Pokémon Hawlucha

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alexwolf said:
Well a 2HKO isn't much when you are OHKOed back (in the case of Skarmory). His typing and Speed are awesome, but his power and bulk really lets it down. Not to mention that Aegislash will be a gigantic pain in the ass. I think it will be a solid UU Pokemon with some very situational uses in OU.
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The only attack that Skarm has that is capable of landing an OHKO is Brave Bird, and not only is it an ureliable OHKO, it would be mutually destructive, since after eating a +2 Hi Jump Kick in the face, Skarm would be looking at killing itself via recoil. That's assuming that the Skarm doesn't get a low roll, killing itself via recoil whilst leaving Hawlucha still alive.
 
Has someone bred it with a Pokemon that has Brave Bird yet?

This is my own set that I enjoy.

Hawlucha @ Life Orb
Trait: Limber/Mold Breaker
Jolly Nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~ Hone Claws
~ High Jump Kick
~ Bounce
~ U-Turn/Encore
 
Meh, v disappointed tbh with the Atk/Def; like I am with practically all the KalosMons (MegaEvos non-including of course!)

Were in the MegaGame now; Offensive stats of even around Base 100 aren't going to MegaScizor it imo.

But this beautiful Poke having barely above 90; appalling, lol. Why do GameFreak have to get every1 to pander towards silly boosting items like Bands and Orbs with annoying base 95s?


TrollFreak(tm) strikes again, SpanishHawk stylee, HIYAAA!! :mad:
 
I have confirmed from breeding that Hawlucha cannot learn Close Combat or Superpower as egg moves. Unless it can be gained through leveling up, Hi Jump Kick is the go to move.
 
Hmmm, I can see this definitely being a threatening glass cannon sweeper in UU, but I think its frailty, lack of notable Priority resistances and reliance on setting up SD (and reliance on Flying Gem to do any meaningful primary STAB damage) will keep it from the tier of the big boys. Oh, and Aegislash, perhaps the most notable OU-level Pokemon of the new generation, completely walls it and gets to setup on it for free... not good for the Hawlucha user.

As an analogy of sorts, you guys remember Alakazam before it got Magic Guard? It had a worse typing, sure, but it had perfect coverage, considerably more power (though on the special side), slightly higher speed and similar pitiful bulk. Still shot down all the way to RU simply because of frailty and inability to fend off priority users.
 
This guy is really cool, IMO. I'm testing a SubRoost Acro/Unburden set and it's been working pretty solidly. Being lightning fast and having powerful dual STABs with awesome coverage (hits nearly everything aside from Aegislash) is wonderful. This guy, though, can also run BU or SD sets well, meaning it can do more than simply clean up or provide momentum.

Choice Band (maybe even Scarf to revenge anything offensive) makes him really threatening and he has a great movepool for it (as long as it gets some more decent fling STAB), with cool coverage and U-Turn. 110 base speed, even without unburden, makes this guy instantly pretty good by putting him above Terrakion, Keldeo, and base 100s; tying the Latis, etc. so it can get by pretty well.

I could even imagine something like Natural Gift+Berry to beat Skarm and Aegi before cleaning up the rest of the team, once a meta is established. And don't forget that Limber is a really good ability for non-Gem sets, as you can crap on a whole bunch of walls like Ferro or Celebi that would use it.

This guy's stats, moves, abilities, and typing make it an extremely versatile and competitive pokemon, and I think it'll be at least low OU (and could probably see ban in UU).

Plus, who wouldn't sh** their pants if a luchador swooped down on them from the sky and dropped them on their face?
 
Heroes and Cons said:
Hmmm, I can see this definitely being a threatening glass cannon sweeper in UU, but I think its frailty, lack of notable Priority resistances and reliance on setting up SD (and reliance on Flying Gem to do any meaningful primary STAB damage) will keep it from the tier of the big boys. Oh, and Aegislash, perhaps the most notable OU-level Pokemon of the new generation, completely walls it and gets to setup on it for free... not good for the Hawlucha user.

As an analogy of sorts, you guys remember Alakazam before it got Magic Guard? It had a worse typing, sure, but it had perfect coverage, considerably more power (though on the special side), slightly higher speed and similar pitiful bulk. Still shot down all the way to RU simply because of frailty and inability to fend off priority users.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Hawlucha at UU, thanks primarily to the noted presence of Aegislash, but I don't really feel that the Alakazam comparison is that apt. For one thing, Alakazam's 55/45/85 defenses are considerably worse than Hawlucha's 70/80/70 defenses. This is especially true because all of the notable priority users are physical attackers, and because Hawlucha, unlike 'Zam, isn't prone to being trapped and killed by pursuit users.

Second, whilst Alakazam had and has far superior offensive stats, the difference is mitigated by Hawlucha's access to superior (both in type and in power) STAB attacks. Alakazam worked with Psychic (90 BP, 135 with STAB) and Psyshock (80 BP, 120 with STAB), with its next strongest move being Focus Blast (120 BP). Hawlucha has Acrobatics (110 BP, 165 with STAB) and Hi Jump Kick (130 BP, 195 after STAB). Even if you don't factor in the superior coverage that those two moves have in the established metagame, that's a considerable difference in power, and it goes quite a ways to compensating for Hawlucha's lackluster offensive stats.

Third, Alakazam's typing coupled with its poor defenses meant that it had very scarce opportunities to switch in, and had to be played as a revenge killer. As a psychic type, 'Zam's only notable resistance was to fighting attacks, many of which were so beefed up that they could 2HKO if not OHKO it anyway. Hawlucha's defensive typing isn't great by any means, but it does provide him with useful dark, fighting and grass resistances, and an immunity to ground attacks. When coupled with more passably decent defensive stats, he actually has the ability to switch in on certain OU pokemon if the player predicts well. As mentioned before, it's also a lot harder to revenge kill, since it has decent defense and a natural resistance to pursuit - something Alakazam really struggled with.

I'm not saying Hawlucha is definitely OU material, but that it simply isn't the kind of Pokemon Alakazam was - in any real, meaningful way.
 
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TheEvergreenChameleon said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see Hawlucha at UU, thanks primarily to the noted presence of Aegislash, but I don't really feel that the Alakazam comparison is that apt. For one thing, Alakazam's 55/45/85 defenses are considerably worse than Hawlucha's 70/80/70 defenses, especially when you consider that all the notable priority users are physical attackers. Second, whilst Alakazam had and has far superior offensive stats, the difference is mitigated by Hawlucha's access to superior (both in type and in power) STAB attacks (Acrobatics is by far its only 'meaningful primary STAB damage' when you also have Hi Jump Kick) and the fact that it has access to better setup moves. Third, Alakazam's typing coupled with its poor defenses meant that it had very scarce opportunities to switch in, and had to be played as a revenge killer. Hawlucha's defensive typing isn't great by any means, but when coupled with more passably decent defensive stats, actually gains the ability to make a few crucial switches. It also isn't prone to being killed in return by pursuit users, as Alakazam was.

I'm not saying Hawlucha is definitely OU material, but that it simply isn't the kind of Pokemon Alakazam was - in any real, meaningful way.
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Alakazam's defenses are 55/45/95, but I see what you're saying. However, I think a big problem will be that Hawlucha has just a lack of power to punch through stuff.
 
raddaya said:
Alakazam's defenses are 55/45/95, but I see what you're saying. However, I think a big problem will be that Hawlucha has just a lack of power to punch through stuff.
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Unless I'm reading it wrong, Smogon and Serebii list Alakazam's HP as 55, defense as 45, and special def as 85. Agree to an extent regarding the difficulty Hawlucha is likely to face, but I think a lot of people are underrating its offensive capabilities. Having 130 and 110 dual STAB goes a long way to making up for 95 attack.
 
TheEvergreenChameleon said:
Unless I'm reading it wrong, Smogon and Serebii list Alakazam's HP as 55, defense as 45, and special def as 85. Agree to an extent regarding the difficulty Hawlucha is likely to face, but I think a lot of people are underrating its offensive capabilities. Having 130 and 110 dual STAB goes a long way to making up for 95 attack.
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Alakazam's Special Defense stat changed this gen, almost certainly to 95. As for Hawlucha: However, High Jump Kick isn't very reliable, which is a pain.
 
ok so I bred it and leveled it up to 38. These are perfect IVs for only Speed and Attack. Also for EV investment 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe Jolly nature level 38

112 HP
110 Atk
64 Def
55 SpA
55 SpD
141 Spe
 
raddaya said:
Alakazam's Special Defense stat changed this gen, almost certainly to 95. As for Hawlucha: However, High Jump Kick isn't very reliable, which is a pain.
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Ahh, I wasn't aware. The discussion was centering around Alakazam's position in RU last generation, though, so the point still stands.

As for High Jump Kick, 90% isn't exactly unreliable. Granted, the recoil is a pain in the butt, but that's never stopped people running it on the likes of Blaziken.
 
Im using him currently as a lead. Running Adamant. So far just standard Acrobatics/HJC/Encore/power up punch. He is decently strong, but I think he would be more fun as a momentum changer.
I really hope he learns fake out somewhere

I haven't found any Gems yet, But since i'm using him as a scout, I'm interested in running this set:

Hawlucha: @ power herb
Ability: limber/unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Sky Attack (just for kicks for high crit/flinch chance)
- HJC
- Encore

On a side note, he makes a great HM slave. learning FLY,CUT, Strength and Rock smash
 
I've finally accepted that Hawlucha is a niche Pokémon that will now rival Crobat for his position as a stallbreaker/scout. A scout set would look a little like this

Hawlucha @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
~ High Jump Kick
~ Roost/Bounce
~ Taunt
~ U-Turn

His convenient base 117 speed allows him to outspeed common base 115 threats in the UU tier. He isn't weak to stealth rocks which is a plus and in addition to stealth rocks getting a damage nerf. Mold Breaker negates Magic Bounce Xatu which is nice and even Solid Rock Rhyperior. I wouldn't write off this human-like bird just yet!
 
I've been using a core of Staraptor+Talonflame+Hawlucha. Gotta say, its pretty impressive. You can just lure out the flying resists with raptor (who can still dent them with Brave Bird/CC), and sweep with one of the other two. my hawlucha set is -

Lucha Flying Gem
252 Atk/252 Spe Adamant
Unburden
- SD
- Acrobatics
- HJK
- Encore
Encore is usually to create setup opportunities. SD helps with Lucha's average-at-best Attack stat, but you still wont need it all the time due to the power and coverage of its STABs.

I'm really hoping 'Raptor,TFlame and Lucha end up in UU, I'm gonna spam the hell out of these three :D
 
Hawlucha is confirmed to get Baton Pass, which gives it some much needed utility. Instead of focusing solely on its own sweep, which is very difficult to do with its unimpressive Attack stat, it can Baton Pass the SD boost to the appropriate Pokemon whenever it faces a Pokemon that walls or checks it. Its great Speed helps a lot on Baton Passing before taking a hit. Mega Absol pairs nicely with Baton Pass Hawlucha, as it blocks Hippowdon's Whirlwind, can switch into Ghost moves from Aegislash and threaten it back with Dark STAB moves, and can beat Skarmory too with Fire Blast (however Skarmory will try to use Brave Bird most of the time, which hits Absol hard). Mega Mawile with Fire Punch is a good receiver as well, as it can easily switch into Aegislash and threaten it with Fire Punch (watch out for King's shield, but it has to watch out for Swords Dance)and Skarmory if it uses Brave Bird and then OHKO it with +2 Fire Punch.
 
92 Atk stat is decentish, but he has Umburden and Swords Dance, and acrobatics, so it could be a cool lategame sweeper, EVEN in OU

EDIT: Ohh, man, archeology aids...
Let's Fling a Fossil! :trollface:
 
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alexwolf said:
Hawlucha is confirmed to get Baton Pass, which gives it some much needed utility. Instead of focusing solely on its own sweep, which is very difficult to do with its unimpressive Attack stat, it can Baton Pass the SD boost to the appropriate Pokemon whenever it faces a Pokemon that walls or checks it. Its great Speed helps a lot on Baton Passing before taking a hit. Mega Absol pairs nicely with Baton Pass Hawlucha, as it blocks Hippowdon's Whirlwind, can switch into Ghost moves from Aegislash and threaten it back with Dark STAB moves, and can beat Skarmory too with Fire Blast (however Skarmory will try to use Brave Bird most of the time, which hits Absol hard). Mega Mawile with Fire Punch is a good receiver as well, as it can easily switch into Aegislash and threaten it with Fire Punch (watch out for King's shield, but it has to watch out for Swords Dance)and Skarmory if it uses Brave Bird and then OHKO it with +2 Fire Punch.
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Neither Skarm nor Hippowdon can in any way be considered to wall Hawlucha, since either one gets 2HKOed after a swords dance (even without fighting/ flying gems). IMO, that only adds to Hawlucha's utility as a BPer, since it really doesn't need to worry about being phazed. It can function as a BPer in the early game and a sweeper in the late game pretty much interchangeably with the same set.
 
I think that we may just be going about this Pokemon in the wrong way, though his typing screams offensive, he definitely has a lot of utility (Roost, Taunt, Bulk Up, U-turn, Encore, and I'm sure it gets more). I think we should wait until it's move list is available, I honestly believe this pokemon has a little more to show for than we think. But I could always be wrong, and its end up being a jack-of-all trades master of none, and let's not forget its typing makes it immune to most entry hazards while only taking neutral damage from Stealth Rock! (Sticky Web)

EDIT: What a terrible move list.....hopefully the move tutor will fix this.....
 
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I usually run 252hp and 252atk. You really don't need speed investment if you're bulky enough to take a hit since with unburden active, you outspeed pretty much everything. I run a SD / acro / HJK / Roost set with Flying gem, but I've also seen some fun Fighting gem Power Up Punch using ones.

Roost can be substituted for Encore, and the two alone can let it take down Aegislash one on one with some good prediction.
 
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