Reversal sets haven't really worked since 3rd gen. What with all the scarfers, priority sandstorm and entry hazards that can screw over subbing, it's just way too hard to pull off.
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Haxorus
- Thread starter R.B.G.
- Start date
shandera already got a 1 month ban on Pokemon online so it shouldn't be a problem. Furthermore, switching with the choices set can be done easily. With reduction of stealth rocks, its not that common anymore. Switching can also be done on priority moves and you can run him on sun/rain teams as counters can be taken out easily. The main concern is rough skin pokes and nattorei
Reversal sets suck, simple as that. Being on such low HP in a priority and hazard filled metagame is counterintuitive, and is really only justifiable when abusing a pinch boost + berry for insane power (and even then, only Empoleon can really pull this off).
If you were to use Reversal, you would want Lucario anyway, as it is immune to TSpikes, Sandstorm (far more common than hail), and has priority in addition to STAB on its Reversal.
If you were to use Reversal, you would want Lucario anyway, as it is immune to TSpikes, Sandstorm (far more common than hail), and has priority in addition to STAB on its Reversal.
Well, specially defensive Skarm takes a clean 2HKO from a Rivalry boost and it will definitely be 2HKOed by SD no matter the set or ability. It's not a hard counter, but it's definitely something you want to weaken before going to town.
So I've been using this guy for at least a week and I just had to post my results here, even if there hasn't been a post in a while.
Let me just say that this dude is strong! Like, yeah 147 is a lot, etc, etc but the main thing that makes this guy especially strong is that he doesn't have to run Jolly (and will use Adamant to hit 432 Atk) and, actually, I've found that I don't lose anything by not running any speed on the set I use, to be honest.
Typically I ran something like:
Ononokusu @ Choice Band
Mold Breaker
Adamant, 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense
Outrage
Earthquake
Double Chop
Dragon Tail
This will either get several kills in a match or get one kill and give you a lot of momentum, let me explain how:
In addition to the 600+ base attack that a CBOno has, his main move is 120 (+60 for STAB) power attack that is only resisted by one (common) type. From my extended periods of play, most non-steel Pokemon that switched in on Ono, no matter how bulky, was pretty much instantly OHKOed / 2HKOed by Outrage. Max Defense / HP Gliscor (353 HP, 383 Def) takes 220 - 259 damage from this guy. He's almost always 2HKOed with SR, even factoring in the Protect + Poison Heal (assuming he hasn't shown his face before).
Nattorei loses about 30% of his HP and Skarm loses a similar number and Skarm will Roost off the damage while Nattorei will most likely Leech Seed you or fire off a Gyro Ball that will not really deal too much.
And anything that tries to revenge kill you will be forced to lose a lot of momentum in the process as nothing slower than Ono will attempt to stop him with a high base power move (that would be suicide, as most think he's running max speed) so they'll be forced to, say, use a LO Weavile Ice Shard which will result in the death of the Weavile as well. Faster Dragons will have to use a strong attack (Outrage, Meteor) or else they run the risk of not OHKOing, which will still give you a momentum boost. It's vulnerable to being Ditto revenged but this means that Ditto will be locked into a much weaker (and rather slow) Choice Scarf Outrage, so the momentum is still in your favor. The other moves have niche uses (Bronzong, Substitute, Scouting) but the main one is still outrage.
Anyway I've typed a lot (and am sleepy) but the point is that this guy is really a simple Pokemon but he is VERY effective at what he does and that I believe that a CB version should invest in health / defenses over speed as his speed tier ensures that he'll outspeed every wall naturally and that no Pokemon below 90 speed will attempt to stop him.
Let me just say that this dude is strong! Like, yeah 147 is a lot, etc, etc but the main thing that makes this guy especially strong is that he doesn't have to run Jolly (and will use Adamant to hit 432 Atk) and, actually, I've found that I don't lose anything by not running any speed on the set I use, to be honest.
Typically I ran something like:
Ononokusu @ Choice Band
Mold Breaker
Adamant, 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense
Outrage
Earthquake
Double Chop
Dragon Tail
This will either get several kills in a match or get one kill and give you a lot of momentum, let me explain how:
In addition to the 600+ base attack that a CBOno has, his main move is 120 (+60 for STAB) power attack that is only resisted by one (common) type. From my extended periods of play, most non-steel Pokemon that switched in on Ono, no matter how bulky, was pretty much instantly OHKOed / 2HKOed by Outrage. Max Defense / HP Gliscor (353 HP, 383 Def) takes 220 - 259 damage from this guy. He's almost always 2HKOed with SR, even factoring in the Protect + Poison Heal (assuming he hasn't shown his face before).
Nattorei loses about 30% of his HP and Skarm loses a similar number and Skarm will Roost off the damage while Nattorei will most likely Leech Seed you or fire off a Gyro Ball that will not really deal too much.
And anything that tries to revenge kill you will be forced to lose a lot of momentum in the process as nothing slower than Ono will attempt to stop him with a high base power move (that would be suicide, as most think he's running max speed) so they'll be forced to, say, use a LO Weavile Ice Shard which will result in the death of the Weavile as well. Faster Dragons will have to use a strong attack (Outrage, Meteor) or else they run the risk of not OHKOing, which will still give you a momentum boost. It's vulnerable to being Ditto revenged but this means that Ditto will be locked into a much weaker (and rather slow) Choice Scarf Outrage, so the momentum is still in your favor. The other moves have niche uses (Bronzong, Substitute, Scouting) but the main one is still outrage.
Anyway I've typed a lot (and am sleepy) but the point is that this guy is really a simple Pokemon but he is VERY effective at what he does and that I believe that a CB version should invest in health / defenses over speed as his speed tier ensures that he'll outspeed every wall naturally and that no Pokemon below 90 speed will attempt to stop him.
Why run double chop when you can do dragon claw. Dragon Claw won't miss.
Here's a set I just thought of
Leichinokusu@Leichi Berry
Moldbreaker
Nature Jolly
252Spd/252Atk/4HP
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Dragon Tail
Dragon Dance is the center of the set. Just after one I believe Ononokus outruns everything not scarfed. The more you can get in before you must attack the better.
Outrage=STAB duhh
Earthquake w/moldbreaker hits Bronzong hard (yayz) and generally gives you great coverage.
Last slot is your choice. Stone Edge is if you want to hit those rare bugs or whatever, whereas with dragon tail you can phaze out another set-up sweeper.
The Leichi berry is icing on the cake. An extra Attack boost is always welcome and can toast anything really. +3 147 Base Attack is like fighting God.
How is this relevant to anything?
This, pretty much.
To be honest, everything except Outrage on this guy is super situational. Earthquake does a bit more damage to the OU steels (meaning the ones that aren't weak to EQ [and the ones that are run balloon anyway...]). And you're still 2HKOing a Bronzong that switches in if it's under 65% or so with Outrage anyway, don't neglect that (116 min, 136 max on a max HP/ DEF Zong with 338 HP is an easy 2HKO with SR under 65%, yeah).
The other two moves are really whatever you'd like them to be. Dragon Tail is if you're a bit of a cautious player or just don't want to blow Ono too early in the match. Double Chop is really just for subseeders, focus punchers and sub BP chains. Dragon Claw really isn't necessary since the 90% of double chop means that the benefits Claw give you are marginal at best.
I sometimes ran Sunny Day instead of Double Chop on it, actually, but then I found that it really wasn't suited to "passive" roles in the metagame. Some sweepers can do that, Ono can't. Just attack, seriously.
Can somebody remind me, if you use Rivalry, and you face a genderless pokemon, does your attack drop? Or is it neutral?
Because I'm seeing very little downside in using Rivaly over Mold Breaker considering the ONLY OU pokemon weak to EQ and resistant to Dragon is Bronzong, and he isn't THAT common. Meanwhile the most common female pokemon are Blissey/Chansey and Latias. Meanwhile most people can't be bothered to change the gender of their team and you hit the vast majority of the metagame a lot harder.
Because I'm seeing very little downside in using Rivaly over Mold Breaker considering the ONLY OU pokemon weak to EQ and resistant to Dragon is Bronzong, and he isn't THAT common. Meanwhile the most common female pokemon are Blissey/Chansey and Latias. Meanwhile most people can't be bothered to change the gender of their team and you hit the vast majority of the metagame a lot harder.
If you use Rivalry and you're up against a genderless Pokemon, there's no Attack drop or increase. Personally, I'd just use Mold Breaker on Ononokus.
Well let's think. Against Latias if you use Dragon Dance, you outspeed and since LAtias isn't physically defensive, I haven't calculated, but LO +1 Outrage, even with a Rivalry drop probably kills it. Blissey would never switch into a Haxorus in the first place, but you could easily DD a few times to take care of it. Just watch out for Thunder Wave or Toxic really.
So yeah, all in all Rivalry is looking pretty damn good to me.
So yeah, all in all Rivalry is looking pretty damn good to me.
Isn't Ononokusu able to power through Skarmory?
I'm not sure, but I heard somewhere that it can. I'm probably wrong, though..
It's possible. If Ononokus picks up a DD or two (and it has Rivalry and a matching gender), Outrage can probably do a number on Skarmory.
I already make everything possible female because of the random stuff that uses attract on PO which I think I read somewhere immobilized more often than it should.
The fact that rivalry drops attack if you happen to run into the wrong gender just makes it the inferior ability compared to mold breaker.
^To be fair all of the most common moves on Blaziken (HJK, Blaze Kick, Stone Edge) have imperfect accuracy, so one item boosting all those moves is a nice benefit. Considering Haxorus is only going to be using Double Chop against subs it'd be foolish to run an accuracy item.
ATM, not nearly enough people make their gender female. So, again, ATM Rivalry Haxorus is highly viable. If it begins to catch on then yeah, just stick with Mold Breaker. But the odds of an all female team are MUCH lower than a team where the creator didn't bother.
ATM, not nearly enough people make their gender female. So, again, ATM Rivalry Haxorus is highly viable. If it begins to catch on then yeah, just stick with Mold Breaker. But the odds of an all female team are MUCH lower than a team where the creator didn't bother.
Remember that mold breaker prevents multiscale dragonite from revenging haxorus. I think it breaks through sturdy too.
It already does a number to skarmory even without the rivalry boost.
The value of hitting Bronzong, D-Nite and maybe even some sturdy users for an OHKO is much more valuable than gaining 20% extra against unprepared players, especially when you consider that you loose power against prepared players (note that prepared often means good).
And having an advantage against bad/unprepared players is often less gamebreaking than having disadvantages against good players.
However when it comes to ladder playing rivalry could be used as you more often play against full male teams. For tournament matches on the other side i would never use something other than Mold Breaker.
in the beginning of the generation i used to run the dd set but after a while i found out that the choice bander can wreak havoc with its insane strength...outrage destroys pretty much everything that doesn't resist it and opens many walls in the opponent team preparing another pokemon to proceed to a possible sweep...just look out out for those damn steels and you have a great weapon in your hands...
Breaking Sturdy and Levitate is a plus. However, Multi-Scale for Dragonite doesn't matter since a +1 Ono can potentially kill it with Outrage (so Choice Band or after Dragon Dance) with or without Multi-Scale unless it starts running defense and most Dragonites don't do that. With Rivalry and Dragon Dance/Band, Dragonite is dead and after Swords Dance, it obviously doesn't matter. With the Rivalry and Band/Dance boost, only an Impish Dragonite with at least 308 Def has a reasonable chance of suriving the Outrage WITH Multi-Scale. And Ono can be faster than it (I don't see why it shouldn't run at least 260-265 speed to outrun things like Dragonite and slower and if you get multiple Dragon Dances if doing that, you outrun Scarf 110s after 2).
The only real purpose for Mold Breaker is Levitate Brongzong and Sturdy (if there even is anything Ono could have ohkoed anyways with Sturdy that is actually used). You might be able to fake someone out into thinking you have Mold Breaker (Brongzong would never risk switching in until Ono's locked into Outrage anyways because of Mold Breaker Earthquake) and few things are female and most people don't think of genders. Sure Rivalry is kind of situational and doesn't do anything to Neutral nature pokemon but Mold Breaker also really only affects a couple pokemon as well who generally wouldn't attempt to risk it anyhow until it's locked. So really, Mold Breaker or Rivalry is valid and I tend to be leaning towards the Rivalry side. Considering Ono isn't wildly popular in the first place, Rivalry is good until it starts catching on (and if people start using females, make Ono female until people are too confused on whether to run Male or Female and just take Ono out the old fashioned way).
^the moment you switch in Ono your opponent will know if you have Mold breaker or not since Mold Breaker has an entry message.
Well i think i already said this twice but to make my opinion clear Rivalry has its uses if your laddering since you often will encounter Test Teams and players that just don't know about this kind of things, but when you got a higher ladder rank and start encountering more serious players or if you play in a tournament switch to Mold Breaker as its the more reliable Ability and has no possible draw backs.
Oh and Mold Breaker also negates Rough Skin/Iron Barbs recoild wich is nice against Nattorei.
Well i think i already said this twice but to make my opinion clear Rivalry has its uses if your laddering since you often will encounter Test Teams and players that just don't know about this kind of things, but when you got a higher ladder rank and start encountering more serious players or if you play in a tournament switch to Mold Breaker as its the more reliable Ability and has no possible draw backs.
Oh and Mold Breaker also negates Rough Skin/Iron Barbs recoild wich is nice against Nattorei.