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Metagame Alphabet Cup
- Thread starter Eli
- Start date
Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Combat Torque / Close Combat
- Thunder Punch / Cross Chop
- Fire Punch
for a C user, this thing is strong…..might have to concoct more stuff in team builder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9alphabetcup-2425349664-8ggipcaeqlut6r55182dtexyi5y2feypw
(ignore the fact i was playing like hot ass in the beginning)
i also made some things…….
Regice @ Leftovers / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Clear Body / Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Recover
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
With access to Recover now, Regice won’t have to worry about using Rest and being exploited while asleep. This set can also help it act as an ACTUAL SPECIAL WALL now, and won’t have to worry about chip either, since it TEEECHNICALLY can carry boots too.
Haxorus @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dual Chop
- Aqua Jet / Fake Out
- Fusion Bolt / Hammer Arm
F and H giving Haxorus more priority to help it get KOs better was DEFINITELY a step in the right direction. Dragon Dance helps mitigate that even further by guaranteeing Aqua Jet dents whatever DOESNT asborb Water-type moves.
Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Head Smash / High Jump Kick
- Anchor Shot / Fusion Bolt
F and H can also help Haxorus take advantage of poor accuracy moves and allow it to spam HJK to murder Steels and Ices thanks to Hone Claws. Fusion bolt gives it coverage for Alomomola too.
Regice @ Leftovers / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Clear Body / Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Recover
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
With access to Recover now, Regice won’t have to worry about using Rest and being exploited while asleep. This set can also help it act as an ACTUAL SPECIAL WALL now, and won’t have to worry about chip either, since it TEEECHNICALLY can carry boots too.
Haxorus @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dual Chop
- Aqua Jet / Fake Out
- Fusion Bolt / Hammer Arm
F and H giving Haxorus more priority to help it get KOs better was DEFINITELY a step in the right direction. Dragon Dance helps mitigate that even further by guaranteeing Aqua Jet dents whatever DOESNT asborb Water-type moves.
Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Head Smash / High Jump Kick
- Anchor Shot / Fusion Bolt
F and H can also help Haxorus take advantage of poor accuracy moves and allow it to spam HJK to murder Steels and Ices thanks to Hone Claws. Fusion bolt gives it coverage for Alomomola too.
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With access to both H and S, I personally think that Kingdra might be the best K user in this entire format, since both H and S give it more phenomenal options and coverage to become one of the most THREATENING pokemon in the format.
Kingdra @ Life Orb / White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump / Surf / Scald
- Hurricane / Ice Beam / Sacred Sword
This Shell Smash set I made in tandem with Sniper turns Kingdra into a DANGEROUS special nuke that can literally delete anything resistant or not. Nearly broken if using Swift Swim in rain. PERFECT for sweeping or annoying bulkier foes.
I’m thinking of making a physical set too
Isn't Shell Smash restricted?
So, this tier sure has a lot of trick room users huh? With every T mon getting Trick Room+Teleport, I've been looking around for the best Trick Room users. With Ursaluna gone, people have to innovate (ew) and I've seen most people gravitate Conkeldurr to replace Ursaluna.
But Conkeldur is really just a worse Ursaluna. No stab on Facade means you can't secure nearly as man Ko's as you would with Ursaluna. It also lacks Swords Dance, meaning its a lot tougher to break through bulky physical walls, especially if they're a bulky Ghost type.
But I've found something better. Something that isn't a lesser Ursaluna, but in fact, surpases it.
You see, Toucannon may not get Guts Facade, but its does get something nearly as good: Skill Link Population Bomb
252+ Atk Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 340-420 (99.7 - 123.1%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 397-468 (116.4 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So its about 10% less, how is this so much better than Ursaluna?
Well you see noble reader, Toucannon doesn't need to hold the item flame orb. While this helps make up for its lackluster bulk in comparison to Conkeldurr or Ursaluna, we can opt to throw that all away, in exchange for a much stronger orb.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 440-550 (129 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You're seeing this right. Toucannon hits harder than Ursaluna.
Toucannon also has Swords Dance (To break past ANYTHING) and Knock Off (To deal with pesky Ghost Types). It has an attack stat of 120, meaning its no slouch, even when compared to Ursaluna and Conkeldurr.
You can also run items like Protective Pads (If you're lame [Thats probably its best set]) or Choice Band, if you're really confident in being able to call out switches.
252+ Atk Choice Band Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 510-610 (149.5 - 178.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If your opponent has no Rocky Helmet or Ghost type Pokemon, this Toucannon can tear them apart with reckless abandon.
Even burning it won't stop its overwhelming power, as one of my opponents learnt when:
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 330-390 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Amazing Mon, I'll be cooking more Trick Room in the future, especially when I one day find a decent Special Attacker for Trick Room.
(I forgot Primarina exists despite it being on all my Trick Room Teams, that mon is broken in TR)
But Conkeldur is really just a worse Ursaluna. No stab on Facade means you can't secure nearly as man Ko's as you would with Ursaluna. It also lacks Swords Dance, meaning its a lot tougher to break through bulky physical walls, especially if they're a bulky Ghost type.
But I've found something better. Something that isn't a lesser Ursaluna, but in fact, surpases it.
You see, Toucannon may not get Guts Facade, but its does get something nearly as good: Skill Link Population Bomb
252+ Atk Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 340-420 (99.7 - 123.1%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 397-468 (116.4 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So its about 10% less, how is this so much better than Ursaluna?
Well you see noble reader, Toucannon doesn't need to hold the item flame orb. While this helps make up for its lackluster bulk in comparison to Conkeldurr or Ursaluna, we can opt to throw that all away, in exchange for a much stronger orb.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 440-550 (129 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You're seeing this right. Toucannon hits harder than Ursaluna.
Toucannon also has Swords Dance (To break past ANYTHING) and Knock Off (To deal with pesky Ghost Types). It has an attack stat of 120, meaning its no slouch, even when compared to Ursaluna and Conkeldurr.
You can also run items like Protective Pads (If you're lame [Thats probably its best set]) or Choice Band, if you're really confident in being able to call out switches.
252+ Atk Choice Band Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 510-610 (149.5 - 178.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If your opponent has no Rocky Helmet or Ghost type Pokemon, this Toucannon can tear them apart with reckless abandon.
Even burning it won't stop its overwhelming power, as one of my opponents learnt when:
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Toucannon Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 330-390 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Amazing Mon, I'll be cooking more Trick Room in the future, especially when I one day find a decent Special Attacker for Trick Room.
(I forgot Primarina exists despite it being on all my Trick Room Teams, that mon is broken in TR)
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Well, as I've reached #106 by peaking 1409 in one of my alts (real water resist) i'll share the teams i've built, They're partially alright to me, I am really happy with some and not so much with others, but they should all be solid. I wouldn't advice anything about samples, because i don't know how basic they are, but I really wanted to experiment with some of the treats that this weird ass format can give you. But before, some (not so) small considerations in the light of the suspect.
Polteageist can be really obnoxious. It's basically a very reliable asset on Hyper Offense due to how sash makes it basically mandatory for your rival to have hazards and you can always have some Tidy Up tech to get them off the field even with the risk it takes. I'm kinda baffled that it's not been considered that a strong Ghost type with access to Secret Sword with basically inexistant defensive answers (like i guess physically defensive Hoodra might live +2 Sacred Sword? but just maybe) might be stupid. This is not to say that it's suspect worthy but if you pilot it decently it's an auto win in lower levels and i think it should be at least considered for further exploration to really test its limits.
Spirit Shackle. Partial trapping that's 100% reliable and can also be not a waste of a moveslot is really annoying. There's a guy on ladder that runs Spirit Shackle/Spiky Shield/Skill Swap VD Slaking. It's stupid. Yeah it can be checked reliably in this case by just not letting it set up easily, Slaking has checks and that's why my problem is SS and not Slaking himself. It'ts techable on any S-mon, I've used it on Scream Tail to rather decent success, considered it as a move on Snorlax and used it to middling results on Skarmory. Spirit Shackle + Encore is just too much, you basically are not letting your opponent play the game and are encouraging cheese to prevail in the offhanded scenarios. Again, not to say it's definitely suspect worthy but follow it closely in case of new innovations.
Volcanion is... really hard to fit really. And in the V-Dance sets i think Volt Tackle just fucks up your survivability. I consider its potential best use is just using it as a mixed attacker with V-Create, Steam Eruption, Volt Switch and whichever fourth you prefer (EPower, Sludge Bomb/Wave, Vacuum Wave?, Vine Whip if you really really hate Swampert? Idk). I wouldn't consider it for a ban unless we get evidence that the Band set is too strong because VD is a hell of a commitment for a mon that needs 3 of them to take 2 on a decently built opposing team. Hell, it's even kinda rare in low ladder.
And uhh take a glance at Enamorus maybe? It only needs 2/3 tools, and the Contrary set is really not that good without tera. The tools are Electro Shot and Esper Wing. You get coverage (redundant sure, because epower is there, but you can boost speed while hitting clod) and boost your stats, i can't count the games this has gotten me. Add up its webs immunity and spikes immunity and you get a behemoth that can only be checked by the seldom seen Bullet Punch. And that's if it's up against something like CB Scizor. From extensive use my honest opinion is that we should not entertain this much unless we see new reliable checks pop up.
Alsso we desperately need some good resources. The decentralized nature of the tier is strong, it's kind of a stand-out, but some of the evaluations i've made are completely independent from most of the playerbase's experience and could prove to hinder the tier's playability and potential to attract players in the future. I'm not someone to volunteer myself for authority charges but I'll be glad to share my experience after having played a shitton with the tier leaders to aid them in this.
Ok, now to the teams. Take these with a grain of salt, these are more of a lightning in a bottle thing and by the next time we get Alphabet Cup on the selection they might be massively outdated and/or predictable.
https://pokepast.es/9969fd15a8cb7ffc
Starting off with Bulwark Calm Mind Primarina Balance.
This is the oldest from the selection i believe. Also probably the most consistent. But the one who has the most room for improvement. Some mus are straight up unreliable (Hax destroys this half of the time) and the speed control is a rather slow-ish Torn-T, so you might struggle. That being said, there are options for everything and it's more of a showcase of some individual strengths than anything else (Bulwark Prim as a decently capable bulky wincon that can punish phyiscal checks and blank Hoodra, Lax as an overall all-round support and Skeledirge as a pretty amazing wallbreaker).
https://pokepast.es/4a98e4040593a97d
This is the most recent one, the least proven one, but i think it's still got potential. Conkeldurr is one of the most techable mons in this format. G, C, T is a hell of a versatile set. Sure, the first of those might only give it Gigaton Hammer, Gunk Shot and uhh Grav Apple and Grassy Glide i guess if you really wanna bet for the synergy? but the first two are really solid coverage (use Gigaton though, it hits neutrally half the tier since the only real steel resist that isn't scared to switch into Conk is Toxapex. The set portrayed is pretty bad. Pex blanks you and you're basically food for Typhlosion-Hisui, but hey, that's what we got the support for, right? Just remove those! Thundy as a more pseudo-support piece is definitely something i recommend (discharge > thunder cage is also an option) and SD Slaking can just be a free kill mid to late game. Play your pieces right and you should get some worth out of this.
https://pokepast.es/e17fcdf677cd9a0b
Who's up for some redundant type combinations out here? Who cares, this is a pretty solid one too! The Slaking set is super gimmicky, not the best use of Spirit Shackle really but it might be able to kinda do something if you catch someone red-handed. Lati is just speed control + hwish support but you can run the blue one, Prim is just something i thought would pair well, Garg + Pex is the core that low ladder hates and Chomper is the thing that will probably win you 65% of your games. Tkae a look at it, I recommend it.
https://pokepast.es/bb34e2db6f29f445
Haxorus can really be swapped out by anything. To my judgement, Salamence is the most reliable dragon out there, Archaludon has an argument as a steel, and there are probably another bunch of mons. When i talk about the brokens, this is what i mean. Enam and Poltea can perfectly fit on a team together and get rid of their respective limited amount of checks by wreaking havoc on the opponent's team reliably, and that is what makes HO just such an easy archetype to run with. Sure, you've got the bulky stuffs that might ease the pressure if you reaaally want to commit, but like, do you? It's a mess! I believe Cinderace is probably a more reliable lead than Samurott-H by the mere fact that its speed tier isn't shit. Threatening Serperior, Thundurus, Ogerpon-Hearthflame (and also Wellspring) and getting rid of Corviknight is big merit. The little downside? no Destiny Bond avilable for you. Alas.
https://pokepast.es/02e588501d7957ab
This is also one of the later ones, as you might notice from the repetitive tendencies. Yeah, one of the reasons i'm doing this is the fact that i don't have the strength to build much anymore. I've burned up. Take what you may and profit from it. Or don't. But take it into account for sure. I wanted to run Rapid Shifu, that gets Knock in here! Wow! Not a big deal really, but it might be good support in some cases. I got some of the goodstuffs there (Stun Spore Amoonguss to spread status, BandChomp because why wouldn't you use it as a breaker, it's broken, and Lax because it's just reliable role compression for lazy builders) and added Skeledirge and Skarmory to complete the core. I had Sacred Fire last on Skarm before, but Haxorus decimated me. Take care.
https://pokepast.es/b20af5fc714d2f20
The roles are tremendously iffy. But boom sylveon is a crazy tech, and i love it. 90% of the time i just boom t1 and trade my shitmon for theirs. What a grace! This is when i realised that 1. Thundurus-Genie isn't meant to be a Torch Song bot. Just run Tidy Up and coverage because it's even better that way, the Therian forme is right there AND has agility too. And 2. Polteageist is uhhh kinda broken! So yeah, take good care with that. Toy around with the sets, the side dishes, and you might make a more consistent team, because you kinda need to with this setup.
https://pokepast.es/02b196b033957c38
I really wanted to make Kommo-O work. It wasn't succesful. But it got some results. Serperior is the second best lead for Hyper Offense and probably the best web setter out there, because it packs a threat of its own that Ribombee can't replicate in Leaf Storm + Glare (as well as setting up its own rocks for extra compression and not having to run Stone Axe Scizor. Ha!). PolteaEnam is a staple in my Lazy HOs, Salamence is a staple in my Bad HOs and Necrozma is another mon i wanted to toy with. I think this set is basically the only usable one? But No Retreat is just too much of a commitment early game and can lead to Spirit Shackle Slaking ruining your life. Play wise and don't be afraid to use potential sweepers as fuel for the eventual game winner, whichever it may be (heavily matchup dependant).
I have some more teams but i can't be arsed to talk about them thoroughly, I don't have the same care for those, so I'll leave the very long post already at this and be happy with my contribution to the community, not without a kinda definitive opinion on the tier's precious assets.
I think ready to lose's viability ranking shows a pretty good briefing of the goods and not-so-goods in here, but it's only useful with further context that the tier's interested players deserve, and that we are unable to fully map out by this point. With the usage data from after the ladder ends, we should have more to see out there that's not around just yet. My addition is that I believe Cinderace and Primarina to be deserving of either S or S- ranking. Moreso the first. Goodra is a really good glue that benefits the most from the tier's mechanics, and Pex is the most valuable and defining defensive asset of the tier, so i wouldn't argue against their top tier status, but Ace is heavily customisable, splashable in any sort of team and variable enough to have next to no checks. I would also consider taking a look at it, but with Sacred Fire gone it loses a huge option (not that it's a big loss with the sheer amount of moves it gets now, sheesh.). Primarina is just an attacker you have to consider. You NEED a water resist if you're not running HO and you NEED a mon that gets rid of Primarina or just blanks it if you are. I'd more so say that Cinderace is definitely S material, while Prim can rot a tier below as the middle ground between the defining ones and the just really good ones.
That's all, thank you for reading, here's the full dump with extra not so tested teams. Hope this serves to further the tier's resources because the vacancy in samples is really really really annoying! https://pokepast.es/e70b278d244afeaa
Also here's proof of ""peak"" (personal best? i don't know, you don't know how much i've suffered and how many people i've bothered):
Polteageist can be really obnoxious. It's basically a very reliable asset on Hyper Offense due to how sash makes it basically mandatory for your rival to have hazards and you can always have some Tidy Up tech to get them off the field even with the risk it takes. I'm kinda baffled that it's not been considered that a strong Ghost type with access to Secret Sword with basically inexistant defensive answers (like i guess physically defensive Hoodra might live +2 Sacred Sword? but just maybe) might be stupid. This is not to say that it's suspect worthy but if you pilot it decently it's an auto win in lower levels and i think it should be at least considered for further exploration to really test its limits.
Spirit Shackle. Partial trapping that's 100% reliable and can also be not a waste of a moveslot is really annoying. There's a guy on ladder that runs Spirit Shackle/Spiky Shield/Skill Swap VD Slaking. It's stupid. Yeah it can be checked reliably in this case by just not letting it set up easily, Slaking has checks and that's why my problem is SS and not Slaking himself. It'ts techable on any S-mon, I've used it on Scream Tail to rather decent success, considered it as a move on Snorlax and used it to middling results on Skarmory. Spirit Shackle + Encore is just too much, you basically are not letting your opponent play the game and are encouraging cheese to prevail in the offhanded scenarios. Again, not to say it's definitely suspect worthy but follow it closely in case of new innovations.
Volcanion is... really hard to fit really. And in the V-Dance sets i think Volt Tackle just fucks up your survivability. I consider its potential best use is just using it as a mixed attacker with V-Create, Steam Eruption, Volt Switch and whichever fourth you prefer (EPower, Sludge Bomb/Wave, Vacuum Wave?, Vine Whip if you really really hate Swampert? Idk). I wouldn't consider it for a ban unless we get evidence that the Band set is too strong because VD is a hell of a commitment for a mon that needs 3 of them to take 2 on a decently built opposing team. Hell, it's even kinda rare in low ladder.
And uhh take a glance at Enamorus maybe? It only needs 2/3 tools, and the Contrary set is really not that good without tera. The tools are Electro Shot and Esper Wing. You get coverage (redundant sure, because epower is there, but you can boost speed while hitting clod) and boost your stats, i can't count the games this has gotten me. Add up its webs immunity and spikes immunity and you get a behemoth that can only be checked by the seldom seen Bullet Punch. And that's if it's up against something like CB Scizor. From extensive use my honest opinion is that we should not entertain this much unless we see new reliable checks pop up.
Alsso we desperately need some good resources. The decentralized nature of the tier is strong, it's kind of a stand-out, but some of the evaluations i've made are completely independent from most of the playerbase's experience and could prove to hinder the tier's playability and potential to attract players in the future. I'm not someone to volunteer myself for authority charges but I'll be glad to share my experience after having played a shitton with the tier leaders to aid them in this.
Ok, now to the teams. Take these with a grain of salt, these are more of a lightning in a bottle thing and by the next time we get Alphabet Cup on the selection they might be massively outdated and/or predictable.
https://pokepast.es/9969fd15a8cb7ffc
Starting off with Bulwark Calm Mind Primarina Balance.
This is the oldest from the selection i believe. Also probably the most consistent. But the one who has the most room for improvement. Some mus are straight up unreliable (Hax destroys this half of the time) and the speed control is a rather slow-ish Torn-T, so you might struggle. That being said, there are options for everything and it's more of a showcase of some individual strengths than anything else (Bulwark Prim as a decently capable bulky wincon that can punish phyiscal checks and blank Hoodra, Lax as an overall all-round support and Skeledirge as a pretty amazing wallbreaker).
https://pokepast.es/4a98e4040593a97d
This is the most recent one, the least proven one, but i think it's still got potential. Conkeldurr is one of the most techable mons in this format. G, C, T is a hell of a versatile set. Sure, the first of those might only give it Gigaton Hammer, Gunk Shot and uhh Grav Apple and Grassy Glide i guess if you really wanna bet for the synergy? but the first two are really solid coverage (use Gigaton though, it hits neutrally half the tier since the only real steel resist that isn't scared to switch into Conk is Toxapex. The set portrayed is pretty bad. Pex blanks you and you're basically food for Typhlosion-Hisui, but hey, that's what we got the support for, right? Just remove those! Thundy as a more pseudo-support piece is definitely something i recommend (discharge > thunder cage is also an option) and SD Slaking can just be a free kill mid to late game. Play your pieces right and you should get some worth out of this.
https://pokepast.es/e17fcdf677cd9a0b
Who's up for some redundant type combinations out here? Who cares, this is a pretty solid one too! The Slaking set is super gimmicky, not the best use of Spirit Shackle really but it might be able to kinda do something if you catch someone red-handed. Lati is just speed control + hwish support but you can run the blue one, Prim is just something i thought would pair well, Garg + Pex is the core that low ladder hates and Chomper is the thing that will probably win you 65% of your games. Tkae a look at it, I recommend it.
https://pokepast.es/bb34e2db6f29f445
Haxorus can really be swapped out by anything. To my judgement, Salamence is the most reliable dragon out there, Archaludon has an argument as a steel, and there are probably another bunch of mons. When i talk about the brokens, this is what i mean. Enam and Poltea can perfectly fit on a team together and get rid of their respective limited amount of checks by wreaking havoc on the opponent's team reliably, and that is what makes HO just such an easy archetype to run with. Sure, you've got the bulky stuffs that might ease the pressure if you reaaally want to commit, but like, do you? It's a mess! I believe Cinderace is probably a more reliable lead than Samurott-H by the mere fact that its speed tier isn't shit. Threatening Serperior, Thundurus, Ogerpon-Hearthflame (and also Wellspring) and getting rid of Corviknight is big merit. The little downside? no Destiny Bond avilable for you. Alas.
https://pokepast.es/02e588501d7957ab
This is also one of the later ones, as you might notice from the repetitive tendencies. Yeah, one of the reasons i'm doing this is the fact that i don't have the strength to build much anymore. I've burned up. Take what you may and profit from it. Or don't. But take it into account for sure. I wanted to run Rapid Shifu, that gets Knock in here! Wow! Not a big deal really, but it might be good support in some cases. I got some of the goodstuffs there (Stun Spore Amoonguss to spread status, BandChomp because why wouldn't you use it as a breaker, it's broken, and Lax because it's just reliable role compression for lazy builders) and added Skeledirge and Skarmory to complete the core. I had Sacred Fire last on Skarm before, but Haxorus decimated me. Take care.
https://pokepast.es/b20af5fc714d2f20
The roles are tremendously iffy. But boom sylveon is a crazy tech, and i love it. 90% of the time i just boom t1 and trade my shitmon for theirs. What a grace! This is when i realised that 1. Thundurus-Genie isn't meant to be a Torch Song bot. Just run Tidy Up and coverage because it's even better that way, the Therian forme is right there AND has agility too. And 2. Polteageist is uhhh kinda broken! So yeah, take good care with that. Toy around with the sets, the side dishes, and you might make a more consistent team, because you kinda need to with this setup.
https://pokepast.es/02b196b033957c38
I really wanted to make Kommo-O work. It wasn't succesful. But it got some results. Serperior is the second best lead for Hyper Offense and probably the best web setter out there, because it packs a threat of its own that Ribombee can't replicate in Leaf Storm + Glare (as well as setting up its own rocks for extra compression and not having to run Stone Axe Scizor. Ha!). PolteaEnam is a staple in my Lazy HOs, Salamence is a staple in my Bad HOs and Necrozma is another mon i wanted to toy with. I think this set is basically the only usable one? But No Retreat is just too much of a commitment early game and can lead to Spirit Shackle Slaking ruining your life. Play wise and don't be afraid to use potential sweepers as fuel for the eventual game winner, whichever it may be (heavily matchup dependant).
I have some more teams but i can't be arsed to talk about them thoroughly, I don't have the same care for those, so I'll leave the very long post already at this and be happy with my contribution to the community, not without a kinda definitive opinion on the tier's precious assets.
I think ready to lose's viability ranking shows a pretty good briefing of the goods and not-so-goods in here, but it's only useful with further context that the tier's interested players deserve, and that we are unable to fully map out by this point. With the usage data from after the ladder ends, we should have more to see out there that's not around just yet. My addition is that I believe Cinderace and Primarina to be deserving of either S or S- ranking. Moreso the first. Goodra is a really good glue that benefits the most from the tier's mechanics, and Pex is the most valuable and defining defensive asset of the tier, so i wouldn't argue against their top tier status, but Ace is heavily customisable, splashable in any sort of team and variable enough to have next to no checks. I would also consider taking a look at it, but with Sacred Fire gone it loses a huge option (not that it's a big loss with the sheer amount of moves it gets now, sheesh.). Primarina is just an attacker you have to consider. You NEED a water resist if you're not running HO and you NEED a mon that gets rid of Primarina or just blanks it if you are. I'd more so say that Cinderace is definitely S material, while Prim can rot a tier below as the middle ground between the defining ones and the just really good ones.
That's all, thank you for reading, here's the full dump with extra not so tested teams. Hope this serves to further the tier's resources because the vacancy in samples is really really really annoying! https://pokepast.es/e70b278d244afeaa
Also here's proof of ""peak"" (personal best? i don't know, you don't know how much i've suffered and how many people i've bothered):
Shell smash is indeed restricted. The kingdra set you posted is sadly unusable. If it wasn't restricted, it would be insane and everyone would be using it. Tough luck.
then you can replace it with another move like Hydro Pump or some other coverage move. It really doesn’t change much.
Well I'd argue that it changes the role of Kingdra completely, as you're now left outsped by a significant portion of the tier. The only claim to viability that it would have to distinguish itself from other better water types like Urshifu-Rapid, Primarina, Walking Wake and the likes is its volatility under rain, which you can profit off of with a Dragon Dance set to make use of the tools that it gains with the mechanics. I'd run DD/Waterfall/Shell Side Arm/Headlong Rush at that gives a coverage capable of forcing through most defensive assets and get rid of Goodra, Primarina and Toxapex
that’s fine then, i can see that working
well your GXE is 9% higher than mine so i guess i can’t argue too much.Well, as I've reached #106 by peaking 1409 in one of my alts (real water resist) i'll share the teams i've built, They're partially alright to me, I am really happy with some and not so much with others, but they should all be solid. I wouldn't advice anything about samples, because i don't know how basic they are, but I really wanted to experiment with some of the treats that this weird ass format can give you. But before, some (not so) small considerations in the light of the suspect.
Polteageist can be really obnoxious. It's basically a very reliable asset on Hyper Offense due to how sash makes it basically mandatory for your rival to have hazards and you can always have some Tidy Up tech to get them off the field even with the risk it takes. I'm kinda baffled that it's not been considered that a strong Ghost type with access to Secret Sword with basically inexistant defensive answers (like i guess physically defensive Hoodra might live +2 Sacred Sword? but just maybe) might be stupid. This is not to say that it's suspect worthy but if you pilot it decently it's an auto win in lower levels and i think it should be at least considered for further exploration to really test its limits.
Spirit Shackle. Partial trapping that's 100% reliable and can also be not a waste of a moveslot is really annoying. There's a guy on ladder that runs Spirit Shackle/Spiky Shield/Skill Swap VD Slaking. It's stupid. Yeah it can be checked reliably in this case by just not letting it set up easily, Slaking has checks and that's why my problem is SS and not Slaking himself. It'ts techable on any S-mon, I've used it on Scream Tail to rather decent success, considered it as a move on Snorlax and used it to middling results on Skarmory. Spirit Shackle + Encore is just too much, you basically are not letting your opponent play the game and are encouraging cheese to prevail in the offhanded scenarios. Again, not to say it's definitely suspect worthy but follow it closely in case of new innovations.
Volcanion is... really hard to fit really. And in the V-Dance sets i think Volt Tackle just fucks up your survivability. I consider its potential best use is just using it as a mixed attacker with V-Create, Steam Eruption, Volt Switch and whichever fourth you prefer (EPower, Sludge Bomb/Wave, Vacuum Wave?, Vine Whip if you really really hate Swampert? Idk). I wouldn't consider it for a ban unless we get evidence that the Band set is too strong because VD is a hell of a commitment for a mon that needs 3 of them to take 2 on a decently built opposing team. Hell, it's even kinda rare in low ladder.
And uhh take a glance at Enamorus maybe? It only needs 2/3 tools, and the Contrary set is really not that good without tera. The tools are Electro Shot and Esper Wing. You get coverage (redundant sure, because epower is there, but you can boost speed while hitting clod) and boost your stats, i can't count the games this has gotten me. Add up its webs immunity and spikes immunity and you get a behemoth that can only be checked by the seldom seen Bullet Punch. And that's if it's up against something like CB Scizor. From extensive use my honest opinion is that we should not entertain this much unless we see new reliable checks pop up.
Alsso we desperately need some good resources. The decentralized nature of the tier is strong, it's kind of a stand-out, but some of the evaluations i've made are completely independent from most of the playerbase's experience and could prove to hinder the tier's playability and potential to attract players in the future. I'm not someone to volunteer myself for authority charges but I'll be glad to share my experience after having played a shitton with the tier leaders to aid them in this.
Ok, now to the teams. Take these with a grain of salt, these are more of a lightning in a bottle thing and by the next time we get Alphabet Cup on the selection they might be massively outdated and/or predictable.
https://pokepast.es/9969fd15a8cb7ffc
Starting off with Bulwark Calm Mind Primarina Balance.
This is the oldest from the selection i believe. Also probably the most consistent. But the one who has the most room for improvement. Some mus are straight up unreliable (Hax destroys this half of the time) and the speed control is a rather slow-ish Torn-T, so you might struggle. That being said, there are options for everything and it's more of a showcase of some individual strengths than anything else (Bulwark Prim as a decently capable bulky wincon that can punish phyiscal checks and blank Hoodra, Lax as an overall all-round support and Skeledirge as a pretty amazing wallbreaker).
https://pokepast.es/4a98e4040593a97d
This is the most recent one, the least proven one, but i think it's still got potential. Conkeldurr is one of the most techable mons in this format. G, C, T is a hell of a versatile set. Sure, the first of those might only give it Gigaton Hammer, Gunk Shot and uhh Grav Apple and Grassy Glide i guess if you really wanna bet for the synergy? but the first two are really solid coverage (use Gigaton though, it hits neutrally half the tier since the only real steel resist that isn't scared to switch into Conk is Toxapex. The set portrayed is pretty bad. Pex blanks you and you're basically food for Typhlosion-Hisui, but hey, that's what we got the support for, right? Just remove those! Thundy as a more pseudo-support piece is definitely something i recommend (discharge > thunder cage is also an option) and SD Slaking can just be a free kill mid to late game. Play your pieces right and you should get some worth out of this.
https://pokepast.es/e17fcdf677cd9a0b
Who's up for some redundant type combinations out here? Who cares, this is a pretty solid one too! The Slaking set is super gimmicky, not the best use of Spirit Shackle really but it might be able to kinda do something if you catch someone red-handed. Lati is just speed control + hwish support but you can run the blue one, Prim is just something i thought would pair well, Garg + Pex is the core that low ladder hates and Chomper is the thing that will probably win you 65% of your games. Tkae a look at it, I recommend it.
https://pokepast.es/bb34e2db6f29f445
Haxorus can really be swapped out by anything. To my judgement, Salamence is the most reliable dragon out there, Archaludon has an argument as a steel, and there are probably another bunch of mons. When i talk about the brokens, this is what i mean. Enam and Poltea can perfectly fit on a team together and get rid of their respective limited amount of checks by wreaking havoc on the opponent's team reliably, and that is what makes HO just such an easy archetype to run with. Sure, you've got the bulky stuffs that might ease the pressure if you reaaally want to commit, but like, do you? It's a mess! I believe Cinderace is probably a more reliable lead than Samurott-H by the mere fact that its speed tier isn't shit. Threatening Serperior, Thundurus, Ogerpon-Hearthflame (and also Wellspring) and getting rid of Corviknight is big merit. The little downside? no Destiny Bond avilable for you. Alas.
https://pokepast.es/02e588501d7957ab
This is also one of the later ones, as you might notice from the repetitive tendencies. Yeah, one of the reasons i'm doing this is the fact that i don't have the strength to build much anymore. I've burned up. Take what you may and profit from it. Or don't. But take it into account for sure. I wanted to run Rapid Shifu, that gets Knock in here! Wow! Not a big deal really, but it might be good support in some cases. I got some of the goodstuffs there (Stun Spore Amoonguss to spread status, BandChomp because why wouldn't you use it as a breaker, it's broken, and Lax because it's just reliable role compression for lazy builders) and added Skeledirge and Skarmory to complete the core. I had Sacred Fire last on Skarm before, but Haxorus decimated me. Take care.
https://pokepast.es/b20af5fc714d2f20
The roles are tremendously iffy. But boom sylveon is a crazy tech, and i love it. 90% of the time i just boom t1 and trade my shitmon for theirs. What a grace! This is when i realised that 1. Thundurus-Genie isn't meant to be a Torch Song bot. Just run Tidy Up and coverage because it's even better that way, the Therian forme is right there AND has agility too. And 2. Polteageist is uhhh kinda broken! So yeah, take good care with that. Toy around with the sets, the side dishes, and you might make a more consistent team, because you kinda need to with this setup.
https://pokepast.es/02b196b033957c38
I really wanted to make Kommo-O work. It wasn't succesful. But it got some results. Serperior is the second best lead for Hyper Offense and probably the best web setter out there, because it packs a threat of its own that Ribombee can't replicate in Leaf Storm + Glare (as well as setting up its own rocks for extra compression and not having to run Stone Axe Scizor. Ha!). PolteaEnam is a staple in my Lazy HOs, Salamence is a staple in my Bad HOs and Necrozma is another mon i wanted to toy with. I think this set is basically the only usable one? But No Retreat is just too much of a commitment early game and can lead to Spirit Shackle Slaking ruining your life. Play wise and don't be afraid to use potential sweepers as fuel for the eventual game winner, whichever it may be (heavily matchup dependant).
I have some more teams but i can't be arsed to talk about them thoroughly, I don't have the same care for those, so I'll leave the very long post already at this and be happy with my contribution to the community, not without a kinda definitive opinion on the tier's precious assets.
I think ready to lose's viability ranking shows a pretty good briefing of the goods and not-so-goods in here, but it's only useful with further context that the tier's interested players deserve, and that we are unable to fully map out by this point. With the usage data from after the ladder ends, we should have more to see out there that's not around just yet. My addition is that I believe Cinderace and Primarina to be deserving of either S or S- ranking. Moreso the first. Goodra is a really good glue that benefits the most from the tier's mechanics, and Pex is the most valuable and defining defensive asset of the tier, so i wouldn't argue against their top tier status, but Ace is heavily customisable, splashable in any sort of team and variable enough to have next to no checks. I would also consider taking a look at it, but with Sacred Fire gone it loses a huge option (not that it's a big loss with the sheer amount of moves it gets now, sheesh.). Primarina is just an attacker you have to consider. You NEED a water resist if you're not running HO and you NEED a mon that gets rid of Primarina or just blanks it if you are. I'd more so say that Cinderace is definitely S material, while Prim can rot a tier below as the middle ground between the defining ones and the just really good ones.
That's all, thank you for reading, here's the full dump with extra not so tested teams. Hope this serves to further the tier's resources because the vacancy in samples is really really really annoying! https://pokepast.es/e70b278d244afeaa
Also here's proof of ""peak"" (personal best? i don't know, you don't know how much i've suffered and how many people i've bothered):
View attachment 765653View attachment 765654View attachment 765655
Lokix @ Choice Band / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Dark / Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Lunge / Leech Life
- Night Slash / U-turn
- Low Kick / Liquidation / Leaf Blade
On the topic of fast moving pokemon, I do want to bring up the many uses of this god tier STAB user Lokix. I was very unsure of using it overall, but just last week I finally concocted a somewhat decent set that can both both heavily dent anything Lokix hits with its STAB priority moves, and now with access to all moves that start with L and N, coverage for it to hit all of its major weaknesses in Fire, Rock, (some of) Flying, and Steel, while also being able to check bulky Ground- and Water-types like Dondozo and NON-sand Excadrill.
I don’t consider Lokix to have god-tier STAB when it still lacks the power to hit Corviknight and Toxapex supereffectively and is probably worsened by the fact that almost every offensive Pokemon in this tier can OHKO it (Goodra-Hisui, Garchomp, Salamence, Cinderace, Ogerpons, Volcanion, Typhlosion-Hisui, Serperior, Conkeldurr, Enamorus, Jolteon, Iron Valiant, Slaking, etc). Weavile, Meowscarada, and Dragapult all getting banned reduces the number of targets Lokix can hit supereffectively with its STAB moves. Both N and L give virtually no new useful moves besides No Retreat (Lokix lacks any bulk to set this up) and Noxious Torque, which can hit Fairies, but only on a switch prediction (Valiant and Enam are way faster). Grass and Water coverage is pretty terrible for a Pokemon with only 102 base attack, and Lokix already had Fighting coverage in the form of Axe Kick, which is arguably better than Low Kick.
If you want to find an actual coverage ”god”, look at Meowscarada (yes I know it’s banned) or Cinderace.
If you want to find an actual coverage ”god”, look at Meowscarada (yes I know it’s banned) or Cinderace.
fair. + i have answers for Cinderace too
well not necessarily with Lokix, but several other sets from “bad” mons that can actually beat it.
though Mixed Hydreigon can technically hit all of those offensive threats
Hey everyone, I have made a role compendium for Alphabet Cup. This is a list of different roles Pokemon can play in this format to help with teambuilding. The listed mons under each category are somewhat ordered from most prevalent / viable within that given role to the least, at least in my opinion, but it's not like a hard rule or anything. Mons can obviously play more than one role, and some sets feel like they're in between categories, but I tried to do the best I could here. Feel free to chime in with input of your own.
Dedicated hazard leads:
Offensive hazard setters:
Choice Band breakers:
Offensive physical setup sweepers (using speed or priority):
Bulky physical setup sweepers (relying more on bulk or recovery):
Choice Specs breakers:
Offensive special setup sweepers:
Bulky special setup sweepers:
Choice Scarf:
Strong priority:
Offensive hazard removal:
Fast offensive pivots:
No-recovery tanks:
Fast all-out-attackers that don't cleanly fit in other categories:
Phys def pivots:
Spdef or AV pivots:
Mixed bulk walls:
Dedicated physical walls:
Dedicated special walls:
Bulky hazard setters:
Bulky hazard removal:
Phazing/hazing/topsy/unaware:
Dedicated Trick Room setters:
Offensive Trick Room setters:
Trick Room breakers that don't actually get the move:
Rain:
Sun:
Electric Terrain:
Screens:
Trapping:
Dedicated hazard leads:
Offensive hazard setters:
Choice Band breakers:
Offensive physical setup sweepers (using speed or priority):
Bulky physical setup sweepers (relying more on bulk or recovery):
Choice Specs breakers:
Offensive special setup sweepers:
Bulky special setup sweepers:
Choice Scarf:
Strong priority:
Offensive hazard removal:
Fast offensive pivots:
No-recovery tanks:
Fast all-out-attackers that don't cleanly fit in other categories:
Phys def pivots:
Spdef or AV pivots:
Mixed bulk walls:
Dedicated physical walls:
Dedicated special walls:
Bulky hazard setters:
Bulky hazard removal:
Phazing/hazing/topsy/unaware:
Dedicated Trick Room setters:
Offensive Trick Room setters:
Trick Room breakers that don't actually get the move:
Rain:
Sun:
Electric Terrain:
Screens:
Trapping:
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love thisHey everyone, I have made a role compendium for Alphabet Cup. This is a list of different roles Pokemon can play in this format to help with teambuilding. The listed mons under each category are somewhat ordered from most prevalent / viable within that given role to the least, at least in my opinion, but it's not like a hard rule or anything. Mons can obviously play more than one role, and some sets feel like they're in between categories, but I tried to do the best I could here. Feel free to chime in with input of your own.
Dedicated hazard leads:
Offensive hazard setters:
Choice Band breakers:
Offensive physical setup sweepers (using speed or priority):
Bulky physical setup sweepers (relying more on bulk or recovery):
Choice Specs breakers:
Offensive special setup sweepers:
Bulky special setup sweepers:
Choice Scarf:
Strong priority:
Offensive hazard removal:
Fast offensive pivots:
No-recovery tanks:
Fast all-out-attackers that don't cleanly fit in other categories:
Phys def pivots:
Spdef or AV pivots:
Mixed bulk walls:
Dedicated physical walls:
Dedicated special walls:
Bulky hazard setters:
Bulky hazard removal:
Phazing/hazing/topsy/unaware:
Dedicated Trick Room setters:
Offensive Trick Room setters:
Trick Room breakers that don't actually get the move:
Rain:
Sun:
Electric Terrain:
Screens:
Trapping:
InkyDarkBird and by mixed Hydreigon I mean this.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Headlong Rush / Drain Punch
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave / Hurricane / Flash Cannon
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Headlong Rush / Drain Punch
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave / Hurricane / Flash Cannon
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Add Slaking, remove Goodra-Hisui from no-recovery tanks, remove Regieleki from Electric Terrain (it's trash), remove Ninetales from Choice Banded breakers, add Walking Wake on Rain, remove Ribombee from hazard leads, remove Azumarill and Flygon from offensive sweepers, remove Revavroom from bulky physical sweepers, remove Clefable everywhere, remove Zapdos everywhere.
All of the Pokemon I stated above are either unviable or not categorized correctly.
Fair play on some of these, genuinely just forgot Walking Wake in rain. Goodra-Hisui is in no-recovery tanks because of the AV set which is probably like the eighth best set it can run but still viable. I don't have a strong take on Azumarill but I've seen enough people use it that I put it on there. Clefable just seems fine on paper but upon thinking about idk what it even does in here lol.
Flygon should definitely be on this list I think, it's not fully outclassed by either Salamence or Garchomp with Victory Dance making it more resilient to revenge killing than either, it also has some pretty colorful coverage. It's felt strong at cleaning up weakened HO and balance teams to me.
Ninetales is probably the biggest disagreement I have here. CB Ninetales is one of the best wallbreakers, it has much more power and speed than CB Volcanion and I have zero idea how it can be considered unviable.
it’s bad against Jolteon, the Ogerpon formes, and Garchomp, the BIGGEST offense threats atm
Azumarill does almost nothing into Toxapex and Clefable simply gets killed by the stronger STAB and coverage moves every Pokemon gets.
Flygon's coverage is very powerful if only it weren't on such a terrible Pokemon. All it gets is V-create (necessary to break through Corviknight, but allows easy revenging), Fusion Bolt (hits almost nothing that V-Create and Earthquake hit already), Triple Axel (kills other Dragons? although Scale Shot does this already), and Flower Trick (kills Quagsire and Swampert I guess). When you add on the fact that both Salamence and Garchomp are far more reliable sweepers with much higher attack stats, stronger STAB moves (Brave Bird + Glaive Rush), and greater bulk, Flygon is easily outclassed.
Ninetales offers less bulk and coverage compared to both Volcanion and Slaking. Both Volt Tackle and V-Create are extremely easy to predict compared to Volcanion being able to run mixed sets, Victory Dance, and Choice Band, and Slaking having very powerful Choice Band nuking options of Self-Destruct, Earthquake, and Knock Off, as well as the borderline unviable Skill Swap set. Ninetales doesn't even have a favorable chance to 2HKO Toxapex.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ninetales Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Volcanion V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 114-135 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Volcanion Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 100-118 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO