Unpopular opinions

[Basedwell]

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous take.

I mentioned IVs, which are a purely RNG-based mechanic that defines whether a not a mon will be complete garbage and that you can't interact with outside of breeding in earlier gens, which is its own can of worms.

IVs and Nature don't come into play in any part of the game besides certain parts of the postgame, with some exception for low stat mons for whom perfect stats can def help

You mentioned valuing the luster of actually earning things through effort in the same breath you talked about hacking in Rare Candies.

There's a world of difference there.

Yeah, my point was that QoL improvements, even tho they're less significant than hacking in rare candies, can smooth out parts of the game and lead to your overall experience feeling less rewarding. Then ended my post by saying that some of those inefficiencies were so dumb (like having to navigate through a menu to use another repel) that smoothing them out was common sense.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Yeah this is pretty similar to the conclusion I would write. I think the Zelda comparison is interesting because nowadays it seems like the preferred pre-BoTW 3D games among hardcore fans are Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. These are games that maybe could be argued to be "worse" than OoT if you drop everything other than the most cold and clinical form of Zelda level design dissection, but they make up for it by having extremely strong, well-executed identities both visually and gameplay-wise. "Cartoony sea-faring adventure" and "sinister, apocalyptic dark fantasy on a time limit" are concepts nothing else in Zelda even attempts to replicate, whereas OoT already re-used a lot of old tropes and in turn would have its tropes re-used from how vastly influential it was.

Obviously it's not quite as stark, but a similar point can be made about Platinum and, say, the Unova and Alola games. It's an important game worth celebrating, but I can't help but feel that in many ways it has been surpassed and that a lot of it is disparate building blocks that never quite coalesce into the greater whole required to truly take it to that next level.

It's well-documented that we have polar opposite views on Alola, so I'm not opening that can of worms again

Even though, if I were to be fair to Alola, they did try to tackle the difficulty issue, it just wasn't in a way that I'd consider good.

Unova on the other hand... Hoo boy, what a MESS. I'm not sure if your analogy works, the biggest icons of Unova are the distorted, fugly ahh sprites, BW1's story, which got more issues than RB and SV got glitches combined, (Note how they NEVER talk about BW2's story btw), and memes like Driftveil's theme (Actually fire, but I'm a hater, so I'll stay on code.)
And honestly, every single issue with Platinum should have already been fixed (and were in hacks). But...

It would almost be shocking to know that BDSP actually turned out decent, despite its many, many, obvious, glaring, grotesque flaws. But then again, it's Kinnoh. They literally tried to bury it and couldn't finish the job properly. It's just THAT good.


Since we're on the subject of Status, even though this might not be exactly an unpopular opinion...

One of the biggest reasons Ice-types couldn't get it together until Gen 9 was Freeze.

What a completely obnoxious status effect. Idiotic even. I'm on the camp that it should be replaced with Frostbite even though I don't remember what it does just because ANYTHING is better than Freeze.

This, of course, made buffing Ice very complicated for generations. When a type's identity is tied to a 10% chance of immediately neutralizing an opponent on every one of their high-profile moves, it's tough trying to encourage people to actually use an Ice-type. Especially with all of the other design issues tied to it.

For decades, the general rule of thumb was "Just use Ice Beam on an Water-type lol". And honestly, that's the play.

Which brings me to my unpopular opinion of the day.

Water-types should NOT have access to Ice Beam/Blizzard.

To be frank, I'm not saying this with the current gen standards of "Everyone gets excellent coverage, no drawbacks!" I'm thinking about older gens. Especially ones without Scald.

Scald was, without a doubt, the worst move to ever be made in this game, so I won't go into detail, let's think about good old, boring Surf.

Water has always been an elite neutral type, but if you think about it, whenever you play a Water-type, don't you get the feeling that you'd rather click anything but STAB?

There's something wrong with that type, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

IVs and Nature don't come into play in any part of the game besides certain parts of the postgame, with some exception for low stat mons for whom perfect stats can def help

Trust me, when you get a zero IV mon, you'll absolutely feel it. Bad natures cutting your stats down by 10% is also very noticeable.

Yeah, my point was that QoL improvements, even tho they're less significant than hacking in rare candies, can smooth out parts of the game and lead to your overall experience feeling less rewarding. Then ended my post by saying that some of those inefficiencies were so dumb (like having to navigate through a menu to use another repel) that smoothing them out was common sense.

It mostly depends on what adjustments are being made, and how they interact with the rest of the game.

For example, if you patch in modernized level-up learnsets, it'll feel good to not be in situations like, well, this:

On the other hand, you also just massively buffed every single non-boss trainer.

That's a convenience improvement that doesn't decrease friction in a game.

There are several ways to modernize a game without neutralizing it.

 

[Worldie]

Toxic has always been near-universal. GF has just grown more and more anti-stall as the generations went on, until a benchmark move from Gen 1 is too powerful to have on most stall mons.

Toxic hasn't been near universal since gen 8 when it got removed from TMs.

GF isn't "anti stall" per se. Stall isnt a factor, it's not played in VGC, it's not played in BSS, its only usage has ever been on very rare timer-stalling matchup fish teams that never got anywhere.

You really should stop thinking GameFreaks cares for smogon metas. They don't. They never have. 6v6 singles hasn't existed for them for the last 4 generations if not more.
The reason you see the game balance skewed toward offense is cause it's more scenic to watch, expecially now that they're really trying their hardest to attract audience on streams. Noone likes to watch defensive play, even though it's tecnically still skillful gameplay.
It was literally 30 mins ago I was entertaining myself looking at Twitch chat flaming the person who brought Dondozo / TingLu at a match and preparing for a snorefest and hoping they lost.
(Fun fact, they didn't even bring them, they just led Calyrex+Ogerpon and bonked their way in what looked more like a HO team than a stall one. Didn't even need to tera)

Edit: Fwiw, Knock Off is in similar boat: it has very little usage, you only occasionally see it on Incineroar nowadays and it's generally a very rare move. Hard to justify over higher BP moves when matches are often over in 4-5 turns and removing the item does nothing to progress the game state.

 

[pokemon4eva]

I used to think the logic of everyone learning Toxic was bc every animal can a be a vector of diseases, but going back to RBY, Toxic is described as Koga's secret ninja art technique. And which other moves are associated with ninja arts? Double Team and Substitute, moves that near every mon can learn too, so that applies to Toxic as well. All Pokémon had ninja genes apparently haha

And on the record of difficulty, I'm doing unevoled runs of the Pokemon games, I already beat X and Crystal (yes, even the Red fight, not doing that ever again...) and I'm saving Pt and SM for last bc I KNOW these two will give me the hardest time.

Water has always been an elite neutral type, but if you think about it, whenever you play a Water-type, don't you get the feeling that you'd rather click anything but STAB?

It's not secret that Water is the real favorite of the franchise, and not Electric, by the time of Gen 6 it had combined with every single Pokemon type ever for maximum coverage. Heck, even TCG Pocket where most of the EX cards are Water types (I hate Misty so much...)

 

[Lontra Assassina]

On a similar note: I like the *idea* behind the removal of Return, as it makes every other physical Normal STAB move redundant and it's a relic of a time when the friendship mechanics were much simpler. However, it ultimately feels like a half measure as now every Normal physical attacker is very underwhelming unless their name is Ursaluna.

My hot take is that they should have buffed the base power of most physical Normal moves to compensate. Would a Body Slam with 95 base power and 30% chance to paralyze be evil? Maybe, but give my little Normal boys SOMETHING!

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

On a similar note: I like the *idea* behind the removal of Return, as it makes every other physical Normal STAB move redundant and it's a relic of a time when the friendship mechanics were much simpler. However, it ultimately feels like a half measure as now every Normal physical attacker is very underwhelming unless their name is Ursaluna.

My hot take is that they should have buffed the base power of most physical Normal moves to compensate. Would a Body Slam with 95 base power and 30% chance to paralyze be evil? Maybe, but give my little Normal boys SOMETHING!

Normal is probably one of the worst types rn.

Some deviant decided to make Close Combat a TM, and pretty much everything that wants it, gets it, so they're cooked on defense.

There are also little to no great STAB options physically or specially, on a type that straight up can't hit anything SE.

And to make things worse, the big selling point of great coverage is dime-a-dozen now.

Normal was neutered to the point of it being actively a liability. Awful design choices.

 

[Ironmage]

I used to think the logic of everyone learning Toxic was bc every animal can a be a vector of diseases, but going back to RBY, Toxic is described as Koga's secret ninja art technique. And which other moves are associated with ninja arts? Double Team and Substitute, moves that near every mon can learn too, so that applies to Toxic as well. All Pokémon had ninja genes apparently haha

How did I not notice that before? It almost seems like there was an extra layer to this after Zoroark came out: because the main ninja tricks were universal, none of them would give away Illusion. At least Zoroark-unova kept Toxic (Zoroark-Hisui didn't)?

 

[Hugin]

Toxic hasn't been near universal since gen 8 when it got removed from TMs.

GF isn't "anti stall" per se. Stall isnt a factor, it's not played in VGC, it's not played in BSS, its only usage has ever been on very rare timer-stalling matchup fish teams that never got anywhere.

You really should stop thinking GameFreaks cares for smogon metas. They don't. They never have. 6v6 singles hasn't existed for them for the last 4 generations if not more.
The reason you see the game balance skewed toward offense is cause it's more scenic to watch, expecially now that they're really trying their hardest to attract audience on streams. Noone likes to watch defensive play, even though it's tecnically still skillful gameplay.
It was literally 30 mins ago I was entertaining myself looking at Twitch chat flaming the person who brought Dondozo / TingLu at a match and preparing for a snorefest and hoping they lost.
(Fun fact, they didn't even bring them, they just led Calyrex+Ogerpon and bonked their way in what looked more like a HO team than a stall one. Didn't even need to tera)

Right, they are deliberately balancing to encourage offense and discourage stall, to the detriment of actual meta balance.

Edit: Fwiw, Knock Off is in similar boat: it has very little usage, you only occasionally see it on Incineroar nowadays and it's generally a very rare move. Hard to justify over higher BP moves when matches are often over in 4-5 turns and removing the item does nothing to progress the game state.

You don't pick Knock Off for removing items, you pick it because it's the highest BP dark physical move outside of Signatures. 97.5 if it lands once, 78.75 if it lands twice on the same mon. The closest comparison are Crunch or Throat Chop at 80 BP every time, much less relevant when you'll only click a Dark move a couple times per battle. The fact that it has a 100% chance of a useful unique secondary effect is just icing.

 

[Wukong]

I know y'all ain't talking smack about the GOAT region, Sinnoh.

In all seriousness though, and that's a lot coming from me, Platinum is starting to show some wrinkles.

Not in the "omg, what a hag" way, but right now, in my opinion, it leans closer to Ocarina of Time.

I'll explain. Ocarina of Time needs no introduction, it's a generational game in every sense of the word, and it is recognized by many, including awards in an era when they actually evaluated games, as the game of the century.

More accurately, the game of last century.

If one were to play OoT in 2025, they would certainly recognize it as a masterpiece, but it just feels a bit... dated at this point. Mind you, I'm not talking about the graphics. For example, the warp points are extremely inconvenient.

Similarly, the best way to play Platinum nowadays is on an emulator so you can have easier access to QoL patches, and PkHex because IVs suck.

Granted, those could've been fixed by a remake, but...

Basically, what I'm saying is that as great as Platinum is, by now, it's more of a gold standard than an undisputed #1. Which is even more impressive tbh, there aren't a lot of games that can stand the test of time like this.

Platinum, and Emerald while I'm at it, have a LOT of lessons to teach to the newer games. When it comes to things like map design, they're still undefeated in this franchise.
Hell, Platinum still has the most iconic in-game team of all time, and unlike the Kanto games, it's not because of a lack of options early-game. But in terms of QoL, it has long been surpassed.

As for the last pages before this post... Man, I can't believe y'all still talking about Dexit.

But that's a topic for another post.

This is why I like this forum. Because it challenges and lends perspective to my pre-conceived notions.

I wrote here about my criteria for judging Pokemon games. But I forgot about one - technical prowess. And this is unfortunately where Platinum falters.

As a Zelda fan too, the OoT analogies are apt. As a Star Wars fan too, I'll add one more - A New Hope. Platinum, OoT, and ANH all give off a seminal, iconic, classic feel. Even arguably representing the most definitive experiences of their respective franchises. As has been alluded to earlier in this thread, Platinum in some ways represents the most refined version of the classic formula Pokemon tried to perfect with Gen's 1-4. And I believe they succeeded. In terms of the other criteria I listed in that previous post, Platinum's bones/skeletal structure are excellent. The best the franchise has to offer, in my opinion. It's for a similar reason I still rank OoT at the top of its franchise and ANH second behind ESB in the Star Wars franchise (not to digress, sorry). OoT just feels like pure Zelda, and A New Hope feels like Star Wars. It sounds esoteric but I'm not sure how else to explain it.

But even the most ardent fans of those works could not argue that they have already shown considerable age. Playing Platinum on the original hardware just doesn't result in the kind of snappy feel that even Gen's 3 and 5 managed to produce. Even something as small as not being able to check your starter's stats until after your first rival battle AND a flood of dialogue from your mom, sets the tone out of the gate for a slow paced experience that becomes difficult to defend over time. So while the skeleton is nearly perfect, the blood flow so to speak is far from it.

My biggest problem with BW2 is its inability to stand well as a self contained game. It took arguably the worst part of BW1's storyline (the Ghetsis plot point) and drew a straight through line of that point through the entirety of the game. Even roping in and ultimately infecting your rival's character in the process. So structurally I still think Platinum has BW2 beat.

But BW2's maximization of the DS's technical specs (even if pushed over the edge at times graphically) may ultimately, if not already, result in the games aging much better than Platinum. Perhaps akin to Majora's Mask and Windwaker if we're to use that analogy.

However, Platinum's near perfection of the original games' intended formula still warrants its place as a masterpiece, technical limitations notwithstanding.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

But BW2's maximization of the DS's technical specs (even if pushed over the edge at times graphically) may ultimately, if not already, result in the games aging much better than Platinum. Perhaps akin to Majora's Mask and Windwaker if we're to use that analogy.

Ironically, what drives me away from BW2 the most is just how dated and ugly that game looks.

Sprites are not to be zoomed out and stretched or whatever they did with the battle sprites. That's literally the biggest selling point of 3D, being able to fully use three dimensions and animations.

And we know for a fact how good a modernized Platinum can truly be with the BDSP hacks.

People bashed the Chibi art style, but that was a nothing burger, to say the least. In fact, using it enabled the devs to actually maintain Sinnoh's map design instead of completely bastardizing it as PLA did. It would've been near impossible to make a 3D remake of Platinum unless somehow they got the Resident Evil 2 Remake crew to make it work on a Switch.


Also, while I'm at it, both Unova games' stories are dogshit. People only hype them up because everything was so barebones and cartoonish before that it looked good in comparison.

 

[Sonikku A]

Honestly I'd be fine with none tiled maps for Sinnoh, PLA didn't go hard enough. Sinnoh and especially Kanto suffer from it the most after all
Like this size is bad, even worse on OG hardware

The waterfall in front of it even worse. The binoculars don't really hide that this is a giant artificial feeling rectangle with a tiny castle with crappy roof textures

The concept art actually looking like naturalist landscapes and the anime aren't helping. It took till BW for cities to feel not rigid, Gen 7 for routes overall

I do feel Pokemon is a franchise where faithful to map design hinders more than is cool for the first 4 Gens. This isn't like a platformer or 3D dungeon game where changing gameplay would be blasphemous

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Honestly I'd be fine with none tiled maps for Sinnoh, PLA didn't go hard enough. Sinnoh and especially Kanto suffer from it the most after all
Like this size is bad, even worse on OG hardware
View attachment 708108

The waterfall in front of it even worse. The binoculars don't really hide that this is a giant artificial feeling rectangle with a tiny castle with crappy roof textures
View attachment 708109
The concept art actually looking like naturalist landscapes and the anime aren't helping. It took till BW for cities to feel not rigid, Gen 7 for routes overall

I do feel Pokemon is a franchise where faithful to map design hinders more than is cool for the first 4 Gens. This isn't like a platformer or 3D dungeon game where changing gameplay would be blasphemous

Can you honestly look at the Switch games and say they had better map design though?

Sinnoh's scale just wouldn't be feasible to replicate in 3D, especially since it'd need to be overhauled because it was designed with a fixed-angle perspective.

I'd rather have BDSP's version of it than having it butchered. Hisui, in no way, shape, or form reminds me of Sinnoh map-wise. That's ok because it's not a DPPt Remake, but if it were, people would be livid.

 

[Sonikku A]

Never said anything bout Switch games being good for map modeling


They seriously suffer from lack of triplannar mapping and mountain sculpting for terrain. Like I can like fringe areas (the beginning in SwSh and the mushroom glowing forest, ScaVio's generic grasslands), but GF seriously suffers for beaches, forests, and mountains

Which in 2025 is beyond shameful, but whatever

 

[Lontra Assassina]

I *could* say that the hate over the chibi models in BDSP had to do more with fans not wanting to be perceived as "childish" over an actual critique of the visuals, but that might too much of a hot take even for here lol.

That being said, I think BDSP does look a bit bland, but it still looks nice enough considering the conditions it was made on. Some of the battle backgrounds are easily some of the best in the series.

 

[ant4456]

Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl look mid until you play it during sunset, where it becomes one of the prettiest Pokemon games yet.

I also particularly like how water looks in this game and Pokecenters.

 

[Sonikku A]

I *could* say that the hate over the chibi models in BDSP had to do more with fans not wanting to be perceived as "childish" over an actual critique of the visuals, but that might too much of a hot take even for here lol.

Nah, you're 100% right

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I *could* say that the hate over the chibi models in BDSP had to do more with fans not wanting to be perceived as "childish" over an actual critique of the visuals, but that might too much of a hot take even for here lol.

This is 100% facts

 

[pokemon4eva]

But even the most ardent fans of those works could not argue that they have already shown considerable age. Playing Platinum on the original hardware just doesn't result in the kind of snappy feel that even Gen's 3 and 5 managed to produce. Even something as small as not being able to check your starter's stats until after your first rival battle AND a flood of dialogue from your mom, sets the tone out of the gate for a slow paced experience that becomes difficult to defend over time. So while the skeleton is nearly perfect, the blood flow so to speak is far from it.

See, something I have commended XY even when they were my least favorite of the mainline games at some point is that the loading times are excellent, despite the jump to 3D graphics. Going into a battle, checking your boxes, etc. it still felt as fluid as before.

 

[Wukong]

See, something I have commended XY even when they were my least favorite of the mainline games at some point is that the loading times are excellent, despite the jump to 3D graphics. Going into a battle, checking your boxes, etc. it still felt as fluid as before.

Yeah, credit where credit is due. Even Ruby & Sapphire were quite fluid for being on a new hardware. I thought those were remarkably well made games for their time actually and set a good foundation for Emerald to build upon.

Unlike Diamond & Pearl, which is the first time I thought the series took a step backwards in multiple respects.

 

[Esserise]

I also particularly like how water looks in this game

One particular moment that I remember while playing was the scene where Barry is confronting Jupiter at Lake Acuity. The camera angle shifts from the regular top-down view to an over-the-shoulder view from behind Barry, and I swear, in that moment the water in the lake looked practically photorealistic, which was such an odd contrast next to the very cartoonish chibi characters standing there.

 

[ant4456]

This is why I like this forum. Because it challenges and lends perspective to my pre-conceived notions.

I wrote here about my criteria for judging Pokemon games. But I forgot about one - technical prowess. And this is unfortunately where Platinum falters.

As a Zelda fan too, the OoT analogies are apt. As a Star Wars fan too, I'll add one more - A New Hope. Platinum, OoT, and ANH all give off a seminal, iconic, classic feel. Even arguably representing the most definitive experiences of their respective franchises. As has been alluded to earlier in this thread, Platinum in some ways represents the most refined version of the classic formula Pokemon tried to perfect with Gen's 1-4. And I believe they succeeded. In terms of the other criteria I listed in that previous post, Platinum's bones/skeletal structure are excellent. The best the franchise has to offer, in my opinion. It's for a similar reason I still rank OoT at the top of its franchise and ANH second behind ESB in the Star Wars franchise (not to digress, sorry). OoT just feels like pure Zelda, and A New Hope feels like Star Wars. It sounds esoteric but I'm not sure how else to explain it.

But even the most ardent fans of those works could not argue that they have already shown considerable age. Playing Platinum on the original hardware just doesn't result in the kind of snappy feel that even Gen's 3 and 5 managed to produce. Even something as small as not being able to check your starter's stats until after your first rival battle AND a flood of dialogue from your mom, sets the tone out of the gate for a slow paced experience that becomes difficult to defend over time. So while the skeleton is nearly perfect, the blood flow so to speak is far from it.

My biggest problem with BW2 is its inability to stand well as a self contained game. It took arguably the worst part of BW1's storyline (the Ghetsis plot point) and drew a straight through line of that point through the entirety of the game. Even roping in and ultimately infecting your rival's character in the process. So structurally I still think Platinum has BW2 beat.

But BW2's maximization of the DS's technical specs (even if pushed over the edge at times graphically) may ultimately, if not already, result in the games aging much better than Platinum. Perhaps akin to Majora's Mask and Windwaker if we're to use that analogy.

However, Platinum's near perfection of the original games' intended formula still warrants its place as a masterpiece, technical limitations notwithstanding.

My problem with this post is that comparing Ocarina of Time to Platinum is silly as hell.

Ocarina of Time was genuinely the inventor of the Adventure Story Game, a genre that is still extremely prevalent today. But it was also fairly ahead of its time, despite how I don't even actually like that game tbh?

But like, it did so much ahead. It holds up really IMO.

Gen 4 was behind on release. I've talked about this many times, but including Platinum but especially DP, were not ahead of their time in technical prowess at all or in game design. Sinnoh's game design is about on par with Kanto's and lower than Johto/Hoenn while its graphics are IMO some of the weakest in the series, especially compared to other JRPGSs on the systmem at the end.

 

[Wukong]

My problem with this post is that comparing Ocarina of Time to Platinum is silly as hell.

Ocarina of Time was genuinely the inventor of the Adventure Story Game, a genre that is still extremely prevalent today. But it was also fairly ahead of its time, despite how I don't even actually like that game tbh?

But like, it did so much ahead. It holds up really IMO.

Gen 4 was behind on release. I've talked about this many times, but including Platinum but especially DP, were not ahead of their time in technical prowess at all or in game design. Sinnoh's game design is about on par with Kanto's and lower than Johto/Hoenn while its graphics are IMO some of the weakest in the series, especially compared to other JRPGSs on the systmem at the end.

The DP point is a bit of a red herring for reasons I've already covered, so refocusing on Platinum -

There's obviously a difference between "comparing" and analogizing as I was in this post. Zelda as a video game franchise is in a different class compared to Pokemon. The former has produced what are widely considered some of the greatest titles in the history of video games; the latter is a casual, beginner friendly JRPG with basic gameplay containing depth one could explore should they so choose. To compare Platinum to OoT at face value would be a little absurd.

But within the confines of their respective franchises their places do mirror one another, in my view. We can go back and forth (as we already have) about things like level design, boss design, art style etc. But the intricate way the map is woven around Mt. Coronet was pretty unprecedented for the time and still hasn't really been topped for me. This post does a good job of explaining it.

A boss like Cynthia (a champion with no overlapping types, good move sets, good AI, reasonable level curve) hadn't been seen before, and is again still in the higher echelons of the franchise design wise.

And graphically HGSS is probably the best in the series, but Platinum is still very solid. They showcased great, never-before-seen depth with the over world 2.5D graphics, without the pixelated slight push over the edge of the Gen 5 games. The sprite work is still incredibly vivid, and locations like the Distortion World and Battle Zone made excellent use of color in being aesthetically intriguing.

Again, games like BW2 and Emerald may end up aging better than Platinum due to their more fluid gameplay. Just as Majora's Mask and Windwaker might due to their unique stories and/or art style. But Platinum to me still represents the quintessential Pokemon journey, in much the same way OoT represents a pure Zelda journey. They may show their wrinkles more quickly, but rightfully deserve their place in the highest rungs of their respective franchises, as many still view them.

 

[ant4456]

But within the confines of their respective franchises their places do mirror one another, in my view. We can go back and forth (as we already have) about things like level design, boss design, art style etc. But the intricate way the map is woven around Mt. Coronet was pretty unprecedented for the time and still hasn't really been topped for me. This post does a good job of explaining it.

I don't agree with this part because I dislike Mt Coronet.

A boss like Cynthia (a champion with no overlapping types, good move sets, good AI, reasonable level curve) hadn't been seen before, and is again still in the higher echelons of the franchise design wise.

I also don't think Cynthia is well-designed as a boss fight or character.

And graphically HGSS is probably the best in the series, but Platinum is still very solid. They showcased great, never-before-seen depth with the over world 2.5D graphics, without the pixelated slight push over the edge of the Gen 5 games. The sprite work is still incredibly vivid, and locations like the Distortion World and Battle Zone made excellent use of color in being aesthetically intriguing.

I also do not think HGSS or Platinum are in the Top 5 artstyles of the series.

Again, games like BW2 and Emerald may end up aging better than Platinum due to their more fluid gameplay. Just as Majora's Mask and Windwaker might due to their unique stories and/or art style. But Platinum to me still represents the quintessential Pokemon journey, in much the same way OoT represents a pure Zelda journey. They may show their wrinkles more quickly, but rightfully deserve their place in the highest rungs of their respective franchises, as many still view them.

Don't agree.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

My problem with this post is that comparing Ocarina of Time to Platinum is silly as hell.

Ocarina of Time was genuinely the inventor of the Adventure Story Game, a genre that is still extremely prevalent today.

You're missing the forest for the trees.

No one is directly comparing OoT to Platinum as games. The comparison made was their impact on their franchises as gold standards and how, in certain ways, despite their impact, they're showing their age.

Also, that second bit is objectively incorrect. The Zelda franchise did not start at OoT. A Link to the Past had a fairly similar structure to it in many ways. The biggest difference is that Ocarina of Time did it in 3D and on an unprecedented scale at the time. Building upon the old games, as Platinum itself did, is one of the reasons Ocarina wound up so iconic.

But Platinum to me still represents the quintessential Pokemon journey, in much the same way OoT represents a pure Zelda journey.

Perfectly said.

There's another layer to this. Pokémon games nowadays have major gimmicks attached to them since XY introduced Megas. SV went a step beyond and made the game open-world. Regardless of how one feels towards it, SV is very different from a traditional Pokémon game. That only reinforces the comparison between OoT and Platinum's impacts on their franchises.