worthwhile if pokemoves HAD properties.

also I think we should realistically restrict (e.g, can't use the pokemove, but can use the mon) anything above 140 BP (look at how strong boomburst, now imagine every pokemon has boomburst of any category and of most types, and frequently is offensive/speed boost to boot.
 
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