NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

[wavedash]

"always surviving"
You mean surviving 7/8ths of the time. (Cross Chop has HCR)

You want to get technical and shoot yourself in the foot?

Cross Chop has 80% accuracy.

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

That's not relevant to the discussion. Pokémon A being better / worse at X'ing that Pokémon B is at Y'ing is not important.

It IS important if you're saying Swampert is better, but not saying HOW it's better. My point about Gastrodon being very good is still valid because I said HOW it is good

>Irrelevant statements that are a waste of my time

>Implying you wasted your own time by yourself, because those statements where yours

>Thinking that it is always possible to set up Stealth Rock

Actually, it is possible.

But that's not the point, the point it's that running SR with leads is still viable.

|  135 | Nidoqueen  |   5342 |    0.50

Nidoqueen kind of sucks.

1+1=2

Scizor is quite weak.

Okay, let's make a team of Camerupt / Quagsire / Vaporeon / Mantine / Ludicolo / Walrein. Looks good.

lol and you talk about irrelevance and fallacies.

Okay, lemme try to piece together this logic.

You said Mantine has only Rest for recovery and that it's the same most other Water-type Pokémon used. I said Quagsire learns Recover. You then assume that I think Quagsire is the only Pokémon Water-type Pokémon in NU that has a Recovery move, even though you just mentioned Gastrodon a few sentences ago.

Whether you like it or not, Quagsire is one of the best (and by extension, most-used) bulky Waters in NU.[/quote]

hurrrr

Neither gastrodon or Quagsire are 50%+ of the total water pokemon, you can mention all the water type pokemon that learn recover/slack off/roost/wish and there will be more pokemon that can't learn neither of them, just rest.

Sometimes it's not enough to type in google "how2logic" to learn how2logic.

And yeah, Quagsire is cool as hell.

>Implying that performance against a select few Pokémon in another tier is the same as the performance in another tier

>Implying similar situations can't happen

>Implying Perish Song works very well on Politoed without any evidence

>Implying I said "very well"

Surprise value is trivial in most cases.

It's, however, a valid tactic that can fuck up someone's pokemon and win a match for you, specially when you switch a pokemon that uses special attacks for physical moves.

Offensive moves sure help. Gimmicks like Copycat, Me First, and Mimic are nice, but in the long run, it's most reliable moves that work the best.

Yeah, but Politoed's not all about gimmicks.

Encore, Haze, Hypnosis, Counter are some moves that politoed can use, are not offensive and aren't gimmicky (because you can pull strategies with them easily)

Anothers options are somewhat less used, like causing confusion or forcing switches.

Grumpig is great at countering Fire-types, but the omnipresent Skuntank tears it apart. I dunno, YMMV.

Here comes the creativity.

Using Grumpig as lure can be crucial to win a match.

In any case, it's the one of the best options you have against fire types (unless it's some kind of calm mind entei or whatever)

Anyways, another options I can think about are torkoal and solid rock camerupt.

 

[wavedash]

I'm too tired to reply to your off-topic replies, semantics, and general ignorance, so I'll just focus on the Magmortar-relevant parts.

And yeah, Quagsire is cool as hell.

I'm wondering if a Rindo Berry could work on Quagsire. Switch into anything that's not HP Grass, OHKO with Earthquake. Lack of Leftovers recovery might give it away, though.

>Implying I said "very well"

The word "imply" means you did not say "very well".

It's, however, a valid tactic that can fuck up someone's pokemon and win a match for you, specially when you switch a pokemon that uses special attacks for physical moves.

You can't depend on gimmicks. I'd rather not get into the gimmicks vs. reliable argument, since it's subjective in like fifty ways.

Yeah, but Politoed's not all about gimmicks.

Encore, Haze, Hypnosis, Counter are some moves that politoed can use, are not offensive and aren't gimmicky (because you can pull strategies with them easily)

Hypnosis is the definition of unreliable. Haze is only really useful against Nasty Plot Ninetales and Calm Mind Espeon. Counter is unreliable, since it relies on your opponent not knowing you have it, as its usefulness declines if he or she is aware. I can see it being kind of useful against Scarf Primape, but his Close Combat does 61%-72%, so there's a good chance you won't have a chance to Counter it. You do much better against Skuntank, though. Encore is great.

Here comes the creativity.

Using Grumpig as lure can be crucial to win a match.

In any case, it's the one of the best options you have against fire types (unless it's some kind of calm mind entei or whatever)

Lures aren't as reliable as standard Pokémon. Even you base a team around a lure or two, it still might not be optimal.

Also, I'm not sure what you're luring and why.

 

[shrang]

Haze can be useful as an emergency stop against something like Curse Cradily, although Perish Song is probably better.

 

[Ice-eyes]

I don't think there are better options than Encore/Toxic/Protect/Surf.

 

[Lucalibur]

we need more quick feet toxic orb SD ursaring and bulk up floatzel around here.

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

I'm too tired to reply to your off-topic replies, semantics, and general ignorance, so I'll just focus on the Magmortar-relevant parts.

laughingwhores.jpg

The word "imply" means you did not say "very well".

Exactly.

You can't depend on gimmicks. I'd rather not get into the gimmicks vs. reliable argument, since it's subjective in like fifty ways.

And I tought you said you were going to talk about Magmortar-relevant parts.

Anyways, gimmicks are not to be undertimated.

Hypnosis is the definition of unreliable. Haze is only really useful against Nasty Plot Ninetales and Calm Mind Espeon. Counter is unreliable, since it relies on your opponent not knowing you have it, as its usefulness declines if he or she is aware. I can see it being kind of useful against Scarf Primape, but his Close Combat does 61%-72%, so there's a good chance you won't have a chance to Counter it. You do much better against Skuntank, though. Encore is great.

-Hypnosis may be unreliable, but it effect it's good enough to be an option that works.
-That's exactly what haze does, huh?
-I find counter and mirror coat like very reliable moves; if the foe knows you have it it will have some fear using physical move so those 2 moves are useful even without the surprise value.

Btw, I don't know exactly what kind of horrible EVs are you using; by a quick sight I can tell it's 252 HP/0 Defense assuming adamant primeape.

Primeape's CC hurts, but it hurts almost anything since it has very high base power, STAB, good attack, it's not resisted and politoed it's not there for that. Quagsire is better for that (of course, quagsire takes a bunch from any decent special move)

Lures aren't as reliable as standard Pokémon. Even you base a team around a lure or two, it still might not be optimal.

Also, I'm not sure what you're luring and why.

Luring Skuntank to send out a counter and win... how you guys call it?

"momento"? "momentum"?

 

[Analogman]

we need more quick feet toxic orb BD ursaring and bulk up floatzel around here.

Fixed.

 

[Axa]

Belly Drum + Toxic Orb is just really short lived; even if you don't take entry hazards into account there's still Ursaring taking damage while it Drums; you likely won't take out more than one or two Pokemon before Usaring. It's also ultra vulnerable to priority.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Falling for trolls = win.

 

[Leman]

Belly Drum + Toxic Orb is just really short lived; even if you don't take entry hazards into account there's still Ursaring taking damage while it Drums; you likely won't take out more than one or two Pokemon before Usaring. It's also ultra vulnerable to priority.

Not to mention BD Charizard and Linoone kind of outclass Ursaring

 

[shrang]

I don't think Toxic Orb Ursaring even needs SD, since it hits hard as hell without one anyway. That said, he only needs 3 attacks to really function properly, so SD should probably go for last spot anyway (Other move can be Protect to make sure you get the boost).

 

[Lucalibur]

actually a jolly SD facade is capable of ohkoing anything in NU that dont resist and he got EQ, crunch, close combat and other moves thanks to his massive physical movepool. while a unboosted facade miss a good amount of koes(this all taking poison into account).

 

[M BLADE]

Hits hard with Facade, but there's some pokes that resists/are immune to (ghosts comes in mind) it, and a Jolly unboosted Crunch or Close Combat aren't that terrifying.

Belly Drum Ursaring isn't cool. It will not work most of the time, and it dies really fast.
Bulk Up Ursaring? lol, if anyone here wants to try tis out, be my guests.

Sleep Talk Ursaring? I wouuld use Kangaskhan instead (with Early Bird... wow, found a use for this ability),

 

[shrang]

Bulk Up Ursaring doesn't sound bad, since it's defenses are actually quite good. The only problem is coverage, though. He might be able to pull off a Curselax or something like that.

 

[Lucalibur]

totally depend on the strategy, i would use something like bulk up, rest, body slam and crunch with chesto berry if only to not be walled by ghosts.

 

[Leman]

Bulk Up Ursaring doesn't sound bad, since it's defenses are actually quite good. The only problem is coverage, though. He might be able to pull off a Curselax or something like that.

BU/Rest/STalk/Facade with HP Grass Skuntank?

 

[Thund91]

BU/Rest/STalk/Facade with HP Grass Skuntank?

Unfortunately Facade isn't affected by sleep condition, so you're better off using Return.

 

[wavedash]

Again with the off-topic. This is actually kind of fun.

Anyways, gimmicks are not to be undertimated.

lol. Also, gimmicks are not to be overused.

-Hypnosis may be unreliable, but it effect it's good enough to be an option that works.

Debatable. Ask Gengar.

-That's exactly what haze does, huh?

Sucks, doesn't it? Yes.

-I find counter and mirror coat like very reliable moves; if the foe knows you have it it will have some fear using physical move so those 2 moves are useful even without the surprise value.

So your opponents stop attacking you. Wow, I had no idea such a move existed!

Btw, I don't know exactly what kind of horrible EVs are you using; by a quick sight I can tell it's 252 HP/0 Defense assuming adamant primeape.

And here I thought we were countering Magmortar.

Primeape's CC hurts, but it hurts almost anything since it has very high base power, STAB, good attack, it's not resisted and politoed it's not there for that. Quagsire is better for that (of course, quagsire takes a bunch from any decent special move)

Okay.

Luring Skuntank to send out a counter and win... how you guys call it?

"momento"? "momentum"?

I'm not sure what you're luring and why.

inb4stupidreplytocopypastereply


Ursaring @ Leftovers
Quick Feet / Careful
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
Bulk Up
Return
Coverage move
Coverage move

 

[Al_Alchemist]

The problem with that is every one runs Earthquake for that reason. Flareon is also grounded (Spikes), and Stealth Rocks weak.

I gave the example for a switch-in, not exactly a counter. And I doubt anything can really switch in safely to anything with stealth rock and spikes on the ground. Also, there's not a big amount of levitating / fliers in NU, and you always could rapid spin them (though I understand that's not exactly always easy :P).

Usually Magmortar isn't going to be going around EQ'ing or Cross Chopping around the first time it's out unless it knows you have a Flareon and/or intend to switch it in, on the account of the pretty high risk factor. Magmortar isn't the speediest or bulkiest Poke around :).

So chances are Flareon could get a good switch in on Fire Blast or special attack then protect and/or switch to a Flying-Type (Gligar is a good choice) on the incoming EQ or whatever and kill it / force it out.

No self-respecting Magmortar runs Cross Chop - with no Blissey/Chansey, there's no reason to run it over Earthquake or Focus Blast.

Well I wouldn't say "no reason", Cradily, Regigigas, Regice and several other Pokemon are pretty good reasons to use it. Though I forgot how commonly they are used, but yeah I suppose EQ is probably the more commonly used move on Magmortar.

 

[shrang]

Cradily, Regigigas, Regice

Cradily is probably the only reason to run Cross Chop out of that list. Regigigas takes a stack from Focus Blast (And Probably Fire Blast anyway), and there's no point using Cross Chop against Regice when it's weak to your STAB anyway.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

Cradily is probably the only reason to run Cross Chop out of that list. Regigigas takes a stack from Focus Blast (And Probably Fire Blast anyway), and there's no point using Cross Chop against Regice when it's weak to your STAB anyway.

Yeah I take Regice and Regigigas back, Fire Blast will most of the time always do more damage to them. However, not all Magmortar's carry Focus Blast especially because of the accuracy, though granted, Cross Chop isn't exactly a Shock Wave accurate either.

But yeah Cradily is probably the main reason to run Cross Chop, but a very good reason since Cradily in Sandstorm is very dangerous in NU.

 

[Lucalibur]

are you sure now? because focus blast from modest life orb magmortar 2hko cradily(sandstorm), same results with cross chop.

 

[wavedash]

Focus Blast is probably best on a Specs set. On a Scarf or Life Orb set, Earthquake, Cross Chop, and Focus Blast are kind of equally good.

 

[M BLADE]

Well... i went to verify, and Modest Focus Blast does 44.1% - 52.1% to 252/252 Careful Cradily on Sandstorm. Full health, and Cradily does not get 2HKOed. And Focus Blast isn't what i would call reliable too.
Even worse because Sandstorm helps to worn Magmortar down.

Ehh... does anyone tried Sub Mortar once?

Sub/Fire Blast/HP Grass/Focus Blast.

I remember it being... good in UU. Since this is NU ... So... anyone finds it good?