Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[pika pal]

And as for Thundurus OG, it's just not worth it. Prankster isn't as great as in gen 5, and Defiant? On a special attacker? Lmao.

I continue to feel like a lack of Physical Electric options is beginning to stick out (not necessarily as an issue, but just as something that can be noticed), because Thundurus actually has a couple decent Physical options if its STAB wasn't stuck with Wild Charge or Supercell Slam being a choice of "how soon do I want to KO myself?" vs Thunderbolt.

Quite a few of our Defensive mons (including Tera-Water users like Garg, Gliscor, or Zapdos) can get away with basically pretending the Electric Typing doesn't exist, since we have 4 Electric types in OU B-Ranks and above (what I arbitrarily consider to be the "careful if you build weak to this" threshold"), of which only 1 is Physical (Iron Hands) and still has sub-par options, and in the case of Tera the corresponding Grass Weakness amounts to Wellspring and then a handful of stuff like Rillaboom, Hydrapple, and Sinistcha that collectively appear less than it does alone.

OU certainly has an abundance of Ground types but I swear you can use Glowking as a secondary Electric check simply because it's basically all Special damage.

I kinda feel like OU currently has a bit of a problem with Water type Breakers being incredibly dificult to stop for offense and bulkier teams compared to past gens.

People didnt take the right lesson from the Palafin Suspect of Wellspring not being nowhere near enough to stop Water type sweepers/Breakers, Specs Volcanio, Keldeo and Walking Wake specialy can still break through most teams and Manaphy and other water type setup sweepers, while severely underated are still very threatening.
The only water Types Wellspring has actually killed the viability of are all the bulky water types not named Alomomola and primarina, the same bulky waters that would make checking all these powerfull breakers much easier.
this is also compounded by the current low viability of Grass types, as they have lost usage and viability over being walled by most defensive staples and being unreliable checks to Wellspring herself

It's not helped by the fact that Wellspring is extremely susceptible to Chip since she can't run Boots or Lefties and ironically discourages Alomomola as the best Wish Passer that could team support it there. These add up to mean it's not very reliable as a check to the mentioned Breakers because they all have alternative STABs/Coverage that it can't afford to take when trying to sponge their Water hits (if you have Wellspring in the back and Wake is on the field, you're gambling on bringing Ogerpon into a Draco as much as they're gambling on you NOT bringing Ogerpon into a Hydro).

It's the same argument I tended to have about Kyurem or Volcarona bringing defensive utility: it's risky for them to do it more than 1 or 2 times, so they're almost never defensively checking things so much as scaring them out to get their chance to Snowball or punch a massive hole, which in turn means they're primarily a problem for Bulky Pokemon that can't threaten to punish a Misplay in one-shot nearly as hard the way Volc/Kyu/Wellspring can do to them.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Another thing worth noting is that the go to check for offensive water types are water absorb pokemon, and just who’s the best water absorber in the tier right now?

Manaphy is also been stronger recently because of its sub tail glow sets which are just bulky enough to often keep their substitutes up against most defensive pokemon, often killing the defensive pokemon and doing massive damage to the next pokemon which can’t kill it due to sub being broken instead, unless its dragapult which is public enemy #1 for all substitute users.

 

[Ballerr]

I think I will forever be a Hoopa-U guy. I got into top 50 again with Hoopa-U.

Maybe the last thing I need to do is actually participating in a big tournament and bring Hoopa-U in

Hoopa U fanclub population of two
I got top 20 back in like feb/march with hoopa and defo a very cool pick with av as a bit of a blanket answer to spatk dudes when you pair it with stuff like wishpass mola and smth to exploit on whatever holes it punches into defensive structures weak to it (all of them), it obv despises hazards much more than other breakers and the very silly quad uturn weakness, but theres defo workarounds with hoopa being able to threaten Ghold and we have enough contact punishers in the tier to sorta patch the uturn issue up, good thing none of the aforementioned u-turners have non contact stab + grass stab to own mola

Wait

 

[Prowlermon]

Yeah, after the usage stats are released, I think the one mon could be "decent" now, even with basically is used in one archetype

Yes, it's time for Pelipper I think.

"But rain is trash" shut up. I not talking about the rain, I talk about the pelipper itself. Look at the top 7 in usage, and look peli.

It almost got a little good matchup with almost them, you can use the special bulk or physical bulk, and weather ball/surf hits decently hard, and have better spatk that Ninetails in comparison (Just bringing this up in case anyone talks about Peli's spatk, we see that Tails is surprisingly decent with Weaball)

"But woger-" woger is annoying, sure, but if you live, you have roost, and the bottom name hurricane, and tera exists (tera grass is good option, and dragon too if woger don't have PRough)

And bad matchup, just u-turn, you tank some hits, gholdengo don't kill you with shadow ball (it's 3HKO, and make it rain it's similar but little weaker because you're water type), even Darkrai can ohko you (I'm taking into account without using NP from both, with you taking a guaranteed 2HKO)

And bolt is fallen of a little because of ting lu, then it's worth it


And for that's guys for insane

0 SpA Tera Ground Pelipper Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 182-216 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Tera Ground Pelipper Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 180-212 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Tera Ground Pelipper: 211-249 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Don't. Please, is funny but don't try.

 

[Coin Flip]

Seeing HO rise again is disappointing tbh. Makes me feel like the meta is regressing a bit.

 

[UltraSword]

Yeah, after the usage stats are released, I think the one mon could be "decent" now, even with basically is used in one archetype

Yes, it's time for Pelipper I think.

"But rain is trash" shut up. I not talking about the rain, I talk about the pelipper itself. Look at the top 7 in usage, and look peli.

It almost got a little good matchup with almost them, you can use the special bulk or physical bulk, and weather ball/surf hits decently hard, and have better spatk that Ninetails in comparison (Just bringing this up in case anyone talks about Peli's spatk, we see that Tails is surprisingly decent with Weaball)

"But woger-" woger is annoying, sure, but if you live, you have roost, and the bottom name hurricane, and tera exists (tera grass is good option, and dragon too if woger don't have PRough)

And bad matchup, just u-turn, you tank some hits, gholdengo don't kill you with shadow ball (it's 3HKO, and make it rain it's similar but little weaker because you're water type), even Darkrai can ohko you (I'm taking into account without using NP from both, with you taking a guaranteed 2HKO)

And bolt is fallen of a little because of ting lu, then it's worth it


And for that's guys for insane

0 SpA Tera Ground Pelipper Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 182-216 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Tera Ground Pelipper Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 180-212 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Tera Ground Pelipper: 211-249 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Don't. Please, is funny but don't try.

You know when I tried the funny Beartic rain team (which I totally didn't remove Beartic from) I was surprised by how...somewhat strong Pelipper was. It has great bulk and its moves boosted by rain are quite powerful against the likes of Wogerpon and Iron Valiant. I am not saying it should be used as an offensive threat (because it is not) but in a pinch it can be quite helpful. Rain in general isn't that good right now but it definitely has potential when pokemon like Wogerpon and Raging Neck Bolt exist.

 

[MC Squared]

Seeing HO rise again is disappointing tbh. Makes me feel like the meta is regressing a bit.

Wonder if this will lead to Ribombee Sticky Web teams becoming popular again

 

[Eeveeto]

Modest Quiver Dance/Moonblast/Psychic Noise/Tera Blast (Ground) Ribombee will forever have much more aura than cringe Sticky Web sets. Leave the Webs to Araquanid, who at least is an honest breaker and not just a cheap suicide lead.

 

[Moyashi]

What would you guys say is the ugliest Pokemon in OU? For me, it's Glowking. I can't stand that fat fucking piece of shit, always coming in on Pech like it owns the place. The fact that such a hideous design is in two generations of OU is proof that Gamefreak's design philosophy is deteriorating.

Glowking is a great design lmao

Wonder if this will lead to Ribombee Sticky Web teams becoming popular again

Speaking of webs, I guess I’ll be a “hater” and say that I never understand what makes the playstyle something ladder may gravitate towards in the low-mid ranges particularly. The playstyle still suffers from issues of consistency vs boots heavy structures or not having great match ups against common leads (all webs setters badly lose to Ting Lu who stacks a million in front of them. I dunno I don’t get it.

 

[Heatranator]

Speaking of webs, I guess I’ll be a “hater” and say that I never understand what makes the playstyle something ladder may gravitate towards in the low-mid ranges particularly. The playstyle still suffers from issues of consistency vs boots heavy structures or not having great match ups against common leads (all webs setters badly lose to Ting Lu who stacks a million in front of them. I dunno I don’t get it.

216+ SpA Water Bubble Araquanid Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 216-254 (42 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As the araq user, I will be taking this damage on ting. That means stuff such as ghold or bolt are way more threatening for the ting user.
252 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 156-186 (30.3 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Heck, despite me thinking bee is absolutely shit, it at least can threaten ting for good damage (eq is a 3HKO, so you can trade most of tings health for this).

 

[Welcome to mars]

An almost 2hko is a noteworthy feat given that this is Ting Lu after all and Araquanid is the most consistent web setter in OU, but the main incentive using for webs in gen 9 OU is never the setter itself given that some use ribombee, but rather it enabling you to potentially sweep by just spamming the hardest hitting pokemon which is a fun, match up reliant way of play so its reasonable why mid Ladder would lean to it, its better than them spamming Latias after all.

Manaphy is especially good on this playstyle due to its raw power with tail glow that makes most walls fold like laundry and frail pokemon shatter, allowing it to not only use tail glow to wallbreak, but also sweep. It was even more popular on webs during the days of DLC 1.

 

[quacc]

An almost 2hko is a noteworthy feat given that this is Ting Lu after all and Araquanid is the most consistent web setter in OU, but the main incentive using for webs in gen 9 OU is never the setter itself given that some use ribombee, but rather it enabling you to potentially sweep by just spamming the hardest hitting pokemon which is a fun, match up reliant way of play so its reasonable why mid Ladder would lean to it, its better than them spamming Latias after all.

Manaphy is especially good on this playstyle due to its raw power with tail glow that makes most walls fold like laundry and frail pokemon shatter, allowing it to not only use tail glow to wallbreak, but also sweep. It was even more popular on webs during the days of DLC 1.

you are not sweeping with araquanid i'm sorry, you're too slow and fully walled by dragonite and most teams like to carry at least some form of water resist.

what makes araquanid good is its good matchup into opposing hazard setters though, against bee it's easier to let them get up webs while you get your rocks up and argue you're fine with a webs immune speed control, but araquanid can KO/dent those things and then get up webs, so if you have like araq + bolt you have to be a little more careful about letting ting or whatever ground hazard setter you have take a big hit. having an easier time leading and getting up webs against iron moth is also really nice since facing lead moth as bee is really suspect.

 

[kd458]

Hi all! We intend to add a "set compendium" resource to the SV OU forums, very similar to the equivalent page recently added for SS OU; this resource will set out to collect all viable sets in the OU tier into a single page, giving less individual set explanation than the SmogDex but collating both metagame defining sets for each OU viable Pokemon and more of the niche ladder or tournament sets that appear in the tier.

As the SV OU tier is far from entirely settled and regular tournaments mean that new sets can pop up at a moment's notice, we would like to make sure that this resource stays updated and in tune with the current meta - for any who would be interested in helping to maintain this or finding out more about it, feel free to reach out to veti (symptomsofamnesia on Discord), who will be hosting this resource!

 

[Welcome to mars]

you are not sweeping with araquanid i'm sorry, you're too slow and fully walled by dragonite and most teams like to carry at least some form of water resist.

what makes araquanid good is its good matchup into opposing hazard setters though, against bee it's easier to let them get up webs while you get your rocks up and argue you're fine with a webs immune speed control, but araquanid can KO/dent those things and then get up webs, so if you have like araq + bolt you have to be a little more careful about letting ting or whatever ground hazard setter you have take a big hit. having an easier time leading and getting up webs against iron moth is also really nice since facing lead moth as bee is really suspect.

I never said anything about sweeping with araquanid…

since it doesn’t even hit hard enough for pokemon with no way of boosting its attack to sweep,i even said “the main incentive using for webs in gen 9 OU is never the setter itself”

I was merely talking about how its consistency in allowing you to use hard hitting pokemon such as wallbreakers to potentially clean mid or late game since it negates the need for a speed boost with webs

 

[leng loi]

Gonna drop tutoring resources here as I make/update them. I want to have more standard terminology for mons so if people have input on what I should call these things to be more clear I'd be open to hear

Approved by Finch

 

[Coin Flip]

Is there any movement on Tera blast being tested? It feels like Dnite has become the new Roaring Moon, except there are like 9 viable sets.

 

[SittinGamer]

Is there any movement on Tera blast being tested? It feels like Dnite has become the new Roarinf Moon, except there are like 9 viable sets.

Consistently yes, but the numbers just aren't there. Iirc its never even hit a 3 on the last few surveys

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

Consistently yes, but the numbers just aren't there. Iirc its never even hit a 3 on the last few surveys

Citing surveys is not the best argument! Tera blast has been surveyed twice once at 3 then 2.8, which was higher than unsurveyed Roaring Moon- banned shortly after. Could have easily ran with the 2.8 and the popular fairy blast moon set as enough to push tb ban convo.

Unfortunately council sentiment is only 1 of 7 or whatever pro TB ban.

It will not happen while current generation.

But this gen is almost over. We will hopefully know in two weeks how long until Champions. There may be no further action.

Hope this clears things up!

 

[UltraSword]

But this gen is almost over. We will hopefully know in two weeks how long until Champions. There may be no further action.

That actually brings up a good point. Will gen 9 be over when Champions releases? In theory there will be no new pokemon from champions but a lot of returning mega evos. Will tiering action continue once the Champions ladder is set up or will it be like a...gen 9.5 ou.

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

That actually brings up a good point. Will gen 9 be over when Champions releases? In theory there will be no new pokemon from champions but a lot of returning mega evos. Will tiering action continue once the Champions ladder is set up or will it be like a...gen 9.5 ou.

A tera + mega meta doesn't exist in SV gen 9. Gen 9 will be over. Champions may be called GEN 9 CHMP or whatever they want to call it if showdown is allowed to exist and it will either be silly or not to try to tier it. But having a release date so near the end of gen 9 with few pokemon initially suggests it will be compatible with at least some of gen 10.

Either way current gen 9 will be divorced of whatever happens in Champions

 

[Avira]

A tera + mega meta doesn't exist in SV gen 9. Gen 9 will be over. Champions may be called GEN 9 CHMP or whatever they want to call it if showdown is allowed to exist and it will either be silly or not to try to tier it. But having a release date so near the end of gen 9 with few pokemon initially suggests it will be compatible with at least some of gen 10.

Either way current gen 9 will be divorced of whatever happens in Champions

There is 0 reason to believe that Pokemon Champions is coming close to the end of Gen 9. Gamefreak said either this year or last year that it'd either hire more employees to keep the release cycle every three years or extend the release cycle due to not having the resources to continue at its current pace. This suggests that Gen 10 won't come until the end of 2026. Gen 9 is far from over, and there is still more than a year left for tiering action. Just 'cause there won't be action on Tera Blast doesn't mean that Roaring Moon will be the last ban of the generation.

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

There is 0 reason to believe that Pokemon Champions is coming close to the end of Gen 9. Gamefreak said either this year or last year that it'd either hire more employees to keep the release cycle every three years or extend the release cycle due to not having the resources to continue at its current pace. This suggests that Gen 10 won't come until the end of 2026.

I guess maybe I started it with being off topic but this feels like semantics. Ill be happy if champions actually releases this year but even still, a year before gen 10 sure feels like close to the end of gen 9? A few months of limited champions and then a gen 10 upgrade is what i expect. Maybe im wrong and they're releasing a battle simulator to only be useful for one year? We'll see!

 

[MC Squared]

That actually brings up a good point. Will gen 9 be over when Champions releases? In theory there will be no new pokemon from champions but a lot of returning mega evos. Will tiering action continue once the Champions ladder is set up or will it be like a...gen 9.5 ou.

Champions isn't a mainline game. It's similar to Stadium and Battle Revolution where it's a battle sim which can connect to an application (in this case HOME). Pokémon obtained in Champions CAN'T be sent to HOME but Pokémon from SV and already in HOME can be sent to Champions. The game will have its own roster that's not identical to SV and it'll increase over time similar to Unite and GO

 

[MC Squared]

I guess maybe I started it with being off topic but this feels like semantics. Ill be happy if champions actually releases this year but even still, a year before gen 10 sure feels like close to the end of gen 9? A few months of limited champions and then a gen 10 upgrade is what i expect. Maybe im wrong and they're releasing a battle simulator to only be useful for one year? We'll see!

It seems to be confirmed that VGC 2026 will be in Champions since the main focus is Megas. What else can they do for SV aside from allowing Mythicals or doing something similar to VGC 2019 and not allowing Terastallization.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Embrace the Mandibuzz pill. utterly stands defiant in the face of Dnite even against SE hits and has access to foul play and/or whirlwind. Even handles Ogerpon pretty well (unless you get crit.............)