OH LMFAOOOOOO sorry I have the 'tism
Zapkinglu is a stupid argument yeah, every other breaker in the tier own that core lmao
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
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Zapkinglu is a stupid argument yeah, every other breaker in the tier own that core lmao
Until my Fairy Hydrapple and Mystery Blaziken Set farm you
Hydrapple is my favourite breaker by far. He’s just a bulky and strong lil guy that goes all-out on birds and EPs the Roost (when will people learn you need to offensively check this guy?).
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With a suspect on the horizon, I wanna make post about our next candidate, Gliscor since I don't know if I will be able participate or even be motivated enough to in the next suspect(I am still on hiatus). Gliscor has ample of counterplay. This is not a mon that should be suspected nor something that is banworthy. I will be mainly talking about the SD set but the passive hazard stack set will also get a mention. Gliscor punishes unorthodox team compositions but it is by no means uncounterable even if we are speaking long term nor oppressive against the general meta.
Here are all its weaknesses
Low initial power
It is extremely weak. Uninvested EQ don't even 2HKO bulky Gambit pre-Tera(which means Gambit beats it 1vs1 with some fallen) and needs to setup to +4 to even 2hKO a HP invested Great Tusk. That+ it's middling speed even invested means that it's basically dead weight against A LOT of offensive structures that can brute force Gliscor with hard hitters like Kyurem, Walking Wake for sun, or any choiced user or setup in it's face with stuff like Zama, Tusk or even Gambit if you are willing to tera. Fatter teams can also take advantage of it. Generally against fatter structures it will first setup or knock and you have plenty of answers for this. Corv is an excellent switch-in, taking nothing even from +6 attacks and serving as a great pivot to get in some of your more offensive mons to threaten Glis. Sub Zama beats it 1vs1 even pre-tera, Weavile too, Great Tusk with both CC and Ice Spinner cover multiple Gliscor options like Tera Normal, Ogerpon-W shits on most teams that Gliscor finds itself into, Darkrai shits on most Glscors+ their teams too ect.... Heck even a Glowking can take an unboosted EQ and Ice Beam it because it is that fucking weak.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2229118905-igryj0ct7rw2gailtucm511yqe3xmh4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-798279?p2
You can also also try to damage it and then whirlwind/roar it out so even if it does heal some HP it wont outheal your damage and by doing this over and over you can eventually wear it down. Mons like Moltres or Ting Lu take nothing from Glis they can stay in a couple of turns, damage it and then whirlwind it out. . Dozo also shuts down any Gliscor attempt to sweep a stall team. I know you are gonna go "but they don't like being knocked." If you let the opponent get up hazards and your key mon getting knocked, that means you fucked up. BADLY.
Dead Turns
Gliscor will have a lot of turn where it will have to protect or setup something. You can easily, EASILY take advantage of that. Taunt can prevent setup. Encore mons can lock Gliscor into something very undesirable. Imagine your Glis using protect while Iron Valiant comes in, encores you and sets up in your face. Imagine SDing while the opponent takes advantage of that and gets in scary breakers like Kyurem or Oger that force you out and can decimate entire teams. Gliscor requires you make the RIGHT plays, otherwise it will be huge momentum sink. It's very vulnerable to aggressive plays. And if you mispredict the Gliscor and you get toxic'd or something, I am sorry to say but that means the opponent outplayed you, not that Glis is broken.
The Tera Paradox
Glis is often cited to be able to bypass it's checks with Tera and I am like "How is that special from anything here in this tier?" How is that different from Kyurem, Zama, Bolt, Gambit, *insert offensive mon xyz. And no, he doesn't do it on a "grander scale". Unlike the others, Gliscor will always be stuck in it's middling speed unlike others that have a naturally high speed tier, ability to boost speed or priority while also sporting higher initial power. Gliscor at best will punch a hole but it will never ever win outright for gaining momentum unlike shit like Kyurem, a mon that can reliably wallbreak and also win games with the right turn(the fact that you can do both means it puts a huge strain on the builder and on your plays) but the community deemed this shit fine. Forcing out a Tera also means Glis will be extremely vulnerable to hazard stack both offensive and bulky variants being probably the nr. 1 playstyle right now(and most annoying). Also it is extremely easy to predict it's tera type.
SD variants are either Tera Normal, Dark or Ghost. Passive variants are either water, steel, ghost non that are problematic. Any other Tera doesn't really help it. A lot more predictable then stuff like Gambit or Dragonite or Bolt, or Zama or Kyurem or........
How to beat this mon with fat teams
Fat teams like stall have Sticky Barb Clef that can negate it's recovery and make any chip stick(just knock them first). Garg can also do that with salt cure and it is honestly not taking much from unboosted EQs anyway(it also has tera). The metal birds and Moltres serve as an excellent buffer zone to get in your more offensive mons. Taunt lando can also work on non ice fang variants. Mola is taking nothing from any of Glis attacks and can flip in to get a more offensive presence like a choiced mon like CS Valiant. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-796057
There is also the counterplay I have explained above ,attacking it and then phazing it out. Dozo also works on stall and some balance variants. Getting knocked should not be a problem. Balance teams should not focus on checking Gliscor long term. They should use their defensive answers as a buffer zone to get in their more offensively threatning mons and make progress. Stall teams have enough longevity to withstand Gliscors assault and they should have a plan for Knock+hazard stack teams anyway otherwise they lose to way more things then just Gliscor.
4 movepool syndrom
We have always said this to defend versatile broken shit but it actually applies here. 2 of it's moveslots are occupied with Protect+SD but then what? If it runs Knock+Eq it loses to bulky flying types, Facade+knock HANDILY loses to Gambit, Garg and sometimes Bolt, EQ+facade lose to balloon Ghold. And unlike other broken shit, it cannot win games outright even with the right set(that is if the opponent has actually crafted a competent team) unlike mons like Kyurem since it has a middling speed and gets threatened by a lot of offensive threats. Also the same thing with EV investment. Do I go max speed to outpace Tusk, Lando,Bolt and tie Kyurem but also give up my ability to tank strong hits like Draco from Bolt as well? Or do I invest in bulk and accept mons like Dragonite outspeeding me? Do I invest in attack so I am not so passive unboosted?
"This mon cannot be walled long term. It can just switch out, outlast it's checks and come back later"
Yes and? It is a strong piece for teams with long term plans. Gliscor rewards good, consistent plays and a very strong tool for players that prefer long term strategies. It will only outlast them if you LET THEM. Go into the dead turn section of my post, you can take advantage of this. DONT BE IMPATIENT, ITS OKAY IF IT HEALS SOME HP BUT ALSO DONT BE AFRAID TO BE AGGRESSIVE. Also if I have an Ogerpon in for example, which Gliscor member actually wants to switch into this guy? Is the strategy here to slowly sack your team one by one?
Meta Solutions
Pre tera:
Great Tusk(Ice spinner), Dragonite(Ice spinner), Skarm, Zama(not on knock though+should be sub can also be ice fang), Ogerpon, Ting-Lu(ruinate and then whirlwind), strong choiced users, offensive water types like Wake, Meow, +bulky pivot like Mola, lando, Corv, Molt, Zap, Darkrai, Rilla, Kyurem, Gambit with tera, Samurott, Deoxys with IB, Primarina
Normal:
Zama(all variants) Lowkick Gambit, strong choiced mons like Wake or Valiant still work, physical Valiant, Corv, Skarm, CC Tusk, FB Darkrai, strong fighting types, Deoxys with PB and fighting move,
Ghost:
Dark types, Ghost types, Zama with crunch, Deoxys, bulky pivots still work ect... As you can see there is a lot of overlap
General if you don't have an outright answer: Damage it and then whirlwind/roar it out so even if it does heal some HP it wont outheal your damage and by doing this over and over you can eventually wear it down. Bulky pivots still works to get in a strong attacker like choiced mons or Ursaluna or sth.. Or build a better team. There are plenty of meta answers.
Other unorthodox solutions
Psychic Noise from the likes of Hatterence or Prim makes it so any chip WILL stay and Gliscor either lose the 1vs1 or switch out giving you the momentum.
Tera steel levitate mons like Hydreigon https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-800400
Rotom-W also works on non facade variants.(and offensive water types in general)
Bulky unaware setup mons like Unaware Clef setting up alongside it. Or a tera'd Skeledirge
G-weezing if played smart.
Ice beam T-tar( if not EQ)
Worry Seed Amoonguuse(okay I am reaching here, just wanted to throw out something funny.)
Keldeo beats regular and tera normal variants
Hazard variants have alot of overlap counterplay with the above solutions and are passive as hell. They are also very vulnerable to offensive sub mons like moon here, having the potential to decimate entire teams https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2202982529-zpkq42hydvo16zzsmredr9ztxcqvb6ipw
DO NOT BAN this mon. In a meta this offensive, this mon is a non-issue. It is only oppressive to badly structured teams or ppl who have a short temper cause "muh protect"(but are somehow okay with Kyurem doing the same?). Let the meta settle for now and give ppl time to identify the actual broken mons.
Here are all its weaknesses
Low initial power
It is extremely weak. Uninvested EQ don't even 2HKO bulky Gambit pre-Tera(which means Gambit beats it 1vs1 with some fallen) and needs to setup to +4 to even 2hKO a HP invested Great Tusk. That+ it's middling speed even invested means that it's basically dead weight against A LOT of offensive structures that can brute force Gliscor with hard hitters like Kyurem, Walking Wake for sun, or any choiced user or setup in it's face with stuff like Zama, Tusk or even Gambit if you are willing to tera. Fatter teams can also take advantage of it. Generally against fatter structures it will first setup or knock and you have plenty of answers for this. Corv is an excellent switch-in, taking nothing even from +6 attacks and serving as a great pivot to get in some of your more offensive mons to threaten Glis. Sub Zama beats it 1vs1 even pre-tera, Weavile too, Great Tusk with both CC and Ice Spinner cover multiple Gliscor options like Tera Normal, Ogerpon-W shits on most teams that Gliscor finds itself into, Darkrai shits on most Glscors+ their teams too ect.... Heck even a Glowking can take an unboosted EQ and Ice Beam it because it is that fucking weak.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2229118905-igryj0ct7rw2gailtucm511yqe3xmh4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-798279?p2
You can also also try to damage it and then whirlwind/roar it out so even if it does heal some HP it wont outheal your damage and by doing this over and over you can eventually wear it down. Mons like Moltres or Ting Lu take nothing from Glis they can stay in a couple of turns, damage it and then whirlwind it out. . Dozo also shuts down any Gliscor attempt to sweep a stall team. I know you are gonna go "but they don't like being knocked." If you let the opponent get up hazards and your key mon getting knocked, that means you fucked up. BADLY.
Dead Turns
Gliscor will have a lot of turn where it will have to protect or setup something. You can easily, EASILY take advantage of that. Taunt can prevent setup. Encore mons can lock Gliscor into something very undesirable. Imagine your Glis using protect while Iron Valiant comes in, encores you and sets up in your face. Imagine SDing while the opponent takes advantage of that and gets in scary breakers like Kyurem or Oger that force you out and can decimate entire teams. Gliscor requires you make the RIGHT plays, otherwise it will be huge momentum sink. It's very vulnerable to aggressive plays. And if you mispredict the Gliscor and you get toxic'd or something, I am sorry to say but that means the opponent outplayed you, not that Glis is broken.
The Tera Paradox
Glis is often cited to be able to bypass it's checks with Tera and I am like "How is that special from anything here in this tier?" How is that different from Kyurem, Zama, Bolt, Gambit, *insert offensive mon xyz. And no, he doesn't do it on a "grander scale". Unlike the others, Gliscor will always be stuck in it's middling speed unlike others that have a naturally high speed tier, ability to boost speed or priority while also sporting higher initial power. Gliscor at best will punch a hole but it will never ever win outright for gaining momentum unlike shit like Kyurem, a mon that can reliably wallbreak and also win games with the right turn(the fact that you can do both means it puts a huge strain on the builder and on your plays) but the community deemed this shit fine. Forcing out a Tera also means Glis will be extremely vulnerable to hazard stack both offensive and bulky variants being probably the nr. 1 playstyle right now(and most annoying). Also it is extremely easy to predict it's tera type.
SD variants are either Tera Normal, Dark or Ghost. Passive variants are either water, steel, ghost non that are problematic. Any other Tera doesn't really help it. A lot more predictable then stuff like Gambit or Dragonite or Bolt, or Zama or Kyurem or........
How to beat this mon with fat teams
Fat teams like stall have Sticky Barb Clef that can negate it's recovery and make any chip stick(just knock them first). Garg can also do that with salt cure and it is honestly not taking much from unboosted EQs anyway(it also has tera). The metal birds and Moltres serve as an excellent buffer zone to get in your more offensive mons. Taunt lando can also work on non ice fang variants. Mola is taking nothing from any of Glis attacks and can flip in to get a more offensive presence like a choiced mon like CS Valiant. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-796057
There is also the counterplay I have explained above ,attacking it and then phazing it out. Dozo also works on stall and some balance variants. Getting knocked should not be a problem. Balance teams should not focus on checking Gliscor long term. They should use their defensive answers as a buffer zone to get in their more offensively threatning mons and make progress. Stall teams have enough longevity to withstand Gliscors assault and they should have a plan for Knock+hazard stack teams anyway otherwise they lose to way more things then just Gliscor.
4 movepool syndrom
We have always said this to defend versatile broken shit but it actually applies here. 2 of it's moveslots are occupied with Protect+SD but then what? If it runs Knock+Eq it loses to bulky flying types, Facade+knock HANDILY loses to Gambit, Garg and sometimes Bolt, EQ+facade lose to balloon Ghold. And unlike other broken shit, it cannot win games outright even with the right set(that is if the opponent has actually crafted a competent team) unlike mons like Kyurem since it has a middling speed and gets threatened by a lot of offensive threats. Also the same thing with EV investment. Do I go max speed to outpace Tusk, Lando,Bolt and tie Kyurem but also give up my ability to tank strong hits like Draco from Bolt as well? Or do I invest in bulk and accept mons like Dragonite outspeeding me? Do I invest in attack so I am not so passive unboosted?
"This mon cannot be walled long term. It can just switch out, outlast it's checks and come back later"
Yes and? It is a strong piece for teams with long term plans. Gliscor rewards good, consistent plays and a very strong tool for players that prefer long term strategies. It will only outlast them if you LET THEM. Go into the dead turn section of my post, you can take advantage of this. DONT BE IMPATIENT, ITS OKAY IF IT HEALS SOME HP BUT ALSO DONT BE AFRAID TO BE AGGRESSIVE. Also if I have an Ogerpon in for example, which Gliscor member actually wants to switch into this guy? Is the strategy here to slowly sack your team one by one?
Meta Solutions
Pre tera:
Great Tusk(Ice spinner), Dragonite(Ice spinner), Skarm, Zama(not on knock though+should be sub can also be ice fang), Ogerpon, Ting-Lu(ruinate and then whirlwind), strong choiced users, offensive water types like Wake, Meow, +bulky pivot like Mola, lando, Corv, Molt, Zap, Darkrai, Rilla, Kyurem, Gambit with tera, Samurott, Deoxys with IB, Primarina
Normal:
Zama(all variants) Lowkick Gambit, strong choiced mons like Wake or Valiant still work, physical Valiant, Corv, Skarm, CC Tusk, FB Darkrai, strong fighting types, Deoxys with PB and fighting move,
Ghost:
Dark types, Ghost types, Zama with crunch, Deoxys, bulky pivots still work ect... As you can see there is a lot of overlap
General if you don't have an outright answer: Damage it and then whirlwind/roar it out so even if it does heal some HP it wont outheal your damage and by doing this over and over you can eventually wear it down. Bulky pivots still works to get in a strong attacker like choiced mons or Ursaluna or sth.. Or build a better team. There are plenty of meta answers.
Other unorthodox solutions
Psychic Noise from the likes of Hatterence or Prim makes it so any chip WILL stay and Gliscor either lose the 1vs1 or switch out giving you the momentum.
Tera steel levitate mons like Hydreigon https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-800400
Rotom-W also works on non facade variants.(and offensive water types in general)
Bulky unaware setup mons like Unaware Clef setting up alongside it. Or a tera'd Skeledirge
G-weezing if played smart.
Ice beam T-tar( if not EQ)
Worry Seed Amoonguuse(okay I am reaching here, just wanted to throw out something funny.)
Keldeo beats regular and tera normal variants
Hazard variants have alot of overlap counterplay with the above solutions and are passive as hell. They are also very vulnerable to offensive sub mons like moon here, having the potential to decimate entire teams https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2202982529-zpkq42hydvo16zzsmredr9ztxcqvb6ipw
DO NOT BAN this mon. In a meta this offensive, this mon is a non-issue. It is only oppressive to badly structured teams or ppl who have a short temper cause "muh protect"(but are somehow okay with Kyurem doing the same?). Let the meta settle for now and give ppl time to identify the actual broken mons.
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The opposing Kyurem activated its Terastal Electric type! The opposing Kyurem used Tera Blast! Moltres fainted!
The opposing Kyurem used Stone Edge/Rock Slide! Moltres fainted!
And the worst part is that Kyurem doesn’t even need Tera or coverage tech to take down the core, those are just a few of its options. Specs Kyurem + its own Chilly Reception GKing allow it to hit the core with heavy Blizzards that they can’t consistently switch into since Boots GKing takes over 50 from that most of the time.
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
And it’s not like Blizzard is an unreliable option for Kyurem with Chilly Reception GKing being one of the most common pivots in the tier right now. AV GKing would probably compliment Roar Molt better as it can actually afford to eat some Blizzards while wearing Kyurem down better at the same time. Helps that with Flamethrower it can hit the Steels Kyurem is paired with better like Gambit and Gholdengo.
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There are practically no mons that can check every Kyurem set, but if I had to pick one, it would be Tera Fairy ID Press or Curse Garganacl.
Freeze immunity makes it a consistent answer to SubTect and provides a free setup opportunity.
Vs Specs, you can recover off Freeze Drys. You can EV to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Ice Beam.
Vs All out Attacker you do quite well and get off an easy Salt Cure.
Vs 3 Attacks DDance, you comfortably survive a +1 5 hits Icicle Spear and can Salt Cure to put a timer on the Kyurem sweep (helps to have some priority in the back to pick off Kyurem when low).
Vs Sub DDance, Iron Defense comes in handy to outboost and win the 1v1.
You have to commit a Tera but it’s not the worst investment if it means not losing to Kyurem.
Keep in mind that in general it’s more effective to stack multiple partial checks while keeping hazards up.
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If Kyurem Teras you can Tera back pretty safely.
And still be walled by Steels?
1.) Moltres does in fact have access to the terastalization mechanic, and while yes bolt beam physical kyurem is a real, viable set it also is far from the most common thing around
2.) edge/slide kyurem is extremely dogshit and blanks into every single check that kyurem has that isnt moltres, and even that gets beaten by moltres tera
3.) yes we all know the calcs on specs kyurem are crazy, but it is by far not the most problematic set (imo kyurem as a whole isnt even that bad for the tier)
specs is by far the most punished by rocks of all the sets since that guy needs to come in constantly and ace cant always keep rocks off + to actually break gking + alo fat cores you need to either be modest or tera ice + you are extremely susceptible to opposing teras into steel water or fire and your speed tier is not very good into any offensive structure
This is the best take I've ever seen on Gliscor, and what I've been trying to push for months at this point. Gliscor has so many answers to all of its sets on every playstyle, and while it can be difficult to build around, it's usually a building issue, not a Gliscor issue.
well for one, kyurem doesn't run rock slide or stone edge at all. tera blast electric is also never used outside of full-on DD sets and even then it's a choice between running tera electric, fire, or ground
for another, i never specified that the slowking had to be running a boots pivot set. as you yourself have already said, if it's AV then it already covers the kyurem matchup quite nicely when you have moltres in the back to check physical or mixed kyurem sets. and even then, turning your slowking into a water type to stay in and click toxic or thunder wave in front of specs kyurem is 100% a worthwhile trade. yes, giving your special wall a weakness to freeze-dry may sound counterintuitive, but a poisoned or paralyzed kyurem does not have many opportunities to do any serious damage
Gliscor heals 37% every time the opponent clicks a status move. Switch in on it, +12%, protect fail as they switch, 25%, actual protect, 37%.
There are also knock off and U-turn, the 2 most commonly clicked moves in OU. Gliscor will heal roughly 20% on them.
Considering that ice coverage rarely kills it you get plenty of chances to recover.
Ice coverage Gliscor lives
Ice coverage Gliscor doesn't live
I don't like to rely on calcs because Pokemon games aren't that clean. The point of these is that we have all seen Gliscor casually demolish a Great Tusk trying to get rid of its hazards. And it's all well and good that Glowking can survive an earthquake, but it doesn't kill and it can't survive the next one. Ice coverage does not remotely mean that you have answered Gliscor.
Now to change pace, I'm also against a Gliscor ban. These strengths are pretty insane, but OU mons are allowed to be good.
The big weakness identified in the post above is the protect turns. If you can't do anything with the protect turns that's on you. You can make more progress than the Gliscor is getting with the 12% heal.
I honestly think the main reason Gliscor feels overbearing is people's addiction to U-turn. For some players, more than 50% of the moves they click in a match will be u-turn. Gliscor is a great U-turn punish in slower matchups.
There is this perception that switching to your Corviknight then clicking U-turn means you have "gained momentum". This is sort of true, but momentum is only useful when it leads to progress, otherwise it's fake. Gliscor is making 20%-30% worth of recovery progress every time you do your slow "momentum" pivot. It's on you to make more progress than that, and if you can't it means you didn't use your momentum and got outplayed.
There are also knock off and U-turn, the 2 most commonly clicked moves in OU. Gliscor will heal roughly 20% on them.
Considering that ice coverage rarely kills it you get plenty of chances to recover.
Ice coverage Gliscor lives
Ice coverage Gliscor doesn't live
I don't like to rely on calcs because Pokemon games aren't that clean. The point of these is that we have all seen Gliscor casually demolish a Great Tusk trying to get rid of its hazards. And it's all well and good that Glowking can survive an earthquake, but it doesn't kill and it can't survive the next one. Ice coverage does not remotely mean that you have answered Gliscor.
Now to change pace, I'm also against a Gliscor ban. These strengths are pretty insane, but OU mons are allowed to be good.
The big weakness identified in the post above is the protect turns. If you can't do anything with the protect turns that's on you. You can make more progress than the Gliscor is getting with the 12% heal.
I honestly think the main reason Gliscor feels overbearing is people's addiction to U-turn. For some players, more than 50% of the moves they click in a match will be u-turn. Gliscor is a great U-turn punish in slower matchups.
There is this perception that switching to your Corviknight then clicking U-turn means you have "gained momentum". This is sort of true, but momentum is only useful when it leads to progress, otherwise it's fake. Gliscor is making 20%-30% worth of recovery progress every time you do your slow "momentum" pivot. It's on you to make more progress than that, and if you can't it means you didn't use your momentum and got outplayed.
Thank you. I'm so glad to see somebody else talk about Gliscor counterplay in depth.
I just want to add that Hex and the Fighting moves teams already want for Gambit and/or BP mons work very well together. The only types Gliscor can Tera into to resist Ghost are Normal and Dark, which are both weak to Fighting.
I have a 7 paragraph DNB post ready for the thread; this Pokémon is staying or else.
Tera Normal is lowkey not great defensively because it gives you a massive weakness to Corv, a top Scor check anyways, and Zama, the #2 mon right now. Plus you're now weak to the ever-present Iron Valiant and the million Close Combat mons
Lowkey, send it here. Or at least a partial version of it. I'm always down to here obscenely long yap sessions, so long as it's in a "Ok, this dude has a lot to say" and not in a "Bro is just doing this to stroke their ego"
Expect this to be posted in the Gliscor Suspect Thread.
In my honest opinion, Gliscor isn't overpowered. Nearly all playstyles have very easy ways to check it and annoy it.
Hyper-offense has numerous mons to chip it, trade with it, then wreck it quickly, such as Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-Wellspring, etc. Weather teams also have numerous ways to handle it, despite them losing popularity as of late. Webs isn't too bothered either, as Meteor Beam Glimmora outright threatens to OHKO it and the main Webs setter as of late being Surf Araquanid (thanks Duckular).
Offense has numerous Pokémon such as Primarina, Taunt Landorus-T, and Ogerpon-Wellspring that all work together to handle it regardless of what set it is and what it decides to invest it.
Even balances and bulky offenses have numerous ways to defeat it, such as Weavile, Boots Kyurem (who's now back!), the aforementioned Primarina, Ice Spinner Great Tusk, CB Rillaboom, IronPress Corv, Hex Dragapult, Taunt Lando-T etc. Not that any of these Pokémon are permanent, solid answers on their own, but they're all good balance/BO mons that can be slotted together to create a solid plan against Gliscor.
Even bulkier teams have ways to tech for Gliscor. Clefable eternally has an empty slot besides Moonblast, Rocks, and Moonlight, and Ice Beam works perfectly to snipe not only Gliscor, but Lando-T, Garchomp, Dragonite, and the like. IronPress Corv is another solid answer that can be found on bulkier teams. Physically defensive Slowking-Galar is also okay with running Ice Beam as its third slot, and while it's nowhere near a solid answer, it can help. For styles such as Bulky Hazard Stack, Weavile and Darkrai are fantastic anyways as Knock Off users, and they both carry nukes to hit Scor with.
Finally, hard stall and semistall. Semistall often carries Pokémon such as Weavile, Hoopa-Unbound, Meowscarada, or any breakers that punish enemy passive teams, all of which destroy Gliscor as a result of their breaking prowess. Even hard stall has ways to beat quite a lot of Gliscors, from Ice Beam Clefable (although admittedly hard to fit), Avalanche Dondozo, IronPress Corv, Tera Ice Hydrapple (who isn't super common but exists), and Weezing-Galar, who all feature usage on stall. While yes, SD Gliscor's matchup into stall is certainly unfortunate at times, stall can and should have answers to at least partially mitigate the issue.
But the question is, what if Gliscor decides to Terastallize? Well, Tera is generally considered worth a Pokémon or even more, and while Gliscor is a fantastic abuser, it's still a weakness. Firstly, it's still incredibly weak to Kyurem, Meowscarada, and Ogerpon-Wellspring with Tera Water, and terastallizing to it will likely do nothing outside buy you a few turns against those 3. Tera Dragon is another common one, but it creates massive new weaknesses in the form of Fairies and fast Dragons such as Raging Bolt, Dragapult, and Iron Valiant. Finally, Tera Normal. Tera Normal is fantastic on some sets, however it often leads to you losing to IronPress Pokémon, Close Combat users, and gives you very few resistances to lean back on.
Gliscor is still a fantastic Tera user, I won't deny it. But every time it terastallizes, it gains new weaknesses to extremely common Pokémon that can be easily slotted on many playstyles, and also gives up its ability to be nearly hazard-immune, making it take hazard damage all over again if it's forced to switch out by a Pokémon that threatens its new type.
While I do think Gliscor is an amazing Pokémon by all means, and deserves heavy consideration, planning, and prep on all playstyles, I don't think it's broken or banworthy specifically because every playstyle except arguably hard stall (who almost always use Gliscor anyways) can tech for it in numerous easy, slottable, and varied ways to answer not only its base typing, but its many teras as well.
First off, thanks for wording this in seperate paragraphs. Reading it was way easier. Onto the actual reply!
This post is unironically making me reconsider my Gliscor stance. The way I see it, I was under the impression that Gliscor was one of those "It's far from the most broken thing in the meta, but it's not something ideal. Not something we need", and the defensive answers to it were a big part of why I was and still am sympathetic to the ban Gliscor camp. (In case you're wondering, i'm actually relatively 50/50 on it, despite me talking about it's strenghts making it sound like I think it's too much).
One thing I do want to mention is some lesser seen Tera types with Gliscor. Specifically, Fairy and Ghost, as though they're rare, they do exist and I feel like I should give them lip service at the very least. Tera Ghost making it a bulky Spin blocker can be very appreciated on some teams. Too bad it makes you Dragapult fodder. Tera Fairy is something i've warmed up to a little. It's Fairy. You know what it does. To be clear, i'm mentioning these to say that Gliscor isn't as stagnant with Tera as we believe. As easy as it is to slap on Tera Dragon to have a backup check to Wellspring, you got options, and pretty good ones. I know someone's gonna bring up Hazard Stack, and that Gliscor contributes to it too much, and while I don't disagree with that, it's not like Gliscor's ban will change that as much as we'd hope to. At least, I think so. That's less a Gliscor issue and more of a "Having only two good ass spinners and only one decent Defogger sucks" issue.
But, onto the million dollar question; If Gliscor's not the issue, what it
Tera Ghost and Fairy are solid but they're more "balanced" teras I guess. Like, nobody is EVER running these outside of wanting their Spikes scor to be a bit more useful in some random matchups, unlike the more potentially malicious Normal, Water, and Dragon. Idk if that makes sense but it makes sense to me
My hot take is that I'm fine with the meta as it is! If bans had to happen, I'd ban the cheese more than main threats, honestly. Are Gambit, Roaring Moon, Waterpon, and Kyurem broken? Maybe. But I'd rather ban Iron Moth and Hamurott (even though neither will get banned, which I'm fine with) because I'd rather have brokens than having rng cheesemons. Yk?
But yeah, I don't think any mons are super necessary bans rn outside of Kyurem and Waterpon. Please don't ban scor, guys, it's fine.
I'd be fine with this. Gambit is annoying sometimes and offense/HO would be fine with this lowkey. However, 11 resistances... I'll miss you... Ghost resist + Steel compression...
It makes sense to me, at least. Extra flexibility with your Spiker never sounds like a bad thing.
Idk if Roaring Moon is actually banworthy or not, but I really don't like it's presence. It's probably the worst offender of the "Mr. Buttonclicker" pokemon. Just throw it in, hit stuff hard, die, and let your teammates clean up. It feels lame to play with it and especially to go against. I'm just waiting to see how much Roaring Moon can do once it stops one-tricking Tera Flying. I know for a fact that Tera Ground has some crazy merits. Tera Steel is what it is. We know why it's good and why someone would use it. You think Tera Ghost for an ESpeed and Fighting immunity could cook?
Tera Ghost is viable on any sweeper that wants to beat Dragonite and Zamazenta ngl
And on every bulky mon that wants to spinblock which is most of them
I think it's the beat Tera Type overall tbh, I would say more shit should run it, but every mon already does honestly, from Iron Moth to Deoxys-S to Glimmora to Alomomola to Gliscor to etc.
Imagine a ghost with Gking bulk now, that's TERRIFYING
I bet my freedom of speech that even if Kingambit was supect tested, there's no way it'll receive enough support to get the axe. I've stopped entertaining the idea for months. Don't matter how many players say they want Kingambit axed. It's a hot take with substance at best
You bet your what? So if this happens somehow, do people on here just get to tell you what to say from then on?
i will never trust OU suspects after the kyurem debacle
who knows what could have been.
My faith in the suspect process was shaken as well. Seeing OU's top talent trying to cheat in order to rid the tier of a fair and balanced Pokemon like Kyurem has left my heart torn and my faith weakened. Can we ever trust the suspect process the same way again? What else will players cheat on and rig to get their preferred outcome on? We have already seen botting occur on surveys at an alarming rate, with thousands of botted votes on an ealier survey this generation where other honest Pokemon like Kingambit and Gholdengo were targeted with 5s despite that not reflecting the playerbase's true beliefs and values. Thankfully that incident was easily caught, but who's to say a more skilled or clever cheater couldn't manipulate things to match their desired preference? The thought it deeply troubling - and it should be to all of us.
I must once again thank Finchinator and Ausma for being true beacons in this communitiy, dedicating much of their own time and effort to rooting out these instances of fraud, as well as other talented contibutors such as the showdown staff. Above all, what should be prioritized in this tier is fairness and security in order to best reflect what the playerbase wants. The system should not bend its will to fraudsters and cheaters.
IMO ghost is a top 3 tera type with the other two being fairy and steel. Both fairy and steel bring HUGE matchup flipping potential to the table and can pretty cleanly patch up defensive holes in a mon (if only once or twice). Ghost is a lot of the same since it gets all the advantages of being ghost type (2 great immunities) but all of the issues of being a ghost type (2 of the most damning weaknesses in the game) Tera blast is also great on fairy and ghost but none of the mons that run those teras really like using tera blast except gambit and sometimes kyurem. Tera steel blast is a non-issue since steel is more or less a strictly defensive type.
There are other types that are great on specific mons (tera poison darkrai/ting-lu comes to mind) but ghost, fairy, and steel are the most splashable by far. Fairy and Steel are generally good defensive types and ghost is a great type on pretty much any mon that struggles with something like zama/sd gliscor/maybe ival (take that with a grain of salt since shadow ball is really popular coverage on it rn)