I'm really surprised we haven't had another Gen 2/Gen 3 break in all this time(and presumably Home means we won't). Dexit was the closest, and they reset movesets automatically now, but the mons survive.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Which is not only good, but also an industry standard. Assuming the assets are good, of course.
For example, no one really questions the quality of the 3D models for mons. They argue, rightfully so, about the animations, which have some real stinkers, especially the idle ones.
I don't think it's correct at all to say that modern Pokemon games are running on a "similar engine" as gen 4. Core game logic and data structures haven't changed much but that's not really what people are talking about when they say "engine."
Tbh the break between gens 2 and 3 is more due to hardware limitations than game design. People have homebrewed up some solutions to bridge that gap, but it requires custom hardware to do the actual link. Game Freak themselves implemented a transfer method for those older games for the Virtual Console.
People need to stop talking exclusively about the mainline games when talking about "The Best Generation of Pokémon", because just the mainline games as a whole don't paint an accurate picture of the era.
Like if people took into account the anime, Gen 5 would have been seen as overrated a year or two ago, and Gen 6,7, and 9 would have been viewed more positively.
Like if people took into account the anime, Gen 5 would have been seen as overrated a year or two ago, and Gen 6,7, and 9 would have been viewed more positively.
I don't think I've seen a single episode of the Pokemon anime produced after its first year on US television.
When people say "This gen was the best one", I don't think all of them are actually seeking to argue "This era of Pokémon was the greatest in every medium". Those two angles (mainline games only, and every piece of media) are both valid topics of discussion on their own, and depending on the context one can tell whether that given person is arguing the former or the latter. I also think it's fair to want to focus on the games, or any individual aspect of the franchise for that matter, as interests for the games, anime, TCG etc can vary.
Now, if the conversation really shifts to describing what each gen did for the franchise overall and/or how it felt like being a Pokémon fan in those different eras and experiencing its different pieces of media, not just the games, then said person would need to look at the anime and stuff to try and argue their points.
Part of your post highlights that "only talking about the mainline games doesn't paint an accurate picture of that era". I reckon this takes the focus more towards gauging popularity or community consensus, than actually presenting one's opinion on why X or Y is the best.
To re-use the example you listed, you could meet someone who genuinely thinks the Unova anime was great ; maybe their arguments won't all hold water, but their stance isn't necessarily invalid outright. The reverse is true as well for someone who dislikes the XY anime but loves the games.
Both of these hypothetical people are in the minority, but what matters most isn't really what their stance is and how it matches up with the consensus, but more so how they go about explaining how they feel.
I have seen episodes of post-Indigo Pokemon anime. Still, this post does point to how fascinatingly funny it is that even though Ash was the main character of the Pokemon anime for so long, the vast majority of his show past the original series is really obscure and niche. Even nowadays in the streaming service era most of it is lost to time, and you're rarely going to find anyone with in-depth knowledge of what happened in Ash's story past the Ash/Misty/Brock era.
Journeys is the only Ash-era season that's easily accessible besides OS nowadays, since it's on Netflix, and I imagine Pokemon GO and Goh's existence combined with Ash finally getting his big win and being allowed to leave have made that season more memorable in a way, but everything that came in-between? No shot. You're gonna be hard-pressed to find it anywhere, and ask your average layperson about anything that happened between the original series and Journeys...and they probably won't know much. There's some shot a person might know about, say, Serena or Dawn, but even those two don't reach the pop culture level of iconic that Ash's OGs did.
And frankly I don't blame anyone for the fact that things turned out that way. Most of the stuff that came between Gens 3 and 7 for Ashnime ranges from bland and boring at best to borderline unwatchable at worst. You could cut a very significant portion of Ash's 1000+ episodes in the show out of existence and lose absolutely nothing in the process. Ash staying that long and a lot of his show being an endless tango of mediocrity dropped his reputation into the gutter. I grew up in the Gen 4 era but back in my middle and high school days in the 2010s I would sometimes talk about Ash with my IRLs and the conversation would always boil down to "Yeah the show sucks lol" and making fun of Ash.
Which is to say, I'm glad that Ash's run on the show is finally over. I enjoyed Journeys, and I'm glad they finally ended him there. Horizons is the first series of the anime that stars a new protagonist, and Liko is genuinely a great character. I really enjoy watching her. Seeing her story unfold really shows how much keeping Ash for so long stifled the anime's potential. Watching it on Netflix has been a real treat over the past year or so (and I do watch the original Japanese through...means I shall not speak of here).
Going back to what you said, I think that applies to a lot of people. The Indigo League and Orange Islands seasons seem to be the only seasons of Ash's story (at least pre-Journeys) that have genuinely withstood the test of time in the greater public consciousness. The vast majority of his show just faded into obscurity and most people didn't really pay attention to them. And looking back, especially in hindsight now that I get to witness a totally new story from the Pokemon anime, and I look back at most of the post-OS Ashnime particularly from AG to SM and I'm like "Wow...yeah this fucking sucks". Even the better parts of those were carried hard by other characters like Dawn or Paul or whatnot...not Ash. I don't ever wanna touch a lot of that again. So I don't really blame a lot of people for not knowing much about those seasons. They did suck and it showed.
Just from what I've heard through osmosis, Ash was basically written as a character who couldn't have an arc. The fact that he stayed on as the protagonist across different eras made sure that he had to be "reset" to some degree on multiple occasions, and at a certain point that just feels like the show is spinning its wheels and going nowhere. Not shocked to hear longtime viewers say that the side characters started shouldering more of the weight at some point.
That sort of protagonist can work with a monster-of-the-week kind of series with mostly standalone episode plots, but if continuity is important then a protagonist who can't really grow over time will eventually become an anchor.
That sort of protagonist can work with a monster-of-the-week kind of series with mostly standalone episode plots, but if continuity is important then a protagonist who can't really grow over time will eventually become an anchor.
As somebody who never got into the anime, the big thing that comes to mind when attempting to look at the franchise as a whole is that the spinoff scene feels pretty awkward after gen 5-6. I guess Legends could be considered to be the single-player-focused games making up for the decline of e.g., PMD and Ranger, but I can't really say they work for me as an alternate since they share a decent chunk of why I don't have much interest in the current mainline games.
for any brits itt, sinnoh series and onwards are on the iplayer -- pretty cool!
Watch the blur…
I distinctly remember catching it Cartoon Network after the Kids WB run up to the Diamond and Pearl era, and know it was still running on CN before Disney snatched up broadcasting rights to put on Disney XD during the Sun and Moon era. (That was a super weird channel hop ngl, especially since Disney dumped it by the end of Gen 7 and the show jumped to Netflix.) But I definitely cannot recall the anime being on super frequently during the Black and White era. Then again, I was in high school in 2009-2012 (so a good chunk of Gen 4 and the entirety of Gen 5) and not exactly tuning into Cartoon Network a bunch even if I was still playing the games. DVRs being popular at that time before right streaming really took over (and thus TV scheduling being less important to keep track off) also contribute to the hazy memories.
It's been a minute since I've seen a take this wild.
I was deadass expecting an argument to include side games like Stadium, not the freaking anime of all things. Gen 1 Mainline + Stadium 1 is leaps and bounds above FRLG btw. RBY is already better than FRLG on its own anyway.
There's just no reason to include it when it comes to generations though, especially with how repetitive the anime could get, and the varying degrees of hoeing that Ash went through so he wouldn't become champ. (Tobias was some bullshit!
)Imagine telling Gen 5 fans this:
Those rabid ahh people would probably jump you on the spot even if you weren't dissing those garbage games.
Assuming this is true, we might as well include everything: manga adaptations, spinoff games, general media impact (if we do this one, then Gen 1 remains uncontested best generation and not even close)
Funnily enough, if I judged them based only on how good the Adventures arc is, I would be saying "Generation 6, the last amazing generation of Pokémon" instead of 5
Very curious as to your reasoning. RBY is extremely archaic and hard to go back to unless you're actively trying to abuse glitches or other cracks in the game design. I would not hesitate to point someone to FRLG if they want to experience Kanto.
Personal bias is 150% seeping in but I really think that Gen 7 has a solid claim to best overall IF you count Pokemon Go as part of it: It came out before SM and many people don't like how Niantic has managed it but its impact was undeniably monumental. Other than that, goat games and goat anime, including a (from what I've heard) splendid batch of movies. Such a vibrant and artistically rich era of the franchise on nearly every front I would give everything to go back to. My secondary nomination would be 4 for being the undisputed golden age of console spinoffsAssuming this is true, we might as well include everything: manga adaptations, spinoff games, general media impact (if we do this one, then Gen 1 remains uncontested best generation and not even close)
Funnily enough, if I judged them based only on how good the Adventures arc is, I would be saying "Generation 6, the last amazing generation of Pokémon" instead of 5
Same (Including the personal bias stuff), with 6 as a runner-up. There was so much to be hyped about during GO Mania up to LGPE. GO as a whole, Ash Greninja, Ultra Beasts, the Legendary events, the GOATED animes...
God I miss the 3DS era...
I mean, if I'm going to hold unintentional behaviors that make the experience worse against other games, why not embrace when the jank is interesting? I do think gen 3's package is better, but there's also a solid argument that Stadium can be classed as part of a Kanto experience while Colosseum definitely can't.
Like don't get me wrong the jank does have its own appeal (e.g. auto crit Razor Leaf makes taking the Grass starter actually a consideration, which is a rarity lol), but Gen 1 also has the super limited bag, crappy movesets, and some Pokémon just being awful with the single Special stat. Those flaws can be heavily suffocating to a casual playthrough.
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The limits are part of the point of Gen 1 and part of its charm though.
You don’t replay Gen 1 because you want it to feel a like modern Pokemon game. You want to replay Gen 1 because it is pixel art, it has amazing tunes for the time that are addictive, it has a compelling story and narrative, and because it comes with a huge amount of other material, lore and merchandise that - and I speak as a Gen Wunner - you really had to be there, to understand it fully.
Gen 1 I would argue is best for casual playthroughs because it’s limiting on certain features. Not limited overall.
But if someone asked me if I’d go for a completely new 3D interpretation of Gen 1, like this:
Then sign me up!
Unironically yeah, it was the milestone generation of 20 years of Pokemon. GO could be considered part of it since it released of that year, hard to considered it a Gen 6 game when it was pure Kanto when it first dropped (then again, XY was also way too overboard with the Kanto nostalgia, so it fits in Gen 6 too ig).
I do feel it's kinda unfair that the Gens 7 and 8 animes got media spotlight ONLY BECAUSE Ash won those leagues. And that's because of the Original Series impact on people, not because of SM and Journeys series themselves. It's unfair because the rest of the series feel ignored as a result, only the end result matters. I say this despite me not being a fan of these.
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I will happily say I have nostalgia goggles on, but if you lived through the GB era, and played Pokemon, you will find yourself humming certain tunes without realising it. I always hum the cycling road theme when I'm actually cycling
The storyline in RBY was pretty well developed compared to some other contemporaries on the same console - only Link's Awakening and the two follow ups really beat it overall, IMO.