Metagame National Dex STABmons

Velcroc · Mar 31, 2024

approved by hidin

National Dex STABmons
Accepting artwork submissions :)

STABmons is the metagame where Pokemon have access to moves that match their type even if they can't normally learn them! Using Eevee as an example, it can now learn every Normal type move. This also applies to Pokemon that change type(s) during evolution. That means Eevee can pass Normal moves to all its Eeveelutions. New moves are "taught" as if they were TMs.

Council
:ditto: Amstan
:persian: RoFnA
:krookodile: Velcroc
:aegislash: NeonJolteonWasUsed
:venusaur-mega: seth

Banlist
Pokemon

:Araquanid: Araquanid
:arceus: Arceus (all formes)
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur
:blastoise-mega: Blastoise-Mega
:blaziken-mega: Blaziken-Mega
:basculegion: Basculegion
:basculegion-f: Basculegion-F
:calyrex-ice: Calyrex-Ice
:calyrex-shadow: Calyrex-Shadow
:chien-pao: Chien Pao
:chi-yu: Chi-Yu
:cloyster: Cloyster
:darkrai: Darkrai
:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-G
:deoxys: Deoxys
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:dialga: Dialga (all formes)
:dracovish:Dracovish
:dragapult: Dragapult
:dragonite: Dragonite
:enamorus: Enamorus
:espathra: Espathra
:eternatus: Eternatus
:flutter-mane: Flutter Mane
:Garchomp: Garchomp
:gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega
:genesect: Genesect (all formes)
:giratina: Giratina (all formes)
:groudon: Groudon (all formes)
:gouging-fire: Gouging Fire
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:iron bundle: Iron Bundle
:Kangaskhan-Mega: Kangaskhan-Mega
:kartana: Kartana
:koraidon: Koraidon
:komala: Komala
:kyogre: Kyogre (all formed)
:Kyurem: Kyurem
:Kyurem-black: Kyurem-B
:Kyurem-white: Kyurem-W
:landorus: Landorus-I
:lilligant-hisui: Lilligant-Hisui
:lucario-mega: Lucario-Mega
:lugia: Lugia
:lunala: Lunala
:magearna: Magearna (all formes)
:Manaphy: Manaphy
:marshadow: Marshadow
:metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:miraidon: Miraidon
:naganadel: Naganadel
:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-DW
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-DM
:ogerpon-hearthflame: Ogerpon-Hearthflame
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring
:palkia: Palkia (all formes)
:porygon-z: Porygon-Z
:pheromosa: Pheromosa
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:reshiram: Reshiram
:Salamence-mega: Salamence-Mega
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
:Silvally: Silvally
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:spectrier: Spectrier
:Tapu Koko: Tapu Koko
:Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele
:terapagos: Terapagos (all formes)
:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
:urshifu: Urshifu (single strike)
:walking wake: Walking Wake
:xerneas: Xerneas
:Xurkitree: Xurkitree
:yveltal: Yveltal
:zacian: Zacian (all formes)
:Zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned
:zekrom: Zekrom
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-H
:zygarde: Zygarde

Moves

Assist
Acupressure*
Astral Barrage*
Baton Pass
Belly Drum*
Bolt Beak*
Chatter*
Clangorous Soul*
Dire Claw*
Double Iron Bash*
Dragon Energy*
Electrify*
Extreme Speed*
Fillet Away*
Final Gambit*
Fishious Rend*
Geomancy*
Gigaton Hammer*
Last Respects
No Retreat*
Rage Fist*
Revival Blessing*
Shed Tail
Shell Smash*
Shift Gear*
Thousand Arrows*
Trick-or-Treat*
Triple Arrows*
V-Create*
Victory Dance*
Wicked Blow*
Wicked Torque*

Sleep Moves Clause, OHKO Clause, and Evasion clause are ON

* = Restricted onto native learners

Abilities

:Dugtrio: Arena Trap
:Glalie: Moody
:Gothitelle: Shadow Tag
:zygarde-complete: Power Construct

Items

:kings rock: King's Rock
:quick claw: Quick Claw
:razor fang: Razor Fang
:damp rock: Damp Rock

And banned megas' mega stones

Tiering

August 20, 2023 - Annihilape, Kingambit, and Kyurem are unbanned
October 1, 2023 - Terastallization and Sleep Moves are banned, Clangorous Soul is restricted, and Palafin, Roaring Moon, and Shedinja are unbanned
January 27, 2024 - Baxcalibur, Porygon-Z and Terapagos are quickbanned
April 14, 2024 - Pecharunt, Araquanid, Last Respects and Damp Rock are banned. Triple Arrows is restricted. Mega Alakazam and Regieleki are Unbanned.
July 17, 2024 - Ogerpon-Wellspring, Garchomp, Silvally, Xurkitree, Kyurem, Manaphy, Azumarill, and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon are banned! Trick-or-Treat and Rage Fist are restricted! Melmetal, Darkrai, and Deoxys-Speed are now unbanned!
July 30, 2024 - Pecharunt is now Unbanned in National Dex STABmons
August 11, 2024 - Ogerpon Hearthflame has been banned from National Dex STABmons!
October 30, 2024 - Darkrai, Gouging Fire, and Lilligant-Hisui are banned! Dragon Energy, Final Gambit, Wicked Torque are restricted! Basculegion-F remains banned!

Clauses

Endless Battle Clause: A player may not intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
- For example, a Slowbro holding a Leppa Berry can create an endless battle using the moves Recycle, Heal Pulse, Slack Off, and Block. To do so, Slowbro traps one of the opponent's Pokemon, PP stalls it, and heals Struggle damage indefinitely using Heal Pulse and Slack Off.
Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
Species Clause: A player may not have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
- For example, using a team with two Koffing would break this clause.
- Using different formes on the same team, such as Rotom-W and Rotom-C, also breaks the clause since they share the same Pokédex number (#479).
Sleep Moves Clause: A player may not use a move that induces sleep as a primary effect, such as Hypnosis.
Terastal Clause: A player may not Terastallize.

Resources

Frequently Asked Questions

Question: What about forme changes?
Answer: Similarly to how megas work, any forme changes that happen during battle won't transfer moves. Mega Evolution does not open up any new moves; this means Mega Lopunny cannot use moves like Thunderous Kick, Mega Charizard X cannot use Glaive Rush, and so forth. Castform is another good example of this, as it only changes type with the ability Forecast while in effect during a battle. Any forme changes that happen outside battle will transfer types, with a few exceptions. See the Forme Type Changes tag below for the full list.

Question: Do Paldean formes trade types with their normal counterparts (e.g. can Paldean Tauros learn all Normal, Fighting, Water, and Fire moves)?
Answer: No. Unless a Pokemon is either the direct evolution or an out-of-battle forme change of another Pokemon it cannot get moves from its type.

Question: Why can my Dark-type Kingambit now use Pursuit?
A: Moves that have been made unusable in the games code are usable here due to National Dex mechanics!

Question: Can my Goldeen still use Acupressure even though that move is banned?
Answer: Yep! The banned moves only apply to Pokemon that don't normally learn them.

Question: Can I teach Max Airstream, a Max Move, to my Pokemon?
Answer: No. Max moves are only available at the time of use when Dynamaxed and thus cannot be "taught" outside of battle.

Question: Why was X banned?
Answer: Check in the Discord.

Evolution Type Changes:

:gloom: -> :bellossom: Grass & Poison

-> :steelix: Ground, Steel, & Rock
:exeggcute: -> :exeggutor-alola: Grass, Psychic, & Dragon
:cubone: -> :marowak-alola: Ground, Ghost, & Fire
:scyther: -> :scizor: Bug, Flying, & Steel
:eevee:->:vaporeon::jolteon::flareon::espeon::umbreon::leafeon: :glaceon: :sylveon: Corresponding type & Normal
:pupitar: -> :tyranitar: Rock, Dark, & Ground
:azurill: -> :marill:/:azumarill: Normal, Fairy, & Water

->

Psychic, Fighting & Fairy
:nincada: -> :ninjask: Bug, Flying, & Ground or :shedinja: Bug, Ghost, & Ground
:swablu: -> :altaria: Normal, Flying, & Dragon
:mime_jr: -> :mr_rime: Psychic, Ice, and Fairy
:skorupi: -> :drapion: Dark, Poison, & Bug
:fletchling: -> :fletchinder: / :talonflame: Normal, Flying, & Fire
:skrelp: -> :dragalge: Water, Poison, & Dragon
:dartrix: -> :decidueye: Grass, Flying, and Ghost

Forme Type Changes:

Ghost, Electric, Water, Fire, Flying, Grass, & Ice are interchangeable between the Rotom formes. Last generation we had a special rule that prevented types from swapping but it felt arbitrary to include it when other formes can trade types so it was reversed.

:shaymin:
Flying moves are available to Shaymin due to its Sky forme existing outside of battle.

Every type is available to Silvally due to its ability RKS System

:necrozma::necrozma-dawn-wings::necrozma-dusk-mane:
Psychic, Ghost, and Steel are available to all three base Necrozma formes. It cannot get new Dragon moves, even if Necrozma-Ultra is reintroduced, as that forme is only obtainable in battle.

:calyrex::calyrex-ice::calyrex-shadow:
Psychic, Grass, Ice, and Ghost moves are available to all Calyrex formes. Spectrier and Glastrier do NOT get moves that are not their base type.

:ogerpon::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-hearthflame::ogerpon-wellspring:
Grass, Rock, Fire, and Water moves are available to all Ogerpon formes.

What doesn't apply:

The following Pokémon change only during battle and thus don't transfer types according to the rules of STABmons
:castform: :castform-rainy: :castform-snowy: :castform-sunny:
Only Normal moves are available to Castform.

:darmanitan: :darmanitan-galar: :darmanitan-zen: :darmanitan-galar-zen:
Only Fire and Ice moves are available to each Darmanitan forme, respectively.

:meloetta: :meloetta-pirouette:
Only Normal and Psychic moves are available to Meloetta.

This list may be updated as more Pokemon are released into Generation 9.

Codes

/challenge gen9nationaldex @@@ STABmons Move Legality, Sleep Moves Clause, Terastal Clause, +Alakazam-Mega, +Annihilape, +Deoxys-Speed, +Gholdengo, +Kingambit, +Melmetal, +Palafin, +Regieleki,+Roaring-Moon,+Shedinja, +Sneasler, +Zamazenta, -Araquanid,-Azumarill, -Basculegion,-Basculegion-F,-Cloyster, -Dragapult,-Dragonite,-Enamorus-Base, -Garchomp, -Kartana,-Komala,-Kyurem,-Lilligant-Hisui, -Manaphy, -Ogerpon-Wellspring,-Porygon-Z, -Silvally,-Tapu Koko,-Tapu Lele,-Terapagos,-Xurkitree,-Zoroark-Hisui, -Damp Rock, *Acupressure,-Assist, *Astral Barrage, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Chatter, *Clangorous Soul,*Dire Claw,*Double Iron Bash,*Dragon Energy,*Electrify,*Extreme Speed, *Fillet Away, *Final Gambit, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Gigaton Hammer,-Last Respects, *No Retreat,*Rage Fist, *Revival Blessing, -Shed Tail,*Shell Smash,*Shift Gear,*Thousand Arrows,*Trick-or-Treat,*Triple Arrows,*V-Create,*Victory Dance,*Wicked Blow,*Wicked Torque

/tour new gen9nationaldex,elim,,,[Gen 9] National Dex STABmons
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 5
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, Sleep Moves Clause, Terastal Clause, +Alakazam-Mega, +Annihilape, +Deoxys-Speed, +Gholdengo, +Kingambit, +Melmetal, +Palafin, +Regieleki,+Roaring-Moon,+Shedinja, +Sneasler, +Zamazenta, -Araquanid,-Azumarill, -Basculegion,-Basculegion-F,-Cloyster, -Dragapult,-Dragonite,-Enamorus-Base, -Garchomp, -Kartana,-Komala,-Kyurem,-Lilligant-Hisui, -Manaphy, -Ogerpon-Wellspring,-Porygon-Z, -Silvally,-Tapu Koko,-Tapu Lele,-Terapagos,-Xurkitree,-Zoroark-Hisui, -Damp Rock, *Acupressure,-Assist, *Astral Barrage, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Chatter, *Clangorous Soul,*Dire Claw,*Double Iron Bash,*Dragon Energy,*Electrify,*Extreme Speed, *Fillet Away, *Final Gambit, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Gigaton Hammer,-Last Respects, *No Retreat,*Rage Fist, *Revival Blessing, -Shed Tail,*Shell Smash,*Shift Gear,*Thousand Arrows,*Trick-or-Treat,*Triple Arrows,*V-Create,*Victory Dance,*Wicked Blow,*Wicked Torquea

Amstan · Mar 31, 2024

Sample Teams
The goal of this resource is to showcase good teams that are easy to pick up and use right away. This should aid players in familiarizing themselves with the current National Dex STABmons metagame. We will try to actively look over the sample teams and make sure that they stay up-to-date in order to reflect the current metagame as precisely as possible.

Hyper Offense:

~~:grimmsnarl: :garchomp: :iron-hands: :gholdengo: :gyarados-mega: :latias:~~ ~~- Hyper Offense by Velcroc~~

Balance/Bulky Offense:
:Rotom-Wash::Gholdengo::Tapu-Bulu::Ting-Lu::Aerodactyl-Mega::Magnezone:- Choice Band Tapu Bulu + Mega Aerodactyl BO by Runo
~~:Ogerpon-Wellspring::Ting-Lu::Celesteela::Gardevoir-Mega::skeledirge::Toxapex:- Ogerpon-Wellspring + Mega Gardevoir BO by Amstan~~
:Lilligant-Hisui::Toxapex::Gardevoir-Mega::celesteela::Ting-Lu::skeledirge: - Fightinium Z Lilligant-Hisui Balance by Amstan
~~:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon::Tapu-Bulu::Rotom-Wash::Latias-Mega::Kingambit::Landorus-Therian:~~ ~~- Boomburst Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Balance by Velcroc~~
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame::Toxapex::Ting-Lu::Iron-Valiant::Aegislash::Landorus-Therian: - Ogerpon-Hearthflame BO by Velcroc
:Weavile::Corviknight::Toxapex::Clefable::Landorus-Therian::Mawile-Mega: - Bulk Up + Power Trip Corviknight Balance by Velcroc
:Gardevoir-Mega::Tapu-Bulu::Terrakion::Heatran::Landorus-Therian::Toxapex: - Swords Dance Tapu Bulu + Choice Scarf Terrakion BO by hidin

Stall:
None yet!

Amstan · Mar 31, 2024

Viability Rankings
Welcome to the National Dex STABmons Viability Rankings! In this thread, we as a community, overlooked by the council, will attempt to rank every viable Pokemon in various tiers. Please be encouraged to post your thoughts on the viability of Pokemon in this thread!
Last Updated: January 3rd, 2025

S Rank
S
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Toxapex: Toxapex

S-
:Celesteela: Celesteela
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon
:Ting-Lu: Ting-Lu

A Ranks
A+
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo
:Kingambit: Kingambit
:Lopunny-mega: Mega Lopunny
:Melmetal: Melmetal
:Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta

A
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:Heatran: Heatran
:Iron Valiant: Iron Valiant
:Latias-mega: Mega Latias
:Mawile-mega: Mega Mawile
:Ogerpon Cornerstone: Ogerpon Cornerstone
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt
:Rotom Wash: Rotom Wash

A-
:Aerodactyl-mega: Mega Aerodactyl
:Charizard-mega-y: Mega Charizard Y
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed
:Diancie-mega: Mega Diancie
:Gliscor: Gliscor
:Great Tusk: Great Tusk
:Latios: Latios
:Latios-mega: Mega Latios
:Medicham-mega: Mega Medicham
:Scizor-mega: Mega Scizor
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian
:Tyranitar-mega: Mega Tyranitar
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Urshifu Rapid Strike
:Weavile: Weavile

B Ranks
B+
:Alakazam-mega: Mega Alakazam
:Aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
:Archaludon: Archaludon
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon
:Corviknight: Corviknight
:Gardevoir-mega: Mega Gardevoir
:Greninja: Greninja
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Iron Hands: Iron Hands
:Magnezone: Magnezone
:Mamoswine: Mamoswine
:Palafin-hero: Palafin
:Pecharunt: Pecharunt
:Seismitoad: Seismitoad
:Skarmory: Skarmory
:Skeledirge: Skeledirge
:Slowking Galar: Slowking Galar
:Tornadus-Therian: Tornadus-Therian
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar
:Venusaur-mega: Mega Venusaur
:Volcanion: Volcanion
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Zapdos: Zapdos
:Zapdos Galar: Zapdos Galar

B
:Aegislash: Aegislash
:Annihilape: Annihilape
:Blaziken: Blaziken
:Buzzwole: Buzzwole
:Charizard-mega-x: Mega Charizard X
:Clefable: Clefable
:Gallade-mega: Mega Gallade
:Gengar: Gengar
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Gyarados-mega: Mega Gyarados
:Heracross-mega: Heracross Mega
:Hoopa Unbound: Hoopa Unbound
:Hydrapple: Hydrapple
:Iron Moth: Iron Moth
:Keldeo: Keldeo
:Meloetta: Meloetta
:Salamence: Salamence
:Slowbro: Slowbro
:Steelix-mega: Mega Steelix
:Terrakion: Terrakion
:Thundurus: Thundurus
:Torkoal: Torkoal
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna
:Victini: Victini

B-
:Alomomola: Alomomola
:Altaria-mega: Mega Altaria
:Blissey: Blissey
:Ceruledge: Ceruledge
:Chansey: Chansey
:Cinderace: Cinderace
:Dondozo: Dondozo
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Hatterene: Hatterene
:Iron Crown: Iron Crown
:Moltres: Moltres
:Rotom Heat: Rotom Heat
:Slowbro-mega: Mega Slowbro
:Slowking: Slowking
:Sneasler: Sneasler

C Ranks
C+
:Clodsire: Clodsire
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Hawlucha: Hawlucha
:Heliolisk: Heliolisk
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon
:Iron Boulder: Iron Boulder
:Iron Jugulis: Iron Jugulis
:Meowscarada: Meowscarada
:Moltres Galar: Moltres Galar
:Ninetales Alola: Ninetales Alola
:Reuniclus: Reuniclus
:Ribombee: Ribombee
:Sableye-mega: Mega Sableye
:Samurott-Hisui: Samurott-Hisui
:Serperior: Serperior
:Sinistcha: Sinistcha
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Weezing Galar: Weezing Galar

C
:Abomasnow-mega: Mega Abomasnow
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Arcanine Hisui: Arcanine Hisui
:Barbaracle: Barbaracle
:Deoxys-Defense: Deoxys-Defense
:Diggersby: Diggersby
:Ditto: Ditto
:Drapion: Drapion
:Enamorus Therian: Enamorus Therian
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Glimmora: Glimmora
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads
:Jirachi: Jirachi
:Kingdra: Kingdra
:Kleavor: Kleavor
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o
:Latias: Latias
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:Marowak Alola: Marowak Alola
:Muk Alola: Muk Alola
:Necrozma: Necrozma
:Nidoking: Nidoking
:Ogerpon: Ogerpon
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Pidgeot-mega: Mega Pidgeot
:Scolipede: Scolipede
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail
:Shedinja: Shedinja
:Shuckle: Shuckle
:Swampert-mega: Mega Swampert
:Sylveon: Sylveon
:Tangrowth: Tangrowth
:Tinkaton: Tinkaton
:Arctozolt: Arctozolt

C-
:Barraskewda: Barraskewda
:Chesnaught: Chesnaught
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt
:Glastrier: Glastrier
:Indeedee: Indeedee
:Lokix: Lokix
:Metagross: Metagross
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu
:Nihilego: Nihilego
:Obstagoon: Obstagoon
:Okidogi: Okidogi
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Swampert: Swampert
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Zygarde-10:Zygarde-10
:Type-Null:Type: Null

Amstan · Mar 31, 2024

Speed Tiers
Greetings! The objective of this post is to lay out a visual list of all relevant speed tiers in the National Dex STABmons metagame. If you have any recommendations, please do not hesitate to post. However, do not suggest speed creeping.

Tier Zero

[ ∞ > x ≥ 500 ]

Speed	Sprite	Pokemon	Base	Nature	IVs	EVs	±
744	:barraskewda:	Barraskewda	136	Neutral	31	252	+2
634	:yanmega:	Yanmega	95	Positive	31	252	+2
606	:hawlucha:	Hawlucha	118	Neutral	31	124	+2
604	:excadrill:	Excadrill	88	Positive	31	252	+2
590	:kingdra:	Kingdra	85	Positive	31	252	+2
590	:ceruledge:	Ceruledge	85	Positive	31	252	+2
574	:blaziken:	Blaziken	80	Positive	31	252	+2
571	:iron-boulder:	Iron Boulder	124	Positive	31	252	+1
565	:greninja-ash:	Greninja	122	Positive	31	252	+1
555	:roaring-moon:	Roaring Moon	119	Positive	31	252	+1
550	:excadrill:	Excadrill	88	Neutral	31	252	+2
546	:iron-valiant:	Iron Valiant	116	Positive	31	252	+1
542	:drednaw:	Drednaw	74	Positive	31	252	+2
524	:Polteageist:	Polteageist	70	Positive	31	252	+2
519	:iron-jugulis:	Iron Jugilis	108	Positive	31	252	+1
516	:blacephalon:	Blacephalon	107	Positive	31	252	+1
513	:iron-treads:	Iron Treads	106	Positive	31	252	+1

Tier One

[ 500 > x ≥ 400 ]

496	:lilligant-hisui:	Lilligant-Hisui	105	Positive	31	252	+1
492	:gardevoir-mega:	Gardevoir-Mega	100	Positive	31	252	+1
492	:jirachi:	Jirachi	100	Positive	31	252	+1
492	:volcarona:	Volcarona	100	Positive	31	252	+1
492	:charizard-mega-x:	Mega Charizard X	100	Positive	31	252	+1
486	:iron-crown:	Iron Crown	98	Positive	31	252	+1
480	:dracozolt:	Dracozolt	75	Neutral	31	252	+2
475	:yanmega:	Yanmega	95	Positive	31	252	+1
475	:obstagoon:	Obstagoon	95	Positive	31	252	+1
463	:gouging-fire:	Gouging Fire	91	Positive	31	252	+1
450	:great-tusk:	Great Tusk	87	Positive	31	252	+1
448	:volcarona:	Volcarona	100	Neutral	31	252	+1
442	:kingdra:	Kingdra	85	Positive	31	252	+1
442	:kommo-o:	Kommo-O	85	Positive	31	252	+1
438	:Aerodactyl-Mega:	Aerodactyl-Mega	150	Positive	31	252	0
430	:gyarados-mega:	Gyarados-Mega	81	Positive	31	252	+1
427	:Beedrill-Mega:	Beedrill-Mega	145	Positive	31	252	0
426	:altaria-mega:	Altaria-Mega	80	Positive	31	252	+1
426	:hoopa-unbound:	Hoopa-U	80	Positive	31	252	+1
426	:blaziken:	Blaziken	80	Positive	31	252	+1
423	:Zeraora:	Zeraora	143	Positive	31	252	0
421	:gouging-fire:	Gouging Fire	91	Neutral	31	252	+1
420	:diggersby:	Diggersby	78	Positive	31	252	+1
408	:Barraskewda:	Barraskewda	136	Positive	31	252	0
405	:Lopunny-Mega:	Lopunny-Mega	135	Positive	31	252	0

Tier Two

[ 400 > x ≥ 300 ]

394	:aerodactyl:	aerodactyl	130	Positive	31	252	0
386	:Talonflame:	Talonflame	126	Positive	31	252	0
383	:Weavile:	Weavile	125	Positive	31	252	0
381	:Iron-Boulder:	Iron-Boulder	124	Positive	31	252	0
381	:Ribombee:	Ribombee	124	Positive	31	252	0
379	:Meowscarada:	Meowscarada	123	Positive	31	252	0
377	:Greninja:	Greninja	122	Positive	31	252	0
375	:Pidgeot-Mega:	Pidgeot-Mega	121	Positive	31	252	0
375	:Tornadus-Therian:	Tornadus-Therian	121	Positive	31	252	0
372	:alakazam:	alakazam	120	Positive	31	252	0
370	:Cinderace:	Cinderace	119	Positive	31	252	0
370	:Roaring-Moon:	Roaring-Moon	119	Positive	31	252	0
368	:Hawlucha:	Hawlucha	118	Positive	31	252	0
364	:Iron-Valiant:	Iron-Valiant	116	Positive	31	252	0
361	:Zygarde-10:	Zygarde-10	115	Positive	31	252	0
357	:Serperior:	Serperior	113	Positive	31	252	0
353	:Scream-Tail:	Scream-Tail	111	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Gengar:	Gengar	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Iron-Moth:	Iron-Moth	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Latias: (:latias-mega:)	Latias	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Latios: (:latios-mega:)	Latios	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Diancie-Mega:	Diancie-Mega	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:Gallade-Mega:	Gallade-Mega	110	Positive	31	252	0
350	:ogerpon-hearthflame: :ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon:	Ogerpon (all formes)	110	Positive	31	252	0
348	:Heliolisk:	Heliolisk	109	Positive	31	252	0
348	:Ninetales-Alola:	Ninetales-Alola	109	Positive	31	252	0
346	:Iron-Jugulis:	Iron-Jugulis	108	Positive	31	252	0
346	:Terrakion:	Terrakion	108	Positive	31	252	0
344	:Blacephalon:	Blacephalon	107	Positive	31	252	0
342	:Iron-Treads:	Iron-Treads	106	Positive	31	252	0
342	:Munkidori:	Munkidori	106	Positive	31	252	0
339	:Lilligant-Hisui:	Lilligant-Hisui	105	Positive	31	252	0
331	:Sandy-Shocks:	Sandy-Shocks	101	Positive	31	252	0
331	:Thundurus-Therian:	Thundurus-Therian	101	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Jirachi:	Jirachi	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Charizard-Mega-X:	Charizard-Mega-X	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Charizard-Mega-Y:	Charizard-Mega-Y	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Gardevoir-Mega:	Gardevoir-Mega	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Medicham-Mega:	Medicham-Mega	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Mew:	Mew	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Palafin:	Palafin	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Salamence:	Salamence	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Victini:	Victini	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Volcarona:	Volcarona	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Zapdos:	Zapdos	100	Positive	31	252	0
328	:Zapdos-Galar:	Zapdos-Galar	100	Positive	31	252	0
324	:Hydreigon:	Hydreigon	98	Positive	31	252	0
324	:Iron-Crown:	Iron-Crown	98	Positive	31	252	0
322	:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:	Urshifu-Rapid-Strike	97	Positive	31	252	0
317	:Obstagoon:	Obstagoon	95	Positive	31	252	0
317	:Yanmega:	Yanmega	95	Positive	31	252	0
315	:Tinkaton:	Tinkaton	94	Positive	31	252	0
315	:great-tusk:	Great Tusk	87	Neutral	31	0	+1
311	:Lokix:	Lokix	92	Positive	31	252	0
309	:Gouging-Fire:	Gouging-Fire	91	Positive	31	252	0
309	:Landorus-Therian:	Landorus-Therian	91	Positive	31	252	0
306	:Annihilape:	Annihilape	90	Positive	31	252	0
306	:Arcanine-Hisui:	Arcanine-Hisui	90	Positive	31	252	0
306	:Moltres:	Moltres	90	Positive	31	252	0
306	:Moltres-Galar:	Moltres-Galar	90	Positive	31	252	0
302	:Excadrill:	Excadrill	88	Positive	31	252	0
300	:Great-Tusk:	Great-Tusk	87	Positive	31	252	0

Tier Three

[ 300 > x ≥ 200 ]

299	:manaphy:	Manaphy	100	Neutral	31	252
298	:Glimmora:	Glimmora	86	Positive	31	252
298	:Rotom-Wash:	Rotom-Wash	86	Positive	31	252
295	:Archaludon:	Archaludon	85	Positive	31	252
295	:Ceruledge:	Ceruledge	85	Positive	31	252
295	:Kingdra:	Kingdra	85	Positive	31	252
295	:Kleavor:	Kleavor	85	Positive	31	252
295	:Kommo-o:	Kommo-o	85	Positive	31	252
295	:Samurott-Hisui:	Samurott-Hisui	85	Positive	31	252
293	:Gholdengo:	Gholdengo	84	Positive	31	252
287	:Gyarados:	Gyarados	81	Positive	31	252
287	:Gyarados-Mega:	Gyarados-Mega	81	Positive	31	252
284	:Blaziken:	Blaziken	80	Positive	31	252
284	:Hoopa-Unbound:	Hoopa-Unbound	80	Positive	31	252
284	:Mamoswine:	Mamoswine	80	Positive	31	252
284	:Altaria-Mega:	Altaria-Mega	80	Positive	31	252
284	:Okidogi:	Okidogi	80	Positive	31	252
284	:Togekiss:	Togekiss	80	Positive	31	252
282	:Buzzwole:	Buzzwole	79	Positive	31	252
281	:gouging-fire:	Gouging Fire	91	Neutral	31	252
280	:Diggersby:	Diggersby	78	Positive	31	252
278	:Heatran:	Heatran	77	Positive	31	252
273	:Heracross-Mega:	Heracross-Mega	75	Positive	31	252
273	:Tapu-Bulu:	Tapu-Bulu	75	Positive	31	252
271	:Drednaw:	Drednaw	74	Positive	31	252
262	:Decidueye:	Decidueye	70	Positive	31	252
262	:Swampert-Mega:	Swampert-Mega	70	Positive	31	252
262	:Metagross:	Metagross	70	Positive	31	252
262	:Polteageist:	Polteageist	70	Positive	31	252
262	:Volcanion:	Volcanion	70	Positive	31	252
250	:Altaria-Mega:	Altaria-Mega	80	Neutral	31	252
259	:Togekiss:	Togekiss	80	Neutral	31	252
257	:Buzzwole:	Buzzwole	79	Neutral	31	252
255	:zapdos:	Zapdos	100	Neutral	31	76
253	:Heatran:	Heatran	77	Neutral	31	252
249	:Tapu-Bulu:	Tapu-Bulu	75	Neutral	31	252
249	:Armarouge:	Armarouge	75	Neutral	31	252
248	:iron-treads:	Iron Treads	106	Neutral	31	0
240	:Dracozolt:	Dracozolt	75	Neutral	31	252
249	:Heracross-Mega:	Heracross-Mega	75	Neutral	31	252
241	:Tyranitar-Mega:	Tyranitar-Mega	71	Neutral	31	252
240	:aegislash:	aegislash	60	Positive	31	252
240	:Magnezone:	Magnezone	60	Positive	31	252
239	:Metagross:	Metagross	70	Positive	31	252
239	:Decidueye:	Decidueye	70	Neutral	31	252
239	:Swampert-Mega:	Swampert-Mega	70	Neutral	31	252
239	:Volcanion:	Volcanion	70	Neutral	31	252
236	:zapdos:	Zapdos	100	Neutral	31	0
236	:manaphy:	Manaphy	100	Neutral	31	0
232	:iron-crown:	Iron Crown	98	Neutral	31	0
229	:gliscor:	Gliscor	95	Neutral	31	12
229	:Crawdaunt:	Crawdaunt	55	Positive	31	252
229	:Golurk:	Golurk	55	Positive	31	252
224	:tinkaton:	Tinkaton	94	Neutral	31	0
221	:Tyranitar:	Tyranitar	61	Neutral	31	252
220	:Venusaur-Mega:	Venusaur-Mega	80	Neutral	31	96
220	:Gholdengo:	Gholdengo	84	Neutral	31	64
219	:Raging-Bolt:	Raging-Bolt	75	Neutral	31	132
219	:Scizor-Mega:	Scizor-Mega	75	Neutral	31	132
219	:aegislash:	aegislash	60	Neutral	31	252
219	:Magnezone:	Magnezone	60	Neutral	31	252
218	:landorus-therian:	Landorus-T	91	Neutral	31	0
216	:moltres:	Moltres	90	Neutral	31	0
216	:annihilape:	Annihilape	90	Neutral	31	0
216	:deoxys-defense:	Deoxys-D	90	Neutral	31	0
212	:pecharunt:	Pecharunt	88	Neutral	31	0
210	:great-tusk:	Great Tusk	87	Neutral	31	0
209	:Tyranitar-Mega:	Tyranitar-Mega	71	Neutral	31	125
209	:Crawdaunt:	Crawdaunt	55	Neutral	31	252
209	:Golurk:	Golurk	55	Neutral	31	252
208	:rotom-heat:	Rotom Heat	86	Neutral	31	0
206	:tapu-fini:	Tapu Fini	85	Neutral	31	0
204	:Gholdengo:	Gholdengo	84	Neutral	31	0

Tier Four

[ 200 > x ≥ 100 ]

199	:Iron-hands:	Iron Hands	50	Neutral	31	252
199	:Kingambit:	Kingambit	50	Neutral	31	252
199	:Mawile-Mega:	Mawile-Mega	50	Neutral	31	252
196	:mandibuzz:	Mandibuzz	80	Neutral	31	0
196	:Shedinja:	Shedinja	40	Positive	31	252
191	:Scizor-Mega:	Scizor-Mega	75	Neutral	31	20
190	:Heatran:	Heatran	77	Neutral	31	0
189	:Marowak-Alola:	Marowak-Alola	45	Neutral	31	252
176	:Skarmory:	Skarmory	70	Neutral	31	0
171	:Ursaluna:	Ursaluna	50	Neutral	31	140
170	:Corviknight:	Corviknight	67	Neutral	31	0
168	:Skeledirge:	Skeledirge	66	Neutral	31	0
166	:Pelipper:	Pelipper	65	Neutral	31	0
164	:Chesnaught:	Chesnaught	64	Neutral	31	0
158	:Celesteela:	Celesteela	61	Neutral	31	0
156	:Sylveon:	Sylveon	60	Neutral	31	0
156	:Grimmsnarl:	Grimmsnarl	60	Neutral	31	0
156	:Swampert:	Swampert	60	Neutral	31	0
156	:Clefable:	Clefable	60	Neutral	31	0
156	:Weezing-Galar:	Weezing-Galar	60	Neutral	31	0
146	:Blissey:	Blissey	55	Neutral	31	0
136	:Tangrowth:	Tangrowth	50	Neutral	31	0
136	:Muk-Alola:	Muk-Alola	50	Neutral	31	0
136	:Chansey:	Chansey	50	Neutral	31	0
130	:Hippowdon:	Hippowdon	47	Neutral	31	0
128	:Enamorus-Therian:	Enamorus-Therian	46	Neutral	31	0
127	:Hydrapple:	Hydrapple	44	Neutral	31	12
126	:Ting-Lu:	Ting-Lu	45	Neutral	31	0
114	:Gastrodon:	Gastrodon	39	Neutral	31	0
106	:Dondozo:	Dondozo	35	Neutral	31	0
106	:Quagsire:	Quagsire	35	Neutral	31	0
109	:Reuniclus:	Reuniclus	30	Neutral	31	52
108	:Hatterene:	Hatterene	29	Neutral	31	56

Tier Five

[ 100 > x ≥ 0 ]

96	:Slowbro-Mega:	Slowbro-Mega	30	Neutral	31
96	:Slowbro-Galar:	Slowbro-Galar	30	Neutral	31
96	:Steelix-Mega:	Steelix-Mega	30	Neutral	31
76	:clodsire:	Clodsire	20	Neutral	31
76	:Camerupt-Mega:	Camerupt-Mega	20	Neutral	31
76	:Sableye-Mega:	Sableye-Mega	20	Neutral	31
76	:Torkoal:	Torkoal	20	Neutral	31
76	:Ferrothorn:	Ferrothorn	20	Neutral	31
67	:Toxapex:	Toxapex	35	Negative	0
58	:Slowking-Galar:	Slowking-Galar	30	Negative	0
58	:Slowking:	Slowking	30	Negative	0
58	:slowbro:	Slowbro	30	Negative	0

Amstan · Mar 31, 2024

OP stolen from last gen

Role Compendium

The purpose of this thread is to provide a visual list organized by roles to see what Pokémon do what. This will help new and experienced players alike in finding Pokémon that fit their teams when looking for specific roles. Each Pokemon that is here is viable in the OU metagame, and as such, it will change as the viability rankings get updated. If you feel there is a Pokemon viable for the roles mentioned below and it hasn't been added to the group, then recommend it in your post with solid explanations. The order of roles will be organized in the following way:

Utility (hazard setters and removers)
Offensive roles (wallbreakers, choice item users, and setup sweepers)
Defensive roles (walls)
Weather (rain and sun) and Trick Room

Note - Pokemon listed to the right of a | are considered niche options in that given role, or niche options in general.

:Silvally:- This pokemon was removed to conserve space, but it (and most of its viable types) fits under nearly every category due to having access to every legal move.

Utility
Entry Hazards
Ceaseless Edge - :crawdaunt::greninja::kingambit::meowscarada::Obstagoon::roaring-moon::sableye-mega::ting-lu::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::weavile:|:grimmsnarl::Mandibuzz::Muk Alola::Samurott-Hisui:
Stealth Rock / Stone Axe - :Aerodactyl-Mega::aerodactyl::blissey::chansey::clefable::clodsire::diancie-mega::excadrill::ferrothorn::garchomp::gastrodon::gliscor::great-tusk::Heatran::hippowdon::landorus-therian::mamoswine::swampert-mega::swampert::terrakion::ting-lu::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar:|:annihilape::Arcanine Hisui::archaludon::Camerupt-Mega::Deoxys-Defense::glimmora::hydreigon::Iron Treads::jirachi::Kleavor::kommo-o::Metagross::Mew::Quagsire::Sandy Shocks::Scream Tail::Skarmory::Steelix-Mega::Tinkaton::torkoal:
Spikes - :clodsire::excadrill::ferrothorn::garchomp::gastrodon::gliscor::great-tusk::hippowdon::landorus-therian::mamoswine::swampert-mega::swampert::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::ursaluna-bloodmoon::ursaluna:|:Camerupt-Mega::Chesnaught::Deoxys-Defense::Diggersby::glimmora::Iron Treads::Marowak Alola::Quagsire::Sandy Shocks::Shedinja::Skarmory::Steelix-Mega::Zygarde-10:
Toxic Spikes - :clodsire::glimmora::gliscor::slowking-galar::toxapex::venusaur-mega::weezing-galar:|:Amoonguss::meowscarada::Mew::Muk Alola::Munkidori::pecharunt::Slowbro Galar::sneasler:
Sticky Web - |:Kleavor::Shedinja:

Suicide Leads
Hazard Setters - :aerodactyl::diancie-mega::excadrill::glimmora::great-tusk: :greninja::grimmsnarl::landorus-therian:|:annihilape::Iron Treads::Kleavor::meowscarada::Mew::Sandy Shocks::Shedinja:
Screen Setters - :grimmsnarl:
Hazard Control
Rapid Spin - :blissey::chansey::clefable::excadrill::great-tusk::ursaluna-bloodmoon:|:altaria-mega::Diggersby::Obstagoon::sylveon::Togekiss::ursaluna:
Defog -:celesteela::corviknight::enamorus-therian::gliscor::landorus-therian::moltres::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::tapu-fini::weezing-galar::zapdos:|:hydreigon::Mandibuzz::Mew::moltres-galar::pelipper::salamence::scizor-Mega::Serperior::Togekiss:
Magic Bounce -:diancie-mega::hatterene::sableye-mega:
Mortal Spin - :clodsire::glimmora::pecharunt::slowking-galar::toxapex::venusaur-mega::weezing-galar:|:Amoonguss::Muk Alola::Slowbro Galar:
Court Change - :clefable::heliolisk::lopunny-mega:|:Cinderace::Indeedee:
Tidy Up - :altaria-mega::blissey::clefable::Diggersby::lopunny-mega::Obstagoon::sylveon::ursaluna:|:Indeedee:

Trapping
Anchor Shot - :aegislash::celesteela::corviknight::excadrill::ferrothorn::jirachi::kingambit::mawile-mega::scizor-Mega:|:Iron Treads::Metagross::Skarmory::Steelix-Mega::Tinkaton:
Pursuit -:Aerodactyl-Mega::aerodactyl::crawdaunt::greninja::hoopa-unbound::kingambit::meowscarada::Obstagoon::scizor-Mega::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::weavile:|:Kleavor::Lokix::Samurott-Hisui:
Magma Storm - :charizard-mega-y::Heatran::iron-moth::moltres::rotom-heat::rotom-wash:|:Camerupt-Mega::torkoal:
Magnet Pull - :magnezone:
Thousand Waves - :clodsire::excadrill::garchomp::gastrodon::gliscor::great-tusk::hippowdon::landorus-therian::mamoswine::swampert-mega::swampert::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::ursaluna:|:Diggersby::Garchomp-mega::Golurk::Iron Treads::Shedinja::Steelix-Mega::Zygarde-10:
Other - dm me or Runo if you have anything

Misc.
Beak Blast - :Aerodactyl-Mega::aerodactyl::celesteela::corviknight::enamorus-therian::gliscor::landorus-therian::moltres::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::salamence::scizor-Mega::zapdos:|:altaria-mega::Decidueye::Kleavor::Mandibuzz::pelipper::Skarmory::Talonflame::Togekiss:
Encore - :clefable::iron-valiant::lilligant-hisui::lopunny-mega::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-wellspring::ogerpon-hearthflame::victini:|:altaria-mega::azumarill::Diggersby::heliolisk::Indeedee::Pidgeot Mega::Scream Tail::sylveon::Tinkaton:
Future Sight - :iron-crown::Slowbro::slowking-galar::slowking:
Knock Off (Defensively) - :alomomola::Deoxys-Defense::ferrothorn::gliscor::sableye-mega::scizor-Mega::swampert-mega::swampert::tangrowth::ting-lu::toxapex::venusaur-mega:|:Chesnaught::Decidueye::grimmsnarl::Mandibuzz::Mew::Okidogi::pelipper::Serperior::Tinkaton:
Knock Off (Offensively) - :azumarill::crawdaunt::Gallade-mega::greninja::hoopa-unbound::kingambit::Lokix::mamoswine::mawile-mega::meowscarada::Obstagoon::roaring-moon::scizor-Mega::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::weavile::zapdos-galar::zeraora:|:Diggersby::Metagross::Muk Alola::Samurott-Hisui:
Scald - :alomomola::gastrodon::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::Slowbro::slowbro-mega::slowking-galar::slowking::swampert-mega::swampert::tapu-fini::toxapex:|:dondozo::manaphy::Quagsire::Slowbro Galar:
Taunt - :aerodactyl::annihilape::greninja::gyarados-mega::gyarados::kommo-o::meowscarada::moltres-galar::roaring-moon:|:Deoxys-Defense::grimmsnarl::Mew::Okidogi::Serperior:
Trick / Switcheroo - :blacephalon::clefable::crawdaunt::greninja::iron-jugulis::iron-valiant::jirachi::latios::roaring-moon::Samurott-Hisui::tapu-fini::victini::weavile:|:Indeedee::Latias::Lokix::Munkidori::Togekiss::tyranitar:
Thunder Wave / Glare / Stun Spore / Nuzzle - :blissey::chansey::clefable::ferrothorn::gholdengo::hatterene::heliolisk::jirachi::lopunny-mega::Obstagoon::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::slowking-galar::slowking::sylveon::tangrowth::tapu-bulu::ursaluna-bloodmoon::ursaluna::venusaur-mega::zapdos::zeraora:|:archaludon::Diggersby::grimmsnarl::Ribombee::Scream Tail::Serperior::Tinkaton::Togekiss::Zygarde-10:
Toxic / Malignant Chain - :alomomola::altaria-mega::blissey::buzzwole::celesteela::chansey::clefable::clodsire::ferrothorn::gastrodon::gliscor::hippowdon::kyurem::landorus-therian::moltres::pecharunt::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::sableye-mega::salamence::scizor-Mega::slowking-galar::slowking::swampert-mega::swampert::sylveon::tangrowth::tapu-bulu::toxapex::tyranitar::venusaur-mega::victini::weezing-galar::zapdos::zeraora:|:Amoonguss::Camerupt-Mega::Deoxys-Defense::Mandibuzz::Metagross::Mew::pelipper::Quagsire::Steelix-Mega::torkoal:
Will-O-Wisp - :altaria-mega::blacephalon::Heatran::moltres::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::sableye-mega::skeledirge::victini::weezing-galar:|:Arcanine Hisui::Cinderace::Mew::Shedinja::Talonflame::torkoal:

Offensive Roles
Wallbreakers
Physical - :aegislash::araquanid::Aerodactyl-Mega::aerodactyl::annihilape::azumarill::barraskewda::blaziken::buzzwole::ceruledge::charizard-mega-x::crawdaunt::excadrill::garchomp::gouging-fire::great-tusk::gyarados-mega::gyarados::hawlucha::heracross-mega::hoopa-unbound::iron-boulder::iron-hands::iron-valiant::kingambit::landorus-therian::lilligant-hisui::lopunny-mega::mamoswine::mawile-mega::medicham-mega::meowscarada::Obstagoon::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-hearthflame::ogerpon-wellspring::roaring-moon::salamence::Samurott-Hisui::scizor-Mega::tapu-bulu::terrakion::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::ursaluna::Urshifu-rapid-strike::victini::weavile::zamazenta::zapdos-galar::zeraora:|:Arcanine Hisui::Cinderace::Diggersby::Dracozolt::Drednaw::Gallade-mega::Garchomp-mega::Golurk::Kleavor::Lokix::Marowak Alola::Metagross::Mimikyu::Minior::Zygarde-10:
Special - :aegislash::Alakazam::altaria-mega::blacephalon::charizard-mega-y::diancie-mega::gholdengo::greninja::Heatran::heliolisk::hoopa-unbound::hydrapple::hydreigon::iron-jugulis::iron-moth::iron-valiant::keldeo::kommo-o::kyurem::latios-mega::latios::magnezone::manaphy::meloetta::moltres-galar::moltres::raging-bolt::reuniclus::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::salamence::sylveon::thundurus-therian::thundurus::ursaluna-bloodmoon::victini::xurkitree::zapdos:|:archaludon::Armarouge::Camerupt-Mega::Indeedee::Kingdra::Munkidori::Pidgeot Mega::Sandy Shocks::Serperior::Togekiss::Yanmega:
Mixed - :aegislash::diancie-mega::garchomp::hoopa-unbound::iron-valiant::kommo-o::victini:|:Dracozolt::Garchomp-mega:

Choice Users
Choice Band - :araquanid::aerodactyl::azumarill::buzzwole::crawdaunt::hoopa-unbound::iron-hands::kingambit::mamoswine::meowscarada::roaring-moon::tapu-bulu::terrakion::tyranitar::Urshifu-rapid-strike::victini::weavile::zamazenta::zapdos-galar:|:Arcanine Hisui::barraskewda::Diggersby::Golurk::Lokix::Samurott-Hisui::Zygarde-10:
Choice Specs - :blacephalon::greninja::hoopa-unbound::hydreigon::iron-jugulis::iron-valiant::keldeo::kyurem::latios::magnezone::meloetta::sylveon::ursaluna-bloodmoon:|:Armarouge::Indeedee::Kingdra::Munkidori::Sandy Shocks::Yanmega:
Choice Scarf - :blacephalon::gholdengo::greninja::iron-valiant::jirachi::keldeo::landorus-therian::meowscarada::roaring-moon::rotom-wash::tapu-fini::Urshifu-rapid-strike::zapdos-galar:|:Arcanine Hisui::Diggersby::heliolisk::hydreigon::Indeedee::Kleavor::Latias::latios::meloetta::Munkidori::Samurott-Hisui::Sandy Shocks::Serperior::Togekiss::victini:

Set-Up Sweepers
Bulk Up - :annihilape::buzzwole::ceruledge::corviknight::great-tusk::palafin-hero::sableye-mega::zamazenta::zapdos-galar::zeraora:
Beast Boost - :blacephalon::buzzwole::celesteela::xurkitree:|
Belly Drum - :azumarill::iron-hands:|:Diggersby:
Calm Mind - :clefable::diancie-mega::enamorus-therian::hatterene::iron-crown::iron-valiant::latias-mega::Latias::latios-mega::latios::meloetta::slowbro-mega::tapu-fini:|:Armarouge::Indeedee:
Clangerous Soul / Clangerous Soulblaze - :kommo-o:|
Cosmic Power - :hatterene::iron-crown::latias-mega:|:Deoxys-Defense::Mew::Scream Tail:
Dragon Dance - :Aerodactyl-Mega::aerodactyl::charizard-mega-x::garchomp::gouging-fire::gyarados-mega::gyarados::kommo-o::kyurem::roaring-moon::salamence::tyranitar-mega:|:Garchomp-mega::Zygarde-10:
Iron Defense - :corviknight::ferrothorn::magnezone:|:Armarouge::Steelix-Mega:
Nasty Plot - :gholdengo::greninja::hoopa-unbound::hydreigon::iron-jugulis::moltres-galar::thundurus-therian::thundurus:|:Alakazam::Togekiss:
Rage Fist - :aegislash::annihilape::ceruledge::pecharunt::sableye-mega:|:Decidueye::Golurk::Mimikyu:
Shell Smash - |:Drednaw::Minior:
Speed Boost - :blaziken:|:Yanmega:
Swords Dance - :aegislash::azumarill::blaziken::ceruledge::crawdaunt::excadrill::Gallade-mega::garchomp::gliscor::hawlucha::heracross-mega::iron-boulder::iron-hands::iron-valiant::kingambit::landorus-therian::lopunny-mega::Marowak Alola::mawile-mega::Obstagoon::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-hearthflame::ogerpon-wellspring::scizor-Mega::sneasler::tapu-bulu::terrakion::ursaluna::Urshifu-rapid-strike::weavile:|:Cinderace::Diggersby::Garchomp-mega::Mimikyu::Samurott-Hisui::Shedinja::Talonflame:
Tail Glow - :araquanid::manaphy::xurkitree:|:Shedinja::Yanmega:
Tidy Up - :altaria-mega::lopunny-mega::Obstagoon::ursaluna:|:Diggersby:
Torch Song - :charizard-mega-y::Heatran::iron-moth::moltres::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::skeledirge::victini:|:Armarouge:
Victory Dance - :lilligant-hisui:
Omniboost - | :azumarill::Diggersby::glimmora::gholdengo::hoopa-unbound::houndstone::jirachi::meloetta::pecharunt::rotom-wash::Togekiss:
Celebrate Clones (Normal) / Trick or Treat (Ghost) / Forest's Curse (Grass) / Poison (Purify)

Priority
Jet Punch - :araquanid::azumarill::barraskewda::crawdaunt::gyarados-mega::gyarados::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-hearthflame::ogerpon-wellspring::palafin-hero::Samurott-Hisui:|:dondozo:
Bullet Punch - :aegislash::kingambit::mawile-mega::scizor-Mega:|:Metagross:
Fake Out - :lopunny-mega::medicham-mega:|:Diggersby:
Ice Shard - :weavile:
Grassy Glide - :tapu-bulu:
Quick Attack - :lopunny-mega::Obstagoon::ursaluna:|:Diggersby:
Shadow Sneak - :aegislash::ceruledge:|:Marowak Alola::Shedinja:
Sucker Punch - :crawdaunt::hoopa-unbound::kingambit::mawile-mega::meowscarada::Obstagoon::roaring-moon::weavile:|:Cinderace::Lokix::Muk Alola:
Extreme Speed -|:Arcanine Hisui::Zygarde-10:
Water Shuriken - :araquanid::greninja::keldeo::rotom-wash::tapu-fini:|:Kingdra::rotom-heat:
Thunderclap - :heliolisk::magnezone::raging-bolt::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::thundurus-therian::thundurus::xurkitree:|:zapdos:
First Impression - :araquanid::buzzwole::Kleavor:|:scizor-Mega::Lokix:
Mach Punch - :buzzwole::heracross-mega::iron-hands::iron-valiant::medicham-mega::terrakion::zamazenta::zapdos-galar:|:great-tusk::Okidogi:

Pivoting
U-turn - :araquanid::buzzwole::corviknight::gliscor::greninja::hydreigon::iron-moth::jirachi::landorus-therian::lopunny-mega::meowscarada::moltres::ogerpon-cornerstone::ogerpon-hearthflame::ogerpon-wellspring::pelipper::roaring-moon::scizor-Mega::Urshifu-rapid-strike::victini::zapdos-galar::zapdos:|:Cinderace::Decidueye::Diggersby::heracross-mega::Kleavor::Lokix::Mandibuzz::Mew::Munkidori::Pidgeot Mega::Shedinja::sneasler::Talonflame::Yanmega:
Volt Switch - :heliolisk::iron-crown::magnezone::raging-bolt::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::thundurus-therian::thundurus::zapdos::zeraora:|:Dracozolt::iron-hands::Iron Treads::Sandy Shocks::xurkitree:
Flip Turn - :araquanid::alomomola::azumarill::barraskewda::crawdaunt::gastrodon::greninja::gyarados::keldeo::latios-mega::latios::palafin-hero::Samurott-Hisui::swampert-mega::swampert::tapu-fini::toxapex:|:Kingdra:
Teleport - :blissey::hatterene::slowbro::slowking-galar::slowking:|:chansey::Deoxys-Defense::Mew::Scream Tail::Slowbro Galar:
Chilly Reception -|:kyurem::ninetales-alola::weavile:
Parting Shot - :grimmsnarl::hoopa-unbound::hydreigon::meowscarada::moltres-galar::Obstagoon::sableye-mega::ting-lu::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar::weavile:|:Mandibuzz::Muk Alola:

Defensive Roles
Walls
Physically Defensive - :alomomola::altaria-mega::buzzwole::celesteela::corviknight::dondozo::enamorus-therian::hatterene::hippowdon::landorus-therian::moltres::pecharunt::rotom-heat::rotom-wash::sableye-mega::scizor-Mega::skeledirge::slowbro-mega::slowbro::tangrowth::tapu-bulu::tapu-fini::toxapex::venusaur-mega:|:Amoonguss::azumarill::Chesnaught::Okidogi::Quagsire::weezing-galar:
Specially Defensive - :blissey::celesteela::chansey::clodsire::gliscor::Heatran::slowking-galar::ting-lu::toxapex::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar:|:hydrapple::moltres-galar::Muk Alola::reuniclus::Tinkaton:
Mixed - :alomomola::altaria-mega::annihilape::celesteela::clefable::corviknight::ferrothorn::garchomp::gastrodon::gholdengo::gliscor::great-tusk::hippowdon::landorus-therian::latias-mega::pecharunt::reuniclus::sableye-mega::scizor-Mega::skeledirge::slowking-galar::slowking::swampert::tangrowth::tapu-bulu::tapu-fini::toxapex::ursaluna-bloodmoon:|:Amoonguss::Deoxys-Defense::Mandibuzz::Mew::moltres-galar::Scream Tail::Shedinja::Steelix-Mega::swampert-mega::Tinkaton::Togekiss:

Clerics
Wish - :alomomola::blissey::chansey::clefable::Scream Tail::sylveon::Togekiss::ursaluna-bloodmoon:
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy - :altaria-mega::blissey::chansey::clefable::Mew::Serperior::tapu-bulu::Togekiss::ursaluna-bloodmoon::venusaur-mega::weezing-galar:
Healing Wish / Lunar Dance- :hatterene::jirachi::latios::lilligant-hisui::lopunny-mega::meloetta::victini:|:Alakazam::Armarouge::Deoxys-Defense::enamorus-therian::Indeedee::Latias::Mew::Munkidori::reuniclus::Scream Tail:

Weather and Trick Room
Rain
Drizzle - :pelipper:
Swift Swim - :barraskewda::swampert-mega:|:Drednaw::Kingdra:
Other Abusers - :araquanid::archaludon::azumarill::crawdaunt::ferrothorn::greninja::iron-jugulis::keldeo::manaphy::ogerpon-wellspring::palafin-hero::thundurus-therian::Urshifu-rapid-strike::weavile::zapdos:|:gyarados-mega::gyarados::moltres-galar::Yanmega:

Sand
Sand Stream - :hippowdon::tyranitar-mega::tyranitar:
Sand Rush - :excadrill::houndstone:|:Dracozolt:
Other Abusers - :clefable::Reuniclus:|:Garchomp-mega::Steelix-Mega:

Snow
Snow Warning - :ninetales-alola:
Slush Rush - :arctozolt:|:Arctovish:
Other Abusers - :kyurem:

Sun
Drought - :charizard-mega-y::torkoal:
Chlorophyll - :lilligant-hisui:|:VEnusaur:
Other Abusers - :blacephalon::blaziken::gouging-fire::great-tusk::Heatran::iron-moth::moltres::ogerpon-hearthflame::victini:|:Arcanine Hisui::Darmanitan:

Trick Room
Setters - :Deoxys-Defense::hatterene::Mew::slowbro::slowking-galar::slowking::Cresselia::Porygon2:
Abusers - :araquanid::aegislash::azumarill::Camerupt-Mega::crawdaunt::Golurk::iron-hands::kingambit::Marowak Alola::mawile-mega:
Note: Trick Room is a niche playstyle so all of its abusers are niche

Psychic Terrain
Setters - :Indeedee:
Abusers -:Armarouge::diancie-mega::Drednaw::sneasler:
Note: Psychic Terrain is a niche playstyle so all of its abusers are niche

Amstan · Mar 31, 2024

Set Compendium
Made by NeonJolteonWasUsed
Here showcases the sets of all the viable Pokemon in National Dex STABmons! You may use it to take ideas or to use it as a reference when facing Pokemon in the metagame.
https://pokepast.es/fccedeb65d98e192

Velcroc · Apr 14, 2024

Seems like with every ban slate, I have to announce a new council change. I'm pleased to announce that NatDex OU council member hidin has joined the ND STABmons council and is voting for this slate. Unfortunately, Runo has elected to retire from the council for the time being, and this will be the last slate they're voting for. It's been a pleasure having you on the team.

With that out of the way, here's the announcement you've all been waiting for:

Pecharunt, Araquanid, Last Respects and Damp Rock are banned. Triple Arrows is restricted. Mega Alakazam and Regieleki are Unbanned.
Tagging the venerable dhelmise to implement these changes. Gracias.

Bans

	Amstan	RoFnA	Runo	Velcroc	Hidin	Outcome
Pecharunt	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Araquanid	Ban	Ban	abstain	Ban	Ban	Banned
Ogerpon-Wellspring	Ban	DNB	DNB	DNB	Ban	Not Banned
Silvally	DNB	DNB	abstain	abstain	DNB	Not Banned
Garchomp	Ban	Ban	abstain	DNB	DNB	Not Banned
Triple Arrows	Restrict	Restrict	DNR	Restrict	Restrict	Restricted
Last Respects	Ban	Ban	DNB	Ban	Ban	Banned
Damp Rock	Ban	Ban	DNB	DNB	Ban	Banned

Unbans

	Amstan	RoFnA	Runo	Velcroc	Hidin	Outcome
Mega Alakazam	Unban	Do Not Unban	abstain	Unban	Unban	Unbanned
Regieleki	Unban	Unban	Unban	Unban	Unban	Unbanned

:sv/pecharunt:
Pecharunt was contentious when it was first announced, as it had access to Coil and the move Rage Fist. With its sky-high defensive stat, Pecharunt could withstand even super-effective Earthquakes and retaliate with boosted Rage Fists. The last slot was normally reserved for Mortal Spin to poison checks like Ting-Lu and Tyranitar, ensuring that even resists get punished for switching it. Although the Tera ban did hurt it, it still continued to demolish teams with relative ease. We went with the route of banning Pecharunt rather than restricting Rage Fist, as it had an overwhelming effect on the metagame and was far more ubiquitous than Aegislash or Mega Sableye. We will revisit this Pokemon if we decide to restrict Rage Fist over banning its remaining abusers (Aegislash and Mega Sableye).

:sv/araquanid:
Like Pecharunt, the council kept Araquanid around to test whether it would be broken following the ban on Tera. Araquanid passed with flying colours. Tail Glow + Water Shuriken is already a contentious combination on something like Manaphy, but when you augment the power with Water Bubble, you get a completely different beast. The scariest part about this mon is that you can freely set up on Assault Vest Toxapex (a Pokemon which, in theory, should counter you) with Substitute sets.

:sv/houndstone: :sv/basculegion: :sv/basculegion-f:
Last respects is now completely banned from STABmons. While this move was restricted, the Pokemon that naturally learnt it (houndstone and the basculegions) gained new tools in STABmons. Basculegions were banned as their already impressive STAB combination bolstered by Last Respects provided devastating in the builder and in-game. Houndstone was initially dismissed for being reliant on Sand Rush sets to make it work, but a new set popped up on the ladder that utilised the move to its fullest extent: Z-Trick-or-Treat Houndstone. With an omniboost and Fluffy to boost, Houndstone became tricky to reliably revenge-kill and could end up sweeping games at the drop of a hat. As a result, we have banned the move completely, and we will most likely vote on Basculegion to drop once the metagame stabilises.

:damp-rock: :sv/pelipper:
Rain is banned in SV STABmons, and now National Dex STABmons follows suit. While we do have a greater depth in counterplay compared to regular STAB, like Tapu Bulu, Mega Latias and Ferrothorn, Rain still has a constricting influence on the teambuilder simply due to the fact that it bolsters already strong Pokemon like Ogerpon-Wellspring, Crawdaunt and Azumarill. Jet Punch and Water Shuriken are ubiquitous priority moves and having them boosted even further for 7 turns is constricting by itself. Rain is also a very flexible archetype that can fit a variety of Pokemon to combat its supposed checks. Archaludon makes Tapu Bulu (particularly Choice Band sets) think twice before clicking Grassy Glide, while Pokemon like Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian and Zapdos can revenge Bulu (when healthy). As for defensive Dragons and Grasses, Rain teams can overwhelm these teams by layering Water-types like Manaphy, Azumarill, Urshifu and Crawdaunt or even run niche options like Weavile to punish passive plays. This level of flexibility is overwhelming for the metagame, and thus, Damp Rock has been banned.

⇶ :sv/decidueye-hisui:
Triple Arrows was restricted because it is simply uncompetitive to keep as a move. Triple Arrows, in tandem with set-up sweepers, is a nightmare fuel for any team to handle. Sweepers like Blaziken, Zamazenta and Iron Valiant could completely invalidate their checks with Defense drops and Flinches, and even Fighting-types you wouldn't expect to sweep (like Great Tusk) love getting free turns with flinches. The fact that this move is non-contact is a cherry on top for helping dodge Burning Bulwark and Beak Blast. While a Covert Cloak is an option that helped deal with it, it's a band-aid solution to an arrow hole. Not a particularly flashy ban, but trust me on this: the less hax, the better.

:sv/alakazam-mega:

Mega Alakazam was unbanned on the ladder due to an oversight by the Council and Staff. Unlike last month where Yveltal and Giratina-O dominated the AAA ladder, the council felt that Mega Alakazam was held back by the generally offensive pace of the metagame. While on paper it sounds ridiculous with moves like Nasty Plot + Psytrike or Lumina Crash, Mega Alakazam faces roadblocks like Ting-Lu and Celesteela that can withstand its hits. Similarly, it does not appreciate the pace of the metagame where most priority moves (Jet Punch, Sucker Punch, First Impression, Loaded Dice Water Shuriken, and Shadow Sneak) chunk it for massive damage. This forces a predicament where Mega Alakazam is either forced to pick 2 of Nasty Plot, Substitute or Coverage move. The council will be keeping a close eye on Mega Alakazam as even a nerfed Alakazam is an incredibly scary Pokemon.

:sv/regieleki:
Regieleki was elected by the council as the first Pokemon we will be freeing. While there are other Pokemon that do deserve a fair go at returning to the tier, Regieleki is by far the least likely to be broken. We all know what Tera Regieleki does, so I don't think I need to clarify this. While it does get stronger electric STAB here in Electroshot and Electro Drift (+ Thunderclap priority), it is highly unlikely that Regieleki will be an overwhelming Pokemon for the tier as it now struggles to dent every virtually viable Ground-type in the tier (and most unviable ones too). At least it'll be a cool Screens Lead.

Before I discuss the rest of the watchlist, I'd like to give a few comments on the Pokemon that narrowly missed the ban hammer.

:sv/ogerpon-wellspring:
Ogerpon-Wellspring is a contentious Pokemon in the tier and even among the council members. With Fire, Grass, Water and Rock coverage, it's hard to argue that this is a top Pokemon. Ogerpon Wellspring has been a massive threat ever since its release, thanks to its access to Grass, Water, Fire and Rock coverage. Pyro Ball sets are difficult to check defensively without a Pokemon like Mega Latias. Ogerpon is resilient to most priority attacks in the tier thanks to its okay bulk and Water immunity. Additionally, Ivy Cudgel ignores Beak Blast and Burning Bulwark, thanks to it being non-contact. The one thing holding Ogerpon-Wellspring back (and indeed why this council vote was so close) is that Wellspring walks the line of a Pokemon that has 4 move slot syndrome and one that picks and chooses its counters. Pyro Ball neuters Grass types, but it comes at the drawback of 1) being resisted by something like Mega Latias and 2) sacrificing priority to outpace offensive Pokemon. A similar argument can be made for Play Rough sets, which have a bigger pool of checks. The most common set (Flower Trick, Surging Strike/Ivy Cudgel and Jet Punch) can be checked and soft-checked by most Grass types in the tier - including offensive ones that don't necessarily spec into bulk like Band Bulu. It is also worth examining Ogerpon-Wellspring in a metagame without Rain, as Rain contributed significantly to its power.

:sv/garchomp:
Garchomp: Public enemy number #2. Garchomp has a multitude of sets across both base and mega forms, Swords Dance or Dragon Dance, and Rockinium Z, Dragonium Z and Groundinium-Z. However, with the metagame still in its infancy, we figured it would be fruitful if we waited for the metagame to respond to Garchomp being prominent. While there is definitely counterplay in Beak Blast users and priority abusers, Garchomp possesses several traits that make it difficult to reliably check it both in-game and in the builder, and thus, it will be a high priority in the council watchlist.

:sv/silvally:
Silvally is broken on paper, but few people have been pushing this Pokemon to its absolute limits, both on tours and on the ladder. Silvally will always remain a watchlist Pokemon as it is the purest definition of a wild card Pokemon - with access to every move in the game. Tail Glow and Quiver Dance, set on something like Arceus Fairy, has come the closest to breaking this Pokemon, but with limited evidence and more pressing Pokemon at hand, Silvally has been pushed to the back of the line. It has the unfortunate traits of being both slow to start and not bulky enough to withstand common hits in the metagame (think Lando EQ or Garchomp Headlong Rush), even with maximum investment. This is not to mention its vulnerability to hazards, its weakness to (usually physical) priority, and the absence of Tera.

:sv/Kyurem:
Kyurem has been added to the upper echelons of the watchlist thanks to its immense versatility. With the ability to run Dragon Dance, Specs, Band, Scarf, Sub Roost, and Pressure Stall DD sets, Kyurem has tools up its sleeve to break (or cheese) all of its would-be answers. What really pushes this Pokemon is its access to Glacial Lance and Glaive Rush, two high base-powered moves that finally give Kyurem sufficient breaking power in the face of Pokemon like Celesteela, Toxapex and Corviknight.

Comments on Watchlisted Pokemon that didn't quite make the cut for the ban hammer.

Blood Moon Ursaluna: Calm Mind sets can easily set up on fat teams and pick them off. Not many Pokemon on offence want to switch into a base 135 special attack Boomburst, let alone a Normalium-Z Boomburst. The main reason for this being here is the Normalium-Z set, as that set can beat Blissey 1v1. However, we want to give this Pokemon time to either meld into the metagame or stick out like a sore thumb.

Roaring Moon: While the tera ban has hit Roaring Moon hard, its access to Z-moves could potentially push it over the edge. Roaring Moon also has a level of versatility as Choice Scarf and Choice Band on Sun are both excellent Pokemon.

Hisui Lilligant: A testament to the power of Victory Dance and Z-moves. Icium or Fightinium-Z can bust open holes through offence and defence alike, and its typing is resilient to 5 common priority moves (sucker punch, water shuriken, thunderclap, jet punch, and grassy glide). However, there is a sizeable pool of checks for this Pokemon, such as Skeledirge, Beak Blast Corviknight, and Celesteela.

Azumarill and Manaphy: Grouping them both here. In the event that Ogerpon-Wellspring is banned, Azumarill is all but certain to follow it, and Manaphy has a strong likelihood of being banned. With access to strong boosting moves (Swords Dance and Belly Drum in Azu's case, Tail Glow in Manaphy's case) and impressive effective Attack stats, they are able to leverage priority Jet Punch and Water Shuriken as a breaking tool
-- similar to how Palafin used Jet Punch in early OU and NDOU.

Watchlist:

Bans

Ogerpon Wellspring
Garchomp
Kyurem
Silvally
Ogerpon Hearthflame
Blood Moon Ursaluna
Rage Fist
Aegislash
Mega Sableye
Mega Alakazam
Roaring Moon
Hisui Lilligant
Azumarill and Manaphy

Unbans:

Melmetal
Darkrai
Deoxys-Speed
Basculegion (M and F)

endagger · Apr 27, 2024

Curious if there is any consideration to restricting Stone Axe or Ceaseless Edge? Seems far too easy to get hazards up, and keep them up considering Gholdengo is in the tier. And Mortal Spin is the common removal and blocked by any steel except from Corrosion Glimmora, but most of the time its Pex.

Velcroc · Apr 29, 2024

endagger said:
Curious if there is any consideration to restricting Stone Axe or Ceaseless Edge? Seems far too easy to get hazards up, and keep them up considering Gholdengo is in the tier. And Mortal Spin is the common removal and blocked by any steel except from Corrosion Glimmora, but most of the time its Pex.

Not at the moment, no. SV STABmons haven't taken tiering action on those moves and from the feedback I've seen those two moves aren't on the high end of the radar for most of the people I've talked to.

I would say that Hazard removal is buffed in STABmons with a wider pool of Mortal Spinners, Rapid Spinners, Defoggers, and the occasional Tidy Up. I would say that archetypes that haven't historically run hazard removal (like dual screens) have an option to get rid of hazards. You mentioned a few mortal spinners (Pex and Corrosion Glimmora), but there are others which do not fold instantly to steels. Slowking-Galar can run Scald or Flamethrower to punish Steels on its Assault Vest sets, and Clodsire itself a good response to a lot of the common Steel-types like NP Gholdengo.

We will be hosting a survey soon (in about half a day), so feel free to bring these points up in the short response sections. If you find anything else that might be problematic, you can post it there as well.

Danwithnoplan · Apr 29, 2024

Rage fist definitely needs to get a swift ban. Silvally being the most prominent abuser rn really can just cheese games with it especially since nobody knows what a Silvally is running until it uses a move.

(also when will implementation take place, the bans happened over a week ago)

Velcroc · Apr 30, 2024

With the National Dex STABmons coming to a close, the council would like to gauge the player base's thoughts on the state of the metagame. I apologise for the inconsistency with the ban list on the thread vs the ladder, it was a failure of communication on my end, and going forward we will rectify this issue. The survey is split into three sections: the first assesses player engagement with the OM, the second addresses specific threats, and the final section aims to gauge how people feel about the unbans.

Click the link here to access the survey!

The survey will last for 1-2 weeks (depending on how many responses we get) and I will update this thread with the results.

Velcroc · Jul 15, 2024

Sorry for being late with the survey; this post took a lot longer than I expected with multiple delays. Without further ado, here are the...

:sv/tapu-bulu: Survey Responses:sv/Ting-lu:

The total responses to the survey were 40 (n = 40), with many of them being qualified players, including 3 former or current council members and 20 people ranked in the top 50 on the ladder.

Metagame Enjoyment and Balance
The average score for enjoyment was 8.3/10 which indicates the majority of the playerbase found the metagame to be enjoyable.

The average score for metagame balance was 6.2 / 10 , which indicated that many people found issues with tiering health. This score aligns with the state of the metagame when the ladder was up (rain and pecharunt were legal, for example), as well as the high scores received by several of the suspects.

Resources
60% found resources helpful. 20% found it somewhat helpful. 10% did not find it helpful at all. One person found that they didn't need it. This indicates that the resources are doing a satisfactory job of reaching the playerbase, although there is more to be done in this department.

Tournament interest
People seem to be keen on joining future tours, with 41% saying yes and 43.6% saying they will consider it.

:sv/Manaphy: Community Thoughts on Bans:sv/Garchomp:

Of all the Pokemon listed in the survey, here are some notable statistics to draw from.

:Ogerpon Wellspring: --- scored 3.125 / 5 , indicating keen interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Ogerpon-Wellspring. Ogerpon-Wellspring has been contentious ever since its release, as it has very linear responses depending on its 4th (and sometimes third) moveslot. Dragons like Mega Latias can switch into sets running Bitter Blade, while fat Grass-types like Mega Venusaur can shrug off Play Rough and Knock Off sets. It did not score as highly as anticipated as the environment on the ladder was far more conducive to hyper offense, and it did struggle into Pecharunt.
:Garchomp: --- scored 3.5 / 5, indicating significant interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Garchomp. Garchomp and its mega are extremely versatile threats thanks to the buffs received by both Ground- and Dragon-types in STABmons. Garchomp could be a Swords Dancer, a Dragon Dancer, a Mixed Attacker, a physically bulky wall, or even a revenge killer with Choice Scarf. This level of diversity is compounded by the fact that Mega Garchomp can also run similar sets and can easily muscle through answers to base Garchomp.
:Kyurem: --- scored 3.475 / 5, indicating significant interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Kyurem. Kyurem, like Garchomp, leverages the buffs it received in STABmons to become a difficult-to-wall Pokemon. Mixed sets, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Dragon Dance, and SubRoost sets had considerably different counterplay from one another, making Kyurem a guessing game from Team Preview. Even a simple item change from Heavy Duty Boots to Icium-Z could drastically shift the counterplay. While it was outshadowed by Baxcalibur when that was legal, Kyurem is truly coming into its own as a dangerous threat.
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame: --- scored 3.325 / 5, indicating high interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Ogerpon-Hearthflame. Ogerpon-Hearthflame, even in a format without tera, is a bit too much with regards to sheer power. While it does struggle with priority, it does place a lot of defensive teams on the backfoot. Additionally, sun-boosted Fire STABs can power through resists.
:Silvally: --- scored 3.35 / 5, indicating high interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Silvally. Ladder was the perfect opportunity to test this Pokemon in action. While this Pokemon has always been on the radar (thanks to its access to every single move), Silvally was very much an on-paper threat for much of the tier's lifespan, as 95 stats all around was power crept early into the format. With Quiver Dance and Tail Glow, Silvally can pick and choose its counters, and this extreme versatility can be reflected in its scoring in the survey.
:Ursaluna Bloodmoon: --- scored 3.1/5 , indicating keen interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Ursaluna-Blood Moon. Ursaluna Blood Moon has the lowest score out of the roster but is by no means a pushover. Ursaluna Blood Moon has the capacity to systematically dismantle bulky teams with Normalium-Z, letting it muscle past Chansey. However, these scores seem to indicate that the offensive nature of the ladder may have masked the threat that Ursaluna posed.
:Xurkitree: --- scored 3.625 / 5 indicating significant interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Xurkitree. Xurkitree, unsurprisingly, scores the highest out of all the Pokemon surveyed. With access to Thunderclap thanks to the Indigo Disk DLC, Xurkitree finally gained a tool that helped its otherwise lacklustre match-up against offense. This, combined with an electrifying 173 Special Attack and access to Tail Glow, makes Xurkitree a pain to answer. Most defensive Ground-types can be easily dismantled with Energy Ball and/or Hidden Power Ice, while sturdier answers such as Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur were always one Electrium-Z (or even Fairium-Z) away from being chipped into range for +3 Electro Drift.
:Manaphy: --- scored 3.575 / 5, indicating significant interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Manaphy. Manaphy scored the second highest out of all the Pokemon surveyed. Like Xurkitree, this is thanks to its Tail Glow combined with priority. Manaphy was able to pick and choose its counters, with Ice Beam hitting Pokemon like Mega Latias, and Psychic hitting Toxapex and Mega Venusaur. While Damp Rock being legal did influence these results, Manaphy already possesses traits that make it undesirable for ND STABmons.
:Azumarill: --- scored 3.275 / 5, indicating high interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Azumarill. Belly Drum Jet Punch go brrr. Swords Dance sets can muscle past its usual checks, like physically defensive Pex and Grass-types with Multi Attack (if you have the right memory).

Additionally, we asked players how they felt about Trick or Treat (specifically, Z-Trick or Treat) and Rage Fist and whether or not they wanted to see the moves restricted.

:gourgeist:
Z-trick or treat had mixed responses. Some people found specific threats that warranted action: one player mentioned that they believe Gholdengo warranted action, while Hoopa-U didn't. Nevertheless, 65% of the respondents wanted action to be taken (either on abusers or the move itself), while only 35% wanted to maintain the status quo. We will most likely be voting on this move in anticipation of the upcoming NDOTSL and the STABmons seasonal tournaments due to the wide pool of deadly abusers. Additionally, restricting the move will help us examine the health of Gholdengo in the metagame.

:annihilape:
The consensus was pretty firm for Rage Fist. 70% of the playerbase wanted to take action on the move, with a vast majority of those respondents advocating for a restriction. The council will likely be voting on Rage Fist once we see how the move performs in a tournament setting, as having Pecharunt legal could skew the opinion people have towards the move.

Further Responses:

Respondents were also asked if they wanted to see any other tiering action from the council. We will be going over suspects that either saw multiple mentions, or concerned a significant topic. The miscellaneous responses section below will go through Pokemon, moves, and mechanics that were only mentioned once.

:light-clay:
Light Clay was mentioned 2 times. Light Clay exacerbates Offense in this metagame, allowing dangerous Pokemon like Trick-or-treat Gholdengo to get reliable set up. With Grimmsnarl being the perfect dual screens setter and Alolan Ninetales being solid in its own right, screens as a playstyle dominated the ladder. At the same time, Gen 9 added a lot of strong defensive tools to help mitigate this, including defensive Pokemon like Clodsire, Dondozo, and Skeledirge that can stomach set-up spam, and moves like Mortal Spin and Salt Cure that can put set up sweepers on a timer.

:ditto:
Transform was mentioned 2 times. Transform is almost exclusively viable on Chansey or Blissey and is Stall's response to the tidal wave of offense. Responses pointed out how Transform made these teams unfair, as Chansey and Blissey (once transformed) were difficult to take out. While the council will be taking a look at Transform at some point in the future, keep in mind that there is zero precedent for this move being restricted in other STABmons metagames.

:gholdengo:
Gholdengo was mentioned twice. Gholdengo is the most contentious Pokemon outside the ban slate, thanks to its versatility and ease in slotting coverage. Nasty Plot, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs are all sets that you have to account for in both teambuilder and in-game. However, the set pushing this Pokemon towards a ban is Z-Trick-or-Treat. While early on Hoopa-U was spammed on the ladder thanks to its blisteringly high offenses, Z-ToT Gholdengo picked up steam towards the end of the ladder. Unlike Hoopa-U, the opportunity cost for Gholdengo dropping a coverage move is limited, as Tachyon Cutter already does significant damage to switch-ins. Additionally, its ability Good as Gold means that status-inducing moves, Transform or Whirlwind/Roar cannot be used to slow down a Gholdengo sweep. However, Gholdengo does provide a useful defensive niche thanks to its access to recovery and moves such as Infernal Parade, which can help slow down Pokemon like Iron Valiant. The council will be assessing whether this defensive niche warrants Gholdengo staying.

:toucannon:
Beak Blast was mentioned three times with one response stating that it limited physical attackers by forcing a trade every time they entered the field. While this is true, Beak Blast is something that we would test later on in the metagame, as it would not be wise to remove a valuable defensive tool (one that is arguably keeping the metagame in balance) when the metagame itself hasn't been fully developed yet. Beak Blast forcing Pokemon like Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, and many other physical attackers to run Protective Pads or Torque moves is a positive example of opportunity cost and has muzzled otherwise deadly threats such as Mega Lopunny and Zamazenta. As I mentioned during the discussion of Transform, there is no precedent for a Beak Blast restrict in SM STABmons nor in SV STABmons. While Transform could be argued to unfairly punish offense, Beak Blast has little argument for this, as in many instances, offense has adapted to it.

:skeledirge:
Torch Song mentioned twice. Torch Song has made Pokemon like Blaziken, Mega Charizard Y, Iron Moth, Blacephalon, Volcarona, Heatran, and Volcanion dangerous threats that can sweep at the drop of a hat, which is a major reason why Assault Vest Toxapex is splashable. However, fitting counterplay to many of these Fire-types isn't particularly difficult thanks to the fact that many excellent Pokemon in the metagame, such as Mega Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, Ting-Lu, Mega Latias, Heatran, and of course Toxapex, all have a solid match-up into these threats offensively and/or defensively.

:ting-lu:
Ting-Lu was mentioned as a reason for the stagnation of the metagame. While I do sympathise with the argument, Ting-Lu is a pretty sturdy check for a lot of Pokemon in the tier (particularly Take Heart psychics and Raging Bolt), and removing it could have drastic repercussions for the tier's health. Ting-Lu itself is a sturdy mon that seemingly refuses to die, but it can be forced out by the myriad of offensive Grass-types and Water-types that dominate the tier. Additionally, Ting-Lu being the crux of many teams means that it can be overwhelmed by Pokemon that it wishes to check; for example, you have a dilemma checking Mega Aerodactyl and Dragonium-Z Raging Bolt at the same time.

:normalium-z: :rockium-z: :icium-z:
One respondent mentioned that they felt that Z-moves should be considered for a universal ban. A similar tiering process is happening in National Dex AAA right now, with Z-moves pushing a lot of Pokemon over the edge in that metagame. However, STABmons plays at a different pace, and while Z-moves have contributed singlehandedly to some Pokemon being watchlisted (like Ursaluna Blood Moon), Z-moves themselves are more manageable in this metagame. A ban on Z-moves would most likely be a last resort.

The following Pokemon/move/mechanics were mentioned once by respondents.

:Landorus-therian: :Blaziken: :mawile-mega:

These Pokemon will probably end up being watchlisted at some point since there is some valid sentiment that they may be too much for the tier. Landorus-Therian can muscle past answers with SD + a Z-move of choice between Flyinium and Rockium. I do think that it has counterplay, much like Lando-T does in gen 7, but it is worth taking a look at. Blaziken can be a menace for teams with both Swords Dance and Torch Song sets. Torch Song, in particular, is a pretty deadly set that can accumulate boosts and sweep at the drop of a hat. However, both sets have a plethora of soft checks, and Toxapex can wall both. Mega Mawile is pushing the boundaries of acceptable in this tier with its access to strong STABs and its flexibility in coverage. The main move pushing this over the tipping point is Magical Torque, a STAB move that ignores Burning Bulwark and Beak Blast's secondary effect. However, unlike something like Xurkitree, Mega Mawile can be played around by Offense (with tools like offensive Landorus-therian) and has defensive checks that could cripple it or trade with it in a pinch.

:iron-valiant: :roaring-moon: :aegislash:

All of these Pokemon have excellent traits in the metagame and do place pressure on teambuilding. However, it can be argued that they are checked by traditional means. Case in point: Iron Valiant. Most teams (especially on ladder) are running Assault Vest Toxapex and a Beak blaster, which limits the efficacy of both physical and special offensive sets. Roaring Moon is a strong Pokemon in the tier, but without Tera to maximise its offensive capabilities, Dragon Dance sets feel lackluster. Choice Band and Choice Scarf are both threatening sets in their own right, but have counterplay nonetheless. I expected more buzz surrounding Aegislash, but my experience on the ladder has led me to believe it's a lot more threatening on paper.

:ogerpon-cornerstone:

Ogerpon-Cornerstone does have the same tools as its brethren, Hearthflame and Wellspring. Additionally, it also has significantly better coverage than either Heathflame or Wellspring, as Rock-, Fire- and Grass-type moves hit every mon in the tier for at least neutral damage except Kommo-o. However, Ogerpon-Cornerstone has significantly worse defensive typing, which limits its switch-in opportunities, which balances these strengths. We will be looking into Cornerstone if and when Wellspring and Hearthflame are banned.

:blacephalon: :charizard-mega-y:
Blacephalon and Charizard-Y are both in this position because of Torch Song. However, even with Torch song, Blacephalon has common answers such as Assault Vest Toxapex and Ting-Lu and generally struggles with the offensive pace of the metagame. Mega Charizard Y has been clamoured for a ban ever since STABmon's inception, but its Rock-type weakness combined with its serviceable speed means that offense can outpace it. Mega Charizard Y is also a good litmus test to determine whether the defensive core of a team has integrity, and more defensive teams have access to answers such as Mega Latias, both Tyranitars, and Assault Vest Toxapex.

:ogerpon:
Ogerpon was mentioned as a potential threat with Z-forest's curse. I will echo the points I made on Cornerstone while also noting the opportunity cost of running an inferior version of the masked Ogerpons in a metagame without Tera.

:toxapex: :tapu-fini:
Toxapex could be argued as a centralising presence, but it does hold a lot of the tier together with its excellent typing and good sets. Tapu Fini is a more niche version of Toxapex, with valuable Fairy-typing.

:slaking:
Doodle Slaking being here is a sign that the metagame is still in its infancy. If anything, the fact that it has only been mentioned once is a positive sign for metagame development.

:politoed: :ninetales: Weather :tyranitar: :abomasnow:
I think the Damp Rock ban in both SV and ND STABmons was a nice compromise between giving Pokemon like Pelipper a niche and gutting an unhealthy playstyle. It also happens that a lot of Pokemon found on rain have small niches outside the archetype (Duraludon being an example). We will be keeping an eye on Sun during NDOTSL/NDOTPL but Sun struggles with consistency and is match-up-dependent. It doesn't help that Sun is a double-edged sword, making Pokemon that already threaten Sun (like Roaring Moon, Great Tusk, and Raging Bolt) even stronger. Aurora Veil teams do technically fall under "Weather", but any tiering action on Light Clay would render their presence in the tier moot.

Moves

:Ursaluna Bloodmoon: Boomburst :exploud:
Boomburst seems like a secondary issue for Pokemon like Ursaluna-Blood-Moon and Porygon-Z, and it has plenty of abusers that are fine in the metagame without being overbearing, such as Meloetta.

:baxcalibur: Ban Glacial Lance (and unbanning Baxcalibur) :calyrex-ice:
Glacial Lance's nerf does make it more palatable on Pokemon like Weavile, while Pokemon like Baxcalibur and Kyurem possess inherent traits that make them difficult to answer.

:lopunny-mega: Population Bomb :maushold:
Population Bomb is a pretty inconsistent move into a lot of stuff in the metagame. With Rocky Helmets, Burning Bulkwarks, and Beak Blasts running around, Wide Lens Population Bombs are difficult to safely click. The more pressing issue is the lack of consistent abusers outside of Ambipom and Cinccino, as most offensive Normal-types would prefer other moves.

:Xurkitree: Thunder Clap :Raging-bolt:
Thunder Clap is a pretty annoying move when it catches you, but having more priority options, especially those with the drawbacks of Thunder Clap, is healthier for the tier as it allows a wider pool of sweepers that can be revenged. If any Pokemon ends up being overwhelming with the move (which at the moment is just Xurkitree), the Pokemon will be banned instead.

:sv/alakazam-mega: Community Thoughts on Unbans :sv/melmetal:

In this section, people were asked about the Mega Alakazam unban and what they wanted to see freed in the future.

:alakazam-mega:

The average score for Mega Alakazam from the respondents was 3.6 / 5. This is an indicator that most people felt that Mega Alakazam was a fine addition for the tier, although many did hold reservations on whether or not it would be healthy in the long term. The council will thus continue to monitor Mega Alakazam for the time being.

:melmetal: :darkrai:

A supermajority of the respondents (64.1%) were willing to see Melmetal and Darkrai unbanned from National Dex STABmons. Both Pokemon were already planned to be freed in the distant future, but the council wished to prioritise tiering action on other threats first in anticipation for the ladder. Melmetal will likely have a healthy defensive presence in this tier with either Leftovers or Assault Vest sets, and its access to Iron Fist-boosted Bullet Punch can help pick off faster Pokemon. Although Darkrai does have the potential to snowball as a Nasty Plot sweeper, the presence of fast offensive threats like Mega Lopunny and a wide suite of priority moves should be enough to keep it in line.

:deoxys-speed:

48.7% respondents indicated they would like to see Deoxys Speed unbanned from ND STABmons. Deoxys Speed is a bit of a contentious Pokemon thanks to its versatility (being able to run both offensive Nasty Plot sets and Hazard Setting sets) and blistering speed. While Deoxys did not reach a simple majority, the council will be willing to re-examine Deoxys-Speed (whether it be now or at a later date).

:basculegion: :basculegion-f: :espathra:

All three of these Pokemon found some support from the playerbase for an unban. This indicates that the playerbase is uncertain about introducing volatile Pokemon into the metagame at this stage. One user mentioned that they would like to see action on Basculegion after tiering action on rage fist. Taking this into account, we will be examining Basculegion and Espathra once the metagame stabilises.

:cloyster:

Cloyster was mentioned several times by respondents to the survey and was mentioned (informally) by members of the community I discussed this Pokemon with. While we wanted to hold off on testing Cloyster, we are willing to test it down the line after NDOTSL and the seasonal are complete.

Other mentions

Some respondents weighed in with other potential unbans that they would like to see. Acupressure was suggested as a move to be unrestricted, although with abusers like Chansey and Blissey (who are already contentious with Transform) it is likely that this move would be too much for the tier. Mega Metagross, Genesect and Dragapult were Pokemon that people wanted to see freed, but all of these Pokemon are either already far too strong for the metagame or get extra tools with STABmons that push them over the edge (or both!). Komala will not be legal as ComaTalk Whirlwinds are ridiculous for any OM not named Pure Hackmons.

hidin · Jul 16, 2024

Hello, after the above survey that took much more time that it needed to be released, we decided to vote on every Pokemon surveyed; whether it was to be ban it or not ban it. With NDOTSL around the horizon and NatDex STABmons Seasonal just starting, the council chose it was best to vote now rather than later down the line. The results can be shown below with explanations:

Thank you NeonJolteonWasUsed for tiebreak on Ogerpon-Hearthflame and Rage Fist!
Ogerpon-Wellspring, Garchomp, Silvally, Xurkitree, Kyurem, Manaphy, Azumarill, and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon are banned! Trick-or-Treat and Rage Fist are restricted! Melmetal, Darkrai, and Deoxys-Speed are now unbanned!

:ogerpon-wellspring:Ogerpon-Wellspring
Ogerpon-Wellspring was one of the best wincons and breakers in the metagame; it's raw strength with Wellspring Mask's power boost and a expanded movepool with Surging Strikes, Flower Trick, Jet Punch, and new coverage like Pyro Ball to break through would be countermeasures like Beak Blast Celesteela and Ferrothorn and already present coverage in its movepool like Play Rough to render Dragon-type checks like Mega Latias and Raging Bolt. It was a powerful but respectable Pokemon when Damp Rock was legal, but after its ban Ogerpon-Wellspring has shown to provide little else to the metagame positively except keeping other constraining forces like Manaphy and Azumarill in check. Due to its incredible strength and consistentcy in games with good coverage to back up its quite powerful STABs, it is now banned.

:garchomp:Garchomp
Even though Pokemon like Landorus-Therian, Tapu Bulu, and Celesteela are at top of the metagame, Garchomp managed to still pose as a overwhelming threat due to Dragonium Z sets and Shore Up + Dragon Dance sets. The former let it use Landorus-Therian as set up fodder for it to be blasted away by a Z-move along with heavily denting Celesteela, while Shore Up + Dragon Dance let it actually beat both of the aforementioned in the 1v1 due to recovery and Dragon Darts preventing any burns from Beak Blast. Tapu Bulu was a great counter to Garchomp, but it wouldn't like taking a boosted Headlong Rush after some hazards or potentially a Firium Z to remove it from the equation completely. It was deemed too powerful and is now banned.

:silvally:Silvally
Silvally being legal was questioned frequently by most players, and for good reason. It is way, way to customizable with every type being legal and it having every move in the game due to RKS System. For example, notable forms were Silvally-Ghost using Rage Fists sets and being obnoxious with it, Silvally-Electric breaking through most defensive cores with Tail Glow, Silvally-Water or Silvally-Ground being a defensive wall with Salt Cure and a myriad of other tools, and pretty much any type barring the bad ones could do something and surprisingly be effective. It also does not help that you cannot see which typing it is on preview, adding a level of obscurity on what you could be facing on preview. Because of how versatile Silvally is, it is now banned.

:xurkitree:Xurkitree
With new tools like Electro Drift, and most importantly, Thunderclap in its kit, Xurkitree was a terrifying sweeper. Effectively having no checks besides faster resists or immunes, a boosted Xurkitree had to be played around with caution as anything neutral or weak to would either take a substantial amount of damage from Electro Drift, and most of the time Ground-types weren't safe. Ting-Lu, the best check for Xurkitree, was destroyed by the common Fairium Z set once a Tail Glow is set up, and of course Landorus-Therian was one shot by Hidden Power Ice. Thunderclap has bolstered Xurkitree to broken levels, and as such, it was banned unanimously.

:manaphy:Manaphy
While it was kept in shackles with Ogerpon-Wellspring's presence, Manaphy still succeeded as a strong set up sweeper that often traded too well throughout many games. Tail Glow + Water Shuriken did very well against offensive builds, and also having coverage like Ice Beam, Energy Ball, and Alluring Voice to hit any resists helped it even further. Substitute could be used to use Toxapex as fodder and make your sweep even better. Take Heart + Acid Armor sets were not so common but would be obnoxious in matchups due to curing status and boosting both of its defensive stats along with its best offensive set. To prevent any total wreckage with Ogerpon-Wellspring's ban, Manaphy has been banned alongside it.

:azumarill:Azumarill
Unlike Manaphy, Azumarill was only slightly held back by Ogerpon-Wellspring as it only blocked Jet Punch; it was obliterated by Magical Torque otherwise and wasn't too safe of a check to it. Toxapex was a sturdy check to it but as it ran Assault Vest most of the time, Belly Drum + Knock Off did the trick and OHKOed one of its best checks. Choice Band was more prediction reliant but could dent teams with its great STAB options, and even having Flip Turn to pivot against its checks. Azumarill was a strong presence that sort of falls in the same boat as Manaphy on being checked by fellow banned Pokemon Ogerpon-Wellspring, and was also banned to prevent any collateral damage.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Boomburst being accessible to Ursaluna-Bloodmoon is about the best thing that could've happened to it, there was little difference to how it acted in standard National Dex as it was an annoying trader that got even more buffed and could use Normalium Z more to make checks like Celesteela and Corviknight have a run for their money. It being outplayable was a hard task due to its great bulk, and because of it effectively having the potential to trade or eliminate every Pokemon in the metagame, it is now banned.

:gourgeist: :annihilape: Trick-or-Treat and Rage Fist
Z-Trick-or-Treat on offensive Ghost-type Pokemon like Houndstone, Gholdengo, Ceruledge, and in another case, Hoopa-Unbound turned them into late game cleaners that didn't really require much skillful positioning, as not only did it provide an omni-boost to the user, it also turned the opponent into a Ghost-type, forcing them out or removing the check from equation in matchups where it would be able to safely check it. Rage Fist has been controversial ever since the metagame started to be played, and for good reason. Whether it be Aegislash, Annihilape, the aforementioned Ceruledge, Silvally-Ghost, or the now banned (and likely unbanned in the future) Pecharunt, Rage Fist is fundamentally a unhealthy move due to how easy it is to stack up boosts and sweep, especially with the expanded movepools in this format. For those reasons, both of these moves are now restricted to native learners.

Now onto unbans! These Pokemon will be monitored, but will still be legal in the format.

:melmetal:Melmetal
Melmetal was only banned due to Terastallization, a mechanics that has been banned for nearly a year at this point. Keeping it banned was objectively the wrong thing to do as it has been discussed and shown to be a healthy presence in NatDex STABmons by the community. As a result, it is now legal in the format again, and out of the three unbans it is least likely to be looked at in the future.

:darkrai:Darkrai
Darkrai being unbanned pretty much correlates to National Dex OU unbanning it, but to sum it up the opportunities it has to set up are not very bountiful, and in a metagame filled with so much priority and new defensive tools, Darkrai will have a harder time trying to get away with games with its signature Nasty Plot set. For those reasons, is now unbanned.

:deoxys-speed:Deoxys-Speed
The Pokemon that will have an eye kept on it the most on this slate, Deoxys-Speed is given a chance in this metagame due to its versatility not being too hard to combat in the tier, along with the minimal buffs it receives. This does not mean that sets like Nasty Plot or any hazard setting sets are bad at all, they have the potential to be annoying but that is something to be determined this Seasonal and in NDOTSL II. It is unbanned in the format, but as said it will be monitored quite a bit.

:ogerpon-hearthflame:Ogerpon-Hearthflame
While not being unbanned, Ogerpon-Hearthflame was the only Pokemon on the chopping block to survive the ban slate. Being comparable to Ogerpon-Wellspring in the sense of it using its coverage and strength to brute force through the metagame, it has a worse defensive typing, relatively worse matchups into top Pokemon, and is weak to hazards. Despite all of this, we will still monitor it as it still an elite threat in the metagame.

For now this is the last tiering action until either the start of NDOTSL II or the end of it; stay tuned for more, and remember to sign up for the seasonal!

NeonJolteonWasUsed · Jul 29, 2024

So the recent wave of tiering action in STABmons is quite a bit of a shakeup. I mean we got new faces dropping down into the tier, the riddance of many problematic Pokemon and moves, and the return of some older Pokemon who were once banned!
But in the wake of all this. Aren't we forgetting someone?
Well if you know who I'm talking about. This news is sure to be just peachy.

Pecharunt is now Unbanned in National Dex STABmons to bring some more mochi mayhem!

Many of the playerbase who has been around for ladder knows exactly why Pecharunt was banned in the first place. With Rage Fist this Pokemon was an absolute terror, abusing Coil, Rage Fist, and Mortal Spin all in combination to dizzying effect to dominate games entirely on its own. With the recent Rage Fist restriction, this is no longer true anymore. Pecharunt however was not voted on during this slate because in truth we uh...kinda forgot, oops. Pecharunt returns to its role as a stellar defensive pivot and Mortal Spin user, with much more toned down Coil sets.

NeonJolteonWasUsed · Aug 10, 2024

Ogerpon Hearthflame has been banned from National Dex STABmons!

When Ogerpon Wellspring was taken out with the banhammer, there was another similarly offensively destructive form waiting for its time, so that it may be more freely run on teams.
Ogerpon Hearthflame lasted in this tier for the main reason using it meant you could not use Ogerpon Wellspring, as well as its crippling hazard weakness making justifying it over Ogerpon Wellspring extremely difficult for many teams as Wellspring simply provided so much more role compression than Hearthflame could ever dream of. The council wanted to at least give it a chance without Wellspring in the tier as it was believed its crippling flaws would be enough to keep it from being truly overbearing. However, simply put, the issues outlined in the original unban slate became much less apparent with the removal of its main competition due to Wellspring ironically being a very constraining force on the common means of hazard control in the tier, and with its disappearance hazard control has become far easier to manage. As such, Ogerpon Hearthflame has become even more of a headache for teams to deal with defensively than it already was.
As such, it has been unanimously agreed upon among the council to ban Ogerpon Hearthflame.

Velcroc · Oct 5, 2024

With NDOTSL and the seasonal ending soon, the Nat Dex STABmons council has decided to send out another survey to examine the state of the tier. While the previous bans and restrictions have resulted in a more balanced metagame than April, new threats like Gouging-Fire, Darkrai, and Hisui Lilligant have caught the player base's attention.

Like the previous survey, there are three sections: the first assesses player engagement with the OM, the second addresses specific threats, and the final aims to gauge how people feel about the unbans.

:sv/gouging-fire: Click the link here to access the survey! :sv/lilligant-hisui:

The survey will last for 2 weeks. Results will hopefully be up by the end of the month.

Kinzo hidin Runo Amstan xdRudi.exe Adriyun ARTYMASION TDLoriat big tony 2014 Maybca☆〜ゝ。∂ Dahness Latiasboy SammyCe123 TrueBlueBlur happysh Osake

Velcroc · Oct 30, 2024

:pmd/aerodactyl-mega: Survey Responses :pmd/Rotom-Wash:

The total responses to the survey were 21 (n = 21), with many of them being qualified players, including quarter- and semi-finalists from the STABmons seasonal and people who picked the format up during NDOTSL II and NDAM trios.

While there was a dip in the number of responses, this is expected as the last survey got more attention because of the spotlight ladder. Nevertheless, we met our target of 20-ish responses.

Metagame enjoyment and Balance
The average score for enjoyment was 8.19 / 10. This score is less than the previous survey, but this can be explained by a greater percentage of respondents participating in tours. It is also important to note that the deviation from last survey has significant reduced.

The average score for metagame balance was 7.10 / 10. This is a whopping 0.9 more than the previous survey indicating that most of the respondents feel that the metagame is becoming healthier, but there are a few pressing issues.

When asked for feedback on community, respondents seem to agree with the tier having solid resources, but did note that the VR was due for an update. One person suggested holding teambuilding and core construction challenges, which is something we can look forward to implementing in the future.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the metagame in terms of enjoyment?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how do you rate the metagame in terms of balance?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

:pmd/gouging-fire: Tiering :pmd/lilligant-hisui:

Pokemon

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gouging-Fire in National Dex STABmons?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Lilligant-Hisui in National Dex STABmons?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Darkrai in National Dex STABmons?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Zamazenta in National Dex STABmons?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Deoxys-Speed in National Dex STABmons?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Moves

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Dragon Energy?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Final Gambit?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Wicked Torque?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Combat Torque?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Magical Torque?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: What are your thoughts on Ceaseless Edge?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Respondents were asked to assess the healthiness of the following Pokemon in the survey. These are the results:

:gouging-fire: --- scored 3.76 / 5 indicating exceptional interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Gouging Fire, and is the highest score received by any mon in a survey. While not as unhealthy as the mons from the previous slate, Gouging Fire placed a significant strain on building. Not only did it force mons like Precipice Blades Landorus-Therian, Ting-Lu, Tapu Fini, and Dondozo onto compositions just to check it, it forced teams to keep these mons healthy long-term.
:lilligant-hisui: --- scored 3.0 / 5 indicating keen interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Hisui Lilligant. Hisui Lilligant has answers in the tier such as Pecharunt and Skeledirge, but these Pokemon are either incredibly niche or lack splashability. Additionally, Lilligant has a customizable 4th slot and Z-move slot allowing it to hone in on eliminating specific answers.
:darkrai: --- scored 2.57 / 5 indicating that there is some visible interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Darkrai. Darkrai saw discussion thanks to its access to Z-moves allowing Nasty Plot sets to muscle through would be answers such as Ting-Lu and Toxapex with Fightinium and Psychium (respectively). However, it's frailty and a host of offensive responses with faster Megas, scarfers and/or priority is something to consider. Still it places significant pressure on teambuilding.
:zamazenta: --- scored 2.95 / 5 indicating keen interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Zamazenta. Bulk Up Zamazenta is a scary mon for many teams to face thanks to its diverse item and Z-move choice. It has deep pockets when it comes to coverage with Wild Charge, Stone Edge, Heavy Slam, Crunch, Ice Fang and Psychic Fangs nailing different answers to it. Furthermore, Choice Band and Thunderous Kick sets are as nasty as ever, and even a move like Substitute and Body Press can flip the script mid-game. However, Zamazenta is one of those mons that sit on the blurred lines of '4MSS' and 'picking its counters' and natural answers such as Tapu Fini and Weezing-Galar are seeing increased usage due to their other positive attributes.
:deoxys-speed: --- scored 2.57 / 5 indicating that there is some visible interest among the playerbase for tiering action against Deoxys Speed. Deoxys-Speed is deceptively powerful with Z-moves allowing it to muscle through standard answers such as Celesteela, Tyranitar, and Ting-Lu. However, like Darkrai, it is frail and susceptible to strong priority or a retaliatory attack. Unlike Darkrai, scarfers and Chansey/Pex are not reliable answers.

Moves

Respondents were also asked to evaluate the healthiness of the moves below. The responses are as follows ( Restrict / Keep Unrestricted / Test Abusers if applicable):

:dragon-fang: Dragon Energy [ R: 8 / K: 6 / T: 7 ] --- 71.4% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Dragon Energy. Of those, there is a 53-47 split on taking action on Dragon Energy or the abusers. Due to the close nature of this vote, the council will likely vote on Dragon Energy and Latios. As the premier abuser of Dragon Energy, both forms of Latios are able to muscle through checks like Tyranitar, Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu with insignificant chip. This is complicated by the differing styles between the two formes with base Latios favouring hit-and-run tactics, while Mega Latios prefers sustaining a continuous assault with its higher defenses. However, it is important to note that Dragon Energy can still be abused by other special attacking Dragon-types such as Hydreigon, and Raging Bolt.
:fist-plate: Final Gambit [ R: 10 / K: 11 ] --- 47.6% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Final Gambit. While this was a close vote, the council will err on the side of caution and put this on slate as well. Final Gambit allows many Fighting-types to bust open would-be answers such as Pex or Fini which sets the field for Pokemon like Weavile to run wild. Unlike specific Z-moves, Final Gambit has no opportunity costs as it does significant damage to all switch-ins regardless of types (unlike coverage or Z-moves) and can be abused by a litany of Fighting-types.
:black-glasses: :revavroom: Wicked Torque [ R: 10 / K: 11 ] --- 47.6% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Wicked Torque. As aforementioned, the council will err on the side of caution and vote to restrict this move as well. Unlike Final Gambit, however, Wicked Torque has a significant opportunity cost being weaker than Knock Off, and having less utility compared to Ceaseless Edge. With that being said, Wicked Torque allows Kingambit and Roaring Moon to cheese through would be answers, even the odds of actually doing this are worse than fellow uncompetitive moves Dire Claw and Triple Arrows.
:black-belt: :revavroom: Combat Torque [ R: 3 / K: 18 ] --- 14.3% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Combat Torque. The council wanted to gauge the opinions of Torque moves given their volatile nature. Combat Torque in particular allows Fighting-types like Zamazenta, Mega Medicham, Mega Gallade, Urshifu and Great Tusk to bypass burns from Burning Bulwark and Beak Blast. Combat Torque receiving only 14.3% of the vote indicates that an resounding majority of the playerbase considers Torque moves to be fine. As such, we will be dropping these moves from our watchlist for the time being.
:fairy-feather: :revavroom: Magical Torque [ R: 2 / K: 19 ] --- 9.5% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Magical Torque. Like Combat Torque, Magical Torque allows Fairy-types like Iron Valiant and Mega Mawile to overwhelm traditional answers to Physical attackers (i.e. Burning Bulwark and Beak Blast). Again, an overwhelming majority of the participants found the move to be balanced, meaning we will keep Magical Torque off the watchlist for now.
:samurott-hisui: Ceaseless Edge [ R: 7 / K: 14 ] --- 33.3% of the playerbase expressed a desire to take action on Ceaseless Edge. Although this move was controversial in SV STAB, it seems that most of the playerbase is perfectly satisfied with this move in National Dex STABmons. With Gholdengo being less prominent, hazard removal options more plentiful, and the metagame being bulkier thanks to stat behemoths lie Mega Venu / TTar / Sciz and Lix, Spikes stacking is a lot less burdensome. Additionally, it has similar opportunity costs as Wicked Torque on offensive mons like Kingambit, Roaring Moon and Mega Tyranitar.

One user suggested focusing on mons before moves
One user noted that Weavile is an oppressive presence with only Pex being a long-term answer
One user felt final gambit was 50/50 for them - spot-on instincts given how the voting panned out. Good job.
One person criticized the VR for putting the Mega Zards near Aerodactyl-mega. You are right and this will be amended soon :tm:.
One user mentioned that Mega Mawile should be looked at.
One user said that canning the tail glow trio was enough and that Gouging Fire has a lot of offensive checks in the metagame, and that tiering action on Hisui Lilligant is an overreaction since Pech/Ghold keep it in line.
Couple of N/A and good job responses. One esteemed user yelled "GYAAAAAT"

:pmd/basculegion:Unbans :pmd/cloyster:

Forms response chart. Question title: Thoughts on re-introducing Basculegion-M to the tier?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: Thoughts on re-introducing Basculegion-F to the tier?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: Thoughts on re-introducing Cloyster to the tier?. Number of responses: 21 responses.

Finally, we asked how respondents felt about some Pokemon the council wanted to test back into the tier:

:Basculegion-f: --- 61.9% of the respondents would have wanted to see this Pokemon return to the tier. Since only a simple majority of the participants would like to see this Pokemon return, the council will wait before testing this Pokemon. While Basculegion-F does have counterplay in the form of Chansey and Assault Vest Pex, the lack of splashable answers and the shake up it will have (especially on Ting-Lu builds) is a point against its return.
:cloyster: --- 42.9% of the respondents would have wanted to see this Pokemon return to the tier. With Shell Smash, a tough STAB combination and access to Z-moves, Cloyster may push the tier far too much and, like Basculegion-F, force specific answers.
:Basculegion: --- 38.1% of the respondents would have wanted to see this Pokemon return to the tier. With few switch-ins to Choice Band Poltergeists and Surging Strikes, Basculegion Male places the most pressure on existing compositions out of the three mons. This is reflected in the votes with only a handful of people interested in seeing this mon tested back into the tier.

One user added that the Basculegions shouldn't be an issue with Last Respects banned
One user is curious to see Espathra tested. I think they also articulated a test for Magearna but then they put '(lol)' .
One user is still advocating for a Cloyster unban but has mellowed their position.
One user would like to test Kartana. Maybe.
One user pleaded not to unban tera, Zygarde or Araquanid. Your wish has been granted.

hidin · Oct 30, 2024

Velcroc did the yap, now it's time for the trap. Here's how our most recent slate based off the survey went!

Special thanks to Kinzo for tiebreaking the Darkrai and Zamazenta vote!

Darkrai, Gouging Fire, and Lilligant-Hisui are banned! Dragon Energy, Final Gambit, Wicked Torque are restricted! Basculegion-F remains banned!

Unfortunately I cannot muster up enough motivation to write ban reasonings, but the survey post outlines the downsides and the good things about the Pokemon that were voted on. Hopefully though, with NDOTSL II being concluded and NatDex STAB currently being played in the Trios tournament, some conclusion forming can possibly happen. As always you can ask a council member in the Discord to explain why the tiering actions are the way they were! Notes from each council member can be seen below:

i hate combat torque

should be good

Yeah, I like this meta. I don't want to change comps to answer Bascu-F (can't even devil's advocate it smh).

I begrudging voted ban on Zamazenta because its gone quite frankly insane in NDOTSL, showing itself as a wincon that just steamrolls through everything and stat checks pretty much any form of counterplay along with Combat Torque hax and Z-moves at its disposal. Unfortunate to let it go, but if Darkrai, Gouging Fire, and Hisuian Lilligant go than it can follow them. Deoxys-S I find tolerable and want to see it experimented with more before it can really get talked about seriously again, as the NP + Fight Z sets haven't been too egregious along with other possibilties of its move choices. Basculegion-F has an obnoxious STAB combo that I'm not a fan of, really don't want to free too much Ghost-types in this tier since its innately a great offensive type and with Water moves it just becomes too strong to deal with. Really tightens up builds which I dont like either, messing with what I think seperates this from SV STAB building wise; the freedom.

Fuck Darkrai

For now though, a new viability rankings is in the works and we await to see what happens after that. Stay tuned for more in the future!

Velcroc · Jan 3, 2025

A bit delayed, but here's the STABmons VR. Slate was voted on by Amstan, Hidin, Neon, RoFnA, Runo and Velcroc.

Viability Rankings Post-Spotlight Ladder
Welcome to the National Dex STABmons Viability Rankings! In this thread, we as a community, overlooked by the council, will attempt to rank every viable Pokemon in various tiers. Please be encouraged to post your thoughts on the viability of Pokemon in this thread!

S Rank
S
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Toxapex: Toxapex

S-
:Celesteela: Celesteela
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon
:Ting-Lu: Ting-Lu

A Ranks
A+
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo
:Kingambit: Kingambit
:Lopunny-mega: Mega Lopunny
:Melmetal: Melmetal
:Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta

A
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:Heatran: Heatran
:Iron Valiant: Iron Valiant
:Latias-mega: Mega Latias
:Mawile-mega: Mega Mawile
:Ogerpon Cornerstone: Ogerpon Cornerstone
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt
:Rotom Wash: Rotom Wash

A-
:Aerodactyl-mega: Mega Aerodactyl
:Charizard-mega-y: Mega Charizard Y
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed
:Diancie-mega: Mega Diancie
:Gliscor: Gliscor
:Great Tusk: Great Tusk
:Latios: Latios
:Latios-mega: Mega Latios
:Medicham-mega: Mega Medicham
:Scizor-mega: Mega Scizor
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian
:Tyranitar-mega: Mega Tyranitar
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Urshifu Rapid Strike
:Weavile: Weavile

B Ranks
B+
:Alakazam-mega: Mega Alakazam
:Aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
:Archaludon: Archaludon
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon
:Corviknight: Corviknight
:Gardevoir-mega: Mega Gardevoir
:Greninja: Greninja
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Iron Hands: Iron Hands
:Magnezone: Magnezone
:Mamoswine: Mamoswine
:Palafin-hero: Palafin
:Pecharunt: Pecharunt
:Seismitoad: Seismitoad
:Skarmory: Skarmory
:Skeledirge: Skeledirge
:Slowking Galar: Slowking Galar
:Tornadus-Therian: Tornadus-Therian
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar
:Venusaur-mega: Mega Venusaur
:Volcanion: Volcanion
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Zapdos: Zapdos
:Zapdos Galar: Zapdos Galar

B
:Aegislash: Aegislash
:Annihilape: Annihilape
:Blaziken: Blaziken
:Buzzwole: Buzzwole
:Charizard-mega-x: Mega Charizard X
:Clefable: Clefable
:Gallade-mega: Mega Gallade
:Gengar: Gengar
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Gyarados-mega: Mega Gyarados
:Heracross-mega: Heracross Mega
:Hoopa Unbound: Hoopa Unbound
:Hydrapple: Hydrapple
:Iron Moth: Iron Moth
:Keldeo: Keldeo
:Meloetta: Meloetta
:Salamence: Salamence
:Slowbro: Slowbro
:Steelix-mega: Mega Steelix
:Terrakion: Terrakion
:Thundurus: Thundurus
:Torkoal: Torkoal
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna
:Victini: Victini

B-
:Alomomola: Alomomola
:Altaria-mega: Mega Altaria
:Blissey: Blissey
:Ceruledge: Ceruledge
:Chansey: Chansey
:Cinderace: Cinderace
:Dondozo: Dondozo
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Hatterene: Hatterene
:Iron Crown: Iron Crown
:Moltres: Moltres
:Rotom Heat: Rotom Heat
:Slowbro-mega: Mega Slowbro
:Slowking: Slowking
:Sneasler: Sneasler

C Ranks
C+
:Clodsire: Clodsire
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Hawlucha: Hawlucha
:Heliolisk: Heliolisk
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon
:Iron Boulder: Iron Boulder
:Iron Jugulis: Iron Jugulis
:Meowscarada: Meowscarada
:Moltres Galar: Moltres Galar
:Ninetales Alola: Ninetales Alola
:Reuniclus: Reuniclus
:Ribombee: Ribombee
:Sableye-mega: Mega Sableye
:Samurott-Hisui: Samurott-Hisui
:Serperior: Serperior
:Sinistcha: Sinistcha
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Weezing Galar: Weezing Galar

C
:Abomasnow-mega: Mega Abomasnow
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Arcanine Hisui: Arcanine Hisui
:Barbaracle: Barbaracle
:Deoxys-Defense: Deoxys-Defense
:Diggersby: Diggersby
:Ditto: Ditto
:Drapion: Drapion
:Enamorus Therian: Enamorus Therian
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Glimmora: Glimmora
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads
:Jirachi: Jirachi
:Kingdra: Kingdra
:Kleavor: Kleavor
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o
:Latias: Latias
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:Marowak Alola: Marowak Alola
:Muk Alola: Muk Alola
:Necrozma: Necrozma
:Nidoking: Nidoking
:Ogerpon: Ogerpon
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Pidgeot-mega: Mega Pidgeot
:Scolipede: Scolipede
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail
:Shedinja: Shedinja
:Shuckle: Shuckle
:Swampert-mega: Mega Swampert
:Sylveon: Sylveon
:Tangrowth: Tangrowth
:Tinkaton: Tinkaton
:Arctozolt: Arctozolt

C-
:Barraskewda: Barraskewda
:Chesnaught: Chesnaught
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt
:Glastrier: Glastrier
:Indeedee: Indeedee
:Lokix: Lokix
:Metagross: Metagross
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu
:Nihilego: Nihilego
:Obstagoon: Obstagoon
:Okidogi: Okidogi
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Swampert: Swampert
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Zygarde-10:Zygarde-10
:Type-Null:Type: Null

Velcroc · Jan 17, 2025

STABMONS 2024 Post

I have been drafting an NFE and STABmons megapost since like July/August and now that 2025 has begun, I have time to reflect on ND STAB. 2024 was quite hectic with NDOTSL, Seasonal and Trios all happening in quick succession. For the most part, I'm avoiding dumping ladder teams here (with few exceptions) since a lot of those are me goofing around.

Team Dumps
Seasonal
Week 1: vs Giove97
:melmetal: :tapu-bulu: :landorus-therian: :toxapex: :celesteela: :gouging-fire:
:blaziken: :seismitoad: :aerodactyl-mega: :tapu-bulu: :gholdengo: :slowking-galar:

I had 2 tactics for Giove: load good-stuffs bulky offense and load something wild in g2 to catch him off-guard. Team 1 is a balancey team capped with offensive Gouging Fire. Pretty standard all things considered. Team 2 is basically an offense team with 4 guys that don't like Pex + Toad. Glowking rounds the team off by being an excellent pivot and ensures I don't autolose to random special attacking mon #213. Torch Song Blaziken is a cool mon that I liked piloting on ladder and Mega Aerodactyl is a good no-nonsense mon.

Week 2: vs Hidin
:darkrai: :ting-lu: :toxapex: :iron-valiant: :celesteela: :gouging-fire:
:roaring-moon: :toxapex: :landorus-therian: :melmetal: :volcarona: :medicham-mega:
:heatran: :landorus-therian: :roaring-moon: :rotom-wash: :pecharunt: :tapu-bulu:

I wanted to play a more offensive game with Hidin, while still having defensive options in reserve. Team 1 is a more offensive variant of the Ting/Pex/Cele core with every other team member piling on damage. Scarf Darkrai is slightly faster than moon which can be clutch. T2 focuses more on a Fighting + Pursuit Roaring Moon core with Volcarona for anti-bulu and anti-mmaw stuff and the rest of the team being defensive. Last team was me building a team around Nasty Plot Rotom-W since all water shuriken sweepers are nasty in this meta.

Week 4: vs TDLoriat
:tyranitar-mega: :slowking-galar: :melmetal: :tapu bulu: :rotom-wash: :great-tusk:
:zapdos: :venusaur-mega: :weavile: :heatran: :tapu fini: :landorus-therian:
:ting-lu: :raging-bolt: :tornadus-therian: :tapu fini: :scizor-mega: :landorus-therian:

I feel like a lot of this is self-explanatory. I brought more balanced/bulky offensive builds since I wanted to see how TD Loriat would approach the set. Suffice to say, TDLoriat brought some really cool teams. G1 I could have been a bit more patient with my plays, G2 and G3 TD had the lead but I managed to win by playing my butt off.

Week 6: vs Maybca
:landorus-therian: :ogerpon-cornerstone: :roaring-moon: :tapu-fini: :slowking-galar: :zamazenta:
:lopunny-mega: :toxapex: :ting-lu: :reuniclus: :gliscor: :celesteela:

Brought weirder teams this time around. I got lost in the sauce and didn't expect Maybca to bring Hydreigon and Aboma - 2 mons I loved laddering with ;(. The set was a wash unfortunately with a combo of poor MU and poor play. I could def work on the integrity of T2 tho but it'll be a challenge bc Fat is tougher to pull off here than it was on the ladder.

Week 7: vs Osake
:heliolisk: :venusaur-mega: :landorus-therian: :heatran: :urshifu-rapid-strike: :kingambit:
:aerodactyl-mega: :magnezone: :landorus-therian: :toxapex: :tapu-bulu: :melmetal:
:latios-mega: :toxapex: :iron-valiant: :weavile: :landorus-therian: :gouging-fire:

Brought wilder stuff here. Heliolisk is a cool mon I liked laddering with but Pannu stumbled on a Ghost + Lando team that made things trickier. The other two teams are normal. Brought good teams for the match-up but played G2 and G3 poorly. Seasonal was an awesome tour, but unfortunately, the run ends here.

NDOTSL
I let hidin cook for the most part, but I did play a big role in building the Mega Sceptile team. I think Adriyun went regenvest Pex > Slowking-galar in the final team and tweaked a few other sets right before the game.

:sceptile-mega: :magnezone: :landorus-therian: :slowking-galar: :melmetal: :urshifu-rapid-strike:

Me and Hidin were forced at gun-point by Adriyun to cook with this mon. I think Glimmer has a point on Megas being a lot better in STAB. Feels so much easier to justify running even unranked Megas like Sharpedo or Camerupt than in standard ND OU because of all the tools available to mons here. Case in point: This team. Mega Sceptile outspeeds Mega Lopunny, Zamazenta, and Darkrai (when that was legal), allowing it to pick them off. Rest of the team is pretty standard. Position with the fatties, trap with zone, clean with shifu rapid, etc.

Trios
I think I did a decent job with trios. It was a pleasure to play alongside Flames Of Elixir and thebestever543. Bringing a team that folded to Lando vs Kinzo was definitely an oopsie. Regardless, our team made it to semi-finals with a pretty comfortable run, so I'm proud of the run.

Act win vs veti -:scizor-mega: :tapu-fini: :slowking-galar: :roaring-moon: :landorus-therian: :thundurus-therian:
Won vs Blazing :mamoswine: :heatran: :venusaur-mega: :landorus-therian: :tapu-fini: :gouging-fire:
Lost vs Kinzo :zamazenta: :tyranitar-mega: :gholdengo: :landorus-therian: :gouging-fire: :toxapex:

Circuit Playoffs
Week 2: vs Teamo (Lost)
:zamazenta: :pecharunt: :landorus-therian: :tyranitar-mega: :latios: :tapu-bulu:
:alomomola: :landorus-therian: :raging-bolt: :Urshifu-rapid-strike: :Roaring-Moon: :Scizor-Mega:

I got outclassed this set vs Teamo. There's no way around it. G1 did come down to a roll, but G2 was a wash since my team is pretty hazards weak. I think three-tour fatigue caught up to me like it did a few months prior with NFE. In hindsight, I would run a less goofy Zama, and tweak the mons and sets in T2.

Metagame Thoughts

At this point in time, the metagame is in a pretty good position in terms of fostering a wide variety of playstyles. That being said, Stall and extreme Fat archetypes are tricky to pull off in STABmons, despite what ladder might suggest, since there are too many threats to cover reliably with just 6 defensive Pokemon. STABmons benefits offensive Pokemon far, far more than defensive ones in Gen 9; just glancing over this VR or the outdated Viability List reflects this fact. I strongly hold that Balance and Bulky Offense should focus more on speed control via Priority or Scarfers if they want to outlast offensive threats since simply sponging attacks isn't reliable. Even Stall employs mons like Latias Mega, Dondozo, Transform Chansey/Blissey, and the odd Ditto that serve to punish offensive threats (by setting up themselves or stealing boosts) rather than simply sponge hits.

Trends
:pmd/latias-mega::pmd/deoxys-speed::pmd/latios: (:pmd/latios-mega:) :pmd/gardevoir-mega: :pmd/hoopa-unbound:
Special Psychic-type attackers are in fully swing. With Z-moves, stuff like Deoxys and Hoopa-U are tricky to pin down, but for the most part they're kept in balanced by Pursuiters, Ting-Lu and Gholdengo. The fact that Slowking is a viable option over Toxapex on some teams is a testament to the influence that special attacking Psychic types have on the meta. I personally rate Psychics like the Slowbros and Scream Tail higher than most because of what they can offer.

:pmd/zamazenta: :pmd/great-tusk: :pmd/urshifu-rapid-strike: :pmd/lopunny-mega: :pmd/iron-valiant: :pmd/medicham-mega: :pmd/iron-hands: :pmd/keldeo: :pmd/gallade-mega: :pmd/sneasler: :pmd/zapdos-Galar:

ND STAB has a murder's row of threating Fighting-Type Pokemon. A testament to the impact that Fighting-types have on the tier is the contentious nature of Combat Torque, which is abused by many physical Fighting-types. However, I think that the secondary typing for a lot of these mons plays a pretty significant role as it restricts the pool of mons that can check them individually. For instance, Landorus-Therian (a common Fighting-Type check) is taken advantage of by Urshifu-Rapid Strike. Mega Venusaur, which beats Urshifu, loses to Mega Medicham. And so on. Finding consistent Fighting-type checks is made harder thanks to Pursuiters like Roaring Moon, Weavile and Hoopa-Unbound which can take care of most Psychic and Ghost-type switch-ins.

I think there is still room for the metagame to adapt in their responses to these Pokemon. Pecharunt is gaining usage recently as it can take on a lot of these Pokemon. I think Colbur Slowbro is an underrated option that can check most of these Pokemon, and even punish common Pursuiters with Body Press. In my VR, I tried to reflect this trend by increasing the ranks of Fighting-type checks. For instance, I've ranked Buzzwole, Fini, Slowbro (both base and Mega), Gliscor, Pecharunt, and Skeledirge fairly highly.

:pmd/Landorus-Therian: :pmd/Ting-Lu: :pmd/Great-Tusk: :pmd/tyranitar: :pmd/tyranitar-mega: :pmd/gliscor: :pmd/clodsire: :pmd/Steelix-Mega: :pmd/seismitoad: :pmd/Swampert-mega: :pmd/hippowdon:

Not a complex analysis here since bulky Ground-types are always common, but I would like to shout out Shore Up for bestowing so many wonderful tanks. I won't waste time talking about the elite Shore Up mons since we all know by now what Great Tusk and Gliscor do.

Clodsire is a mon I've ranked higher than most of my fellow council members. I understand it can be quite a passive mon, but I do like Clodsire longevity vs threats like Thundurus-Therian, Heatran, Iron Valiant and the odd Torch Song Blaziken. Steelix-Mega is a solid progress maker thanks to Salt Cure. Seismitoad gets a lot of hyper here but I think Swampert Mega does have a niche with its better bulk and "resistance" to Knock Off, although this sentiment isn't shared by a lot of the playerbase. Finally, Hippowdon is a kitsch mon that can levy its bulk + boosted shore up recovery to 1v1 quite a few Pokemon, though even I will admit power creep hasn't been kind to the hippo.

:pmd/gouging-fire:
Gouging Fire leaving the tier has pretty big ramifications for the metagame since now a pretty major niche has opened up for quite a few teams. Lilligant-Hisui and Darkrai were either too specific or have lacklustre alternatives. Gouging Fire, on the other hand, could fulfil many roles and it's interesting to see what Pokemon will rise to the occasion. The obvious answer is Mega Charizard X since they're functionally identical Pokemon except Mega Zard X is a lot more linear in its roles and lacks Glaive Rush. Blaziken is also a good replacement with Swords Dance sets being a frailer Gouging Fire for HO. Niche stuff like Ceruledge and DD Flyinium Mence get bumped up a spot.

:pmd/cinderace::pmd/victini: :pmd/darmanitan:
I think another consequence of a Gouging Fire ban is that offensive Fire-types can be more varied in their use. One of the things I liked about Gouging Fire is that you could slot it on a team and have it perform work. You don't necessarily need to set up to exert offensive pressure. Cinderace is a mon that I think is a little slept on, although it is being slowly recognized by the council. It doesn't gain a whole lot from STAB, aside from alternatives to Pyro Ball like Sacred Fire or the uncommon Fire Lash, but the speed tier combined with Libero make it a decent pivot. Victini is a cool shout, though you do have to be careful about Roaring Moon since it threatens pursuit. Choice Band Darmanitan gets 1 extra move here (Pyro Ball) and that makes all the difference. Same calcs are the same as Flare Blitz Darm (including 2HKOs on Pex and Lando in Sun), but now you no longer have to contend with recoil. Very fishy as a mon, but the damage you dish out is ludicrous.

:pmd/breloom:
I should have nominated this Pokemon for the VR but it feels a bit too specific to include. Like Darm, Breloom gets a few tools in STAB but they make a big splash. Technician Storm Throw is an effectively 135 BP move that ignores Reflect/Intimidate and chunks anything that isn't a Quad Resist or an immune (like Ghold). Breloom's moveset is customisable to a degree with Bulldoze hitting non-Air Balloon Ghold and Rock Tomb (or Stone Edge) hitting specific Flying-types like Moltres, Bulky Torn-T, and Zapdos. The issue is you have to sacrifice one of these moves or Mach Punch on Band and an extra move for SD sets. Then again, you could fish for rolls on offensive Ghold with Bullet Seed.

Moisture99 · Apr 29, 2025

why is terapagos banned

Velcroc · Apr 29, 2025

Moisture99 said:
why is terapagos banned

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-alt-metagames-megathread-old.3720640/post-9953326

I'll add that CM and Soft boiled/Recover makes it a lot harder to force chip damage and that Boomburst is a much stronger STAB move than Tera Starstorm into neutrals.

Velcroc · Sep 14, 2025

Okay, so I've been working on a huge mega post with trends and changes to rankings for quite some time now (since the last ladder, I believe). I started my most recent draft for this post about 2 months ago, and it's already at 2000 words. I'm pretty sure when this is all said and done, this post will be around the 2500-3000-word area. I've decided to split this post into 2: one post covering metagame trends with the recent NDAMPL and a summary for the year in STAB post Darkrai / Gouging Fire / Lilligant-Hisui bans. A lot of the trends I'm touching on could end up being momentary, but with how pretty much anything can occupy a niche that isn't already taken, I don't see the downsides in discussing it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 1: Tournament Stuff
Touching on usage connected to NDAMPL in this section. Landorus-Therian being numero uno is no surprise, but Pex usage plummeted at #10. I think the main reason was competition with Rotom-Wash (who landed at #2), as Rotom-W is a solid Landorus-Therian check and a pretty annoying Pokémon to comfortably switch into thanks to coverage and status moves. Gholdengo followed in third thanks to its ability to run a myriad of sets, and it's a pretty good all-around Pokémon with a nifty typing. Bulu sits at #4 thanks to its strong priority. Ting-Lu, Celesteela, Roaring-Moon, and Lopunny round off the rest of the top 10 as usual. Latios returns to the forefront, landing itself at #7. Other than that, we see a rise in Fairy-type usage, and a drastic decline in Great-Tusk, Tyranitar and Weavile usage. Medicham only has one use early in the season, which also surprised me, as did the relatively low Thundurus-Therian, Maero and Cornerpon usage.
One thing the tour illustrated was that people were hesitant to explore options. The top 5 most used mons had greater usage than the bottom 50%, accounting for 1 in 3 of all mons brought. While people experimented, they did so using familiar structures and cores. This led to some mons being overlooked, while others were completely neglected.

The 0 Use Club

:deoxys-speed: :diancie-mega: :gliscor: :latias-mega: :greninja: :iron-hands: :palafin-hero: :pecharunt: :skarmory: :skeledirge: :gardevoir-mega: :zapdos-galar:
Given the nature of NDAMPL, I don't expect all the S to B+ mons to get usage, and I will be discussing some of these guys later on, but for now, I would like to touch on a few key mons.

:diancie-mega:
Super surprised this didn't get used since it's a fairly counter-teamy OU mon. I think this tour people wanted sturdier fairy-types like Weezing-G or Scream-Tail since they were kinda anxious about all the Fighting-types, and Roaring Moons running around. I would say there's an opportunity cost for running Megas, but Diancie is a pretty good mega to run despite this. I think people were just cautious of slotting a Rock-type not named Aerodactyl with all the Bulus running around.

:gardevoir-mega: :deoxys-speed: :latias-mega:
The psychic-type rejects. Mega Gardevoir is a pretty solid mon and has very little in terms of hard counters since your last slot typically shreds the counterplay that does exist. However, like Diancie-Mega, people may have been hesitant to run a Fairy-type that is lacking defensively. Additionally, there's a ton of wall-breaking megas available in the tier, so you're not wanting for the power. Deoxys-Speed is a weird mon imo since I think it's just okay, but others rate it pretty highly. Sure, it has good speed control, but it needs set-up and a well-timed Z-move to really get going. So seeing its non-usage confirmed my hunches. Nevertheless, I am surprised there wasn't a single dude who didn't at least bring lead or something. I will be discussing Latias-mega in Part 2.

:zapdos-galar:
Pretty solid mon. Shame it has to compete with every Fighting-type for a slot on teams. Urshifu, Zamazenta, Mega Loppuny and even the niche Fighting-types like Iron Hands all fulfil traits that Zapdos-Galar can't replicate. Pads does screw lando like nothing else, but you better pray you KO because you ain't living that Beak Blast. I'm not surprised people were a bit skittish about using it.

:pecharunt:
A victim of "let's have my Fighting-type check NOT be weak to Dark". Pecharunt is a cool, multifaceted Pokémon, but if you aren't interested in the specific traits it has (i.e. trapping, pivoting and coil), it is a pretty hard sell. Pecharunt can still play around Dark-types, but being forced to play around some of the strongest mons in the metagame is always a liability.

Part 2: Viability Shifts and Broader Metagame Thoughts
Some of these thoughts have been brewing for a while; others are a response to NDAMPL. Without further ado:

:pmd/Rotom-Wash: ---> A+.
Really splashable. Defensive is everywhere this tour, and both Scarf and Nasty Plot are nice lures. Checks a lot of Pokémon thanks to Strength Sap. It has also been seeing more use as a Torch Song / Freeze Dry user since that move beats most of its standard checks like Ferro, Hydrapple and Sesmitoad, although that set does struggle to fit all the coverage it wants.

:pmd/Aerodactyl-mega: --> A or A+.
Mega Aero is growing on me a lot recently. The one downside is that because you gain a boost from contact moves, stuff like Lando, Celesteela or Corviknight can exploit that with Beak Blast. Other than that, it offers pretty consistent speed control and is very challenging to wall. Base Aerodactyl is a solid mon in its own right here, but I rarely even consider it in builder because of how spammable Mega Aero is.

:pmd/Thundurus-Therian: --> A or A+.
Premier offensive threat of the metagame. Has a lot of tools that can help break down its checks, like Grass Knot, Fight-Z or even Taunt. Standard Nasty Plot is the only set I run since I'm not too fond of the pivoting set. Low-key Broken, but stuff like Scarf Lando Stone Edge, Ting-Lu and Scarf Roaring Moon keep it at bay somewhat.

:pmd/Latias-Mega: -> A-.
Mega Latias feels a lot more challenging to run in the midst of the Ting-Lu / Roaring Moon metagame. Also, you're burning a slot for a Mega that is a slow-burning Pokémon, unlike Lopunny or Aerodactyl. To me, it seems on par with something like Mega Charizard Y. I don't feel like nomming it down any further, though, since it does keep strong threats like Thundurus-Therian and Mega Medicham at bay offensively thanks to its typing.

:pmd/Gliscor: --> B+
Feels more of a B+ or even a B mon. The utility it brings is nice, but the metagame is far too offensive for this mon to find a foothold in the metagame. Something like Landorus-therian or even Rotom-W can fulfil the niche much better. After building a few teams with it, I think it could function as a decent spdf ground compression guy, letting you beat Raging-Bolt and Heatran without having to commit to Ting-Lu. Swords Dance Facade could also be nice with either Precipice Blades or Thousand Waves. Not discounting it completely since you do sit on a few more stuff with the SpDf set, and SD sets can be a nice lure, but this mon has been leaving me desiring more.

:pmd/altaria-mega: --> B or B+.
It still has a crippling weakness to Pex, but the niche it provides is solid. Unblockable spin and a nifty defensive-type that helps vs Raging Bolt, Roaring Moon and Urshifu. I have updated my views on this mon with the rise of utility Mega Altaria in NDAMPL. Utility sets can get away without Fire or Ground coverage on the strength of yellow magic alone. Velvet was the biggest spammer of this mon, but I have seen others bring it as well. Dragon Dance has kinda always been lame, but it is still a potent threat if it catches you unawares.

:pmd/weezing: (pretend this is galar) --> B- or B.
Got pretty good usage during the tour, and Neutralising Gas and Levitate are both solid abilities for the mon. You also check a lot of physically heavy offence teams with Wisp. Decent removal option too, but you do like having an open slot (Magical Torque/STAB + Moonlight + Wisp mandatory imo). Matches up fairly well with stuff like Bulu, Scarf Lando, Gapdos, Tusk, Zama, and certain Ival sets. If you run Helmet, you check Lando and Urshifu too.

:pmd/Sylveon: --> B-.
I dig this over Clefable ngl, though I'll hedge my bets here. It was brought in NDAMPL twice, but I've seen Sylveon on the ladder as well. Pixilate Rapid Spin and Glare are solid utility options, and Boomburst is pretty decent mono coverage. I've seen Altaria-Mega do similar things as well via Velvet's builds. There is strong competition for the Fairy-type slot since it allows you to knuckle down on Zamazenta alongside (or even instead of) defensive Landorus-Therian, but Sylveon's main advantage is its special bulk combined with it not being a mega (unlike Mega Altaria). Offensive sets are also quite effective, as they 2HKO Pex and Slowking-Galar. The only thing really holding back Calm Mind is that you can pressure it fairly reliably offensively since you're caught between making it powerful-but-frailer or tanky-but-slow. Specs is also a nice option if you can handle Pex coming in and out.

:pmd/palafin: -> B or B-.
I was considering dropping both Palafin and Greninja. However, I think Greninja seems like it is a step above the mons in B, like Blaziken and Hoopa-U. Palafin was mid even when Damp Rock was legal, as there were other scarier Water-types. Bulk Up feels like such a momentum drop into stuff like Tapu Fini or even something like Lando. I think this could drop even further, but I will wait before making this nomination again.

:pmd/skeledirge: -> B or B-.
Skeledirge had potential when we were all rushing to find Zamazenta answers ASAP, but we're no longer at such a rush. However, it struggled to break usage in various tournaments. I also haven't had much success with it on the ladder, thanks to its passivity and slow-burning nature. The metagame has evolved without Skeledirge making a dent.

:pmd/Tornadus-Therian: -> B.
Tornadus-Therian has like 5 different niches it can fill, and all of them (aside from Nasty Plot) are mid. This also rose in popularity due to the push for Fighting-type checks, and I feel comfortable dropping this mon on the merit of most of its sets being mediocre. However, Nasty Plot x Z-move combo might be enough to keep this mon in B+ if I ever revisit this ranking.

:pmd/Iron-treads: --> C+ or B-.
Pretty big rise, but I think it is warranted. Iron Treads has a really strong niche here as a check to Thundurus-Therian (and to some extent, Zapdos). This is the majority of its niche. However, that alone doesn't make me rate it so highly. Rhyperior is a Pokémon that I have been interested in trying out for the same reason, and one that I have seen others have success with in SV STAB, but I am not ranking it for now. Treads leverages 2 things, which I think give it an edge here. Iron Treads leverages its niche to do many things, like set up hazards, pivot, knock, or spin. It can't do all of these at once, but you're able to make a reasonable set with the combination of Knock, Spin/Rocks/Spikes, Volt Switch and Shore Up. What makes Treads stand out, however, is its ability to run Icium-Z and Precipice Blades, which allow it to threaten a wide range of Pokemon and turn the tables on Lando-T. You don't quite beat Ting-Lu, so I might have to bump it down to C+.

:pmd/breloom: --> C+
Strong attacker with Technician Storm Throw plus enough coverage to circumvent usual answers. Storm Throw x Technician gives it a perma-crit move that has ~135 base power without factoring in STAB. This is enough to 2HKO offensive Landorus-Therian and Iron Valiant. Pretty impressive feat, all things considered. I have a few replays with this dude putting in work, but I feel like my reasoning here is pretty self-explanatory, given and even in C+ it sticks out like a sore thumb. Main drawbacks are that it is weak to Beak Blast, very slow and has a noticeable 4MSS.

:pmd/Kleavor: :pmd/scolipede: --> C+
Webs is gimmicky, and it doesn't slow down everything thanks to boots, but these two pull it off well enough to warrant a bump. Kleavor condenses Rocks and Webs into a single niche, while Scolipede is faster and can run stuff like Endeavour or Spikes. Kleavor is spammed a lot on ladder for ladder reasons, but I think it has a legitimate niche in the tier and is customisable in what it can do with its remaining slots (Beak Blast, Accelerock, Coverage, SD, Silk Trap). Plus, I think its usage on ladder has solid reasons since Webs does cleave through a lot of clutter you find on ladder.

:pmd/Ribombee: --> C or even UR'd.
Simultaneously, I feel less confident in using Ribombee as a web setter compared to the above 2.

:pmd/houndoom-mega: --> C-
Barely makes it in. I think it's a funky alternative to utility Darkrai with its Parting Shot sets, although it severely dislikes Ting-Lu, TTar and Pex. Thankfully, you can punish them with Wisp or Super Fang. Not the best mon in the world, but I think it makes a case for itself as a fast special-attacking Dark-type. I tried this with Mabsol, and it just misses the mark with a mediocre special attacking stat (for a Mega), and it has extreme 4MSS with its physical sets. Not many bright prospects for Darkrai replacements outside of Gren or even Deo-S if you just want a faster plotter.

:pmd/audino: :pmd/audino-mega: --> C?
Not sure if I can rank it when it hasn't done much in the games it has appeared in. Also, not sure whether I should rank the base form or the mega. I'm going to go with Mega since the ability to blank Dragons and gain a dark resistance can be pretty valuable even if you have to sacrifice Regen for it. What non-mega does make up for is that you don't really have to commit to it. I've seen people say that regular Audino >>> mega, but I don't really think the difference matters as much since they're basically the same mon. I wouldn't run Audino without the Mega Stone thanks to the Knock absorption.

Misc Thoughts that I don't feel like ranking:
:pmd/Mamoswine:
I've been on this bandwagon for a while. Mamoswine does struggle with rolls if it isn't Z or LO (and both of those have drawbacks), but it performed really well as an anti-meta wallbreaker since it punished a lot of defensive cores like Lando/Pex. I was planning on ranking this guy eons ago, but then Rotom-W saw a rise in usage, and that pretty much put the kibosh on that. Mamoswine also really doesn't like how offensive everything has gotten.

:pmd/pelipper: :pmd/ampharos-mega: :pmd/Barraskewda:
I know quite a few people on the ladder are seeing success with Mega Ampharos rain. Rain atm is a fast-paced HO archetype relying on combo-ing fast, swift swimmers, strong Water-types and Electric-type offence with Ampharos-Mega, Duraludon, and Thundurus-Therian. So far, it has been absent in tournament play since it is a pretty fishy archetype, but I have seen firsthand how effective it can be. Ampharos-Mega was one of the mons I didn't really expect to have a niche in the tier, so seeing it being used is definitely interesting, to say the least. I will hold off ranking it since I feel less confident about it than I do about something like Audino / Audino-Mega, which at least has an interesting niche of Rapid Spin + Glare + Regen (the last bit giving it a leg up over Clefable). I'm not sure where I would rank it, but I think you could make a case for C.

:pmd/meowscarada: :pmd/heliolisk: :pmd/samurott-hisui:
These mons are basically "I have success with them on ladder or friendlies" crew. They straddle the line between C+ and B-, but I can definitely see why others would rate them lower. Meowscarada gains the fewest tools of the three, but it is crazy fast and has useful coverage as a scarfer into common offensive mons, plus resists common priority moves. Heliolisk is crazy powerful and has very few and very specific counters to it, but it's extremely difficult to fit it on a team. Samurott-Hisui is basically a Scarf Roaring Moon side-grade for teams that don't want to run it, for whatever reason.

:pmd/clodsire:
More confident that this should rise. Clodsire really likes both abilities since they screw different mons. Water Absorb guts Urshifu, Keldeo, Rotom-W and messes with Pex. Simultaneously, Unaware is probably the best counter for Thundurus-Therian in the game and checks Raging Bolt on top of that. It is a tad difficult to fit, but recently I've been inspired by SV STABmons builds - mainly Kinetic's stuff. While the metagame is much smaller there, Clodsire serves a similar function imo. Close to mandatory on stall imo (or at least competing with Whirlwind Lu) and it's nifty for balance.

:pmd/beedrill-mega:
Surprisingly good. If I had to rank it, I would put it in the same tier as Lokix. While it does struggle with fitting all the moves it wants and is walled by any Steel bird, Landorus-Therian, Mega Scizor and even Gliscor, Mega Beedrill has been a fun mon to ladder with. There is a possibility that I'm just that guy, but I do find value in BeeZone in the metagame, given how badly Zone dents or eliminates much of what gives Beedrill trouble in the first place. First Impression is a nifty tool and lets it stand out more, but it also appreciates moves like Gunk Shot and Noxious Torque as well. Those low defences and pitiful HP do hurt it when everybody is clicking priority, so I cannot in good conscience say this is much better than something like Mega Pinsir or Mega Camel, despite the successes I've had with it.

:pmd/Cresselia:
Hard counters Medicham-Mega, annoys quite a few other physical attackers, and with a set like Ice Beam / Lumina / Twave, you have enough outs into a lot of common metagame threats. Even Dark-types like Roaring Moon or Kingambit don't appreciate status. Take Heart and Cosmic Power are two other cool ideas, but those tend to be a drag when facing teams with Moon, Gambit, TTar or Ting-Lu. I would put Cresselia somewhere in the C-ranks, but I'm not sure where, and this mon does need a lot of testing.

:pmd/incineroar:
Amstan put me on this joint, and it's crazy what this cat does, man. I don't think it's good per se, but it's such a crazy fish with AV, defensive boots and even the occasional SD Set (which can troll Pex/Lu teams on ladder or in a Bo1). Incineroar has enough tools to be ranked, but it's kinda spread thin with its moveslots, and you hate the fact that you don't have any reliable means of staying healthy, aside from Wish Alomomola. Neat mon, but, again, needs quite a bit of testing

:pmd/steelix-mega:
Post script: Shoutout Flames Of Elixir for reminding me of this guy. Not a rise since it's a B-calibre mon, but I like how this mon can fulfil a wide variety of niches be it a spiker, a trapper, defensive pivot or occasional curse sweeper. The issue is that it doesn't do all of these roles the best, but it is a sturdy Pokemon that has okay match-ups into several common threats.

Part 3: Survey and Conclusions

That covers everything I have in part 1 of this post. I will be taking a look at long-term trends for ND STAB somewhere at the end of the year, after all tour games and circuit play-offs have been completed. If you have taken the time to read all of this, thank you. If you skimmed or glossed over it, great job! Regardless, I would recommend that you complete the survey listed in the title of this section if you feel anything requires attention from the council, or to give your thoughts on how the metagame is run. I read every single response.

That will be all, see you next time.

Amstan · Oct 15, 2025

hi im dumping my builder + short thoughts

builder paste

ndampl:
w1: :charizard-mega-y: :hatterene: :rotom-wash: :great-tusk: :melmetal: :roaring-moon:
team is fine but i lowkey forgot to switch out of my pokemons during the battle
w3: :urshifu-rapid-strike: :weezing-galar: :hydrapple: :ting-lu: :latios: :celesteela:
team giga loses to thundy-t but good into most matchups. urshifu is something that BoingK put me on and gweezing helps punish toxapex. everything else is kinda standard balance stuff but there is a hydrapple instead of a pex.
w5/POs :camerupt-mega: :fezandipiti: :tapu-fini: :ferrothorn: :landorus-therian: :zarude:
innovated too much. zarude was smth to give a somewhat playable mu into rotom-w but i never clicked pursuit cuz im a little scaredy cat. camerupt is a really cool mon and steel roller ferro gets rid of shit misty terrain. fez ev spread lives 2 band bulu flower tricks from full.

seasonal:
r2 vs masztt: :beedrill-mega: :rotom-wash: :ferrothorn: :incineroar: :alomomola: :tornadus-therian:
:diancie-mega: :toxapex: :hydrapple: :tornadus-therian: :landorus-therian: :gholdengo:
i forgot to add a ground onto the first team and only realized mid game. experimented with torn this round and it did not feel good to use

r4 vs tttech: :urshifu-rapid-strike: :weezing-galar: :hydrapple: :ting-lu: :latios: :celesteela:
:moltres-galar: :raging-bolt: :scream-tail: :pecharunt: :landorus-therian: :ferrothorn:
:terrakion: :mandibuzz: :gengar: :clefable: :steelix-mega: :hydrapple:

not sure what i was thinking for the moltres-galar set since it does nothing. i wrote this after writing the things below but this is like the only clefable game where it takes less then 50% from a move

thoughts

:thundurus-therian:
It didn't get loaded as much in NDAMPL as it should have, but it is so threatening to any team without a fast dragon or a bolt. thunderclap allows it to beat faster mons and oblivion wing makes it so that you can't just toss a ting-lu or a bulky pokemon at it. i feel like i might just be coping a little bit but people should definitely start looking at this thing more.

:greninja: :skeledirge:
water shuriken and torch song are honestly really dumb to play against, especially rotom-wash. with torch song it beats most grasses and allows it to boost and water shuriken lets it kill anything faster. torch song is probably the most broken out of the 2 with much better abusers such as heatran and volcarona and doesn't force you to give up the item slot.

:hydrapple:
feels so good to use. checks too many things with the av set and also isn't passive. it is almost like an alternative glue to melmetal that can fit on more balancier teams. idk how its ranked lower then slowking-g and tornadus-t.

:gardevoir-mega: :clefable:
2 massive frauds. mgardevoir just feels like worse latios and doesn't feel good into anything other then fat. clefable has horrible 4mss and feels like it takes way too much from everything. i agree with what velcroc said with sylveon being better then this

:tapu-fini:
this mon is so bad it literally does nothing except make building so much harder. especially in game, it doesn't really do much and just feels like fodder after clicking flip turn one or two times

:fezandipiti:
feels better to use then clefable and fini honestly, it can beat most special attackers 1v1 with spirit break and toxic chain luck. if needed, it also survives 2 band bulu flower tricks from full and it can click uturn which is extremely annoying to play around with toxic chain. i think it definitely has a niche but it unfortunately competes with weezing and pex for slots

:iron-valiant:
kinda digging into the fairy types but this mon honestly does not really put up the numbers it feels like it should? basically every team has a poison and it basically just thuds into every single one of them. its definitely not bad but it honestly feels like it needs way too much help to function.

SomeIrish · Nov 23, 2025

Amstan said:
Speed Tiers
Greetings! The objective of this post is to lay out a visual list of all relevant speed tiers in the National Dex STABmons metagame. If you have any recommendations, please do not hesitate to post. However, do not suggest speed creeping.

Tier Zero

[ ∞ > x ≥ 500 ]

Speed Sprite Pokemon Base Nature IVs EVs ±
604 :excadrill: Excadrill 88 Positive 31 252 +1
574 :blaziken: Blaziken 80 Positived 31 252 +2
524 :Polteageist: Polteageist 70 Posotive 31 252 +2

There are a few mistakes I spotted here, a couple typos and drill's speed stage is supposed to be +2

Metagame National Dex STABmons

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

grr

grr

grr

grr

grr

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

Attachments

Thanks bros

"You DID punch him in the face, right?"

"You DID punch him in the face, right?"

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

Attachments

Thanks bros

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

If your heart is wavering, do not rfn

grr