what did i ever do to you lol
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Update: with Champions releasing on mobile it’s not looking any better for ladder
Let's pour one out for SV OU for running for a good almost 3.5 years and counting
Champions is dogwater and doesn't have 6v6 if it's causing a shortage in the high ladder it will be temporary and only occurring when the game updates once every couple months to drip feed less stuff than SV had at launch.
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What style of team are you looking to check it on? Offensive pressure in general is the most reliable, since Cress poses little immediate threat, but that's a very broad answer and probably isn't terribly helpful.
Is it Lunar Dance bringing back allies that's troubling you? The defensive Calm Mind sets? Given the complaint about teams, is it the Trick Room setter? Which version of Cress are you struggling into?
Is it Lunar Dance bringing back allies that's troubling you? The defensive Calm Mind sets? Given the complaint about teams, is it the Trick Room setter? Which version of Cress are you struggling into?
I was using the ABR balance sample team with Heatran. Putting taunt over wisp helped a little bit. But Heatran can still get chipped down fairly easily. The two main versions I struggle with are the defensive set or the Lunar blessing max HP/Max SpA set since that can chunk ting Lu pretty heavily after Tera-Fairy.
im assuming you're talking about CM cresselia & trick+encore does quite help with cresselia, usually cresselia is saved as a lategame cleaner and preserving a scarf on a gholdengo is a good way to stop cress. Taunts also good on pokemon like lando, heatran as well to prevent cress preventing it from CM'ing. You also have a bunch of steel types like kingambit, scizor, iron crown, heatran that can help prevent a cress sweep & phazing is a good option.
so i decided to try it out again and got this team to top 40. lets just do this
Darkrai @ Red Card
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 200 HP / 84 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
this guy was initially just a boots knockwisp set. but marnie did suggest to do red card and i thought itd be fun. Red card here is smth I particularly like here. pairs well with knock and with :darkrai: being naturally pretty scary with hazards up. I thought that going bulky here would also work as well and it did. you can stomach a lot more hits to be able to phase smth out, or just tank a :dragapult: shadow ball in a pinch. wisp is still good here for :ogerpon-wellspring: and :kingambit: while also crippling :zamazenta: who get greedy. The hp investment here lets me take a proto attack :great-tusk: headlong, though you can def boost the hp up to 240 just to take a offensive headlong after 3 layers of spikes. the speed is for both ada :zamazenta: and :tornadus-therian:. ghost is here for blocking rapid spin and :zamazenta: while it really annoys espeed :dragonite:. good mon for hstacks
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Spikes
Ive never actually used spikes :ogerpon-wellspring: before. found it pretty middling in comparison to my child av :samurott-hisui:. but I figured it would work here. it does decently. a lot of the time the opp is pressured enough where you can get a free spike up. didn't feel like I needed to do anything differently though. overall its still a A+ mon. tbh the only reason i had spikes was cuz im an hstack addict but it works. can def do smth like synthesis over spikes if you dont need the stacking
Dragonite @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Roost
so i was thinking of how :dragonite: really worked here and wanted to figure out a fun set for it. since I had double removal i could def afford to go bootsless and go with a different thing. i initially tried lefties but that fell through. so after like 5 seconds of thinking i just went with cloak. its still really deadly especially vs smth like :garganacl: :alomomola: and :pecharunt:. you can really muscle through a lot of things it couldve struggled with. if you think about it i couldve ran sub + lefties here to be an ass but i dont so be grateful. in hindsight you should def drop the speed here to just outspeed jolly :kingambit: but i had a brainfart and it didnt cross my mind. still worked regardless.
https://pokepast.es/b3da633f69e6844e
heres the updated team that got top 40. also new replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2633655253-n3hurlxsla51oc95s7930t0w525ku4qpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2633656455-fdlxhxjlid4dv50e6caw9m05ure92j8pw
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It'll Keep going until wind and waves probably. Though with a drop off. BSS is just not as fun as 6v6 and champs has such a limited mons pool that people who leave from 6v6 to champs will likely come back but. Who knows.
Yeah the main thing I’ve found here is saving scarf Ghold or the encore Mon. I’ve actually had it power through my heatran (without taunt) if it’s the last Mon, especially if hazards are up. Was hoping to not have to run scarf Ghold on every team though.
you don't nessesarily need ghold on every team. CM cress kinda follows the same principle as cheese sweepers like latias/manaphy etc where they are decently slow, weak to afflicted status like taunt/encore etc. A pokemon with immediate power like a choice'd pokemon can help out a lot to put pressure and there are other miscallanous ways like taunt/encore/trick that work as well. If your team can put enough pressure on cress then your MU against it will be fine. Steel type are also a good check, pretty much every solid team has one of some degree and most of them do help with cress a lot. (gambit, heatran, scizor, iron crown, scarf dengo) & dark types even with moonblast can force it to tera.
Cress should prob be one of the lower priority worries so if you have a slightly unfavorable MU into it then it should be fine but hope this clears it up.
Appreciate the response. I’ll try to make sure to have something, but def have been building to over compensate and struggling.
Funny that people are already talking about Cresselia because I was just dropping in to talk about the Max SpA CM Cress set that's been picking up in usage. CM Cress's main problem in Gen 9 has been two-fold: it's too weak (even after a boost) and it's vulnerable to chip damage/status. But in World Cup, someone--I forget who--debuted Max SpA Modest Cress with Tera Fairy Moonblast alongside Lunar Blessing and Leftovers. This set tackles Cresselia's big weaknesses that I just mentioned.
I'm not sure of the OG spread, but this is what I've been testing on ladder. It's kinda crazy how effective this is. Even with the nerfs to its defensive stats, Cress is still super bulky even with only 200 HP EVs, and its speed tier is a comfortable step above max speed Kingambit without much investment. +1 Tera Fairy Moonblast is actually really strong--for example, you cleanly 2HKO max HP Gambit, do over half to SpDef Glisc, have a chance to 2-shot Ting Lu with a Spike up, etc. And you don't have to trade your Tera for poison immunity because of Lunar Blessing.
The main problem is that you don't want to use it as a mid-game check to something like DD Nite or Offensive Zama like you could with a max def set, but the immediate fire power and cleaning ability is well-worth the trade off. And you do have to watch for strong neutral hits, because Lunar Blessing + Leftovers only heals about 33%. Getting Knocked really cuts into your longevity here, so be sure you can get some kills if you're taking a Knock.
I almost wonder if Psyshock would be better over Stored Power, just to be able to immediately chunk Slowking-Galar. Idk. Have y'all tried this set out, or seen it on ladder? How are you dealing with it?
Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Stored Power
- Lunar Blessing
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Stored Power
- Lunar Blessing
I'm not sure of the OG spread, but this is what I've been testing on ladder. It's kinda crazy how effective this is. Even with the nerfs to its defensive stats, Cress is still super bulky even with only 200 HP EVs, and its speed tier is a comfortable step above max speed Kingambit without much investment. +1 Tera Fairy Moonblast is actually really strong--for example, you cleanly 2HKO max HP Gambit, do over half to SpDef Glisc, have a chance to 2-shot Ting Lu with a Spike up, etc. And you don't have to trade your Tera for poison immunity because of Lunar Blessing.
The main problem is that you don't want to use it as a mid-game check to something like DD Nite or Offensive Zama like you could with a max def set, but the immediate fire power and cleaning ability is well-worth the trade off. And you do have to watch for strong neutral hits, because Lunar Blessing + Leftovers only heals about 33%. Getting Knocked really cuts into your longevity here, so be sure you can get some kills if you're taking a Knock.
I almost wonder if Psyshock would be better over Stored Power, just to be able to immediately chunk Slowking-Galar. Idk. Have y'all tried this set out, or seen it on ladder? How are you dealing with it?
And Nintendo will never ever maintain a healthy metagame, they hate competitive games.
Nintendo has zero control over Champions. It's Game Freak and ILCA
I still think the councils pausing rises for a whole year is stupid and it should be up to the general community to decide on that, not just tournament players
This is how tiering has always worked at the end of a generation. It's for the benefit of lower tiers. So they don't lose meta-defining threats as they transition into old-gen lower tiers.
Yeah if Gen 10 was like 6 months away but we're a whole 1.5 years away
Nobody but tournament players play lower tiers. Usage based tiering completely falls apart at this level of activity. A single person could easily cause any rise they wanted by just spamming a single team on ladder. A meaningful sample size of games is needed to determine viability.
issue is, that tiers were STILL losing staples up until freezes and it wasn't really getting any better. Frankly put, lower tiers have been in a shitstorm for a while (and this is putting it lightly) from staples constantly ripped from them. While a good amount of tiers have settled, there is still likely a good amount of drops to occur (due to suspect tests, natural shifts and tblast ban impacting tiers) so 1.5 years is just about enough time. Some of the pokemon that also would have risen were really devestating to tiers. Mesprit and Venusaur leaving ZU would have completely changed the meta (and most likely not for the better), while Garde leaving RU would take away a really good scarfer that helps a lot with cheese. Most likely others for NU that I'm missing, but the general point is still clear. Waiting another year to implement freezes would not help the stability of lower tiers in the slightest, and would just further cannabalize them. Generally speaking, most lower tier people I've talked with have liked rises freezes being implemented, ensuring there is some amount of stability for these tiers to occur.
Well, it officially dropped. You love to see it
Now please let RU have Hippowdon back
https://pokepast.es/80d6ac7a4db57c3a < Dropping this TSS team (Adv players will recognize the concept) that has been working decently for me. Should have posted it before Tar dropped, but completely forgot about it.
I oppose rises being frozen, but since more people don,t than do, can,t really argue against it. Hopefully at least Zapdos avoids dropping before the Gen ends, that is really the most successful OU Mon of all time.
I oppose rises being frozen, but since more people don,t than do, can,t really argue against it. Hopefully at least Zapdos avoids dropping before the Gen ends, that is really the most successful OU Mon of all time.
Hey guys, why did Heatran drop ? He was good, except for his 4x weakness to ground. I've used it as a special wall and it worked pretty well (I'm on low ladder so maybe that doesn't mean anything).
He could wisp Kingambit, Dragapult. Plus, ground and water weaknesses are pretty easy to overcome with Rillaboom. I suck at the game, so maybe there's something obvious I didn't see.
He could wisp Kingambit, Dragapult. Plus, ground and water weaknesses are pretty easy to overcome with Rillaboom. I suck at the game, so maybe there's something obvious I didn't see.