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NOC Tracker Jailer Follower - Game Thread - Night 4!
- Thread starter AngryPidgeon
- Start date
- Status
Celever's blitz on the thread specifically feels like a desperately self-aware attempt to try and take a townie down with him. I'm treating phoopes's post spree as NAI, I think it could easily be distancing rather than a T/S fight
a) Des is the slot that, as scum, you would want to get late into the game in order to be able to bus her more effectively
b) The vote was tied anyways, so I could have easily gone with you and phoopes onto a pulsar vote and washed my hands of any responsibility later on wrt des
Why would I retaliate against des in any world by killing her off D1? Again, this is just grasping at any little straw here. I also take gambits that I think are likely to lead to a better position, not to sabotage a scumteam I'm on.
I'd also like to see more content from phoopes, independent of Celever. I do like the setup posting from him, but at this moment I'm leaning more towards this back-and-forth being a distancing attempt rather than an actual push.
##Vote: Celever
Bussing des day 1, when there is barely any information, is honestly silly:
a) Des is the slot that, as scum, you would want to get late into the game in order to be able to bus her more effectively
b) The vote was tied anyways, so I could have easily gone with you and phoopes onto a pulsar vote and washed my hands of any responsibility later on wrt des
This argument falls apart when you realize we're talking about des here and not some other player.
This is also just blatantly false. If you read my actual posting, you'd know that I was scumreading Celever for voting the AFK player (pulsar) rather than the actual people he scumread.
while I'm here wtf was this silent vote from genisu all about?
That's your prerogative. From my POV, I look at the 2 wagons and see that two of my biggest scumreads are voting on one, while there is another viable wagon on des. I also think pulsar has more potential to do better than des, so I place my vote. You are extrapolating this from nothing here
let me get to this post too after debunking the pre-flipping argument. I play NOC assuming everyone knows the mechanics (not the interactions, necessarily, just the setup and rules), especially in a simple game like this. I'm not going to be saying "this vote is to break a tie" because I assume everyone knew that tying = no vote here. Sue me.
Why would I retaliate against des in any world by killing her off D1? Again, this is just grasping at any little straw here. I also take gambits that I think are likely to lead to a better position, not to sabotage a scumteam I'm on.
I'd also like to see more content from phoopes, independent of Celever. I do like the setup posting from him, but at this moment I'm leaning more towards this back-and-forth being a distancing attempt rather than an actual push.
##Vote: Celever
ok cool so dbd
cool ok so we're thunderdoming. that's fine. good to start the post as you mean to go on
??? why would phoopes even be involved he asked like 2 questions to me. it wasn't even a fight. you and jalmont (my theory scum pair from D1) have both crafted this narrative already so that looks worse for you lol
......what's the logic here, how is a late game bus better than an early game bus? des was gonna post content for you to more effectively use to send her over? there's no practical difference besides late game buses being harder to execute because you've already previously read the slot and you have to U-Turn on it if you're trying to carry des to lategame. and it's des so you would have little reason to U-Turn if you were previously townreading her.
I legit don't understand your logic here whether it's fake logic or not
ok and that's not actually a point. You could have done that, or you could have bussed your partner for towncred. My argument is you bussed your partner for towncred.
weird narrative, I literally quoted and directly responded to the post you're referring to (this one I imagine:)
here's my response:
"two of my biggest scumreads"? homie the first time you've said phoopes' name is THIS post. like the one you just made that I'm quoting. you didn't even say phoopes' name yesterday.
if phoopes was/is one of your biggest scumreads you have to say it. Otherwise it just looks like you're pulling out any justifications you can think of after the fact to look less scummy.
"you are extrapolating this from nothing" when you apparently don't post your scumreads in-thread and then say "oh but it's bc I actually hard scumread this guy" that's the only option anyone has
I'm looking forward to you ctually doing this. Why were you posting like you already knew how the flip was gonna turn out?
You've played on Smogon before. You know that most of us don't read the OP, and when we do we don't remember what's in it lmao
You don't need to say "this vote is to break a tie" but in order to contribute to town, when you're online close to EoD where the wagons are tied or almost tied, I would absolutely expect you to say "btw a tie is a no vote this game so we need to make sure we don't tie the wagons". Y'know, just to be a helpful member of the town, especially if the tie mechanics were front of mind for you. You didn't, so I have to assume they weren't front of mind for you.
Maybe you did know the tie mechanics, I'm not questioning that. But to pretend after the fact that the tie mechanics are WHY you acted in the way you did, when nothing you posted at the time even remotely hinted to it playing a role, especially when you provided alternative justifications at the time (which are dodgy and that's why I'm voting you but you still provided them). Yeah this stinks, it's just not what happened. Either you're scum, or you're town lying about why you did it after the fact because phoopes' theory sounded better than what you were actually thinking at the time. And if you're the latter, lying about it is just digging a hole that makes you scummier long term.
It's extremely convenient that phoopes "happened" to be right about why you acted in the way you did despite nothing in-thread pointing to that being why you behaved in that way.
Yeah that could have played a role in why it happened or it could not have. That's speculation, you can call it grasping at straws, but it's a counter-argument to "he would never act in this way" because it's a reason why you might have acted in that way. That's how arguments work x3
You don't think it's likely that voting out des D1 would lead to a better position? Why not? I think usually it would.
[/QUOTE]
cool ok so we're thunderdoming. that's fine. good to start the post as you mean to go on
[/QUOTE]
??? why would phoopes even be involved he asked like 2 questions to me. it wasn't even a fight. you and jalmont (my theory scum pair from D1) have both crafted this narrative already so that looks worse for you lol
[/QUOTE]
......what's the logic here, how is a late game bus better than an early game bus? des was gonna post content for you to more effectively use to send her over? there's no practical difference besides late game buses being harder to execute because you've already previously read the slot and you have to U-Turn on it if you're trying to carry des to lategame. and it's des so you would have little reason to U-Turn if you were previously townreading her.
I legit don't understand your logic here whether it's fake logic or not
[/QUOTE]
ok and that's not actually a point. You could have done that, or you could have bussed your partner for towncred. My argument is you bussed your partner for towncred.
[/QUOTE]
weird narrative, I literally quoted and directly responded to the post you're referring to (this one I imagine:)
if you're town it's not beneficial to create false narratives even if you scumread someone. because then you get called out for creating a false narrative and look scummy.
here's my response:
This is what you need to respond to, I'd recommend doing that instead of pretending I haven't talked about it. While you're at it please also respond to this, which you still haven't despite it happening yesterday and being prodded to multiple times:
[/QUOTE]
"two of my biggest scumreads"? homie the first time you've said phoopes' name is THIS post. like the one you just made that I'm quoting. you didn't even say phoopes' name yesterday.
if phoopes was/is one of your biggest scumreads you have to say it. Otherwise it just looks like you're pulling out any justifications you can think of after the fact to look less scummy.
"you are extrapolating this from nothing" when you apparently don't post your scumreads in-thread and then say "oh but it's bc I actually hard scumread this guy" that's the only option anyone has
[/QUOTE]
I'm looking forward to you ctually doing this. Why were you posting like you already knew how the flip was gonna turn out?
[/QUOTE]
You've played on Smogon before. You know that most of us don't read the OP, and when we do we don't remember what's in it lmao
You don't need to say "this vote is to break a tie" but in order to contribute to town, when you're online close to EoD where the wagons are tied or almost tied, I would absolutely expect you to say "btw a tie is a no vote this game so we need to make sure we don't tie the wagons". Y'know, just to be a helpful member of the town, especially if the tie mechanics were front of mind for you. You didn't, so I have to assume they weren't front of mind for you.
Maybe you did know the tie mechanics, I'm not questioning that. But to pretend after the fact that the tie mechanics are WHY you acted in the way you did, when nothing you posted at the time even remotely hinted to it playing a role, especially when you provided alternative justifications at the time (which are dodgy and that's why I'm voting you but you still provided them). Yeah this stinks, it's just not what happened. Either you're scum, or you're town lying about why you did it after the fact because phoopes' theory sounded better than what you were actually thinking at the time. And if you're the latter, lying about it is just digging a hole that makes you scummier long term.
It's extremely convenient that phoopes "happened" to be right about why you acted in the way you did despite nothing in-thread pointing to that being why you behaved in that way.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah that could have played a role in why it happened or it could not have. That's speculation, you can call it grasping at straws, but it's a counter-argument to "he would never act in this way" because it's a reason why you might have acted in that way. That's how arguments work x3
[/QUOTE]
You don't think it's likely that voting out des D1 would lead to a better position? Why not? I think usually it would.
Sure, develop this theory. Why does it look like a distancing attempt to you? Case me brother
what lol
btw the fact DBD now claims to have had 2 non-des players as "2 of his biggest scumreads" in THAT threadstate yesterday makes his des vote make even less sense
also Dead by Daylight please towncase Miyami, based on your posts yesterday you have to townread her so I'm looking forward to learning why
also Dead by Daylight please towncase Miyami, based on your posts yesterday you have to townread her so I'm looking forward to learning why
also damn I worked really hard on this post and no one really acknowledged it I'm sad :(
Maybe this information was obvious to all of you but I thought it was helpful!
Vote Count 2.1
https://countingdownto.com/?c=6801048
Dead by Daylight (1): Celever
Celever (1): Dead by Daylight
Not voting (9): genisu, Shypebble, AirC, Peum, Miyami~~~, phoopes, pulsar512b, ImaginaryNeon, jalmont
https://countingdownto.com/?c=6801048
Dead by Daylight (1): Celever
Celever (1): Dead by Daylight
Not voting (9): genisu, Shypebble, AirC, Peum, Miyami~~~, phoopes, pulsar512b, ImaginaryNeon, jalmont
(it's a really useful post I just didn't have anything to say besides like "good post king")
good post king
let's thunderdome then, formatting is messed up so i'll just bold your statements
??? why would phoopes even be involved he asked like 2 questions to me. it wasn't even a fight. you and jalmont (my theory scum pair from D1) have both crafted this narrative already so that looks worse for you lol
not sure what definition of "fight" you are using considering you two came up with diametrically opposite explanations of what happened last vote, and phoopes presented his explanation as well so I consider him to be involved, i don't care if you want to pair me with jalmont because of this
......what's the logic here, how is a late game bus better than an early game bus? des was gonna post content for you to more effectively use to send her over? there's no practical difference besides late game buses being harder to execute because you've already previously read the slot and you have to U-Turn on it if you're trying to carry des to lategame. and it's des so you would have little reason to U-Turn if you were previously townreading her.
Nobody is really going to be able to townread Des with certainty, let's be real here. Late-game buses aren't difficult to execute when the player is des and most people just throw her in null territory, and it's basically agreed that des cannot be in LYLO/MYLO scenarios atp.
This is what you need to respond to, I'd recommend doing that instead of pretending I haven't talked about it. While you're at it please also respond to this, which you still haven't despite it happening yesterday and being prodded to multiple times:
Sure, I'll respond to both. For the first one, I scumread you because a) there was clear support for a vote on me, just look at genisu and des, and b) you decided to push the easiest deflection option in Pulsar. You knew that you could potentially rack up a vote on one of your biggest scumreads, and yet you chose to just...not.
"two of my biggest scumreads"? homie the first time you've said phoopes' name is THIS post. like the one you just made that I'm quoting. you didn't even say phoopes' name yesterday.
if phoopes was/is one of your biggest scumreads you have to say it. Otherwise it just looks like you're pulling out any justifications you can think of after the fact to look less scummy.
"you are extrapolating this from nothing" when you apparently don't post your scumreads in-thread and then say "oh but it's bc I actually hard scumread this guy" that's the only option anyone has
I'll admit that I probably should have told the thread that I was going to backread yesterday, but after that backread I found myself agreeing with Jalmont more about phoopes's slot in particular, namely how little he actually contributed on D1 and chose the easy lynch on Pulsar
Maybe you did know the tie mechanics, I'm not questioning that. But to pretend after the fact that the tie mechanics are WHY you acted in the way you did, when nothing you posted at the time even remotely hinted to it playing a role, especially when you provided alternative justifications at the time (which are dodgy and that's why I'm voting you but you still provided them). Yeah this stinks, it's just not what happened.
I never claimed the mechanics were why I acted in the way I did, in fact I said the exact opposite (again, that I saw two of the biggest scumreads I had on one wagon) as my primary justification and then justified why I didn't explicitly say "this vote is to break a tie". Again, you are trying to blow things out of proportion to frame me as illogical, and it's just not going to work, sadly for you
You don't think it's likely that voting out des D1 would lead to a better position? Why not? I think usually it would.
Again, des is someone who isn't really going to go far in any scenario unless she ups her posting drastically. Even if we bus her D1, the mafia just lynch the wagon and when someone doesn't die on it, they automatically gain a lot of suspicion around them for staying alive. Curious to see why you think losing a prime bussing opportunity would lead to a better position
Sure, develop this theory. Why does it look like a distancing attempt to you? Case me brother
Both of you paired on the Pulsar vote, which was one of the biggest opportunities to counterwagon flipped scum, on the same line of reasoning (eliminating AFKs is good for the game). Then, immediately after des flipped scum, you two both entered thread and took opposing viewpoints on my slot in order to try and seem like you weren't mindmelding D1.
??? why would phoopes even be involved he asked like 2 questions to me. it wasn't even a fight. you and jalmont (my theory scum pair from D1) have both crafted this narrative already so that looks worse for you lol
not sure what definition of "fight" you are using considering you two came up with diametrically opposite explanations of what happened last vote, and phoopes presented his explanation as well so I consider him to be involved, i don't care if you want to pair me with jalmont because of this
......what's the logic here, how is a late game bus better than an early game bus? des was gonna post content for you to more effectively use to send her over? there's no practical difference besides late game buses being harder to execute because you've already previously read the slot and you have to U-Turn on it if you're trying to carry des to lategame. and it's des so you would have little reason to U-Turn if you were previously townreading her.
Nobody is really going to be able to townread Des with certainty, let's be real here. Late-game buses aren't difficult to execute when the player is des and most people just throw her in null territory, and it's basically agreed that des cannot be in LYLO/MYLO scenarios atp.
This is what you need to respond to, I'd recommend doing that instead of pretending I haven't talked about it. While you're at it please also respond to this, which you still haven't despite it happening yesterday and being prodded to multiple times:
Sure, I'll respond to both. For the first one, I scumread you because a) there was clear support for a vote on me, just look at genisu and des, and b) you decided to push the easiest deflection option in Pulsar. You knew that you could potentially rack up a vote on one of your biggest scumreads, and yet you chose to just...not.
"two of my biggest scumreads"? homie the first time you've said phoopes' name is THIS post. like the one you just made that I'm quoting. you didn't even say phoopes' name yesterday.
if phoopes was/is one of your biggest scumreads you have to say it. Otherwise it just looks like you're pulling out any justifications you can think of after the fact to look less scummy.
"you are extrapolating this from nothing" when you apparently don't post your scumreads in-thread and then say "oh but it's bc I actually hard scumread this guy" that's the only option anyone has
I'll admit that I probably should have told the thread that I was going to backread yesterday, but after that backread I found myself agreeing with Jalmont more about phoopes's slot in particular, namely how little he actually contributed on D1 and chose the easy lynch on Pulsar
Maybe you did know the tie mechanics, I'm not questioning that. But to pretend after the fact that the tie mechanics are WHY you acted in the way you did, when nothing you posted at the time even remotely hinted to it playing a role, especially when you provided alternative justifications at the time (which are dodgy and that's why I'm voting you but you still provided them). Yeah this stinks, it's just not what happened.
I never claimed the mechanics were why I acted in the way I did, in fact I said the exact opposite (again, that I saw two of the biggest scumreads I had on one wagon) as my primary justification and then justified why I didn't explicitly say "this vote is to break a tie". Again, you are trying to blow things out of proportion to frame me as illogical, and it's just not going to work, sadly for you
You don't think it's likely that voting out des D1 would lead to a better position? Why not? I think usually it would.
Again, des is someone who isn't really going to go far in any scenario unless she ups her posting drastically. Even if we bus her D1, the mafia just lynch the wagon and when someone doesn't die on it, they automatically gain a lot of suspicion around them for staying alive. Curious to see why you think losing a prime bussing opportunity would lead to a better position
Sure, develop this theory. Why does it look like a distancing attempt to you? Case me brother
Both of you paired on the Pulsar vote, which was one of the biggest opportunities to counterwagon flipped scum, on the same line of reasoning (eliminating AFKs is good for the game). Then, immediately after des flipped scum, you two both entered thread and took opposing viewpoints on my slot in order to try and seem like you weren't mindmelding D1.
Miyami is a solid mafia player from the NOCs she's played, and I find it hard to believe that any good mafia player is pushing for a policy vote on their scummate D1. Considering the other person who agreed with her was Evie, who is now conftown, I find it hard to believe that she would push so hard on des earlygame and still end up voting her in a D1 bus attempt.
actually genisu where you at
you voted three different people yesterday (Neon, followed by AirC, followed by DBD). In the post before your DBD vote you said you'd be "comfortable" voting for AirC, Celever, or Neon (post #153), and then three hours later you vote DBD with no explanation (post #174) other than you'd "rather go for a slot that has potential to give actual info (post #201). So yes, I can see why you didn't vote for pulsar. But why DBD specifically? since you were apparently more comfortable voting for AirC, Celever, or Neon. I'd think you'd go for des if you were looking to hop on a wagon
I'll respond to the rest in a bit but nah
why were you townreading Miyami YESTERDAY, when your posts stated you were. This is pre-flipping again if this was your logic yesterday because we didn't know des was scum yet
please towncase Miyami in the context of D1
I didn't post much day one, but I contributed just fine IMO. I stayed consistent with behavior/thoughts from previous games (advocating for lynch>no vote, advocating against lynching des just because she's des, advocating for getting rid of inactives, advocating against early claiming), and at least tried to bump thread for more activity when we were close to deadline. I guess it was more of the same old me! Other than questioning jalmont for his initial no-vote, but that's because I never played with him before so I didn't know that that was a "thing" or whatever.
I don't think we mindmelded. Looking at what I mentioned I did and comparing to Celever, a stark difference is that Celever advocated for claiming masons/IC day one where I was against it. Celever also scumread jalmont in a possible OMGUS in post #136 whereas I did not despite jalmont scumreading both of us. In fact, based off Celever's posting it seems his "solve" if you can call it that on day one, was DBD, jalmont, pulsar (DBD and jalmont from earlier posts, pulsar from the actual vote). Whereas I felt I didn't have enough information to make a scumread list so I voted for an inactive, as I am wont to do on day one.
I do think it's kind of nuts that you think I'm paired with Celever and Celever thinks I'm paired with you though lol. As mentioned I don't think you're scum. And I'm leaning Celever town because I really don't think a scum Celever would be tunneling this hard on someone because it makes him look kind of bad.
Basically, I think the three of us are all town and the mafia is laying low trying to let us tinfoil ourselves into lynching each other. I mean hell, look at the votes already. One for each of you. They could very easily be staying back and let people pick a side in this "Celever vs. DBD" fight which is really TvT. When one of you flips town, then we lynch the other one. When you both flip town, all of a sudden we're down to a 2vs5 in Day 4 already (taking into account the two nightkills).
---
The more I typed this post the more I became convinced that you're both town. Calling for a ceasefire between the two of you (lol) so we can focus our attention on hearing more from other people (like AirC, ShyPebble, and genisu) like I mentioned earlier
tbh my biggest scumread is AirC but like I said would like to see more
thinking this because while I also defended des, AirC spent multiple posts doing so while still qualifying that they weren't defending des that much (calling the "great" game not so great)
also related my initial read on genisu was scum, but I always have that inkling and he's not acting really differently than normal, so I suspect that means genisu is town. and AirC was pushed by genisu a bit and made a little cheeky comment about genisu's pushing to possibly throw us off the scent
also also I don't like the AirC post from today so far, the "oops deadline" when it was very obvious as well as saying they'd reread then not post anything
so yeah may be a bit grasping at straws but there's very little content in the thread so that's what I got as far as my biggest scumread
thinking this because while I also defended des, AirC spent multiple posts doing so while still qualifying that they weren't defending des that much (calling the "great" game not so great)
also related my initial read on genisu was scum, but I always have that inkling and he's not acting really differently than normal, so I suspect that means genisu is town. and AirC was pushed by genisu a bit and made a little cheeky comment about genisu's pushing to possibly throw us off the scent
also also I don't like the AirC post from today so far, the "oops deadline" when it was very obvious as well as saying they'd reread then not post anything
so yeah may be a bit grasping at straws but there's very little content in the thread so that's what I got as far as my biggest scumread
The definition of fight I had in my mind was the definition of fight. Y'know, like, two people arguing with intensity with each other.
Like we argued but there was no intensity in it, there was no for lack of a better term fight from either of us I think. We just had a discussion.
It's relevant because by framing it as a fight it makes the distancing theory make more sense. Like yeah, scumbuds do fight with each other to distance. Fights are memorable, so fights are more effective distancing.
Right, and this logic is literally... why it makes more sense to bus des early. des being bussed in the lategame doesn't get anyone any credit, it's des, people will just go "oh she randomly flipped scum this time" and lolshrug under the knowledge that we all would've voted her out in like the cycle before MYLO regardless of her actions this game so it's NAI for all involved. But voting des out D1 is better because it's uncommon, and so the people on the wagon will actually get towncred for it. They did something against what usually happens on Smogon and hit scum. That's towncred.
The conversation isn't "when is it easiest to vote des out", it's "when is it best to bus des?" and the answer to the question is early.
sure, but there were like 5 posts yesterday so I didn't have a "biggest scumread". which is why I said "I don't have a big scumread we might as well just vote the afk".
you're not actually saying why the pulsar vote was bad (which it was) which is that we have loads of subs. when I voted I straight up just, didn't think of that. I just got home from being out and was drunk and high lol it was by all means not optimal gameplay to vote pulsar yesterday, I just voted someone bc I learned deadline was before I'd wake up and came up with the best option in my compromised mind
what didn't happen is anything you said here which is a lot of uh really weird stuff. didn't genisu add support to your vote after I scumread you anyway? like I was high I might not have remembered genisu scumreading you at the time but I remember not knowing it happened when I scumread you because des voted for you and I went "oh cool I'm mindmelding". That's why I quoted des' post when I talked about it....
which yes I understand that des was scum but that's what happened lol
You understand how this is more evidence for the pre-flipping argument right lol. It's bonkers to be this confident that people voting for pulsar, who had posted 0 times, are scummy for voting pulsar. because pulsar had posted 0 times.
you're speaking as if you know pulsar is town. you were speaking like that yesterday and you still are! how could you possibly think that when she never posted
"voting pulsar is just carte blanche bad" might be something I'd agree with if you'd made the "we had subs" point before I brought it up, but you've had so many responses to this situation without saying it that clearly it didn't factor into your solving. so I can't even give you brownie points for it. half of what I'm doing here is getting you to produce content that could convince me you're town, and you're swatting away all the lay ups lol.
ok so this is gonna turn circular because you're not actually rebutting the pre-flipping situation but if the logic wasn't the ties, you were pre-flipping in those posts which means you're scum. the tie stuff is phoopes' AU where you had different logic instead, but yeah you didn't have that logic so it was pre-flipping unless you can explain what logic you had that isn't related to seemingly knowing the alignments
because it's still outlandish to townread Evie and Miyami so hard on D1 (I do think Evie had a fairly towny D1 so there's an argument there! make it! You already whiffed your lay up to justify the Miyami D1 townread but please do try again) and scumread Celever and phoopes so hard D1 (apparently phoopes for not contributing? when there were like 5 posts yesterday no one contributed LOL why would it only be scummy for phoopes?????) which is where the pre-flipping perspective comes from. what you're claiming to have been your logic literally cannot be your logic.
I just want to note that I just went back and deleted all my [ /quote]s which is wild. I'm this far down the post and I didn't learn from my past mistake that's concerning. it just happened! you just need to click enter and do less brother what's going on you good Cel?
assuming you meant kill instead of lynch here, that's in no way the likeliest way this turns out lol. in scum's mind we either had a 100% chance to have protection (if we're in setup 4) or a 2/3 chance (if we're in 2 or 3) so you can extremely easily kill one or two people on the des wagon and then stop killing them, with the justification of "well they prob want to dodge protection". That's taking the world to its logical conclusion, when in reality this kind of reasoning isn't what scum actually do anyway. But for the sake of argument that they were thinking along this logic, they would conclude that it's still beneficial to bus des early.
literally what prime bussing opportunity? the prime bussing opportunity is D1. the later in the game it gets the more a des vote feels like a necessity everyone's on board with, and therefore no towncred is accrued for anyone involved. if the aim of bussing des is towncred, D1 is the best day to do it.
.................................................................the 2 of us are scum for jumping on one of the biggest opportunities to counterwagon des, when the wagon was 2 people? a bigger opportunity to counterwagon des would have been anyone with 1 or more votes. because like, if we're both scum, then we would at least be voting with 1 or more town. what do you mean mate
hell, for the sake of argument, I already scumread you in-thread which you're commenting on elsewhere. why would I not just vote for you? des did, you claimed genisu did (but I don't think he did I'm like 99% sure that happened after) but if you're right and des and genisu were both voting you then obviously scum!Celever would jump on that. it would require 0 manoeuvring because I was already scumreading you lol.
"mindmelding D1" is also a crazy exaggerated term for "voting for the same person" but like sure pop off king
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