Patrat hasn't been seen in a mainline game in 12 years. Now, finally it's left the Kalos region to show up in the Kalos region.
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Pokémon Presents - Pokémon Day 2025 - Pokemon ZA Info & Pokemon Champions Announced
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
I don't really have much else to comment on the Smogon Legal Situation thingie but I will say that I hope people don't jump the gun as inevitably nothing happens at least for the foreseeable future.
Champions is clearly early in development. We saw no UI, the website has like the trailer + protag Sugimori art. No release date. Basically jack shit.
If they do want to take down Showdown, they're going to try to do the Indiana Jones swap scene by putting their new game up around the same time, which means that realistically for the next while Showdown is fine.
We'll see when Champions actually comes out.
Champions is clearly early in development. We saw no UI, the website has like the trailer + protag Sugimori art. No release date. Basically jack shit.
If they do want to take down Showdown, they're going to try to do the Indiana Jones swap scene by putting their new game up around the same time, which means that realistically for the next while Showdown is fine.
We'll see when Champions actually comes out.
It is fascinating to me that they didn't give it a release date. I assume they want it to be close to Gen 10, but why not just say a generic "Coming 2026" at that point? But also surely it wouldn't be 2027 otherwise why announce it now.
Never mind that, why is this image labelled as Last Crusade when the scene is from Raiders of the Lost Ark?
I'm guessing that it's late 2025 but they don't want to go all in on that, especially since it's also a mobile game and Pokemon mobile games tend to have long betas.
Like Pokemon Unite had like half a year of Beta Testing in China before finally releasing worldwide, ending up taking a full year since announcement.
Side note but "Urbain" and "Taunie", the rivals' names, are literally "urban" and "townie".
Chuckling at the cleverness, even if in this case it's more in-your-face.
Chuckling at the cleverness, even if in this case it's more in-your-face.
I don't know if anyone pointed this out about the designs of the protagonists:
-Both are wearing jackets which have Zygarde's color scheme on them and they have a Hexagon symbol on them like Zygarde cells
-Both are wearing hats, the female protagonist having White hat, and the male protagonist having Black hat
-If you trace out the M shapes on their hats with their hairlines, the female protagonists has an X, and the male protagonist has a Y
-The belt on the female protagonist resembles an X
-The lighter stripes on the male protagonist's jeans resembles a Y
-Both are wearing jackets which have Zygarde's color scheme on them and they have a Hexagon symbol on them like Zygarde cells
-Both are wearing hats, the female protagonist having White hat, and the male protagonist having Black hat
-If you trace out the M shapes on their hats with their hairlines, the female protagonists has an X, and the male protagonist has a Y
-The lighter stripes on the male protagonist's jeans resembles a Y
Thoughts on the presents:
-GO and Masters announced were pretty much known/expected from datamines.
-SynapseChampions looks neat, but a bit disappointing that it's only "in development." Hopefully the goal is indeed to add all mons to it. Depending on scope this seems like it should have been part of HOME to begin with. Otherwise, my biggest hope is that we get neat seasons/tournaments like we used to get in SM and SwSh, like the Halloween themed events or the one that actually used inverse battles.
-Legends ZA is looking good enough to me so far. I hope they will step on the gas with trailers now, especially since they didn't reveal any new mons or megas. Some guy in New Jersey is going to get an advanced copy and dump the game before I'll have a chance to play it anyways, so just inject the new mons into my veins now, please.
-I sure hope that they are actually going to make Eternal Floette available this time around, though I expect it's going to be a postgame quest/gift like Enamorus.
-Several people have already made the fire/ghost emboar joke, and everyone expects grass/fairy meganium. Hopefully the actual types are as surprising as the choice of starters, as long as the surprise is not "no regional forms/split evos, just megas." If there aren't any regional forms/split evos I guess I'd pick Totodile, otherwise the choice will depend on the final evo.
-Although the Kalos trio are not the starters, I still expect they'll get megas, if only because of the conspicuous retconning of Ash-Greninja out of flashbacks in Journeys and SV. Maybe Greninja will get a Charizard-esque treatment and battle-bond greninja will mega evolve into Ash-Greninja (in Champions?) while regular Mega Greninja will have a new design. Or something. I dunno, who can predict the whims of a company brave enough to say "nah, two Johto one Unova"
-GO and Masters announced were pretty much known/expected from datamines.
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-Legends ZA is looking good enough to me so far. I hope they will step on the gas with trailers now, especially since they didn't reveal any new mons or megas. Some guy in New Jersey is going to get an advanced copy and dump the game before I'll have a chance to play it anyways, so just inject the new mons into my veins now, please.
-I sure hope that they are actually going to make Eternal Floette available this time around, though I expect it's going to be a postgame quest/gift like Enamorus.
-Several people have already made the fire/ghost emboar joke, and everyone expects grass/fairy meganium. Hopefully the actual types are as surprising as the choice of starters, as long as the surprise is not "no regional forms/split evos, just megas." If there aren't any regional forms/split evos I guess I'd pick Totodile, otherwise the choice will depend on the final evo.
-Although the Kalos trio are not the starters, I still expect they'll get megas, if only because of the conspicuous retconning of Ash-Greninja out of flashbacks in Journeys and SV. Maybe Greninja will get a Charizard-esque treatment and battle-bond greninja will mega evolve into Ash-Greninja (in Champions?) while regular Mega Greninja will have a new design. Or something. I dunno, who can predict the whims of a company brave enough to say "nah, two Johto one Unova"
TBH, I see us getting Champions before ZA and could see this being either the holdover game or hub game for competitive Pokemon in the forseeable future. Expecting Summer 2025.
With both mobile and switch having it, I see this game actually turning competitive Pokemon mainstream, which will be.... INTERESTING to see. Most gamers can't get into mons due all the barriers to entry, but I don't think that will be the case with this game, especially if they make it easy to create teams. I am curious to see how they will handle competitive team building, monetization, etc. since those are all linked and will likely determine this games success. There are a few options:
- Give the player character and Pokemon a ton of different customization options for cosmetics
- Make Pokemon something you have to reroll or buy with in-game currency that you can speed up with cash
- Lock progression items like nature mints and vitamins behind in-game currency.
I am hoping they make this just as simple as showdown is, but given the potential money involved here, that will be tough to determine.
Competitive Pokemon is already a pretty fun mobile experience given how great showdown feels on my local train ride. Very simple to just randomly build teams on mobile - iffy fatfingering aside - and starting gaming for fun. The lack of any progression systems also adds to its appeal since you just grind it like other games like chess, but I'm not sure whether or not GF will embrace that approach.
I am thinking this game is going to be extremely successful, maybe closer to the popularity of other games like chess, and its gonna get millions of downloads. Gamers have been trying to simulate Pokemon battles since the start of the internet, so players having it on the tips of their finger will get people around the world hooked I think.
If nothing else, it will be nice to actually talk to other strangers about competitive mons than just hiding it since its fairly unpopular lmao.
With both mobile and switch having it, I see this game actually turning competitive Pokemon mainstream, which will be.... INTERESTING to see. Most gamers can't get into mons due all the barriers to entry, but I don't think that will be the case with this game, especially if they make it easy to create teams. I am curious to see how they will handle competitive team building, monetization, etc. since those are all linked and will likely determine this games success. There are a few options:
- Give the player character and Pokemon a ton of different customization options for cosmetics
- Make Pokemon something you have to reroll or buy with in-game currency that you can speed up with cash
- Lock progression items like nature mints and vitamins behind in-game currency.
I am hoping they make this just as simple as showdown is, but given the potential money involved here, that will be tough to determine.
Competitive Pokemon is already a pretty fun mobile experience given how great showdown feels on my local train ride. Very simple to just randomly build teams on mobile - iffy fatfingering aside - and starting gaming for fun. The lack of any progression systems also adds to its appeal since you just grind it like other games like chess, but I'm not sure whether or not GF will embrace that approach.
I am thinking this game is going to be extremely successful, maybe closer to the popularity of other games like chess, and its gonna get millions of downloads. Gamers have been trying to simulate Pokemon battles since the start of the internet, so players having it on the tips of their finger will get people around the world hooked I think.
If nothing else, it will be nice to actually talk to other strangers about competitive mons than just hiding it since its fairly unpopular lmao.
So, basic thoughts on ZA:
I'm a Totodile fan so I'm already winning.
I agree with the guess that we're getting regional Feraligatr/Meganium/Emboar and Mega-Kalos Starters.
The Lumiose map seems really small. I've enjoyed focused open-world(?) games before(Dragon Age 2 and Dead Rising come to mind), but with Pokemon, a series that thrives on variety, I don't see how they pull it off with City streets and 6 smallish parks. I'm open to be surprised, and they could always include "oh it's in the city but also you need to visit the area just outside the north gate with has all the desert mons", but I'm concerned.
The new battle system is interesting. Everyone has speculated on anime-style real-time battles before, so it's not a surprise, but there's a lot of potential pitfalls. My main concern is that controlling the player character and the mon's movement at the same time might be awkward. Also, expect a whole genre of Youtube videos going "I beat Xerneas with just a lvl 5 Patrat!!1!" that are basically just glitching the AI, getting it stuck, and spamming tackle.
My biggest concern with the new battle system is that every fight is going to require more focus and time than they do currently. That's fine for plot-relevant battles that are intended to be challenges, but rough if we're getting swarmed by Zubat and Youngsters every 5 seconds.
The various characters have style. I HOPE we see customization(they have to, right?) so I can take off or change the hats, but everyone LOOKED fun and interesting.
(why are the rivals more stylish than you?)
Mafia Secretary is a wild description.
With Patrat and Furfrou confirmed, we're only missing the Elemental Monkeys from modern releases.
That said, there's a handful of other mons whose only "modern" appearance is BDSP that I'd like to see elsewhere and...maybe?(Clamperl, CASTFORM, Kecleon, Spinda, Skitty, Taillow, Ledyba). I do expect Spearow and Rattatta because Gen 1 and urban, and Pidgey and Beedrill are basically guaranteed because Megas.
Fall release probably means earlier than normal, maybe they want it as a launch title for Switch 2 and that's in October?
I'm a Totodile fan so I'm already winning.
I agree with the guess that we're getting regional Feraligatr/Meganium/Emboar and Mega-Kalos Starters.
If that happens:
Kanto: 3(4) megas, 3 Gmaxes
Johto: 3 regional forms
Hoenn: 3 megas
Sinnoh: Nothing
Unova: 2 regional forms
Kalos: 3 megas, Ash-Greninja
Alola: 1 regional form
Galar: 3 GMax forms
Paldea: Nothing
So that would keep most trios balanced. The real question is WTF is going on with Sinnoh. Between BDSP and Legends:Arceus, there's been plenty of opportunity to do something with them, but they haven't. My guess is that we see the 3 of them get a super-form as part of Gen 10's earliest DLC.
Kanto: 3(4) megas, 3 Gmaxes
Johto: 3 regional forms
Hoenn: 3 megas
Sinnoh: Nothing
Unova: 2 regional forms
Kalos: 3 megas, Ash-Greninja
Alola: 1 regional form
Galar: 3 GMax forms
Paldea: Nothing
So that would keep most trios balanced. The real question is WTF is going on with Sinnoh. Between BDSP and Legends:Arceus, there's been plenty of opportunity to do something with them, but they haven't. My guess is that we see the 3 of them get a super-form as part of Gen 10's earliest DLC.
The new battle system is interesting. Everyone has speculated on anime-style real-time battles before, so it's not a surprise, but there's a lot of potential pitfalls. My main concern is that controlling the player character and the mon's movement at the same time might be awkward. Also, expect a whole genre of Youtube videos going "I beat Xerneas with just a lvl 5 Patrat!!1!" that are basically just glitching the AI, getting it stuck, and spamming tackle.
My biggest concern with the new battle system is that every fight is going to require more focus and time than they do currently. That's fine for plot-relevant battles that are intended to be challenges, but rough if we're getting swarmed by Zubat and Youngsters every 5 seconds.
The various characters have style. I HOPE we see customization(they have to, right?) so I can take off or change the hats, but everyone LOOKED fun and interesting.
(why are the rivals more stylish than you?)
Mafia Secretary is a wild description.
With Patrat and Furfrou confirmed, we're only missing the Elemental Monkeys from modern releases.
That said, there's a handful of other mons whose only "modern" appearance is BDSP that I'd like to see elsewhere and...maybe?(Clamperl, CASTFORM, Kecleon, Spinda, Skitty, Taillow, Ledyba). I do expect Spearow and Rattatta because Gen 1 and urban, and Pidgey and Beedrill are basically guaranteed because Megas.
Fall release probably means earlier than normal, maybe they want it as a launch title for Switch 2 and that's in October?
Allegedly, the game is pay to play, but also requires a nintendo online subscription to use.
I have no clue how the mobile version would work like that (you'd probably just skip the nintendo subscription part) , but having to pay 2 subscriptions + buy the game is already a major deterrent for new players on the switch.
__
Personally excited for the sim but scared at the same time given its not national dex and who knows the pacing of updating it and whether we'd ever see a proper full dex sim. A 6v6 simulator without a 20 minute timer and access to all pokemon including megas would be massive.
But like I mentioned... its a deterrent you have to pay for a subscription to home + pay for champions in an incomplete small dex state + pay for nintendo online when you can just stay on showdown and whatever inevitable format we get based on champions or battle in the cartridges themselves if they have better rosters available.
ZA Im personally not very excited for, at least before the trailer I was invested in the "how is this going to work" perspective, but seeing it looks rather disappointing. I want to explore outside of a city and see different biomes, not one singular town unless this fucking town has its own climate variance on opposite sides. I hope we get more info and that involves leaving the town to see other parts of kalos cause I dont see how there can be much exciting in this 1 city unless looker has a fucking dungeon in his basement.
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Lovely
It will have a much slower UI because it will be a spectacle. You will have to watch lengthy animations every single fight and go through slow loading screens.
You already suggested it would be a freemium app, and I assume ur correct. So I assume this is out of the window. Even if a 6 v 6 mode is offered it will not be viable without a “sleep clause,” ban list that goes deeper than legandaries, evasion clause, OHKO move clause, etc.
Hell, VGC could be much more enjoyable with any sort of tiering or banning of rng abuse, but that’s not coming.
Pokemon already can’t be chess in a literal sense due to the structural nature of the game, but if you wanna be chess you can’t be controlled by a corporation who has to introduce stronger Pokemon every generation to encourage people to buy the game, have a high economic barrier to entry, and refuse to put in real effort to balance the game so a variety of strategies can succeed and you can’t abuse low skill strats like OHKO moves to win
i’ve talked to ppl irl about Showdown, it’s really not stigmatized anymore than discussing any other game aimed at children would be. A lot of guys I know are into that old Smash competitive scene and women love it. It’s not weird anymore
Well cool stuff imo. Yada yada people online complaining about the same stuff - shocker.
Made the starter choice very easily for me fortunately. How nice of them. Maybe we’ll be at least able to battle AZ for fun with Floette this time, but I wouldn’t count on it actually being available.
Stadium Legends could be quite fun.
Made the starter choice very easily for me fortunately. How nice of them. Maybe we’ll be at least able to battle AZ for fun with Floette this time, but I wouldn’t count on it actually being available.
Stadium Legends could be quite fun.
There isn’t a single mobile game worthy of respect. The closest would be games like chess or tetris because they existed before mobile games.
Would you want a wartime president like FDR to know what Clash of Clans is? If he goes home and plays Madden, that’s one thing. Even something mobile game adjacent like Bloons is cutting it close.
Would you want a wartime president like FDR to know what Clash of Clans is? If he goes home and plays Madden, that’s one thing. Even something mobile game adjacent like Bloons is cutting it close.
This Champions game ignites an old fire in me; if it actually does end up adding all the mons perhaps the boys can all be back in town together instead of trapped in the past.
I’m kinda surprised by how many people here and elsewhere are talking about how ‘small’ the map is and how little wild space there is. And I think that’s based in a lot of people assuming that the game will lock us to specific districts with new ones unlocking as we progress.
But we’ve been told from the initial announcement that this game is going to be built around the redevelopment of Lumiose.
Seems pretty clear to me that the entire map we’re seeing with its five small wild areas is the starting point — or the equivalent of just the Obsidian Fieldlands. And as we progress through the game the redevelopment will happen and more and more of the city will be habitable to Pokemon, creating new wild areas, new areas to explore, etc.
Similarly, I really doubt we’ll be doing many adventures outside the city. I think the bulk of the game is going to be exploring the newly built areas of Lumiose as they are finished.
But we’ve been told from the initial announcement that this game is going to be built around the redevelopment of Lumiose.
Seems pretty clear to me that the entire map we’re seeing with its five small wild areas is the starting point — or the equivalent of just the Obsidian Fieldlands. And as we progress through the game the redevelopment will happen and more and more of the city will be habitable to Pokemon, creating new wild areas, new areas to explore, etc.
Similarly, I really doubt we’ll be doing many adventures outside the city. I think the bulk of the game is going to be exploring the newly built areas of Lumiose as they are finished.
Idk i think we could get sleep clause back. It initially appeared in stadium right?
I expect how it will work is there will be rentals. And you can even do some customization. Winning without paying is possible. But some things may be locked behind a paywall whether that's a battle pass or tons of experience where you could instead purchase P Bucks.
Here's your h- samurot it currently knows aqua cutter secret sword aqua jet and like thief or something. Earn x levels for razor shell, x for knock off x for Swords dance and ooooo unfortunately you must have the battle pass to unlock its shiny form or ceaseless edge after 50 levels.
Hahaha really
I expect how it will work is there will be rentals. And you can even do some customization. Winning without paying is possible. But some things may be locked behind a paywall whether that's a battle pass or tons of experience where you could instead purchase P Bucks.
Here's your h- samurot it currently knows aqua cutter secret sword aqua jet and like thief or something. Earn x levels for razor shell, x for knock off x for Swords dance and ooooo unfortunately you must have the battle pass to unlock its shiny form or ceaseless edge after 50 levels.
Hahaha really
Truth be told, this is the hottest take of all-time but whatever, I hope that when Champions comes out that they DMCA Pokemon Showdown. For several reasons in ascending order:
1. The theory that some people smugly hold that Showdown is actually super helpful to Game Freak is bunk. Any time I hear "well people go there to practice for VGC!" remember that you can also practice on cart (easily) and that plenty of people don't even buy the games but play Showdown instead. Which by the way, doesn't help them. Competitive Pokemon is an advertisement for you to buy the game.
2. I want Champions to have an actually big splash. I think Champions will be significantly more important for competitive play long-term and needs to hit the ground running and any muddling of Showdown being there from the start will hurt it a bit. No matter how good (or bad) Champions is, a good number of people who play Showdown just won't bother, and I think that sucks. Champions OU, Champions VGC will be added to the Simulator two frames after the game launches and it'll inevitably cannabilize what I think is much more important long-term.
3. And this is by far the most important one, Pokemon Showdown needs competition. Badly. I've felt this for years now, this simulator is aging poorly and it has unambitious developers. The second the official Showdown is DMCA'd, the source code effect immediately goes into use: A scrappy fight will immediately begin between many individual developers to try to use it and create "The Next Pokemon Showdown", and how will a winner come out on top?
The one that has the best overall experience, leading to likely a much better experience overall, will be the one people eventually settle on. I find Showdown dissatisfactory nowadays. The UI is shit, the formats change on a whim to my distaste, the Suggestions Thread is a desert of "Hey this would take 15 minutes to do but would let me have a lot more fun with it" denied. The visuals haven't been overhauled for years and despite the 3D models existing in GIF form, we have to wait for the "3DS style" (which I don't give a shit for) and to save on compression apparently. And if you criticize this process in the thread about this whole thing it will get you instantly deleted and infracted/banned LMAO
Maybe we'd even get new fucking MP4 files added to the game (for 99.99999% of users, not in SPL!) after like a decade. Or battle backgrounds, which similarly have been absent for like a decade until now SPL got a new one. The fact that people go through that clunky ass browser extension to get a Showdown that looks clean is bad enough, but realize that a lot of people that just want to play this sort of thing occasionally, and they want to do it on their phone. And the phone experience is significantly worse with way less recourse! Yaaaay! What about the fact that any time I open the thing it has the Install on Windows shit even though that is a terrible experience lol.
This is petty AF but I made a suggestion like two years ago now to make it so that the new Scarlet/Violet animated Pokemon would be used for Gen 9 and not replace the 3D models for the old 3D Pokemon games, kinda like how every oldgen that isn't 3D has its own art assets, but that was also denied. Do you know how this works by the way? It's a fucking Folder of assets that you'd need to copy and paste the new assets to, and then you'd change it so Gen 9 formats use that new one. This is because starting with Gen 6, instead of making a new asset folder each generation they decided to just make an "ani" folder for the 3D GIFs which is what has been used for all gens since, so when a Pokemon is updated to its new animations expect it to be that in every 3D gen. So many cool suggestions (much cooler than mine, to be honest) are also denied. Add old formats like SWSH / SVs with different DLCs to the builder? Years of waiting to get bumped and still no reply. And frankly, we all know the likely answer. The Closed Suggestions forum has a lot of good / cool features that could make the simulator more interesting, or the bajillions of Pending suggestions, especially if you're like me who kind of views Showdown's casual side as a "Playground of Competitive Pokemon", but I guess that isn't a shared view. Then there's the ones that go against the (shitty) views of how the simulator should work. Someone suggested to let people add Pokemon to their avatars which is such a cool idea that is rejected because the Tournament Community needs their Scrimblo Prizes because we can't actually just do good prize pools like a normal competitive scene. Same with other rejected things about avatars. Fuck the 99.999% of users because like 500 people's main prize for playing competitively is an anime girl sprite.
How many suggestions are met with "Sorry that system was made 10 years ago and we, the programmers, can't program new systems to replace it" Rejections. Playing Pokemon Showdown with a controller? Sorry, too much work! Remember that before the Dead Cats thing happened, Gen 9 National Dex AG never got Dynamax because it would be a pain to code or whatever, and that instead of just banning Dynamax from normal formats we had to codify a "None of those gimmicks because nuh-uh we are Gen 7+". What if I wanted to do some cool shit with custom rulesets? Is that not one of the biggest advantages Showdown will have compared to this type of competitor? Want sound notifications? Fuck you bandwidth. Want a bot to play against? No, and if you ask it again we'll link the other threads where we also denied it even though it was a good idea.
I could go through practically hundreds of cool suggestions, but of course not all of them can get added. That's normal. However I'd argue there is more time spent denying or actively ignoring suggestions by the dozen than it'd actually take to implement at least a few more.
However, I think I really came to terms with the fact that Showdown is heavily stagnating after talks of adding a Placement Match system a few months ago (or a similar system) (also being talked about in a now inactive Policy Review thread too) to the Ladder was something I looked into with developer opinions and the response was basically "No one here knows how to code that shit right now and it'd be a lot of work to make a new system". Personally, I believe that if something is worth doing it probably takes a lot of work, and if it takes a DMCA to let some random people do their thing instead and revamp everything I'd prefer that. If the systems are so old and depreciated that no one fucking knows how to use them, then you need to get more people on the team who actually do know how to use it or to straight-up remath and redo it because this is how something like this deteriorates over time until no one can actually do anything and good ideas are just cooked.
The Showdown devs do a lot of work but it's mostly status quo work and maintenance rather than actually pushing the simulator forward into the 2020s. This site looks like it was designed long ago. Because it was. But there's so much better shit you can do. I want Showdown to have competition, and this would be the easiest way for it to start that process. Sometimes when a project goes on this long you need the kind of young blood that has the time and energy to make bigger changes and the type of hunger to stay on top, none of which Current Showdown has, or likely will have for the foreseeable future. Without Champions, I think it'd be somewhat inevitable that eventually a VGC-targeted simulator would pop up eventually (with accurate Timer for more accurate matches, better support for old VGC ladders, built in other targeted QoL, looking actually good and working well on mobile, etc.) taking a massive chunk out of Showdown and creating real competition in the space again...
But I'm down for a little accelerationism.
1. The theory that some people smugly hold that Showdown is actually super helpful to Game Freak is bunk. Any time I hear "well people go there to practice for VGC!" remember that you can also practice on cart (easily) and that plenty of people don't even buy the games but play Showdown instead. Which by the way, doesn't help them. Competitive Pokemon is an advertisement for you to buy the game.
2. I want Champions to have an actually big splash. I think Champions will be significantly more important for competitive play long-term and needs to hit the ground running and any muddling of Showdown being there from the start will hurt it a bit. No matter how good (or bad) Champions is, a good number of people who play Showdown just won't bother, and I think that sucks. Champions OU, Champions VGC will be added to the Simulator two frames after the game launches and it'll inevitably cannabilize what I think is much more important long-term.
3. And this is by far the most important one, Pokemon Showdown needs competition. Badly. I've felt this for years now, this simulator is aging poorly and it has unambitious developers. The second the official Showdown is DMCA'd, the source code effect immediately goes into use: A scrappy fight will immediately begin between many individual developers to try to use it and create "The Next Pokemon Showdown", and how will a winner come out on top?
The one that has the best overall experience, leading to likely a much better experience overall, will be the one people eventually settle on. I find Showdown dissatisfactory nowadays. The UI is shit, the formats change on a whim to my distaste, the Suggestions Thread is a desert of "Hey this would take 15 minutes to do but would let me have a lot more fun with it" denied. The visuals haven't been overhauled for years and despite the 3D models existing in GIF form, we have to wait for the "3DS style" (which I don't give a shit for) and to save on compression apparently. And if you criticize this process in the thread about this whole thing it will get you instantly deleted and infracted/banned LMAO
Maybe we'd even get new fucking MP4 files added to the game (for 99.99999% of users, not in SPL!) after like a decade. Or battle backgrounds, which similarly have been absent for like a decade until now SPL got a new one. The fact that people go through that clunky ass browser extension to get a Showdown that looks clean is bad enough, but realize that a lot of people that just want to play this sort of thing occasionally, and they want to do it on their phone. And the phone experience is significantly worse with way less recourse! Yaaaay! What about the fact that any time I open the thing it has the Install on Windows shit even though that is a terrible experience lol.
This is petty AF but I made a suggestion like two years ago now to make it so that the new Scarlet/Violet animated Pokemon would be used for Gen 9 and not replace the 3D models for the old 3D Pokemon games, kinda like how every oldgen that isn't 3D has its own art assets, but that was also denied. Do you know how this works by the way? It's a fucking Folder of assets that you'd need to copy and paste the new assets to, and then you'd change it so Gen 9 formats use that new one. This is because starting with Gen 6, instead of making a new asset folder each generation they decided to just make an "ani" folder for the 3D GIFs which is what has been used for all gens since, so when a Pokemon is updated to its new animations expect it to be that in every 3D gen. So many cool suggestions (much cooler than mine, to be honest) are also denied. Add old formats like SWSH / SVs with different DLCs to the builder? Years of waiting to get bumped and still no reply. And frankly, we all know the likely answer. The Closed Suggestions forum has a lot of good / cool features that could make the simulator more interesting, or the bajillions of Pending suggestions, especially if you're like me who kind of views Showdown's casual side as a "Playground of Competitive Pokemon", but I guess that isn't a shared view. Then there's the ones that go against the (shitty) views of how the simulator should work. Someone suggested to let people add Pokemon to their avatars which is such a cool idea that is rejected because the Tournament Community needs their Scrimblo Prizes because we can't actually just do good prize pools like a normal competitive scene. Same with other rejected things about avatars. Fuck the 99.999% of users because like 500 people's main prize for playing competitively is an anime girl sprite.
How many suggestions are met with "Sorry that system was made 10 years ago and we, the programmers, can't program new systems to replace it" Rejections. Playing Pokemon Showdown with a controller? Sorry, too much work! Remember that before the Dead Cats thing happened, Gen 9 National Dex AG never got Dynamax because it would be a pain to code or whatever, and that instead of just banning Dynamax from normal formats we had to codify a "None of those gimmicks because nuh-uh we are Gen 7+". What if I wanted to do some cool shit with custom rulesets? Is that not one of the biggest advantages Showdown will have compared to this type of competitor? Want sound notifications? Fuck you bandwidth. Want a bot to play against? No, and if you ask it again we'll link the other threads where we also denied it even though it was a good idea.
I could go through practically hundreds of cool suggestions, but of course not all of them can get added. That's normal. However I'd argue there is more time spent denying or actively ignoring suggestions by the dozen than it'd actually take to implement at least a few more.
However, I think I really came to terms with the fact that Showdown is heavily stagnating after talks of adding a Placement Match system a few months ago (or a similar system) (also being talked about in a now inactive Policy Review thread too) to the Ladder was something I looked into with developer opinions and the response was basically "No one here knows how to code that shit right now and it'd be a lot of work to make a new system". Personally, I believe that if something is worth doing it probably takes a lot of work, and if it takes a DMCA to let some random people do their thing instead and revamp everything I'd prefer that. If the systems are so old and depreciated that no one fucking knows how to use them, then you need to get more people on the team who actually do know how to use it or to straight-up remath and redo it because this is how something like this deteriorates over time until no one can actually do anything and good ideas are just cooked.
The Showdown devs do a lot of work but it's mostly status quo work and maintenance rather than actually pushing the simulator forward into the 2020s. This site looks like it was designed long ago. Because it was. But there's so much better shit you can do. I want Showdown to have competition, and this would be the easiest way for it to start that process. Sometimes when a project goes on this long you need the kind of young blood that has the time and energy to make bigger changes and the type of hunger to stay on top, none of which Current Showdown has, or likely will have for the foreseeable future. Without Champions, I think it'd be somewhat inevitable that eventually a VGC-targeted simulator would pop up eventually (with accurate Timer for more accurate matches, better support for old VGC ladders, built in other targeted QoL, looking actually good and working well on mobile, etc.) taking a massive chunk out of Showdown and creating real competition in the space again...
But I'm down for a little accelerationism.
So I don't think anyone has made a list for this yet so thought I would.
Pokemon Seen in the Pokemon ZA Trailer + Extended Look:
Skiddo (Gogoat)
Mareep (Flaaffy & Ampharos + Mega)
Sliggoo (Goomy, Goodra)
Clauncher (Clawitzer)
Furfrou (There is minor background art of at least 1 of the "Cut" Formes as well)
Sandile (Korokorok, Krookodile)
Starters - Totodile, Tepig & Chikorita
Bunnelby (Diggersby)
Fletchling (Talonflame, Fletchinder - Map Image)
Scatterbug (Spewpa, Vivillon)
Pyroar (Litleo)
Lucario (+Mega)
Mega - Kangaskhan, Absol, Sableye, Altaria, Charizard Y, Ampharos, Gyarados, Charizard X, Gardevoir)
Gardevoir (Kirlia - Map image)
Eternal Floette - Humourously memed by Pokemon themselves
Zygarde 10%
Budew (Roserade)
Florges (Statue and later team image, Flabebe - Map Image))
Eevee (Jolteon, Flareon, Vaporeon, Sylveon, Glaceon, Umbreon)
Patrat
Pikachu (Raichu)
Bellsprout (Weepinbell, Victreebel)
Larvitar
Bagon
Aegislash (Honedge - Map Image)
Trubbish (Garbodor)
Chandelure
Magikarp (Gyarados)
Swablu (Altaria + Mega)
Swirlix (Slupuff)
Spritzee (Aromatisse)
Hippowdon
Pidgeotto (Pidgeot, Pidgey - Map Image)
Onix
Dragalge
Dedenne
Inkay
Zygarde Cell
Houndoom
Hawlucha
Staryu
Meowstic (Both F &M)
EDIT: I FORGOT THE MAP - Added those mons too
In most instances I've logged the first sighting of a family first - but probably safe to say if a family is shown, all evolutions are probably available.
I'd probably also lean towards all the megas being available as well (which means the other Kanto Starters [Venusaur/Blastoise], Alakazam, Gengar, Pinsir, Aerodactly, Mewtwo [Who already exists within Kalos], Scizor, Heracross, The Hoenn Starters [Sceptile, Blaziken and Swampert], Mawile, Aggron, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, The Lati Twins [Latias/Latios], Garchomp, Abomasnow, Beedrill, Slowbro, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Glalie, Metagross, Rayquaza [This one is the least likely imo], Lopunny, Audino and Diancie) may also show up. The Megas they've shown have been a mix of "Original" and "Hoenn" megas, so will be interesting to see.
I'm interested in how the UI works as well, the "C+"? tags on the Mega's moves might make them act differently to the moves normally when not in Mega as well. Timers for megas makes sense from a "Real Time Battle" format. It doesn't look like using moves speeds up the timer or anything like that so I would assume that most megas just last for 60 seconds or something and then go away. I do wonder how you charge that meter though, or whether it is like Tera and gets recharged when you heal.
Overall I'm interested in the direction LZA has taken, the art style reminds me of New Pokemon Snap (which is probably the best looking game they've done) and I like that the characters have taken on that style of animation. More of that going forwards please!
All I want out of Champions is good PvE content. If its PvP only, it'll just be a pass from me. I've never been one to be mad about the Battle Facilities, but with the steps they have made to make "Competitive" Pokemon easier to produce, it would be nice to be able to use them somewhere. Restricted Sparring back in the SwSh DLC is the last "proper" facility we've had. Just a shame we won't ever see the Minigames again a la Stadium 1/2.
Pokemon Seen in the Pokemon ZA Trailer + Extended Look:
Skiddo (Gogoat)
Mareep (Flaaffy & Ampharos + Mega)
Sliggoo (Goomy, Goodra)
Clauncher (Clawitzer)
Furfrou (There is minor background art of at least 1 of the "Cut" Formes as well)
Sandile (Korokorok, Krookodile)
Starters - Totodile, Tepig & Chikorita
Bunnelby (Diggersby)
Fletchling (Talonflame, Fletchinder - Map Image)
Scatterbug (Spewpa, Vivillon)
Pyroar (Litleo)
Lucario (+Mega)
Mega - Kangaskhan, Absol, Sableye, Altaria, Charizard Y, Ampharos, Gyarados, Charizard X, Gardevoir)
Gardevoir (Kirlia - Map image)
Eternal Floette - Humourously memed by Pokemon themselves
Zygarde 10%
Budew (Roserade)
Florges (Statue and later team image, Flabebe - Map Image))
Eevee (Jolteon, Flareon, Vaporeon, Sylveon, Glaceon, Umbreon)
Patrat
Pikachu (Raichu)
Bellsprout (Weepinbell, Victreebel)
Larvitar
Bagon
Aegislash (Honedge - Map Image)
Trubbish (Garbodor)
Chandelure
Magikarp (Gyarados)
Swablu (Altaria + Mega)
Swirlix (Slupuff)
Spritzee (Aromatisse)
Hippowdon
Pidgeotto (Pidgeot, Pidgey - Map Image)
Onix
Dragalge
Dedenne
Inkay
Zygarde Cell
Houndoom
Hawlucha
Staryu
Meowstic (Both F &M)
EDIT: I FORGOT THE MAP - Added those mons too
In most instances I've logged the first sighting of a family first - but probably safe to say if a family is shown, all evolutions are probably available.
I'd probably also lean towards all the megas being available as well (which means the other Kanto Starters [Venusaur/Blastoise], Alakazam, Gengar, Pinsir, Aerodactly, Mewtwo [Who already exists within Kalos], Scizor, Heracross, The Hoenn Starters [Sceptile, Blaziken and Swampert], Mawile, Aggron, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, The Lati Twins [Latias/Latios], Garchomp, Abomasnow, Beedrill, Slowbro, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Glalie, Metagross, Rayquaza [This one is the least likely imo], Lopunny, Audino and Diancie) may also show up. The Megas they've shown have been a mix of "Original" and "Hoenn" megas, so will be interesting to see.
I'm interested in how the UI works as well, the "C+"? tags on the Mega's moves might make them act differently to the moves normally when not in Mega as well. Timers for megas makes sense from a "Real Time Battle" format. It doesn't look like using moves speeds up the timer or anything like that so I would assume that most megas just last for 60 seconds or something and then go away. I do wonder how you charge that meter though, or whether it is like Tera and gets recharged when you heal.
Overall I'm interested in the direction LZA has taken, the art style reminds me of New Pokemon Snap (which is probably the best looking game they've done) and I like that the characters have taken on that style of animation. More of that going forwards please!
All I want out of Champions is good PvE content. If its PvP only, it'll just be a pass from me. I've never been one to be mad about the Battle Facilities, but with the steps they have made to make "Competitive" Pokemon easier to produce, it would be nice to be able to use them somewhere. Restricted Sparring back in the SwSh DLC is the last "proper" facility we've had. Just a shame we won't ever see the Minigames again a la Stadium 1/2.
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With the UI, I'm really hoping it's gonna get changed still since I think it's a bit ugly. I think you're probably right though with Megas. Maybe that's how they'll do stuff like Mega Kangaskhan?
I watched the trailer again with fresh eyes since I was busy yesterday and I'm a bit worried about how the movement of the protagonist will feel, the camera and in general they look a bit clunky. SV had surprisingly good movement (discounting lag) and PLA was pretty good too, so I'm a bit concerned, but honestly maybe it'll still be good. It's kinda funny to me that despite all the problems in "Pokemon's Rough Transition to ActionRPG" the movement has had zero misses yet.
It's like I was saying yesterday, I know a lot of people won't be cool with just "You can get your pockets ran in Ranked!", especially if they don't have Home.
It's a really easy layup to make this the grand return of features like the Gym Leader Castle, PWT, and Battle Frontier.
Speaking of which, this might be a bit frowned upon, but does anyone know how one could get mons from emulators to Home? My Switch got deep-fried by a power surge and uh...
Yeah, nah, I ain't buying one again, not with the Switch 2 around the corner
I think they'll have PvE content but I don't think it'll be a lot. I think it'll be like TCG Pocket which has some missions that are mostly teaching basic concepts and to let you toy with your teams, but not like, the Battle FrontierIt's like I was saying yesterday, I know a lot of people won't be cool with just "You can get your pockets ran in Ranked!", especially if they don't have Home.
It's a really easy layup to make this the grand return of features like the Gym Leader Castle, PWT, and Battle Frontier.
Speaking of which, this might be a bit frowned upon, but does anyone know how one could get mons from emulators to Home? My Switch got deep-fried by a power surge and uh...
View attachment 717738
Yeah, nah, I ain't buying one again, not with the Switch 2 around the corner
I also think there will be a way to get Pokemon, and I think they'll actually give most competitive Pokemon as freebies. After all, in both TCG and VGC they've done many events of reprinting winning cards or events to get a competitive Pokemon from VGC. But I think the allure will be deeper customization and the ability to use *your* Pokemon, and to get more than just the standards.