BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]

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the special nimbasa trades are done post-E4 iirc

and Magnemite is just meh-ish around Nimbasa/Driftveil, once you pass that area he won't be that bad (*cough*SKYLA*cough*)
 
He's still 100% usable for the rest of the game. He does have that lull where he just does horribly against Driftveil, and he can still be decent against Elesa if you have nothing else.

After my first run:

Magnemite: TOP FUCKING TIER. He means that you can faceroll all but one part of the game, and that's Driftveil Gym. Shows up really early, gets Sonicboom in ONE level meaning it can faceroll the second and third gyms. Will probably evolve just before Chargestone Cave, and can be evolved to Magnezone literally 5 minutes later.

Typing is great, and the evolution is a choice between trading in for speed and getting a ton of SpA, or not evolving and retaining some speed speed. Gotta choose between 120 / 70 SpA / Spe, or 130 / 60. His only drawback is his middling speed and his somewhat "eh" movepool, but that's why you're pairing him up with anti-Ground and anti-Fighting.

Riolu: Mid tier. He performed well, but not well enough. He's a baller in competitive matches, but his movepool is somewhat lacking. (Force Palm? Rock Tomb? Bone Rush? Really?) He's amazing once he evolves as his Steel typing is awesome, but until then he just sucks otherwise. If he got Close Combat earlier he'd be almost top tier just because of that. Still, Swords Dance at lv 37 means he can fix his middling attack stat, so he'd be higher if his movepool and TM availabilty was better. Also, evolving him is awkward. Black players have it better as they can grab a Heracross just before the 4th gym, which is so much better (or is it after? No clue if you need the badge to use Strength outside battle to get there.)

Lilligant: High tier. Terrible coverage, but made up ENTIRELY by Sleep Powder and Butterfly Dance, which is bonkers. Evolve at level 26 so you can grab Butterfly Dance at 27, and never look back. Amount of annoying Flying-types hurts it though. Black players will need to do an in-game trade for it, so catch a Cottonnee in the park area in Castelia, go to Route 4, trade with the lady in one of the houses.

Tepig: Mid tier. He never really shines. He becomes a tank, but ingame prefers speedy creatures. That said, he's got a behemoth HP and Atk stat. Perhaps holding off on evolution might be a good idea just to get Head Smash early.

Zorua: High tier. Obtained in the mid-game, but is given to you so he gets an experience bonus. Movepool isn't shabby, and hits like a truck, but is kind of frail.

And on another note, Snivy for bottom tier. He is so godawful. I'd rather take Meganium than him.
 
Zoroark was a big surprise to me. I've just boxed mine for Mamoswine at lv47 with a moveset of U-Turn / Night Slash / Foul Play / Dig. It used Dig only as a Zorua against Driftveil Gym, and I could count in my left hand the number of times it used U-Turn. Its STABs, on the other hand... Foul Play was a GIGANTIC surprise and was a great help against Opelucid Gym (lol 120+ Atk everywhere), while Night Slash would always CH at the right time. Illusion never helped me much, but I have the feeling I'm going to miss it now that I have a Mamo instead.


But I guess Zoroark is high-tier for everyone already, so we don't need to discuss it anymore ?__?
 
Zoroark is phenomenal because it grows at the speed of light. Literally. It only takes him like 4-5 battles for him to get out of any underlevelled rut he might be in.
 
Ok so formulating my challenge mode team.

Magnemite is in
Azumarill is in
Roserade and chicinno are in
On the ropes about heracross (Due to weakness sharing)
On ropes about darmatian, but hes prolly in

My dilema is who to use untill i get the BAWS that is magnemite. Azurill is the only thign avail that early and riouly prolly wont b having force palm+ would prolly get wreked by pidove.


On tier discussion - Vaporeon - mid to mMid is good, with her new level up moves can have water pulse + aurorua bean at like 21. plus sewer lefties.


EDIT: was going to try out Brivary as well
 
Nonary Game said:
Riolu: Mid tier. He performed well, but not well enough. He's a baller in competitive matches, but his movepool is somewhat lacking. (Force Palm? Rock Tomb? Bone Rush? Really?) He's amazing once he evolves as his Steel typing is awesome, but until then he just sucks otherwise. If he got Close Combat earlier he'd be almost top tier just because of that. Still, Swords Dance at lv 37 means he can fix his middling attack stat, so he'd be higher if his movepool and TM availabilty was better. Also, evolving him is awkward. Black players have it better as they can grab a Heracross just before the 4th gym, which is so much better (or is it after? No clue if you need the badge to use Strength outside battle to get there.)
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I can't really agree with any of this. Granted, I'm only at the 5th gym, but I can certainly comment on some points.

-Why does Magnemite get a free pass on his moveset, while Riolu doesn't? Force Palm is a far, far better move than Thundershock (1.5x BP, 30% paralysis chance), and Mirror Shot really hasn't been all that useful due to steel being a meh offensive type and having 85% accuracy. Not to mention, Lucario gets Dark Pulse via the move relearner, while Magnezone gets nothing.

-He sucks beforehand? Counter spam is a legitimate strategy up until he gets Force Palm since enemy Pokemon only use physical attacks up until I believe Magby/Elekid in Virbank Complex. Then you have Force Palm, which outclasses pretty much every STAB out there until guys like Drilbur/Sandile get Dig.

-Middling attack stat? Since when is 110 Atk/115 SpA middling?

-Evolving him really isn't awkward at all. He starts with higher happiness than normal. I think just about everyone has got him to evolve naturally around Castelia in the Lvl 20-22 range

Again, I'm only at the 5th gym, but Magnemite has only outclassed him from the 2nd gym to the sewers before Riolu evolved. I see Lucario as the better Pokemon atm.
 
Lemme add something to the Lucario discussion:

Why is everone complaining about his movepool?!
Force Plam / RETURN / Dig and Quick Attack killed everything.
Then it got Swords Dance. And Psychic. And Shadow Ball. And Aura Sphere.

This Pokemon hasn't let me down at all, I honestly think he's more than just "mid".
 
The main issue I really have with Luke is that he gets Close Combat/Aura Sphere late. Like, really late. Force Palm just isn't that epic as it goes and Lucario ends up getting by on account of his base stats alone (130 SpA for the record beats 110 Atk/115 SpA, hell even Magneton has better Special Attack if you're going there). Magnezone also has way superior bulk to Lucario and a much better defensive typing.

I feel Zone > Luke, and its really only from the part where you beat Burgh up until you get to Chargestone Cave that Luke wins out. So uh... Lucario wins 1/4 of the game, Magnezone wins 3/4. Pretty clear who is better.

Mid Tier for Lucario seems dumb though, it should really be high at least.
 
TM13IceBeam said:
The main issue I really have with Luke is that he gets Close Combat/Aura Sphere late. Like, really late. Force Palm just isn't that epic as it goes and Lucario ends up getting by on account of his base stats alone (130 SpA for the record beats 110 Atk/115 SpA, hell even Magneton has better Special Attack if you're going there). Magnezone also has way superior bulk to Lucario and a much better defensive typing.

I feel Zone > Luke, and its really only from the part where you beat Burgh up until you get to Chargestone Cave that Luke wins out. So uh... Lucario wins 1/4 of the game, Magnezone wins 3/4. Pretty clear who is better.

Mid Tier for Lucario seems dumb though, it should really be high at least.
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I actually just got to Chargestone, and I see what you mean now that I have a Magnezone. Just read that Electro Ball is guaranteed at least 60 BP, so I guess that's why it's OHKOing everything.

Also, I know Magnezone's offensive stats>Lucario's, I just found it weird that he called them "middling". They aren't.

We'll see how things go for the rest of the game. Mid tier for Lucario makes zero sense, but maybe high will end up being a good place for it.

On another note, Eevee as a Vaporeon does well with Surf/Aurora Beam, but I'm still not sure if it'll be worth the 12ish levels it was stuck as an Eevee for. This is a Pokemon I could see being in mid.
 
I'm not sure if any of the Eeveelutions are even -worth- it. Their movepool is ok at best. Espeon is probably the best out of them because it gets Psybeam at 21, which runs off its better offense stat (unlike wtfthunderfangjolteon) and I swear, Vaporeon would be great if Eevee actually came 1 level lower (no seriously, it comes at LV18 and Vaporeon gets Water Pulse at LV17, this is bullshit)

I bet GameFreak must have gained a grudge against Vaporeon or something. You need a Heart Scale to relearn Water Pulse, and Scald TM got pushed all the way to Marlon.

Also what's the point of BP Eeveelution...? It seems that everyone is using Baton Pass as an argument for Eevee but I don't really see the point. That said, I haven't used an Eeveelution before, so I might be treading on hot air here.
 
TM13IceBeam said:
I'm not sure if any of the Eeveelutions are even -worth- it. Their movepool is ok at best. Espeon is probably the best out of them because it gets Psybeam at 21, which runs off its better offense stat (unlike wtfthunderfangjolteon) and I swear, Vaporeon would be great if Eevee actually came 1 level lower (no seriously, it comes at LV18 and Vaporeon gets Water Pulse at LV17, this is bullshit)

I bet GameFreak must have gained a grudge against Vaporeon or something. You need a Heart Scale to relearn Water Pulse, and Scald TM got pushed all the way to Marlon.

Also what's the point of BP Eeveelution...? It seems that everyone is using Baton Pass as an argument for Eevee but I don't really see the point. That said, I haven't used an Eeveelution before, so I might be treading on hot air here.
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Actually its movepool isn't a big issue. The first Water Stone doesn't come until after you get Surf, so that solves its water STAB issue right there. I also used the move relearner to teach it Aurora Beam.

Its main issue has been the first Water Stone coming so late. Eevee is frail and pretty meh offensively so its pretty annoying to use.
 
Actually water stones come as early as you get Eevee. You just have to be very lucky to get the right stone for it in dust clouds.
 
rocky505 said:
Actually water stones come as early as you get Eevee. You just have to be very lucky to get the right stone for it in dust clouds.
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I'm... not sure if this is true. I can't find a single cave where there are Stones and not Shards before the point you get Eevee.

EDIT: Ok, that's fine with me (if not a bit optimistic).
 
I'm pretty sure it was an Eviolite. If he's still there, that would be epic for Magneton though :D
 
Eviolite guy is still in the same spot as he is in BW1. Evolutionary stone dude is gone though, possibly since you don't get free monkeys anymore.
 
TM13IceBeam said:
Vaporeon is available as early as post-Clay...
They are 3 BP apiece at PWT.
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Um...Surf is post-Clay. Available like...ten minutes after you beat him.

By the time you get 3 BP in the PWT, you could have met Cheren in Route 6 and gotten Surf.

I also don't know if I like the idea of crossing your fingers for a stone in Relic Path. If we're not considering Hidden Hollows, we shouldn't be considering items with a minuscule chance of appearing either.

Ditto for PWT. If we're penalizing Pokemon that require grinding or have a exceptionally low encounter rate, we're going to have to penalize Pokemon for requiring similar time investments (PWT, stone farming, etc).
 
The Battle Subway still gives out 3 BP for winning in any line, right? Couldn't you just enter and get 7 straight battles, using poor enemy AI and unevolved Pokemon to just grab the 3 you need and get the Water Stone? The one where you team up with KyouMei should be easy enough since they bring Pokemon better than yours.
 
IncantareFox said:
The Battle Subway still gives out 3 BP for winning in any line, right? Couldn't you just enter and get 7 straight battles, using poor enemy AI and unevolved Pokemon to just grab the 3 you need and get the Water Stone? The one where you team up with KyouMei should be easy enough since they bring Pokemon better than yours.
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Well again, Surf is available right after Clay anyways. I also still don't see how using the Battle Subway is different than grinding. Just because you're not grinding for exp, doesn't mean you're not grinding. How many Audinos can you grind with Super Repels and the Lucky Egg in the time it takes to win seven battles? Are we going to start giving Pokemon who start off weak a free pass too, since Audino grinding will bring them up to snuff? It's a slippery slope that I think we should avoid altogether.
 
Firstly, even if you get Surf who are you going to teach it too? Eevee can't use Surf so I don't get your point about Surf being also post-Clay.

Also AFAIK you need to do 1 PWT to progress anyway so it's not that bad to just go back in and do a couple more (6 battles, faster than the 7 for subway).
 
TM13IceBeam said:
Firstly, even if you get Surf who are you going to teach it too? Eevee can't use Surf so I don't get your point about Surf being also post-Clay.

Also AFAIK you need to do 1 PWT to progress anyway so it's not that bad to just go back in and do a couple more (6 battles, faster than the 7 for subway).
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Why are you intentionally being so myopic? You catch something that can learn it obviously. Audino can learn it, and you'll certainly run into your fair share of them. Audino also has a 255 catch rate, they're a joke to catch. It takes 20-30 extra seconds of a battle you'll be in multiple times to throw a Great Ball and skip the naming process.

Again, you could just as easily say "it's not that bad to Audino grind for five minutes". Grinding is grinding. Spin it anyway you like, you can't deny it's a repetitive action designed to give one Pokemon an advantage.
 
I just don't think that 6-7 battles to get a Vaporeon necessarily constitutes grinding. It's really not much more different than saying "This Pokemon is bad, but after it gains a few levels it evolves into a beast that owns the rest of the game". It's arguably less of an issue because you're not battling for x levels, you're just completing 7 or less fights.

It's more a detour or sidequest than grinding for something, really.
 
IncantareFox said:
I just don't think that 6-7 battles to get a Vaporeon necessarily constitutes grinding. It's really not much more different than saying "This Pokemon is bad, but after it gains a few levels it evolves into a beast that owns the rest of the game". It's arguably less of an issue because you're not battling for x levels, you're just completing 7 or less fights.

It's more a detour or sidequest than grinding for something, really.
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We should see what Stellar says. In my eyes it's grinding, and I worked with Colonel M on a number of tier lists (he wrote a fair chunk of material on ingame tier lists on the main site). However, it should be up to Stellar in the end.

Although using Surf to get a Water Stone is faster anyways, so w/e.
 
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