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Unpopular opinions

to push the point home: there are people in the PMD community who weren't alive when explorers of sky came out that love explorers of sky

and I wasn't alive for Pokemon Colosseum myself (though I am not that fond of that game, you get the picture)

these games didn't suddenly stop getting picked up by new players when the DS died and companies stopped tracking or reporting their sales numbers, and if anything them being good enough to be talked about 15 years later guarantees they will continue being played by people and the cycle will continue
 
Mad Ram said:
Ok, changing my thoughts. Maybe just MD fans are obnoxious as a general rule and that's why EoS advocates are like that.
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no your take just sucks and is the least charitable take you could have on media

you don't care for the game so you worked backwards to find a reason that, if it has to be mid, why do people seem to love it? so your reasoning is that clearly not enough people have played it, because if they did there'd be more people that think it's mid than people that love it.

in actuality, it's a game a lot of people have played, and it's a good game

do you know how many games that are mid that sold 10 million + copies no one gives a shit about 15 years later? if people still care about it it's because the game has the sauce. your take just sucks

edit: "Eos advocates" is so fucking funny bc no one has to "advocate" for a very popular game that most people understand to be a cult classic LMAO. it's just another way you are downplaying it for no reason, no one says "Mario Kart advocate" for people that just like Mario Kart
 
Bakugames said:
I think the gameplay of pmd games are better than their story tbh
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I disagree to an extant as it suffers from being repetitive late game, but I have another hot take

I do not like Wands in Super/RTDX. Long range moves are busted in general in PMD, so the player not needing to sacrifice TMs for it BUT spamming easily found items breaks the curve. It doesn't help that they removed the basic attack, so they really pressure you to use items, even for close ranged enemies. It's even weirder cuz GTI already made early moves like Ember suddenly long range, with the ability to pass through teammates without hurting them

I also find IQ Groups in Explorers/Wiiware dumb as shit. Similarly, I find Explorer's friend level rate curve worse than OG RT's

Like I get it, grinding multiple mon's IQ is tedious, but I feel simply having a "Tutor" IQ skill or even a post game NPC "school" would help. Make it stackable if multiple members have the Tutor skill, bam

Similarly, I feel PMD can take from mainline in having one grow berries, a hub world that's interactive as you go through the game besides simply talking to NPCs. And then take from Shiren in finding random ally mons in dungeons that aren't Kec, either for temp alliance, requests, or trading/selling something Kec doesn't have

I dunno, I feel they can do more gameplay wise, but they admitted by Super that the series' draw (turning into a mon isekai'd) they ran out of ideas for
 
Lol, lmao. You have really contorted what I said into something I didn't. I enjoyed the MD series. I enjoyed Colosseum and XD, but I find that their presence in the fandom as "le best games of all time" is as a vocal minority, and a bunch of people who've never played them repeat it uncritically and often in an incredibly annoying manner. That's why I use the sales figures, because it implies that more people in the fandom haven't touched them. Even with emulators, that number I doubt is much higher. Even the figures you posted about DS piracy drops off sharply after that with numbers 10 and 11 at 306K and 201K respectively and 17 at not even 90K. This for a series whose prime sales figure in the modern era is roughly equivalent to Pokken Tournament does not bode well. It quite frankly is not a popular series. And frankly, someone in that niche a fandom will have a distorted idea of how popular it is based on being in it. This isn't even just at those games. I find the Orre Games, EoS, and Conquest are the ones most guilty of this. It's a lot like how people were clamoring for a new Snap game and heaped all sorts of praise on it only to forget about it once the sequel came out.

You like EoS? Fine. I have no problem with that, but I'm not talking about you.
 
Sonikku A said:
I do not like Wands in Super/RTDX. Long range moves are busted in general in PMD, so the player not needing to sacrifice TMs for it BUT spamming easily found items breaks the curve. It doesn't help that they removed the basic attack, so they really pressure you to use items, even for close ranged enemies. It's even weirder cuz GTI already made early moves like Ember suddenly long range, with the ability to pass through teammates without hurting them
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I agree for RTDX but not Super

Part of why RTDX is my least favorite game ever is they ported SMD's engine with RT's balancing which is completely different. PSMD is balanced more like a Shiren game, that is to say, items > your main party members. The game throws items at you and lots of them very powerful because you're a Smol Pokemon that doesn't have the base stats.

In most PMDs, your starter Pokemon actually have Legendary Pokemon statlines while in Super you have normal statlines. You don't get the free Protagonist Buff nor do you get easy leveling, so you are supposed to use items to get out of bad situations and IMO it's great, and it's why I think SMD has the best gameplay in the series. It makes me feel like I'm actually defeating Pokemon way stronger than the protagonists by making decisions (spending item slots and resources and min-maxxing income outcome) compared to say, EoS, where I can just spam STAB on not-very-effective targets and I'll win 90% of the time
 
Mad Ram said:
Lol, lmao. You have really contorted what I said into something I didn't. I enjoyed the MD series. I enjoyed Colosseum and XD, but I find that their presence in the fandom as "le best games of all time" is as a vocal minority, and a bunch of people who've never played them repeat it uncritically and often in an incredibly annoying manner. That's why I use the sales figures, because it implies that more people in the fandom haven't touched them. Even with emulators, that number I doubt is much higher. Even the figures you posted about DS piracy drops off sharply after that with numbers 10 and 11 at 306K and 201K respectively and 17 at not even 90K. This for a series whose prime sales figure in the modern era is roughly equivalent to Pokken Tournament does not bode well. It quite frankly is not a popular series. And frankly, someone in that niche a fandom will have a distorted idea of how popular it is based on being in it. This isn't even just at those games. I find the Orre Games, EoS, and Conquest are the ones most guilty of this. It's a lot like how people were clamoring for a new Snap game and heaped all sorts of praise on it only to forget about it once the sequel came out.

You like EoS? Fine. I have no problem with that, but I'm not talking about you.
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Yeah your point is wrong because people never stopped playing the games and in fact more people have emulated any of the games you've talked about than have bought them. By a lot.

RTDX sales do not reflect EoS popularity that doesn't logic. Most PMD fans don't care that much about RTDX in the first place, let alone it being a remake of probably the most midtier entry in the series. EoS is the most popular PMD by far. PMD fanbase has its own disagreements and there's a lot of people who think PMD after EoS isn't good. EoS is significantly more popular than every other PMD combined and it's not even really close.

The Orre games also are being played by 90% people who weren't born when the games came out. Of course the sales numbers do not reflect how much people have actually played it.

The year is 2025. People don't buy DS games. I was like 14 when I emulated Explorers of Sky and if you were born after the game came out, you could be 15 years old. Your math doesn't track to the reality that is that games are not static, and the classics of the medium is largely played post-mortem through emulation that we will probably never have accurate numbers for.
 
Bakugames said:
I think the mystery dungeon format is one of those whos grind i enjoy the most, so I dont mind it. its relaxing to me in a way, if that makes sense. cocomelon for the brain
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I feel this with the midgames for RT / EoS especially

I make it a fun game to see how many quests I can clear out in one game, profit, stuff
 
Yung Dramps said:
I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years
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I'm hoping the inverse happens with Pokemon Conquest when they eventually do DS NSO, I saw a lot of people trying Nobunaga's Ambition in the SNES NSO and want that for the Pokemon version of it, lmao. I think Conquest is legitimately a very good game but I'm also not even remotely surprised it sold terribly outside of Japan, tactics games weren't exactly popular back then anyway.

ant4456 said:
mystery dungeon is great
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The thing I appreciate the most about pokemon mystery dungeon is that, also like Pokemon Conquest, it's a double spinoff. They took a series made by a particular dev and had a lot of the same developers make that series again but with a Pokemon coat of paint over it. So whether you are an original dragon quest mystery dungeon fan, original nobunaga's ambition fan, or pokemon fan you get something out of these spinoffs.

granted I have no idea how many fans of pokemon mystery dungeon even know about the other mystery dungeons whether from dragon quest or just all over the psp and vita.
 
CynicalGiant said:
The thing I appreciate the most about pokemon mystery dungeon is that, also like Pokemon Conquest, it's a double spinoff. They took a series made by a particular dev and had a lot of the same developers make that series again but with a Pokemon coat of paint over it. So whether you are an original dragon quest mystery dungeon fan, original nobunaga's ambition fan, or pokemon fan you get something out of these spinoffs.

granted I have no idea how many fans of pokemon mystery dungeon even know about the other mystery dungeons whether from dragon quest or just all over the psp and vita.
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I've tried Shiren 5 and Chocobo Mystery Dungeon, not into DQ so never tried that one

I'll maybe try Shiren 6 someday, not any time soon, Chocobo was kinda fun

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Yung Dramps said:
I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years, especially the former.
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I don't know if I agree with this entirely? With complaints of game speed, I definitely understand - it's pretty grueling to play sessions of these games when you start to feel how long each turn takes and track how many loops the battle theme has done in fights that take place before you leave the second town. But gameplay wise, the games hold up quite decently overall to me. An understated part of the orre games is how decently they work as a self-contained entity. The Orre games can reasonably be approached as just A Couple Weird GameCube RPGs, relatively unconcerned with things like pokedex completion and building up a player for postgame PvP / PvE the way the main series is. The focus stays narrow - snag Shadow Pokemon, grind to purify them if you like, battle from linear story beat to linear story beat. The slow engine is thankfully somewhat offset by the games being pretty short, especially Colosseum. For players jumping in with no prior context, if they have a bit of time and patience, I could see this game being quite appreciated.

So much of what I see players complain about in the Orre games is based on comparison to the modern game standards for movepools and Pokemon design. There's cases where I can't help but agree - I wouldn't die on the hill that stuff like the non-evolving Colo Yanma or XD Nosepass are even remotely usable - but watching players that are experienced with the main series stick their noses up at whole swathes of these games' rosters feels like watching a snob turn their nose up at a nice, if bland, cooked meal while at a camp site because they're mad nobody is preparing them an opulent 4 course meal topped with caviar. The game is giving you completely functional tools. If you are nothing without 80+ BP STABs off of your better attacking stat, you probably don't deserve them. Learn to live with an iota of friction between your present and your potential ideal. Engage with the world as it is.

Tangent, Pokemon Conquest. It is so cool but it is also so bad. The units and the maps both try to be fun and gimmicky but in overlaying those gameplay wrinkles something like 70% of the game is rendered unusably clunky at worst and obsolete under the shadow of a handful of reliably broken Warlord + Pokemon combos at best. The overworld mirco management is whatever, I can handle it as a series holdover, but the battles themselves suck. If you go into them with a statistical trump card, you just need to not get hosed by RNG and slowly make blatant moves or hope a map hazard doesn't make things randomly take 5 more turns to resolve than they should have. If a fight is close enough to require actual strategy, your room to leverage player control can be extremely stunted by the small amount of options. It's simultaneously too easy to break over your knee and unfun to play when you unoptimize your play to make things close instead.
 
Inversely Colo focusing entirely on Snag battles means it doesn't have much to do compared to the immediate Gen 3 games at the time. It was a negative point reviewers had back then, alongside human assets being worse than mon ones
It's pretty archaic for the time, and moreso now, all ignoring the game balance issues

XD is a much better game, but people are mad it isn't as edgy
 
VGC should allow Mythical Pokémon.

I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.

Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.

Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
 
Sadly said edgy protag has the personality of cardboard like mainline the moment you can move him
0 motivation to betray Snagem, plays by the rules effectively despite using a bomb in the intro, and XD devs admitting that they were gonna randomly make him an evil post boss but scrapped gets me. Then Rui has the personality of a metal detector

Michael suffers from blobface, but he remotely has story motivation, and isn't animated like shit

I've seen people mad that XD has a harbor and some vegetated areas despite...Colo also doing this
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It never was 100% Arizona desert
 
DreamPrince said:
VGC should allow Mythical Pokémon.

I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.

Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.

Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
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Also the fact that events early on required going to real places in person, which could legitimately be difficult for a child depending on the context. Nowadays most (if not all?) event Pokémon are distributed online so their only excuse is the fact that the events are timed. And that can also be fixed by making Myhtical Pokémon permanently available, which they've started doing like you said.
 
ant4456 said:
im gonna let you in on a secret. i do not know a single person who has played explorers of sky before like 2012, of like 20 people I know that have played it.
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I did, I got it when it came out.
DreamPrince said:
VGC should allow Mythical Pokémon.

I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.

Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.

Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
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Celebi shouldn't be on that list, people cannot obtain copies of VC Crystal anymore with the 3DS eshop shutdown.
 
AztecCroc said:
I did, I got it when it came out.

Celebi shouldn't be on that list, people cannot obtain copies of VC Crystal anymore with the 3DS eshop shutdown.
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My point is that you can still obtain Celebi should you have VC Crystal and Pokebank before the shutdown, so I still consider it fair .
 
Even if you didn't have VC Crystal you can still also obtain Celebi by way of the special research they did for it in Go. Obviously takes a while to complete but it's 100% available.
 
Sonikku A said:
XD devs admitting that they were gonna randomly make him an evil post boss but scrapped gets me. Then Rui has the personality of a metal detector
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I've never seen this substantiated or the interview/dev note where this was cited, only hearsay from some old Playthrough video coverage that did not itself provide the source and instead is usually what was cited by others.
 
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