-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Shaymin Skyand TPP.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Hamu likes running other items(av, boots, black glasses sometimes) plus scarf locking it into a move makes it decently worse into bulkier teams.
Enamorus is barely worth being in ou, but it can run scarf(i wouldnt use enamorus in the first place though)
Darkrai would rather run boots or even expert belt. Scarf is generally not as needed or has more usage, but outspeeding some threats can be useful in some situations.
Meow is just not good, but scarf can be useful(i figured boots or band is better though)
Ghold likes balloon, or rocky helmet for bulky builds. Scarf can be useful with trick, but theres still a lot of oppurtunity cost with not running bulky builds.
>Just because a mon's most common item isn't scarf doesn't mean it can't be a scarfer
>Just because a pokemon is fringe in OU like enam and meow doesn't mean it's a bad pokemon by any means. You wouldn't say Scizor or Blissey or Hoopa-U is bad despite them being generally considered worse than enam, would you?
Last edited by a moderator:
Scizor, hoopa, and blissey arent exactly good. Enamorus at least has a decent typing, and unique movepool. Scizor has insane competition with other better steels(why would i use scizor when gambit basically does what it does but better), hoopa has bad typing+speed issues(being a special tank doesnt matter when specs pult can do the easiest prediction and both do like 40% and go into another teammate), and blissey(stall) in general are becoming more niche and less viable overall as an archetype.
Also theres a reason scarf is ran less than other items. Locking yourself into one move was ok before, but now its very much more exploitable. Band and specs can make up for this in raw power, scarf cant do it as well. Why would i run darkrai with scarf, when i can use boots instead and have more utility with wisp or knock? Being chipped down by hazards especially dont help, so boots are just better overall. Meow and enamorus mainly run scarf because theres not any better option(cm enamorus is non existent, and meow just cant justify having increasingly middlying attack)
Scizor, Hoopa, and Blissey are all solid in OU, firstly. They're all deserving of B+ or B and they put in work in a variety of different matchups despite them being hard to fit.
Scarf makes up for the choice lock by allowing you to outspeed things which is sometimes more valuable than damage.
I still use Scarf Meowscarada. Funny how we have to consider running Scarf on a mon with 379 max speed now.
Meow is the fastest Scarfer with U-Turn, so it can get a jump against Non-Scarf Darkrai, +1 speed tera-less Moon and Pon after 1 Trailblaze. Triple Axel, despite being shaky at best, is actually decent against a plethora of Dragons. Knock Off is Knock Off. Last but not least, Trick allows it to fuck over set-up sweepers like Long Neck and BU Palafin.
Meow is the fastest Scarfer with U-Turn, so it can get a jump against Non-Scarf Darkrai, +1 speed tera-less Moon and Pon after 1 Trailblaze. Triple Axel, despite being shaky at best, is actually decent against a plethora of Dragons. Knock Off is Knock Off. Last but not least, Trick allows it to fuck over set-up sweepers like Long Neck and BU Palafin.
1984
anyways yea meow and enam are both solid scarfers idk, so are hammy, ghold, lando, and more. scarf isnt a bad item by any means nor is it even too uncommon
Meowscarada isn't bad. Scarf Meowscarada isn't bad. However I just think Meowscarada suffers from being too slow to be this frail and this (relatively) weak. Now technically Meowscarada is really fast but the problem is that it is still slower than all of its best checks which include but aren't limited to Roaring Moon (with acrobatics which is still the most common set even if tera ground is pretty good) Dragapult Zamazenta Iron Valiant and plenty of other mons that are faster. Meowscarada is also pretty weak compared to other ou mons with it only having 110 attack which isn't horrible but it isn't enough. These 2 problems lead to the fact that Meowscarada has to choose between 3 possibilities for items all of which have big drawbacks that hurt it. If it uses heavy duty boots to get on the field more easily it loses both any extra speed or power it could get from choice scarf or band. If it chooses one of those choice items it sacrifices getting a boost in the other stat and it is choice locked into one move (it does have u turn to pivot out if it needs to but it isn't enough to make up for the choice lock like it does other pokemon). While Meowscarada will always have a niche due to protean and having an insanely good movepool its downsides are too limiting to ignore. It is crazy that it has stayed ou this long and hopefully it drops to uu soon (even if it gets banned to uubl).
Edit: I forgot to mention that Palafin being suspected does mean that Meowscarada will probably scrape enough usage to be above usage requirements this month due to having a stab grass move that always crits meaning it hits through defensive boosts (aka it beats bulk up sets sometimes).
Another good thing about Meowscarada is that it has Trick to cripple Palafin. I can't count how many times I get bailed out of a hard situation because Trick Meow saves me from Palafin.
Part grass is actually very valuable in taking a jet punch.
you're right, we should ban all the counters to get a good idea of what its like
Meowscarada also pairs up pretty well with palafin since Palafin can help it vs a good number of its checks (think Gambit, Darkrai, Weavile, Moltres kinda, etc.) while Meow has alright 1v1 MUs with Oger / Raging Bolt and can Knock Off Helmets from opps like Corv (which I think Palafin hates), punish Tera Waters with Flower Trick, bring it safely with U-turn, etc.
Main issue is that both mons are kinda bad into Pult
I'm not saying we should do anything
nah i was just joking, i wasnt tryna say you said anything lol
mb, forum's been particularly hostile leading to Christmas
we should ban toxapex from OU. It's oppressive, unhealthy, and limits building severely. here's why:
1) it's incredibly oppressive to offense. Offense and HO as archetypes are severely hampered by toxapex's existence. Pokemon such as Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Glimmora, Samurott-H, Pecharunt, Primarina, and more are all hard walled by toxapex with very little counterplay. Think of how much chi-yu limited balance and stall, effectively neutralizing them, that's what toxapex does to offense.
2) even its "counters" don't counter it. Raging Bolt? Oops, it clicked Tera Grass and now you're screwed. SD Ogerpon-Wellspring? It can run Sludge Bomb and again loses to Tera. Tera Ground Roaring Moon? Tera Flying Toxapex is not an uncommon sight. Only really hard fishes such as Tera Steel Raging Bolt and Taunt Roaring Moon have favourable matchups into it.
3) toxapex won't be dearly missed in the tier. Stall will be fine without the starfish legal, as Amoonguss, Clodsire, and Alomomola will all fill its role in countering Primarina, Iron Valiant, Iron Moth, and Ogerpon-Wellspring. You'll be fine.
In conclusion, toxapex is a very unhealthy Pokemon in OU right now, as it limits offense and HO to an extreme degree, forcing them to be built almost entirely to counter toxapex. It doesn't add much either healthily, as stall and fat can easily replace it with Pokemon almost as good without having the ability ro completely shut down offense. Therefore, I will be advocating for a toxapex suspect in the near future in OU. Thank you for my presentation.
1) it's incredibly oppressive to offense. Offense and HO as archetypes are severely hampered by toxapex's existence. Pokemon such as Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Glimmora, Samurott-H, Pecharunt, Primarina, and more are all hard walled by toxapex with very little counterplay. Think of how much chi-yu limited balance and stall, effectively neutralizing them, that's what toxapex does to offense.
2) even its "counters" don't counter it. Raging Bolt? Oops, it clicked Tera Grass and now you're screwed. SD Ogerpon-Wellspring? It can run Sludge Bomb and again loses to Tera. Tera Ground Roaring Moon? Tera Flying Toxapex is not an uncommon sight. Only really hard fishes such as Tera Steel Raging Bolt and Taunt Roaring Moon have favourable matchups into it.
3) toxapex won't be dearly missed in the tier. Stall will be fine without the starfish legal, as Amoonguss, Clodsire, and Alomomola will all fill its role in countering Primarina, Iron Valiant, Iron Moth, and Ogerpon-Wellspring. You'll be fine.
In conclusion, toxapex is a very unhealthy Pokemon in OU right now, as it limits offense and HO to an extreme degree, forcing them to be built almost entirely to counter toxapex. It doesn't add much either healthily, as stall and fat can easily replace it with Pokemon almost as good without having the ability ro completely shut down offense. Therefore, I will be advocating for a toxapex suspect in the near future in OU. Thank you for my presentation.
so true raine so true
Someday I will become the most god tier baiter of all time, just you wait.
Ban toxapex. It's broken. HO is completely unviable in SV OU because of this Pokemon. In a similar vein, hoopa and luna invalidating stall means they should be banned.
you know, i respect the dedication needed for this level of larp. in order to at least sorta remain on topic, what are the nfes that are viable in ou rn (besides my goat sneasel)
let’s remember this is OU metagame discussion and not the shitpost emporium, thanks.
To not shitpost: I'm not sure if this is more suited for Policy Review than the discussion thread, but it's interesting that the unban threshold on quickbans is 50%+1 when National Dex just had a 60% threshold. Would it be worth potentially exploring either a drop in the ban threshold to 50%+1 or increasing the unban threshold to 60%? These two seem more intuitive than the system today, but I could be misguided.
It's also possible that the meta feels very warped around Palafin right now because a huge number of mons actually check it.
If pre-existing teams already had multiple Palafin checks accidentally, that seems to indicate it is pretty healthy.
If pre-existing teams already had multiple Palafin checks accidentally, that seems to indicate it is pretty healthy.
my hater alarm is going off with a passion. i see ur point tho, sadly the issue with most nfes with ou viable evos.
