LOL I remember when Cresellia was Top Tier OU.
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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
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Lol, my bad. I meant Quagsire and Gastrodon specifically.
Anyway, the point was that Raikou can use any Hidden power really, he just needs team support to patch up what hidden power doesn't cover.
Yeah, Steelix is always a problem, but luckily, most people choose Registeel over Steelix since its defensive stats are more balanced. Yeah, Registeel still walls you pretty well, but at least you can use Thunderbolt on it. Plus, with HP Water, you beat Steelix and Rhyperior, but you're walled by everything else.
Raikou is walled by bulky waters without HP Grass because the most common bulky waters all have an immunity to Electric.
Erm... Milotic, Azumarill and Blastoise wish to have a word with you...
Raikou can sweep easily with HP Ice as long as you have a trapper to take care of the aforementioned steels. I've been using SubRise Magneton to great effect this metagame, he easily beats Steelix and Registeel (if you come in on the revenge or something like SR or Iron Head that is).
EDIT: And luckily the Pokemon that wall BoltBeam other than the steels (Quagsire, Gastrodon and Lanturn) aren't very common.
EDIT: And luckily the Pokemon that wall BoltBeam other than the steels (Quagsire, Gastrodon and Lanturn) aren't very common.
When using the SubCM Raikou, the HP choice is always essential. Raikou is walled by different things with different Hidden Powers.
If you have something that takes care of Water/Ground pokes for example, you can use HP Ice. If you use HP Ice and don't have anything to cover those pokes, you can have some trouble... or get sweeped by a damn DD Whiscash...
And if you use HP Grass, you're walled by the most common poke in the metagame.
With the Attacking Raikou i say use HP Water and Signal Beam. HP Water lets you hit Steelix and ground pokes while Signal Beam hits Grass pokes.
If you have something that takes care of Water/Ground pokes for example, you can use HP Ice. If you use HP Ice and don't have anything to cover those pokes, you can have some trouble... or get sweeped by a damn DD Whiscash...
And if you use HP Grass, you're walled by the most common poke in the metagame.
With the Attacking Raikou i say use HP Water and Signal Beam. HP Water lets you hit Steelix and ground pokes while Signal Beam hits Grass pokes.
3 attack Raikou I'd say is better with HP Water/ Grass and Extrasensory I think, since Extrasensory still hits Venusaur (and most other grass types aren't very common).
lol thats a good question..who will be the top lead if frosslass is banned?
I imagine people will start using Cloyster more as their means of spikes if Froslass is banned. I have also used a spikes Qwilfish to good sucess. As far as top leads go, I think Ambipom and Uxie will still be at the top.
And the funny thing is that Ambipom actually beats Froslass with Pursuit... and aslo does a good damage to Uxie with Fake Out+U-Turn.
Maybe it has something to do with Alakazam/Rhyperior leads...
I dont think there would be much change in the top leads; maybe ambi would run less taunt and uxie less trick scarf.
Cloyster and moreso omastar might rise in use but i dont think they will go to the top.
Spiritomb might fall because froslass was a large reason for it being effective.
(other than Ambi and Uxie) Alakazam could be a gainer as people look for a fast taunter. (which might help reboost spiritomb's use)
but in the end its all theory, i really dont know.
Cloyster and moreso omastar might rise in use but i dont think they will go to the top.
Spiritomb might fall because froslass was a large reason for it being effective.
(other than Ambi and Uxie) Alakazam could be a gainer as people look for a fast taunter. (which might help reboost spiritomb's use)
but in the end its all theory, i really dont know.
I think Ambipom's role as a lead has diminished because of its predictability, but it's become a very strong late game finisher, being able to come in with a powerful Fake Out, outspeed most of the meta, and have good coverage with Low Kick/Payback.
With Froslass gone, it becomes a lot easier to set up from the lead position. I definitely see more Omastar coming, as it's a great (but often overlooked) entry hazard setter, learning SR/Spikes/T-spikes.
With Froslass gone, it becomes a lot easier to set up from the lead position. I definitely see more Omastar coming, as it's a great (but often overlooked) entry hazard setter, learning SR/Spikes/T-spikes.
Actually it's quite likely that Omastar enters the top 5 or at least hold its position on the top 10 by next stage, as in spite of not being a spinblocker or taunter per say, it has access to all hazards. Added to that, more people got to use spike stacking teams with Froslass around, and that might be good for Ommy if she's gone, as she'll need a replacement.
Omastar has always been a solid choice as a Spiker, even though it has always had to compete with Roserade and Froslass. With both of them gone though, its usage will definately spike and it'll be a staple on all spike stacking and stall teams for sure. (Him and Cloyster)
Of course, that's only if we actually get enough votes on Froslass to ban it to BL, we could have been rid of it one round earlier if more people had voted...
Of course, that's only if we actually get enough votes on Froslass to ban it to BL, we could have been rid of it one round earlier if more people had voted...
This is true, but I'm sure there will be a ton more voters this round. Most people probably thought that the things they wanted banned were going to be banned anyway and so they didn't bother voting themselves, but after seeing what happened last voting test, I don't think as many people will make the same mistake.
okay so I guess here are my initial and not-very-well-formed thoughts about the suspects:
Raikou: UU???
sub CM is kinda getting overshadowed by Cresselia which is probably part of the reason I haven't really gotten much experience with it this testing round. it has trouble getting past dedicated special walls, but I don't think it's very hard for a team dedicated to removing or weakening these walls to do so... this unfortunately begs the question of whether it is Raikou that is broken (I answered "yes" in the last test though). ResTalk Roar is pretty beastly but I think here it is mostly Froslass that is broken. cm lo is also extremely dangerous, especially to offensive teams, too!
Froslass: BL
it sets up spikes easily and can spinblock. I actually like both the suicide and bulky Froslass sets depending on what other team members I have. etc not much I haven't already said or posted about in the Froslass thread.
Cresselia: BL???
leaning BL but not really sure what characteristic it would fall under. sub CM sets are okay and moonlight CM sets are okay but there aren't many Pokemon that can take on both reliably. on the purely defensive side of the debate, Cresselia can be EVed and designed to beat pretty much every offensive threat in the metagame (albeit not at the same time) which may or may not be broken but probably is...
Porygon-Z: BL
nasty plot rips through slower teams, scarf is pretty good against fast teams, and specs rips through medium speed teams. basically it hits too hard and is still bulky at the same time which makes it oh so BL...
Raikou: UU???
sub CM is kinda getting overshadowed by Cresselia which is probably part of the reason I haven't really gotten much experience with it this testing round. it has trouble getting past dedicated special walls, but I don't think it's very hard for a team dedicated to removing or weakening these walls to do so... this unfortunately begs the question of whether it is Raikou that is broken (I answered "yes" in the last test though). ResTalk Roar is pretty beastly but I think here it is mostly Froslass that is broken. cm lo is also extremely dangerous, especially to offensive teams, too!
Froslass: BL
it sets up spikes easily and can spinblock. I actually like both the suicide and bulky Froslass sets depending on what other team members I have. etc not much I haven't already said or posted about in the Froslass thread.
Cresselia: BL???
leaning BL but not really sure what characteristic it would fall under. sub CM sets are okay and moonlight CM sets are okay but there aren't many Pokemon that can take on both reliably. on the purely defensive side of the debate, Cresselia can be EVed and designed to beat pretty much every offensive threat in the metagame (albeit not at the same time) which may or may not be broken but probably is...
Porygon-Z: BL
nasty plot rips through slower teams, scarf is pretty good against fast teams, and specs rips through medium speed teams. basically it hits too hard and is still bulky at the same time which makes it oh so BL...
I think the Sub/CM set is the most broken set, and so fits under the Offensive Characteristsic.
TBH defensive sets are easily set up on/statused to death, but Sub/CM Cress is faster than a lot of the tier, can block status with Substitute and not have its subs broken by the pokes who are supposed to "wall it" and so I'll be basing my suspect paragraphs on that set.
You will have to send in individual paragraphs for each suspect if you are attempting to vote on it. Reach and Jabba use both paragraphs and SEXP to determine voting rights. SEXP is determined both by using and by playing against the suspects. If you've only acquired enough SEXP for one suspect, then if Reach/Jabba accepts your paragraph, then that's the only suspect you're voting for.
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